/lit/ - Literature

is there another /wg/ civil war going on?

>>20345513
disappointed that cat pic isn't a webm

Emily anon here.

Someone downloaded my book when I put it out for free on kindle for a limited time! Wow!

So anons, where have you published?

>>20345522
Sure sounds fun!

>>20345513
Is that Wish Mountain?

1/3

2/3

3/3

>>20347394
>>20347399
>>20347403

This is just something I came up with a couple nights ago and I'm thinking of expanding it and making the courthouse-cave the central setting/tale rather than preamble to something else - which could also be interesting.

>>20345593

Nice, you'd be surprised how far an anon book with an evocative title/cover can go even with virtually zero marketing. Congrats

Do the anons from /crit/ still frequent this thread? Seems like this general has changed a lot since the last time I posted.

In March 2021, I decided to take a year long break from writing. I think it's going to be permanent. Writing is too difficult and time consuming. My ego is incredibly fragile. I can sort of deal with people shitting on my writing, but I can't deal with the personal attacks. Enough people tell me I'm stupid/ignorant as it is.

>>20347686
So what do you do with your spare time, then?
Just sit on your dead butt, watch TV, and play video games?
I don't expect my writing to go anywhere, or for anyone to warm up to it, but at least I'm not just vegetating.

>>20347686
I hope you didn't do so after receiving negative feedback from these retards. They're pointlessly critical and usually unskilled in their own work. Trust me -- you're better off sticking with it and making incremental progress. I've been published in dozens of magazines, but only because I stuck through the worst patches.

bump

What are some unique cities I can base my fantasy city on besides the cliche London/Paris/New York examples?

>>20348810
Are you looking for large cities only?

>>20348810

Detroit is one of the most unique cities in America... Was basically run by the French for 100 years and had very distinct culture from New England pioneers, was the "arsenal of democracy" in WW2, went to Hell after the 60s and is now very clean and futuristic looking.

>>20345513
pic is me

BUMP

>>20349462
There's the other same thread, but it's undergoing a stupid shitstorm right now

Honestly I just accidentally made this thread before checking to see if another one had been made while the old thread was on page 9 without a new thread linked.
Let it die.

>>20345513
once upon a time there was a mouse named George. George! his mother would call when it was time to get up for school. George would get up andeat hisbreakfast very quickly so as not to be late. One day he realised he could fly, unlike other mice. So he flew to school and on the way there he robbed a bank and died in the ensuing fight with the police. R.I.P. George the mouse the end.

Thoughts?
>>20350921

>>20345522
What's the point of creating duplicate threads? There was a similar situation on /adv/ with some fuck always posting a second version of the 'ask the opposite gender anything' thread, with the only difference being that one thread had a long and annoying FAQ section. The threads were slightly different. But what's the point of posting the same exact thread as in this case here?

>Nobody here writes.
>Nobody here reads.
>If you describe something you're engaging in purple prose.
>If you don't describe something you suffer from aphantasia.
>You shouldn't describe anything ever anyway because show, don't tell.
>Inner monologues are an old-timey crutch. Nobody should have thoughts, just like in real life.
>Trad publishing is the only way to be a real writer.
>Make sure to have a gay tranny nigger romance in your story, otherwise you won't be trad published.

>>20351818
Just Write bro

>>20347426
In case you migrated here already, I reviewed your other thing:
>>20352045

- words are cheap, delete delete delete, or better yet make a document called “graveyard” where you cut and paste everything you’ve written you either don’t like or don’t believe fits in the story
-if you’re a good writer you’ll have good taste, if you have good taste then you’ll immediately hate everything you’ve written the many first times you do, delete delete cut and paste in graveyard and keep rewriting until it becomes acceptable to YOU
- if you don’t like your writing that means you know you could have done better. Take yourself up on that bet.
- words ARE CHEAP
- have pride in the amount of pages you’ve trashed
- look up Kurt Vonnegut’s 8 rules for writing
- editing is rewriting the whole thing from scratch.
-Trying to fix a rough draft by focusing on correcting grammar issues is like polishing a turd.
- WORDS ARE CHEAP FUCKING DELETE THAT SHIT AND START AGAIN

>>20352842
Forgot to mention up top I’m a master writer

>>20352842
>>20352847
Don't listen to this advice. Get it all out in the outline, an outline is just a first draft but more malleable. Once you know everything that happens, write, and edit as you write. Then do a final pass and trash or merge scenes. Treat your time with respect, and don't be too self-critical. However kill your darlings twice: once in the outline, then again when choosing which scenes to keep or trash.
(I am also a professional writer, and the point of this comment is that there is no single method to writing success, if you think otherwise you are limiting yourself.)

>>20352881
Don’t listen to this advice. Every author you’ve looked up to has had to write a shitton before getting as good as they are now, some have been writing non stop since they were teens. Not saying it’s too late but you have to put in the pages, put in the words, I never said don’t outline I also outline myself but even the outlines I’ll trash and rewrite. Rewrite rewrite rewrite anyone who says otherwise is coping

>>20350957
lel
>>20351818
seethe
>>20352842
show us the writing that demonstrates your mastery

>>20351581
Most likely the OP of this one mistakenly thought the previous one had hit bump limit already.

what is the story to my romantic lain concept album?

>>20353079
Boy meets girl.
Boy loses girl.
Boy makes new girl out of spare parts.

How do I write niggers like they’re people without making them too white?

>>20353695
Just write white characters then turn them black. Unless you're writing your characters like, "He inspected his whiteness, basking in his pink Caucasian lack of melanin, as his thick blond hair colonized the air" you'll be fine.

>>20353000
>show us the writing that demonstrates your mastery


It needs some grammar work issues to get fixed but here’s the first two episodes to my philosophy themed comic

First episode of my cartoon
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JlNiNOHvPvW35jsoHjyk3lDVR3UMBkEH/view?usp=drivesdk

Second episode

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pHx7i3mxXKfrKDqtLVNg2cMYc-J8__TH/view?usp=drivesdk

Sup lads.

Link to RR page:
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54100/wish-mountain-adventure-drama-fantasy-tragedy

Link to Chapter One audio version:
https://vocaroo.com/1dFNbU4vbMZ6

Link to Chapter Two audio version:
https://vocaroo.com/140a0c1kYB1U

I'd recommend for anyone that isn't interested in video-gamey fantasy and 'magic systems', in a lot of ways its the opposite of a power-fantasy litRPG. If semi-grounded fantasy with a major focus on characters (as opposed to constant high stakes plot) is to your interest, check it out.

I put this in the other thread too. I used a random first sentence generator. For the first time in my life I’m trying my hand at fiction. D-do u think I have potential? ToT
> It was a chance meeting on a film-set. “Film-set” is pretty generous. There’s never enough money for indie work and what the meager budget could swing resembled something more similar to a blue collar neighborhood drama club’s backdrop than what the average imagination conjures when picturing a set. Pay for the day included a “the experience” and a Wendy’s 4 for 4.

I worked out my issues with prose. I think I was better at getting poems accepted because they take less space AND they take less time to finish. Prose, on the other hand, takes Herculean effort for me to get right. I am envious of prosechads, but if I can put more time and effort in, I may be able to learn how to do it somewhat properly.

What are your writing plans for today, dubyah gee?

>>20354793
Not today dear, I have a headache.

>>20354639
I'd recommend looking into phonetics. Helped me with my prose a lot. Learning what words to stress to make a sentence feel 'whole' to the ear really helps me. It takes time to do re-draft but the writing becomes a lot tighter as a result.

>>20354793
Working on chapter 16 of my book.

>>20350242
The poetry really sucks, and it seems like you want it to be good. Like the rest of the piece, and despite the imperious tone you've chosen to adopt, there's very little sense of the lyricism and rhythm and flow from which the justification for the previously mentioned "imperious" tone is drawn. Reading this is like watching a toddler put on daddy's shoes and try to walk around. I really, really, really dislike the prose.

Would you rather write a book to then be raped by Hollywood adaptation, or to never have written at all?

>>20354980
I was thinking about this and I think the best way to get around a Hollywood rape adaptation is to make the book public domain before you die. That way people will adapt it (assuming its good/popular already).

Look at all the Alice and Wonderland movies, or Peter Pan movies. Most of them suck but there are a few good ones. I wouldn't mind having my book adapted yearly like A Christmas Carol.

>>20354980
If a Hollywood adaptation of my book was ever made, I'd want my hands in EVERY piece of the pie from storyboarding to casting to the final cut. I wouldn't take a dime of pay for my efforts if that's what it costs me to get it done.
At the least, if I had to choose between them, better to have a book that is praised as being superior to the Hollywood adaptation than to have no book at all.

>>20354980
Yes.

>>20355003
I feel the same way about my work. If it ever got scooped up I'd settle for nothing less than the best director, best casting, best vfx/set pieces/etc... I'd want 100% creative control and/or input over everything. I don't care how much of an asshole I might sound like after they've drafted up a scene five times and I've told them repeatedly it looks nothing like it should.

