/lit/ - Literature

Did F Gardner come from /wg/, /x/, or /pol/? I’m unclear. Someone please explain

>>20479719
F. Gardner is from /fit/ actually, a true God amongst us.

>>20479719
F. Garner comes from the Seething Lands of Pseud, where the grass is cringe and the girls are waifu.

Have you guys heard about Gardner’s 12th book? I heard it discusses and solves the meaning of life, but his arch readers are too loyal to betray him and send leaks.

Idiot OP...you missed a bunch of stuff...

Previous thread: >>20476752

Here's the real version of the stuff you vandalized:

For General Writing
>The Rhetoric of Fiction, Booth
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft, Burroway
>Steering the Craft, Le Guin
>The Anatomy of Story, Truby
>How Fiction Works, Wood

YouTube Playlists for Writing
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTCv6n1whoI23GmdBZienRW0Q0nFCU_ay Robert Butler
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HOdHEeosc

Technical Aspects of Writing
>Garner's Modern English Usage, Garner
>What Editors Do: The Art, Craft, and Business of Book Editing, Ginna
>Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style, Tufte

And here's what you missed:

Self Publishing Options
>https://archiveofourown.org/
>https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/
>https://www.kobo.com/us/en/p/writinglife
>https://www.royalroad.com/
>https://www.scribblehub.com/
>https://www.wattpad.com/

AI-generated book covers
>https://nightcafe.studio
>https://huggingface.co/spaces/dalle-mini/dalle-mini
>https://app.wombo.art/

/wg/ Authors and Flash Fiction Pastebin
>https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ

Other forums
>https://reddit.com/r/writing
>https://writing.stackexchange.com/

If you're going to suck this badly, just let someone else make the thread.

Really...we should just find a janitor to delete it on the grounds of low quality.

I'm so sick of hearing about Gardner. This board is unsalvageable.

>>20479815
The only people who hate Gardner have never published a book.
Show me one author who is willing to stick their neck out with their name alongside their hate.
You won’t find one. They appreciate his struggle.

>>20479847
>implying F. Gardner isn't a pseudonym

Gardner cock gobbling from the get go, thread's already cursed to all fuck

How did Gardner get 62 reviews on amazon and over 200 on good reads if he’s a pseud?

>>20479719
All of the above.

>>20479874
Then report it to the janitors.
"Low quality" is listed as a reason to report a thread.
Let's get this one deleted & make a better one later.

>>20479847
This. I read Jigoku recently and it was a fun read. If anything Gardner has inspired me a bit to focus on my writing. He’s published a ridiculous amount of books in a short period of time and I truly do admire that. People need to fuck off with putting people like him down. He’s from these generals and one of us. I see no reason to not support the guy.

>>20479916
How about we all just report your post for being low quality? Which it is. Gardner is a /wg/ success story and none of your shitposting is going to change that.

>>20479910
sockpuppet accounts

>>20479916
Don't worry, I'll make the new thread. You'll know it's mine because it'll say "You'll make it if you persevere"

If you're reading this, stop posting in this thread and report it for low quality.

>>20479910
Well, he’s had books for like two years now. And has like a dozen of them.

>>20480079
There has to be more to it than that. I’ve seen countless books here published, all but F. Gardner without even ten views.
Is he just that good or does he buy ads?

>>20480105
He was the first to buy ads here, has the most books and has been doing it for the longest. That would be my guess. He also writes for a popular genre and is known for weird goosebump-esque twists as his gimmick. It could be a combination of any of those things. He also runs ads far more frequently here than any other book I’ve seen. So, he has a big budget to do what he’s doing.

>>20479910
I just checked to see. That’s not even counting his reviews for all his other books. Why is Call of the Crocodile his biggest one?

Also here’s an idea. Instead of people bitching about Gardner, why don’t we try to figure out what he did right? Clearly there is something to be learned here. Due to the fact that he’s simply the most known writer from /wg./

>>20480137
He's "so bad it's good".
He's like Ed Wood; a more modern example would be Tommy Wiseau, the "auteur" behind 2003's "The Room".
One big problem with Gardner's "path"...he's risen as high as he ever will. There's nowhere else for him to go.
Literally nothing can be learned from his example, unless you take lack of self-awareness to pathological levels.

>>20480165
To be honest Gardner is more like Tommy Wiseu. Because judging by that interview Gardner thinks he’s the next Dante. I think he outright said that or something very similar. He seems to be oblivious to having written unintentional comedy gold and thinks he’s a genius writer. But I get what you mean about the Ed Wood thing.

>>20479920
>He’s from these generals and one of us.
/wg/ is barely 2 years old and we had /crit/ before, newfag. It’s not even /lit/ related anymore. I think it was legitimately made as a containment board.

I let a few of my friends read my Chinaman story. and the topic of accents is split. I'm so torn right now. 1/2 my friends say to leave it and it's good, the other 1/2 says its so difficult to read and annoying so remove it. What should I do?

If you 'appen ta be good at it, why, letcher readers know so, ya rot'en bloo'y git! Don' faff about witcher arse 'angin' aut in th' breeze!

If you happen to be good at it, why, let your readers know so, you rotten bloody git. Don't laugh about which ass is hanging out in the breeze!

WHAT DO I DO?!

>>20480253
>/wg/ is barely 2 years old.

Which syncs up with what I was explaining to you. Call of the Crocodile is barely under 2 years old. Try to read the post next time.

>>20480254
Wait until a better thread is created before engaging.
Or just go back to the current thread >>20476752
This thread is a miscarriage.

>>20480267
I don’t care, redditor. You’re not /lit/ and neither is F. Shartner. Go shill your self-published Webnovel elsewhere.

>>20480109
Of course. Stories are inherently fractal. The typical novel is a single story with a single central conflict, but it is then made up of chapters, each of which is itself a story with a central conflict, a beginning, middle, and end. Then the chapter itself is typically made up of sections that are smaller stories, with a central conflict, etc. It's only then that you start getting into the quanta of story craft; paragraphs and sentences.

And it works in the other direction. A novel may be part of a larger series of novels, a series of novels may be part of a larger saga, a saga might be part of a mythology.

As an example: Star Wars (1977). A single, self-contained story whose central conflict boils down to "The baddies have a macguffin that equals end game for the eternal conflict between good and evil." And you can break Star Wars down into a series of sequences: The droids journey to Obi-Wan, Luke's call to adventure, the escape from Tattooine, the escape from the Death Star, the Death Star battle run.

But then A New Hope is also part of a larger story, the Skywalker Saga, which is then one of many stories set in the unfinished story of the Star Wars universe.

But the glue that binds a collection of ideas, words and images into "a story" is that central conflict, with its beginning, middle, and end. And if the question is "when do I end the story?" the answer is "when the conflict is resolved." The same thing applies to chapters and subsections of chapters.

>>20480299
>Soi Wars
Yikes! Post hidden.

>>20480254
Don't do accents. They're annoying and break immersion. Use word choice and syntax to convey accent. For example, this:
>If you happen to be good at it, why, let your readers know so, you rotten bloody git. Don't laugh about which ass is hanging out in the breeze!
...is how to do accents properly. It sounds like a lower class British stereotype, and I read it in that accent.

But the real reason you shouldn't do it is because you don't write all of the "unaccented" dialog phonetically, even though everyone has an accent of some sort. And you should be consistent.

>>20480286
> trying to split /wg/
Stfu faggot

>>20480347
Er...this thread is what's trying to split /wg/.
It was created way too soon, and the OP is full of pseud nonsense.

>>20480328
>They're annoying and break immersion
I can see it being annoying, but why would it break immersion? It builds immersion. I can't expect some ching chong to speak perfect english. Even if it says "with a thick chinese accent, Big Long Wang said "I would like for use to have unprotected sex for the next five months."

>release a new chapter
>instantly lose followers
How do I cope?

Hey guys I want to write a bunch of philosophy books in African languages that deteriorate their society from the inside.
What are the most self destructive ideologies that I can use against Africans?

>>20480409
Just tell them to watch Jordan Peterson's videos, and they'll fall down a rabbit hole and destroy themselves all on their own.

>Have a fantasy story with a bunch of non-human races
>Feels stilted whenever I introduce a new character of a different race by mentioning their race
Is there a more natural way to do this or do I just deal with it?

>>20480425
Descriptions and have people not be sure of what they are. eg. a human sees a snake person, and instead of calling it a Snakekin or whatever, they descirbe what he is and looks like, and you can give a more specific name to their race later on, preferably through dialog or some other diegetic means.

>>20480374
>but why would it break immersion?
Because it doesn't read naturally and makes you aware of the writing itself, which then reminds you that you are reading a book.

>I can't expect some ching chong to speak perfect English.
Which you can convey through word choice and syntax. You don't need to suddenly switch to phonetic spellings. If a character is speaking "perfect" English, you'd write:
>"I might eat pussy, but I would never eat cat."
You wouldn't write:
>"I mite eet poose bət I wood nevər eet kat."
So why suddenly start with this phonetic bullshit when it's an accent?

>>20479711
>vandalizing the OP this hard
Report this thread for low quality.

>>20479711
What are some reoccurring themes/motifs in your story? For example;
>Those that believe themselves above others being humbled (IE. A Qu-like invasion force gets BTFO'd by someone so far out of their league it's hilarious. To watch these smug, god-complex possessing aliens have everything they throw at someone be ineffective before getting oneshot is a treat and was a blast for me to write)

>>20480532
Because here's a passage from Huck Finn:

"Jim this is nice," I says. "I wouldn't want to be nowhere else but here. Pass me along another hung of fish and some hot corn-bread."

