/lit/ - Literature

Jimbo Qusneede

>YWNBAW
>Nobody here writes.
>Nobody here reads.
>Genre fiction is by and for retarded children.
>Never EVER tell instead of show.
>Build character without slowing plot.
>Plot is of for idiots.

To think. We deserve eternal torment and God became a lowly worm like us to deliver us from ourselves if we only repent.

I`m writing a fantasy series based in Irish culture and mythology, and I was hoping you great chaps could help me to understand which of these names (many made up and some real Irish names) foreigners can`t pronounce/understand, and what makes them hard to understand:
-Dileach
-Mathgamain
-Sásteach
-Duasal
-Togál
-Chratín
-Eimear
-Deichtine
-Fergus
-Éagan
-Daora
-Dianair
-Éanna
-Iacair
-Oile
-Pórant
-Gabh

>>20345118
That never happened. Man are you in for a surprise after death

Please teach me the ways of writing query letters!

Darkness was falling across Zeresh, creeping through the alleyways and down the canals. Arki was strolling around one of the city's harbors, as he used to do when the sun got low. More than twelve years ago the docks were brimming with life from dawn to dusk where one could hear sailors from all over the known world speaking in colorful languages. Now, all he could hear was the brutish orders given by captains from Elyria, being hidden by the thick fog that had engulfed their ships.

As he walked past two women merrily teasing a young bravo, he took a turn to the left and found himself in a tight alleyway decorated by tapestries and lanterns hanging from the balconies above. One turn to the right and two to the left had him faced with a dead end three metres above a canal. Arki tried to look across, but the fog prevented him from doing so. After looking around, he noticed a small gap to the right of the alleyway's end. As he took a closer look, he finally found what he was looking for: a staircase leading to the canal.

The stairs had fallen victims of time, and thus only one of Arki's boots could fit on one stair at a time. And so he continued his descent, carefully manuevering his fingers inside cracks in the wall, where the joints of a ladder used to be. Even though he couldn't see the surface of the canal, the fog protected him from potential prying eyes.

After another step, Arki quickly lost his footing and felt his left boot getting soaked.

paragraphs and chapters
i understand how you use paragraphs in an essay to contain one or more sentences about a subject
like if you were writing about apples and oranges, you might use a paragraph for each
but i don't get how they use paragraphs in fiction
sometimes paragraphs in fiction work like you'd think, they group a subject, but other times it seems like unrelated sentences are grouped into paragraphs
can someone explain how to use paragraphs in fiction?
and chapters. are there any rules for chapters I should be away of?

>>20345351
You don't necessarily need chapters at all. Some writers use chapters to shift between viewpoint characters, others use them to pace the reading experience itself so that you can get a satisfactory chunk of story and then quit, others use them like episodes in a serial with a cliffhanger at the end.
Paragraphs are used to break up the text for ease of reading. They can be used for visual style, they can be used to shift between tracks of thought or to describe the passage of time within the narrative.
Sometimes an unusually short paragraph or a an unusually long paragraph can be used for effect.

>>20345144
Let's see
>Dileach
Dee Lee ach
>-Mathgamain
Math guh main
>-Sásteach
Sas teech
>-Duasal
Dua saul
>-Togál
Toe gal
>-Chratín
Chuh rah tin
>-Eimear
Ee mear
>-Deichtine
Dek tine
>-Fergus
Fergus (FGO)
>-Éagan
Ayy gen
>-Daora
Daora (monster hunter)
>-Dianair
Diane aire
>-Éanna
Ee ah nah
>-Iacair
Eye a sare. This one is the worst
>-Oile
Ollie
>-Pórant
Pour ant
>-Gabh
Gab

Telling everyone some tips as a master writer

- words are cheap, delete delete delete, or better yet make a document called “graveyard” where you cut and paste everything you’ve written you either don’t like or don’t believe fits in the story
-if you’re a good writer you’ll have good taste, if you have good taste then you’ll immediately hate everything you’ve written the many first times you do, delete delete cut and paste in graveyard and keep rewriting until it becomes acceptable to YOU
- if you don’t like your writing that means you know you could have done better. Take yourself up on that bet.
- words ARE CHEAP
- have pride in the amount of pages you’ve trashed
- look up Kurt Vonnegut’s 8 rules for writing
- editing is rewriting the whole thing from scratch.
-Trying to fix a rough draft by focusing on correcting grammar issues is like polishing a turd.
- WORDS ARE CHEAP FUCKING DELETE THAT SHIT AND START AGAIN

>>20345518
This is a terrible meme and it was already unfunny the last time you posted it. You're stupid.

OP is too retarded to link to the previous thread? If you don't know how to make a general why bother doing it? Or for that matter, why not learn how to do it correctly?
I suppose it's consistent, because none of you idiots know how to write and clearly are too stupid to learn.

>>20345534
Post your writing, O sage.

>>20345362
>The whole "avoid telling not showing" thing seems to be in vogue currently
That's because people who give the avoid telling advice are maximum tier brainlet faggots who think "only organic storytelling" and "muh subtlety" are the only ways to tell a story.

>>20345599
> tell a story.
And that is why you fail.

1 of ?
Near the city of Binak, tenebrose clouds were beginning to gobble up the azure sky. Ion rode briskly down the wagon wide cobbles on his porcelain white Horned Mazin. He figured at the pace he was riding he would make it to Binak before the rain came. He adjusted the liripipe of his chaperon across his brow to hide the milk white circle that stood out like a lamp on his sable skin. It was important for him to maintain his appearances as an emissary for the Calais mercenary guild “Sturmblast.” He already stood out with his dark skin as someone heralding from the deserts in the Kingdom of Erona but now with the rise of demons from the east any unnatural markings could set people off. Ion smiled at the absurd position he found himself in. Most guilds would have never considered sending him as an emissary due to his heritage but for Sturmblast it was a display of power. Anyone touching Ion without his express permission would be an affront to the most powerful force outside the King’s Own. The King’s Own being another reason why certain appearances must be maintained. King Jacom was trying to appease the general population after the multiple wars with Erona during his Father’s reign. During that time the noble and wealthy elites oppressed the citizenry and now King Jacom was left to clean up the mess. Although things were better, the military was more zealous than necessary.
A few drops of rain hit Ion’s guild-issued wool cloak as the city walls came into view. Ion was abreast of the last summit of the Pako Cahin and the descent led right to the customs posts. Binak was one of the largest cities in the entire world and had massive walls, several dozen meters in height. The walls extend out into the bay where it morphed into a partial levee and drydock. The only place that Ion knew of that could rival the scale of this fortress of a port was the Capital.

>>20345703
2 of ?
Ion entered the fastflow processing line for emissaries. There were about six guards manning the gate: two inducting, two maintaining the lines, and two blocking the entrances. There were probably more guards inside though. The cloak he wore held a large insignia blackened cloud with bolts of lightning radiating out as if it were a star. A guard waved him over and asked for his papers. It was considered fraud to wear clothing of a particular guild if one was not a part of said guild. The visa was cleared without much of an issue though he could feel the cold stares of the peasantry. He thought he heard one man cast an aspersion, but regardless it was a trifle.
As Ion made his way down the central avenue the occasional drops were growing more consistent. He decided to stop at the Quail’s Egg Tavern, a place he had stayed once before, and the service was pleasant. He entered to an assortment of characters, sailors spinning tales, a pair of middle aged women engrossed in detailed gossip, and one fat bartender. There were about six or seven downcast patreons along the back wall that seemed disheveled but otherwise normal. Ion noted this and would investigate later. Shouldering his bag he ambled over to the bar.
“Well it’s been a long time since I’ve seen you, Ion! Why such a dark complexion?”
“Hah! Chester it looks like you are still doing some heavy lifting.”
The bartender cracked a smile. “What brings you to town my friend?”
“Guild business so unfortunately for you my lips are sealed.”
“Well’n aint doing no good to dwell on the unspoken.”
“You seem to have become popular,” Ion changed the subject, “I don't recall so many people the last time I visited.”
The bartender grunted, “I shouldn’t complain but we are being flooded with refugees, most are decent folk but they run out of money quickly and become vagrants. It’s only gotten worse, and more and more people are showing up raving about demons and witches. All sorts of gruesome tales of corpses found ripped apart and gutted.”
Ion nodded. “This is the calm before the storm, my friend.”

>>20345710
3 of ?
Ion placed the mutton stew on the desk of his room and sighed. He pulled out a thin cloth bound logbook and scratched a couple lines about what he saw and heard from Chester. He placed a series of alarms on his chamber door and windows. A bell that would clatter to the floor if the door handle were rattled. The window was latched but he placed some marbles along the seal just in case. He turned in for the night.

