/lit/ - Literature

>>20466104
why can you not believe?
are you really so deep into the materialist mindset that you can possibly fathom that which can not be seen nor completely understood?

>>20466155
you are not helping him

I read Dante's Inferno, it was a wild ride. I don't want to go to Hell.

>>20466104
the karamazov brothers

>>20466104
Text a Catholic. Tell him to recommend books to guide you.

>>20466104
This >>20466246
, preferably a Catholic you know.

>>20466246
What do you recomend?

>>20466155
My mind tells me they ara all lies to control me.

books wont give you faith. I saw the face of God many times before I started to truly believe.

>>20466104
Huysmans’ en route

>>20466104
Berkeley

>>20466416
Somebody crop the face of the dude being fucked by the bull and make it into a reaction image.

>>20466155
>why can you not believe?
Because the believers themselves don't show that they very deeply believe in it, at least not enough to act like it

>>20466416
Same.
He's truly a white guy with a white beard and hair.

>>20466104
Concluding Unscientific PostScript - Kierkegaard

>>20466416
>I hardwired my brain with drugs and experienced a oxygen starved event and chose to interpret the resulting damage as justification ex post facto.

>>20466481
A lot of Christians have been martyred for refusing to renounce their faith, even in recent history. Choosing to be summarily executed rather than renounce one's faith(even if only pretending outwardly to live another day) speaks volumes.
That being said, I do understand your complaint. In the modern world, nearly every belief whether it is spiritual, political, philisophical, or religious, is simply worn as a fashion statement rather than held as an objective truth, but this is a problem that is universal in the modern world.

>>20466365
Well, in what way do they control you, and who do the lies benefit?

>>20466104
Just go to the church already, you larper.

>>20466155
I have trouble buying into any form of dogma, materialist or spiritual. Just too comfortable being uncertain, and spirituality feels forced and phony. I admire the community aspects of Christianity but can't get over the hurdle of believing something for the sake of believing it.

>>20466104
Read Ellul.

>>20466155
>cannot be understood
>yet i will see this obviously human creation as gospel and the word of god

>>20466523
>>20467245
both are good answers

>>20466155
>are you really so deep into the materialist mindset that you can possibly fathom that which can not be seen

Yes. Why would you believe in something that cannot be seen/observed/felt/interacted with?

>>20467459
>something that cannot be seen/observed/felt/interacted with
By you.

>>20466104
Praying is more important than any book, unironically

>>20466104
or Lagerkvist in general.

Pensées

Nobody believes in God. Please stop larping.

>>20466104
jesus is life.

its that simple.

Forget about christian morals. large thoughts.

you are thirsty, and he is the water.

>>20467502
crossing oneself

>>20467720
seems like an interesting author. thanks

>>20466362
Text him.

>>20466365
Check out *The Religious Sense* by Luigi Giussani. Really that goes for anyone, it’s one of the best books on religion I’ve ever read.

reject religion and read the pessimists

>>20466104
you're not one of the elect, sorry anon

>>20467762
Metaphors like that only make sense to people who already believe.

>>20468535
:(

>>20466785
based

>>20466104

Pray. Ask for the gift of faith (by praying, you are already making an act of faith). It is all a matter of grace. Trust in the goodness of God.

The case for the Resurrection is much stronger than many realize. The evidence is set out concisely and well in these two books:

Green, Was Jesus Who He Said He Was? (Out of print, but inexpensive used copies are available: https://www.amazon.com/Was-Jesus-Who-He-Said/dp/0892836245))

McDowell, More than a Carpenter

Also consider the recently published The Case for Jesus by Brant Pitre, a gifted young theologian.

I think conversion stories (such as pic related) can be very helpful for people have a difficult time with belief. These stories show the many different and varied ways people come to faith.

I recommend:

Spiritual Journeys, edited by Robert Baram (Out of print, but used copies are available: https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Journeys-Robert-Baram/dp/0819868760/).). I have read many volumes of Catholic conversion stories, and if not the best, this is certainly one of the best.

Surprised by Truth series, especially the first volume. The selection of stories and quality of the writing is right up there with Spiritual Journeys.

Sheldon Vanauken, A Severe Mercy

Thomas Merton, The Seven-Storey Mountain

John C.H. Wu, Beyond East and West. I was pleased to see this book recently became available again, on Kindle, after being out of print for many decades. Wu was an interesting character -- from a poor Chinese family, he rose by dint of his brilliance to clerk for Oliver Wendell Holmes on the Supreme Court. A winsome and charming memoir.

Roy Schoeman, a Harvard Business School professor, describes his conversion experience here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeDzSfquYcs

Again, remember to pray, and to ask for God's light and guidance as you seek the gift of faith.

>>20468666
Oops, I attached the wrong version of the Kars story.

bumping for OP

>>20466155
Because the believers use fallacious reasoning and lie a lot

Then the Bible itself contradicts itself

>Let's say I do something and it works out
>Well then I go ahead and quote Genesis 9:3, "Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you" and so on
>Let's say I do something and it doesn't work out
>Aheh
>Then I turn the page and quote eh, something like Romans 14:21 "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else"
>The Bible and its believers are like that

>>20466104
Anyone who wants to believe but feel they can't already have God's hand around them. It's a glint of faith embedded deep that once you state that you WANT to believe, then he'll get you the rest of the way I promise.

