/lit/ - Literature

>>20455434
Sorry the formatting got fucked up when I copied and pasted it from word. I'll try again:

>My sole consolation when I went upstairs for the night was that Mother would come in and kiss me after I was in bed. But this good night lasted for so short a time, she went down again so soon, that the moment in which I heard her climb the stairs, and then caught the sound of her garden dress of blue muslin, from which hung little tassels of plaited straw, rustling along the double-doored corridor, was for me a moment of the utmost pain; for it heralded the moment which was to follow it, when she would have left me and gone downstairs again. So much so that I reached the point of hoping that this good night which I loved so much would come as late as possible, so as to prolong the time of respite during which Mother would not yet have appeared. Sometimes when, after kissing me, she opened the door to go, I longed to call her back, to say to her “Kiss me just once more,” but I knew that then she would at once look displeased, for the concession which she made to my wretchedness and agitation in coming up to give me this kiss of peace always annoyed my father, who thought such rituals absurd, and she would have liked to try to induce me to outgrow the need, the habit, of having her there at all, let alone get into the habit of asking her for an additional kiss when she was already crossing the threshold. And to see her look displeased destroyed all the calm and serenity she had brought me a moment before, when she had bent her loving face down over my bed, and held it out to me like a host for an act of peace-giving communion in which my lips might imbibe her real presence and with it the power to sleep.

>>20455446
>>20455434

So... is this a book about you wanting to fuck your mom? This is pure faggotry. NGMI.

>>20455472
No it's not gonna be a book about me wanting to fuck my mom. This is just a tiny part of it. But obviously you're just trolling so I don't see why I'm even bothering to respond to you.

>>20455528
Not trolling, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>20455446
If you want to evoke the sense of childhood nostalgia and fears you need to be more generic or go all out like Proust.
> the sound of her garden dress of blue muslin, from which hung little tassels of plaited straw, rustling along the double-doored corridor,
This is a good example, it yanks the reader out of any nostalgia they are feeling since almost no one will have experienced those details, their nostalgia is not the narrators, at best you replace nostalgia with empathy. I would rework it so the bulk of this is purely designed to evoke the readers own nostalgia, have the narrator try an connect directly through things most everyone will have experienced while waiting in bed for their mother to tuck them in; wait until the end to add in those unique details which remind the reader that it is not their nostalgia and fear. This will build a stronger connection between the reader and the narrator so they don't judge the narrator so quickly like >>20455472 did.

But lack of context, so sort of difficult to really give advice. In context of the whole it may work wonderfully as written.

>>20455619
Thanks! This actually constructive.

>This is a good example, it yanks the reader out of any nostalgia they are feeling since almost no one will have experienced those details, their nostalgia is not the narrators, at best you replace nostalgia with empathy

Don't you think Proust himself add quite a lot of little details like this though?

>Proust
I dont know who is trolling who anymore

>>20455631
Proust goes about it differently, he exploits structure fantastically and has impeccable technique which allows him to get away with more, but he absolutely exploits the generic, all good writers do. Identify what you want the reader to get out of a given paragraph and how the paragraph relates to the whole, focus on that. That paragraph seems to primarily be internal conflict of desires, the desire for what we want conflicting with the desire of appeasing our parents, the literal thing that the narrator wants is a fairly small bit. With this there is a large amount of common ground with most everyone.

I would give the beginning of Swann's Way a read/reread, notice how much Proust exploits the generic and how he interweaves those bits which are unique to the narrator. Some others which could be worth some study;
Brautigan - So The Wind Won't Blow it All Away, keeps the details and relies on context, the inverse of what I said before, he waits until the end to show the reader how much they are like the narrator but the narrator is almost as disconnected from the little boy who he was as the reader is.
Baker - The Mezzanine, goes the other way, reduces it down to pure thought, literal representation of the internal monologue. Quite like Proust, but without the deep reflection and crafting of idea, just the idea in its natural state.
Adler - Speedboat, does it through structure and context. Memory begets memory begets memory and they all alter the context of the others and somehow form a linear progression despite being out of time.
Bowels - The Sheltering Sky, reduces it to purely nostalgia with no details because they have long been forgotten and all that remains is the feeling and the desire.

And Queneau - Exercises in Style, every writer should read this. Not quite so directly related but it shows how to identify and execute the purpose of a given paragraph/story better than anything. Read it and than use your above paragraph as an exercise, you will learn a great deal.

>>20455772
>The Sheltering Sky
Oops, that one snuck in, getting tired. I was meaning to keep it to first person narratives dealing with memory since that would be most applicable. Still relevant and worth a read.

