/lit/ - Literature

>>>/mu/ and >>>/pol/

For me it's the Wesendonck-Lieder.
Spare me the operas and the essays.

>>20399948
Literally how is this off-topic at all?

>it has always seemed to be absurd to question Wagner's poetic gifts
- Thomas Mann

>>20399943
>Discuss the poet, novelist, essayist and philosopher Richard Wagner.
Okay, you start...

>>20399988
Nah, too much work. You guys can just do it for me.

The hated Richard Wagner

>>20399949
Wesendonck-Lieder is just watered down Tristan und Isolde.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6lRoIlXzdU

>>20399988
The incessant Wagnerite retard doesn't know how to discuss his cult figure. All he does is make a thread a day and post some quotes nobody cares about like here >>20399965
He cannot think for himself.

>>20399943
Hbd to the OG neckbeard

He looks like Stephen Fry

>>20399943
I recently read “Judaism in Music” and I think he made fantastic points about how the arts are inextricably tied with the culture and history of the nation and race. Outsiders cannot properly contribute and their attempts to are merely shallow replications of great works.

>>20399943
Who?

>>20400422
Judaism in Music is a great essay even if you don't agree with it. Check out What is German? too if you're interested in reading more of his essays.

>>20399943
Fuck this horrid anti-Semite.

>>20400422
How do you deal with the fact that numbers countless of the greatest artists were "outsiders". Or do you only take issue with the latter then they have a last name you enrage at?

>>20399943
When is he getting his chart?

>>20399943
Saw an interesting doco on him that you might like.
https://youtu.be/CvpIbfslS9w

>>20403768
Alright doco, but it goes too far with its Jungianism in completely unfounded statements like 'Wotan losing his eye symbolizes his lack of introspection' or 'Fricka represents Wotan's anima'.

>>20403801
You don't go far enough. That is one possible symbolic connotation. Its not the limit of what can be signified, just one possible interpretation.

For me its the finale of the first movement of Parsifal

>>20399965
dont pay mind to the reddit trolls on here

>>20399948
Wagner published far more than many writers commonly discussed here.

>>20399943
Wagner's depiction of the ur-incel was prophetic. It is the start of the avalanche that will bury the current corrupt order.

>>20404314
Virtually all of Wagner's villains are incels, and virtually all his heroes are sex-havers. These are fundamental categories for Wagner.

>>20404496
> virtually all his heroes are sex-haver
I don't know about this. Tristan's existence is basically that of a prolonged edging session. Parsifal remains pure. Also, Klingsor's problem is that he has too much sex.

Obviously Siegmund and Tannhäuser fucks, and maybe Siegfried and Walther as well; Though Sachs is portrayed as the ultimate sage and he is clearly a volcel.

>Please, Mr Wagner it's your birthday, don't mention da jooz™

>>20404563
Siegfried was definitely a virgin up until he met Brünnhilde. I mean when he first sees Brünnhilde and realizes she's a female he literally starts calling for his mommy. But yeah after that, he's definitely a sex-haver.

>>20404563
>Also, Klingsor's problem is that he has too much sex.
Wrong, it is biologically impossible for Klingsor to have sex.

KLINGSOR:

Your master.

KUNDRY:

By what power?

KLINGSOR:

Ha! Since only with me
does your power avail you nothing.

KUNDRY:
(laughing shrilly)

Ha ha! Are you chaste?

KLINGSOR:
(furiously)

Why do you ask this, accursed woman?

(He sinks into gloomy brooding)

Like Tristan, most of Wagner's heroes don't explicitly have sex on stage, but their status as a sex-havers is more important than that. Melot is jealous of Tristan, likewise Beckmesser fails horribly to woo. The third archetype is as you say, the volcel. But he is only the former hero, and this applies to Wotan, Marke, Sachs and Gurnemanz.

>>20403012
For his aesthetics:

The Destiny of Opera (lengthier continuation) --> Actors and Singers
The Music of the Future
On Poetry and Composition
On Opera Poetry and Composition in particular
On the Application of Music to Drama

For his politics:

Judaism in Music
What is German?

This is very basic, but it will serve as an introduction. His most important works being Art and Revolution, The Artwork of the Future, Opera and Drama, German Art and German Policy, Beethoven and Actors and Singers. But with the exception of Actors and Singers they're too be read last.

>>20400422
Is this the reason Wagner is censored in Israel?

I'm a bit resentful of Wagner. He was so fucking ugly yet espoused Cosima. She was too much for him, he didn't deserve her at all. Despite my attempts to get into his operas I never got any of them.

Overrated modernista. Was mediocre in everything he did, although he was a reasonable good poet. His music was pure modernist trash.

I love how Wagnerians are antisemites when Wagner was the biggest influence behind the Judaification of music later on. Mahler was entirely influenced by Wagner in his spree killing of harmony. Like Hitler, Wagner was the Jews' best friend. No one did more to Jewish music than Wagner.

>>20405774
Wagner influenced literally everyone. Including Nazi composers like Pfitzner and Strauss. Plus Mahler was a great composer.

>>20405774
What a laugh that Wagner influenced Mahler into being a cuck. Alma never met a stranger's cock she didn't like.

>>20404673
>Wrong, it is biologically impossible for Klingsor to have sex.
I meant before he castrates himself. He did it because he couldn't control his desire. Thought, I suppose it is possible that he was just jerking off. I don't think the details are ever mentioned.

>Until his final years, Wagner's life was characterised by political exile, turbulent love affairs, poverty and repeated flight from his creditors. His controversial writings on music, drama and politics have attracted extensive comment – particularly, since the late 20th century, where they express antisemitic sentiments. The effect of his ideas can be traced in many of the arts throughout the 20th century; his influence spread beyond composition into conducting, philosophy, literature, the visual arts and theatre.
expect to shills to hate him

>>20405765
It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>20407971
No one in /lit/ does.

>>20405695
https://youtu.be/eO7R4Etgg0Q?t=7108

>>20399943
Where do I start?

>>20399943
Do I have to learn German? How do I unto Parsifal

le neo-nazi philosophy website has you covered OP
https://counter-currents.com/2022/05/remembering-richard-wagner-may-22-1813-february-13-1883/

bach, beethoven, wagner, blumchen

>>20412592
Yes. Wagner claimed the Gesamtkunstwerk was only possible in German.