>>20466104
nietzsche and jung
the new aion is here so you might want to catch up if your not already aware

>>20466155
>why can you not believe?
I do. What I don't want is to pretend I believe. I'm not sure I can be genuine in my beliefs

>>20466246
Bortherman, the only Catholic I know is bisexual and onions incarnate. Then again, I suppose he's only Catholic in name.

May Allah guide you to Islam ameen

The book that will get you to believe in God is the Noble Quran

If you agree that this is what you believe contact your local imam


The best site to read the Noble Quran is quran.com with many footnotes for important thinkers

>>20469906
>look at me cherry-picking part of 1 verse in the bible while ignoring the surrounding context or additional verses explicating the spiritual truths embedded therein

>>20469906
Thanks for very bigbrained take, I see you understand the topic very well you have difinitely much read.

>>20466979
go to church and pretend to believe? Probably what a decent percentage of church-goers do

>>20466104
Belief can't be forced anon. The best you can do is figure out why you feel you have to believe in the first place. Then you can go looking for a religion, if you still want to by then.

>>20470545
>spiritual truths
Explain in real, tangible terms what these 'spiritual truths' are. They don't count if you can't explain them

Can you explain any of this using formal terms? Even just logic or linguistic terms. I want to see some of the truths you have here

>>20471074
Just cherry pick two contradictory verses. In the case of
>Everything is there to eat
>Better not to eat meat
The second verse recommends abnegation as a way to avoid being clouded too much by material desires. Paul also recommends not getting married because it can tie someone down to the physical world and cause spiritual turmoil, but that it is still not a sin to do so.
Just read, where do you think you are? Literally just read the book and you wouldn't have to make cringe pseud takes.

>>20471093
What could be more cringe or pseud than worshiping someone else's volcano demon? You don't have a covenant with him anyhow

>>20471105
Not worshipping my Volcano Lord.

>>20466819
>A lot of Christians have been martyred for refusing to renounce their faith, even in recent history.

Which is an awful and very selfish reason for martyrdom. You should sacrifice to put someone else's suffering on you shoulders, not to promote your worldview.

This is another reason why I could never be a Christian. Sacrifice is a universal value, yet Christians (and monotheists in general) seem to insist on exclusivity to their own belief system, which makes me think that they're more interested in demonstrating this exclusivity, rather than the actual noble virtue of sacrifice.

Sacrifice is noble, soul winning is not

>>20466481
yeah, this made me lose my faith when i was 7

>>20466104
Bernardo Kastrup - More than Allegory. I'm only 2/3 through but it's a great read. Really makes me read the Bible differently. Oh yeah read religious texts. This should be obvious.

>>20471144
The statement was a response to someone claiming Christians don't really believe wbat they preach. The counter-argument is that many Christians historically and even in the modern age believe strongly enough to die for what they believe in.
But on the topic of self sacrifice, that's a core element of Christianity.
>Matthew 25:31-46
>When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
>And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
>And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
>Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
>Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
>Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
>When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
>Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
>And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
>Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
>I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
>Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
>Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
If one isn't willing to commit self-sacrifice in the name of the Good, then they aren't listening. Obviously running off and getting martyred for the purpose of getting a reward is retarded and not real sacrifice- there's no charity or sacrifice in trying to quickly approach eternal happiness. Likewise, there is nothing selfish in refusing to renounce one's beliefs. It is the meaning of integrity.

>>20471204
(cont.)

also anything Joseph Campbell. Maybe start with Power of Myth or Myths to live by. If you're into Christianity, get The Essential Writings of Christian Mysticism by Bernard McGinn. It gives a wide range of approaches and ideas. What can help too is just praying for the Lord to help you. The problem with faith is that it's not rationally attainable. This makes it hard for a materialist mindset to make the jump. You can't make the jump yourself so don't beat yourself up for it. It's through the Lord's grace that we can see the true meaning of it all.

Not exactly literature but watching abd listening to people that have found faith is very inspiring. I remember it was my guitar teacher who really laid the mustard seed for me. He said 'God isnt in the past. He's not up in the clouds. He's right here, acting on everything. If God was far away, why would we need religion?' or something to that effect. He was a fundamentalist kinda chrisian but I definitely learned a lot from him. I see it this way: Sometimes it helps to just take the scripture at face value. Sometimes you have to see it as an allegory. There's a time for everything. Oh yeah with a big caveat I'd recommend Philip Dick, especially his late works and the exegesis. This isn't really an introduction but a deep dive into transcendence. Really helped me though since he lives in the modern world and thus has a more accessible mode of thought.

When you come across contradictions don't worry. We live in a 3D projection of an nD Universe. Every religion tries to describe things that really can't be captured by language. But I'm starting to ramble here so I'll keep it at that.