Ion headed to the Summa Libraria after a quick breakfast of apples and cheese. The inn where Ion stayed was near the north wall and the archivist guildhall known as the Summa Libraria was in the central plaza.The hall was a lengthy stone and brick gothic chateau with a hexagonal belfry that could peek over the colossal walls that protected the port city. As he passed the central plaza there were the sounds of organs thundering out from the triple spired cathedral. The gargantuan church was a titanic building of rich engineering and fine artistry that represented Lum’s gift of life to man. When Ion saw the gathering procession of townsfolk in their finest livery he realized it was the day of worship. He felt a yearning to follow the crowd and attend mass. He reflected on the pine pews he knelt at for hours as a child with the words of the missionaries and chuckled.

The Summa Libraria’s entrance was manned by two guards who wore simple mail and a breast plate with crossed quills embossed on the front. Ion whipped open his cloak causing the guards to jump and point their spears at the potential threat. They just as quickly retracted their weapons as they saw the writ Ion held out.

>>20345718
4 of 4
The entrance lead to a long hallway that was adorned with sculptures of scholars and artists until he reach the reticulum of the building. Ion’s jaw went slack and his eyes watered ever so slightly. The antechamber was rather large and had a gilded dome. There were two wings on each side that would encapsulate the Summa Libraria. In the center of the antechamber was an amalgamation of three renown master works. Two triptyches sat upon marble steps open to present the audience with illustrations of their existance. The paintings, each being stupendous enough for pilgrimages, paled in comparison to the centerpiece, a brobdingnagian marble oak tree that struck awe in all who witnessed it. “Beautiful, is it not?” A voice spoke amplified by the natural reverbation of the chamber. Ion turned to see a stout man of about fifty cycles with hard green eyes he could see from ten paces away.
“Quite so Friar. I must say I’ve seen many things in my thirty cycles but nothing like this.”
“Nothing is impossible with the guiding hand of Lum, you of all people should know that.” Ion nodded twinging in his gut from the collected gaze of the friar.
“Well I suppose we all have our talents.”
“Some are just more distructive than others.”
“Things are getting bad, Friar, I have come not to quarrel, but to gather information.”
“You have come here for the same reason as the rest. To seek salvation from the hands of the history but I regret to inform you that all of this.” The Friar waved his arms about the beautiful room. “This is temporal, everything you need to know is not here but in the nearest chapel!”
“Brother, you are in the business of saving souls, but I have responsibilities to my Guild, to my King. Though I know not what was spoken the Oracle has sent us a divination. There is still hope.”
“The Oracle? How do you know the Oracle has spoken? I have received no word of this and I am on the Council of Bishops.”
“Well I was tasked to inform you by Elder Blackmore. You will report this to the Bishops.”
“How am I to tell the Bishops when I have no proof? You don’t even have the prophecy!”
Ion pulled a sealed tube from the inside of his cloak and turned it about. “The prophecy is written here, I was entrusted to deliver it to you, why?”
The bishop in plain robes glared at Ion who broke into a crooked grin. “My talents of course.”
“What do you expect in return?”

Emily anon here.

Someone downloaded my book when I put it out for free on kindle for a limited time! Wow!

>>20345144
>ach
I don't know how this ending is supposed to be pronounced. Is it like -tch or does it end in a guttural sound?
If it's the guttural one then I'm only able to pronounce it because I speak Dutch. Anglophones don't stand a chance.

>>20345642
Why is that?

>tfw I read female authors work it effectively breaks my male writing brain.
Anyone else find this ?

>>20345726
ok i finished the chapter
Ion strolled up to the platform where the master works were on display and gazed on the triptychs. Liber to the left with scenes of fire and brimstone. There were characters being tormented by devils and monsters. “Liber is said to be where the souls of men who toil in sin reside after death. A place of punishing lessons.” On the right was a painting of Astra showing the great feats of man in service to Lum but it also depicted pain and frustration of life. In one panel there were raging storms and war but on the other it showed gardens and towering cathedrals. “Astra is where we live to experience free will and where we can experience the goodness of Lum.”
Ion gazed upon the tree, whose bark looked so real that if painted it would be indestigiushable. The branches were spread over the two works as if it were an embrace. Leaves and drangling moss carved so thin that it was a wonder they did not shed. A gentle face with closed eyes was the anthropomorphism of Lum.
“You mistake, Ion of Sturmblast. Lum’s goodness reaches us all especially those in Liber. You have not been reading your devotional. ‘In all things there is Lum and His presence is as brillant as the sun in the darkness, but only for those who choose to believe.’ chapter 7 verse 42. Look at the way the tree depicting Lum provides the necessary shade for the paintings so they remain as vibrant as they were two hundred cycles past.”
Ion nodded, “what we need in return is the guiding hand of the church to help us fight the scourge that defiles Lum’s gifts.”

My MC just had a shameful one-night stand. I'm so disappointed in him for doing that

>>20346054
Are you writing live and dumping it here as you go? Please use pastebin, Google docs, snip an image of the text, or something.

what could my MC gain from being a double double agent

>>20345703
>tenebrose clouds were beginning to gobble up the azure sky
awful
Otherwise you've got a lot - a lot - of proper nouns that you're introducing in this fairly short chapter. not even 2k words. Is this the first chapter? This is a lot of people and a lot of places and a lot of gods to introduce in such a small number of words, you should let things breathe more.

Also he goes to this inn he's stayed at only once, and yet he and the bartender are on a first name basis with each other like old chums.

Basically the guy enters town, it's raining, selects an inn, does nothing, waits until the next morning, then does what he wants to do. You may want to cut the inn entirely, you have it there purely as a device to produce exposition - and it shows - who gives a fuck about Chester, is he integral to the plot? Somehow I don't think so.

>>20346276
Opportunism. The power to pick either side depending on how the tide turns and being able to claim it was part of the plan all along.

>>20346233
pastebin wont let me go public

>>20346323
thanks for the advice
not the first chapter just wanted to dump the current chapter i was working on to see where the major problems are.

I need to revamp the inn scene. as this is the initial draft my plan was to expand that scene out. I do need to fix the relationship aspect between the bartender now that you pointed it out.

>>20346088
how could he do such a thing

>>20345234
He won't be surprised though. He won't be anything.

>>20346574
Alcoholism, and temptation

>>20345877
I quoted the relevant part right there, you fucking idiot.

>>20346888
I'm asking you to explain. Why does "tell a story" mean failure?

>>20346904
Because it shows that the person has the wrong mindset from the get-go. If you set out to “tell a story” then of course you’re going to err with too much “tell don’t show” since you think the reader just wants to be told things. They don’t. They want to EXPERIENCE the story, which is as the heart of “show, don’t tell.”
Not that I would expect you to understand, since clearly you’re not smart enough for this discussion since you needed me to explain.

>>20345234
I assume this means you know what happens then?

>>20345275
>creeping through the alleyways and down the canals.
>as he used to do when the sun got low
>being
>As
>three meters
>After looking around
>what he was looking for
>After another step, Arki quickly
Delete.
The tenses are confused. "had engulfed", "were brimming", maybe a couple of other spots. Engulfed, brimmed.
Stop using as unless two events happen at the exact same time. Get reacquainted with how to manage time in narration.
Stop introducing actions with he remembered, he thought, he looked. Just say that years ago the docks had brimmed with noise, that he noticed, etc.
The plot: you have an evocative city scene with some contrasting elements (the fog, the merry teasing) that bring it alive. What it needs is the set of meanings the observer necessarily imparts on it. We're looking at the city through Aki's eyes, yet he's a blank slate. Do the women make him angry? Does he yearn to see the ships of his boyhood?
Advice: read Techniques of the Selling Writer, learn how to lead from one sentence to another and how to keep the passage of time straightforward. Write 10 000 words of plot and action without ever using the word 'as'.
And good job, anon, keep at it.

>>20346986
I think you're reading too much into that.

>>20346986
You're reading into this way too much. If you tell a story, then they experience it. They experience a story by you telling it. You don't just use tell all the time nor do you use show all the time. A healthy balance is important. You took the "tell" part of tell a story as only tell no show and that's just the incorrect way to read the post. You can keep slinging insults at me if you want but I don't see a point in arguing with someone who missed the original point and dove off the deep end with the rest.

In a story with multiple viewpoint characters, do you prefer the characters to have some connection to each other at the outset, or only come into contact later on? I like the latter to show the multiple different factions at play, but it feels like I'm bloating my cast too quickly that way.

