/lit/ - Literature

>>20377700
*in academic circles

Imagined Communities

>>20377700
Margaret mead

>>20377700
Darwin

Hobsbawm

everything by Marx and Engels

>>20377700
Arguably Popper's The Open Society and Its Enemies. The Plato volume uses selective quoting and bad translations to make his argument, and while I'm not on top of Marx enough to know whether that part of the second volume is bad, I know he uses bad English translations of Hegel's Philosophy of Right for his gotchas.

Probably Vlastos's books on Plato and Socrates as well. His attempt to get at the "historical Socrates" has too many assumptions carrying it along, and his argument against Socrates' understanding of love in the Symposium is almost literally "well, I don't love my wife like that, so he must be wrong."

Both are still treated as exemplary scholars.

>>20377700
>Post books that are outdated and full of motivated reasoning
Explain it

>>20377733
He just made shit up about early European Orientalists.

>>20377733
Writers who got away with passing their opinion as fact because they either existed in bubbles where no one challenged them or they outright lied using statistics/cherry picking/lying by omission.

>>20377737
He also lied about Europeans viewing the Arab world as weak and feminine. Europe was conquered and invaded by Arabs and Ottomans for 1000 years. No one except a few cumbrained pedophiles ever viewed the Islamic world as effeminate yet he chose to focus on a tiny group of so called Orientalists and painted them as the norm throughout history.

Discipline and Punish

frankfurt school and foucault

>>20377700
my Asian Religions professor was obsessed with this book and shilled in nonstop. I read it and uhh basically it's just
>muh westernism
>muh imperialism
>muh huwites dont understand eastern culture
blah blah blah, why does this rice monkey pretend that easterners dont do the exact shit to the west? do they understand Christ? have they ever tried to imperialise the West? fuck off you double standard having monkey APE!

The poor scholarship isn't even the most embarrassing thing about this book's reputation, it's that "orientalism" is a nakedly contradictory concept if you think about it for more than five minutes.

>>20377700
It’s always the most Westernised cuck poc who write this type of shit.

The Golden Bough
The White Goddess
An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution of the United States
The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire

>>20377700
It's been thoroughly refuted by a number of serious studies from the late 1990s till today. Academics realize it's weak, see merit in some parts, but demolished it's main contention.

>>20377750
He's still the main authority on numbers, estimating it was 4.8-5.2 million, and he was blocked by Hannah aren't who plagiarized his work.

Lucy davidowitz is the one who was destroyed

>>20377758

He was prophetic if you look at things from another perspective. The way the US talked about Arabs and the Arab world following 9/11 fits Said's model of Orientalism to a T.

>>20377700
Any book on the history of “Canada”

>>20377705
Isn't that book more of a call for neo-regionalism than a pro-globohomo propaganda piece?

>>20377700
This is not treated as serious scholarship, but it is taken seriously.

>>20379358
No, the author was a Marxist and a creepy sexpat.

>>20377750
Arguably Hilberg is the most reasonable of all the holocaust historians. Like another anon said, Arendt was super mad and he also defended Norman Finkelstein when he became a persona non grata in israel. His estimate is also below the current official numbers and he didn't shy away from treating the collaborators as a very real force in the whole process and he also noted the lack of any real resistance.

>>20377700
It isn't taken seriously anymore but back when it came out it was huge and practically singlehandedly created the genre (and discourse) of intellectually dishonest books that are variations on the theme of "you think badthink because you're gay, afraid, and a dumb-dumb, if you were mentally sound you would think goodthink".

>>20377743
...and who created books to suit an agenda, rather than coming to the conclusions they profess in their works on the basis of their own observations, without any ulterior motive. A decent example at hand is Said writing Orientalism to intellectually justify the then-nascent third worldism of the american left.

>>20379173
did you actually read it? the thesis was the "orient" is a social construct that exists in western literature. i always wondered why isn't wasn't required reading in my history degree since i was specializing in asia, but then i finally read after i graduated out of curiosity since some english major white chick told me it would show me that i could never understand asia, but then i read and find out the guy's actual argument is that the east doesn't exist except in old books. i don't think that chick even understood it. now i realized they never assigned it because it's lit theory for the english department not historians. it's actually interesting but strictly as literary theory.

turns out gould was the one doing the mismeasuring. when he finally croaked, people had to admit it was all bogus. even the nytimes did a story on it.