"Well, you wouldn't 'a' ben here 'f it hadn't 'a' ben for Jim. You'd 'a' ben down dah woods widout any dinner, en gittin' mos' drownded, too; dat you would honey. Chickens knows when it's gwyne to ran, en so do de beirds, chile."

I just don't see how that ruins immersion. It gives Jim a voice and as the reader, helps me distinguish who's talking without bothering with dialogue tags. Doesn't matter, Chinaman anon is going to have to decide for himself.

>>20480532
>never read a southern gothic novel
filtered.
>Because it doesn't read naturally and makes you aware of the writing itself, which then reminds you that you are reading a book.
>you must write with my ignorance in mind!!! you just need to, ok!!!
>>20480374
Keep the accents, imo, especially if you put in the effort to make them authentic.

Which of the /lit/-core books do I read?

>>20480587
Competing thread.

Report this one for low quality.

>>20480568
>Because here's a passage from Huck Finn:
You're not Mark Twain and it's not 1884.

>>20480570
Get fucked, moron. Take your cheap, cowardly attacks and shove them up your fat, fetid ass, you shit-eating, bottom-feeding, passive-aggressive fucking cunt. And then find a broken glass bottle and stab yourself in the face until you're dead. Where the fuck do you get off fucking calling me ignorant, you shit-for-brains retarded product of multigenerational incest.

>>20480634
>You're not Mark Twain and it's not 1884.
>You must NOT learn from the greats!!!! You must be contemporary, safe!
Get back to working on winds, Martin.

>>20480409
Eliminative materialism.

>>20480404
By not writing.

Oh so this is active /wg/. I was confused by the other threads.

>>20480588
CotC is a wild ride. Quite a mindfuck for several reasons.

>>20480588
Call of the Crocodile has grown on me because there’s really nothing like it. With the possible exception of the other F Gardner books which I’ve yet to read. I’ll have to read the rest of the books in that list. I like reading people’s work from here.

Have you ever met a “creative,” who makes you rethink your own talents? Some dude from high school showed me his terrible art and stories, and I felt too bad to tell him the truth. If he is deluded into thinking he’s making art, maybe I am as well.

>>20480750
Look at the gibberish, vandalized OP of this thread, and then decide which is the "real" thread.

>>20480788
This one.

>>20480788
>>20480532
Samefag

>>20480654
You're an idiot and I would explain why you're wrong, but you're also a disingenuous, passive-aggressive cowardly piece of dogshit, so I'd rather politely request that you acquire a bottle of industrial drain cleaner and drink it.

>>20480828
I do not give a shit about the quality of the header of a general that will be archived in less than 24 hours.

Take your time, they said

Stay authentic, they said

Don't overthink it, they said

Express your true emotion, they said

You'll never get tired doing something you love, they said

>>20480832
Your cowardly concession comes as no surprise, and I accept it all the same. The conversation will continue on fine without you :)

>>20480588
The only one I’ve read is Croc. QRD on the rest?

>>20480867
>The conversation will continue on fine without you
Naturally, since it's always been a conversation you were having with yourself, even supplying other people's lines. That's how obnoxious cunts argue, and you're clearly an obnoxious cunt.

>An entire new General was made because someone mentioned the meme book.

I am legit laughing my ass off.

>>20480943
Your anger is sweet to me. keep it up, slave

>>20480611
Not splitting the thread fag.

>>20479711
how do I improve my dialogue? can anyone offer some feedback?
https://youtu.be/z23jBtZ_4MU

>>20481040
It's like if Murdoch Murdoch was unfunny.

>>20481040
How can we improve perfect anon?

>>20479762
So which person is he, someone who doesn't lift or an elderly chickenhawk?

>>20481062
that's not constructive feedback. your opinion is irrelevant.

>>20481101
Reviews are always helpful.

>>20481040
Why do the microphones feel so disjunctive?
It’s like everyone recorded at their own house instead of the same microphone.

>>20480988
Me too. What pettiness.

>>20479711
>Are you incapable of making decisions without the guidance of anonymous internet strangers?
That sums up this thread. Just read more.

how do I improve on my third person writing? I am more comfortable to write in first person but the obvious problem of overfocusing to the protag's POV just does not sit well with me.

>>20481194
read books that use third person to get a feel, write in the format to get a feel for it, post excerpts here or elsewhere for feedback. practice is how you'll improve

To what extent do things like >The Rhetoric of Fiction, Booth
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft, Burroway
>Steering the Craft, Le Guin
>The Anatomy of Story, Truby
>How Fiction Works, Wood
apply to poetry and lyrical writing? Does following an archytpal theme and indulging in the heroes journey do anything other to elevate a body of work (say, an album) to pretentious status?

>>20480588
I can only speak for Call of the Crocodile. I liked it. It read just as fine as anything I’ve read by Stephen King or other horror writers. All the shitposting that book gets seems to be penis envy over Gardner. Which is not something I have a problem with. He’s written an admirable amount of books and the story kept me entertained. I didn’t see any more or less problems with it than I have for other self published books.

>>20481295
>poetry and lyrical writing
>album
>hero's journey, elevating to a pretentious status
It depends on the album. Doesn't that rely purely on the music? Lyrics aren't only dependent on their written execution but how they meld with the music, timing, and whatever. I'd suggest simpler stuff for lyrics, but you could incorporate something in the hero's journey, such as an emotional arc. They are very simple. Anyone can and should use them; they're free and no one cares if you crib it from the Beowulf, the Odyssey, or the Iliad. Are you planning on a narratorial or fictive album?

How do we fix the YA genre?

>>20481644
Grow up

>>20481644
none of us can even finish a book, let alone fix a genre

Thoughts on opening paragraph.

Mods are deleting their shit writing, and replies to it, now. What a fucking shit show. This place is basically reddit now.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YZ2VhS-8wIiKG-PXkprBpPnGv1J7fRRr/

incomplete, read through it. suggest things. the idea is to develop a framework and worldview that people can work off to get their way out of depression or poverty (i have no clue how to help the americans stuck on minimum wage here) as well as maximising on life and its experiences

>>20479711
need an assesment of the content of my newest essay

https://controlc.com/a2bad46d

>>20481918
not bad though it gets messy later on, a bit overwrought as well (I'm actually in poverty and wrote the essay with the Duke Nukem pic in the post)

In a truly epic act of procrastination, instead of working on my novel (Slave Girls On A Death Moon, coming...someday...maybe...) I wrote a treatment for a different novel. Then, to continue avoiding actually writing a novel, I made a cover for the novel I wrote the treatment for.

I feel like the third paragraph of the blurb is weak, but I love the gag.

“Snap out of it, Asteria! That man will just throw you away once he’s done using you like a battered weapon! Despite knowing that, do you still wish to work with such a person?”

Those words stung me like a million needles. The pompous bravado I displayed before crumbled. Having no retorts, I remained silent as Celestes continued to speak.

“See? This man is so willing to kill his own brethren and it would be no surprise if he does throw you away! Masaki only wanted to be happy after his homeworld isolated him! To be killed in such a brutal way with no remorse! What a heartless monster!”

Asteria stopped me when I was about to press [Depart Now]. She wanted to know my answer to her sister’s words.

“That’s right. I am a monster created by other monsters who stole everything from me! A handful of lives is but a small price to pay to retake what is rightfully mine! That is why anyone who stands in my way will be crushed, may it be a god, someone like me, or you.”

Celestes was taken back, speechless. Even the Sword Saint behind her was frightened by the malice laced in my words.

“Live and burn this day to your memory of how you lost your precious hero. Live with the guilt so that you can understand the pain that I bear.”

Just keep going

Just keep going, just keep going..

>>20480588
Eggplant is my fav

What the fuck happened to the last thread

Do you mention writing when people ask about your hobbies? If you do, how much detail do you go into? I'm probably not going to go into details with people. I think people imagine I'm crazy for writing dysfunctional and abusive characters, controversy, perversion and manmade horrors etc. I guess it makes me look like a psychopath being analytical about selling your soul or an abusive marriage.

>>20480988
No, OP vandalized the links, created this thread at 250, and shit it up with gardner

>>20480588
Croc. It needs to be read to be believed. American Psycho seems like a normie book by comparison.

>>20482140
No, I just say I'm interested in reading and I leave the writing part out. It's easier for us both that way.

>>20482228
I’m curious. What would happen if Stephen King and JK Rowling ever found out that Gardner has them as characters in CotC? It’s not just a reference. They get kidnapped in the plot and the kid has to save them. That was one of the most absurd plot points I’ve ever read in all of literature.

>>20482140
No but I do tell them I'm writing a book. Nobody is interested

>>20482140
i don't talk to people

No one here has read the sources for writing that appear in OP.

>>20481888
Only bad thoughts. If you can't see the problem yourself, you don't have what it takes. Any writer that is able to distinguish between good and and bad writing will stop reading at the second sentence already.

I am boycotting this thread.

>>20482311
>4chan not doing their homework
Are you surprised? No one here has grown since the 9th grade.
I say this as someone who has still not worked through the first chapter of that grammer I found at goodwill.

>>20482311
two of the books i read on storytelling and poetry are gone also heard a lecture on the hero with 1k faces before, which isnt 1:1 advice for writers its mostly useful as history. Plenty of authors now disagree with the "thresholds" in it.

>>20482040
I'm surprised you got a picture like that, that's not copy righted

>>20482347
The irony of that last sentence made me open it in shame.