>>20347052
I feel like you shouldn't ever have too many at once. Start with one, maybe two early on, and then slowly roll out more if you want, having them link up in the last third or so.

>>20347052
well how many characters? Three is okay but when you get to 4+ is when you start to have characters that don't mean shit to the story

>>20347052
I started my story with 2: a king and his childhood friend, and it's stayed consistent between them for about 110k words. I've had flashes of a high ranking noble in the court giving her POV but it's mostly been them. It really allows me to play with the dichotomy and similarities between the two men.

>my side character is getting more development than my main character. What do?

>>20347125
Make the main character more interesting. That's really it.

should i do a daily web-novel, what would even be the point? it seems like a quick way to get burnt out after 60+ chapters

>>20347183
Don’t these fucking things go for like thousands of chapters?

>>20347183
>daily
Sounds awful. RIP

>>20347211
Yea, I don't even know how.
it seems like fillers are extremely common. But I would suspect after chugging along for 1000+ chapters you would get better at making plots as you go along

>>20347073
>>20347074
I agree, which is why I'm trying to get this sorted. It's a story wherein multiple factions are working toward the truth of a singular event that happened in the past. Three of the characters are really the "main" ones, any other additional viewpoints would likely just be minor, temporary ones. It felt like having them all know each other at the outset despite being from different walks of life would feel contrived, but then I feel like I run into the issue of ascribing too much relevance to side characters, since there would end up being quite a few with three different lives being followed around.

>>20347248
Three is doable. You can alternate one after the other to keep a consistent throughline, or just do whatever seems most appropriate, but any more than three major recurring viewpoints will be too much. Stick the minor ones in very infrequently, or only in the middle of other chapters, etc.

>>20347248
Having them be wholly unconnected could be a problem, as that means you're essentially telling three separate stories at once. It's been done (Stormlight Archive's first book has four major viewpoint characters and one of them doesn't even meet the other three until the next book, and only two of them really interact for any significant degree of time in the first few parts) but you'll probably want some connective tissue or characters between them, or get them meeting relatively early on so as not to muddle the story too much.

Do the anons from /crit/ still frequent this thread? Seems like this general has changed a lot since the last time I posted.

>>20345234
Cope, repent.

>>20347342
Crit was more or less folded in when anons started posting their work asking for feedback.

I'm thinking of making smut
god-forgive me

In March 2021, I decided to take a year long break from writing. I think it's going to be permanent. Writing is too difficult and time consuming. My ego is incredibly fragile. I can sort of deal with people shitting on my writing, but I can't deal with the personal attacks. Enough people tell me I'm stupid/ignorant as it is

>>20347756
have you thought about not giving a shit?
would rec this book

>>20347758
>Profanity in title
How to tell this was written by a midwit

>>20347855
content is actually really good and teaches you about not caring correctly
I don't know. Its a very helpful way of thinking.

What do you guys think of this scene? I'm trying to show them being miserable, yet hopeful, and be aware as regular people of what's going on with race riots in San Francisco

>>20347756
have you posted any excerpts of your work here? I want to know what story is being burned

>>20347756
I've stopped asking for critique on work I just wrote. I'm a thin-skinned bitch and can't stay motivated unless there are a few chapters between what's getting critiqued and what I'm working on.

Until I get good enough that my output stands on its own merit, I write to improve and to feel accomplishment. There's tension between the two. Learning without crit is hard, but crit takes away the good vibes. That's why I don't ask for crit on anything that's still giving me a nice buzz.

It probably slows my improvement, but not by as much as quitting writing for a year.

>>20347867
Plenty of anons have shit on my stuff and called it garbage, but they have very specific taste and I've only posted samples. People seeing the whole thing and telling me I'm a moron for thinking people would find it entertaining makes me wann kms.
>>20347877
I can get that. The problem for me is finishing something big and then having it torn apart. That's just how I view it.
>>20347758
I've been in therapy for just about a decade and I'm still a horrendously anxious mess/pussy who flips out at everything. I doubt it would help.

>>20347888
post it.

>>20347862
I like it, I'd read more.

How do I make the Empire that has conquered the MC's city less stereotypical and unlike many other conquering empires in fiction where they are either comically evil or "totally not rome"?

>>20347900
Make them right

>>20345518
Please share the work that cements your status as a master writer.
>>20346997
Unfortunately, we come back & have to put up with all this crap again.
So try to leave behind a good world...for yourself.
>>20345096
>Plot is of for idiots.
Clearly you're the expert on that.

>>20347862
It's ok, anon, but you're still overdoing it with the apostrophes. What's the difference in pronunciation between giv' and give?

You're not doing anything helpful by adding apostrophes. Maybe you think you're being grammatically correct somehow, but dialect is never grammatically correct.

I think you still have a lot of work to do in terms of writing readable dialect. Maybe if you have a contemporary book in mind take a look at how published writers are doing it. I doubt they're doing it like this.

Other than that, some of it doesn't ring true. Do you realiz that 50 eggs is just a little more than 4 cartons of eggs?

Whatever the principal and interest happens to be, it must be a joke if it's going to be paid back with even twice the number of eggs they're producing!

Other thing is that your Chinese dialect doesn't conform to the structure of Chinese grammar or Chinse flavor of Pidgin English. It would sound more correct if you said "Chicken all grow Spring time. We find more customer. I go Chinatown and sell egg. Maybe they buy. Sell to chicken house in Chinatown."

>>20345096
>>20345527
>>20345534
>>20345599
>>20345642
>>20346888
>>20346986
seethe

>>20347756
So what do you do with your spare time, then?
Just sit on your dead butt, watch TV, and play video games?
I don't expect my writing to go anywhere, or for anyone to warm up to it, but at least I'm not just vegetating.

>>20347917
>we come back & have to put up with all this crap again.
Pretty sure that's just hell

>>20347900
Is there a nation on Earth that you would be happy to have invade and conquer the place you live? I realise you asked how to make them less stereotypical but 'conquering Empire' can only really be just that. Even if they needed to conquer every city and civilsation to win a bet against a world-destroying ancient evil it wouldn't mean much to the people being conquered.

>>20347933
>Hell
You're not wrong.
Aldous Huxley said Earth is another planet's Hell.

>>20347900
Who was actually affected by the people doing the conquering? It shouldn't be the common people, for them it'll be one set of guards exchanged for another. They should be getting about their day to day affairs pretty much like normal.

The other thing is, successful empires are usually extremely tolerant and very open to keeping local customs, for the most part. If you don't want the Rome feel, research the british empire in india. Basically empires usually install a local governor - chosen from the locals - who implements what they want done.

>>20347919
Thanks anon.
>It's ok, anon, but you're still overdoing it with the apostrophes. What's the difference in pronunciation between giv' and give? >You're not doing anything helpful by adding apostrophes. Maybe you think you're being grammatically correct somehow, but dialect is never grammatically correct.
I dunno, in my head it sounded different. But if it's not working for the readers, I can change it.
giv' = gif
give = Giiiiveeee

>I think you still have a lot of work to do in terms of writing readable dialect. Maybe if you have a contemporary book in mind take a look at how published writers are doing it. I doubt they're doing it like this.
This has definitely been a challenge writing a period piece. I agree with you. Contemporary literature does not use ANY dialect or accents. Everyone speaks perfect American English. Even in Crazy Rich Asians they speak in perfect English. With the occasional "Ah YA!" or other short cultural sayings.
>Other than that, some of it doesn't ring true. Do you realiz that 50 eggs is just a little more than 4 cartons of eggs?
Yes, I did look it up, and adjusted the inflation rates. Eggs used to be stupidly expensive. 24 cents for a dozen ~ $10, so they got $50 which is $1900. It's under gold standard at this time so things exponentially increase. With the homestead act of 1860's interest is incredibly dirt cheap at the time. I did a lot of research on the monetary system and how it worked back then, and I get it makes little sense today, but back then the fluctuation of gold prices felt like it was set on the fly.
>Whatever the principal and interest happens to be, it must be a joke if it's going to be paid back with even twice the number of eggs they're producing!

>Other thing is that your Chinese dialect doesn't conform to the structure of Chinese grammar or Chinse flavor of Pidgin English. It would sound more correct if you said "Chicken all grow Spring time. We find more customer. I go Chinatown and sell egg. Maybe they buy. Sell to chicken house in Chinatown."
I like this. It made sense in my head, but I can definitely see what you're saying. I'll edit it.

