/lit/ - Literature

>>20447306
Start with Chrysostom and stay there cause his work is like 3 volumes of patroligia graeca

>>20447306
Books I’ve found helpful—
>The Ladder of Divine Ascent
>The Way of the Pilgrim
>The Philokalia
>Sayings of the Desert Fathers
>The Spiritual Counsels of St. Paisios
>Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr. Seraphim Rose
>The Art of Prayer: An Orthodoxy Anthology
>Three Treatises on the Divine Images (St. John of Damascus)
>Monastic Wisdom: The Letters of Elder Joseph the Hesychast

>>20447371
I’m not the only who reads Paisios here?? Nice!
Might want to add St Isaac the Syrian and the Evergetinos to your list.

And I have to recommend The Mind of the Orthodox Church by Metropolitan Hierotheos

>>20447306
Orthodoxy is political larping

>>20448135
You’re just jelous

>>20447306
no

>>20448135
I was baptized into the Orthodox Church as an infant.

>>20448135
satan pls

I’ve read a few orthodox books over the years and the ones that stuck out the most to me were the ‘simpler’ ones that cut to the heart of prayer and living the christian life and largely ignore complex theology and sectarian issues- two that come to mind are Way of a Pilgrim and Wounded by Love about the monk Porphyrios.

>>20447371
Those are all advanced theology. Is there any introductory material, like what would an Orthodox priest recommend a potential convert to read?

>>20448695
I’m not sure if I would personally consider these ‘advanced theology’—many of these are full of anecdotes of monks and ascetics which are extremely practical in many cases and have been very helpful for me in working to cultivate humility, fight temptations, the passions, and develop a healthy practice of prayer. Even if one does not live the life of a monk, they have a treasure trove of wisdom for Orthodox Christians to read. I definitely wouldn’t recommend diving right into the Philokalia or something though. Many of these I read when I was a catechumen and found them through talking with people at my parish, or from the recommendation of my priest. Those books provide a good look into the life of prayer and the spiritual heart of Orthodoxy. What I consider ‘advanced theology’ would be reading a bunch of obscure stuff on essence / energies, the filioque, minutiae about natures, wills, etc.

This said, for some really basic but really informative stuff, look at some books by Kallistos Ware, particularly ‘The Orthodox Way’ and ‘The Orthodox Church’ (the latter was directly recommend to me by a deacon when I first visited—very good book). Also helpful for me was ‘Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity with the Temple, the Synagogue and Early Church’ published by Ancient Faith Publishing. The very short work ‘God’s Revelation to the Human Heart’ is good as well, by Fr. Seraphim Rose.

>>20448135
Online Orthodoxy is pretty bad. It’s not really reflected at all in parish life.

>>20448128
St. Paisios is amazing, honestly. I first found him through the recommendation of a guy at my parish, and I went and read ‘The Gurus, the Young Man, and Elder Paisios’ and was blown away by the portrayal of him in that work—a great miracle-worker, unconditionally loving, extremely Christ-like. His counsels are wonderful as well. I hope to be able to get all the volumes one day. I’ve only read two.

Thanks for the recs too! I have not read any of those. I like St. Isaac the Syrian from the little I have seen from him, his quote about the love of God being a torment to the wicked was actually one of the things that led me to look for an Orthodox church IRL.

Russia's Catacomb Saints, compiled by Fr. Seraphim Rose and Fr. Herman Podmoshensky, is an absolute necessity for this day and age.

Here's a bootleg printing.

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/a-turner/russias-catacomb-saints-hardcover/hardcover/product-kgwz88.html?page=1&pageSize=4

>>20448128
The Evergetinos is very based. I think there's an English version by Vatopedi Monastery.

>>20448900
I don't understand why they don't keep it in print, I see it recommended all the time.

>>20447313
So Chrysostom is long af? Man, and I just got started

>>20450084
That monastery basically runs on a shoestring budget. That’s why the Genesis book is out of print too

For me, it's St. Maximos the Confessor's Mystagogy and St. Ephrem the Syrian's Hymns.

>Paisios
KEK

>too embarassed to just agree-and-amplify the bible's fairy tales
>regurgitates neoplatonic theology to sound less stupid
why be a Christian at all then?

