/lit/ - Literature

AAAHHH DONT TREAD ON ME BOURGEOISIE

>>20445579
That's his worst photo ever and it looks an AI reconstruction

>>20445584
I think its literally from the wax museum.

>StonetossTugOfWarHuh.jpg

He means leftist workers, not reactionaries

>>20445647
>leftist
>workers
Pick one and only one. No leftist works.

>>20445689
He called his envisioned vanguard gang "workers".

>>20445689
No no, chudboy. If there are people calling themselves leftist and doing non-leftists things they’re not leftists
Same can be said the other way around. People identifying as rightwing who like leftwing ideas, aren’t actually rightwing. People are deceived as to what thw terms are. Probably best to go without the terms altogether at this point.

What anon above means by reactionaries is the bootlickers. Authoritarian worshipers. You one of those LARPing fascists, anon? Just trying to muddy the water? Ever work a day in your life?

>>20445733
not at all, the members of the vanguard are called communists and they're distinguished from workers

>>20445689
I became a commie because I work full time and can barely afford to pay my rent, which is ironic because you are most likely a neet

>>20445733
>>20445774
the theory of the vanguard party came from the Bolsheviks many years after Marx died

>>20445774
So workers are not communists now? kek

>>20445827
Naw. They’re robots. But the liberals power is falling apart and they’re starting to wake up.
Marxist-Leninists wish to woo them and make them robots again, and the. There’s the fascists who want to make them robots too, just under a slightly different contract.
Then there’s the leftists who want an end of all this robot stuff.

>>20445579

When you see contemporary commies you oughta respect Marx despite not buying his ideology.

A lot of Marxists will joke about guillotines and gulags but if you say "you must be for armed workers then" they suddenly become "Whoa whoa whoa h-haha let's.. not be too extreme.." early 2000s liberals

>>20445784
>I work full time and can barely afford to pay my rent
Have you considered moving to a place with lower taxes?

>>20445841
> Then there’s the leftists who want an end of all this robot stuff.
like who

>>20445579
BASED

>>20446000
Bakunin types. Modern iterations exist. Including uncle Ted fans

>>20445647
>we should give gun licences only to 'workers' and revoke them when they cease to be 'workers'

>>20446035
The contrary is exactly what you want.
We’ve already seen what Napoleon and Hitler did with it. Stop expecting a different outcome

>>20445750
Why does every retarded lefty take devolve into this. "No no no THEY aren't leftists real leftists work and help the working class." "That wasn't REAL socialism it was on the path to being socialism, a real socialist country would be democratic and would never have genocides." "You don't get it REAL leftism is absolutely perfect and everyone would be equal."

According to leftists themselves there has never been a real leftist or real leftist society so why the fuck do you retards still cope about how it's so based, just that no one has tried it yet?

>>20445791
no, it came from Marx and Engels in 1848: https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm
>>20445827
a person can be a communist and a worker, but as a communist they're no longer a worker, but a communist. and as a worker, they aren't automatically a communist.
>>20445898
name a single Marxist who is against armed independent working-class organization
>>20446035
the quote is not about any licenses but about organized workers not ceding their arms. and why are you surprised that communists would ideally want the organized proletariat armed and everyone else disarmed? are you an 8 year old who doesn't know how war works?

>>20446098
Because our own terminologies are used against us. If there’s a guy in a mask setting a building on fire, he’s an arsonist. If the liberal on tv claims he’s an anarchist you believe them? You ever hear of the agent provocateur?
The “wasn’t real socialism” meme. How come you never acknowledge real socialists when they do socialist things? You only notice the liberals socdem or the Bolsheviks authoritarianism. Preferring your own “rightwing” authoritarianism because of its racist streak or its christian monarchist streak, or do you wish for freedom too, and you somehow associated the confederate battle flag with that instead of the real roots of the Appalachian red necks?

>>20445647
>He means leftist
He was above the left-right dichotomy

Whatever, he only wanted people to have guns because he imagined that they will join his "seizing". And no modern leftist or marxist want people to have guns anyways.

>>20446247
If anything he did a huge disservice to gun rights with this retardation. That's how leftism always ends irrespective of stated intentions.

>>20446136
>the quote is not about any licenses but about organized workers not ceding their arms. and why are you surprised that communists would ideally want the organized proletariat armed and everyone else disarmed? are you an 8 year old who doesn't know how war works?
How the fuck are you going to give guns to workers but not allow anyone else to have them?

Marx is wrong. The working class is dangerous

>>20446141
Enlighten us on the real socialists doing real socialist things please.

>>20445784
Have you considered living within your means and not consuming product? Pink collar service jobs are not working class, they are underclass and lumpenproletariat and should be condemned.

I think it's funny conservatives have been sharing this around lately. Like "oooh CHECKMATE you leftist fruitcakes!"

Well, maybe. But if I was a rightist, I wouldn't be citing Marx as a textual authority on anything if I were you. Why are they doing this? It seems short-sighted... but that's typical of conservatives. If anything, the fact that they feel compelled to do this is a good sign for Marxists. But I can't stop Tim Pool from doing it.

https://youtu.be/cxWh_oHgqxI

>>20446310
Bait.

>>20446321
Let's get this trending hurrrrrr!!!

>>20446333
You have to get off twitter buddeh, fighting a crusade on the internet is insane

>>20446310
>Bring in millions of unskilled workers
>Wonder why wages are depressed
>It's the riches fault for using the increased surplus labor we campaigned for
>Still campaign for open borders and more surplus labor

Class collaboration under national-ethnic government is the only way to resolve this situation we find ourselves in. You can't force people to care for people different to them, the natural inclination is to compete and defeat them. Near-kin can work together, this is why families and villages and towns are able to remain clean, safe, comfortable and prosperous.

>>20445596
It is. Anon has spent so much time inside he has forgotten what real flesh looks like on the face of another man.

>>20446352
But that is what rightoids literally do.

>>20446310
I'm a fascist and I love Marx. I talk about Marx all the time. It's a great way to talk more sincere communists into considering syndicalism/Sorelianism and eventually fascism. They're particularly open to this these days because they're drowning in insincere trannies and champagne socialists who don't know the first thing about Marxism.

>>20446352
I'm just sitting here. It's just an absurd situation to me where there's another massacre in the United States and people who would probably pitch their whole theory of politics against Karl Marx are like "well KARL MARX said..."

That's a little strange, don't you think?

>>20446379
George Lincoln Rockwell supported the Vietnam War and was gunned down by one of his own followers so I'm not trusting him in the strategy department. If you want to follow people like that, be my guest.

>>20446379
>open borders still an issue
>even though we’re getting tighter borders in bipartisan cooperation
You people are so dumb

>>20446396
There's also upward pressure on wages happening and the Fed is blaming that for inflation (as right-wing governments always do) so "we've gotta get those wages down" by inducing a recession.

>>20446391
If you want to convince them to volunteer for the Azov Battalion or die in a war with China in 10 years then it's your funeral... and theirs.

>>20446393
>George Lincoln Rockwell supported the Vietnam War and was gunned down by one of his own followers so I'm not trusting him in the strategy department. If you want to follow people like that, be my guest.

Was a Commander in the US navy, he was gunned down by a marxist, as is typical for when people reject there ideology. Had he continued I think the US would of been a better place.

>>20446424
>John Patler, who had been expelled by Rockwell from his party in March 1967 for repeated attempts to inject Marxist ideas into party publications, was convicted of the murder in December 1967, and sentenced to 20 years in prison.
To me, it sounds like this guy >>20446391 shot your boy. It sounds like your beef is with him.

>>20446396
No amount of evasiveness is ever going to remove the left's sin of unqualifiedly supporting open borders neoliberalism, and thus collaborated with capital. The coming revival of working class consciousness will remember that shit for a century.

>>20446393
Marx was right about a lot of things, but he was wrong about a lot of things too. He was also an idiosyncratic dick and an autist, which is cool but made his legacy to the left ambiguous. A lot of patchwork had to be done to appropriate Marxism for the Bolshevist interpretation of Marx, which failed miserably.

Rockwell is okay. You shouldn't focus too much on "personalities." It's easy to tell you have the social media generation mental illness of interpreting everything through the lens of "the struggle" (the crusade, as the other anon called it), because you respond with UMMM AND RIGHT-WINGERS DON'T DO THAT TOO?? OKAY SWEETIE? "Right-wingers" are neither a collective nor the collective enemy of your collective. You being a dummy is you being a dummy regardless of whether "the struggle" continues on twitter today.

>>20446422
Further proof. Your mind is in "own the libs" mode but for right-wing chuds. It's stereotyping your thinking and turning it into a series of childless reflexes based on easily recognizable symbols, even when the symbols don't go together. Next you'll be talking about Jordan Peterson.

>>20446424
atleast money is real biological race is now understood to be bullshit

>>20446391
But, fascists are akin to champagne socialists

>>20446450
>childless
Sorry I meant childish, when talking to leftists I guess I just assume they're childless as well since they hate everything natural.

One again Marx is wrong about everything. Reminder that he never had a job

>>20446379
>Class collaboration
Rockwell wasn't a Fascist in any sense of the word, he was simply reacting to the Civil rights plan to kill off federalism and any self sufficiently in place for a progressive statist project controlled by a few distant elites in Washington D.C.

Also Corporatism is the 'end goal' of Fascism, 'class collaboration' isn't btw. People confuse the two. Every 'socialist' country which has ever existed was in fact corporatist. Corporatism for Fascism is simply the recognition of the reality that the 'economy' is not something static like what most Right wingers believe. The Doctrine of corporatism was instated to reduce the marginalization of any one class' interests while increasing the productive forces in a way in which the state deemed to be desirable. The end goal of course being a developed and modern Italy. It was very successful, the government would embark itself in the establishment of 436km of highways, 5160km of electricity lines, 22,800km of railways, and the design and advancement of technological goods that were ahead of its time.

alt right is a major glow-op:

https://medium.com/@MKultrawoke/the-truth-about-the-alt-right-a-destruction-by-facts-and-logic-e3d07f27e8cb

>>20446098
>>20446141
leftism goes against human nature and is therefore inherently evil. Confronted with this undeniable truth the brainwashed leftist that believes this ideology to be something perfect and immutable much like the muslim does for the Quran, breaks down and dissociates with reality. A perfect system cannot be wrong, therefore the wrongdoers are not true adherents of the system. The ideological purity spiral is inevitable

>>20446450
I think you're projecting the leftist in your head onto me and then arguing with it in this thread with "collective enemy of our collective" stuff. But I understand the appeal of this kind of attempt to appropriate "Marxism" as a boutique thing now that right-wing politics doesn't seem so attractive. This "coming revival of working class consciousness" also sounds pretty abstract and up in the clouds. I'd put more stock in what people are doing in the real world, and the Azov guys seem like pretty serious "Nazis" or whatever you want to call them, but most of them just got wiped out by the Russian army. The proof is in the pudding.

>>20446433
It is difficult to work out if people are retarded online, if they act retarded and slam random words together i'm going to assume they're acting in bad faith or are an idiot.

The modern "leftist" support of open borders and anti-white racial politics convinced me that these people are my enemies and that I should never support them for any reason.

>>20445784
Whose fault is that? Maybe if you didn't go for school for liberal arts you wouldn't have such a shit job

test

>>20446455
Money is increasingly not real, there is nothing backing it. We can identify biological origins and ethnic identify from little more than a scrap of bone.

>>20446475
There’s tons of historical and anthropological work showing that we do in fact want to live free of 5is “civilizational” cage. So no, leftism is the core of human nature, which is why you can’t snuff us out without a nuclear war.

>>20446457
Not really. Fascists created the only successful socialist states, which means national socialist states. Modern leftism, given infinite freedom to say and do whatever it wanted, embedded itself deeper and deeper in the bourgeois state and its elite institutions (universities) and abandoned socio-economic justice concerns for making sure the bourgeois welfare state gives upper middle class trannies free genital mutilation when they're 9. Modern leftism is a conclusively failed ideology, it is the most bourgeois thing that ever happened in history. There is no distinction between it and progressive bourgeois values, it is the vanguard of those values.

Highly recommend anybody reading this thread to check out these articles about fascist and national socialist economics and the rebellion against Anglo finance/capital/usury:
https://counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

>>20446475
Leftism only goes against human nature when it insists on crypto-Rousseauist internationalist utopias that can never happen, and thus justifies perpetual war against everything that is good and normal (like peoples, cultures, languages, genders). Today's tranny leftists are the logical conclusion of the nihilistic internationalist fixation of what was formerly a minority of deracinated, nationless leftists who didn't give a fuck about real people or reality in general because they were "from nowhere" and didn't care about the consequences of their beliefs "for" any particular place. Today's tranny academic is the heir of the effete cosmopolitan journalist of the 19th century writing about how everybody should be just as effete and cosmopolitan as them. Believe in nothing, be nothing, live only to consume.

>>20446483
The Azov guys are alright sometimes, I like Olena Semenyaka, their international secretary. I do think practical, on the ground nationalism has to flourish in order for it to unite with the new social question and become national socialism. Azov and Semenyaka also do work with the Intermarium guys, who are at least dreaming of a revived continentalist alternative to Anglo finance and Russian "Eurasianist" imperialism.

>The proof is in the pudding
Russia proved it's as incompetent as America at swinging its dick around in countries actually willing to fight back. Neither NATO globohomo imperialism nor Russian "Eurasian" globohomo imperialism is a viable model anymore. The world is about to become a hard place, or rather a series of very hard places, because only hardened people will survive. Failed Nintendo militaries like the USA and USSR that can't even prosecute a successful small war are on the way out.