>>20343397
20k words is a novelette.
You may just have to self-publish.
>>20343413
Post it on WattPad or RoyalRoad.
No one will be able to tell the difference.
>>20344802
I refuse to consider the stupidest among us when I write.

>>20347929
Yeah. I read and play video games. I only really wrote in the hope that maybe my grandmother and a few online friends might enjoy it. But I can't risk embarrassing myself. My life is empty and hollow, and it sucks. Writing was all I had but my ego can only take so much.

abraham's flesh eating demon yahweh isn't god and his self proclaimed incarnation yeshua ben yosef who came down to sacrifice himself to himself in order to protect people from himself was just a garden variety schizophrenic nut job. saul was the conniving yid who spread the death cult.

>>20344778
Any suggestions on what to read if I want to write a western?

>>20347993
>24 cents for a dozen ~ $10, so they got $50 which is $1900.
You fucked up your math.
24cents per dozen out of 50 eggs is only $1. Not $50, so they earned according to the inflation calculator in 1870' is about $21.

You have to up the number.

>>20348054
Son of a bitch! You're right anon!

>>20348059
It reads better to remove the sentence about principal and interest instead. Just have them ignore it for now and take in more debt.

>>20348001
Then post anonymously.
The only way to get better writing is to write, and purging all your "bad" ideas is necessary (but not sufficient, of course) to get to your good ideas.
Also...I hate to ask...but is picrel indicative of your reading tastes? Seems really NPC.

Just threw this together for an idea I had for a short story/novella where, in a haunted house, a ghost falls in love with a girl who moves in and is constantly cucked by not being able to touch her. He basically builds it all up in his head that he's living this amazing life with this girl he'll never see or touch or speak to.
Shitty idea, anons? Wouldn't mind some feedback.

It was afternoon and the motes of dust swirled lazily in the beam of the setting sun beaming through the gap between the curtains of the attic window. He sat with his legs crossed in a dusty armchair close to a bookcase stuffed with dusty harcovers. He loved quiet days like this where he could just sit and read the hours away undisturbed by the outside world. He just wished he had some new books. The whole week had been slow, actually, lulling him into a false feeling that they had finally given up trying to sell the house. As he sat there, pondering the plot of the book he was currently reading, he heard a car door shut outside. The walls were thin in the attic so he didn’t pay it any mind, at first, until he heard the sound of keys tinkling up the sidewalk and the deadbolt of the front door being shoved inside its housing. Then he heard footsteps. The thin clack of short heels on the wooden floor of the foyer traveled up the staircase, through the attic door and reached his ears. He slowly closed the book, having been distracted from it since he heard the car door, and stood up from the chair. He pressed his ear to the hatch that led to the staircase. A woman’s voice rang clearly through the empty rooms. It seemed to him that she was talking to another person, another woman, their heels tapped the waxed wood as they meandered out of the foyer and into the kitchen. He glanced over at his chair and the book that sat in it. He could continue on with that boring tome or just take a peek at who the realtor had brought in this time. Choosing the latter, he left the attic, quietly as possible, and went down the hall towards the kitchen.
>>20347900
maybe have the m put actual effort into repairing/helping the city and its citizens. Might be able to build that into a morally grey scenario
.>>20347862
I feel like the dialogue isn't realistic. I have no clue how these people are supposed to sound. Why would they say full words like "stagecoach" but shorten the word "asking"
>if yer askin' me
>>20346653
ain't that jus' the way. Was the sex at least good?
>>20345518
unironically based. But also post work.

>>20348098
I have a bunch of ideas on how to improve it, but whenever I go to write, I sit and stare at the Google doc for 5 minutes before closing the window. I just don't have the mental/emotional energy.
I only like reading science fiction, fantasy, that sort of stuff. I only read stuff that will help me escape from real life.

>>20348102
https://www.google.com/search?q=ghost+falls+in+love+with+human
Seems like it's been done.
But it also sounds like it could sell well, especially in the YA market.
Just write what you feel like.

>>20345096
Consider yourself lucky you got away with your depressing antics for this long.
You WILL be a writer.
You will write.
You will read.
There will be no excuses.

>>20348112
You sound blocked up inside.
You may need to purge.
Try writing stream-of-consciousness about anything, without regard to quality, or whether you'll even read it again.

Telling is the Yang. Showing is the Yin.
They are complements and complete.
One must not exist without the other.

>>20348102
That's a good plot.

>>20348112
>The dragon prince
Netflix is gonna kill season 4 right?

I'm philosophically mediocre

>>20348303
aren't we all?

>>20348303
Only one way to get better.
The rest of /lit/ discusses how pretty much full-time.

>If you have a book you would like us to consider, please write a proposal.
>a proposal
>please explain why this book matters right now to the intended readership
>please compare it to competitive titles
>titles that you haven't read and don't want to read
>please talk about your target audience, in this era where no one reads books
>tell us your marketing plan, because we sure as shit don't have one
>please tell us about your already existing platform, which if you already had, you wouldn't need a traditional publisher
hey, I have an idea: how about I just do all the fucking work for you, you stupid kike assholes? Yeah. How about I put on a suit and tie and fly on down to your office in the big city and I sit at your desk and answer all your phone calls and read all your emails and then go home and fuck your fat faggot wife for you? Then I can drop your stupid fucking kids off at soccer practice and visit your mom at the nursing home for you. Then I can go to the book launch party, oh wait, you don't go to those or do those, do you? And then when I'm all finished I'll tag you back in and you can take all the fucking credit. How's that sound?

>>20348303
Get older desu

>>20345256

look up some samples. can't go wrong with:

initial opening sentence/short paragraph about the query (or jump into the next paragraph)

hook/paragraph about book

paragraph about book

book word count, genre, debut, comp titles, series or standalone

bio

personalization (probably not necessary) and close

t. guy who queried a book but didn't get an agent so take this with a grain of salt, but this is fairly industry standard

>>20348345
This is the funniest thing I've read today. It also makes me wonder why the fuck I ever thought about trad pub.

>>20348345
Look basically I don't have a target audience and just write for me

>>20348386
It's the truth, but you might as well not send a query at all if you plan on saying something like that

>>20348392
Sir you're talking to an unsuccessful self-published author

>>20348386
Sounds great. We just need a more fitting Apu. A more mature and refined Apu.

>>20348345
lel
instant meme

>>20348112
>>20348001
>>20347756
>only reads Star Wars, Marvel and video game novels
Why is anyone responding to this obvious bait?

>>20348463
for the opposite reason that you're seething

>want to write fantasy
>too lazy to do detailed world building
>ctrl+f change all my locations to vaguely similar real world places
>call it "alternative history fiction"
heh its too easy

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DRlv01MC7xhMr06IDZ-Y1BBDQkuc7cdsb34GJe5JFwU/edit?usp=sharing

Hell-Anon here.

I wrote a new chapter today. It took a lot out of me. It's titled "In Memoriam" and I had to find a place to sneak it in... It's definitely a rough draft still. Kind of hit close to home.

Thank you guys for the support and encouragement. I love all of you. We're all gonna make it.

If you write a rhetorical question, is the proper form "he said" or "he asked"?

>>20348556
He rehetoriced

what is the word for when a work has been edited or changed but traces of the original author can still be detected? I know there is a word for it but I can't remember

I am sorry I have tried googling it with no luck

>>20348620

nevermind I found the word it is palimpsest

>>20348648
I would have gone with unsuccessful plagiarism

I was watching the Julia Child's biopic (mixed bag because it has the typical hbo pandering but good acting) and the relationship between Julia and her editor Judith (who worked with John Updike, among others) was very comfy/heartwarming. I wonder if that is common among writers editors, I honestly doubt it was extremely romanticized (maybe a bit) for the show since both got along very well in real life.

>>20347344
Stop larping

>read two year old draft
>it's good
What the fuck? It only needs editing. Now what excuse do I have for not writing?

>make book free on kindle
>5 sales in one day
Fuck. I did it for free.

>>20348980
You got sales because they’re free.
Free downloads are counted as sales.

I write short stories using people I meet in my daily life as characters. I can generally write a "90% draft" in less than a day. I do it all the time, mainly for my blog or for friends to enjoy. I spend more time on stories that I'll actually be publishing (mostly doing stuff like tweaking dialogue and applying more show-don't-tell, which can take quite some time. Lots of iteration).

I'm putting the finishing touches on a story right now. This one is more of a "total rewrite," unlike the previous one (which is already out there, and has had over a thousand comments already).