>>20354793
My hands and arm muscles got so fatigued I couldn't even hold the keyboard anymore without feeling like puking and crying. Starting to feel better after resting a week, but really, what the fuck, I've never heard of anything like this happening to any other writer ever

>>20355089
I'll be agreeable on adaptation techniques of book to film, since there is a transition of medium, but on the fundamental tenets of the story I don't think I'd budge. Since most my body of work is in very large groups of books, a film wouldn't be enough time to fully adapt my vision. Some anon here mentioned an Aristotle quote that says the length of the work increases with its intended scope, or something. I try to keep that in mind as I plan out my work.

>>20354980
Nobody will ever adapt my writing to film, so I'm not worried. It's just not adaptable because it is so heavily tied to the medium of literature itself. Plus, it makes no sense. It's just a constant modulation of patterns in search of the sublime. If the sublime could just be transposed across media, sublime art would be commonplace.

Nobody's going to want to even read it, much less turn it into film.

>>20355089
>I'd settle for nothing less than the best director, best casting, best vfx/set pieces/etc
I'd settle for no niggers.

>>20355235
>>20355180
Much of the story I'm writing hinges on the protagonist's inner monologue and the emotions tied to that, which makes me wonder how it would even work in any other medium. I also despise the current media agenda to diversify everything they get their hands on for no reason so that would be pretty infuriating too.

>>20355089
they messed up the "wheel of time" tv show
if they can mess that up, they can mess up anything
only j.k. rowling had enough clout to get the movies made the way she wanted.

>>20345513
Why can I never finish anything? I wrote over 100,000 words on my novel, (though I knew it would need a rewrite) but I get to within 3-8 chapters of the climax and ending, and I just stop, can't bring myself to finish, can't figure out how to make the last pieces fit.
So I start a rewrite, using the original as draft. This time I get to 50,000 words and stop.
Why am I like this? How can this be fixed?

What's up guys, quick question: is 'cloistered away' or 'secluded away' (not 'away FROM') a valid construction ? 'Secluded away, I started investigatin the properties of...'

>>20355504
The away is redundant and sounds wrong because it's redundant, it's unnecessary even so it sounds off.

>>20355496
Because you enjoy failure because what drives you isnt the product itself, but the "praise", attention, and urging you get from other people. Stop being a bitch boy and get it done.

>>20355588
But I've never gotten any attention or praise. :(
But I am definitely a bitch boy.

Isn't it kind of a brainlet move to revise, edit, write a 2nd draft, etc. when you could have just gotten in right the FIRST time? The Japanese have a management system named Kan Ban that stresses not making mistakes, because fixes are non-value added. Maybe we should develop something like that for writing.

>>20355644
You're always constantly editing. I doubt you're not deleting lines and fixing grammar as you write.

>>20355504
Secluded from
Cloistered
If it's dialogue though,

What do you guys think?

My characters cry very easily. So much so they're crying in back to back chapters. But I don't think I can really get across how they're really feeling if I don't have them bawling tears. Other characters in the story wouldn't cry unless they're really brought to the edge.

I don't know. I think about One Piece and Oda has his characters cry these big exaggerated crying faces, and it works because thats what the characters need to be doing to get across the emotions they're feeling. The Japs aren't very subtle in their performances.

>>20355968
My first thought is cut half the word count at least.

How fast do you type anons? How many words per minute?
https://www.typingtest.com/

>>20356103
What is this autistic image? Did you make this?

>>20356103
I spent a good few minutes contemplating that image. I imagined an advanced alien race picking up the lion king cast and taking them to a far off planet, experimenting on them to give them human level intelligence. Of course the alien race also meddled with xenos, and an outbreak happened.

At the same time a human mercenary vessel has come to explore the same planet, and they all get slaughtered. Then the lion king cast decide their best change to escape is to take the mercenary vessel back to earth.

But they can't go back to earth with xenos on board...so they pilot the ship into the nearest sun and that's how it ends.

>>20345513
Last thread was archived before I could elaborate.
>Fuck being a social recluse. I don't have enough experiences to write plot, characters, or dialogue that don't sound undeniably autistic.
I focus too much and daydream about world building, but can't create characters or relatable stories. On top of not understanding conversations, my writing would suffer.
An anon mentioned reading books to fill the gap. Any recs for dialogue, characterization, and creating plot with logical cause and effect scenarios? I'll critique writing in exchange

>it's the writer channels the anxiety and depression that followed after his ex-gf broke up with him episode

>>20347686
Didn't you already post this?

>>20356103
This speed has little practical use for my writing though, because ideas don't come as fast as transcription.

>>20356187

>>20347686
Getting sick of this writing style

Why don't you just show me next time, instead of telling me

>>20356463
>average typist: 36
I refuse to believe this for reasons you've exactly stated. Ideas don't come as fast as transcription.

Why yes my main character is called Aaori and they are from the realm of Saytorak. They have harnessed the power of the Kalatessi and are on their way to become a master Phromkrostalikiso (Vadaa Order). The Kodiemaesisila (the enemy clan) will stop at nothing to bring an end to the realm, and the wider Molodusauraienata way of life.

Ultimately the story will be the telling of the first Medeijdseaa and will eventually lead into a final epic conclusion where the Ideianasjenaseausehaseasiea face off against the Vrosijdiejdaiseiajeiaoeuaqowieuaowieuawsehwoiehawoehawoiehawoiehaoiwehoiawheoawiheaoiwehxwoeiwueweuybwa9p8eup98euepuabw.

>>20354315
>Card
>Not webnovel
>>20355977
>One Piece and Oda has his characters cry these big exaggerated crying faces, and it works
It's also a teen comic. You can be more subtle in writing.
>>20356527
My dad who has no computer types even slower.

>>20356576
>You can be more subtle
You can also not. Subtlety isn't inherently more mature.

My life has been so crazy the last 3 weeks (sick, kids sick, work work work) that I've probably eeked out 1k words total.

Just went on warosu to be heartened by some old positive feedback I got from /wg/ anons - I won't give up, I will return to write again, and I hope you lurkers do too.

>>20354364
Write something with a plot, or at least a character. This is impossible to critique, anon, I'm not sure what you'd like me to say.
>>20354980
Write and rape. What do I care about some directors board fanction based on my work?
In any case, this is a bad question to ask in a writing general . People should be writing, not daydreaming about how muh creative control they would get over the animated series based on the book series that they never wrote because they were too busy daydreaming.
>>20356175
What do you like to read, anon? What genres, what plots?
>>20356572
Ok

Wondering if should release smaller book first to get audience aware of my name or to get first large book out to land with a splash.

>>20356572
For me, it's WASP names and places.

>>20356723
Wasp?

>>20356727
White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.

>>20356727
Berkleyshire, Channelview, Brooksbury, etc.

A few months ago someone said that some writing of mine was banal; have I improved?

Right now an event similar to the crisis of the 17th century is occurring. The king of O'eda Grion of Soorina Hasov has plans to send an army to their lands in the Ingomet of Algio. There are rumors circulating in the Algian court that the minister of war has plans to reconquer the land as a means of raising revenue to prevent the barbarians (the Frooqie) to the west from raiding. In the east, the Cathrian Empire is experiencing internal turmoil as after a long line of kings acting more as puppets of the nobles as well as the Tumol mercenaries being very fond of choosing their very own king the empire is beginning to feel civil strife. Ultimately the empire will fall at the end of the century due to Tumol uprisings because of a lack of pay, a Veranian invasion into their heartland, and the people viewing themselves less as Cathrian and more of their own ethnic group

>>20356743
this HAS to be a redo of this
>>20356572
right?

>>20355968
I think you should do anyone who has the displeasure of reading your "writing" the basic courtesy of a cursory proofread for grammar at the very least.

>>20356743
>Right now an event similar to the crisis of the 17th century is occurring
These words are filler, they don't pay their rent:
>Right now an event similar to is occurring
Do you need to clarify that the crisis of the 17th century is "an event"? Do you need to specify that it's "right now"? Given that it's an event, and that it's right now, might the reader already know that it "occurs"?
Consider:
>The crisis of the 17th century is repeating itself.
You have to knead your sentences, you have to remodel them until they sing.
Become allergic to redundancy so you can prune it when it pops up.

>>20356743
Have you ever read a book?

>>20356816
no

>>20356830
Try reading a book before writing.

>>20356835
no

Anyone know good Contemporary literature to study for writing dialogue? I know that sounds like a contradiction, but classic literature only contains old fashioned manners of speaking. If I want to write a young adult in a modern day setting, I can't have him sounding like he's from 100 years ago. So is there any good resources anons suggest? I don't want the characters to sound jarring in their respective setting.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DRlv01MC7xhMr06IDZ-Y1BBDQkuc7cdsb34GJe5JFwU/edit?usp=sharing

Hell-Anon here, working really hard right now on establishing the tone in the first section better. Rewriting/renaming some of the early chapters. Amara leans in even harder with the knife I think, and it makes her seem pretty cruel.