>>20446487
I'm just saying, the guy who shot George Lincoln Rockwell was a member of his organization who Rockwell expelled for -- apparently -- trying to introduce "Marxist" ideas into the American Nazi Party. Frankly, it sounds like he was some Strasserist type but the irony is that he shot the Fuhrer rather than the other way around. It's dialectics: everything turns into its opposite eventually.

Since the /leftypol/ concern troll is obsessed with Rockwell, here are some reading materials on Rockwell:
>an essay by Rockwell himself on how he discovered the Jewish issue (showing he was not an "intellectual" per se but generally practical)
https://counter-currents.com/2013/02/george-lincoln-rockwell-discovers-the-jewish-problem/
>some good articles on him
https://counter-currents.com/2017/06/a-nearly-right-study-of-rockwell/
https://counter-currents.com/2013/03/rockwell-as-conservative/

>>20446509
Yes but that doesn't mean race is real. Being of such and such a place doesn't stop me from procreating with another people, race is pure idealism whereas money empowers me.

>>20446562
>Spengler asserts that democracy is simply the political weapon of money, and the media are the means through which money operates a democratic political system. The thorough penetration of money's power throughout a society is yet another marker of the shift from Culture to Civilization.

>Democracy and plutocracy are equivalent in Spengler's argument. The "tragic comedy of the world-improvers and freedom-teachers" is that they are simply assisting money to be more effective. The principles of equality, natural rights, universal suffrage, and freedom of the press are all disguises for class war (the bourgeois against the aristocracy). Freedom, to Spengler, is a negative concept, simply entailing the repudiation of any tradition. In reality, freedom of the press requires money, and entails ownership, thus serving money at the end. Suffrage involves electioneering, in which the donations rule the day. The ideologies espoused by candidates, whether Socialism or Liberalism, are set in motion by, and ultimately serve, only money. "Free" press does not spread free opinion—it generates opinion, Spengler maintains.

>Spengler admits that in his era money has already won, in the form of democracy. But in destroying the old elements of the Culture, it prepares the way for the rise of a new and overpowering figure: the Caesar. Before such a leader, money collapses, and in the Imperial Age the politics of money fades away.

>As soon as the election process becomes organized by political leaders, to the extent that money allows, the vote ceases to be truly significant. It is no more than a recorded opinion of the masses on the organizations of government over which they possess no positive influence whatsoever.

>Spengler notes that the greater the concentration of wealth in individuals, the more the fight for political power revolves around questions of money. One cannot even call this corruption or degeneracy, because this is in fact the necessary end of mature democratic systems.

>On the subject of the press, Spengler is equally contemptuous. Instead of conversations between men, the press and the "electrical news-service keep the waking-consciousness of whole people and continents under a deafening drum-fire of theses, catchwords, standpoints, scenes, feelings, day by day and year by year." Through the media, money is turned into force—the more spent, the more intense its influence.

>The only force which can counter money, in Spengler's estimation, is blood.

>>20446535
If you ask me, my theory of Azov is that they're basically the pointy tip of the NATO spear, conviently implanted in Mariupol where there was enough local anti-Maidan sentiment for these blackshirts to be useful keeping suppressed, while far enough away from Kiev to not cause too many problems, but close *enough* to keep pressure on anyone in the government considering a reapproachment with the Russians. The well-funded NGOs and Sorosbucks funding the liberal elements of the government are the other side of the coin and also giving something for the Azov guys to rail against so they can present themselves as the "authentic" nationalist force in the country while arrayed against the Russian orcs on the other side of the border. But they were never acting according to their own ideological agenda, however much they convinced themselves of that while having their wizard sparkle magic parties in the woods.

>>20446496
If you say this the only response you'll ever get is some gaslighting bullshit about how they don't actually support those things.

>>20446577
Everybody uses everybody else. I don't know much about Azov so I am not in a good position to defend them. But I always tend to look for what the people on the ground are doing and thinking. For example when I look at normiecon Trump voters I see people who have been brainwashed, often simply through lack of alternatives, to spout libertarian and "the left are the real racists" platitudes. On the surface this is upsetting. But underneath that I see basically normal, healthy people who are fully capable of understanding primordial human issues like
>freaks and parasites are invading your home
>trannies mutilating children is bad for reasons that don't need to be rationally "proved"
>degeneracy is bad
>overeducated "experts" are raping you and your family of your patrimony
>there are whole groups of people who want you disenfranchised and even dead, but also think they're legally entitled to live alongside you and leech your tax dollars from you, does that make sense?
>all the people who run your country and monopolize its best positions and have the most public prestige hate you and openly insult you for wanting to preserve your way of life
>etc.

History moves quickly, all it takes is one cataclysm to turn normiecons into something else, because their core is strong. But when I look at leftists, no matter how radical and explicitly political they are at the surface, I see people with rich dads grandstanding, I see trannies and other self-indulgent degenerates, I see people who couldn't either do anything themselves or convince anyone to follow them in doing something.

>>20446268
to cede means to give up something you already have
>>20446379
wages are being depressed because the worker's wage is a deduction from the profit of capital. this is a law of the capitalist mode of production that can only be done away together with that mode of production itself. yet class collaboration is a means of preserving that mode of production.
>>20446391
>They're particularly open to this these days because they're drowning in insincere trannies and champagne socialists who don't know the first thing about Marxism.
sounds about right. one can only be "open to syndicalism/Sorelianism and eventually fascism" if one's understanding of Marxism comes entirely from leftist retards don't know the first thing about it
>>20446461
he did have a job

>>20445784
If rent is that expensive then the housing market needs to be deregulated so that people can build more apartment buildings so that the supply will increase so that the price will decrease.

>>20446632
>Just two more centuries of the invisible hand of the market fixing everything!
"No"

>>20446632
>houses constantly being built
>prices still going up

Something isn't adding up here.

>>20446637
I work in a company that produces certain building materials and work has been abnormally slow lately, so I don't think construction is going at the same pace it usually is.

>>20446305
Does "pink" collar mean sex work?

>>20446610
>For example when I look at normiecon Trump voters I see people who have been brainwashed
I don't think people are "brainwashed" in the main. I don't think "brainwashing" is really a thing. I think it's more like... propaganda works by giving people a license to go on believing what they already wanted to believe, because it coheres with their lifestyles, and because thinking differently would create cognitive dissonance, which is unpleasant, because it'd make them feel bad, and listening to what's being told to them through cable news or in the New York Times is the optimal survival strategy, and it works by repetition. People are lazy, morally flawed, etc. but generally normal and intelligent in various ways. You were able to break through the propaganda barrier after all (in your particular manner), but are you really more intelligent or wise than the average person? If you are, wow! We're really lucky to have you posting here on /lit/! But the truth is that you're probably as normal as them and they could break out of it too, if they really wanted to.

>History moves quickly, all it takes is one cataclysm to turn normiecons into something else, because their core is strong ... But when I look at leftists, no matter how radical and explicitly political they are at the surface, I see people with rich dads grandstanding
There's a problem for any political movement that relies mainly on students, but I think that requires a certain level of middle-class stability and comfort to produce and keep stable. Material conditions.

>>20446632
>If rent is that expensive then the housing market needs to be deregulated
The problem IMO is really monopoly finance capital (Blackstone, Berkshire Hathaway etc.). Developers and landlords compete with each other, but the number of banks and REITs and so forth they rely on to finance their efforts are relatively limited. The main question though, is why would they build so much that housing prices go down? They fret about this kind of "overbuilding" all the time in their trade publications. But this is a key difference between Marxists (and classical economists, not just Marxists) and neoclassical supply-siders, as the former would say that production drives the economy. But in a capitalist framework, it's production-for-profit and these developers and landlords are either highly leveraged or have a fiduciary obligation to their investors to deliver a return. Basically you need to decommodify housing so they're places for people to live in, not for speculation.

>>20446632
once rents for the workers go down, the wages will be allowed to lag behind inflation until the gains from lower rents are cancelled. deregulation of the housing market is not a policy to help workers but a policy to help industrial capitalist capture profits from rent seekers. that's why neolibs jerk to it so much

>>20446500

>>20446568
Yeah, and blood fails automatically because it's pseudoscience. It's a cope to justify whites privileged financial position in society due to colonialism and slavery or to divide and conquer the proletariat much like how the Nazi say the Jews use their own mythology as a raision d'etre to benefit themselves at the expense of gentiles. But even if we lived in pure 'ethnostates' someone would have to do the labouring and are the bourgeoisie in that society suddenly going to cease profiting at that societies expense? No. They're just going to use the race ideology to keep their wageslaves in check.

>>20446098
Marcuse to Adorno in 1969: On ‘left fascism’: of course I have not forgotten that there are dialectical contradictions—but I have also not forgotten that not all contradictions are dialectical—some are simply wrong. The (authentic) left is not able to transform itself into the Right.
So, the left is the authentic left when it acts perfectly, but when it doesn't, it is something else.

>>20445579
You guys know that nuance exists? You don’t have to agree 100% or disagree 100% with a writer.

>>20446391
>I'm a fascist and I love Marx. I talk about Marx all the time
You're a larper and most likely a fed.

>>20446455
>atleast money is real
We're just saying any damn thing now with that crazy inflation.
Just call the people you disagree with retards and move on.

>>20446726
>blood fails automatically because it's pseudoscience
>t. marxist
>It's a cope to justify whites privileged financial position in society
So race suddenly exists?
>or to divide and conquer the proletariat
I don't see why you NEED races to live together in order to overthrow "capital". Aren't all revolutions supposed to happen in the context of their nations? Separating races seems like the easiest way to neuter this "race ideology" at the root then.
>But even if we lived in pure 'ethnostates' someone would have to do the labouring
Nobody claimed otherwise.
>are the bourgeoisie in that society suddenly going to cease profiting at that societies expense
The burgeoisie is going to exist in order to develop the means of production and until they're overthrown whether you want it or not, ethnostates would not inherently be an obstacle.
>are the bourgeoisie in that society suddenly going to cease profiting at that societies expense
Against non-existent minorities? Are you Jewish?

>>20446535
Marxism is Jewish resentment against aristocratic class, wealth and values. Fascists did not create successful states. That's why they are no longer around. As soon as the fascists went to war - they were caved in. Socialism is a meaningless buzzword; fascist politics, like socialist politics, is entirely opportunistic. You do not have any concrete policies or ideas. Nor do you live in reality because you keep talking about a movement that failed, and that longer exists. You live inside of your head instead of the real world. You are just a crypto-commie. You spend all your time online, on twitter and on discord. You don't have charisma, you can't build a movement, and you have no means to even fight or compete with the current status quo. The only thing you can do is regurgitate garbage from pseuds on twitter, and pretend you're relevant in this world when you're not. You don't talk to working class people, you don't do anything help working class people, but you do everything socialists do - you complain after complain. You're weak, and your only use to the world would be you turning into fertilizer.

>>20446509
Money is real, retard. Money is being worth less doesn't mean its not less real you fucking fascist retard. Money is worth less because of inflation because demand shocks from people having too much money, and not making enough supply, makes it worth less. Money simply represents demand in the market. You are so retarded. You can not get rid of money; without money, people would have to go back to bartering which would make us much poorer since we would not have any form of equivalent exchange. People in society would have less choices on what they could get for themselves. You don't know anything about economics, which shows, you're probably one those dumbass commies who switched to be an internet fascist from and an internet commie because you still don't have a job and want an excuse not having one besides a bum who doesn't want to work. Being a fascist allows you blame people who clearly genetically superior to you because they can actually get mates, get laid, and make a family unlike your worthless ass.

>>20446568
The idea that money has only been a political weapon since democracy is ridiculous and retarded. Money has been power in every civilization and always will be. Blood can't counter money because people sell out their own blood for money all the time. Human greed is not stopped by "blood."

>>20445689
>No leftist works.
Imagine being this locked into your own bubble. Anon, you instantly outed yourself as being completely disconnected from the real world.

so what's the solution?
this kind of raceless, sexles,s genderless, pseudo-identity political bullshit pushed by capitalists posing as leftists (which makes up at least 95% of post-Marxist theorists anyway) has proven as retarded as violence through racism and fascism.
teaching financial literacy to the lower class seems to be as effective, if not more than arming the people with firearms and weapons, no?

>>20445937
>Oy Vey goyim, it's just those pesky taxes, ignore the fact that wages have been stagnant for 50 years please!

>>20446782
>I don't see why you NEED races to live together in order to overthrow "capital". Aren't all revolutions supposed to happen in the context of their nations? Separating races seems like the easiest way to neuter this "race ideology" at the root then.
A few years ago, there was this "leaked" Amazon "study" that claimed that more diverse workplaces were less likely to unionize. And I remember that being shared around by the same sort of people who try to guile socialists into a white nationalist ideology that you need racial segregation / separation to have a socialist revolution. But then an Amazon warehouse unionized in Staten Island which is a pretty diverse place and that victory seemed pretty empowering for the people who did it. So maybe the obvious answer is that what Amazon said is simply wrong, or was just not true and that bosses lie in order to demoralize their workers. Why wouldn't they? They lie to regulators, they lie to their customers, they lie to their employees. So don't trust them.

Anyhow I think generally Marxists will say that race is a contradiction (or like a "secondary" contradiction) that can be exploited to divide people along sectional lines, like bosses putting Spanish-speaking workers together in a separate department and then telling them (in Spanish) that they shouldn't trust the Anglos. The problem with this postmodern left-liberal kind of politics, on the other hand, is that it attacks class-centric politics by seeing other "equally important issues" as the same, which effectively makes them the most important issues. But if you were a communist organizer, it wouldn't make sense to disregard racism as a fake problem, instead it would need a materialist interpretation rooted in class concepts rather than an idealist one rooted in the realm of "ideas" while repeating whatever liberals say about race / gender and what conservatives say about national questions.

