/lit/ - Literature

>>20417300
Somewhat based although there is a clear difference between a proper author and some faggot who just wants to write a story. You would also be surprised at the amount of people who have very little understanding of music theory and whatnot who try their hands at becoming a "producer" or "artist", a lot of what they make is just sampled (AKA plagiarized) "beats" for nigger noises (rap music). Visual art is different because a lot of people who do get into art just do it because they want to draw whatever they want - usually porn, fanart, or OCs.
Music and literature should really be gatekept more.

>>20417300
>But any asshole can write a story. It needs to conform to no standards outside of being grammatically coherent.
any retard can finger paint or poke random piano keys, seething pseud.

>>20417300
Writing fiction is the greatest form of intellectual activity you can engage in.
The other arts (drawing, music) have no technical barriers to entry and don't require a certain amount of practice and skill. Even in philosophy, you don't need to familiarize yourself with existing philosophical debates and say something logically coherent about them.
But not just anyone can write a story. It needs to conform to standards outside of being grammatically coherent. For that reason, I’ve always respected writers and whenever anyone calls themselves a writer I get hard.

>>20417300
To be good at anything takes technical knowledge and skill. I'm not claiming I have those things, but that's why I know that you're a mongoloid.

>>20417300
That makes little difference, though, when you consider that writing well still requires immense talent and practice. Nobody sets out to write shit. So the floor of entry being low does not matter when everyone is trying to shoot for the ceiling. At most you just get a lot more noise than you do in arts with higher floors, such as music or the visual arts.

>>20417341
Based

>>20417300
>Writing fiction is the lowest form of “intellectual activity” you can engage in.
At least it's an intellectual activity

>>20417300
>>20417325
reddit
>>20417340
based

>>20417300
Posting is the lowest form of “intellectual activity” you can engage in.
The other arts (writing, music, drawing) have technical barriers to entry and require a certain amount of practice and skill. Even in philosophy, you need to be able to familiarize yourself with existing philosophical debates and say something logically coherent about them.
But any asshole can make post. It needs to conform to no standards outside of being grammatically coherent. For that reason, I’ve never respected “posters” and whenever anyone calls themselves a “poster” I cringe hard.

You’re mistaking a crucial aspect of writing. Writing has both the lowest barrier to entry, but also the highest barrier to being enjoyable whatsoever. The most amateur music and amateur drawing or painting can have some sensual value, a repetitive rhythm or melody is intuitive and will be somewhat enjoyable to listen to, hell the most animalistic parts of us will enjoy just bright colors because they’re bright.

Literature however has the least sensual aspects, in my opinion the worst experiences of human artifice are found in literature but also the best, I say the worst because the worst of music and paintings at can gain a kind of grotesque beauty about them that makes them fascinating, like that shags philosophy of the world album. But writing, writings generic mode is boredom.

This is because all other arts can immediately take you to another kind of sensual experience, literature when it fails cant produce any aesthetic experience, it doesn’t produce any mental world of merit. And here’s the bigger problem with it.

The generic song and painting are enjoyable, they’re serviceable, the generic skilled author is absolutely boring, dreadful even; a chore. Even the authors who are considered the best societally, meaning by collective standards they’re in the top 1/10% of skill in the art, are often incredibly boring and uninteresting to a random group of people dependent on their specific tastes.

So what does this mean? It means the actual intellect, work, the hard effort, the artistry aspect of literature, is actually creating a piece of literature that is beautiful, and beautiful according to the aspects that writing allows. And I do not feel ashamed at all to say that whole literature has the lowest floor for quality and entertainment and beauty, it also has the highest power to take you into another world, to possess your mind and body, it has the highest potential for aesthetic pleasure. How many wars were fought by the sway of Bach or Mozart? No where near as many as have been swayed by prose, verse and spoken rhetoric formulated by the literary principles, and this is the source of all propaganda also. How many people have, having read Dante or Blake, or if you want to be unfair; the Bible, sutras, Vedas and so forth, been absolutely overwhelmed by the spirit of these texts, have cried over the beauty and meaning of these texts, have been satisfied with the lovely recitations and chanting of these texts, how many cultures have made the group recitations of stories in verse and plays a core to their societal structure?

Literature is, at once, the lowest barrier to entry but also the hardest to succeed at, it is at once the weakest of the arts and the mightiest of the arts.

>>20417341
Hello? Based department?

Officer Redpilled here

>>20417361
tripfag didn’t read

Writing fiction does have a low barrier to entry, but the skill limit is higher than many other disciplines. Visual art hit its limit before the modern age, which is why modern art is all garbage. But modern literature is able to express ideas and emotions unexpressed before in history if the author is skilled.

excelent quality bait op

>>20417300
Knowing how to structure sentences, word things, create symbolic images and give the right information at the right time is a very subtle art. You can do it well or poorly and I don't get how teenage girl A uploading shitty fanart to deviantart is passing more of a technical barrier than teenage girb B uploading shitty fanfiction to wattpad.