>>20481959
Added some stuff

https://controlc.com/c5ec7d9f

>>20482355
I dunno how anon got it but I cant imagine its much to get a costume and hire a model to take a couple pictures. I was thinking about doing that myself for a book but it depends on whether I think it will help it sell, I have to look at good covers in that section of a bookstore to know.

Red light shimmered in the morning mist as the sun’s rays broke over the jagged horizon. Ostra tried to snort a string of snot running from his nose but it just got lodged in his nasal cavity. The spring time pollen always had this effect on him. Plugging his left nostril he tried to blow the gunk out. “Ah!” Ostra’s internal struggle was interrupted by the shifting of foliage. He tenderly adjusted his position on the heavy limb of the Onlog Oak he perched in. The wisps and puffs of steam were rising out in the high grass and there were faint snorts. So he raised his bow biding his time. He could just make out where the grass was being jostled. Time seemed to slow as the grass was being split about twenty strides out. Ostra drew the bow back as the horns of the Bovinbo pushed clear of the grass. It’s snout wiggling and snorting against the dirt. The drawstring was heavy, but Ostra held it, the overworked back muscles shivering from the strain. Then the broad side of the creature emerged and let out a fierce honking cry as an arrow planted itself between its ribs.
“Yes! YES YES!!” The boy threw his hands up as the creature collapsed and began kicking. He slipped from the branch and fell a short distance into the high grass.
“Ow…” Ostra gingerly got to his feet wincing from a few scrapes. A hawk spread its wings in the distance and let out a cry. Ostra nodded to himself acknowledging that the practicals were sending word that he had passed the first of the challenges. Killing the beast was the easy part now he had to figure out a way to get it back to the village. O’stra approached the bovinbo with caution recalling Gillai who had his leg smashed by the aggressive beast in his rite of passage. It would be another year before he would be able to take the exam. That’s if his leg mended properly. O’stra was with a few strides of the bovinbo. The beast was letting out ragged breaths but was not moving. O’stra glanced around to see what his best method of retreat would be if the creature had a burst of energy. Judging that he could make it to the nearest tree he drove the spear down toward the throat of the beast. It was a clean slash and the arteries began spilling bright red blood. With a final burst of strength the bovinbo floundered pathetically. It’s bright eyes stared at O’stra glaring at him. O’stra stared back and felt only a tinge of pity for the creature, not remorse. O’stra prayed for the creature’s departure before he got down to the hard work. The village was about three miles from here and he needed to find a way to get the thing back. He set all of what he had with him, save his clothes, on the ground. Bow, quiver, spear, a length of rope, half-full water skin, and a whistle rested in the grass.

>>20480409
Ethical Solipsism

>>20482425
Try a little bit of foreplay before you dump me into descriptions of a character blowing his nose. It was a moment of unintentional bathos when this reader realized you'd spent more sentences describing a snot rocket than you did describing a setting.
>"Yes! YES YES!!”
>“Ow…”
This stylism reads really amateurish. I can't give you any further justification for this reaction except that you see outbursts like this consistently in poor writing. Nobody's writing is good enough to avoid "Yes! YES YES!!" with its capitalization and double exclamation marks causing some rolled eyes. It's lazy, and almost obscene to try to portray excitement in this way. Like you'd say to someone who can only speak in terms of based and cringe, use your big boy words.
>Ostra nodded to himself acknowledging that the practicals were sending word that he had passed the first of the challenges. Killing the beast was the easy part now he had to figure out a way to get it back to the village.
Nodding to himself? As opposed to...? Who are the "practicals," and why should I care? Why was killing the beast the easy part? All of these things are the storytelling equivalent of the "so, in conclusion..." section of an essay everyone hates. Don't say that it's in conclusion, just conclude. Similarly, don't say that killing the beast was easy, show a struggle with the beast, then show a much harder struggle getting back to the village.

I know /wg/ hates this advice, but you need to show more. I am being bombarded by narrative "tell" statements by which I'm to believe all these things, that the pollen always had that effect, that some guy hurt his leg, that getting back to the village is the hard part, etc. Each and every one of these things could be given a much longer, more drawn-out depiction rather than via parenthetical narrative flourishes at breakneck speed.

Slow it down. Slow everything down. Describe a scene, take your time. Take your time SHOWING a reader what the protagonist is thinking and feeling and show the reader WHY he thinks and feels that way. Write such that the only logical conclusion would be that these thoughts and feelings are rational and congruent with the character and circumstance. Don't take it for granted that a reader will just blithely take you at your word.

>>20482482
thanks for the advice. i wanted to get a real take on this before i continued. Lets see if i can improve this

>>20480409
You are at least a century or two late my brother. Africa is finished and Libya tried to fix it until they couldnt. Dont bother, Africa is a continent of thralls already.

Heads up guys, the F gardner larper who made this thread is probably a mod. If you report his shit you'll get hit with a warning, possibly a ban.

>>20480409
>Africa
>Society
Better off learning chinese

>>20481101
nta but it's useful critique, at least.
I watched it whole:
It's edgy, but unfunny.
The writing comes across as forced. As if you yourself didn't think they were funny but was hoping that the viewers would.
At any rate, you can certainly do better.

>>20482487
One last thing: writing is misdirection. It's about confounding and inveigling a querulous cunt like me into following you along a journey. You have to give me reasons to keep reading anything that can most likely be boiled down to its bare facts.
>man kills beast
>man blows snot rocket
>man tries to get back home
Writing is everything that lives between the actions. It's about enchanting a reader into not caring that you're just relating a bunch of made up stuff. If you try to tell your reader what to believe without letting them "discover" for themselves why it matters, you've probably failed. Good luck, anon.

>>20482511
Thanks for the heads up. Sorry to hear about your post though.

I finally sold all my video games. Gonna give my whole heart to literature now, I'm really enjoying it now. I still would love to write about all the gacha and mmo autists and schizos I met, I have folders of notes on that and not as litrpg either.

>>20481040
>how do I improve my dialogue?
By getting better taste. How do you improve your taste? I don't know. But this is the fiction equivalent of Kay's Kitchen. I don't know what's so terrible about your dialogue. I can't put my finger on it, and the only thing I can suggest is that you consider the possibility that it's terrible. Like really, really entertain the idea that what you've written is shit, and consider going back to first principles. From the standpoint of anyone who cares the slightest about the written word, this is just dogshit. Yes, this might seem unhelpful. It might even BE unhelpful. But it's like you're asking for feedback when you don't care at all about the actual quality of the writing. More to the point, I have to get a bit cynical here. Since this video was posted within the last day, it really, really, really starts to seem like you've just posted a new vid on JewTube and are just trying to advertise your video. In this light, I start thinking that you're a colossal nigger who doesn't deserve even this reply. But my hubris is such that I can't resist posting it anyway.

"You will make it if you persevere"

>>20481342
the general concept I'm considering is a spiral of narcissistic abuse, imposed addiction, derealization and recovery

Anons, what drives you to write? What do you write about?

>>20481295
>>20482685
As a part-time /mu/tant, you're just describing concept albums, which aren't necessarily pretentious, unless I'm entirely missing what you're saying. What you're writing sounds similar to NIN's Downward Spiral, though you definitely have a different angle than trent reznor. My favorite album, The Black Parade, tells the story of a man descending into Hell (whether it is literal or figurative is up to your interpretation) and finding a way back up and I don't think anyone would argue that the album is pretentious.
Re-reading your post you're talking more about poetry but what I said still largely applies, I'd say.

>>20482728
>what drives you to write?
I've thought about this a lot. Tried to answer it in a few different ways. "I write to tell stories" or "I write because I must" and all that stuff. But I think I can describe it best like this: birds fly, fish swim, and I write. Maybe that's pretentious. I think it's apt.
>What do you write about?
Strong emotions rile me up. I love writing about feeling emotions, strong or deep. They can be negative or positive but as long as they're strong and move me, I want to write about them.

>>20482732
No you were right, I'm definitely talking about a concept album. I'll give black parade a listen, thanks for the rec and advice

>>20482728
Producing quality prose, things of beauty motivates me. Also out of spite for the Janny who is spamming about a shit author in this OP and his many, many posts in these threads recently.

>>20482728
Because I have a God-complex and like creating my own worlds as an unhealthy escape from my own. It's why I'm drawn to fanfiction, it lets me escape my world AND meet what feel like dear friends even if I'm not actually in the story.
My ego will tell you it's because I have stories bursting out of me that I need to get down and that my damnation is being a shit writer but don't believe his lies. Except for the being a shit writer and that sucking, that is true.

>>20482728
Because I have a strong hate building up inside me and wanted to shape that emotion into hateful and traumatic characters

Im currently working on a novella, which seems to be spiraling into an actual novel. It is about the Acadian diaspora, once displaced from Nova Scotia by the English, finally officially having the province declared the sovereign home state of the Acadian peoples, and the subsequent emigration from Quebec/Louisiana/etc back to their homelands, forcefully removing and villainizing the Anglo Menace, in a cheeky parallel to the state of Israel. I just fear my life would be irreparably destroyed if i ever published or otherwise released this book into the world. Is it all a waste of time?

>>20482775
No problem. I hope you share what you write, I'm a huge sucker for concept albums.

Enjoy! I'd love to hear what you think about it.