There's also a class reason for this with left-liberals orienting their politics at universities or in media (intelligentsia) and not in actual workplaces where people... work. Together. In a workplace. Which they still do. And you see other manifestations with left-liberals, some whom even describe themselves as anti-capitalists, capitulating to what rightists call NATO globhomo or whatever (with more advanced gender equality) overcoming "reactionary" or "conservative" nation-states without any understanding of the underlining political economy at work.

>>20446098
In my discussion with rightoids, it always boils down to "that's not a REAL free market" or "monopolies only form because of the government". I have news for you, people in general are retarded, on both sides of politics

>>20446857
Was haven't been stagnate for 50 years... that's a meme pushed by Soros.

>>20445784
You can end up a commie OR a fascist, or who knows whatever the fuck after realizing the economy sucks. Obviously we need to come up with a solution but acting like the solution is obvious hence communism is going to lead to work problems and violence when implanted

>>20446870
You are wrong.

>>20446865
>muh both sides
booklet detected

>>20445750
>>20446729
Yeah but that practically means nothing. In the common parlance it is what are you general beliefs on certain things, to say "yeah he campaigned for leftist ideals and policies his whole life but when they all led to him rounding those people up in camps he was not a leftist."

Its a slimey use of words, meant to obfuscate rather than exchange ideas

>>20446865
So you've got the answer on a golden plate but refuse to accept it because reasons. Now, that's retardation.

>>20446875
>Both sides genuinely share a characteristic
>Retard applies a retarded meme to dismiss it
Found one of the retards I was talking about!

>>20446858
>So maybe the obvious answer is that what Amazon said is simply wrong, or was just not true and that bosses lie in order to demoralize their workers.
Or maybe less likely doesn't mean impossible you fucking retard. They probably looked at overal coparable workplaces with the main difference being diverse and non-diverse and then could come to the conclusion that it was the case. For that one diverse Amazon warehouse countless others are still not unionized.

>>20446726
>pseudoscience
>bourgeois standard of rationality
>"Ummmm sweetie? Trust the experts?"
How un-Marxist

>>20446814
Spengler is drawing on Plato's cyclical model as he himself has a cyclical model. He's saying that the mass-manipulating (demotic) phase is dominated by distributed oligarchies, not by singularly visible aristocracies (like a warrior aristocracy for example that has to exercise its social function openly and daily) but elites who rule through "soft" power. This causes a gradual dilution and stultification of the masses until they can no longer even be manipulated through their desires, but begin to crave order, especially to undo the social chaos and decay caused by the general dissolution of the people. The craving for order is satisfied by the assertion of a primordial order, understood as a "return" to primordial order that was always there, by some kind of larger than life world-historical figure, a Caesar or a Napoleon. Gramsci called them "men of destiny," in a negative light because for him they were dangerous distractions from praxis and not engines of praxis like they are for the fascist.

Heidegger's appreciation of Hitler took place in the same light. He didn't really care about the man as a contingent human being, but what the man evidently could do: turn a sloppy dissolute Weimar republic into an energized, buzzing collective with a shared sense of destiny and purpose. This is also expressed well by Ezra Pound:
>London stank of decay back before 1914 and I have recorded the feel of it in a poem here and there. The live man in a modern city feels this sort of thing or perceives it as the savage perceives in the forest. I don’t know how many men keep alive in modern civilization but when one has the frankness to compare notes one finds that the intuition is confirmed just as neatly or almost as neatly as if the other man saw a shop sign.

>Thus London going mouldy back in say 1912 or 1911. After the War death was all over it. Italy was, on the other hand, full of bounce. I said all of this to a Lombard writer. I said: London is dead, Paris is tired, but here the place is alive. What they don’t know is plenty, but there is some sort of animal life here. If you put an idea into these people they would DO something.
>The Lombard writer said yes ... and looked across the hotel lobby; finally he said: “And you know it is terrible to be surrounded by all this energy and ... and ... not to have an idea to put into it.”

Fascism is just the formalization of the principle that "bounce" always exists and is always a force capable of arresting and reversing decay, and that for some reason the universe has seen fit to imbue singular individuals at key moments in history with the power to channel and give form to this "bounce."

>>20446879
In a free market, capital centralizes. Centralized capital works towards a monopoly, which even Adam Smith asserted is the goal of every company. Monopolies form through the operation of the free market. Hell, there are things which are natural monopolies from the start like utilities and infrastructure!

>>20446888
>For that one diverse Amazon warehouse countless others are still not unionized.
For now. The people we're talking about fight to win.

>>20446874
Wages haven't been stagnate for 50 years... that's a meme pushed by Soros.
https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/stagnant-wages-what-the-data-show
https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/productivity-and-compensation-growing-together
https://www.aspeninstitute.org/longform/expanding-economic-opportunity-for-more-americans/the-link-between-wages-and-productivity-is-strong/
That graph is made up. You can tell its bullshit because wages aren't the same as worker compensation. Many of those graphs only count wage workers, wage workers aren't the only types of employment in the economy, (salary and self employed workers exist), and they also use a faulty inflation measure. You're cooking the numbers. I'm a conservative, I don't fall for bullshit like you do, commie.

>>20446890
>Fascism is just the formalization of the principle that "bounce" always exists ... and that for some reason the universe has seen fit to imbue singular individuals at key moments in history with the power to channel and give form to this "bounce."
https://youtu.be/hR-NXv5Tma0?t=74

>>20446899
Your graph proves my point, compensation has grown around 11% according to that, and the only way to make it go up is to use an index which basically shows that things have gotten cheaper. My point stands that wages are stagnant.

>>20446890
Spengler has no idea what he's talking about, and you're just doing sophistry. I don't really care so much about what philosophers say because they're just professional bullshiters who live inside their head and not in the real world. You're just wasting my time.

>>20446899
>>20446909
Also, if you include things like housing, education, healthcare, and transportation, workers are actually WORSE off today than in past decades. Source is Oren Cass, former economic advisor to Mitt Romney

>>20446909
>Your graph proves my point
Are you illiterate? It literally does not. It shows you can just get any number you want depending on the metholdogy you use to gain the numbers. The wages have been stagnate for decades meme is entirely propaganda. You can not claim your findings are legitimate when they can be manipulated based on assumptions.

>>20446858
The leftist hatred of nationalism and particularism is a total red herring, a psyop by liberal governments trying to turn all workers' rights activists into feckless retards with pie-in-the-sky dreams of a spontaneous international utopia, so they never pragmatically organize. Unfortunately, here in the real world, pragmatic organizing is entirely predicated on a single principle: YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU ALLY WITH, ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING, IN ORDER TO ALLY WITH THEM.

In past times, socialists understood this instinctively (because they weren't retards yet), so they understood that nationalism is either incidental to socialism, or it is actively beneficial in promoting socialism, because feelings for national unity and collective service for the common good are easily dovetailed with socialist sentiments. Rockwell said:
>A conservative is one who wants to conserve his money. A national socialist is one who wants to conserve his race.
Race here simply means people. In practice, anarchism also coincides with this sentiment because it believes that once the bourgeois state is destroyed, natural primal communities will manifest themselves (aka, nations, peoples, volker).

Leftists can ultimately disagree that the nation is the ultimate principle of politics, WITHOUT foregoing strategic alliances in the here-and-now with nationalists. But today's leftists are all over-educated Yale Journalism majors who have to hold their nose when they talk to a real worker, or even consider the possibility of praxis (working with what you have).

>>20446912
If you don't read things, you won't understand them. I don't care what you have to say about something you didn't read.

>>20446917
Your graph LITERALLY shows COMPENSATION has grown 11%. Those other lines are price index you absolute reprobate, as in, things have gotten cheaper but people's wages have barely moved. Holy shit, try understanding your own material before posting.

>>20446891
None of this ever happened without governmental enforcement of monopolies; it's theoretical babbling.
Economists have identifies one historical case of a true natural monopoly, that was a De Beers control of a diamond market.
Gaberments are charging a true monopoly price for fighting boogieman which doesn't even exist. They fucking CREATE monopolies with their regulation.

>>20446925
>None of this ever happened without governmental enforcement of monopolies
When has there ever been free market operation without government? You are literally the equivalent to a communist, you're just saying "true free markets have never been tried".

>>20446916
>include things like housing, education, healthcare, and transportation, workers are actually WORSE off today
Again, that's wrong, since consumption per capita of durable commodities have increased since the 1950s. People own more cars, houses, fridges and food than any time in American history. The poor literally does not exist in America. Your arguments are just schemes to make the state to subsidize your already decadent and hedonistic life style.
>Fortysix percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a threebedroom house with oneandahalf baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
>Seventysix percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
>Nearly threequarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.
>Seventyeight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
>Seventythree percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.
The idea that people are poor when they have so much shit in their house is utter bullshit. Entitlement spending is most of debt and federal spending.

>>20446899
>>20446874
you are both wrong. the wage share is constrained to a rather narrow range, around 40-60% (see How Labor Powers the Global Economy by Farjoun, Machover and Zachariah). in Marxist terms this means a rate of exploitation of 66-150%. of course (in natura) productivity goes up, that's a feature of capitalism. wages staying about the same adjusted for inflation is also expected. the graph can't really be measuring "productivity" in money since that would imply the wage share decreasing (RoE increasing), which we don't see

>>20446396
>even though we’re getting tighter borders
lol tell me more about this fantasy world youre living in

>>20446938
>People own more cars, houses, fridges and food
And education and housing are out of reach of more Americans now than any time in the past 50 years. You seem to think the ability to buy up cheaply made Asian trinkets while paying exorbitant rent is a suitable replacement for being an educated land owner

>>20446922
It doesn't say that, retard, its comparing how methodology can be manipulated. Wages aren't stagnate if you include self employed productivity and use the correct consumption and output price deflators. You are a dumbass that can't even read graphs correctly. Leftists are so stupid. Please, learn how to read a graph.

>>20446945
Actually, no, because the amount of people going to college has dramatically increased since the 1950s. More people own homes since the 1950s. More people own cares since the 1950s. This is the typical socialist trite and lies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CryZCP6BpO4

>>20446899
>that's a meme pushed by Soros
Why would Soros push that? He is pozzed but he is still a capitalist

>>20446920
>Unfortunately, here in the real world, pragmatic organizing is entirely predicated on a single principle: YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE PERSON YOU ALLY WITH, ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING, IN ORDER TO ALLY WITH THEM.
Yes, I agree. But again, in terms of real-world practice, let's say you're trying to organize a warehouse with hundreds or thousands of workers. Of course people are going to have all kinds of different opinions about things, but you want everyone to sign that union card at the end of the day. Some of them will be white, black, brown and purple and foreign born and native born if it's on the scale of a massive warehouse in Staten Island. There's a particular task here, and if you have white nationalist views, well, the task of the organizer will be to convince you to join the union anyways while out in the parking lot every day at lunchtime grilling and that grub is on the house. Some of those guys might be black, some of them white, maybe a Vietnamese guy out there too. So are you in, or not? That's just an example.

>Race here simply means people. In practice, anarchism also coincides with this sentiment
Well, I don't think highly of anarchism.

>>20446936
There have been countless _sectors_ of the economy which weren't regulated and they always outperform everything else.
A few years ago both the cheapest and the fastest internet in the Western world was in Romania - the reason was that the Romanian gaberment didn't manage to solve the _problem_ of running water for their citizens yet so the internet was completely unregulated with countless firms offering ISP services - like if it was selling carrots and onions.

>>20446809
>Money previously made and stamped from a precious material. Typically gold or silver, occasionally copper or bronze.
>Remove precious metal from coinage supply because impractical
>Have paper money and coins that stand in for the same value
>Can take these notes in to a bank and exchange it for the current of precious metal the currency is based on
>Disconnect currency from precious commodity
>Now money is valuable because group of people say it is valuable
>Nothing supports the money being valuable, have no commodity or desirable material that represents value attached to the currency
>Casually point that the current money is not real as it has nothing attached to its exchange
>Realize that it is all paper with drawings on with no intrinsic

>Being a fascist allows you blame people who clearly genetically superior to you because they can actually get mates, get laid, and make a family unlike your worthless ass.
It is regrettable you think this way, but that is not why I am what you say I am. The worse society becomes, the more we are attacked and blamed, the more people will see no reason to maintain the charade. Soon the things will change, it is hard to deny the parallels between now and Wiemar Germany.

>>20446954
What you describe is precisely why immigration is a capitalist position, because in such a factory, simply put, nobody is going to sign that union card at the end of the day and nobody historically has. Socialism dies under "multiculturalism." It's a scam, it's all scab labor.

This used to be obvious when people could still concretely SEE the impact of it, because they lived in relatively homogeneous states in some kind of social equilibrium, and suddenly a skein of capitalists would start importing a bunch of depressed labor from a shitty neighboring country to circumvent local unions or something. Then everybody would obviously say, "we should prevent them from replacing us."

Now everybody's head is in some faggoty daydream about the abstract theoretical universal solidarity of all workers, therefore, who cares if we actually prevent the destruction of all unionization capacity at home today by allowing another two million slaves willing to work for peanuts to flood across the border.

>>20446966
Good post
>Prof. A. J. P. Taylor, the eminent British historian, and hardly a Nazi sympathizer, writes:
>"Fascism, it was claimed, represented the last aggressive stage of capitalism in decline, and its momentum could be sustained only by war. There was an element of truth in this, but not much. The full employment which Nazi Germany was the first European country to possess, depended in large part on the production of armaments; but it could have been provided equally well (and was to some extent) by other forms of public works from roads to great buildings. The Nazi secret was not armament production; it was freedom from the then orthodox principles of economics . . . the argument for war did not work even if the Nazi system had relied on armaments production alone. Nazi Germany was not choking in a flood of arms. On the contrary, the German Generals insists unanimously in 1939 that they were not equipped for war and that many years must pass before “rearmament in depth” had been completed."