>>20353286
Thank you Anon, the aspect of being one of the downtrodden in Hell is meant to be the source of so much of the dread and anxiety. It's possibly a bit of social commentary on my part, that the version of Hell I've concocted is one where it's only Hell in relation to others and how you spend that eternity. There's a coldness and indifference to the Hell I'm trying to write. There isn't a themed amusement tour of bespoke punishments catered towards each individual's particular blend of sins or vices or crimes. They don't have the resources for that. It's basically just getting kicked to the curb and left to establish yourself. I want to present the idea of that as being pretty daunting, especially for such a disaffected generation as our own. The idea of working endlessly to uphold a nameless, faceless oligarchy in Hell, and to support an economy that allows the hyperrich and hyperbeautiful to exist in Paradise, always within view.

>>20356968
go outside and talk to people.

About "show, don't tell":

Let's say two characters are having a conversation. X brings a topic up in order to make Y drop his guard and extract valuable information.

Would it be preferable if I wrote "X's question made Y uncomfortable" or something along those lines, or would it be better if I showed that either through the dialogue or by describing his body language (for example, Y tapping his fingers nervously, breathing heavily etc)

>>20357109
Just say "Y looked uncomfortable".

>>20356484
Why don’t you show me that you want me to show you rather than tell me that you want me to show you?
>>20354980
I’d enjoy seeing my tale of asexual, platonic love (some even call it “friendship”) turned into a bunch of faggots and trannies sucking each other off.

>>20356968
Just read contemporary books in general, it doesn't matter which ones. You should be doing that anyway.
I'm a socially stunted ESL and I manage.
For fan fiction I tend to gather all dialogue from the source material into a big text file (ideally sorted by character) and immerse myself whenever I'm uncertain. I think this sort of focused study can be helpful, but I doubt it's necessary.
The point is to develop a gut feeling for it. It's not fundamentally different from other prose.

>>20357112
That’s fine if you’re some mouth breathing nigger who prefers to tell and not show.

>>20353565
Comic-book values are very childish and basic, i.e. there are "good" guys and there are "bad" guys.
It's an oversimplification of the real world.
It's why the mainstream press gets away with their binary view on good/evil.
And that works because so many people don't grow up.
Bunch of adult-sized children out there.
In other words...stick to that, and your work will be popular.

>>20353695
Just make sure they conform to the self-destructive atrocity that passes for black culture.

A Hero Among Monsters, Chapter 13: Precision Tools Made by Goblins (2nd draft, 2nd revision)
https://pastebin.com/t3aRRZrt

>>20354793
Hopefully continuing on my last readthrough of my new novel before self-publishing it on Amazon.
>>20354980
Hollywood can do whatever they want to my work, as long as they pay me.
I would specifically NOT want to be involved with whatever they're doing.
>>20355098
They probably don't talk about it.
>>20355321
>inner monologue
narrator
>>20355644
>Kan Ban
Great for manufacturing and other piece work, not so good for anything creative.

>>20356849
>kindergarten-tier trolling

>>20357065
Isn't that vision of Hell a little bit too much like real life, though?

>>20357543
It's very similar. That's part of the cruelty of it, and also part of the bleakness of it. At least, that's kind of what I'm trying to go for in terms of the tone.

>>20357566
Well, I'm not telling you how to write your book, but I think Hell needs to be worse than real life in some significant way.
Otherwise, it seems like a letdown.

>>20357543
thatsthejoke.png

>>20355968
stuff like this makes me think that I'm a God compared to you and that while I may not be the next James Joyce I can definitely become the next Brandon Sanderson

>>20357574
It's a hyperbole of the real world. The government is nameless and faceless. There are no figureheads to blame, and even if there were the reaction of the authorities in my setting is swift and unilateral. There are no politics. It's mostly a modern serfdom where most are working 60-80 hour weeks just to scrape by in what passes for a studio apartment and spending what little remains of their paycheck. It's a world where your own immortality mocks you for the opportunity you'll likely never seize, but leaves it on the windowsill all the same. There are people who die young and beautiful and enterprising. Who are able to leverage their gifts or looks or talents to become one of the hyperrich or hyperbeautiful, but most people are fated to simply watch that and exist at the bottom of the pyramid.

>>20357087
I live in nowhere land

>>20357186
Thanks anon I'll try that. I know lots of readers have a stigma with contemporary fiction but I just need something modern to study. I'll pick up something that doesn't sound terrible and hope for the best.

You play God nervously, actions piling up sweatily upon your desk like unpaid bills, there is too much action to take certain action, as if you were spoiled for choice, by the grapes on a vine. You in your ignored and growing concern hurl a kind of lab coat over your mind as if you are going to tell ghost stories, and then pretend you are a good German and doing the necessary and necessarily difficult experiments of the last century. As if they were pounding on your door demanding to govern a person called as you in the face to face and you did open it with a smile, and an apron on, and stuck your thumb into your bosom, as if your body was a suckling baby, and you looked at the law-man and said, with the excitable, amateur, and novel authority heard in the voice of a person who has lived most of their life already and is just today gifted the circumstances appropriate for the operatic performance of a citizens arrest, “he’s this way officer, he’s in here!” pointing between your ribs as if it the crime was deeper than skin, and the refuge in which the criminal did shelter would continue to trade, after the incident was brought to a close. As if in time people forgot what went on in between the walls and could no longer project a holographic murder upon the middle of the guilty room. As if haunting could stop, and the ghost went to the grave.

>>20357599
I have a vague memory that the souls sentenced to your Hell were still able to die somehow? Is that true?
Sorry if I'm way off base here...I'm especially tired tonight.

>>20357610

So it was you, sat upon the throne of god like a GI in a European palace or a child in a foreign museum, and you were half a rat and half a geek. You thought you would see for yourself what non-intervention does, so you did, and did see business as usual, on the surface, though you saw it through the blur of some irritant speck, at an aside of your mind, (perhaps behind your right eye) and that speck did come into picture as paperwork, which did pile up to cloud your perception, and your enjoyment, (which here means just peace) like the sports are all rained badly off. The sheer amount accumulant, of the absence of action, is beginning to settle, carpeted upon the ground like the finale of a blizzard, and all the tired snow flakes that took part in that blizzard are sitting and then standing up like matchstick men and are walking towards each other and piling up upon each other and are making a model from out of themselves and that model is taking on a shape and that shape is shaped like your more feared parent, and that model is a model model, and it is lauded up and down your mind in all the towns and cities you have built up like plaque within arteries and between teeth upon the sandy loam of your mind-when-born when you were true American, and could not sit idly by on the lip of the frontier whilst it screamed out animal, like a literal bitch in heat, an oral-mythic spew-up of garbled and unhinged terrorist demands which made sense purely and only by the sheerness of the edge of the knife called chance which stuck out from the chest of the situation and did glint in the light as this thing swung its torso around like a furious bear at the human government helicopter when it came every year at the same time to point guns and cameras and fingers and flashing lights and binoculars and all of that shit that they apparently have to bring with them like Arabs on holiday. It, The Frontier, see it takes on it’s name for its name as if it can learn, like a crow using a drill, in one hundred years time. It, The Frontier, made its demands, as barely as one makes a deadline or a fast-train, and they were the sound of “fill me!” and it was exclaimed, like a dog does exclaim about current events. The subtext which hid undercover of “Fill me!” like a commando under a filled moon (as if fullness of moon was like the swelling of some erection, as if it did erect itself upon the sky in some heightened arousal, a nocturnal emission) was waiting like a trap to burst out and shout “or I will eat you, like a mantis” and the sum of the demands did grow heavier in burden like the product of a sum, demand multiplied by threat on your mind like boots on the bed until you could stand this no longer and went out to be cowboy and Indian in your heads’ America, and went straight into race war to make the case for building.

>>20357614
Yes, it's a separate physical dimension. Humans are sort of replicated and spit out there after death, and while their bodies are biologically immortal (won't age), they are still able to die there. So yes, suicide is always on the table. And some do, but most of them are slaves to their own devices.

I am fucking done with ``world building´´ and ``hard magic systems´´ in my science fiction fantasy shit.
From now on I'm writing what's on my mind instead of second guessing myself with shit like ``does this character come from inconsequential county A or B?´´, ``Does this spell respects the overly complicated magic system I came up wile drunk last Monday?´´ or ``Should I spend the next tree hours drawing the map of my fantasy earth or creating a name sheet based on some forgotten African language instead of actually writing?´´
I'm going full schizo, coming up with crap on the spot and sticking with it no matter how stupid it sounds at first, IL deal with it on the next revision, same comes with plot elements.
This post is just a manifestation of my intentions, so I don't feel like I'm screaming in to the void, feel free to ignore it.

I was wondering 'How do I make a powerup scary?" In the sense that the protagonist getting stronger isn't depicted as a momentous, triumphant occasion, but rather a scary, incredibly tense moment that puts everyone at risk.

>Post some writing in writing general
>scroll up
>everyone complaining about the difficulty of building their own personal LOTR in their garage on weekends and evenings
>look back at what I posted
>Can't even make it look dwarf/gnome-related if I squint
>tab out

>>20357626
Well, if a 2nd death is an escape, then it's not really that horrible of a place, IMHO.
I think you need to make it worse.
I was toying with some ideas...you're free to ignore my pseud interference.

How about, if you fail to slave away in the megacities, you get cast out into the wastelands, where there's nothing to eat but each other.
But since we're dealing with souls, eating a part of someone else makes that soul a part of you...an independent part, with intelligence and awareness proportional to the size of what you ate.
Before very long, you're effectively schizophrenic.
Your existence becomes like a bunch of idiots chained together, trying to act as one.
If you decide to give up and succumb, you find yourself dragged around by the others, suffering the worst of the collective horror.