>>20379285
if it got "demolished" it was only because said was known to criticize our number one ally

>>20377700
anything written by a jew ever

>>20377750
>>20379520
this paragraph is from ''Brave New Wrold'', just as an illustration of how jewish lies from the 40s and before stained the minds of people with lies and distorted reality

>>20379520
Hahah, is this something from deMause? He always has whacky shit going on.

>>20379534
nooooooooooo the truth goes against the pedophile Jewish establishment SO WACKY

>>20379485
Why is it bad?

>>20379541
No i like deMause, I just think its whacky what we human beings do, I mean his psychoanalysis sucks but he gathers together a lot of interesting tidbits about child rape in primitive cultures. As you well know.

ITT /pol/cucks post books that make them seethe

ITT fragile chuds who cannot take criticism in the least

>>20377728
Hate that book. Although for me its more like a praise of Hegel(and Marx), because of the hate they get in it. They sound way cooler and dangerous than they are.

Same thing for liberal thinker Issiah Berlin. Like why are you making me like reactionary irrationalists even more, Issiah?

>>20379173
Your professor should have played a "le Church is ebil" JRPG.

Also asians themselfs say that compared to the West, all their culture is folklore.

Margaret Mead is still sometimes taken seriously.

>>20379425
>"you think badthink because you're gay, afraid, and a dumb-dumb, if you were mentally sound you would think goodthink".

Six decades later, this is now the lynchpin of American domestic policy at all levels.

>>20379425
They should’ve known the f scale wasn’t working when a) they filled it with items that you would only pass if you were a member of the Frankfurt school and b) actual authoritarians were scoring lower than average people

Bump.

>>20380343

>>20379443
>A decent example at hand is Said writing Orientalism to intellectually justify the then-nascent third worldism of the american left.
Hilarious but true, I read a slightly poporientated book on Toetankhamon, with long excerpts from diaries, books, newspapers, essays, etc suddenly I read this hysterical piece, chocking on resentment, I check out the name, its Said. If that is one essay, then I dont want to know what junk he else produced.

>>20379321
He is not prophetic, if he creates a confused stereotype and this then becomes real through the medium of academia, then that is simply the result if his ideas being adopted nothing more.

>>20377700
Whats wrong with this? I was finna boutta read it

>>20382017
>becomes real through the medium of academia

Yeah, it was the academics who legitimized Orientalism post-9/11 and not rednecks insisting that they are eating "freedom fries" and that brown people are scary jihadist goat fuckers living in an exotic wasteland. I'm sure the racialization of and discrimination against Arabs was entirely because Jim Bob felt moved by all the critical theory he was reading.

>>20382042
Wh*te fingers typed this post.

>>20382042
I haven't read it but isn't Said concerned with high culture? Does he go through folk literature?

>>20377719
>invents tradition
>refuses to elaborate further
>leaves

>>20382060

and retard faggot fingers typed this one.

>>20382042
>Yeah, it was the academics who legitimized Orientalism post-9/11 and not rednecks insisting that they are eating "freedom fries" and that brown people are scary jihadist goat fuckers living in an exotic wasteland. I'm sure the racialization of and discrimination against Arabs was entirely because Jim Bob felt moved by all the critical theory he was reading.
Yes, "the right" is a product of leftwing academy. To insist otherwise is to imply a poor and undereducated group can have an influence of the media, higher education and politics, which is absurd.

>>20382060
White, but also a pansy bugmen.

>>20379352

Not even a real country. Look, they either don't care or want us to invade. We'll sack Toronto in 3 days and be greeted as liberators.

>>20377700

You have the king there already.

It breaks my heart but Hayek's The Road to Serfdom could use a serious overall. It's more like the Road to France. There's some truth to the Laffer Curve which claims that high tax rates can negatively impact tax revenue. So you don't end up with serfdom, you end up with a bloated state hobbled by various deals made with interest groups.

>>20382042
what makes white people this enamored with brown people who would behead them the first chance they could? What makes people feel this much responsibility for apologizing on behalf of a group that hates their guts?

>>20382328
Seculiarised Christianity and resentment towards high culture.

>>20382328

what makes you assume white people are the only people on the internet with opinions about brown people, you dumb gringo nigger

>>20382387
His language is very much that of a white person and only white people with a severe case of false consciousness are passionate enough about the matter to go as far as to apologize with that much fervor on behalf of brown people, for free, against anonymous mean people on the internet.