I wrote these stories alone. After this one is out the door, I'll return to the novel I've been working on for a year and a half. These were just "side trips," because I was getting burned out.

Novels are intended to tell narrative stories. If you use a different pattern, then "you're doing it wrong." That is not always bad. I can't actually think of any examples right now, but I'm sure that some of the new methodologies can be effective.

I strongly suspect that some of the new writing styles (I won't name them, because holy wars) were developed specifically to cater no longer to people that spend all their time alone, but rather to people who want to discuss what they read in a fairly large group of casual, uneducated folk.

Might work out. I don't know. That's not how I write. YMMV.

>>20349060
I had no opinion on your story 5 minutes ago. I now have a negative opinion.

>>20347917

First episode of my cartoon
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JlNiNOHvPvW35jsoHjyk3lDVR3UMBkEH/view?usp=drivesdk

Second episode

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pHx7i3mxXKfrKDqtLVNg2cMYc-J8__TH/view?usp=drivesdk

I'm too lazy to write
Every time I sit down with a pen i just open /lit/ instead

>>20349153
We know, you dumb frogposter.

>>20349172
Sorry :(

How do to make autistic character likeable?

>>20349194
Make them funny. Funny Rainman.

So tired of all this

1/3

1/3

2/3

3/3

>>20347004
NTA, but this advice helps me out too. Thank you very much anon.
Also, here's an epub for that bookif anyone needs it:
https://files.catbox.moe/aurejo.epub

>>20349583
Correction: https://files.catbox.moe/a7rejo.epub
I hate autocorrect on tablets

>>20347744
It sells.

greeks wrote about automatons
is it too much of a stretch that a wizard puts the soul of a dead man inside of an automaton?

>>20349608
>too much of a stretch
Why would it be? Sounds completely reasonable. Go for it.
There's golems too.

>>20349613
could someone's soul be transmutated from a golem and an automaton back to a human vessel

>>20349614
It's your story, your rules. If you say it can be then it can. If you say it can't then it can't.
Golems exist if say so, or don't exist if you don't.

>>20349614
Like that anon said... If you think it should, then make it happen. If not, then don't. It's your story, you're God.

Are there any artforms you don't understand? I've tried hard to get into comics and manga, but fail to see how it can be an apotheosis of storytelling as some seem to think. I also cannot watch films very often.

>>20349741
>I've tried hard to get into comics and manga
I doubt you tried very hard.

>start method acting for 2 weeks with a con artist that cornered me on a dating app, now Im pretending to love as source material for a story
>get 5k words in when the chat disappears
Well shit. I think I learned enough to keep going, with some imagination I already see girls' SOP on manipulating men.

>>20349746
>I doubt you tried very hard.
I've bought nearly all of Junji Ito's stuff, read it all, gave it away and never thought twice about it. I also have Araki's Louvre graphic novel which is kinda boring; I've read JoJo Phantom Blood several times and every time it seems really undercooked. I have read the Berserk Golden Arc and it's just depressingly over the top and has a thin thematic veneer keeping together the power fantasy (I find Howard did S&S much better in short story form). As for comics, I got into V for Vendetta and cannot be bothered finishing it even though everyone says Moore is a genius. I also got into I Kill Giants but that's just quirky indie manga/comic without much to it. I downloaded Vinland Saga today and it's shit, so I dropped it.

>>20349614
Yes, see Pinnochio and Android 18 (Dragon Ball Z)

the more i research western mythology the more i realize how much influence it has in japanese videogame stories, from castlevania to devil may cry to shin megami tensei and so on, this automaton i just looked up resembles the first boss in super smash brothers brawl's subspace emmisary

>>20349765
Like I said, you didn't try very hard at all.
>read the equivalent of straight-to-video action movies
>complain they aren't as good as the classics of the western canon
Wow. What was even the logic by which you chose these stories to read? Whatever's popular on reddit?

>>20349776
>>complain they aren't as good as the classics of the western canon
I don't even believe the "western canon" is real, doofus. Academics largely disagree on whatever that list is, completely made up by pseuds. I'm saying the actual form of comics and manga is impossible to make good art with.
>Whatever's popular on reddit?
You would know, maybe you should go back to r/comics.

>>20349765
Now try Little Nemo in Slumberland. Your selection is very narrow.

>>20349765
are you that same troll autist in /bant/ that keeps making book threads dabbing on "chuds" cause you call listening reading?
>>20349780
>I'm saying the actual form of comics and manga is impossible to make good art with.
kill yourself
>>20349765
sincerely sounds to me like you just skimmed the whole thing giving mere glances to the art or you didnt read any of that stuff at all and you're just baiting like you usually do fucking autistic faggot

>>20349781
Or on second thought, Asterix and Carl Barks.

>>20349788
oh look i got dubs, meaning what i say is true and you're some nigger faggot that gets off on baiting people with your idiotic posting, go fuck yourself retard get a fucking life

>>20349780
Looks like I hit a nerve. You picked
>Junji Ito
Basically Stephen King.
>JoJo
Homoerotic action schlock.
>Berserk
Blood and gore that evolves into an exploration of the author's obsession with nude children.
>V for Vendetta
Young anarchist hippy Alan Moore shitting on conservatives
>Vinland Saga
21st century gender politics in the 9th century.
You didn't even try. You just picked up whatever's popular on reddit. You have no interest in comics as a medium. Do you know who Will Eisner is? Do you know who Dave Sim is? Have you ever heard of Osamu Tezuka or Jiro Taniguchi? Shinichi Sakamoto? David Mazzucchelli? Chris Ware? Takehiko Inoue? Even Art Spiegelman?
No, I don't think you know who any of those people are. Because you don't care about comics, you never even wanted to learn.

>>20349788
You are very mad and it's so funny to me. Get out of /wg/ if you actually think comics and manga are art. YWNBAW.

>>20349798
That's some good bait. Here's to you! Ya got me!

>>20349798
>YWNBAW
says the faggot baiter making these shit troll threads every day
>>15172394
>>15163609
kill yourself

>>20349806
>>No.15172394
>>No.15163609
cunt

>>20349804
>>20349806
I know a guy who tried to collab on a comic with me and he's literally a stinky Jeet who can barely parse Aristotle for a degree he took 6 years to finish. Go figure.

>>20349810
What kind of collab?

>>20349810
so one retard jeet wanted to make a capeshit ripoff and that means comics as an artform are shit then according to you
kill yourself retard

>>20349815
For the first job, he wanted me to do was help make his broken English better. I declined because I was studying and he wasn't offering any compensation and wanted my name on the cover (I'm not doing that for a project I don't like). He paid some dude in a third world country to do the art. Now, he wants me help him write a political suspense story and I think he wants to draw it.

>>20349826
Well that sounds weird. How'd he end up so enamored with you?

>>20349826
>gross jeet wont stop harrasing me about writing his shitty autistic comic therefore ALL comics are bad and comic books as a medium for storytelling are bad and also not true art you will never be a woman
kill yourself

>this gross autistic jeet wrote some shitty book therefore all books are bad
kill yourself retard
this is your brain on estrogen

>>20349830
I think he’s just lazy and wants me to do the leg work. He’s a pothead. And he knows I’ve had a few publications. It’s not much or that prestigious, but lots of people don’t realise trad publishing isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
>>20349831
Well I’ll look up what the other guy said was good and try to change my mind.

>>20349842
>He's a pothead
And that's where all the problems begin and end.
> I’ll look up
Notice how you didn't say you'd read any of it, just that you'd look it up. You do understand you have to still READ the comics to make judgements on them, right?

>>20349842
>I think he’s just lazy and wants me to do the leg work. He’s a pothead
jeets are fucking autistic, i saw a video of one just standing in a small store refusing to leave just standing there like a fucking weirdo had to be dragged out by guards and started screeching in indian or something and we've all seen their shenanigans online, do MILK
>>20349842
>Well I’ll look up what the other guy said was good and try to change my mind.
your mind is going to associate any comic you read with that retard and you're going to automatically dislike it, dont bother
>>20349844
>Notice how you didn't say you'd read any of it, just that you'd look it up. You do understand you have to still READ the comics to make judgements on them, right?
also this

>>20349844
I have limited time on this planet and limited good books to read. Why would I bother with what some angry comic sperg thinks? I’ll do it in my own time if I even care by tomorrow.

>>20349854
Which goes to prove my original point of you not even trying very hard.

>>20349854
no nigger just dont talk shit about an entire fucking medium cause you got grossed out by some retarded dude weed jeet retard

Writing General, amirite?

>>20349861
Let's be honest, you're never going to write anything.