>Hitler next explained precisely the foundations of the new economic and financial system:

>"If ever need makes humans see clearly it has made the German people do so. Under the compulsion of this need we have learned in the first place to take full account of the most essential capital of a nation, namely, its capacity to work. All thoughts of a gold reserves and foreign exchange fade before the industry and efficiency of well-planned national productive resources. We can smile today at an age when economists were seriously of the opinion that the value of currency was determined by the reserves of gold and foreign exchange lying in the vaults of the national banks and, above all, was guaranteed by them. Instead of that we have learned to realize that the value of a currency lies in a nation’s power of production, that an increasing volume of production sustains a currency, and could possibly raise its value, whereas a decreasing production must, sooner or later, lead to a compulsory devaluation."

>>20446899 - this graph isn't the same as this >>20446874 graph which shows stagnation. You retard, >>20446899 shows there is no stagnation, and merely changing the methodology gives you the wrong metric. Wages are not the same as real worker compensation. Wages and worker income are not the same. Retard, real worker compensation measures healthcare benefits, stock options, paid time off, education assistance and retirement savings + wages. When you include those benefits, that employers take out of their paycheck to provide, worker compensation has not staged with productivity. Again, you are very dumb and have no idea what you are talking about. Please, before you talk about economics - learn the differences between a real wages and real compensation. These are terms you clearly do not understand.
>>20446940
>Real household income has increased since the 1950s
>Disposable household income has increased since the 1950s
>Personal consumption has increased since the 1950s
Like again, your arguments are just not empirically true whatosever. You're just repeating propaganda from George Soros funded, liberal think thanks. None of it has any bearing on reality.

>>20446966
Its not regrettable. You're just a pseud all philosophers are. I don't care what Spengler said because none of his claims are scientific. Like Marx, he has no basis in reality. If I want to know how to people work; the Bell Shaped Curve is all I need. I don't need your doom and gloom non-sense which is honestly different than leftist kvetching.

>>20446966
Not him, but a group of bureaucrats and NGO activists can decide that you no longer deserve access to your money because you have the wrong opinion on pharma's latest cash grab. Banks will obey and you are basically broke. Money is becoming progressively useless.
(Race is still hardly real though, sorry lol).

>>20446951
Because big money capitalists use worker regulations to price out small businesses. Why do you think Mac Donald supported 15 dollars an hour? Big corporations can absorb the regularity costs, but their competitors can not. Small business can't afford unions. Big corporations are in the hands of big government which is what Democrats and liberals want to so that they can control people. Big corporations can rely on illegal immigrants being paid lower wages, small businesses can't get away with it. Big corps can because they have connected political interests within big government.

>>20446968
>What you describe is precisely why immigration is a capitalist position, because in such a factory, simply put, nobody is going to sign that union card at the end of the day and nobody historically has.
That's not true at all. It happened just a few weeks ago at a warehouse with 8,000 people in the United States including a bunch of immigrants. Senegalese, Nigerians, Liberians, Ghanaians, Algerians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Albanians, Polish, Filipinos, Malaysians, and a lot of Latinos. That's on top of the white and black native-born Americans in the place. Have you ever been in a labor union or tried to organize one? Or even been on a picket line? It's a serious question. What I'm mostly hearing here are abstract ideological arguments about how "natural primal communities will manifest themselves" and so on. If you want to strengthen unions, I'd recommend getting involved in the labor movement.

>>20446994
I simply look forward to a strong blood & soil nationalist state wherein the ultimate aim of all people is the betterment of its native people. Not the accumulation of capital or the removal of hierarchies. Fascism appears to offer these premises I seek.

>>20447002
Call it ethnicity, racism, heritage. It really does not matter to me. I simply not wish to live amongst Afircans, South Americans, Indians or many others. All of them detract and when numbers are sufficient they attack the dominant social group, Europeans.

Minimum wage, universal healthcare, social security, and unions kill jobs because they force small business to cut workers hours, and close down because only big corporations can absorb these costs. Leftist, Marxist policies like this have ruined countries because no one wants to work, and is dependent on the government.

>>20446899
>salary and self employed workers exist
that's mostly the middle class, not the working class

>>20447019
It's like you're standing in a building that has been burning for hours and is completely wreathed in flame and when I say "Why didn't you put out the fire? Aren't you a fireman?" you say "Uh excuse me, I have this bucket of water don't I?"

If this shit worked, why did it let things get so bad? How many thousands more years do we need to let leftist intellectuals write a million op-eds justifying open borders immigration for every one unionizing success story? When does something actually happen?

>>20446988
>Real household income has increased since the 1950s
>Disposable household income has increased since the 1950s
>Personal consumption has increased since the 1950s
anon two of these things are all entirely due to the law of decreasing labour content (LDLC), the rise in productivity in capitalism. "real" wages refer to the amount of goods that can be purchased on a given wage, which rises due to LDLC. personal consumption rises because there's more stuff being produced per person, again due to LDLC. but the amount of labour time that an average wage purchases has remained mostly constant. disposable income rises due to inflation, which exists to make workers consoom more
>SOROS!!!
Soros is a capitalist
>liberal
don't call me a fucking liberal, asswipe

>>20447033
I don't think there's a labor shortage in the U.S. because "no one wants to work" because there's a kick-ass healthcare system and the few hundred bucks that Trump-Biden sent out two years ago was enough for everyone to just retire... and not the million dead and millions more incapacitated because the government spent the COVID relief money on more cops and weapons for Ukraine.

>>20447033
Marxism is a capitalist psyop

>>20447015
good post

>>20447033
If your small business can't afford those costs then it isn't a viable business. If you want to pay a worker less than the cost of living in that area, you depend on some kind of subsidy, either from the government through welfare to your worker or for them to live at their parents and have their cost of living compensated that way. The greatest improvement to worker's rights have been because of Marxists.

>>20447030
"Tolerance" and fondness for "diversity," as well as instinctive fairness and shame over winning a rigged game, are white ethnic traits. This whole debate is about abstractions that are only abstractions in the first place because whites manifest them spontaneously.

White societies would be paradises if they hadn't been tricked into destroying themselves, by using their own good natures against them.
>Here is a decent, ordinary fellow Englishman, who in broad daylight in my own town says to me, his Member of Parliament, that the country will not be worth living in for his children. I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking – not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history. We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependents, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre. So insane are we that we actually permit unmarried persons to immigrate for the purpose of founding a family with spouses and fiancées whom they have never seen.

>As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood". That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century. Only resolute and urgent action will avert it even now. Whether there will be the public will to demand and obtain that action, I do not know. All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.

>>20447039
When does *what* happen? If you don't like open borders, then write a letter to your congressman. Or Vote. That'll make a difference!

>>20447035
Not really. Salary and employed workers are working class too. Many of them are just independent contractors. Working class people have lower wages because they don't do skilled labor, and they have much more competition because they are easily replaceable.

>>20447059
The strategy of the national syndicalists, who were basically "Marxists but actually effective instead of retards," was to use the structure of parliamentary and democratic regimes against themselves. Hitler did it, Codreanu almost did it.

>>20447064
Thanks for the history lesson.

>>20447068
You're welcome, I figured it was better than responding "What are you talking about? Did you mean to reply to someone else?" I don't like to bully the retarded.

>>20447055
Why is it the fault of the small business when it could easily operate according to the market, hire people and create jobs if the government wasn't in the way? It doesn't only effect small businesses either, it effects you because it insures you pay more in taxes and goods because those costs of operation have to be passed down to consumers. Your policies are just stupid on all levels. You seem to think its better to have less businesses, less competition and more dependency on company towns and corporations like Amazon. How are you people not shills for big corps?

>>20447078
I think competition is very much needed, and I think companies like Amazon should be forcibly broken up or taxed much higher. I also happen to think that you shouldn't have to allow poverty wages for small businesses to exist. In fact, I would be fine abolishing the minimum wage if we simply taxed large corporations more and implemented a UBI. Then workers would be truly free to decide if a wage was enough for them to consent to working for it.

>>20447049
The labor shortages we have in the US literally only apply to very specific few of jobs. What we've seen is people just move from manual labor jobs to mostly remote work because of the pandemic. Unemployment rates keep going down across the country is proof of this. Its just that jobs have shifted to different fields.

>>20447072
What do you want me to tell you? By your own logic, the capitalist class isn't going to do what you want. You're weak and they're powerful and they're bludgeoning you with "thousands of years of op-eds" in the fucking newspapers, which is horrible. So how do you make them do what you want? *gestures vaguely at Hitler*

Well, how did that work out? Proof = pudding

>>20447078
I don't think he's saying that. The logic of capitalist competition is what's killing those small businesses -- since why would capitalists prefer competition? I would prefer to crush my competition by forming a monopoly, undercut my competitors, and dominate the market. There seems to be an inability for liberals to understand that when Marxists are describing something, it's not because they're endorsing it.

>>20447091
I don't see why you would do UBI and not index funds on corporations. Companies like Amazon and Walmart should just stop receiving subsidies.

>>20447091
UBI, as something that gives a central government even more invasive control over your life, and also tends to turn everyone into a lazy pothead faggot, is the worst combination of welfare state + nanny state you could ever have.

The goal should be to create citizens who can support themselves (ideally off independently owned land they can also be proud of), not create slave-citizens who love their slavery.

Incidentally this is why a well-armed citizenry is always a good thing. It makes them stronger, more independent, prouder. Machiavelli knew what he was doing.

>>20447107
>Well, how did that work out?
The leftists, your friends, allied with the capitalists to beat my guys, the only people who ever made functioning socialist states (where happiness and productivity also skyrocketed to superhuman levels within 5 years). Your guys, the leftists who ally with capital whenever they get a chance, only barely beat the good guys.

Luckily we'll see round two soon. Unless you can do enough unionizing of Mexicans with IQs of 80 and pothead blacks who have been dependent on the welfare state for half a century thanks to leftist cooperation with the bourgeoisie (wow, it just keeps happening):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy

Let's see who succeeds first. I'm gonna put my money on the people who currently don't control every university, and don't have the state department calling them the biggest threats to neoliberalism.

>>20447120
The commies started having a hissy fit when the conservachads were trying to stop tax exceptions for Disney

>>20447107
Its government regulation that kills the business though. Competition is not only preferred by businesses, but by consumers, because it gives us more choice at the marketplace. Competition is part of the information problem of all modern economies. You can't know what customers want unless you compete by responding to their demands at the market. I'm not sure why Marxists ignore competition when socialist economies, like the USSR, had to implement it through policies like socialist emulation. You simply can not encourage productivity and innovation without it.

>>20447135
Let me predict the response
>Those weren't real leftists! Only my discord tranny friends are the REAL leftists!

>>20447120
If workers require income from wages to support their costs of living, they aren't freely choosing that wage. If you have no other line of income, then you are forced to take whatever job is available, and when the labor market is increasingly globalized, it means your labor is competing with a billion Indians and a billion Chinamen meaning the wage available to you is increasingly a bad price for your labor. Only with a guaranteed income from a UBI would a worker actually be engaging in the labor market willingly, and not through compulsion.

>>20447146
Meant to reply to >>20447139

>>20447063
no, most of them aren't working class. they tend to have a privileged position in production (due to the property their own, to special education, etc.), granting them the capacity to share in the total surplus value. this makes their ultimate interests align with the capitalists (the defense of the continued production of surplus value, i.e. of capitalism) rather than with the working class (the abolition of the production of surplus value, i.e. of capitalism).
>Working class people have lower wages because they don't do skilled labor, and they have much more competition because they are easily replaceable.
so you do get it. you only need to follow the consequences of what you're saying: they're easily replaceable compared with the middle class salaried employees who aren't easily replaceable, who therefore get special treatment, who therefore acquire interest in preserving their special treatment rather than abolishing the basis for it, who therefore constitute a separate social class between the working class and the bourgeoisie.

>>20447142
>Competition is preferred by businesses
Flat out false. Competition lowers the rate of profit, therefore businesses do NOT want more competition

>>20447139
Which is ironic, but then again not really because at the end of day Marxists care more about identity politics than actual class.

I would support some kind of serious Eugene V. Debs "we're going to kill bankers in the street and get in pitched gunfights with Pinkertons" leftism but the contemporary American version A) hates me and B) has no teeth, they can't do anything but whine and make demands to the establishment.
When asked, I just laugh it off as being "apolitical," but really there's just no political group that has any of my interests in mind anymore. If the hard right or hard left could get their heads out of their asses, find some kind of leadership that isn't a complete embarassment, and openly put forth some kind of platform for sweeping changes, my burning hatred for neoliberalism is enough for me to probably be swayed to either one. All it would take is somebody willing to act, and I doubt I'm alone in thinking this way. We haven't elected a politician who could win a fistfight in the better part of a century.

>>20447059
>truckers spontaneously organize to resist neo-liberal government control of their labor
>every leftist unanimously condemns them as bourgeois and supports the bourgeois surveillance state because CNN told them to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo13VR9C2uI

revolution soon, comrade!

>>20447135
>everyone into a lazy pothead faggot
that's not what the recent finnish experiment said
>>20447142
>Competition is not only preferred by businesses
lol. imagine telling someone like Bezos this, holy shit

>>20447161
That is coming. I kind of hope Trump loses and we somehow get another four years of shrill, insane neoliberalism with a tranny face forced on us so people can see just how bad things really are. Trump or some demi-Trump clone winning would just allow energy to siphon off and fizzle out, without consciousness being raised.