A related horror would be, once a being has been reduced to a blubbering schizo mess, to get repeatedly incarnated as farm animals, born and bred for slaughter, or to lay eggs in a cage that's too small to turn around, or as a member of a species with a high infant mortality rate (e.g. ocean fish).

I dunno, just random thoughts.
You may find the "Book Of The Damned", from the Pathfinder role-playing game, inspirational:
https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Book_of_the_Damned_(sourcebook)

>>20357431
"Show, don't tell" is the biggest fucking writing meme of the 21st century, peddled by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
It's the literary equivalent of "just be yourself".

>>20357636
The story is senior to the setting.
The most elaborate, detailed, well-thought-out setting is pointless if you don't have a story to tell.
I've known many writers that get stuck in the worldbuilding phase.

>>20357694
>I've known many writers that get stuck in the worldbuilding phase.
That's because they aren't, and never were, writers. They're autistic people obsessed with languages, history, etc. who are better suited to being ttrpg GMs than authoirs.

>>20357698
I personally just like writing up characters

>>20357691
If that were true, exposition in movies would be more popular.

>>20357708
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I'm not trashign worldbuilding. Worldbuilding is extremely important for science fiction and fantasy. I'm just saying the people who "get stuck on the worldbuilding phase" were never actually writers, they were never interested in the actual storytelling process, they just wanted an autistic encyclopedia for their made-up concept.

>>20357717
And if books were movies you might have a point.

>>20357717
Good thing we're on /lit/ and not /tv/ then yea?

>>20357708
Coming up with characters is the soul of writing and the most enjoyable part

>>20357717
Exposition in movies IS popular. You're confusing useless exposition with necessary exposition. It doesn't matter how you frame it, it's still accomplishing the same thing. Exposition also has nothing to do with showing vs. telling.
"Showing" in the context of the film is literally just scene writing.

>>20357667
lmao so true! Fuck fantasy.

>>20357732
>so true!

>>20357724
>>20357726
And if the real money in book-writing wasn't in selling the TV/movie rights, you might have a point.

>>20357743
If you're looking to make a quick buck, crypto might be more your speed

>>20357728
The soul of fiction writing is commenting on the human condition.
In my view, there's no other subject.

>>20357736
You will never be a writer. You are a consumer bugman hopped up on Tolkien runoff

>>20357751
>You will never be a writer. You are a consumer bugman hopped up on Tolkien runoff

>>20357745
There's nothing "quick buck" about writing fiction.

>>20357689
I have plans for what happens beyond the necropolis/megacity, which does include nomadic tribes of proto-humans/neanderthals who arrived in Hell extremely early and went unnoticed before people started organizing themselves.

In terms of schizophrenia and such, not everyone is cut from the same cloth. There are many people who don't have the depth to endure eternity and simply off themselves. Others are more inclined for a life of slavery, to be something akin to cattle. The reason the society doesn't resort to 100% slavery is because they want to create a sort of mockery of Earth in order so that they may enjoy its same luxuries and pleasures (art, creativity, technology, culture, etc...)

>>20357755
Yes that's the point I was trying to make, thank you.

>>20357754
>

>>20357756
OK, as long as you've got a plan.
But the context is you asking whether the protag needs to be shown the alternative before agreeing to the deal.
As it stands...unless there's something extra horrible about Hell that you haven't revealed yet...that might have to happen.

Guys I might be trying too hard to hamfist a plot that might not have enough space to grow organically. Do I expand part 1 or try to make it fit even if it doesn't "punch" with the same weight? It's the setup for a longer story but I want to know if this appears to be one of those "Where the fuck did that come from? And why?" sort of deals.
Context
>new king about to take throne, no coronation yet so still prince, he is ambushed and conscripted into army. Afraid of his post, he rolls with it and hides from responsibility
>in his absence, a Duke, acting as regent, brings soldiers in to take the capital city by force (my problem here might just be I'm trying to be too secretive about it)
>new king catches wind about it. After being discovered as the king, he takes his army over to the capital city and fights for it
>during this, the king's friend is discovering the shady Duke stuff and having a meltdown about his religious convictions
>roughly 90k words

>>20357761
surprisingly poignant, good job

>>20357811
I think maybe another way of illustrating the dread or "horror" of what I'm trying to say with my interpretation of Hell can be summed up with the idea of "This is it..." Like, you're not even worthy of the time it would take to flay you alive next to a burning lake and keep your body on life support. Eternity really is just going to be a sort of Sisyphean struggle, a daily conversation with yourself about whether or not it's worth living for Friday nights or the few hours of free time you might have before it's off to haul your boulder again. There's a certain lack of actual punishment that is meant to imply that the worst part about Hell is that there's nothing strictly speaking stopping you from attempting to climb the rungs of society, but given infinite time people will procrastinate infinitely. There's also God's cruel genetic joke, where those who are beautiful and died beautiful will stay so, and others might not be as privileged.

There are some subplots I want to explore with the fact that these people can't reproduce, and are therefore subject to the whims of the human population on Earth for their population influx.

>>20357698
You cocksucking faggots insist there’s no point to writing fantasy without pulling a Tolkien and inventing languages and lore, so STFU.

>>20358032
Who are you quoting?

>>20357878
OK, I'll wait and see what happens.

>looking up best sellers on amazon
>reading their dumb premises
>reading the first page preview
>typing up a paragraph or two about how my book is similar and different
is this normal? Is this what authors do every time they try to sell a book? This is awful. I want to die.

>>20358072
You're competing with the bottom of the barrel. "Indie publishing" on amazon is an oversaturated market made to take advantage of retards, the fact that you're even trying it tells me you're ngmi.
>7,500 new books are published on kindle each day

>>20358032
seethe
>>20358036
the schizo voices in his head, i assume

>>20358082
I'm writing a book proposal, and agents and publishers want me to compare my book to similar novels that sold well.

If I compare it to the actual books I got inspiration from, some little known novellas and classics that were written 100 years ago, it's game over. Is there a better way?

>>20358097
Oh okay, I assumed you were trying to self-publish something on Kindle.
When agents ask for a proposal, they don't want you to compare it to stuff written 100 years ago, they want to see how it compares to what's currently selling.
No, there's no better way. Publishing companies are risk management companies, they trust only numbers. You have to either play their game or take another route.

>>20358082
Yay! My book is part of that 7500!!!

Can someone give me some tips on this scene. This is absolute complete utter shit. I'm thinking of making the girls be more important to the story and give them names.

We're going to have them compete in a chicken contest next chapter.

>>20358243
stop writing, nobody wants to read your fucking garbage. It's uninteresting, mundane, and historical fiction is the worst genre anyone can write. Write Fantasy.

>>20358243
My biggest complaint is that this reads like... a chicken trivia encyclopedia entry? I cannot identify what the conflict of this scene is. What is supposed to be at stake?
What changes about the characters at the end of the scene? What justifies its place in the story, how does it tie to the plot?
The prose could use some work, especially look into something called active voice vs. passive voice.
Those are the only criticisms I can come up with of with this small excerpt.
Ignore this anon: >>20358295

>>20358328
Actually I used the wrong term here, active voice is when the verb goes after the noun. What I am actually trying to say is that sentences like this:
>It would not be a few minutes before the shutters from the buildings nearby opened and the streets energized with life
Are complex puzzles that don't provide information in reading order. Prose like this is cleaner:
>A few minutes passed, then the nearby buildings' shutters opened, and the streets energized with life.
Or just omit the "few minutes" thing entirely.

>>20358328
>I cannot identify what the conflict of this scene is. What is supposed to be at stake?
thank you. This is the problem.
>What changes about the characters at the end of the scene?
Southern guy begins to learn the value of selling chickens.
>What justifies its place in the story, how does it tie to the plot?
They're going to find success in selling chickens. Then a bunch of irish dudes burn down their chicken farm, and the end of the story will be them finding resolve to start over.

>>20356103
I haven't seen that image since a crossover thread in /co/ back in 2011.

My god, it's been over a decade.

>tfw want to write next lolita
>worried that it will ruin me as a writer and that even Amazon will never let me put my work on their shelves again

Does anyone else worry about stuff like this? Or like people finding out who you are and saying, "I knew this guy in high school! He always said the weirdest things"?

>>20358431
Why would you want to rewrite someone else's book? You'll never be Nabokov.

>>20358440
Because I can do it better.

>>20358442
No you can't. The fact that you think this shows how immature you are.

>>20358442
You will surpass Nabakov.

>>20358444
>sucking any author's dick this hard
Whatever you say, anon...

>>20358431
Not really. The worst thing someone could find out about me is that I browse 4chan. Even then, I doubt anyone would seriously care.

I made a four-page story based on a horror game I've never played. I have a habit of writing stories and never finishing them. So this is supposed to be a small story I could get done.

Here's part 1 of 2:

>>20358478
And here's part 2 of 2"

>>20358431
Did you read any of Nabokov's other work?