>>20345144
speak fluent Enlglish and no nothing of the Irish language except that Eoghan is pronounced Owen or Ewan I think
>Dilly-ack
>math-gummayn
>sestay-ack
>dweysel
>Togohl
>Krettin
>Aymir
>Dayckteen
>Fergus
>E-yay-gan
>Day-ora
>Dia-nair
>Ay-anna
>la-care
>o-yohl
>porant
>Gab

>>20349866
Fitzgerald told me otherwise

>>20349468
Stopped at the first sentence. Runs on and on and isn't interesting at all.

>>20349892
He's a guy who threw people's wallets into a kettle and boiled them, is that really who you want to listen to?

>>20349896
If I had a schizophrenic wife I'd probably be doing the same thing after a few years

>>20349866
I'm trying man. I should stop visiting this stupid place, but...

>Don't forget, you're here forever!

>>20349940
I've written nothing since the 8th, when I did a 1200 word fapfic for a /jp/ thread.

>>20349943
It's all coming together eventually. My biggest issue is I keep letting my schedule fluctuate and I need to prioritize more time to write. Good thing is at least Ive been reading. Melmoth the Wanderer is definitely a slog.

Is this the sort of garbage we have to write now to get noticed? It's just a bunch of technobbble. Fuck humanity

>>20349964
It's digestible action for the "I heckin' love SCIENCE" crowd. A sort of snobby MacGyver.

>>20349964
Im just going to continue writing like Faulkner.

>>20349972
It's pretty awful. Nothing insightful, just "cool" ideas

>>20349598
people actually pay for smut stories?

>>20349153
i go through the same thing every day
one trick that works for me is the "chill beats" video on youtube
once i hear "chill beats" music, i write

>>20349598

>>20350003
Same but with Genshit music, but only for 1st drafts. Each project I make a specific playlist for, recently been listening to Chopin's nocturnes with focus on different keys for each chapter.

>>20350045
good to know

>>20350066
When I was scraping Amazon data for advertising, a significant portion of top-selling books were smut

>>20350074
is there a way to do that with twitter art trends or pixiv?

>>20350074
also what kind of smut

>>20349583
>>20349590
I'm the guy that keeps shilling that book. It really is a gem; no idea why it's not in the general. Gospeed, anon

>>20350090
Probably, but I've never tried images before. Web scraping is fairly simple and you can find tutorials or even software like parsehub to do it in less than a day.
>also what kind of smut
Pic related off the top of my head

>>20349964
i liked this trilogy
but he throws all the popular scifi tropes in too

>>20347862
>stirred the boiling water as he shuffled the water around
That is what stirring means. Delete.
>took a sigh
You do no take sighs, you take breaths. You give sighs. Better yet, you sigh.
>any eggs for us for the week
Weird dialogue. "It's not enough. We'd have had more to eat if we'd kept the eggs instead of selling. Two dead chickens, three stubborn ones, and the principal is due in a week. With interest."
The next bit is better, but I would have Montgomery straightening out the newspaper before "Thirty-two Men...", give it a bit of color. You don't need to make your characters into chronic fidgeters, but breaking up larger chunks of dialogue keeps things lively.
>the three agreed they needed flooring, but for now, it was a luxury they could not afford
"Flooring was a luxury they could ill afford."
>The day continued
No. They ate and made small talk. All days continue, so there's no need to mention it. Let the reader know when the day stands still or turns back around, but otherwise delete.
Good bit of writing, anon, looks good.

1/4

>>20350172

2/4

>>20350176

3/4

>>20350179

4/4

>>20348544
I read the first page and it flows really well, anon, congrats. You clearly know what you're doing.
The one bit I didn't like was the Lovecraftian madness thing. It's too genre-aware/memey. Don't describe what the brain does or doesn't do, jump straight to the face. Stimulus-reaction. "What are perhaps the strangest aspects of his appearance though" is the same. You don't need to tell me it's strange, you need to describe it in contrasting terms with the rest of the person, so I can decide what's stranger. Stimulus-reaction.
Keep at it! I'll definitely come back and read more.

>>20350182

Just a sketch that I'll probably expand into a bigger piece. I can already see a few repeated words and random blusters/odd choices but I'd generally like to keep it succinct like this at the very beginning once I edit it more.

>>20348670
Humorously close, anon, nice.

"Hermit"

1/2

>>20350242

2/2

>>20350193
Thank you, I think some of that is just my voice bleeding through into the narration, but that's actually really, really good feedback. I'm going to take that and see what I can do with that in mind. Thank you again, anon!

>>20348544
God damnit bro, I have an exam tomorrow why you gotta sabotage me like this. Jokes aside I love your shit, well done mate. I've been glancing at your stuff since you first started posting here, and I gotta say you legitimately motivate me to write more and get better, thank you anon.

>>20350242
Opens in present tense and immediately switches to past. Voice did not sound like a child i.e. "it is said by those with a poverty for adventure that..."

Weird story, felt like it was meant to convey something but I didn't really get what you were going for - kind of like listening to a homeless guy.

>>20350328

It's just a sketch, I don't plan on expanding it but the motif of modern-day hermitage is something I come back to often. I thought it would be funny if they were found and blackbagged like some Abu Graib prisoners or something.

>>20349468
Disagree with the sadsack demotivational poster. The first sentence is quite good. Criticism:

1
>as
Stop using "as". It's a bad habit of new writers that needs to be excised with extreme prejudice. "As" is only for actions that happen at the same time, and yours are subsequent.
>In total darkness...
This sentence is a messy jumble. "We sat in silence, the darkness broken only when another poor sap was thrown in with us. After a while, I even wished for it, that more men could be condemned, so I could see the barest hint of light."
>black absolute darkness
"No!"
And this feels like a weird delivery system. Men can be thrown in by a single woman, but food is dropped from above into a completely dark room? One, this would likely kill somebody fast. Two, it leaves a mess of wood and nails on the floor. How long until someone stabs the little lady in the eye? Three, how long are these people here for, that a complex hole-in-the-ceiling had to be built to feed these guys?

2
This one answers a few of my questions, but I still find it weird that people are unceremoniously thrown in by a single woman.
>instead of the one leading back to the main room
Delete. "...that I leave. I obliged, but going deeper in, finding this pattern repeated: tunnel, room, tunnel, room, for a dozen cycles." This also eliminates the pleonastic "kept continuing."
>"one man inside"
Put a period here. It's a huge sentence already. Stop, then, "The room at the very end tapered to the same conical shape I'd found in that first dead-end room." Also, you've already said it's the last room, reiterating that no other tunnels start from it is a waste of space.
>noone shared.
Eh. "I had taken me hours to reach this final dead end. The room was silent, and I thought maybe I had finally found solitude. That's when I heard a tiny voice."

3
Though I like the ending, the first half of this page feels like a rough draft and needs a lot of work. The conversation especially has no resemblance to any dialogue that I've ever heard. It should begin with the tiny voice (what is it saying?) not the screams (why is the protagonist shouting?). It should definitely not boil down to "Me? I'm digging the cones, which feels like the beginning of an answer the reader must be starting to make around this time. You should go now." "Ah, k, bye."
In general, it feels more like an exercise than an actual beginning to something. Do you have an endgame or is it just a sequence of dream-like events?

>>20349741
When you first start engaging with a new artform, you don't have the necessary vocabulary to understand why it's good or bad. You can like or dislike it just fine, but you won't be able to see how it's an "apotheosis" of anything at all until you interact seriously with the medium.

>>20349741
>>20350403
Read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud.

>>20350326
thank you Anon... You have no idea how much a comment like that means to me. I just roadmapped out the next 80% of the story I have in mind, but right now I'm hung up on how I'm going to get to the very next plot point that serves as the springboard for everything else. It's something really small and innocuous, but I also want the encounter to feel organic and not like it's been shoehorned in.

I've finally come up with a character who's I think has good energy interacting with a protagonist. However, he's a Han Chinese immigrant from one of the northern provinces and I'm pretty sure the way I write his accent is going to get called racist. It's almost certainly wrong but I don't speak Mandarin and have no idea how a native speaker's Engrish would sound.

What do?

(Not the chicken farm anon, by the way, he's someone else.)

>>20349964
I'm reading Greg Egan's latest and so far it's geometry fanfic. Pages upon pages explaining how a wooden bridge across outer space could be constructed if gravity did loopdeloops through an arch.
I don't know where I'm going with this. It doesn't have mainstream appeal but it sure has readers, me included.