>>20377758
>t.knows nothing about history

>>20379425
why does this book make right wingers seethe so much? there's already two anons doing it

>>20382417
Even people who are into the frankfurt school think that book is doodoo and Adorno's lowest point.

>>20382417
Because its two things, a direct attack on us, a twisting of the truth depicting peace lovers as authoritarians.

>>20382398

Well, you're wrong, lmao. I'm brown. Not Arab brown, but brown. Womp, womp. Consolation prizes for you. Back to the drawing board with your theory, I guess.

>>20382529
>Consolation prizes for you. Back to the drawing board with your theory, I guess.
Question, if I told you you have betrayed your heritage by talking like an west-coast liberal and adopting their values, what would you say.

>>20379520
>we are all one race, the human race

>>20382577
This statemen is empty and does not change the differences between twp human groups.

>>20377700
>Butler, Dworkin, Greer, Solanas (Feminism)
>Foucault (Antipsychiatry)
>Freud (Media Theory)
Foucault probably the worst of them in terms of actual scholarship. He just fabricates information wholesale.

>>20382575

"West coast"--bold of you to assume that I live in Burgerland. And that I'm a "he." You keep missing every punch, which is surprising, because you don't even understand the theoretical texts you're trying to take ownership over (and that you probably haven't even read). Your transference is showing, and it says an awful lot about you, anon.

>>20382675
>bold of you to assume that I live in Burgerland.
I didnt, I said you sound like an west-coast liberal, I didnt say you came from the West coast.

You try to sound smart, but you arent even able to understand what someone wrote down.

Awnser me this question, if you are brown why choose to reject your heritage for outdated yuppie academic leftism?

>>20382675
>And that I'm a "he."

C A L C U T T A

A

L

C

U

T

T

A

>>20382729

>Awnser me

>>20377758
Conquered is a very light word faggot. The Muslims in the west got their shit pushed in by Charles Martel at Tours and never came back from it, and the Ottomans had their line drawn in the sand at Vienna. The Slavs annihilated the steppe Muslims.

>>20382742
If you are unable to awnser questions and selfreflect, then you are not human. Have a nice day.

>>20382903

not even the anon you're replying to but why bother engaging in bad faith conversation where the other party is just going to keep moving the goal posts? it's pretty clear what you're trying to do.

>>20377700
The /lit/ canon.

>>20382339
>>20382328
Historically, the French and the Jesuits viewed the Ottomans as a counterbalance to Britain, Germany, and Russia.

My copy of Tokugawa Religion begins with a foreword where the author explains how the sociological theories he based much of the book around have since been proven to be false, and that all of the analytical portions of the book should be looked at as more of a time capsule of academic thought in the 1950s. He maintains that most of the info is still accurate and that the book can still be used as a resource, just that the analysis of why these beliefs were formed/how they affect modern Japanese culture should be disregarded. Honestly, it made me respect Bellah a lot as an academic.

>>20377700
>The greatest intellectual impact of Orientalism (1978) was upon the fields of literary theory, cultural studies, and human geography, by way of which originated the field of Post-colonial studies. Edward Said's method of post-structuralist analysis derived from the analytic techniques of Jacques Derrida and Michel Foucault;
You just know it's going to be awful. No need to read any further.

>>20382339
> modern whitoids
> high culture

>>20377700
Said also had an infamous meltdown over Jane Austen and Mansfield Park supposedly promoting slavery and white supremacy

>>20382339
If it was secularised Christianity then why don’t whitoids still feel bad about the countless of other major sins they commit in their daily lives like homosexuality, fornication, births out of wedlock, abortion?

> The Didache, an ancient church order, which most scholars believe was written in the late first century CE, around the same time as the canonical gospels. The Didache, section two, includes a long list of various sins that Christians should not commit, in apparently descending order of severity:

> “You will not murder. You will not commit adultery. You will not sexually exploit adolescent boys. You will not have illicit sex. You will not steal. You will not practice magic. You will not use drugs or poisons for occult purposes. You will not murder a child in an abortion, nor will you kill what is begotten. You will not covet the things of your neighbor. You will not swear falsely. You will not testify falsely in court. You will not speak evilly. You will not bear grudges.”