>>20356680
>What do you like to read, anon? What genres, what plots
Fuck, I missed your reply, my bad. I guess science fiction, action/adventure, thrillers, mysteries, history, etc. or any plot that you can go back to and find deeper meaning behind after initial reading. Hell, I'm open to anything you suggest, as long as the characters are believable and the plot makes logical sense but is still smart, I'd say.

>>20358243
It needs some basic editing but I found it somehow charming.

>>20358510
I don't read much within your genres. I can still recommend books, but before I do...
I don't think your issue is being a social recluse, I think your issue is being insecure in your writing. You can give a pen to the most social of butterflies, and their first attempts at writing dialogue will be as shitty as yours. So the playing field is level.
Basically, practice dialogue. And thar doesn't mean 'write exclusively dialogue', because dialogue should be used sparingly. An exercise: Joan the maid is being accused of theft by the bosslady. Write a page of this scene with and without dialogue.
A bit of pre-critique follows.
Usually, we use dialogue to communicate personalities, and as a space where these personalities can clash. Dialogue isn't description and can rarely be setup; it's plot, it should (must) advance plot.
So we cut the nonessential. No
"Hi," she said.
"Hi," he answered.
(Unless you want to communicate an awkward moment between lovers)
Characters say, ask, and, very occasionally, shout or whisper things. They don't gasp, grunt, growl, cry, utter, or hiss. Break this rule only to express personality or circumstances, never because you think you need to break the monotony of 'said'.
Most importantly, have fun and bee yourself.

>>20358243
I was kinda-sorta trying to like it until the women started talking. Dialogue always makes me cringe. If your characters have to talk, make it much less. Nobody should talk, ever. The voices in my head should be quiet.

>>20358367
>Then a bunch of irish dudes burn down their chicken farm, and the end of the story will be them finding resolve to start over.
If I was your agent or editor, and the goal was to market your story, I would suggest starting here, or starting the story very close to this event (have it be in like chapter 2) since so far, all the stuff that happens before it lacks the kind of drive that invests readers. A good story is useless if nobody reads it long enough to see it.

>>20353079
what else?

It's fairly easy writing scenes in stories. But writing sequences of time is a lot harder. I don't want the reader to feel like I'm glossing over too much. But at the same time it doesn't feel right to keep the same pace since it'll get boring for the reader.

1/2

2/2

A quick haunted house sketch from earlier.

>my characters doing something that perfectly exemplifies the themes of the story as if I had planned for them to do it
>tfw my characters are making my story kino and I'm just taking notes

>>20358964
>>20358967
I like it, but it needs editing.
>Outside
Remove this word.
>which was totally untrue
What was?
>innuendo
Wrong meaning.
>if not
if
>impressionable to
Stray words? The sentence only makes sense if I remove them.
>and would later
Start a new sentence instead.
>at least one
Weird phrasing, just say "one" or "a single" or "a" or something.

>>20359023
That's how it's supposed to work. I wish I got there.

>>20359036

Appreciated, I'm quite happy with the potential it has so far but these sketches are the first sloppy drafts.

Would it be wise to avoid the trope where the fake haunted house is actually haunted? This has been my idea all along (to avoid the trope) and I don't think there's really a clever way to do it at this point. Or there is, but it's not important for the piece.

>>20359079
It's okay to make it haunted, and it's also okay to not make it haunted. Either can be done well and either can be done badly. I don't know if thinking in terms of tropes is helpful. Try to look past the categories and think about the experience.
If you're not going to have a twist then you should make sure the reader doesn't expect one, or it'll end up unsatisfying. Managing expectations is important. You could mention early on that the narrator searched all throughout the attic for ghosts when they were little and didn't find any. That would hopefully set up the right expectations.
But like I said, making the house haunted can be done well. The problem with a tired trope is that the reader sees it coming; the problem with the reader seeing it coming is that it makes the gravity the story gives to the twist ridiculous. The solution is to not make it a twist in the first place. All but explicitly show the reader that the house is haunted, early on, and make the narrator oblivious or in denial. Take the haunting as a base and build from there. If you don't try to be clever you can't fail to be clever.
Of course if that's not the story you want to write then you shouldn't write it.

>>20345513
How do I write non-fiction? I sound retarded

There's a quirked up white boy busting down sexual style in the sky... It's happened before, but it's never been goated with the sauce like this.

I want to write some humorous slice-of-life stories for my video game but I'm really clueless as to how I should approach my style of writing. I don't want to take my contemporaries as an example, their style of humor references the perverse aspects of modern life to shock the consumer with its stark contrast the game's 'metanarrative'. For fuck's sake it's really deplorable but it's what the vogue is everywhere, it seems. I just want to write earnest, but also genuinely funny stories in dialogue form. Any advice, and any literature that I can take as inspiration?

>>20358295
seethe

>>20359261
Maybe you just need to look at other contemporaries? There's an incredible variety out there, if you feel like they're all doing the same thing then that might be on you.
What kind of game are you making? How does the dialogue intersect with the gameplay?

>>20358616
What a weird critique.

>>20358243
Roman empire?

Use Prussia instead of HRE. Nobody knows you're referring to HRE

>>20358072
I hope this was you because it was a really fucking funny post that I couldn't help saving.

>>20359276
I'm making a life Sim, sort of like Stardew Valley but minus the pozzed stuff
I'm starting to think it's not worth it to look at my contemporaries. What with the sheer volume it's like looking for needles in a haystack, which isn't just worth it. And Japanese slice-of-life writing just doesn't appeal to me, it's kind of too uwu rainbow sparkles for my taste.
I was hoping at least in the world of literature there are still people who write funny stuff without being outdated for the modern taste. Or maybe it's just pointless to pursue that perfect writing style as my generation (gen Z) are just a fucked up bunch of retards in general. Sad.

>>20358444
You will actually unironically never be successful with this mindset. There's a quote from Faulkner that is something along the lines of an artist refuses to listen to anyone because he knows he can do his vision of art better than anyone else. So I believe in anon.

>>20359340
>if I just refuse to acknowledge my shortcomings and keep living a lie, I will succeed!
No.

>>20359345
You are so god damn retarded.

>>20359354
>I am Nabokov. I am Faulkner. I have never done anything worth noting but if I just keep acting like I am the equal, nay, superior of these famed writers, I will be rewarded for it. I don't need to work at overcoming my flaws, for I have no flaws. It is by will alone that I set my mind in motion.

>>20359336
Reading is essential for good writing. It's not optional. Maybe it doesn't have to be contemporary, but you'd impoverish yourself by excluding it.
People are still writing all sorts of things in all sorts of styles. I don't know what you like, but I'm sure it's out there.
If you can, look for communities of people with similar tastes. I've found good recommendations that way.

If I'm writing from a perspective of a guy who has a brother he's traveling with do I need to write
>Bob saw him and his brother
or can I simply write
>Bob saw the brothers
I feel like the latter kind of takes you out from the perspective of the first brother which I'm using

>>20359391
yes, i'm writing a novel about a boy who's forced to live under the stairs by his evil uncle and aunt until he is rescued by a giant from a mystical school of ninjas

>>20359723
either is fine
using less words is often the better choice
also, read it aloud and see which sentence rolls off your tongue the best

>>20359723
if only there was a pronoun for two or more people...

>>20359730
Is he the chosen one ninja to defeat the evil daimyo?

I need some advice regarding subtlety; My main character is supposed to be someone who uses alcohol as a crutch, who is constantly tipsy because that's what enables him to be social and somewhat brave, otherwise he's indecisive and socially inept / awkward. How do I make this clearly know without having it be overly repetitive i.e. me constantly re-stating that he's sipping from his flask or that he feels warm etc?

>>20359787
Introduce him as somewhat off-kilter but socially forward, and have a later scene showing him sober and bumblefucking through social situations. Make a quick comment about how he ran out of drink in the narration of the latter scene, or instill a sense of urgency to try and get out and get one. You don't need to be too subtle if it's such a big deal for the character, just establish this strongly early on and reinforce it now and then.

>>20359730
that sounds like harry potter

>>20345513
he fuckin that shit up!! EAT EAT EAT

>>20359816
harry potter is wizards and that anon is writing about ninjas

In the confined space between the towering hedges, the deep aromas of heather, lavender, and all other sweet smells of nature were multiplied so as to be overpowering.
Once again in this wealth of flowers, here even moreso for lack of grazing cattle, the buzzing bee zapped about in great numbers, collecting the sweetest nectar for their summer hive.

>>20358647
Would you suggest a flashback style story?
>Pause, I guess you're wondering how I got into this situation

>>20359903
In this confined space between Sneed and Feed, the deep aromas of tomato, tobacco, and gummy bears, and all the other Sneed smells of nature were multiplied so as to be overpowering. Once again in this wealth of Fucking and Sucking, here even moreso for lack of gucci loafers, the fancy german car zapped about in great numbers, collecting the Sneedest nectar for park avenue manicures

>>20359923
This is the greatest reply I have ever gotten on 4chan. Thank you.

Where can I look up foreign proverbs translated into English, like China's "Failure is the mother of success"?

I only use 1 semicolon per 1k words, just thought you all should know that.

I only use one comma per 5k words and I thought you should all know that.