>>20451445
Tell me how you’ve never read the Church Fathers to any significant extent

>>20451450
Well yeah the earliest ones were all about "believe my volcano or else you are demons" but once you get past them it becomes "actually the Bible is what Plato wanted to say all along, everyone can convert now without feeling weird also your parents' religion is outlawed"

>>20451450
>*steals a dead body from the local cemetery*

>>20451462
Continuing to demonstrate you haven’t read any Ante-Nicene Fathers lol

>>20451577
Why do you need to read apologetics if you are neither embarassed nor confused about what you profess to believe in? Is something wrong with believing a preacher promising eternal life rose from the dead because is he is the god of one of the warlike provincial peoples subjugated by the Roman emperor? Why do you need volumes and volumes of commentary on their scriptures to convince you it isn't stupid?

>>20448695
Seconding Timothy Ware's "The Orthodox Church" as a good beginner text. Goes over history of the Church from Christ to modern day, and gives an introduction to the theology/liturgical practices of the Church.

>>20448695
Kallistos books. Life in Christ by St. Cabasilas, On Acquisition of the Holy Spirit by St. Seraphim of Sarov. Must for catechumens.

>>20451719
It’s so weird to me, being raised in Texas, seeing anti-intellectualism so rampant in evangelicals and young earth creationists, and then seeing this Richard Dawkins crowd grow in the same way. I was a highschooler when God delusion came out and every argument I have with people like this usually ends in “why read philosophy at all?”

>>20451719
The Bible by itself isn’t stupid at all, you’re just projecting your biases. Reading commentaries and treatises and the lives of the saints can help us understand different ways of reading and understand the text, obscure passages, or what the life of someone who lives a Christlike life looks like in practice

>>20452159
You believe an executed magician is God. Case closed. Roman writers as early as the actual doctor and surgeon, Galen, used "Christian" jokingly in his writings to refer to someone who accepts premises without evidence. Any further "explanation" is you dodging that affirmation or caveating it with, what was historically neoplatonic theology, because that was what educated Romans believed in, and to defect to Christianity as a member of the elite many felt needed explanation, hence the proliferation of apologia. This transition was attacked and responded to, with the initial attacks ultimately being suppressed as independent works and only surviving as citations in Christian rebuttals, e.g. Origen's Against Celsus

>>20452102
>“why read philosophy at all?”
According to Paul, philosphers, that is to say Gentiles, are prideful and sinners. That's the original, pre-Gospels, Christian view on the matter. As to why Christians pose as philosophers, it is because of the intellectual need of Roman elites to justify their conversions, which they did by appealing to Neoplatonic theology such that Christianity was the completion of what they already believed it. Very clever but pointless in a world where non-Abrahamic platonism is extinguished

>>20448557
>Literally 1 pre 20th century book

>>20447306
So fucking sick of Ortholarpers.

>>20452466
They'll eventually become Muslims since they are looking for an ethical system to justify their reproductive fantasies and edify a sense of wanting intellectual revenge against modernity. If you're genuinely Orthodox just sit tight. Alternatively, since Christianity ends with lesbian lutheranism and you are only getting there at a slower pace, consider what matters to you about Christianity carefully. If you are bothered by lesbian lutherans, you should join the other e-converts on their quest for an exclusively male religion. Christianity's earliest base of converts were, after all, of the fairer sex.

>>20452466
I am eastern european and this is an international website.
If you don't like it, don't enter the threads.

>>20452523
you are a historical-determinist retard

>>20452543
>noooo we won't end up like protestants
How many autocephalous churches are there now?

>>20448695
The Faith of the Saints by St Nikolai Velimirovich is good introductory catechesis

where do you find your joy?

>>20452580
So?

>>20447306

>>20452580
At the rate that Eastern Euros are going, there will soon be more Autocephalous Patriarchates than Orthodox Christians.

>>20447306
For something a little different from what's already been recommended, read Everyday Saints by Archimandite Tikhon. It's a series of anecdotes about the lives of monks and priests of the Pskov Caves Monastery during the time of the USSR and afterwards, and it varies between amusing accounts of the monks' resistance to the Soviet government to quite mysterious and touching experiences from the life of the author and those he knew. Very comfy read.

>>20451209
It's really great that they sell their books for such low prices, but i think many would be ok with slightly higher costs if they could put more of these modern classics back into print.

>>20447306
ya Book of the New Sun

>>20452580
>>20452580
>How many autocephalous churches are there now?
That doesnt help your argument like you think it does.

>>20450084

It's a very politically inconvenient book for the modern mainstream Orthodox Church, which tries to cover up what the Moscow Patriarchate's past is really like, and by extension, what they are currently like.