>>20447184
>>20447161
On this note, an interesting video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBXE39MkZx4

Without competition there is no innovation. Say you have a market. You have company one and have company two. Company one provides a good, everyone buys from that single company. Company two exists, provides a better product. People flock to it. Company one responds to this by trying to make their product better. Innovation happens. Without competition, there would be no companies entering the market to create goods i.g. increase supply and there would be no reason to innovate because competition would not force them to. There is no way to make a healthy, or even wealthy, society without competition. Socialists seem to have this belief society can be filled with losers. Not everyone is going to have what they want. Scarcity exists. If its not resources, its in time - no economy can escape these pressures. Just saying we can get rid of "competition" or even the profit incentive is just not realistic policy.
>>20447156
Incorrect, competition means entering the market. Businesses can't exist without it. If competition did not exist, businesses could never exist. So, no. People prefer competition because they get rewarded for their risks.
>>20447150
There is also incorrect. The service economy ensures they are working class. Really, if workers are easily replaceable - that's not the fault of capitalism. That's fault of their genetics disallowing them for having the ability to succeed. Society isn't responsible for your inability to useful to it.

>>20447194
>Forty minute lecture from a literal who that looks like a human Twinkie
If you want me to give a shit you're gonna have to give me a quick rundown, chief

>>20447199
>competition means entering the market
Once a Business is in the market, they don't want any more entering the market, dumbass. They want to climb the ladder and then pull the ladder up after them so no one else can compete against them

>>20447203
Very well spoken description, from someone who has experienced every stage of what he describes firsthand, of how there is no mainstream political path to ethnonationalist politics. The state and system act like an immune system to isolate and destroy you, just as effectively as any secret police would. Interesting anecdotes of extremely cynical tactics used to take away hard-fought victories.

Demoralizing but also necessary to hear.

>>20447184
The rise in leftist beliefs just ensures democracy needs to be gutted. Democrats, Marxists are using government handouts as bribes to get people to the polls. Its going to destroy this country like its doing now.

>>20447199
>Without competition there is no innovation
TIL there's no innovation in academia or anywhere else outside of the market
>hypotheticals
how about you look at what the world actually looks like, libshit?
>Socialists seem to have this belief society can be filled with losers
I mean we already have a society full of dumbass liberals. also you're wrong

>>20447205
We have a baby shortage formula because government regulations stopped businesses from entering the market, and a retard like you wants to tell me having no competition is okay? You're retarded. As long as competition exists; there will always be an incentive for companies to keep trying to meet demand. Atari was a monopoly on the gaming industry, but it fell due to competition. Companies don't last forever and can not get rid of competition for long. Sooner or later your policies will cause problems in society, like they are now, and that's going to make everyone poorer with less money. We are suffering from inflation because policies you support - widespread government money printing and no incentive for people to work because you think the best policy to the market is just ensure everyone lives off handouts. Its pathetic.

>>20447234
TIL there's no competition academia. Why do you think Yale, Harvard and Princeton are literally private institutions that restrict people coming into them. You can't just get rid of competition you fucking retard. Its a part of human nature. We have compete because we have scarce resources and time. People fall behind because of their genetics. No government policy will ever change that. No wishful thinking from NEETs like you will change that.

>>20447244
>you wants to tell me having no competition is okay?
Competition is good, you retard, but companies that have a successful and profitably business model don't want that model threatened, so THEY don't want competition.

>>20447256
>TIL there's no competition academia
fair point. but also that's not typically what liberals mean when they do the whole muh competition spiel. in the broader sense of the word people obviously compete in a great many ways. sports for example

>>20447059
This image is disgusting. A man, with barely a child's intellect has been able to amass a fortune by producing a product that in no way resemble anything close to artistry and is in fact the destruction of all that came before.

He is able to act as some moral authority on an issue he can scarcely understand. One that were his people left alone they could not in any amount of time create a system of similar value, or any value.

It repulses me.

>>20447258
Communists like you just are utopians who will never achieve political power. The world runs on the principle of the survival of the fittest. Nothing you do or say will change that. You are so fucking stupid. Competition is the reason why they can make money in the first place. Without competition, they can't even enter the market. Competition is about risk, and that will always mean there are downsides you stupid fucking child. Its just that upsides are better than the downsides because competition increasing innovation, supply and consumer choice while ensuring the best competitors are justly rewarded for their work. I'm sorry we can't live your post-scarcity, that only exists in that small head of yours, where you think humans can live without risk. Your life is going to suck. Either adapt or die. Nobody is responsible for you, low life.

>>20447142
>Competition is not only preferred by businesses
No, read Thiel

>>20447269
You're so fucking stupid you just said no competition exists in academia. You motherfuckers are stupid - you talk about college, but even know what LSATs and ACT exist lmfao. You think elite schools can just teach everyone skills. That's just now how it fucking works my guy. There is always going to be an elite of people who better than because of their genetics. Complaining about it, like you do, instead of making your a better competitor is why you're such a fucking loser in life .

>>20447280
Thiel loves competition because he uses his money to compete in politics with Soros funded Democrats like you. What he hates is government-funded trust babies like you using it to limit his ability to compete.

>>20447279
>The world runs on the principle of the survival of the fittest
good thing socialism is a higher mode of production than capitalism then
>Competition is the reason why they can make money in the first place
competition makes it harder for companies to make money, not easier. *every* company seeks to become a monopoly since that is the most profitable. dumbass libs don't even fucking understand the system they defend, as per usual
>>20447286
I run my own business and I'm involved in academia. but nice projection there

>>20447199
Thank god we never had this at all in our history, wherein the Government or church held absolute sway in who did what. Otherwise we would never have left the caves in a orderly, democratic march that allowed competition. Thank God that when the British Empire ruled the world there was no state mandated companies, no inherited leadership class, no government mandated monopolies and more.

>>20447291
Read Zero to One lol, he loves monopolies without competition. Not bothering with the rest of your post cause it doesn't apply to me.

>>20447298
Socialism isn't a "higher mode of production." Its a utopian scam for retards like you who don't want to work. You lack the innovation to create an economy that operate better than the capitalist system's profit motive, competition, markets or price signals. An idealogy pushed by someone who wasn't even economist - making him as economically illiterate as you. That's even today China and Vietnam don't even bother with that non-sense. You're fucking retard, and I'm so glad people like you will never have any power in my society.

>>20447279
>Competition is the reason why they can make money in the first place
This reads like the borderline-mythological bullshit you hear in an incredibly basic 9th grade econ class that only exists to raise people like you who mindlessly repeat talking points without thinking about them.
Why the fuck would a company encourage competitors to enter their market?

>>20447303
Thiel is clearly lying, and retards like you just take him at face value when he funds pro-capitalist candidates. You're so stupid.

>>20447279
>Competition is the reason why they can make money in the first place

I don't care about money, I want to continue growing food, rearing animals and have more children. The current paradigm now precludes us from doing that and any connection to land, people and blood. They want us as a consumerist battery, once spent we are replaced. Your worldview is as poisonous to me as the food you get delivered to your door.

>>20446146
He literally just rehashed what the most extreme Jacobins of France tried to do 50 years earlier

>>20447311
>Mindless repeat talking points
This is coming from a guy who thinks society would be richer without a profit. Competition is why companies can even enter the market in the first place. Why the fuck would anyone work in a society where people were not incentivize to create or innovation since there would be no competition?

>>20447167
wow, the left wing of bourgeois politics is bourgeois and not revolutionary. who woulda suspected
>>20447199
>The service economy ensures they are working class.
how?
>Society isn't responsible for your inability to useful to it.
people's usefulness is determined by their usefulness to the accumulation of capital, because accumulation of capital is the motive of social reproduction. once it ceases to be the motive, the yardstick for usefulness will change

>>20447324
>I don't care about money
Lmao, this is a lie. You literally can not live without money. You people just lie and pretend you're holier than thou. It doesn't work. Everyone knows your faults. If really didn't care about money; throw away your computer and stop posting on 4chan. Stop going to work (well you probably don't work anyways)

>>20445689
Leave your house.

>>20447331
>how?
Because they're becoming gig workers and independent contractors who work for companies uber. People make like 80,000 a year just doing rides. You're a bit slow here. Automation and the information revolution have moved jobs away from manual labor to intellectual labor. Marxists are just people living in 18th century and not the current one. Your ideas do not apply.
>people's usefulness is determined by their usefulness to the accumulation of capita
Peoples' usefulness has always been determined by their accumulation of resources. This is retarded - you think survival of the fittest did matter before capitalism? What societies weren't poor without having ability to acquire an accumulation goods and services? Don't be retarded.

>>20447330
You're putting all kinds of words in my mouth now, compadre.
You seem to be severely confusing why a firm would want something versus why their consumers would want it. The original anon was saying established companies will do what they can to stifle competition, and your spergout seems to imply they love competitors because it's good for consumers. That's nonsense.

>>20447344
>People make like 80,000 a year just doing rides
Tell me you've never done these jobs without telling me you've never done these jobs

>>20447351
Scarcity has always existed, and that has always pushed people to accumulate goods and services. This is just a retarded argument - you really think people never accumulated things they needed to survive until 200+ years ago? You're just so dumb. You do not understand human nature. Literally every society before and After Rome have been about competition, survival, wealth and power. Literally, learn what scarcity is. Learn how human nature works, retard.

>>20447351
You keep complaining about something you don't understand. Competition isn't something companies can avoid even if they don't like it. You're not going to get rid of competition. Your argument is worthless. People enjoy competition because it allows them to gather what they need to survive.

>>20447354
Are you a fucking chatbot? None of what you're saying is coherent
>>20447362
>You're not going to get rid of competition
Except for the many times companies have successfully done so
Again, you seem to have had these concepts like "Competition™" reified in your mind as deity-like, inevitable, instantaneous, everywhere. Supply and demand curves are not real.

>>20445579
Yes based. But hey, there will always be retards who will says marx was part of a millenarian jewish conspiracy.
I mean anyone thinking marx is for the jews after reading this quote is a lost cause.

>>20447352
https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-us-cities-making-more-than-40-dollars-per-hour-2021-5
Uber drivers make 40 dollars an hour. If they work 45 hours, a week they can literal over 80,000 dollars.
You really are a retard. This information is public knowledge. Stores are paying people 20 dollars to stock food. You guys are fucking lzy.

>>20445647
>He means leftist workers, not reactionaries

>>20447354
>Scarcity has always existed, and that has always pushed people to accumulate goods and services
You are right. Proletarian should take over the scarce ressource belonging to the owners of the means of production. Proletarian should take over the scarce mines, fields, factories.

>>20447383
The problem with marx is that most marxist are nigger cattle that want to ban buns, and are probably trannies

>>20447379
You seem to live inn a world where you think you can just sit at home and leech off the government. You literally have no other solution getting people to work and to produce things. You think we should get rid of competition, markets, and profits to make society more productivity. You're so stupid. You leftists are insanely stupid. You think supply and demand doesn't matter. You think competition is bad because the losers leave the market, and the winners provide us with better goods and services. You are very stupid person. You don't even live in reality. You live in your head.

>>20447391
Wage workers can go start business or become self employed like anyone else. You don't have right to someones' property though because you work there. If that was the case; you should give your computer back to the workers who made it. Ownership is by license, not labor. You sell labor for a wage, not for ownership.

>>20447400
>No, i have never heard about revolutionary Catalonia. Yes, i am ignorant and it's okay.

>>20447400
Anon, you aren't reading anything I'm writing.
This entire argument has been me trying to speak to you while you argue with the imaginary leftist bogeyman in your head.
>You think
>You think
>You think
>You think
I didn't say any of that shit, you are literally making it up.

>>20447408
>You don't have right to someones' property though because you work there.
Some people might not think like this. Some people might think the Capitalist in not entitled to the surplus labor created by the workers.

>>20447333
>You literally can not live without money.
That never used to be the case, under feudalism we worked less hours than we did now and were provided with all the items needed to raise a home and family.

>You people just lie and pretend you're holier than thou. It doesn't work. Everyone knows your faults.
I am not at all holier than thou, I have a different set of values to the economic consumer mindset you hold. I want a focus on the family, the blood and the soil of a nation, I don't care if we have twenty different types of tooth pastes or half a dozen new movies a week to view. Your illusion of your freedom is easily pierced by simply reaching out. When you do, you find life begins and ends with the aforementioned blood and soil.

>>20447431
>I want a focus on the family, the blood and the soil of a nation, I don't care if we have twenty different types of tooth pastes or half a dozen new movies a week to view.
Should have killed Hitler and chosen Ernst Rohm then.

>>20447425
The capitalist created the business that could make something valuable to society. Having capital doesn't instantly make it valuable. You could pour a bunch of labor, and money into a business that doesn't make money or help society.

>>20446396
>Allow millions of migrants in for more then 50 years.

>Dont worry citizen we reduced migration this year by a few percent with bipartisan support, it's that what you wanted

>>20447431
>That never used to be the case, under feudalism we worked less hours
They worked less because they lived shorter lives, lol. This is retarded. And they had money during those times too. The aristocratic class clearly had more money than the poor. This is also retarded.
>I want a focus family
Dude, you're a larper. You need to get of your house and get a job. This is embarrassing. You literally do not do anything useful to society, and want people to care about your opinions.

>>20447431
>That never used to be the case, under feudalism we worked less hours
Literally no evidence of this. Imagine thinking hunting, gathering and farming took less hours than going to Walmart for food. Talk about being a retard man.

>>20447451
>The capitalist created the business that could make something valuable to society.
I thought it was the workers, through their work. Expanded reproduction of Capital is surplus value created by the workers being reinvested. A factory growth is growing because of the worker's work.

>>20447492
Not really. How could the workers make value if the business, they did not create, did not exist? The labor theory of value is fallacious because it assumes labor is valuable based on hours of work, and not utility. The busies owner is also a working person too; he just does work that is harder do, has a higher skill set than the laborer. If the laborer had a higher skill set - they would be running a business instead of working at one.