>>20358431
imagine being so self-deluded you're worried about accidentally writing a classic masterpiece of literature that might make normies who wouldn't read it anyway give you the side eye

>>20358431
If your version of Lolita gives people the impression that you`re a pedo then you`ve written it very badly indeed and deserve what`s coming for you.

>>20358442
Post a paragraph. This board is in desperate need of good writers.

>>20360271
. nobody is a good writer

I think about this conversation a lot

Kasdan: I think you should kill Luke and have Leia take over.

Lucas: You don’t want to kill Luke.

Kasdan: Okay, then kill Yoda.

Lucas: I don’t want to kill Yoda. You don’t have to kill people. You’re a product of the 1980s. You don’t go around killing people. It’s not nice.

Kasdan: No, I’m not. I’m trying to give the story some kind of an edge to it.

Lucas: I know you’re trying to make it more realistic, which is what I tried to do when I killed Ben—but I managed to take the edge off of it—and it’s what I tried to do when I froze Han. But this is the end of the trilogy and we’ve already established that there are real dangers. I don’t think we have to kill anyone to prove it.

Kasdan: No one has been hurt.

Lucas: Ben and Han, they’ve both—Luke got his hand cut off.

Kasdan: Ben and Han are fine. Luke got a new hand two cuts later.

Lucas: By killing somebody, I think you alienate the audience.

Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.

Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.

Kasdan: Well, that’s all right.

Lucas: I have always hated that in movies, when you go along and one of the main characters gets killed. This is a fairytale. You want everybody to live happily ever after and nothing bad happens to anybody.

Kasdan: I hate it when characters get killed, too.

Lucas: Oh, you do.

Kasdan: I do.

Lucas: I resent it and I resented it when I was a little kid. I would watch and there would be these five guys and one of them would be the funny clown and halfway through, one of them gets killed. Why did they kill the lead? He was the best character.

Marquand: I felt that about Ben the first time I saw Star Wars.

Kasdan: But that one worked like crazy.

Lucas: Yes, I know. But we’ve done that. The same thing with Han. The biggest reaction we got was when people asked, “How can you leave the movie half finished?” Well, the main thrust of this one is that it has to be fun.

Kasdan: All of our material here is not fun.

Lucas: Well, I know we’ve got the serious side.

Kasdan: We have a lot of grim stuff here.

Lucas: Well, that’s why we have to concentrate on the fun.

>someone actually read 30 pages of my book
What if they think it's shit?!

>>20360342
>Kasdan: I’m saying that the movie has more emotional weight if someone you love is lost along the way; the journey has more impact.
>Lucas: I don’t like that and I don’t believe that.

Lucas literally killed Obi-Wan in the first movie and it was harped on the rest of the film.

>>20360371
um that was that movie sweaty this one is the happy ewok one

>>20354793
I'm revisiting some of my old stuff. May even share it for fun.

>>20359723
It's a good, subtle question. I'd say the first. It reinforces the POV, how the natural thing is to think 'Oh shit, he's talking to me' before thinking 'he's talking to us'.
Or maybe not the POV, it reinforces the position, hierarchy, relationship between the brothers as seen through the eyes of one of them. Are they an us or a me and him, etc.
Good shit. More of this and less 'what will you do when Netflix picks up the adaptation for the book you haven't written yet?'

>>20360371
They literally brought that up a few sentences before what you posted.

>>20348810
Venice
Vatican City
Vladivostok
Istanbul
Ulaanbaatar

>>20360342
It's a fair position. I don't like Star Wars, but I can respect the reluctance to make things grim just because.
However, it can work. When Ned Stark, ostensibly the main character of Game of Thrones, got decapitated at the end of the book, that's when I got really invested in the story. In part because I was young and didn't understand it - why would they kill the main guy? What will they do now? I was blown away by the grimdark nihilism of it, I was intrigued by the narrative trick, and wanted to know if George could pull it off.
The easy answer is, you do what the story demands. Ned Stark dying made ASoIaF better and reinforced its themes: being good won't help you here, and honor is a vague concept at best. Killing Luke seems a strange decision, because SW is a farmboy-to-hero kind of story. It could have made him a martyr, sacrificing himself to destroy Palpatine -- but leaving the tragic ending to the tragic Vader fits better.

>>20357539
it worked

>>20359912
This doesn't work, since it's like false advertising, people will read the cool hook then have to drudge through all the backstory to get back to that point. For marketable fiction, you have to hit the ground running and then keep running.

>>20360496
>>20359912
It's called a framing device and it's been around since the Odissey. The Name of the Wind uses it. Re: Monarch uses it, and it has patreon pigs up the wazoo. The Leopard something, from that Marlon dude uses it. And these are just three schlocky fantasies, you need look no further than Heart of Darkness for a classic.
It works, yeah.

>>20360496
>>20360578
For a historical fiction that's not a good idea. It makes it too fantastical. Historical fiction relies on world building and tension that grows over time.

Why do I love my own writing most of all? Should I feel ashamed about this? Am I not meant to hate what I've done?

>>20360705
What makes a historical fiction? If I have a realistic setting (ie not fantasy) in a historical time period, like the Renaissance, but it isn't tied to the real world in any tangible sense (doesn't reference world history or other landmarks), is that historical fiction?

>>20360705
I haven't read much (any) historical fiction, so it's entirely possible that something about the genre makes framing devices not worth it. Can't see why, though.
Chicken anon, something like "As we stood there in the rain, watching the remains of our farm issue their final wisps of smoke from from broken timber jagged like a corpse's ribs, Fei Ming thought of something pithy to say." sets the plot, stakes, and main character(s) nicely, and you can certainly build on it. Going "let me tell you how we got to this point" seems a little trite, but if it would make sense if they were relating the tale to a fourth member of the crew, a money lender, or something.

Because I know how to read birth charts I can just pick a random date and the character is all layed out for me right there.

A useless skill with such a major blessing in deed

>>20360768
A few options:
1. You're a good writer compared to others you've read.
2. You have no sense of taste.
3. You just finished writing a beginning or scene you really like and you're riding that high. This option subdivides:
3.1. You're already a good and experienced writer.
3.2. You're too new to tell quality from a collage of media you like or consumed recently.

>>20351818
>>You shouldn't describe anything ever anyway because show, don't tell.
???

>>20360849
>You just finished writing a beginning or scene you really like and you're riding that high
Other way around, this is writing I did a long time ago.

>>20360847
I can use google too

>>20360819
It's grounded. It's a slice of life that takes place in another time period. Since readers generally have an idea how things end (we have history) it makes little sense to show the reader the end in the beginning. If we take WW2 and in the 2nd chapter they kill Hitler, why would anyone care how they got there. The story's end is already there. Or Of Mice and Men, we don't want to know Curley is dead in the beginning.

That said it also depends on the story itself. What message is the chicken story trying to convey?

>>20360893
To add, Historical Fictions strength is to convey a message about human life.

>>20360893
>>20360904
I'm a different anon. I'm working on a story about two kings cycling from bitter enemies to friends to rivals and back again over the course of their regimes. I'm intending it to be an exploration of the full depth of a man's life: marriage, war, peace, feuds with family members by blood or water, children, diplomacy, love, tact, etc.

>>20360578
The difference is that those stories you listed actually have cool shit happening in the past when they flash back as well, with a conflict that keeps the readers going until they get back to the present time. It's a cliche that always fails miserably when the author just does it because they have the exciting part on chapter 10 and they want to feed the reader a bunch of boring garbage first.

>>20355968
This is genuinely enjoyable to read. I want to read more. That's much more than can be said about most of the prose here.

Emilyanon here. Four people downloaded and read 40 pages in total of my book. This is a good sign right?

>>20347426
Interesting idea, am quite intruiged. I have written this in hope that I can help

I would just say "all the disgraced men", not "like me" afterwards. Not adding it implies there is no necessity for the distinction which adds character, and you already mentioned things that would make the person feel disgraced. Nor would I say "we all sat there", just "we all sat."; you already mentioned the location
I wouldn't use words like "baffling" to describe things other than a character being baffled, not locations as it's better to explain what makes it baffling, as you do after it, rather than just calling it that
You keep repeating "the cruel litlte woman". If this is like a name the character has thought for her, it's fine. Otherwise, try to use different words to describe her
Hope this can mean something for you :)

>>20360881
Reading a birthchart isn't as easy as you think it is.

In your writing, assuming it's third person for the sake of this question, does the narrator's 'voice' change depending on which character is the PoV at the time? I.e., different way of describing things or changed pacing / focusing on different stuff? I'm playing around with it now that I've gotten to editing the fat bulk of raw text I've got, and I gotta say it's a blast. Only thing that worries me is that people might be confused by the change in prose and words used, specifically because I have two characters that are pretty much polar opposites of eachother, one is a country bumpkin, the other an uptight noble. So, of course, the former would use colloquialisms, informal speech etc., while the latter talks in a more prim and proper manner. Thoughts?

>>20361238
It can. Third-person limited often uses this to greater or lesser effect. It's never quite as pronounced as first-person, I find, because that's more a direct "by the character's words" viewpoint compared to basically being just a passenger in their head like third-person limited. Generally speaking, you shouldn't drift TOO much in style so much as in content, so how characters think and describe things should differ for example. Some characters might be stunned by opulence at a luxurious palace, some might not even give it a second glance.