>>20455434
This is how it's done, bambino:

>Castello, the local mob boss, was fumbling with the little girl on his lap who had just downed two individual sized bottles of coke. She really had to go and was squirming anxiously in an effort to get free of his strong grasp without having to say the embarrassing thing: that she had to pee real bad. But Castello wasn't blind, in fact that had been his idea all along when he offered her first one pop, immediately followed by another. Her mom, a very comely woman of about thirty, with gloriously aerodynamic bombs-away-breasts, had tried to discourage the child from taking the second pop, but she had been quickly overruled by Giovanni Castello. Now the pantyhosed child in the short Shirley Temple dress was at the point of bursting and Castello had already begun to tickle her mercilessly in a feigned attitude of avuncular joi de vivre. Suddenly there was a sharp cry followed by the sound of a very strong stream of pee that splashed obscenely all over Castello's left leg and crotch. Watch it you little hussy he growled in feigned anger as the child began to cry even as the hot jet continue to splash boisterously on Castello's lightweight Merino wool suit pants. Angela, come here, he screamed to his secretary. Get this little hussy off of me, before she ends up drowning me in pee! Angela knocked into the girl's mother, who had stood up with the intent to retrieve her tragic child. Sit down, Mrs Rossini, he said sternly, Angela will handle this! Angela take Felicia to the bathroom and get her washed up, then change her into one of the Shirley Temple dresses in the front window display. Yes, sir, Mr Castello! Come Felicia, let's get you out of those soiled clothes, they already reek! The girl, red-faced and bawling uncontrollably, was led away by the secretary. Amara you owe me, you owe me big! Io sono il capo di questa città! You and that little hussy of yours have embarrassed me! Come here and help me get out of these reeking clothes! Mrs Rossini did as she was told and helped Castello out of the ruined Merino wool pants, even as she tried to look away while doing it. Suddenly she felt his large hand on her haunches. Then the other began to paw at her sweater-clad "tette a bomba." No Castello, non ora, ti prego, la bambina tornerà presto! Bend over and lift your skirt Amara. You owe me! No, I beg you, Don Castello. Please not today, spare me the embarrassment, I'm wearing yesterday's drawers, they're unclean! I said bend over, you hussy, and he took out a whip...

>>20455772
Thanks anon, this is really helpful. Just reading through the beginning of Swann's Way again, and I can see what you mean.

The section on page 15 of this version definitely reflects what I'm aiming for, although of course Proust's writing is in another league:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://uberty.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Proust-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjq4_qyg4z4AhUEiVwKHY2fDt0QFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Ee3ClLMWoGrXtoVNmS_Ua

>>20455434
you want to evoke universal feelings; stairs are universal and hold enough mystical canonical value to work for nearly any reader, but straw and muslin are somewhat too specific, and so are the doors.

your writing reminds me of the sort of anti-modern writers in england during the 1950s and i think there's a lot of potential there in how magical they could make nostalgia seem, but i also think you have some growing to do as an author before you'll really get good at it. part of the process is learning to draw on tropes and previous stories well, because the goal you are trying to achieve requires you to throw out notions of originality in favor of reworking previous ideas with new form

but i'm a pseud so

>>20455872
to continue on this i think something you might find value in is reading tltw&tw and watching its movie adaption directly after; not because "lol movies are part of canon now" but because the adaption is sort of a peak literary adaption *aesthetically*, with most of the scenes being incredibly bare and minimalist for a movie

it gives a graceful image despite the realism of the medium, by stripping the scenes to their essential factors, it captures the feelings of the original works without butchering them, demonstrating why the books worked as well as they did to begin with: some things must be left to the imagination, so when you highlight details, they fill the observer's mind and leave longer-lasting memories

>>20455872
Thanks for the advice. You don't get to be a Proust without constructive criticism such as this so I really appreciate it.

>>20455864
>The section on page 15 of this version definitely reflects what I'm aiming for,
The reason I said to only read the beginning is because it is too close to what you are aiming for and likely to cause mimicry, which is never good and Proust already did it. Those other books are all quite different and will show you different ways to deal with the same subjects, even if you do not like them they will all provide you with a great deal that is useful. The first three are all short and can be read in a sitting, so you can easily spend a few night with them and study in some depth. The Sheltering Sky is the only one of any length and probably the one you will like the most, but not as directly applicable since it is third person, the way it deals with nostalgia and the past is quite unique.