>>20417300
>Even in philosophy, you need to be able to familiarize yourself with existing philosophical debates and say something logically coherent about them.
Not even!

>>20417361
thank you bless'd sir

>>20417300
>Writing fiction is the lowest form of “intellectual activity” you can engage in.
Good, so?

>>20417300
>The other arts (drawing, music) have technical barriers to entry and require a certain amount of practice and skill
If you have literally any standards for literature, reading the work of people who haven't put the time in is literally equivalent to walking into Guitar Center and listening to compete beginners blast out-of-tune power chords at full volume from Marshall half-stacks. It's the exact same experience. The writing of someone whose only experience with the written language is through text messages is the EXACT SAME as the above. Any asshole can pick up an instrument and produce sound in the same way that anyone can pick up a pen and produce words. The quality of those sounds and words will vary dramatically.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

>>20417361
At first I was going to insult you for being a tripfag, but this is probably the best post I've read on this board all week

>>20417300
Your right. Any random schizo can write a novel and since a novels only quality is being able to be consumed quickly it might seem puzzling. For example reading Ted Hughes collected poems might take months its over 1300 pages. Whereas a novel can take 3 to 4 days. This shows another quality it is able to be read. This means that the writer made it readable.

Another readable genre of writing is one religious scriptures and philosophy books therefore you can complete them.

>>20417300
>The other arts (drawing, music) have technical barriers to entry
You have listened to little music, then, and don't have any idea about how current music software has lowered the entry bar to such a level that you must be a clinical retard not to create some kind of enjoyable musical work. In Studio One, for example, you can choose to use the E-minor scale and the software would only input the notes appropriate to the scale, that is, if you hit the wrong note, the software will adjust to the nearest note that is proper for E-minor. Have problems with chords? Captain Chords and Scaler to the rescue. Just download the plugins and choose and pick and drop what you want, no effort required. Can't sing in key? Melodyne, Waves Stereo Tuning, and Autotuning is there to fit your voice to the appropriate scale. Electronic music is a joke right now because everything within it has been simplified to allow every hillbilly to try his hand at becoming a super DJ; and many of them do become since the aim of contemporary music isn't technical virtuosity but the appeal to majority: basic songs, poorly mastered, quickly made, that infiltrate the brain thanks to a simple one bar long melody or catchy words.
Most of musical genres also allow a leeway for talentless people due to their disregard for melody or structure. Noise music doesn't need melodies. So do field recordings, minimal techno, contemporary psytrance, ambient, glitch, where it's normal and accepted to forego melodic content for pure sound design and rhythm. For a lot of contemporary music the requisite is to have a sense of rhythm; everything else is icing on the cake. You can make a 10 minute long techno track with the barest 4/4 rhythm and some rhythmically arranged sounds of top that modulate at the speed of a thawing glacier and still be played by DJ's and get gigs in Berlin if the combination is rhythmic, catchy enough.

>>20419214
As for literature, to know grammar is only the first step and, to judge by how the majority writes and speaks, a difficult one to master at that. Knowing grammar is the first step for literature since people don't read for correctly constructed sentences. To make good literature you must have a wide vocabulary and understand the nuances of words, how the usage of some words and idioms influences the text and the perception of the image the text through description erects; you must understand how to structure plot, how to move things from A to B in logical but escalating manner (even such "boring' books as Ulysses actually have a climax (Circe) followed by resolution, that is, a structure); you must understand how to make interesting and multifaceted characters that aren't reducible to a single stereotype; and, on a purely technical level, you must have a sense of melody and rhythm to make alternating short and long sentences that are euphonious to read. And this is basic stuff, without going into second order abstractions like metaphorical and allegorical construction where the story on one level means something else when viewed from another lens and sometimes can even mean multiple things - something neither art nor music can provide. See Ulysses, where a casual Dublin day is a actually a reenaction of the Odyssey.
Yes, everyone can write story, but no, not everyone can write a good story, which requires tremendous dedication and skill: an application of verbal knowledge and creativity: a marriage of abstract feelings with visceral words.
If you need to prove assert a difficulty ceiling level between, say, literature and music, check the age when musicians and writers become successful. I don't think a strenuous intellectual activity would bring success before thirties or even in the teens. Or talk to some musicians - this will make you realize they aren't the brightest bulbs in the shed.
To sum up, literature is the cheapest of all arts, requiring paper and pen at the barest, but it's tremendously difficult to master. Through words and the texture of sentences you need to create believable imaginary worlds that artists achieve through mere colours and musicians through mere organized tones.