>>20350409
Eh, disagree. It's a stupendous book (much better than McCloud's attempts at fiction), but it won't make for riveting literature until anon wants to know why and how comics can be good art. While he's still in the 'hurr durr words wit pictures' stage it's just feeding pearls to swine.

>>20350431
I have a weird issue, actually. I've sort of 'skipped' the start of my story because I'm not sure quite how I want to introduce the protagonist. Right now, I've got a good 40k words in the bank past those first 4 opening chapters, but I keep going back and revising them when I think of something new that I want to add / rework, since I want to set the guy up right. I'll post some bits of it later / tomorrow so I'm not just talking about vague shit, but I'm conflicted on how to give that bit of oompfh to the opener, if you catch my drift.

>>20350471
I don't really think that's a bad thing, I have material that I've written on the side that doesn't fit in chronologically yet. Write what you feel inspired to write in the moment, in my opinion at least. I feel like that's when you're going to do your best work.

>>20350438
Make him speak clear but structure it as broken English with a heavy Chinese accent. Everyone knows someone who sounds like this:
>"What! What you mean you not have spoon? I have spoon in China! Flattened it to make a spade," he said with a smug grin. "Then that tāmāde Mao Zedong take it from me. But I have second spoon! I had spoon in Communist Chiiiina. How you not have spoon in America?"

>think trad publishing is great
>try to get published
>send inquiries
>agent likes materials, but asks for target audience
>asks for marketing strategy
>asks me if I have existing platform
I stopped replying.
What the fuck is the point of trad publishing if I have to do all this fucking legwork but I make a smaller cut than self publishers?

>>20350523
>What the fuck is the point of trad publishing
Legitimacy

>>20350451
Feels bad, man. Maybe something like The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck is where he should start instead.

>>20350523
What's the last self published book you read?

>>20350363
>It's just a sketch, I don't plan on expanding it
Okay I guess you don't need to read or even consider any reader feedback then. Bend over and close your eyes so I can pat you on the head for your great ideas.

>>20350371

Thank you kindly for the words, anon. This started as an exercise, I pretty much just imagined the cave in the courthouse and kept going from there. I like to start out with a super evocative, succinct image and just go from there in a stream of consciousness.

>Stop using "as".

Duly noted

>One, this would likely kill somebody fast. Two, it leaves a mess of wood and nails on the floor. How long until someone stabs the little lady in the eye? Three, how long are these people here for, that a complex hole-in-the-ceiling had to be built to feed these guys?

The food chute was the only real edit/addition I made - these guys have to eat, somehow. In general I'd like to actually add in more stuff like this, make it more dreamy so that the prisoners that were all there with him start to doubt it or remember different things altogether. Like, the cave in the courthouse section would be this pre-amble which isn't mentioned again until much later and by then it's such a totally black and miserable distant memory

>Put a period here. It's a huge sentence already. Stop, then, "The room at the very end tapered to the same conical shape I'd found in that first dead-end room." Also, you've already said it's the last room, reiterating that no other tunnels start from it is a waste of space.

Just curious, do you think huge sentences *ever* work?

>It should definitely not boil down to "Me? I'm digging the cones, which feels like the beginning of an answer the reader must be starting to make around this time. You should go now." "Ah, k, bye."

I found this really funny and bizarre/dreamy when I wrote it and I still do but I'll probably bin it in the edit. Usually my dialogue doesn't sound like video game NPCs - out of all my writing this probably has the least amount of dialogue hands down - and I still really like the idea of someone being on the other end of the wall of the very last room, somehow.

Great suggestions and thoughts all around.

The general endgame was for it to almost be a mirror of Journey to the Center of the Earth - the titular prison would be like the tropical inner-earth in that book, some sort of secret paradise. I was going to go for a "farcically corrupt and dehumanizing filthy prison" angle when I first started the piece but that feels a bit boring.

>>20350172
>>20350176
>>20350179
>>20350182

Did you read this by any chance? I wrote this the same night as the cave sketch and it more or less ends on the same note.

>>20350523
Who is Cormac McCarthy's target audience? Do lots of women read his stuff considering he was on Oprah?

>>20350584
To add to the dreaminess and dehumanization, I would add some further barrier to entry. The prisoners are themselves dropped from the food chute, and the door only opens when it's time to go. I would also add a couple of mentions of time passing, probably before the explorations begin.
Since the entire section happens in the dark, it reminded me of Saramago's Blindness. I know this is a short section, but maybe read that for a good example of people having to orient themselves by means other than sight in a prison-like environment.
>Just curious, do you think huge sentences *ever* work?
I'm Portuguese, we exclusively write in long-ass sentences nested inside other, longer, sentences. It works in the hands of a master (like Saramago, incidentally).
I will read that other one while this thread is up and come back with comments.

>>20350558
>Okay I guess you don't need to read or even consider any reader feedback then. Bend over and close your eyes so I can pat you on the head for your great ideas.

On the contrary, pretty much every part of the buffalo is used with my writing. This tidbit will show up in something else later. It's all a giant snowball. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

>>20350623
My mom read The Road in one sitting.

Do you hate it when one of the characters in a story says, "here's the plan."?
And the writer skips the part where the plan is explained?
And then the story continues
And there's this big plot twist
And the plot twist is part of the plan? And everything becomes clear to the reader?
I guess what I'm asking is: do you hate it when the author hides stuff from you?

>>20350623
there's that one story "all the painted ponies," if i remember correctly
it's a romance but the ending is a tragedy.
women like romance

>>20350688
It's sort of a trope wherein if the audience knows about the plan, it can't go off properly. So a plan that is NOT explained 'on-screen' will work far more often. Not always, but still. It can work, though I find it annoying when no plan at all is even mentioned and it's like "All according to plan" midway through bad shit happening.

>>20350558
>What’s the last self published book you read?
Was this a serious question?
Show me a better trad published author than this self published 4chan user.

>>20350688
It depends on how frustrating or relevant it is. Sometimes I see.
>"what town is this"
>the boy told him
And that doesnt bother me at all. I think it depends on how much they raise the alarm that something is hidden from you. I would much rather feel slightly uncomfortable in a scene, not know why, and then recontextualize it later without forcing you to sit down and recognize it. Authors that telegraph the suspense too much is annoying and insulting.

>>20350693
>tragic romance
Okay guess im marketting that angle.

>>20350627
>I'm Portuguese, we exclusively write in long-ass sentences nested inside other, longer, sentences. It works in the hands of a master (like Saramago, incidentally).

Does Saramago translate well to English? Any other similar stuff you'd recc? I come from a poetry background FWIW, I've been writing for almost two decades but mostly poems and journals. I only started writing prose about a year ago. I'd be very interested in any run-on-core I can find - I have a few larger pieces with page-long sentences that are a joy to read and edit but I'll probably be sitting on them for a while for whatever reason

>To add to the dreaminess and dehumanization, I would add some further barrier to entry.

Totally agreed, I was thinking along these lines as I wrote it but felt like I shouldn't be spending too much time in the cave to begin with, haha

>I would also add a couple of mentions of time passing, probably before the explorations begin.

Yeah this was really an angle I missed as well, duly noted.

Definitely going to edit and expand. I'd really like to make the scene of the last room with the man on the other side or the wall come off as genuinely creepy. Thanks again, your words and suggestions have really inspired me.

>>20350532
Legitimate to who?
I have literally never looked to see who or where a book was published.

>>20350371
>Stop using "as". It's a bad habit of new writers that needs to be excised with extreme prejudice. "As" is only for actions that happen at the same time, and yours are subsequent.
Oh shit. I learned something today.

What are some good screenplay contests to enter my horror script?

>>20350371
Your feedback is amazing, anon. NTA, but it's giving me a lot to think about.
Thank you.

>>20350097
Not a problem, it should be included in the OP

>>20342726
Then why did that guy say that?

How do I come up with good names? I especially don't want something to happen where I name a character and, years later, encounter a douchebag who happens to have the same name as my character.

>>20351540
Nigga be creative.

>>20351556
But how?

new thread
>>20345513

>>20351587
This one isn't finished, dicksplash

>>20351587
Why did you make an early thread?

>>20351412
Say what?

>>20351590
>>20351587
>>20351625
It's there for when this one hits bump limit obviously. You guys need to spend more time on boards with rolling generals that get multiple of them made at a time

>>20351737
/lit/ is a slow board you dumbfuck. We don’t need to have a new one made when this thread hasn’t even reached the bump limit.

>>20351667
Read the post chain.

>>20351800
I am "that guy". I don't know what you're confused by.