>>20482772
>birds fly, fish swim, and I write. Maybe that's pretentious. I think it's apt.
its seems both pretentious and apt depending on how you look at yourself. Have you ever told anyone about that idea? I'm convinced I was born into a community of philistines after seeing the disdain my family has for my pursuit

>>20482793
keep writing, do not second guess yourself

>>20482795
thanks, I'll try share it once its done

>>20482728
primarily the drive to write a fantasy that i want to read. i go for runs and can picture amazing scenes that i want to transcribe

story telling is a cheap hobby
the basics are a pen and paper
if you include oral storytelling, you don't even need a pen and paper

I’m writing a screenplay but I imagine the advice is probably pretty transferable.

Anyways, I’m about 30 pages in and I fuxking hate it. It’s cringe. The dialogue is weak. I feel like there is no big conflict.

Is this how a normal first draft goes? Should I power through and not worry about doing lots of rewriting ?

>>20482793
Sounds interesting

>>20482732
I'm on a ban from there for arguing that punks don't read and don't understand fascism

>>20482728
>Anons, what drives you to write? What do you write about?
What drove me initially to write is just a desire to create art. What continues driving me back to the computer to spend hours a day writing, at this point, is probably habit. Rank, pedestrian habit. It's what keeps me writing now. I can't complain.

>>20482728
Two motivations:
1) There is no fiction out there specifically catered to me, so I figured I would do it myself.
2) If I don't write this story, someone else will, and they'll fuck it up.

>>20482887

Yes. First drafts are frequently disgusting and terrible. You will also have many "dark night of the soul" moments where you will not believe in your work. This is why you work on something else small at times. Create some distance and come back to it.

First draft I prefer to just power through though, it's more a case of figuring out what am I actually trying to accomplish. The act of haring parts of it and wanting to change them is the most valuable, so long as you can understand why it does not work and what would be better in its place.

>>20479711
I'm currently working on a short story about an artist duo tasked to make an impressive paiting of a noble woman that ultimately lead to one of them falling for her but due to her unreacheable he start to impose her personality on another of his subject
Not only I'm unsure about it, but I can't write more than a handful of pages before cringing on what I just wrote and starting all over. I already have the full story set up and it's all good when I start to write it, then I just read it once more and I feel like I'm wasting my time. How do I stop this from happening?

>>20482728
>What drives you to write
The fact that I'm unleashing my creativity and the fact I might touch my audience. I've done it before and I'll do it again.
>What do you write about?
Mostly fantasy stuff. Back when I was a little kid, it was usually applying human characteristics to shit that wasn't human (objects and animals).

>>20482728
gives me some semblance of purpose, if i wasn't writing i'd be doing nothing or kms
>What do you write about?
fantasy/horror/relationships. tragedies in made up bullshit settings

>>20483002
you might be judging yourself too harshly
i would finish the story and have someone who is impartial read it

>>20482728
Because I feel like I have a story to tell. Not that it's new but that it's the way people need to hear it. Some ideas, events and people have so utterly changed my life I want to share it as dramatically as I can to recapture the feelings I had.

>>20482805
How are all these authors getting guns

>>20483083
I have never had a good conversation with my father in my life, I'm mid 30s. I can't recall a moment of wisdom from any grandparent from when they were alive.
How do I make this a story?

>>20483101
Did not mean to >>20483030
(you)

>>20482943
Ive heard plenty of successful authors say (or their editor say) that they will get depressed halfway through a project even after a decade of best sellers, book awards and fame. Literally every writer has this kinda doubt to varying degrees, just work through it.

>>20483101
This is an example of a broader writing issue I also have: how do you write about what is not said or what is not done?

Sorry I do not have a good answer anon.

>>20482425
>>20482482
>>20482524
ok ive editted it
Red light shimmered in the morning mist as the sun’s rays broke over the jagged horizon. A translucent fog snaked around the plateau, known as To’ Nih, as a river flows through its banks. The sun continued to rise passionate blossoms burst open to suck in the radiance as the nocturals returned to their burrows to slumber. Ostra tried to snort a string of snot running from his nose but it just got lodged in his nasal cavity. Plugging his left nostril he tried to blow the gunk out. The tickle in his nose as a sneeze prepared itself. “Ah!” Ostra’s internal struggle was interrupted by the shifting of foliage. He tenderly adjusted his position on the heavy limb of the O’log Oak he perched in. His toes gripping the ridges of the rough bark, he raised his bow ever so slightly. The wisps and puffs of steam were rising out in the high grass and there were faint snorts. He could just make out where the grass was being jostled. Time seemed to slow as the grass was being split about twenty strides out. Squatting down to plant himself firmly in the heavy limb of the mighty oak, Ostra drew the bow up, pulling back the knocked arrow, as the horns of the Bovinbo pushed clear of the grass. It’s snout wiggling and snorting against the dirt. The drawstring was heavy, but Ostra held it, the overworked back muscles shivering from the strain. Then the broad side of the creature emerged and let out a fierce honking cry as an arrow planted itself between its ribs.
“Ha!” Ostra shouted in jubilee as the creature collapsed and began kicking. He stood straight up throwing the fist that held the bow to the sky in pride. The bark he had been gripping broke away do to the sudden shift throwing Ostra off balance. He tumbled off the limb and fell a short distance into the high grass.
1/2

>>20483167
Ostra laid in the dew soaked grass. “Pride is dangerous,” he repeated outloud recollecting Elder Nyith’s many parables. With a groan Ostra gingerly got to his feet wincing from a few scrapes. He needed to focus a task left half done awaited him. A hawk spread its wings in the distance letting out a cry. Ostra nodded that must be the practicals were sending word that he had passed the first set of the challenges. He could think about that when he was sure the bovinbo was dead. Grabbing the spear he leaned against the oak the night before Ostra approached the bovinbo crouching low with each step placed lightly thinking of what happened to Gilah. Ostra was now within a few strides of his prey. The beast was letting out ragged breaths but was not moving. Ostra watched the glossy sienna fur dance as a meandering breeze moved across his own skin. Ostra glanced, not moving his head, around to see what his best method of retreat would be if the creature surged to life. Judging that he could make it to the nearest tree he prepared himself. Launching himself from the grasses he drove the spear through the throat of the beast. It was a clean slash and the arteries began spilling bright red blood. With a lame display of strength the bovinbo floundered pathetically. It’s azure eyes stared at Ostra at him in terror. Ostra stared back and felt only a tinge of pity for the creature. Ostra prayed for the creature’s departure and then formed the objectives of his rite in his mind. He began to recite the words of Hunt Master Nihoma.
“When the sun cycles fifteen times the boy must become a man. To the To’ Nih he is sent to bring back the meat of sustenance. The beast must be fell by arrow and returned to the village by the morrow. If thus challenge is achieved the rite of man he will be.”
Ostra knew the village was a half day’s walk from the To’ Nih, but he would need to bring the bovinbo back as well. He tried to roll the beast to see how much it weighed and it was as if he were trying loose a boulder. Sighing, he set all of what he had with him, save his clothes, on the ground. He needed a plan. His inventory consisted of a bow, quiver, spear, a length of rope, half-full water skin, and a whistle.

>>20483101
You either tell it almost as true to life as you can or use abstraction to take the feels and put it somewhere else.
My first story's protag is basen my dad not in every way but in his greatest motivation: to never be poor again, and for his immediate family not to be either. So I made a character who had a slightly different tragic upbringing and departure, then decline as this principle fails him astoundingly. I love my dad but I hope he hears what I mean on a spiritual level.
Try something like that, maybe try to understand your dad and grandfather and write pov of characters like them. Try to empathize why they wouldnt talk. My grandfather loved me but he rarely talked. He even rolled his eyes at his wife, would be quiet and go downstairs and work on geneaology for years. There are many things about war he refused to tell me too. But he prepared so much to take care of us. Him and my dad were men's men, like John Wayne. You werent supposed to show emotion but lead by example. They only talked through gifts, hard work and making me work. Maybe think about all of why they treated you lije they did.

Working on a novel that should be done this July, but I need more opinions on it re style, pacing, general level of engagement, etc.
pastebin.com/xHmbqUEX

If you get the time let me know what you think, and thanks to those of you who have been reading eggplant I really fucking appreciate it.

>>20483174
Thanks. That gets me thinking. Btw I'm totally that kid that went around finding other people to "look up to" because my dad was such a strange guy and my grand parents were dead at a young age. Everyone from Kurt Cobain to HST to Tom Green. Public school didn't really do any favors.
I hate to come across as bitter. What I really want is there to be more wisdom passed around to kids.
>>20483142
Perhaps in that case you could use a narrator to point things out or dance around it with an additional character to say what hasn't been said to the two primary characters. I'm sure there are more ways. But its an interesting problem.

>>20483167
Speculative fiction writing tip anon: don't introduce any world building terms in the first chapter, and if you have to never more than one. You have two already. The name of a plateau, of which I am given no reason to care about, and the name of a tree or something which I also have no reason to care about.

You also have a lot of empty adornment in your prose. Adjectives that do not actually create a sense of anything because they are too inconsistent in their tone. It is obvious to me as a reader that you simply thing they sound cool together.

> Ostra’s internal struggle was interrupted by the shifting of foliage

Sorry anon, this is almost parody leve. "Internal struggle"? Homeboy is blowing a loogie. "Foliage?".

> "“Ha!” Ostra shouted in jubilee".
It's not his wife emerging from childbirth holding his first born son. Or is he the worst hunter ever?

I don't want to be mean anon, I can tell you are just a high-school kid or something. The thing you should probably think about is: how does my prose support what the character is thinking and feeling at this moment?