Why do they just care about racism? It’s not even listed as a major sin in the bible or the early church lol

Whitoids don’t feel guilty and never have. What they feel is pressure from society not to be the typical assholes they are and they have to obey because they’re absolutely scared of nigs and browns. Although once in a while one lashes out and thinks he’s brave for killing a bunch of nig women and children.

>>20383496
>pressure from society
My nigga, "whites" are society. What do you think you're rebelling against when you slip balloons down your shirt? Whites.

>>20377700
Bump

>>20383452
If you dont think high culture and white people are the same, then you come from the lower classes of society.

>>20382922
>why bother engaging in bad faith conversation
For my audience. The non-white leftist/rightist has to be constantly humiliated and beaten down, anything elss they will not accept.

>>20383496
>If it was secularised Christianity then why don’t
Because its seculiarised christianity, not christianity duh. Real stupid question. Mud.

>>20377700
>that entire post
ESL moment

it's treated seriously in academic circles because it was written seriously and the foundations are unassailable.

>>20377700
>>20377705
>>20379192
>>20379193
>post books that make me seethe because they trample on my shallow internet ideologies
>>20377758
Jesus Christ you're an imbecile

>>20384924
>shallow
Academic neoliberalism that teaches resentment ideology is shallow and future generations wil treat it the same as any other totalitarian ideology from Jacobinism too Communism.

>>20384899

I know most of the people on this board pretend to be retarded, but it makes me sad when I run across someone like you who is genuinely retarded.

>>20385227
When you call someone retarded it really means you think we are smarter then you, otherwise you would explain why we are retarded. Go ahead, explain why the only sensible solution isnt going on the attack.

>>20385242
>smarter then you
>then

>>20385291
Wut, cant arque your position, guess that makes you dumb.

>>20385330

why are autists so obsessed with people debating them

is this ben shapiro's fault

>>20385450
Lol lefties cant debate, they think using reverse psychology doesnt make them appear like feminine babies.

Anything written by a Jew.
Anything written after 1945.

Guns, Germs and Steel is probably the biggest offender though. It is taken as gospel by (((academia))) but has been repeatedly proven to be wrong.

>>20377700
>outdated and full of motivated reasoning
That's every non-fiction literary work ever, anon
Brains are cheap, you know, you should get one

>>20377758
But anon, ISIS and MAGA is exactly what happens when repressed effeminate faggots have to try to pretend to masculinity
Burgers at least used to be masculine until their main source of calories became soft drinks in hormone-imbalancing plastic

>>20379280
>The Golden Bough
What makes it bad scholarship? Or did you list it because it's outdated?

>>20385567

a baby with a G E N D E R ???

how DARE you

that's idpol speak

>>20377728
>his argument against Socrates' understanding of love in the Symposium is almost literally "well, I don't love my wife like that, so he must be wrong."
This is also just the methodology of all of anglo ethics

>>20385824
Yes, saying random and insane things is a discussion....

>>20386160

>a discussion

you're on 4chan

>>20385761
He had a conclusion and manipulated the data to fit his conclusion

>>20386166
Are you going to continue saying meaningless shit?

>>20377728
>his argument against Socrates' understanding of love in the Symposium is almost literally "well, I don't love my wife like that, so he must be wrong."
That is a good argument. If you make a universal judgment on love, a singular judgment showing the contrary is sufficient to negate it.

>>20379425
>when it came out it was huge and practically singlehandedly created the genre (and discourse) of intellectually dishonest books that are variations on the theme of "you think badthink because you're gay, afraid, and a dumb-dumb, if you were mentally sound you would think goodthink".
Anon, you are describing Nietzsche.

>>20386196
Well, he doesn't show any logical contrary tho. From the point of view of Socrates in the Symposium, love for people is really love for one's own good. To Vlastos, he worries that that means his love for his wife isn't separate from what he thinks is good for him, which sounds to him like no one can love selflessly. The rejoinder in the Symposium would be, "well, you chose THIS person and don't love her as though she were equally worth selflessly loving as anyone, so it must be for something you sed contributes selfishly to your own good." But Vlastos doesn't engage with any of it, he just says "but I feel like this is different and special, therefore you're wrong" and leaves it at that.

It's not even an argument, which is surprising given how autistic he is in evaluating the logic of everything else in Plato.

>>20386179

as long as you keep getting tilted, yea

>>20386414
You are dumb.

>>20377700
Anything by Derrida.