>>20466104
I have some thoughts myself but I'm afraid I won't make sense. Also bump.

>>20466104
I recommend reading Wise Blood by Flannery O’Connor, and Franny & Zooey by JD Salinger

>>20471008
>spirituality seems phony
>just go to church and pretend bro
Solid suggestion

>>20466104
The bible.

>>20466834
they encourage submission to the authorities anon- whether worldly or religious ones

>>20466481
This shouldn’t discourage you. Jesus says that he teaches a narrow path, and that the end times would be full of hypocrites and apostates. Those who profess with their tongue but not their heart are to be pitied and prayed for, but it should by no means keep you yourself from Christ.

>>20472682
It most certainly does, since human values such as sacrifice and forgiveness are far from exclusive to Christianity, and date back to millenia before Jesus was even born

>>20470502
What would allah get by rewarding you, if you are grateful and believe?
both of these questions probably have the same answer. So, using this statement has quite literally no significant impact on anyone. Allah has nothing to get from us. Whether he will punish us or reward us with 72 wives. What does allah want from his creations?

>>20472696
This shouldn’t turn you away from Christ either. Even early apologists such as Justin Martyr recognized among the pagans those who knew and lived in accordance with the Logos prior to the incarnation. It’s not as if no one knew God at all except for the Hebrews until Jesus came. Aspects of truth can be found in other traditions, but Jesus Christ is Truth itself.

>>20469900
Cringe dumbass frogposter pseud.

>>20466104
I was in a similar position. I don't know what's standing in your way, but I finally accepted God after I read The Abolition of Man. Ironically, it's one of the more secular books by Lewis. Yet it made me accept that there really is an objective moral/value system and confront the fact that objectivity is utterly incompatible with atheism. I absolutely believe there are evil men, so I must believe in an objective standard, and there can be no objective standard except the will of God.

>>20466104

>>20466104
.

>>20472812
>It’s not as if no one knew God at all except for the Hebrews until Jesus came
That is quite literally what the Bible says, and what was upheld by the Church Fathers, though. If this was the case, then what was the point of the non-canon cope about the Harrowing of Hell? Why did all gentiles go to hell by default because they were gentiles if they could go to heaven just for practicing their own religions?

>>20472112
He said he admired the community aspects, hence my suggestion.

>>20473251
OP wants to convert from atheism to theism, not from communism to common sense.

>>20466104
I'm a pseudo paganlarp or unbeliever and the brothers karamazov and the silmarillion probably brought me closest to how christians feel

>>20473290
>common sense
common stupidity

>>20473270
> That is quite literally what the Bible says
Melchizedek appears early in Genesis and is a priest of God. Abraham offers him a tithe. This man had no blood connection with Abraham, and lived before Israel was even a thing, or even before Abraham was circumcised. We also know of more prophets of God that were not Hebrew. Balaam in the Book of Numbers is not an Israelite. In the Book of Jonah the non-Israelite sailors become afraid when they realize that Jonah is fleeing from the presence of the Lord, and even made sacrifices and gave praises and vows to Him when the storm subsided. God even has Jonah go to Nineveh to preach and tell the people to repent, and they do, and the king tells the people to earnestly call out to God. These were not Israelites. God spoke with Job, and Job was not an Israelite either. I can go on and on.

Outside of the Bible the Gentiles knew of God through philosophy or mystical experiences, but polluted with falsehoods like idolatry and the worship of demons. This is an obvious truth. It’s a key part of the Epistle to the Romans that people know God from the things that are created and suppress the truth in unrighteousness, and many do the things of the law by nature—because they have a dim idea of God.

I already told you that Church Fathers such as Justin Martyr said what I said above, and many others if I went and bothered to dig up their names. And the Harrowing of Hades is right in the Bible, it’s not a ‘cope’. I’m not saying that everyone had perfect or full knowledge of God. They practiced many things such as idolatry, human sacrifice, pederasty and other things that cut them off from knowing God. Christ did preach to everyone in Hades, and many of the ancient philosophers and mystics realized then that Christ was who they had been talking about.

>>20473270
Also, everyone was in Hades (which is different from Gehenna) until Christ came.

>>20473354
Ah, so, gentiles as a class weren't damned to hell, they just had to practice Judaism (despite 99% of the world not even having the possibility of knowing the particulars of random desert tribe #582's religious beliefs) and work towards the benefit of world Jewry against their own people (despite 99% of the world having no possibility of even knowing what "a Jew" was, let alone acting against their people in any meaningful way).

>>20473372
I hope you realize that no one is damned to hell until the Last Judgement, and that Gentiles are not a race, but a term for those who do not know or obey God as they should. Many Gentiles are shown coming to worship the one true God in the Bible, such as Ruth and Rahab, etc. These two in particular are ancestors of Jesus. Paul wrote that everyone has the law written on their hearts and do the things it requires by nature. God implanted in them a conscience, and moral ideas. Even the Israelites in the Bible could hardly follow God, and are shown degenerating into paganism throughout the Bible. They were a Covenant people established by God for the coming of the Messiah to the world, and nothing more