>>20446396
>"tighten" the borders AFTER damage has been done for decades

Yeah, real nice.

>>20447474
>Literally no evidence of this. Imagine thinking hunting, gathering and farming took less hours than going to Walmart for food
Took me about 1 minutes and a half on a mainstream search engine to find this.
Hunter-gatherers have more leisure time.
https://rewild.com/in-depth/leisure.html

>>20447444
>Should have killed Hitler and chosen Ernst Rohm then
Every Fascist government has had a focus on family, it is the bedrock of a nation.

>>20447462
>They worked less because they lived shorter lives.
Not at all, they were able to enjoy far more personal time than we do, and were granted far more for their service. We still work a greater percentage of our lives for less and are expected to be grateful.

>And they had money during those times too. The aristocratic class clearly had more money than the poor.
If I am able to obtain a rifle, land and wife I will want for nothing more, with those three things a man should be able to find happiness and fulfillment.

>Dude, you're a larper. You need to get of your house and get a job. This is embarrassing. You literally do not do anything useful to society, and want people to care about your opinions.
I have all these things, I know I have been lucky and fortunate and sacrificed a great deal to obtain them. I want others, like me, to obtain them.

>>20447344
>Because they're becoming gig workers and independent contractors who work for companies uber.
the conversation wasn't about those people. there's a difference between someone who's an IT contractor because that way he can squeeze out 400% the median salary instead of 300% median salary out of various capitalists and someone who's a wagie pretend-"contractor" for some big corporation.
>Automation and the information revolution have moved jobs away from manual labor to intellectual labor.
no they haven't. outsourcing work doesn't mean it disappears into the ether
>Marxists are just people living in 18th century and not the current one.
because?
>Your ideas do not apply.
which ideas?
>>20447344
>Peoples' usefulness has always been determined by their accumulation of resources.
no, it wasn't. and resources aren't capital by nature.
>you think survival of the fittest did matter before capitalism? What societies weren't poor without having ability to acquire an accumulation goods and services?
why are you asking irrelevant questions?
>Don't be retarded.
your entire comment is unsubstantiated irrelevant assertions followed by a bunch of irrelevant questions. don't call me retarded when you're unable to engage in a straightforward dialogue
>>20447384
>Uber drivers make 40 dollars an hour
in the most expensive US cities
>>20447408
>Wage workers can go start business or become self employed like anyone else.
and who will work for those businesses then?
>You don't have right to someones' property though because you work there.
lol, right is established by the class that's in power. if it isn't a right currently, then it can become one
>>20447506
>The labor theory of value is fallacious because it assumes labor is valuable based on hours of work, and not utility.
what are you on about? the LTV literally says that labour that's put into a product but isn't socially necessary doesn't create value.
>If the laborer had a higher skill set - they would be running a business instead of working at one.
the labourer and the capitalist would change places and the overall situation would remain just the same. was you hypothetical being pointless part of your master plan?

>>20447506
>he just does work that is harder do, has a higher skill set than the laborer.
Well he mostly and definitively have more Capital than the worker.
>If the laborer had a higher skill set - they would be running a business instead of working at one.
Not if they do not have Capital. They are a lot of engineers most talented than Bill Gates or Elon Musk. Yet they do not run shit because they weren't born millionaires like those two.
>The labor theory of value is fallacious because it assumes labor is valuable based on hours of work,
It is true (LTV). The value of your sneakers or of your computer is roughly the amount of labor time they contain.

>>20447517
None of things you're saying is true.
>>20447513
Again, that is just a bullshit.
Your evidence is bullshit. Its based on a single tribe that exists today, and they don't provide any data. They just assume they work less. No empirical evidence whatsoever.
These people aren't ancient hunters and gathers either. A single tribe, free-riders of modern society, literal hearsay from them, isn't proof the majority of people 2000+ years ago worked less. You can't be serious. This is like saying communism works because hippe communes exist. This isn't scientific proof at all. Its bullshit.

>>20447517
>Every Fascist government has had a focus on family, it is the bedrock of a nation.
Yes that's why Hitler died childless and married at the end (officially) of his life :s

>>20447533
Your entire argument is gish galloping. You can't argue against the fact society can not be made without classes, without competition, and without some way to incentivize working. Instead of addressing these arguments - you just talk non-sense. You blame the rich for the problems. You're failure in society. Marx wasn't even an economist. Like you, he lived too much inside of his head instead of the real world. Capitalists make profitiable businesses; workers do not. They don't start businesses because they're only good at low skill labor. Their wage is a reflection of that. These are just facts you have to accept.

>>20447543
I've not only read this short article. I've read the anthropolotist Pierre Clastres, and it indeed seems that primitive tribes have more leisure time. Primitive tribes love to hunt, so you cannot even consider hunting as working for them.
>This is like saying communism works because hippe communes exist.
No, because revolutionary Catalonia worked. They weren't free-riders, as they produced themselves their own needs.

>>20447571
>They don't start businesses because they're only good at low skill labor.
Holy shit when they will rise you will be up for a surprise. Nothing sleeps forever.

>>20447543
the truth shall set you free faggot

>>20447533
>right is established by the class that's in power.
So what? That's always been the case. Societies will always be hierarchical. Survival of the fittest, kid.
>because?
Because Revolutions of 1989 did away with your crappy ideas.
>in the most expensive US cities
Yeah... you think its bad there are cheaper places to live? Are you retarded?
>and who will work for those businesses then?
People can't form their own businesses. Since not every worker is intelligent enough to run a worker cooperative. If worker cooperatives were actually successful, they would replace those businesses through competition. They don't because they suck ass and don't work. Worker co-operatives incentive lazy-ness because people just want higher wages instead of producing more.
>LTV
LTV is garbage. It literally is just you believe labor hours determine the price of a commodity. its wrong and was never correct. Never will be.
>the labourer and the capitalist would change places and the overall situation
yeah, you acknowledge your ideas are pointless because people simply don't have skills to create wealth and have to rely on others for wealth? What is this argument, retard. Hierarchies are always going to exist. Losers are going to be at the bottom. Yes, you are right.

Communism is a joke, a failure, and a symbol of shame. Communism turns workers into serfs, it will always devolve into neo-feudalism because feudalism is the logical extreme of dictatorship. When the state owns the means of production the political class becomes the bourgeoisie. The notion that a state would voluntarily cede power to become a classless, stateless utopia is the single stupidest idea of the last thousand years. Ancient religions make more sense than that.

>>20447573
No, that article doesn't provide any evidence. It just says
>Between October 1963 and January 1965, Richard Borshay Lee conducted fieldwork with the !Kung Bushmen in the Dobe area of Botswana.
It uses this single tribe, that isn't even pre-historic, as proof they worked lower hours. They don't show data. They just make assumptions. Its bull crap.
>No, because revolutionary Catalonia worked.
Because they used prison labor and coercion. They also had wage labor, profit incentives and markets. Literally just like today. You anarchists are retarded.

>>20447474
>hunting, gathering and farming
Nobody whose understanding of history is so colossally bad that they confuse pre-societal hunter-gatherers with medieval serfs farming under feudalism should ever call another person retarded
This isn't a little forgivable oversight, this is a sign that your entire conception of the past is fundamentally fucked

>>20445579
Fuck it, let’s give communism a shot. Can’t be worse than what we in the USA are going through now

>>20445579
the section on commodity fetishism blew mind desu. dude's a genius

>>20447609
You have to be stupid because you think feudal people were not hunters, gathers and did not farm. Holy shit. You are a dumb person.

>>20447474
>Imagine thinking hunting, gathering and farming took less hours than going to Walmart for food

The vast majority of what you buy in Walmart is literal poison. Grow your own food, raise your own animals, leave the city, raise a family. But again you muddle the issue because you have no real position. Your 30 minutes at Walmart omits the 40 hours you work for peanuts to buy the goyslop you crave.

The welcome alternative is you spend a dozen hours a week maintaining your animals and vegetables, this rising to nearly full time employment during harvest season (Autumn) and birthing season (Spring).

>>20447549
What Hitler did personally, does not matter. The policies he implemented to encourage native births, reward servicemen with land is desirable now as it always has been.>>20447543

>None of things you're saying is true.
It is, friend, I hope you find them.

>>20447640
Medieval European serfs did not spend significant amounts of time hunting and gathering. They did spend lots of time farming. You are an illiterate retard.

>>20447641
>The vast majority of what you buy in Walmart is literal poison.
Schizo posting.
>Grow your own food, raise your own animals, leave the city, raise a family.
t. larper, things you'll never do. You just live off the government bro. Right-wing do homesteading. Leftists like you could do that now, but you don't, because you're lazy bums man. Nobody is fooled here.

>>20447637
Don't look up Marx on child labor.

>>20447647
>Schizo posting.

>Eat clean natural foods grown yourself
>Reject goyslop & goyslurp

>>20447647
>You just live off the government bro. Right-wing do homesteading
I do homesteading friend, you need not be so hostile. It is great.

>>20447571
>You can't argue against the fact society can not be made without classes
I don't have to because that's not a fact
>without competition, and without some way to incentivize working.
no problem with that. you can have competition and incentives for behaviour without private property
>Instead of addressing these arguments - you just talk non-sense
lol which arguments. I addressed things that were said directly
>You blame the rich for the problems.
no I don't. where are you getting this from?
>You're failure in society.
I'm reasonably successful, it think you might be projecting
>Marx wasn't even an economist
very true (and that's a good thing)
>Like you, he lived too much inside of his head instead of the real world.
he has put more hours into studying the real world than you have lived
>Capitalists make profitiable businesses; workers do not.
the sky is blue, Beethoven's music is art
>They don't start businesses because they're only good at low skill labor. Their wage is a reflection of that. These are just facts you have to accept.
I do. now what?
>>20447597
>So what?
so appealing to right in order to justify current society is circular
>Because Revolutions of 1989 did away with your crappy ideas.
what ideas?
>Yeah... you think its bad there are cheaper places to live?
no, I think pointing to people earning $40 an hour and forgetting to mention that it's in New York is disingenuous
>If worker cooperatives were actually successful, they would replace those businesses through competition.
who the fuck asked? I don't care about co-ops
>LTV is garbage. It literally is just you believe labor hours determine the price of a commodity. its wrong and was never correct. Never will be.
I countered your retarded argument and your only response is "ur wrong because ur wrong". loser
>What is this argument, retard.
which argument? I said your hypothetical was pointless because it didn't actually present a situation that's any different from the present, which is the entire point of hypotheticals

>>20447646
What the fuck are you talking about? Medieval people were small commodity, subsistence farmers who had do hunting and farming all year around. That was hard labor, retard. Labor you're too pussy to even do because you're a bum. They spent more time focused on survival because some feudal lord, raider could come through and burn their cities to the ground. You're dumbass if you think people who had to fight bandits all the time and die from plague, food poisoning and cholera deaths had better lives than people today. You are a dumbass.

>>20447653
As in that he thought children should be part of the production process in communism? i dont see the problem there. Work doesnt necessarily need to be as hazardous as it currently is.

>>20447647
>The vast majority of what you buy in Walmart is literal poison.
>Schizo posting.
No wonder the American south is so overweight, enjoy your hfcs and onions, you likely have less than a decade or so with arteries so clogged

>>20447664
>farming all year around
Yes, we all know that winter is the best time for farming
>had to fight bandits all the time and die from plague, food poisoning and cholera deaths
Read a book that isn't the 5e Dungeon Masters guide

>>20447662
>I don't have to because that's not a fact
It is a fact. Tribal societies had hierarchies. They had chieftains, hunters, house-makers, priests etc - they were not egalitarian or communist.
>you can have competition and incentives for behaviour without private property
Not really. Competition exists, has always existed, because people need private property to survive. And you're so stupid you believe competition is only for material things. People compete also for their passions - their love, their religion, their ideas. You don't understand human nature at all.
>I addressed things that were said directly
You haven't addressed anything. You just gish-gallop.
>no I don't. where are you getting this from?
You've spent this entire thread crying about rich people.
>I'm reasonably successful, it think you might be projecting
Nah, successful people don't seethe over capitalism. You don't have kids or family. Everyone knows you're loser in life. Anti-capitalism is for losers.
>Marx wasn't an economist and that's a good thing
And you admit nobody should care what you and him had to say about economists because you don't understand it. Good to know.
The revolutions of 1989 did away with communism. The world will be ruled by private property, classes, wealth and markets until the day you die. You will never change that. You will have your socialist revolution and you will never own the means of production. Capitalism won. Communist lost. You were losers in 1938, you were losers in 1973 and you were losers in 1989. Seethe and cope.

>>20447664
>Subsistence farmers who had do hunting and farming all year around.

You can't farm all year round in Europe, it is not possible because of the actual seasons. Nor could you hunt all year, most would be rabbit or fish. You could raise your own animals and crops which take a small amount of time for subsistence, less than 15 hours a week.

>>20447664
>That was hard labor, retard. Labor you're too pussy to even do because you're a bum.
It is not that hard, urbanite. We have done it since we left the caves.

>Die from plague, food poisoning and cholera deaths had better lives than people today.
More people die per capita from eating goyslop and giving themselves massive heart attacks and obesity. We know what causes cholera and food poisoning and now plague, they did not.

>>20447693
>Yes, we all know that winter is the best time for farming
Yeah... there are winter crops you fucking retard. How do you not know this, and you want to tell us want to go start farming in the woods? We know you wouldn't survive.
>read a book
Communism lost. Capitalism won. Seethe and dilate.

>>20447708
Uh, retard, this isn't true. People would hunter and farmed all year around. Seasons aren't consistent across Europe because latitude and longitude, you retard. Its a range. Nor did people stay in the same location all year around. They would travel a lot.
>t is not that hard, urbanite.
Then go do it right now instead of larping you stupid faggot. Why are you on 4chan all day talking about how living in the woods is epic when you don't have a job or live in the woods? You stupid fuck.