>>20360955
So your suggestion to anon is to not write a boring shit of a story? Great advice, hope more anons see this.

>>20358964
What's the idea posting sketches and rough drafts here? Do you think people are supposed to waste their time looking at your low effort scribbling? Commenting on things you would already have fixed by your final draft?

>>20361429
>whats the idea of getting feedback from your writing
I don't know anon take a guess

>>20361238
Sounds like you're talking about free indirect speech. It's fun as hell and my favorite perspective to write in.

>>20361372
No, my suggestion is for anon to get to the good part (protagonist's farm getting burned down) as quickly as possible. This is basic stuff.

I'm getting the suspicion that I won't ever earn any money from this shit

>>20361486
Don't give up anon! Don't give up!

>>20361448
But that's not the good part of the book... The good part of the book is the race relations and human interactions.

>>20361448
Not him but you need to be careful with this broad prescriptive feedback. Not every story needs to start with action and Chinaman anon's story is historical fiction about a guy starting a new life abroad - showing the climax/turning point of the plot before he even lands on the dock is a really specific move that could really hurt the story.

>>20361442
>free indirect speech
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Didn't know its a legit narrative style, I gotta look into reading something entirely written like this. From what few short snippets I could find at the moment, it's pretty much 1-1 with the style I'm trying to convey, but mine still feels a bit clunky. Cheers either way!

>>20360955
I think that a bombastic start with a lot of oompfh can carry a story really far, provided, as you say, that they can maintain at least a bit of that oompfh throughout. But there's a caveat. I think that having a pre-flashback scene that overtly spoils the climax moment without leaving anything to speculation is a bad move. It makes all the conflict pointless because you know how it's all gonna end. A bit of mystery can go a long way imo.

>>20360098
>>20360126
I only use 1 verb per 25k words, just thought you should all know that.

>>20361160
Then why can gypsies and hippies do it?

>>20361429
That happens a lot, yes.
Every once in a great while, someone posts something cool.

>>20361542
Really? That's the good part?
I read the first 18 pages and didn't go any further because nothing interesting had happened yet.
If you insist on sticking with this topic, you may want to write it in a more engaging way.
Not trying to be mean here...just nonplussed that you're going to continue in the same vein.

>put both my protagonists through the Mary sue test
>both were 55+

>>20347394
First of all i hope this woman is small because your constant mentioning of "little woman" makes me picture- A small woman.

But that's not my main issue, tell me anon do your prisoners just sit there in the dark waiting for death inside a, i presume, dark cave?
Does no one panic, no one lashes out, is the cave really just silent? No men are crying, enraged, shitting on the walls or doing unspeakable things to each other? Are humans just little bunnies that just shut up and eat it when you throw them on a dark cave against their will?
Be real dude, we are talking about inmates here, each with an unique violent, non violent and sometimes even non guilty background.
It is fine if you just want to write a cave where everyone is already mindbroken, but if you are going to do that, at least give me a reason to believe the cave will be that way.
I mean just look at your main character, dude just got thrown in the cave along with everyone else, i can easily assume people just get thrown in the cave after the judge slams down his tiny hammer just like that without any mind-breaking ever happening.

Also remember, show, don't tell.
"we waited for someone else to be sentenced blablabla"
Yeah sure i can read that shit up, you successfully transferred the information to me, but that doesn't means it had any sort of impact on me.
Why don't you instead describe something like the unbearable darkness and idk how people in the cave react to a new inmate being thrown in, that gives it a better touch.
Or, you know, you could just do it that way, that's on you really whatever.

And please don't describe the darkness as "that black absolute darkness" that just makes me want to shoot my left testicle off with a pump-action dick.
Shoot up the thesaurus, use some different words, the darkness is black? Oh you don't say, i thought it was fucking pink like my asscheeks.
Why don't you try "Terrible" that's a nice word to describe shit like absolute darkness. "(...)In a roar, all the bodies would rush through the terrible darkness, desperate to scrap whatever muck was left to provide them sustenance."
That's just a fucking example and i'm dramatic as fuck as you can see, but really dude, work on that, i know you can do well.

"I have no earthly idea" Again, show, don't tell.
Also why did you jump from telling me you didn't know how long you been in the cave to telling me the cave's layout is weird as fuck?
I know you might be writing like that because it is the character's train of though but it makes no fucking sense to the reader to use a "-" instead of anything else.
Even a "(...)i was in that cave, >that< baffling and(...)"

Also i don't think "human artifacts" is a good word at all to use describing the obvious doodads or thingamajigs or icons or fetishes or whatever the fuck is it that was-
God dang word limit, give me a second.

>>20361751
thank you. I'll add in more action.

>>20361880
Make it organic to the plot, instead of just blending in meaningless action.
You may need to rethink it.
Your writing was actually decent, but your story wasn't that engaging.

>>20347399
(...)or whatever the fuck is it that was at the "cone" in the end of the tunnel, i mean what do you picture when i say artifact and what do you picture when you read the other things i listed hm?
Also how the fuck can the main character discern all these fine details in the middle of the darkness? Dude is some fucking prodige of touch here, i bet he cums just by lightly grazing a boob cause damn boy
He can tell it's blood just by touching it, in the fucking darkness, dried blood!
God damn son, that's some skill.

The whole thing about the tunnels is also unnecessarily confusing and not interesting at all, also is this important at all to the story or are you just trying to hint that the prisoners have been here for a long time and the cave is >le more mysterious than it looks hihihi<?

Your fixation on cones reminds me of junji ito too, because dude usually fixates on a specific thing which spirals into horror in his story.
I hope your cones are important to the story or I'll have to scold you, anon.

Also what the fuck is a "tiny" voice?
A fucking midget is talking to me now? oh fuck not again.
and also why the fuck did the main character got so startled if he knows there are people everywhere in that stupid cave?
Also well i wont even comment on the lack of despair or personality of the main character and the person behind the wall.

anyways i ain't going to keep going from this point on.

This is a very interesting story anon, and the circumstances surrounding the main character and the potential is all there, really like this thing you wrote.
I really hope to read a full short story once you're done writing it, because i can see a lot of potential in this, it's really interesting and i hope to see more.
Good job, anon, keep on the good work.

Tips for writing unreliable narrators/insane people justifying themselves in first person? An example would be the MC in Fowles' The Collector. I want to nail the feeling of isolation and hopelessness, but also some sort of depraved liberation. I've never wrote anything in my life but had a neat idea for a short story or simple videogame and want to give it a shot.

>>20361897
Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun is the best introduction to an unreliable narrator story. Start there.

>>20358243
Your first paragraph is making me want to rip my ballshack off and eat it.
God, anon.
Let me just finish this shit before killing myself.

>>20361897
read some of those letter serial killers send to cops / newspapers / victim families

>>20345513
Would any of you be interested in contributing to an anonymous book of nonfiction essays ala /ffg/?

>>20361902
Thanks anon, seems interesting. I'll check it out.

>>20361907
Kinda creepy but actually a great idea

>>20358243
>>20361903
WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY ASKING FOR EGGS IF THEY WANT CHICKEN- ok, calm down, calm down, you're better than this.

Alright
Chickens, mother hen chickens.
Anon, why am i reading about the price of eggs, dear?
Is the price of the eggs important at all to the story? Was that whole interaction about two ladies asking for egg prices just to tell the poor vendor they were actually looking for chicken important at all? Is that a natural human interaction?
Or is it that this is normal behavior in your backward world?
where people just haggle with someone and go "lol no, actually, i didn't want to buy this"

Dear, honey, sweetie, please.
I won't even talk about every other issue i have, just, just think about this for a while, alright?
Why don't you go on and watch some videos, like some interrogation videos, some true crime and some things were normal people interact with each other, and then think about what you did wrong with your eggs, alright?

>>20361918
Yeah whatever i don't got anything better to do, what're ye writing?

>>20361918
Nonfiction isn't my strong suit. I've read a lot of Wikipedia articles.

>>20357667
What did you post, fuckwit? Point it to daddy if you're not a coward and I'll run it through the meatgrinder.

>>20361937
seethe

>>20352842
>I like to write
>Proceeds to not mention reading once if not for Kurt Vonnegut's 8 rules for writing.
Yeah, good job nutelhaz, i bet you're going to shit out some true masterpieces if all you do is write and write like a maniac.
Tell me you weren't planning on stitching up some Frankenstein piece with shit from your cute little "graveyard" were you?

>>20361922
I told you the scene was shit.

>>20361961
Anon, it's not about the scene, it's about basic human interaction.
You can do better, anon, you wrote something and you're on lit instead of polishing your rod in /b/ or something.
I believe in you lil chum, that's why I'm telling ya to just look up how people naturally act and think for a bit about that before writing interactions, because that interaction was just plain insane, and also completely irrelevant to the reader.

>>20361957

>>20361429

The point is stylistic exercises and confirming if your initial hunch or intuition was truthful.

>>20361965
I took the easy path and chopped it down and went straight to the point.