>>20452919
>where
In heaven, where else?

>>20454773
>the modern mainstream Orthodox Church
Is a state run propaganda machine. The real Church has long been underground, being persecuted for Christ’s sake just like it was written.

>>20450069
The 4 vol eng set is going for 140 american rubles rn. Yes its worth it

>>20448900
>>20451209
>>20454417
>$40 for the bootleg
this nigger better be donating his profits or something

I'm not Christian myself and never have been. I've been inside of a church once for a wedding services, otherwise as a child my parents never raised me in any religion. When I was younger I was le euphoric atheist like >>20452358 but as I've grown older I've come to see how rudderless that worldview is. I don't think I'll ever be a Christian, it's not in my upbringing to give the Bible any more credence than, say, the Bhagavad Gita or whatever other religious text you want to name. But when I look at what the spread of atheism has led to in society I can't help but feel contempt for it. I'd rather live in a Christian society than an atheist one, because the loss of religiousness in the West truly seems to have unleashed a Pandora's Box of immorality.

Fr. Seraphim Rose's original, uncensored biography, "Not of this World". Transcription available for free here.

http://orthodoxaustralia.org/2022/05/17/not-of-this-world-the-uncensored-life-of-fr-seraphim-rose/

>>20455004
Nothing about my post was atheist, just anti-Christian. There are arguments against Christianity which don't even bother with atheist premises. It is very much under-appreciated how comparatively bizarre Christian mythology is versus that of the Hellenistic pagans. The only real God to ever exist was born of a virgin woman, performed acts of sorcery only seen by poor people and cult members, and was also executed by Italian policemen for being a nuisance. Thereafter he rose from the dead, did not reveal himself to anyone important, and then ascended to heaven to be with his father, who is also himself, because there's only one God and that's him—everyone else is just a demon.

>>20455018
One of my favorite LGBTQ voices

>>20455107
Also the earth is flat, and the holy swastika is proof. Enoch is real. And yes, only true apostolic tradition can lead you on the proper way to God, whom you cant touch coz you’re a filthy sinner

>>20455107
>recommends Nietzsche (atheist)
>recommends Freud (atheist Jew)
>recommends a bunch of secular academic nonsense
“I’m not an atheist, bro!”

>>20447306
No

>>20448900
>At age 22 in 1956 and while he was still at Pomona College, Rose came out as homosexual. During a romantic relationship with Jon Gregerson, Rose was exposed to the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. While the relationship lasted a significant period, Gregerson lost interest in Orthodoxy despite Rose's growing interest. Rose ultimately terminated the relationship and later commented on the period prior his conversion, saying "I was in hell. I know what hell is." Rose is reported to have not externally expressed his sexuality following his conversion.

>>20448900
>>20454986
Is it really bootleg if there's no known copyright?

Since this was originally written in the 300s, I wasn't so sure it would be relevant to me. Instead I loved St. Augustine's style of writing as a prayer to God. It was clear that mankind has not changed. He says the scientists know just about everything there is to learn, and we consider science the same today.

>>20456619
Based prodigal son

>>20456735
>modern man is a fool
>there’s nothing new under the sun
>the early church was always right
Facts

>>20456735
> He says the scientists know just about everything there is to learn, and we consider science the same today.
Lel scientific hubris never changes

bump

>>20456735
>>20457732
>>20459279
Augustine said it 1700 years ago
Dostoevsky said it 150 years ago
sadly, utopianists never learn

>>20448557
Fucking bullshit

>>20447306
Start with the ecumenic literature read the church fathers, Eusebius, Gregor of Nyssa and the desert fathers.

It all comes back to the bible and the church fathers.

I’m sad that online Orthodoxy is so cancerous. But Orthodoxy IRL is amazing

>>20462516 to continue
If you want mysticism start with pseudo-dionysius / Denys the classics of western spirituality is an ok edition.

>>20448557
This is not orthodox, this is straight up heretical garbage.

>>20448557
cringe

a

>>20448135
Maybe, several protestants I know are finding legitimate faith from it though, and I see real potential in it
t. Catholic

>>20447306
I'm an atheist but I need to help op but I need time to find the chart before this thread dies so BUMP

>>20447306
Are you looking for this?

>>20467787
>>20447306
I'm back anon, knock yourself out (the chart was made by an orthodox dude, not me, an atheist. I am merely a master of charts.)