>>20447309
>Its a utopian scam for retards like you who don't want to work
lol. keep slaving away for porky anon, I'm sure he'll reward you handsomely with more work

>>20447613
cant it though

Anti-capitalists are the biggest larpers. You won't live in the woods, but want to tell us how medieval people lived better lives. This is why communists are so damn retarded andot taken seriously. I can not believe people this retarded exist.
>>20447727
Keep losing to capitalists, buddy. This entire thread has just encouraged me to vote even more conservative. You people are insane and stupid. I can't imagine you guys getting power because you would destroy civilization and force us to all go back in the woods. You're mentally illl.

>>20446849
Leftists are usually in college or jobless.
Not even joking.

>>20447720
>People would hunter and farmed all year around
No, they would not. You can not farm during winter, the soviets learned this the hard way. European seasons are very varied, few places in the world have little variation as to allow a year long growing season. They also stayed in the same area, hence the region accents that became predominant across all of Europe, and are now fading as multiculturalism destroys any heritage.

>Go do it right now instead of larping you stupid faggot. Why are you on 4chan all day talking about how living in the woods is epic when you don't have a job or live in the woods?
I do, it's very easy and I have time enough to enjoy my hobbies. One of them is arguing for hard-right nationalist nativist politics online.

>>20447731
Worth a shot. The wealth inequality is obnoxious and it’s only getting worse. We need a restart even if some eggs get cracked. It’s definitely retarded to keep the status quo and watch the plane you’re on crash. Capitalism is great for non globohomo, growing countries. Everything is too saturated now and all of the slices of pie are gone

>>20447712
I'm not even that anon, but sure, think real life is like a video game. People did something called stockpiling and didn't generally need to farm during harsh winter months - grains keep for a while and their lords or the church would provide if neccessary during times of hardship.
Remember kids, reading is for commies, lmao

>>20447762
There is a third option...

>>20447757
>Ancaps are neo-feudalists
>No, no, no you don't understand. We should go back to living under feudalism and primtivism people worked less hours.
Dude, you're delusional. You're retarded. You need to be put in an insane asylum.

>>20447771
Chestertonism?

>>20447767
>accuses people of beliving real life is a video
>Believes life was better off when people were mainly hunter and gatherers, died from raiders and die from bacteria outbreaks in their water supplies before the age of 25.
You're just insane and mentally ill.

>>20447745
>You won't live in the woods
but anon I do live in the woods. I have 8 hectares of forest that I take care of, and 4 hectares of farmland in addition to that
>medieval people lived better lives
the average serf's working year was shorter than yours
>you would destroy civilization
I'm not the one angling for global thermonuclear war. that'd be uncle Joe and uncle Vlad

>>20447785
Yes, you obviously think medieval life was like it is portrayed in video games and pulp fantasy. The fact that you believe people during that time were roaming hunter gatherers and bandits were so ubiquitous are proof.

>>20447762
The US is going towards civil war because we have so many parasites pushing communism. I'm pretty confident the chances of the right because they're actually armed. Mass-killings against leftists are going to be necessary. These people are open about destroying civilization, and going full Pol Pot. The left is insane.
>>20447789
You have a computer. You don't live in the woods. You live off the backs off society and pretend you don't. You don't grow your own food, provide your own electricity, or even raise your own livestock.
>the average serf's working year was shorter than yours
Commie lies.
>I'm not the one angling for global thermonuclear war
You're people who believe women can have penises. You groom kids on Discord. You're pushing the nihilism, you're destroying religion, and you're bringing in immigrants to replace white workers. You're the enemies of the United States.

>>20447675
not only that he labels attempts of limiting child labour as reactionary.

Comrade son, 9 year olds don't know how to read, in what productive process are they supposed to work??

>>20447801
Obviously medieval times were utopian and nobody died. It was peace on Earth. There were no wars, no deaths, and everyone were just friends. Hahahaha fucking retard, holy shit, dude you're lucky your anonymous. You would be mocked anywhere else.

Only a site filled with NEETs would you find people shilling communism, and praising feudalism and primitive as a utopia. Leftypol trooners are fucking crazy. Literally have the nerve to call ancaps neo-feudalists when these retards are praising serfdom and tribal times.

>>20447807
If ur not a murrikan republican then ur a damn dirty libtard!!!1!
Get a life and form your own ideas. Here you are crusading against individualism and self sufficiency when these were tentpole beliefs of your party not even 2 decades ago. The real shabbos goy here is you, cleetus.

>>20447774
>>Ancaps are neo-feudalists

I'm advocating for Fascism, Sir.

>>20447781
Distributism. A (mostly) free market where capital is distributed as far as possible to keep it from centralizing in trusts. The means of production are owned not by private individuals (capitalism) nor by the state as a stand-in for "the people" (socialism) but by the actual workers who use them. You own your own tools, you own the equipment that you use to make a living. In cases like factories where it's impractical to "own" your own tools or equipment it would function more like a worker co-op where normal workers all have a stake and more important workers (managers, etc.) have a bigger stake.
Distributism aims to provide as much control as possible to the normal workers while preventing power from accumulating in any one area.

>>20447816
Cool strawman, quote where I said those? Remember, you're trying to defend your dumbshit ideas against at least two anons that have more of a passing understanding of feudal Europe than yourself. Do you think Spaghetti Westerns are documentaries as well?

>>20447816
>I can't refuse their points or rationalize their position so I will make my points and argue against them.

>>20446948
>Boomers accoomulated huge amounts of wealth post WW2
>Each generation since them has accumulated less wealth at the same ages
>Union membership at lowest point since WW2
>Drug overdoses currently at epidemic levels
>Family structure completely obliterated, high single parent levels
>Multiple purposeful market crashes to bilk more money out of working people (2000, 2008, 2015, 2020)
>"too-big-to-fail" companies get bailed out while average Americans lose what little they had
The country is splitting into two distinct groups, those reaping the benefits of the global free market to massively increase their wealth, and those relegated to perpetual renting and wage slavery. This is not a healthy nation.

>>20447384
>take this article where the company says you'll make this much money so you must
lmao bro go download uber right now and sign up as a driver. you sound like a moron talking about shit you've never even done yourself. I've driven in cities like philly and I've driven in nice suburbs you don't make fucking $80k per year doing it especially when factoring in gas, car maintenance, and all of the shit they don't tell you in articles like this like when some drunk kid pukes all over your back seat because that's who 70% off your clientele is going to be

>>20447808
idk, weird how child labor was ever a thing (and still is in undeveloped countries)

>>20447843
>>20447841
>Defends feudalism and primitivism
>Honestly believe people are going to take you seriously
Get a job, bum. You are just the same leftypol raiders. You raid slow boards, but you are a minority on this board and in real life. You get ran off /pol/ all the time, and come here to shill. Nobody cares.
>>20447853
>>20447859
Welfare parasites like you are killing the country. We need to kill off people like you and make space for actual productive workers.

>>20447888
Nah, I'm here regularly, but you sound like you're familiar with board tourism especially considering that you admit to not reading and actively see it as a dangerous activity on the literature board

>>20447888
>talk about my experience as a worker and how it's vastly different from your imagination (because you haven't actually done the work)
>REEEE WELFARE REEEE
sounds like you should get a job faggot

>>20447888
>>20447904
Willing to bet this guy is raiding from /leftypol/ and pretending to be a complete retard to stir anti-right sentiment, maybe go back to /chug/ with the rest of your tranny ilk.

>>20447888
>Get a job, bum. You are just the same leftypol raiders. You raid slow boards, but you are a minority on this board and in real life. You get ran off /pol/ all the time, and come here to shill. Nobody cares.

I have a job, I want blood and soil mentality to return and see the uplifting of the rural society as the guardian of the national ethnic stock of a nation.

>>20447911
He's not even right wing though he just sounds like an irate boomer

>>20447807
>You have a computer.
correct
>You don't live in the woods.
incorrect
>You live off the backs off society and pretend you don't.
we live in a society
>You don't grow your own food
I do, but I could grow more
>provide your own electricity
I do
>or even raise your own livestock.
I do, if you count wildlife as livestock
>Commie lies.
looks like I hit a nerve. go look it up. here's an online academic source: http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html
peasants had to be taught to become wagies
>You're the enemies of the United States
death to america!

>>20447704
>They had chieftains, hunters, house-makers, priests etc - they were not egalitarian or communist.
you're equivocating between simple division of tasks and a developed division of labour. the former exists without classes
>Competition exists, has always existed, because people need private property to survive. And you're so stupid you believe competition is only for material things.
are you schizophrenic? you equated all competition with competition for private property and then you called yourself stupid on that occasion.
so if competition is not just for material things, then it can perfectly well exist without private property.
>People compete also for their passions - their love, their religion, their ideas. You don't understand human nature at all.
so you said that people won't compete for love if there's no private property. you're a moron, you don't have any understanding and you write contradictory things because the only criterion is if they seem to contradict what the commie you're seething about is saying at the moment.
>You haven't addressed anything.
what haven't I addressed?
>You've spent this entire thread crying about rich people.
show me a single posts of mine where I cry about rich people
>Nah, successful people don't seethe over capitalism.
checks out, cause I don't
>You don't have kids or family. Everyone knows you're loser in life.
lol keep projecting, it'll surely make you feel better about yourself
>And you admit nobody should care what you and him had to say about economists
where have I said that?
>The revolutions of 1989 did away with communism.
no they haven't. the USSR and its satelites were capitalist
>Capitalism won. Communist lost.
haha, yes, capitalism sure looks like a winner. the coming famines will be such a win for humanity

>>20447905
>>20447904
>>20447911
>>20447914
>This random tribe in the 1960s is proof people lived better lives 2000+ years ago. We should go back to being cavemen,
This is your brain on leftism. You samefags need to be doxed, and put on kiwifarms. No way you're stable members of society.

>>20447920
who are you quoting

>>20447920
Whatever groomer, we know what you're up to now
Dilate and cope, you're already seething

>>20447919
>Competition wasn't a thing until capitalism
Again, your brain on leftism.
>Competition can be abolished
This is your brain leftism.
>The division of labor doesn't create class
Your brain on leftism.

>>20447924
Dude, I love'd to get doxes of some the people in this thread. I want proof you have a job because there's no way someone as retarded as you is stable. You clearly get a check from the government.

>>20447888
>We need to kill off people like you and make space for actual productive workers.
This guy wants to import more immigrant workers and he thinks other people are killing the country lol

>>20447925
I never said any of those things, so great job announcing yourself as an illiterate subhuman

>>20447919
Don't bother, he has a clear pattern of ignoring facts that don't immediately support his narrow FOX dictated position.
>>20447920
>kiwifarms
>>20447931
>love to get does
Again, Dialate and go back to your hugbox

>>20447762
>The wealth inequality is obnoxious
resentful fag

>>20447945
You're a NEET bro.
You have no job.
You don't own a business.
You don't even make above 24,000 dollars a year.
You sit on 4chan all day defending feudalism, primitive times while your mom pays the bills. You're not a revolutionary. You're never going to overthrow capitalism. You'll always be a loser and a nobody. I love how you've tried so hard to even refute me, but you can't. All you do is cope and dilate and scream about how I'm stupid enough to believe your claims feudalism was better for humanity than capitalism. Dude, your life is over. You have no future. You have no wife. No kids. Nothing. You're failure in life. Nothing you argue on 4chan, on discord, on twitter will change anything. You are weak and powerless. You're a just a bum living in your mom's basement. Seethe and Cope, commie. Seethe and Cope.

>>20447952
Here's the cope
Now go dilate and get back to kiwifarms, Troon, your raid is as transparent as your gender

>>20447954
Seethe and cope, commie. Capitalism will be around as long as you live. Seethe and cope. Bernie Sanders lost. You're not getting UBI. You're not getting universal healthcare. You're not getting free college. Social Security is going to be privatized. Obamacare will be repealed. You never stop capitalism from existing. You will be fertilizer for trees.

>>20447958
lol, is xe having an episode right now?

This always happens. Strong arguments for the far-right and suddenly brigades of left-wing posters show up, desperate to destroy any coherent and reasoned debate.

>>20447925
>>20447920
>>20447888
>>20447774


At this point they are trying to convince themselves of their own argument. We just happen to be in the way. I hope you find the enjoyment you seek, friend.

>>20447958
Cool
Go back to kiwifarms, tranny

>>20447960
>hates kiwifarms
So they have a thread on you there. Good to know. All you left-wing groomers end up on there sooner or later.

>>20445579
sir, this is /lit/. guns are primitive tools for the barbaric. the pen has been and always will be more powerful than the sword.

>>20447963
They believe living off the government is a right-wing belief, and they're trying so hard pretend they're not raiders. Its so fucking obvious. Nobody on the right defends living off the government. Right-wing arguments are against usury and government regulations. These people want to abolish private property and make everyone a government slave. Leftypol trying too hard.

>>20447991
You're leftypol, your posting style and crawling manner is transparent to all. I want blood, soil and family.

>>20447963
>their own argument
I dont even think xir has a cogent position outside of wanting to suckle on their employers teat like a good little slave and pretending to be for any values the right holds save their apparent rabid desire to uphold the American interventionist capitalist model that masquerades as laissez-faire.
>>20447991
>>20447997
Now its either changed tactics or so thoroughly poisoned the well in this thread that we have infighting. Hard to tell at this point.

>>20447948
I honestly don’t care about money that much. My thoughts are that the inequality is effecting many’s quality of life. Look at all the unrest now. That’s why I care. Also I don’t want to work for a mega corporation or live with an absentee landlord that I never see who just sits away somewhere piling up money as prices skyrocket to own or rent

>>20446632
>POV:
>You: 300 years from now:
Houses now cost 40x the median income. You are still waiting for the market to be deregulated and NIMBYs/Homeowners to not kick the ladder down behind them and vote with any sentiment other than, "fuck you, I got mine".