>>20483227
I hated my dad growing up because of how hard he made me work but one day in my mid 20s I realized I was just like him and every time people were impressed by my character I realized I learned it all from him. He may not have talked to me but I always was taking his lessons to heart. Dad was my role model and I didnt know it.

>>20482797
>Have you ever told anyone about that idea? I'm convinced I was born into a community of philistines after seeing the disdain my family has for my pursuit
I haven't, but I have told people I've become radically elitist about literature this year. It's only worth reading the best if you want to become the best. Note, this is strictly for aspiring writers, as other texts are written with a reader in mind, NOT a writer.
It's been hard, I think, for my dad to really appreciate my desire to focus on my writing. He's old school. Your value and success in the world is linked to your job. The money you make. That's the way he's raised and has done things. I try to emphasize that my life's calling is to my writing. In this societal age it may take a long and concentrated effort to get noticed for what I am, but it will happen, and I hope my parents are around to see it.

>>20483167
>>20483170

It was early morning and the sun was red on the horizon. Ostra was perched on a limb, watching snorts of steam rise from the long, rustling glass. He lifted his bow and let an arrow fly. His aim was rewarded with squeals from the underbrush.
Surprised by his kill, Ostra punched the air in celebration, knocking himself off balance and down into the grass not far from his prize.
"Pride is dangerous", he reminded himself as carefully picked hismelf up. He wouldn't let himself be like Gilah.
Ostra crept towards the sounds. The writhing against dirt. The low groaning. He parted the grass and found the creature wasting its last, pathetic breaths to look up at him.
Ostra found in himself a shred of pity, which he discarded as he began his prayer.
"Cast the boy out
On the fifteenth cycle of the sun
Cast him to the To'Nih
To fell beast by arrow
And let him return a man"
Ostra rolled his kill to test its weight. It was a fine kill, fat and strong. Too fine, even. For he would need to find a way to carry it.

>>20483289

You use "found" twice too close together, but its a huge improvment. I'd maybe consider giving this a go if it was a short story or something. I'm not really into fantasy.

>>20483303
Are you joking? All the soul was sucked out of it and left the sentence structure monotonous and sterile.

>>20483220
Wow, fucked that right up

https://pastebin.com/2wyRWAbp
Hope this one works

>>20483408

Yes, it's actually readable now and not a jumble of adjectives of mixed and confused sentiment.

>>20483002
interesting take on pygmalion and Galatea

Reddit here. Did F. Gardner come from /wg/, /pol/, or /x/? Reposting because I didn’t not get a clear answer last time.

>>20483289
i dont like this as much.

>>20483236
> Ostra’s internal struggle was interrupted by the shifting of foliage
its not meant to be serious but yea foliage was the wrong word i misunderstood the definition

>It's not his wife emerging from childbirth holding his first born son. Or is he the worst hunter ever?

how often do you hunt big game with a recurve bow?

>>20483495
And you'll never get an answer.

>>20483495
Probably all of them.

>>20483495
/x/, but he shilled on /wg/ so much that some people got stockholm syndrome

>>20481040
this sounds like a horrible sitcom. maybe read literature. develop an ear for beat changing

>>20482728
It's therapeutic.

Apparently I'm really good at writing stories about topics containing physical and sexual abuse (which I've gone through). I've made my audience cry a lot and a lot of people remark on how human my stories are (IE the dynamic between abuser and abused is very gray).

It's more helpful than any therapy or medication. I'm basically just dumping all of my trauma into story form but changing the names. It's great.

>>20479815
Any order anon. Any order.

opening for a book i'm editing

https://pastebin.com/HhNB6H7y

posted a version of this before and rewrote it based off anon feedback

would greatly appreciate more feedback

>>20482355
Oh, it's just a mock-up. I'll need to find some actual art eventually.

Start by watching The Graduate.

>>20483836
>start by watching
No. You must read.

>>20483862
Okay, find, read The Graduate by Charles Webb.

Just remember
>/wg/ doesn't read so they won't even read other anons works.
Besides F Gardner of course

>>20483236
>Speculative fiction writing tip anon: don't introduce any world building terms in the first chapter, and if you have to never more than one. You have two already. The name of a plateau, of which I am given no reason to care about, and the name of a tree or something which I also have no reason to care about.

lol wtf are you talking about?

>>20483416
>https://pastebin.com/2wyRWAbp

The first paragraph seems redundant and confusing. You should include this information later, if at all. The start of your second paragraph is much better.

>When we left, I knew it would be impossible to ever return.

is a much better first line than:

>As a boy my world had no center, and if I had run in one direction forever to test its limits I believe I would have died before I ever saw the end.

You need to ground the reader in a scene with a character before you start waxing poetic.

>>20483875
I would read this, but it looks like there's a movie of it, so I'll just watch that instead.

>>20484099
Seems like good advice to me

>>20484099
Not that guy but if you throw in too many phrases without defining them, people start glossing over them because there's no sense in trying to remember a bunch of gobbeldy-gook terms. It's fine to not immediately define a term or its relevance in your world, but you want to pace the speed at which it's done so the readers can keep the ideas you've already presented fresh in their minds.

>>20484117
You can say some things, as long as they can be understood contextually, but a lot of undefined things at once just feels like one of these copy-pasta fantasy intros where you have eight names in two sentences.

>>20484117
>>20484107
is this why isekai is such a popular way to start a fantasy?

>>20484102

>>20484101
Thanks I appreciate it

>>20484169
Probably. A big pitfall for new fantasy writers is introducing new terms fluidly. Usually you would have an "apprentice" character from the world that you use to provide exposition to, nowadays the easy answer is to just have a character from another world that has everything explained to them.

>>20484169
It's part of the reason. Sometimes fish-out-of-water stuff is fun to see, because outside perspective can be interesting to an established setting, it gives an easy inroad to exposition and it's more relateable to the reader than somebody who's native to that fantasy world.

>>20479711
burgerfag here, what's the best writing postgraduate course in the uk? fuck this hopeless shithole

how are oxbridge, uea, and city for writing? heard uea was the most prestigious?

any good documentaries/lessons on how to write fantasy ?

>>20484169
If part of the draw is that its an event story where something happens to disrupt the status quo, you first show the status quo so that readers understand what will be restored if the protag succeeds. Isekai is similar to that but its usually a location story also, where we see how that location is different and then leave after.
In Bradbury's the Long Rain he only talks about the rain and the jungle, familiar things, in the first paragraph. Some normal dialogue. The a Sun Dome is mentioned. Then the bleaching effect of the rain. Then that theyre on Venus. It reveals each one passage at a time but because its a short story its okay. In a novel its better to slow down those kinds of things, but still if you are planning some inciting incident it shouldnt be too late.

>>20484169
Isekai is popular because the reader and the protagonist experience the fantasy world at the same time and it cuts out the exposition most writers need to catch readers up with what the protag already knows

>>20484197
The amnesiac protagonist was also popular for a long while because of this reason, I'll add

how do you balance reading with writing?

i feel like if i don't read my writing suffers, but the reading just dominates me entirely. i feel like my head is completely stuffed with the thoughts of other people from the amount of reading i force myself to do.

after a solid five to six hour reading session, my brain is fried, i am in no position to sit down and write. i feel like the reading is consuming me. it also has the effect of completely demoralizing me, in the sense that nothing i write seems worthwhile in comparison to the things i'm reading.

do i just stop reading entirely? when i try to stop reading for days or weeks, i can actually feel my brain capacity diminish and then my writing suffers. is there any way at all to balance reading and writing so that you don't completely paralyze yourself?

Need an Emily roommate and friend to get me a corndog, bros

>>20484273
>five to six hour reading session
You don't need to read this long every day. Make a schedule and dedicate specific time blocks to reading, writing, and the rest of your life, whatever that may be. I have two hours set aside for reading every day and two hours for writing, maybe you'll do better with more or less.

>>20484273
I read in the morning over breakfast and sometimes a little over dinner, and then I write at night. That usually fits into a nice balance for what I like. I think if you read even half as much as you write you'll make plenty of gains. I take too long to read, though, and I get distracted by YouTube, especially if my hands are busy with something else like cooking and I can't actively read but want stimulus.

>>20484273
>he doesn't read while he writes

>>20484273
>he doesn't read and write while he shits
ngmi

>>20484273
>after a solid five to six hour reading session
You spend almost an entire work day reading? Want to guess what authors do during the same amount of time? Write.

>>20484277
Kate's hotter.

>>20482887
first draft is going to be bad, but you have to ask yourself if it's because the story is bad. if the story is bad, then there's no point continuing to the end at this point--you'll just be writing stuff that will have to be deleted.

If the story itself remains sound you should continue. Dialogue is going to suck in first draft. Get over it.

>>20483002
Stop reading what you wrote. If it's a short story, you should be able to power through without looking back. Finish it before you come back and rewrite.

well /wg/ is he right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxvcYbezfg

>>20483416
>https://pastebin.com/2wyRWAbp

I think you have a potentially interesting story here.

I would get rid of al the early paragraphs and start with the "Across the lake..." paragraph.

What comes before that is either unnecessary or can come later.

Your writing is generally fine but can benefit from some light editing, reducing some of the unnecessary adjectives that weaken the prose. For example, "Even the killers" is better than "Even the maddened killers"

"Men tortured" is better than "Men tortured crudely"

Another example: "men who are not men but exterminators" is better than "men who are not men but superhoned exterminators."

Many of those adjective and adverbs slow down and ruin the impact of the prose.