Queneau will get you thinking about your writing, style, and technique and not that of others. This book taught me more about style than anything else, especially doing my own exercise in style. Great fun as well.

>>20455960
>The reason I said to only read the beginning is because it is too close to what you are aiming for and likely to cause mimicry, which is never good and Proust already did it.

I agree that mimicry is bad, but if I am able to mimic Proust so effectively that someone could mistake my writing for his, then that shows I have skill. Obviously I wouldn't want to publish it, but if I can write in a Proustian style as well as Proust himself, then that's surely impressive. Obviously the next stage is to develop my own style, but it's still encouraging to hear that I can write as elegantly Proust.

>>20455434
Fixed it for you:

>My only consolation, when I went upstairs for the night, was that Mum would come in and kiss me once I was in bed. But this good night lasted so short a time, and she came down again so quickly, that the moment I heard her coming up the stairs, and then the sound of her blue muslin garden dress, with little tassels of plaited straw hanging from it, rustling along the double-door hallway, was a moment of the greatest sorrow to me; for it foretold the moment that was to follow, when she would have left me and come down again. So much so that I came to wish that this good night, which I so loved, would come as late as possible, in order to prolong the time of respite during which mother would not yet have appeared. Sometimes when, after kissing me, she opened the door to leave, I wanted to call her back, to say: "Kiss me again." But I knew that she would then look displeased, because the concession she made to my unhappiness and restlessness by approaching me to give me that kiss of peace always annoyed my father, who found these rituals absurd, and she would have wanted to try to make me lose the need, the habit, of having her there, let alone the habit of asking for an extra kiss when she had already crossed the threshold. And her disgruntled look destroyed all the calm and serenity she had brought to me a moment before, when she had bent her loving face over my bed, and held it out to me like a host for an act of peaceful communion in which my lips could imbibe her real presence and, with it, the power of sleep.

>>20455997
Mimicking a writers style is not as difficult as it seems, especially for short bits. It is far more difficult to get away from the mimicry.

>>20456025
That might be true. But I feel like being able to write like Proust and match his elegance and beauty counts for something.

>>20456032
>polly wants a cracker

>>20456040
Well, do you think my writing matches Proust's beauty and elegance?

>>20456054
Not at all, it reads like someone trying to be Proust which is why I brought him up. I felt no need to mention that it reads like a poor imitation, that is useless criticism and would likely leave you unresponsive to constructive criticism. My first post was literally analyzing your writing from the standpoint of his. This is not to say that it is terrible, just that it is terrible as an imitation. Striving to be an imitation is ignoring your own voice, by the time you master his there will be nothing left of yours. There is potential there but it is not as an Proust imitation, identify those bits which are in your own voice, expand and elaborate on those, develop them into your own voice and a full and cohesive style.

>>20455434
Dumb faggot from yesterday, or a copycat, thinks he is ONCE AGAIN, going to prove how intelligent he is by presenting a famous author's work as his own. Kill yourself dude. You're not intelligent.
>Oh look at me I'm pretending the ENGLISH TRANSLATION of Swann's Way is my own work TEEHEE. Now I'll just sit back and wait for someone to call it garbage! Then they will look so stupid for critiquing MARCEL PROUST. And I will thus have proved I am better than everyone on /lit/ and that I AM A REAL WRITER AND MY WRITING IS ACTUALLY GOOD.
K I L L Y O U R S E L F

>>20456150
Is it really that poor of an imitation? What about it makes it so obviously worse than Proust's writing?

>>20455772
>Queneau - Exercises in Style
Stop spamming this schlock, you Retarded pseud

>>20456223
It's hilarious how much this makes you seeth.

>8 posters
>one dude just happens to be harping about how OP is so similar to Proust
>it's clearly OP arguing with himself because no one took the bait
This is even sadder than yesterday.

>>20455997
Literally no one mistook your shit attempt for Proust

>>20456229
It's hilarious that you think you've duped or exposed anyone.

>>20456235
It is Proust.

>>20456239
Stop feeding the troll and stop replying to this shit thread. OP is also the guy "pretending" OP's writing in an imitation of Proust. It's the the dude kept up with the Proust imitation thing even after OP linked to the exact passage he copy pasted from. You're probably also OP too since the poster count didn't go up. Jesus Christ you're pathetic.

>>20456251
OP is the fag who made countless threads before self-fellating himself for reading obscure books and shitting on /lit/ because the average user reads Punchon et al, then had a meltdown when everyone shat all over him.

>>20456251

>>20456251

>>20456256
Rent free