>>20447807
If you’re not one of the mega rich , and you’re defending them, you’re an embarrassment who only thinks in terms of political direction. I consider myself right wing but also consider there is a major issue with wealth inequality and the problems it brings. Does that blow your mind because everyone’s political views must fit snuggly in a label? Think for yourself and look at every political issue separately

>>20447997
You are leftypol. You're defending abolishing capitalism, and civilization. You defending feudalism and primitive times makes sense. This is the type of crazy, non-sense you sleaze-ball communist degenerates want.

>>20448018
>Job creators bad

>>20448172
>waits half an hour to post so xe can get the last word in and feel accomplished
Sad!
>>20448179
>actively argues against starting one's own business, self reliance, and restricting federal power
>not a leftard trolling
lol

>>20446874
CRAZY HOW THAT STARTED HAPPENING RIGHT AFTER MASS IMMIGRATION KICKED IN

>>20448214
>AFTER MASS IMMIGRATION KICKED IN
That would be the late 1800s, that graph correlates with stagflation and the advent of neoliberal economic policy, but I can't imagine you've ever opened a history book judging by your other posts, nice try

>>20447608
>Catalonia 1936
>They also had wage labor, profit incentives and markets.
In the city it was very socialized Capitlaism, but in the countryside, Capitalism was abolished. In Catalonia, indeed commodity and markets weren't abolished, but the workers were in charge of production, decided it's orientation, and elected the production managers. Also, sure there was a market, but the most successful industry branch, allocated their profits to the less sucessful industry branch. So it was really the most socialized Capitalism possible, right before communism. And some sources say that communism was achievable, only the republic and the banks sabotaged it.

>>20448220
kek mass immigration in the 1800s when the US still had like half the continent to populate and exploit is completely and utterly different than mass immigration in the late 20th and 21st century you absolute fucking buffoon, one involves tapping previously unused natural resources and massive scale development of infrastructure, and the other involves dividing the working class and keeping wages depressed and stripping workers of their bargaining power and putting a mcdonalds on every corner of the country

fucking insane that you tell me to "open a history book" when you clearly have no fucking idea at all what you are talking about.

>>20446500
You’re the kind of person that says this but then throw hissy fit when mom can’t get her you nuggies cause local McDonald’s close due to staff depletion

>>20446870
What are you doing on this board? I sincerely doubt you actually read

>>20448172
>I want a strong, nationalist state
>I want a strong, government made of native older servicemen and their compatriots
>I want names to reflect the native peoples values, ethnicity and appearance.
>I don't want to go to a restaurant when I could entertain or be entertained at the home of a dear friend
>Return the Germanic gymnasiums and the honor societies found within
>Strong military, strong people, strong nation
>Private property for the home is great, private property that weakens the people and damage the nation is not great.
>The family is the most important thing in this life. There is no other life.
>Strong borders, defended from illegals at gunpoint
>Built factories, build them with a mind to produce worthwhile goods, not cheap garbage that nobody needs, nor wants.
>Military police, the idea of a separate police force for civilians and one for military is a waste.

You keep inferring something you know is wrong. Third position, neither fully supportive of capitalism nor fully dismissive of it. A social program build by the people, for the people and contained within its borders a better place for its native people.

It is not difficult to imagine.

>>20447324
This.

>>20448263
>late 1800s
>the US still had like half the continent to populate
You mean the same states that no one lives in that no one did and still doesn't move to, sure, didn't mean to insult your flyover kiddo
Open a history book

>if you criticize the form of capitalism in the USA, you’re leftypol
Have you guys been in the workforce? Things need changing

>>20448295
>you mean the same states that no one lives in that no one did and still doesn't move to,
no?

>>20448214
yes, it's crazy how reality proves that workers are being played against each other and need to unite to fight against it

>>20448334
>Have you guys been in the workforce
They clearly haven't and project their shortcomings on everyone else. Try working in a factory 60+ hours a week and come back instead of being the NEETs we know you are.

>>20448295
Imagine being THIS ignorant and being THAT smug about it lmao. modern mass immigration involves flooding already established population centers with 3rd worlders so that the ultra rich can work with an employer favorable job market and a more easily exploitable workforce that has less bargaining power due to the devaluation of labour

>>20448365
I completely agree so long as you dont intend on ruining the working class with meme ideologies like communism and retarded hippie nonsense

>>20448379
communism is not an ideology, it's the independent movement of the working class whereby it unites to combat its class enemy

>>20448387
pure willful ignorance. you are completely disconnected from reality if you think communists arent communists because they have a specified ideological form towards which they intend to reshape society.

>>20448394
communists are communists because "they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat" and "always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole".
and there's no "ideological form" towards which they intend to reshape society. instead, they simply point out where capitalism is itself really heading due to its own inherent tendency, and point out that delivering this transition is what constitutes the common interest of the entire proletariat.
it's ironic to hear about willful ignorance when this is all clearly laid out in the first 300 words of chapter 2. of the Manifesto

>>20448374
Imagine giving this much of a shit that you spend time to find a gif that proves my statement that barely anyone had and still doesn't live in the Midwest (half of the continent that is still barely populated lol)from the late 1800s on and does nothing to prove your assertion that immigration correlates with the economic decline that happened in the 70s
Open a history book

>>20448428
>there's no "ideological form" towards which they intend to reshape society.
kek how do you pedal this bs with a straight face? communists are very explicitly clear about the manor in which they tend on suplanting capitalist modes of production and distribution, as well as their plans for social engineering virtually all aspects of human society according to their own dogma, from the very fabric of society in the family unit to peoples identities and values, in order to make way for the complete domination of class consciousness, which ironically isnt even the interests of 90% of real working class people. communism is absolutely an ideology, aka a set of doctrines or beliefs that are shared by the members of a social group or that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

you are lying through your teeth about your intentions in order to propagate your ideology. communism does not in any way have a monopoly on enabling the interests of the working class

>>20448458
kek what fucking worm you are. who said ANYTHING about the mid west or flyover states specifically? i sure didnt. youre literally pissing your pants and throwing a fit because you cant actually address my point so you have to make up strawmans to attack instead. pathetic

>>20448474
I did and to clarify I said the late 1800s immigration did nothing to populate and exploit the rest of the continent and still hasn't aside from mormons, bro
You somehow conflated "late 1800s" with the entirety of the 1800s I guess?
Your jewish pilpul obfuscation doesn't change that you guys were the ones that wrecked the economy in the 70s with neoliberalism, Mr goldberg

>>20448458
how does that porky boot taste? it must make you euphoric then porky lobbies the government who dumps 50 million new workers into your country to flood the marked with labourers and devalue labour

>>20448489
>that you guys
kek you literally cannot go one single post without completely manufacturing an opponent to attack.

Celebrate a strong, competent hierarchy. Reject the absence of it.

>>20448490
Seething
>>20448504
Just following your example in the hopes it'd make you understand

>>20448489
what exactly do you you consider "late 1800s?" because massive swaths of the west coast, now a major economic region, was only populated began its major infrastructural from 1870s onward

>>20448527
>Seething
yes the catastrophic subversion and exploitation of my people and the working class seems like something worth being genuinely upset about, I am absolutely seething at what you neoliberal attack dogs are enabling. do you seriously think im going to be ashamed about it?

>>20448531
Mid 1880s or so on when we were flooded with Euros and "melting pot" ideology, the west had been pretty well settled outside of areas that needed aquaculture
>>20448549
>neoliberal
Look that word up in a dictionary, please, holy shit, PLEASE open a history book

>>20448462
>communists are very explicitly clear about the manor in which they tend on suplanting capitalist modes of production and distribution
sure, but this is not reshaping society towards any ideological form invented by this or that thinker but towards society's own internal tendency
>as well as their plans for social engineering virtually all aspects of human society according to their own dogma
I don't know what "social engineering virtually all aspects of human society" is supposed to mean exactly, but whatever you're referring to is not according to any dogma, but according to actual material interests
>from the very fabric of society in the family unit to peoples identities and values
the family unit, peoples identities and values all change according to the changing economic organization of society, not according to dogma
>in order to make way for the complete domination of class consciousness
there's no such thing as the complete domination of class consciousness. class consciousness is the attribute of an advanced minority of the revolutionary class.
>which ironically isnt even the interests of 90% of real working class people
it is
>communism is absolutely an ideology, aka a set of doctrines or beliefs that are shared by the members of a social group or that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.
communism is not a set of beliefs, but a movement, and it doesn't form the basis of any system. also, a body of knowledge doesn't constitute ideology.
>you are lying through your teeth about your intentions
proof? communists are completely open about their intentions. read the Manifesto
>communism does not in any way have a monopoly on enabling the interests of the working class
it does, since it refers to the independent movement of the working class and the working class can only successfully pursue its interest if its organized independently of other classes

>>20448563
I know what neoliberal means and you are literally a neoliberal attack dog literally arguing in favour of neolibral policies meant to exploit the working class who has deluded yourself into believing you are actually a rebel because of your theoretical higher ambitions that will never manifest

>>20448265
>local McDonald’s close due to staff depletion
When in the history of McDonald's has this ever happened

>>20448579
>sure, but this is not reshaping society towards any ideological form invented by this or that thinker but towards society's own internal tendency
wrong. your entire conception of "society's own internal tendency" is in itself an ideological form created by "this or that thinker"
>but whatever you're referring to is not according to any dogma, but according to actual material interests
once again your entire conception of the interests of the working class is in its self an ideological dogma
>the family unit, peoples identities and values all change according to the changing economic organization of society, not according to dogma
economic organization of society is absolutely a part of the dogma and virtually all communist thinkers have theorized on ways to social engineer the populace in order to bring about that economic organization of society
>it is
it is not
>communism is not a set of beliefs
yes it is
>but a movement
based on a set of beliefs
>and it doesn't form the basis of any system
yes it does
>a body of knowledge doesn't constitute ideology.
communism is not just "a body of knowledge"
>proof?
literally ever communist has clear intentions of how society should be shaped
>it does
no it does not, communism is a very specific movement based on very specific ideological axioms and beliefs in what constitutes the interests of the working class. the working class can absolutely organize and assert its self independently of communism

>>20448600
This post is literally the literal saddest example of literal mental gymnastics on 4chan
Blame Reagan, Thatcher, and the rest of their ilk like Bill Kristol and Mitch McConnell dipshit, maybe you can pretzel your brain into viewing them as communists as well

>>20448661
>Blame Reagan, Thatcher, and the rest of their ilk like Bill Kristol and Mitch McConnell dipshit,
I do, and you are playing right into the hands of the likes of raegan by defending weaponized mass immigration of the late 20th and 21st century. you think youre some hot shit rebel fighting the system because you have big leftist ambitions, but when it comes down to how you subhumans actually influence politics, youre nothing but a dipshit being manipulated by feel good hippie nonsense to undermine the very people you claim to represent.

>>20448688
To paraphrase a gigantic retard, "kek what fucking worm you are. who said ANYTHING about defending weaponized mass immigration of the late 20th and 21st century specifically? i sure didnt. youre literally pissing your pants and throwing a fit because you cant actually address my point so you have to make up strawmans to attack instead. pathetic"

>>20448704
>who said ANYTHING about defending weaponized mass immigration of the late 20th and 21st century specifically? i sure didnt.
see
>>20448527
>>20448458
>>20448295
>>20448220

>>20448716
Now quote where I defended immigration lmao
You are seething so much over being told neoliberalism and not dem dirty browns are what fucked the economy in the 70s

>>20448704
mate you literally argued that mass immigration does not devalue labour lmao. the ghost of raegan who played a huge role in weaponized mass immigration and outsourcing of capital has his hand up your ass and is playing you like a puppet

>>20448731
Oh, you don't realize there are more than one poster, should have figured your brain was that smooth, continue as usual

>>20448729
>now quote where I defended immigration lmao
I already did, and you are literally doing it in this very post
>neoliberalism and not dem dirty browns
modern NeoLiberalism is virtually build on empowering the interests of private industry through weaponized mass immigration and outsourcing of capital

>>20448737
so which posts are yours then?

>>20448752
All the ones asserting that graph correlates with stagflation and the start of neoliberal policies and thereafter all the ones insulting you personally, not sure how you could take any of that as a defense of immigration at all, let alone tacit support of communism like you seem to think
Again
>quote, as in greentext then reply
Where you think I defended anything other than my right to argue with people I think are grossly incorrect

>>20448772
>and the start of neoliberal policies
and the absolutely key neoliberal policies include empowering private capital the outsourcing of capital and weaponized mass immigration in order to devalue labour, dipshit
>how you could take any of that as a defense of immigration at all,
you are literally defending immigration by asserting that it plays no role in the devaluation of labour. how can i NOT take that as defending immigration???

>>20446535
>successful socialist states
>socialism is when the government does stuff
If this were true, you’d have to ignore all of the contemporary European history. Which is probably what you do. Goddamn you’re stupid.

>>20446876
Here’s a perfect example for you in Bernie fucking Sanders.
He talks the talk, maybe even wants all those things, but in the end, he gets a little call from the FBI and he rolls over like the cuck he is to serve the neoliberal oligarchy agenda. Sending weapons to Ukrainian Nazis even. Yeahno, anon. He’s not my bro, not my comrade.

>>20447453
You talking about Europe here? Because the US isn’t doing that. They take advantage of cheap labor, but there’s draconian tight borders. You keep believing in those msm pundits tho.

>>20447508
>damage
Too many brown people in you brown/red man continent, whiteboy?

>>20447750
No. Not joking, I’m sure. Just plugged ass stupid