Elsewhere you appear to have simple errors of grammar or spelling you should b able to figure out yourself.

Good luck. It looks promising!

Best font and size?
Garamond, Baskerville or times new roman?

>>20484425
Sylfaen pt 9
I will also take Perpetua pt 9 as a backup.

>>20483819
>https://pastebin.com/HhNB6H7y

Anon I think you are wasting your time. You should begin a new project that has nothing to do with this subject.

>>20484401
The thousand yard stare of a middle age man with 4.5k subscribers. That's all I took from your video.

I have finished chapter 1 of my Fantasy story, please tell me what you think.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iU2mJ6g9wi-780NbY-0oowmTN64n5AqdEV8uq2L9Ig4/edit?usp=sharing

>>20484465
LitRPG with anime styled dialogue and syntax.
Excellent. Just write 200 more chapters and post it on Royal Road

>>20484358
Would you rather eat barnacles...or this?

>>20484424
Thank you my guy

>>20484459
Yes true but his tips seem far better than the 1000x female hottakes and Daniel greene

>>20484277
Sorry bro but Emily is already my roommate.

>>20484225
the brandon sanderson youtube videos on his 2020 BYU class
it's like 8, 1 hour videos
then you have writingexcuses.com

>>20484401
Man, that dude's head wobbles around a lot. It's like he's missing a vertebra.

>>20484492
How did you find the first chapter tho? Fun? intriguing? Did it make you want to know more about the characters?

I'm curious how it sounded anime to you, you're not wrong, I just don't know why.

That was the first time I felt so natural writing. I wrote all that in one day and it came easily to me.

>>20484532
Those were pretty good but felt lacking

>>20484520
I'm not able to hear them over how distracting he is.
The man looks like he writes highly detailed and deeply personal reviews of different SSRIs.

>When they say day oos ex machina
I wish people would just say day ex machina I don't care if its wrong

>>20484556
Jerry jenkins was the next on the recommended and he is a lot better Plus he is successful

>>20484465
Can someone else please read my chapter? I'd like some more thoughts and feedback

>>20484557
I once had a summer job advertising the Wii U. They would ship us around in a walk-in trailer that had a bunch of playtest units set up. We weren't there specifically to sell consoles as we had none for sale but we were supposed to answer any questions and show the capability of the system.
Many would asked me what the point of the gamepad was when in practically every game we showcased it did almost nothing. My response to this was to point to Deus Ex: Human Revolution which was getting a remaster on the system that allowed the inventory to always be displayed on the touchscreen.
My manager overheard this and asked what I was talking about. After explaining it to him he said "Oh yeah! Do-sex. I don't know why you're pronouncing it like that though."
For the rest of the day I had to pronounce it as do-sex in front of children and their parents.

>>20484465
What a drag to read

>>20484617
Why?

>>20484345
So far you need avoid relying on adverbs. Adverbs are telling not showing. Dialogue tags need to be short and avoided don't add to them with adverbs . I'm going to continue reading it now

>>20484640
Did you reply to the wrong person?

>>20484640
Lol my bad >>20484640
for >>20484465
also I hate your story. I do like some of the parody and dialogue but overall its just a bad plot for engagement and reads like 10,000 other guild adventure stories. Ghoul wolves dragons etc needs more creativity go the Sanderson route

>>20484676
Why is it a bad plot for engagement? It was just setting up and introducing the protagonist from the perspective of the receptionist, the story is split between their perspectives, hence the title "Demon and secretary"

>>20484686
To add on to this, I was going to give him two apprentices in the next chapter, a guy and a girl. The story hasn't really started yet.

>>20483101
It's called fiction for a reason. Make it up.

>>20484686
how will it compete with these ? all it has going for it is the secretary who is actually a receptionist
https://jw-webmagazine.com/best-light-novels/
also there is already a published LN about a guild receptionist https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-guilds-cheat-receptionist/

>>20484738
Because it's actually a romance between the receptionist and the ranger character. The protagonist isn't even the receptionist, it's the ranger character.
Perhaps, perhaps it's not a good introduction to the story?

i want to note im not overly critical like other anons. i just think this concept is not going anywhere because your story is based on the first chapter and all it screams is generic adventurer web novel. If it were a manga and you express how cute the girls were then maybe you would get an audience. it was pretty funny but you definitely need to create unique monsters

>>20484769
I see.
The monsters used in the intro chapter are just examples of monsters the other adventurers want to fight. The protagonist specializes in undead monsters so there's room for creativity with the monsters there.

>>20484738
>English novel competing with Japanese novels
How?

>>20484785
My suggestion would be to open with something gripping. Your first chapter should be the second chapter maybe. I'm thinking maybe display the threat of the undead monsters. We all know how goblin slayer opened thats what prepares the reader for your story. You need to get those hooks in.

>>20484803
I see, that's a good idea, thanks

I am writing my first novel. I wanted to know if I get any advice on the prologue chapter? It seems a bit short, so I want to know if I should lengthen it with fluff or keep it the same. Maybe change some stuff up to immediately hook the reader to want them to read more. It's supposed to be very ambiguous at the start:

https://pastebin.com/YAx3PBNm

I used to write greentext stories on several boards, but haven't ever experimented with novel-style writing until now, thus the reason I worry my descriptions may be inadequate or the details of the scenario may be too condensed (even though it is supposed to be a hazy and confusing night that is going very quickly for the protagonist).

Any advice would be appreciated. It's only 770 words, so it's a quick read. I just wanted some advice so I can revise the chapter and start working on the second chapter.

>>20484799
Anon's story is basically a mmorpg world which is the standard for Japanese adventure ln novels

>>20484818
Light novel*

>>20484818
No...it's not? It's not an mmorpg. It's just a fantasy story with a little rpg elements mixed in.

>>20484822
That's pretty typical by LitRPG standards, yes, it's usually just glorified set dressing.

>>20484822
The type of people who would read this are the people reading Japanese light novels

>>20484852
No, I agree, I'm just saying it's not an mmorpg, because it's not a Massive Multiplayer Online RPG

how many chapters are too much for a short story?

wow who knew that removing the word "as" would improve ones prose so

>>20484862
sorry anon the mmorpg was not meant to be literal. it feels like a mmorpg because there is an entire guild set up for many adventurers besides the protagonist

>>20484875
depends on how long your short story is. Typically a short story doesnt have chapters

>>20484814
Write a prologue. Than delete it. You're welcome.

>>20484913
*Then. Holy shit I'm retarded.

>>20484465
How do I write a brooding character? I showed this draft to someone else, and one of the things they said was that I mentioned the man as brooding but in the story, he came off more like "socially awkward". Which is fine, I was going for a bit of both to be honest, but how do I make him brooding?

>>20484913
>>20484931
I don't catch the subtext of that comment. Was that just a "this is shit" comment, are you saying I should rewrite the prologue, or do you actually mean I should try to write a prologue to the prologue? Is that a writer's technique? I have knowledge of why what is happening in that chapter I wrote; it's just something that is revealed later.

>>20484958
He meant you don't need a prologue. Why bother with one and just make the story start already.

Ok did more editing i think i have it now

Red light shimmered in the morning mist the sun’s rays broke over the jagged horizon. A translucent fog snaked around the To’ Nih Plateau like a river flows through its banks. The sun continued to rise passionate morning blossoms burst open to suck in the radiance as the nocturals returned to their burrows to slumber. Ostra tried to snort a string of snot running from his nose but it just got lodged in his nasal cavity. Plugging his left nostril he tried to blow the gunk out. The tickle in his nose, a sneeze preparing to erupt. “Ah!” Ostra’s internal struggles interrupted by the shifting of reeds. He adjusted his position on the heavy limb of the oak he perched in. His toes gripping the ridges of the rough bark, he raised his bow ever so slightly. The wisps and puffs of steam rose out in the high grass accompanied by faint snorts. He could just make out where the grass jostled. Time seemed to slow the grass split about twenty strides out. Squatting down surefooted on the heavy limb of the mighty oak, Ostra drew the bow up, pulling back the nocked arrow, the horns of the Bovinbo pushed clear of the grass. It’s snout wiggling and snorting against the dirt. The drawstring was heavy, but Ostra held it, overworked back muscles shivering from the strain. The broad side of the creature emerged and it let out a honk. An arrow jutted from its ribs.
“Ha!” Ostra shouted. The creature dropped and began kicking unable to recover. He stood straight up throwing the up fist that held the bow. The bark he had been gripping with his toes broke away throwing Ostra off balance. He fell a short distance into the high grass.
1/2

>>20484877
Prove it please

>>20485106
Ostra laid in the dew soaked grass. “Pride is dangerous,” he repeated out loud recollecting Elder Nyith’s many lectures. With a groan Ostra gingerly got to his feet wincing from a few scrapes. He needed to focus a task left half done awaited him. A hawk spread its wings in the distance letting out a cry. Ostra nodded the practicals were sending word that he had passed the first test. He could think about the other test when the bovinbo was dead. Grabbing the spear he leaned against the oak the night before. Ostra approached the bovinbo crouching low with each step placed lightly. He would not be like Gilah. Just a few strides away from his prey, he heard the beast letting out ragged breaths but it did not move. Ostra watched the glossy sienna fur dance with a meandering breeze that moved across his own skin. Ostra glanced, not moving his head, around to see what his best method of retreat would be if the creature surged to life. Judging that he could make it to the nearest tree he prepared himself. He exhaled launching himself from the grasses he drove the spear through the throat of the beast. It was a clean slash and the arteries began spilling bright red blood. With a lame display of strength the bovinbo floundered then seized. It’s azure eyes stared at Ostra, and Ostra stared back. Ostra gave thanks to the creator and then set forth to complete the rite. He began to recite the words of Hunt Master Nihoma gave him yesterday..
“When the sun cycles fifteen times the boy must become a man. To the To’ Nih he is sent to bring back the meat of sustenance. The beast fell by arrow and returned home by the morrow. If thus challenge is achieved, A man he will be.”
Ostra gazed upon the ox no longer out of admiration. He knew the beast was well endowed with fat and fur, but how much did this trophy weigh? Sighing, he set all of what he had with him, save his clothes, on the ground. He needed a plan. His inventory consisted of a bow, quiver, spear, a length of rope, half-full water skin, and a whistle.
2/2

>>20485108
Jim was humming a song he heard in church
jim hummed a song he heard in chuch

Lads, be honest, is it shit and should I drop it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19X1b0PJ2v0IXi9s4TTGxrZ9uN510lhsHTv-9J07g2Rk/edit?usp=sharing

>>20484877
Bro your similes?