>>20361930
A collection of essays with various prompts given by users. Maybe a starting pack of ten prompts.
>>20361936
Everything inside would be something of an opinion piece, a journal article, or a piece of news. Prompts could be interchangeably called assignments. E.g. "Go somewhere in your neighborhood and talk to somebody," or "Write a review of the last novel you read."

>>20361918
>>20362024
I'd be interested in giving it a shot

Peru anon if you're in here after the janny banny, I want to post a response to your arson story
I'm the anon that posted the 55,000 word novella picrel
If that anon isn't here, sorry for the noise.
My reply before the jannies deleted your thread is:
>>377373782
I thought you were a leaf at first sorry for the cold reception.
I give the story an 8/10 and the execution a 6/10. Very good for a beaner. I couldn't write in Spanish anywhere near that well.
There are some minor grammatical errors, but the main problem is that a lot of your sentences are awkward in English. Read them out loud, see if they flow. Read as many English books as you can, too. But more than anything, just find an editor that knows the language very well and do a lot of back and forth. No one writes without an editor.

>>20361880
Action is not the answer. Conflict and tension is, which sometimes comes in the form of action, but not always. Look for articles about conflict and tension in storytellng, there is a lot written about it.

>>20357856
It sounds pretty clear, anon, good job. What's the issue, exactly?
Re how secret you're being, what are the POVs? I assume the prince is one (moving from irresponsible ass to leader of men), then the friend (trying his best to hold the kingdom steady even though he has no authority, checking the Duke's power), but is the Duke one?
If yea: the power grab cannot be secret, and the reader is explicitly told it's coming.
If nay: through the eyes of the friend, we are treated to rumors, inferences, plotting, and knife-sharpening, building his and our sense of paranoia. Hey, for a nice twist you can even have the friend imprison the Duke to protect the throne and install himself in power.

>>20357109
Whose eyes are we seeing the scene through? If X, then 'Y looked uncomfortable can work. If Y, it can't, unless you tend to think to yourself 'I look uncomfortable right now'.
But let's have something more complex. Alex the plucky teenage investigator is interviewing Mrs. Lone. Sammy, Alex's sidekick, is in attendance, and we see the scene through his eyes. Typical Sherlock Holmes setting.

-------
"Thank you for your time, Mrs. Lone," Alex said, getting up. "That was all."
Mrs. Lone made no effort at courtesy. She simply stood, towering over them, reflected on dozens on glass eyed dolls, and pointed to the door. Sammy was glad to leave. God, but the woman gave him the creeps!
He nearly bumped into Alex in his haste, who was still, staring at an apparently very interesting bit of crocketry. And oh, oh no. She had the smile. With more than a little nervous sweat, Sammy saw her turn to Mrs. Lone.
"A thought suddenly occurs."
Mrs. Lone lifted her icy eyebrow and reffirmed her huge hand on the back of her chair.
"Where were you on the 22nd? Do you recall?"
Under Sammy's surprised eyes, Lone's grip changed from firm to white-knuckled.
"I was at the potluck. Everyone saw me there."
Her words were clipped, precise. Alex smile grew as they came.
"Yes. You certainly were. No one could moss tall and proud Mrs. Lone. What do they say? She's so proud and so tall that the one you're really in danger of missing is... her daughter." Alex's eyes coruscated, her entire stance changed. She was shorter by more than a head, but there was no fear when she looked into Mrs. Lone's eyes. "Where was Milicent, Mrs. Lone? Not at the potluck, was she? Where was your daughter on the 22nd?"
Sammy felt so full of second hand accomplishment, so wrapped up in the solving, that he nearly forgot to be afraid. That wall washed away when he looked back at Mrs. Lone and he saw the anger there, the glacial fury, the cake knife in easy reach of her trembling hand.
‐--------

So: Mrs. Lone is Y. She is uncomfortable, but outside our experience. We see her become uncomfortable (and angry) and see the signs that accompany that transformation.
Alex is X: she knows Mrs. Lone is uncomfortable. In her eyes, probably, she doesn't even notice the signs, she's such an experienced investigator that they all instantly add up to 'Mrs. Lone is uncomfortable. I need to press this line of questioning."
Sammy, quick-eyed normie that he is, notices the signs, but goes no further until their meaning is plain. He knows they mean something, but even when Alex is exulting in victory he gets turned around and becomes afraid instead.
The point is that what you describe and don't describe are excellent indicators of personality (not to mention tension-building: do you think Lone is going to reach for the knife, or does Alex have the situation under control?). The answer to your question boils down to 'it depends', and it really does depend. Do what the story needs you to do.

>>20362694
New thread

>>20357574
If it's like real life jacked to eleven then disappointment is part of that hellish punishment.

>>20352881
>>20352932
Both seem to be fine advice! No need to fight.

>>20362615
The POVs are the prince and his friend, yeah. The issue I'm having is I don't feel that I've given enough actual build up for the coup to feel like it's been slowly coming. It doesn't feel sinister enough. We start to get hints of it as soon as the prince disappears and the friend starts hearing from the Duke about new security in the castle, special jobs he needs discretion for, etc. It's during his crisis of faith that he comes to a realization that the Duke is betraying his trust as well, leading into an arc where he starts to question not only his faith but authority in general. By then I'm pretty sure the reader should know what's going on.
I didn't have a twist like that planned, but it might not be a bad idea. Right now the friend gets imprisoned by the Duke and he is broken out by the guards and flees to find the king.

>Pick up notebook during lunch breaks this week and write by hand as stream of consciousness
>10k words of aphoristic musings to edit on the basis of "exchange" as a theme
Man I didnt realize I had so much to say about a single topic and how it related to every one of my themes. Sometimes you really do have to let go and allow yourself to write something retarded before you can find the idea you like. I think I synthesized just about every element together that I coukd and some just worked great.

>>20363377

>>20363389
Lmao.
>when a man gives a little it's reckoned of grace because a man has little to give but when a man gives a lot it's reckoned of debt because now he has a companion because they made an exchange. Faces oversee exchange and when a man has made an exchange for companionship it is about the face on the coin no longer. That companion is a coin because his benefactor's face is upon him always and he must remember.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DRlv01MC7xhMr06IDZ-Y1BBDQkuc7cdsb34GJe5JFwU/edit?usp=sharing

Hell-Anon here, just dumping some thoughts and planned work. I've decided to break down my self-critique stuff by chapter.
>1
I can't tell if I'm hitting the right tone here. I'm trying to walk a fine line between shitting your pants because you've realized you're in Hell, and also that cool sweat and anticipation of having your fucked up little life on full display. I don't want physical fear to be the dominating force here. I guess I'm trying to capture the confusion I feel like someone's body would be sent into when faced with trying to respond to all of these thoughts at once.
>2
I just overhauled this chapter and I think it feels much more personal now, but I might be covering too much ground too quickly.
>3
If this were meant for the screen I feel like this chapter would be much more effective. I'm trying to establish the bureaucratic nature of the setting and also have there be a bit of shock.
>4
I'm unsure if I'm selling this chapter correctly. I don't know if it's believable that the MC wouldn't just bolt for the closest mirror and is instead just sort of sidetracked and pushes those thoughts to the backburner for as long as they do.
>5
Admittedly this is filler and exposition but I don't know what else to do with it and I wanted to build up the world and plot expectations a little through dialogue.
>6
I had a lot of fun writing this section and the characters were fun to write. My main fear is that I'm not properly communicating the nature of the jobs/roles. The idea that the agent representing "Avarice" isn't necessarily greedy himself is hard to portray. They aren't meant to be demigods or avatars of their respective field/sins, they're just uniquely gifted at looking into the hearts and minds of people who do embody those sins.
>7
Again, wanted to show what one of these characters was like in action and how they worked. The premise of my setting is that humans can't actually sell their souls, but that the act of convincing them that they are for a rendered service degrades the value of their soul by an amount sufficient to ultimately result in the same postmortem destination. They're like Faustian con artists.
>8
This felt like a needed addition and I think it turned out alright, honestly hit me in the feels a little.

(Just going to leave things there for now, I have some big ideas for the setting and the plot. I actually fucking hate magic systems and magic in general beyond just being a fun tool to play with. I don't want to write absurdly powerful characters who exist on a cosmic powerscale. The Fallen Angels in my setting who I plan on introducing later I intend to have be something more like a very large human. I really don't want to overdo that element of the story because I feel like stakes begin to feel meaningless.

>>20358082
>7,500 new books are published on kindle each day

>>20363377
That's how writing is! You just have to get out of the way of your muse and write anything.
At the very least, it's purgative, making room for new ideas.
At best, it's a seed from which you can grow some prose.

>>20361960
>>20361961
seethe

>>20361764
>the Mary sue test
Which?

>>20365830
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue
Presumably, there's a way to rank a character based on how much they're a Mary Sue.

>>20366669
I can think of no way this would be possible. There are times when typical "mary sue" indicators are fine, like for example if the main conflict of the story is focused on something psychological or whatever, it doesn't necessarily matter how much everybody loves the main character.

>>20366705
Well, unless original anon writes back, it's my best guess.

>>20345513
Anyone have experience on Royal road? Seems like the best place to post my fantasy novel as I write it, but curious what the community is like