>>20485031
Well that chapter was the prologue/chapter 1. It sets up into a dream sequence (chapter 2), which then sets up to the start of the main story. Does that chapter 1 prologue I wrote seem like an unnecessary or boring start?

>>20485162
Then that means Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 are both pointless.

Your first chapter should set up everything and point the direction where your story is going to go.

>>20484640
>avoid relying on adverbs. Adverbs are telling not showing
Explain how this is true.

>>20485151
He moved as quiet as a door mouse around the barn

He crept around the barn

>>20484814
>The safety she neglected from her hovercycle was returned with the compact width she required to safely move through the packed lanes at a reckless pace.
fucking what?

>>20480654
>Get back to working on winds, Martin.
>its another /lit/ has never read the authors they shitpost about episode

>>20485178
Sarah said angrily, "I don't give a fuck about these grammar lessons!"

Sarah slammed the desk "I don't give a fuck about these grammar lessons!"

Captcha: 4NGYY

>>20485134
I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the modern prose but going by the norms of the day yours is not bad. What was written was enough to make me hope you'd written a little more. A few commas might be able to be replaced with em dashes, like the one at "specter, perhaps"
You could make it as an eccentric pervert with a schizo style.

>>20484451
>I think you are wasting your time. You should begin a new project that has nothing to do with this subject.

i have a couple of projects i'm currently outlining, but this is the first book i've written that i'm actually trying to polish. i feel like it will help me be a better writer by taking it all the way to its most complete form. any reason you think it's a waste of time? i know it's a controversial subject but it's a satire. my premise is that a media company partners with a live streaming serial mass shooter who becomes a celebrity. as the US government hunts him down the media company defends him with their own hired mercenaries.

i'm already on my 4th draft and every time i think about giving up on it, it gnaws away at me in the back of my mind. i'm worried if i don't finish it i will never be able to complete anything else.

I can't write for shit but I like sp00ky horses.

Andy puffed on his cigarette, looking out over the calm water. Another sleepless night had left him irritated and the beach was proving to be of no comfort. A few minutes passed waves were starting to come in. He'd had enough. Putting out his smoke with his shoe he stood up and turned from the waves to the road he would take to get back home. Upon stepping forward the sound of footsteps on the sand to his back caught his attention. Turning around and expecting another late night beach visitor he instead saw a black horse standing by the water. It was big, with a coat so black it blended into the night sky. Andy stumbled on the sand, startled by the animal. He regained his balance all while the horse paid him no heed as it stared over the water. With the shock wearing off, he reached for the phone in his pocket, all while wondering who exactly to call, believing that a stray horse should be reported. He settled on the old reliable nine-one-one and activated the device. At the call screen and ready to dial, he heard a voice. "Andy, come here." Dropping his phone, he looked all around him for the voice he didn't recognize. His eyes eventually settled on the horse again, but to his surprise its head was now turned in his direction. He smirked. "As if." he thought. As he was bending over to pick up the phone he heard the voice again, this time clearer. "Andy, come here." Standing up straight he again scanned his surroundings finding nothing but the horse, which had now turned its whole body to face him. He looked into the horse's eyes, stupefied. The feeling of calm, a calm he'd never experienced flooded into his mind, all of his anxiety disappearing as he stared into this majestic creature's eyes. He felt light, no longer burdened by the cares of his life that had for years been gnawing at him. A huge wave crashed, breaking the silence and grabbing his attention. Upon looking back, he was three steps from the horse with his arm outstretched as if to pet the animal. That calm feeling vanished and was replaced with worry. Now feeling a dread well up inside of him he stepped back, feeling the eyes of the beast still on him. That dread built and built, as if instinctual, and Andy turned away and started running back to that familiar road home. When he felt his shoes hit pavement he turned back, and saw the horse now wading into the rough waters, no longer looking at him. He again turned and ran, forgetting his phone.

>>20485246
Noted, thanks for the feedback.

>>20481888
dont listen to
>>20482324
he's a blackpilled faggot.

>>20485246
>I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the modern prose
Also, could you explain this a little more? I'm afraid I'm not terribly well versed in the differences between modern and classic prose.

>>20482728
I'm good at structuring stories and making compelling characters. I know this because I've made other media with compelling characters. but art is very time consuming and most mediums don't let you get down to the nitty gritty of things the way written word does. i struggle with writing though because when i make comics or cartoons, the visuals i create in my head drive the story. with prose I have to start from scratch, and smash cuts from scene to scene and POV to POV aren't nearly as easy.

>>20485106
You're putting an adjective on almost every single noun. It's intolerable.

Way too many participle clauses.
>A hawk spread its wings in the distance, letting out a cry.

>>20485271
To clarify, your prose is(though I don't read much of the genre) on par with the impressionist/symbolist works that I'm familiar with, I'm prejudiced against modernism.

>>20485120
"as"

>>20485205
>Sara quickly walked away.
>Sara ran away.
How is one of these sentences 'showing' and the other 'telling'?

>>20479711
Failing to put words on paper is not a unique emotion. Dropping lunch onto a carpet was a recent event which had a similar effect. I become quickly aware of the sunkenness of my eyes into the darkness behind them. The splatter of stew and smashed ceramic onto my bedroom floor was unpleasant. It wouldn't take long to clean. I don’t care.

The hundredth echo of picrel, amplified up to jet engine volume. A softened, worn-out tape recording.

Even social incompetence is more forgiving. I blush like a bitch, but at least red is passionate. The persistence of the social is a weighty deep anchor, the bejewelled band of human continuity a surface to push against. The disappointment of uncreativity is like a greying splash, dropped out onto a veiled canvas that recedes away into the blank. A once well-kept natural spring sneaking away in the desolation of foggy ambiguity. Soft green moss flattens out into thick, layered dust. To capture thoughts on a page, you have to rein in this tide of escape, boxing away the sinuous flight. Order must prevail.

>>20481888
>blue blue sky
proofread
>watch one, a plane
Redundant
>He wondered if jessica was serving, but she wasn't, but he thought it anyways
What?
>THen back to wondering if she was in the cabin beds.
I thought he wasn't thinking about her serving up there earlier.
>Who the fuck is Ivy Innocent all the sudden in the same paragraph that was focused on Jessica.
What the fuck is going on?
>When did he get a sandwich?
I thought he was watching the sky from the ground, now he's in a high story office?

This needs to be deleted and rewritten. Your one paragraph can easily be 5

>>20485292
Impressionism, surrealism, symbolism, that sort of thing. An unbiased review would be this: Your prose is skillful, and your style is unique. Your work is modernist. The content was enough to pique my interest.

>>20485345
both are telling. Ran away is a better sentence though. But if you put

Within seconds, Sara's butt bounced from my sight.

That would be showing.

>>20485134
It's very dreamy. You'll find love from poets but probably not much from contemporary readers. I thought it was a pleasant read, but keeping up this exact style through a whole book sounds like it could be very trying, both from a writing and reading perspective.

>>20479711
Last week I showed up at my ex’s home without invitation. It sounds sinister, certainly unreasonable. I don’t really have an excuse: I believed she wanted me to come round. The delusion came on quickly, a few Instagram stories and a listening history were sufficient to send me into an unabashed stampede. Reflecting on the signals seems particularly perverse: a cover of a song about child abuse, albeit a particularly amorous one; and a deep red drink, assumed to be cranberry juice. The fact that I even checked Spotify makes me uncomfortable.

This constituted some kind of localised virtuality, a personal construction in which my behaviour constituted perceptive spontaneity. The intertextuality of internet artifacts results in resonances which run deep, constituting an at least passable set of coherent evidence.

I guess this happens all the time. I wonder if American college sexual assaulters could get away with this plea. I’m sure all suspects say something similar.

>>20485401
So the presence of an adverb is unrelated to whether something is telling or showing?

>>20485393
>Impressionism, surrealism, symbolism, that sort of thing
That's modern??? If anything modern prose is over-reliant on describing events literally

>>20485261
I was going to read what you posted but you pre-emptively shielded yourself with the excuse that you can't write for shit so I won't bother. Thanks for the heads up.

>>20485491
i know not to do that next time now.

>>20485478
I have no horse in this argument but learn how logic works. "you can be telling without adverbs" does not contradict "all adverbs are telling".

>>20485261
The horse turning part is nice and spooky.

What should I be writing about?

>>20485515
The Diamond Dozen trying to maintain the reign of cats and dogs from making it a doggy dog world with the help of a call from Ita Day.

>>20485497
I think the real reason why you're told not to use adverbs is because they make sentence structure the same and every sentence sounds the same.

>he ran quickly
>he got up steadily
> she wrote slowly

noun verb adverb

>>20485508
Thank you

>>20485523
It's also lazy writing. English is interesting in that it has much stronger words to describe something.

Run quickly vs Sprint
Got up steadily vs Composed
Wrote steadily vs Meticulous

>>20485522
If you're not going to write it. I will, but I need to finish my Chinaman story.

>>20484499
But eating percebes makes you cultured!

>>20480556
Characters work hard towards/dream about having/being/doing something but when they get it they aren't happy. In the beginning this motif was intentional:
>a virgin character finally has sex, he's still as sad as he was before.
>a poor character works 14 hours a day and makes a lot of sacrifices to get rich, wonders why he still feels empty.
But then they started to creep into my other stories as well.
>Want to write a quick noir novella while cooling down from other projects
>Don't bother outlining it
>First chapter is the main character dreaming about his now wife when they were teenagers
>It's a realistic but happy depiction of the first days of a relationship
>Second chapter is his wife waking him up, saying that she still doesn't want to sleep in the same bed as him
>He also didn't want to sleep in the same bed, was only taking a nap in there because it was more comfortable than the living room sofa.
>Two chapters and 5000 words later the story finally begins
>Outline the rest of it in such a way that the MC's shitty marriage becomes a central plot point and not something I wrote for reasons unknown
>Never finish it

>>20485479
He means the modernist school. Pound, Woolf, Joyce, that crowd. I don't know what you'd call this contemporary modern prose. Barebones minimalism? Faux television script?

>>20485798
>Faux television script?
kek

I have to say, you guys suck at critiquing. I posted my story here and got "it sucks" and "I hate it" and one person telling me why. I posted my story on Reddit and got a 5 paragraph essay on my story's strengths and weaknesses and someone went and edited my whole story by leaving comments

>>20485838
if someone had to rewrite your entire story and wrote a 5 paragraph essay on it, then your story sucks.

>>20485838
Why did you come back? Please go have fun on reddit. We're way worse... and stuff.

>>20485845
"It sucks"
your guys feedback sucks
"because it sucks"
fucking useless board.

>>20485852
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Yeah, I'm out faggots.
>nobody posts their work
>posts work
>nobody fucking reads it
useless people

>>20485838
Nature of where you're at. Just accept this is a vitriolic place and get over it, or leave.

>>20485917
I don't care if you're vitriolic, but if you're going to pretend this is a writing general, at least fucking read and give feedback on the work that's posted here. It's pathetic that redditors are better at it than you guys

>>20485929
you must engage in three critiques of your own before you can cash in on feedback

>>20485852
Agreed. Truthfully, this is a shitposting and entertainment board. I posted work a while back and got similar results. Nobody here is interested in providing meaningful feedback. 'It's bad', 'it's fine', and 'I like it' is all I ever see. Or unproductive seething.

There's zero reason to post work to 4chan and tons of reasons not to.

>>20485950
Yeah, thanks for the heads up. Even when I ask a straightforward question like, "how do I write a brooding character?" I get crickets. I'm going to take my business elsewhere.

>>20485798
I mean even then, surreal and especially symbolic writing didn't start with the modernist movement. if anything it was an act of regression from the realist movement.

>>20485970
>"how do I write a brooding character?"
Oh so you're this fag
>>20484465

We gave you critique. We said it reads like an anime/litrpg. That's more than enough of a critique.

There's nothing unique about it. There's no reason for any of us to continue writing a giant essay for you and tell you that it's a anime litrpg.

animefag you got much more constructive critique than most people do. if i had to add my own, you're far too concerned with writing dialogue and not at all with writing prose. it reads like a bad screenplay. read more books (good books) and imitate them rather than thinking in tv show

>>20485970
Alright faggot, I deigned to read your shit.
>“Here is your reward. Thank you for your service,” she said with a cheery expression that didn’t reach her eyes.
Just say 'smile that didn't reach her eyes'. It reads better.
> “I can’t take it anymore,” she said. The nonstop requests that need approval, keeping track of inventory, having to deliver messages between different branches. I’m being a receptionist was tough. She just wanted to go home and sleep for several days.
>I'm being a receptionist was tough
I can't tell if the bitch is still talking after 'she said.' and you just forgot to use quotations, or if these are just her thoughts. Also a lot of grammar and spelling errors in the first real paragraph alone. You want criticism on your writing? Develop some basic technical ability before you ask for critiques. The fact you're bitching about no one reading your work and giving proper critique when you can't even polish it up enough for it to be worth a damn of time investment makes you an utter faggot.

>>20481040
Holy based.

>>20485991
Not that anon, but seeing how this is /wg/, the writing general, there's plenty of feedback that could be provided: sentence structure, word choice, flow, formatting. None of this has to do with plot, and only tangentially with style ("anime"). 'It reads like an anime litrpg' is such garbage feedback--what is he supposed to do with it? The fact that you think you had a defense is what's wrong with this board. Shouldn't /wg/ be giving advice to amateurs?

>>20486008
He got ass for critique, where most people get none. Awesome.

Also, having tons of dialogue is normal for contemporary genre fiction, and especially 'anime pseudo-litrpg'. Telling him to write 'more prose' (flowery description, or introspection, I assume?) is basically telling him to write literary fiction. Such a dogshit take.

God I hate this board.

>>20486036
Idk man I got some useful shit when I asked; have you tried being less of a faggot? Or perhaps writing something worth critiquing?
>This message goes out to the three (3) spergs ITT

>>20486036
>telling him to write literary fiction.
not a bad idea

>>20486036
>Shouldn't /wg/ be giving advice to amateurs?
No.
>'It reads like an anime litrpg' is such garbage feedback--what is he supposed to do with it?
It means that the genre is complete utter shit and it doesn't pique anyone's interest. It's the most mundane, generic, and childish writing and plot possible. We can all just open a manga or watch some anime of the season like "I died and reincarnated into a giant cocksucker" or "I died and reincarnated into a fantasy world as a faggot"

Nobody gives a shit about these diamond dozen stories. It's so generic and overwritten that /a/ even has jokes about it.

>>20486051
Again, shouldn't /wg/ be providing advice to amateurs? Your recommendation boils down to "write something good", which again, is proving my point about how dogshit this board's advice is.

>>20486053
I read both genre and literary fiction. I get that this board has a hard-on for sparking genre vs literary fiction gangwars, but if you provide the advice "write literary fiction, not genre fiction" as anything other than bait, you might genuinely be retarded.

>>20485838
>>20485929
>>20485950
>>20485970
That's because this is the pseud thread.
Just look at all the vandalism in the masthead.

>>20486074
>No.

Well, fair enough, then.

>>20479711
>>20486088>>20486088>>20486088

>>20486090
Retarded frogposter.

>>20486077
I'll humor you once more this thread.
>Again, shouldn't /wg/ be providing advice to amateurs?
No.

> Your recommendation boils down to "write something good"
Why would anyone take the time to critique something that is clearly sub-par and lacking in any passion or skill. If a work can be summarized as 'shit' with no further discussion, then, my friend, it is probably unequivocal shit. Want to prove me wrong? Then post the work in question you've been bitching about, and we'll see if you were unfairly judged. But you won't.

>which again, is proving my point about how dogshit this board's advice is.
Present shit, get shit on; what don't you get?

>>20486090
>page 1
>less than 310 replies
Do newfags really?

>>20486107
"I'll humor you once more"

Cringe? I don't use that word lightly.

>>20486123
>didn't post his work

Yikes? I don't use that word lightly.

>>20486127
I hope desperately you aren't that anon, because you said you were done.

>>20486107
That's the thing about the anons who bitch about the state of critiques in /wg/ they can't acknowledge they may just be, in fact, shitty writers and that their works isn't worth any serious effort.
Just look what this anon >>20486025 said to Brooding Anon. What's the point of giving real critique to a work that hasn't even been proofread by its own author? People shit out words and then expect critique before they can even critique themselves.

>>20484814
> The safety she neglected from her hovercycle was returned with the compact width she required to safely move through the packed lanes at a reckless pace.
>If she had not been beseeched by her inebriated sense of urgency...
>Her body...her soaking body...
>*ring*
>reached quickly..., quickly presenting
'kay. Sure. Whatever.

>her soaking body
>the...drenched woman
>As she walked, she hurriedly disrobed from her...leather pants...
Yeah, no. Sorry. She hurriedly removed her soaking wet leather pants? No.

Also, she removes her pants then her boots. Amateur stuff, my man. Amateur.

>>20486036
>Telling him to write 'more prose' (flowery description, or introspection, I assume?) is basically telling him to write literary fiction.
Actions at the very least. Anything that makes his novel a novel and not a glorified play. Its like filming a movie without camera movements or any regard to composition. Yes, technically varying scenes of characters talking in a room would constitute a movie. But movies are much more than dialogue. The fact that his story begins on a long uninterrupted stretch of dialogue with the only thing breaking up the monotony being the context to said dialogue is an awful sign.
>having tons of dialogue is normal for contemporary genre fiction
Normal in the sense that contemporary art will always be oversaturated with bad art. Its not a genre convention (which you shouldn't adhere to religiously anyway), its a hallmark of our time's bad writers. Its normal for contemporary genre fiction to have bad dialogue too, is he exempt from that criticism?

can a memoir be about a fictional character