>>20351751
If you looked at when the thread was made, you'd have known it was made around the time this one was made. So he didn't "make" an early and new thread. He's pointing to the new thread we should migrate to once this one hits bump limit, which is an old thread, not an early and new one.

>>20348016
True Grit
Blood Meridian

>>20351811
It was made 3 hours later, you idiot.

>>20349468
You can probably write it better, anon. It's not bad, but it lacks realism. Not enough detail, too much generalization and some grautituous adjectives that don't contribute to a sense of the scene.

You realize also that you are veering dangerously into misogyny...

>>20350179
This is the weakest of the pages posted. The description of the travel is not very good, veering into purple and verbose, imprecise prose.

The story is ok though as the beginning of a first draft.

>>20351835
Yes, around the time this thread was made. Weren't you in the last thread? This one wasn't linked in the last thread but because it was earlier people went to it. If memory serves, this thread was made before bump limit of the last, so this is actually the early thread. The other one was made on time.

>>20351173
I'm actually both those anons. Techniques of the Selling Writer touches on it, but the 'as' thing got drilled into my skull when I read a terrie self-pubbed litRPG thing and one word out of six was 'as'. Once you notice it you never stop noticing it.

>>20351872
>You realize also that you are veering dangerously into misogyny...
perish the thought

>>20351805
This
>>20342191
What are you basing it on

>>20350179

>>20351540
Melifluous words that describe character. A rough, tough, brick of a Colonel is a McCraig, a wheedly snake of a lawyer is a Uriah Heep. Say the names out of loud until you reach a sound that fits the character.

>>20351922
Experience of what I've seen from published webnovels. Most of the bigger ones are Mountaindale, Aethon, or self-published, that I've seen.

>>20351952
But neither of those two pick up webnovels.

>>20351957
Aethon has picked up He Who Fights With Monsters and Defiance of The Fall, both webnovels.

>>20351961
>>20351957
Also I mistyped, I meant published LitRPGs. Aethon has picked up some webnovels, whereas Mountaindale seems to be just LitRPGs in normal book form.

>>20350172
As promised:

>by no fault of my own
How did he cause it if he had no fault? I am intrigued, but also annoyed.
I like the first paragraph. Nice, sonorous, and distinctive. Great start, anon. Just delete either the 'I caused' or the 'by no fault..." As I suspected, it can only be one of the two, and whether he owns up to it or refuses to take responsibility, it's a great way to establish character.
>was poorly dressed
"Who dressed poorly", unless the father was only underdressed for that specific occasion.
>"...or just force them... them alone."
Delete. It's funnier (and good job at making it funny!) if you don't press it.

>>20350176
>"has no interest"
Had.
>"My father's eyes..."
Wordy and overlong sentence. So much so that you need to repeat 'father'. Cut it in two. And eyes don't trail off, voices do.
>speech
You had a nice and characterful start, but this here is just caricature. Circle back and define a couple of things about the father. Is he a pagan, a devout Catholic, or insane? Why is he saying all this? Do you need direct speech (no one needs all this direct speech) or just a couple of choice quotes? Delete the all caps immediately.
>"...left home and was taken..."
Left implies own volition, taken implies lack of.
Nice bit with the priest but entered what chamber? The confessional? A good Catholic boy would know the words of his faith, and his author should know them too.

>>20350179
>soon
I realize this happens in America, but 4 days isn't soon.

Nice little start, and not the work of a beginner. There's a nagging need to sound clever that I think you can grow out of with practice. The last thing I will say is that the initial paragraph establishes a sort of pact with the reader (let me tell you about this fire), and this is never realized. The story needs a proper introduction, though if you, like I suspect, wrote it stream-of-thought and had no idea where you going, thst's to be expected.
Good job, all in all, now stop with the exercises and show me something you actually worked on for more than twenty minutes. You have talent, but you need to put in work.

>>20351872

>You can probably write it better, anon.

Yes, pretty much everything has been very rushed and stream of consciousness lately, the cave story is actually quite weak - but like I mentioned, I was trying to write it as a quick, bizarre pre-amble to a bigger story and ended up really liking it and not wanting to leave the cave.

I've started editing it a bit and there are so many details - men lying on the ground everywhere, or being weird or hostile, or trying to join him. I'm not sure if the repetitive series of cave, tunnel, cave, tunnel is actually scary. I could definitely do more with the guy being blind and having to creep around or fight some guy in a pit over a box of matches... I want to definitely slow everything down but still keep it at like 9-12 pages so it's still just a pre-amble or prolog.

>>20352103
>I was trying to write it as a quick, bizarre pre-amble to a bigger story and ended up really liking it and not wanting to leave the cave.
god damn it anon plato warned you about this and you didn't listen

I failed AGAIN.
I had a cool, fun, idea I explored and contemplated and realized there were too many problems with writing it. I hate myself.

How do I write a script for a review (of a book, game, movie, etc.) to post on youtube? I have no experience in writing. Don't judge pls.

>>20352206
What was the idea?

>>20352254
That more an essay, I'd say. Been to school/college? Do that. Outline the points you want to talk about, dedicate a paragraph to each issue and try to lead as naturally as possible from one point to the next. Cap it off with your feelings on the game/book/movie in general, and what the worst/best bits were.
The only reviewer I watch is Yahtzee, though, so don't believe me.

>>20352276
>Been to school/college?
I never did an essay on school...
But I'll consider your points, thanks.

I know I should finish this novel I'm currently writing before tackling the next one I have planned, but the temptation to drop this and switch is growing too bloody strong

>>20352045
>How did he cause it if he had no fault?

I had an entire section that was starting to explain this but felt like if was killing the momentum too much -- basically he was tricked into turning the wrong knob in the furnace room of the school's basement by a teacher that didn't like his father. This still might be interesting but I need to play around with it.

>>was poorly dressed

I should get rid of this - his cheapness and tastelessness should be obvious without needing a poor fitting suit. The father is definitely a caricature - are you familiar with Klaus Kinski?

https://youtu.be/MPKODzv1PD4

(I imagine the father looking/sounding more like the Dilbert creator but with Kinski's absurd and petty fury).

>Is he a pagan, a devout Catholic, or insane?

This is a great question but I would say mostly hysterical and imminently spiteful. He's about as "insane" as Klaus in that video- and like Kinski, very well could have been an actor or something. This scenario happens over and over again - a somewhat whimpy, gawky guy who insists that people listen to his loud rants about his personal problems or family life. I just find it very funny. Duly noted on all caps - but why? I intuitively get it because I was unsure about using them as I was writing (and have only used them in one other piece)

>Nice bit with the priest but entered what chamber? The confessional? A good Catholic boy would know the words of his faith, and his author should know them too.

You got me there. I even went to Catholic school for two years...

>I realize this happens in America, but 4 days isn't soon.

Duly noted and lol'd

>Nice little start, and not the work of a beginner.

Ty anon, your criticisms/insights have been tremendously helpful

>There's a nagging need to sound clever that I think you can grow out of with practice.

I almost see it as a voice I kind of need to grow out of - it's almost a farcical Weird Horror thing. I'm glad to hear the tone isn't totally insufferable but as you said, practice could get me to the sweet spot.

>Good job, all in all,

Much thanks again, anon. You've given me a ton to chew on.

>now stop with the exercises and show me something you actually worked on for more than twenty minutes. You have talent, but you need to put in work.

I've got a specific longer/polished piece that I'd like to hear your thoughts on. Will post once I get back home.

>>20352201

Kek

>>20352392

How much more do you have to write?

amazing that I thought my novel was doing shit when it actually was doing pretty good!

>>20352399
>How much more do you have to write?
a little under half

>>20352460

Do you have it all planned out?

I've written about 400 pages of a novel and I love it but it's a complete shaggy dog and needs about 5 more drafts to not be embarrassing nonsense.

I would say switch to the other thing ASAP if you're eager - I'm pretty much working on ten different things right now. Maybe it's just me but I find it pretty easy to let something sit for a while and pick up later.

>>20350182
>>20349474

Another fragment I plan on working on a bit tonight.

>>20350152
Thank you anon

I find it grindingly difficult to design stories that are compelling and make internal sense. I can write on the micro level, sentences, paragraphs, whatever, but whenever I try to pants my way straight through a whole story I run out of steam unless it's only five pages long. So it seems like a heavy outline is the only choice for making longer works. But when I'm just looking at a list of scenes, it all seems so inert, like nothing is motivated right or nothing comes together into an interesting whole. I dunno why it's so hard. I'm probably retarded. Pic unrelated

>>20348544
Just read the new chapter.
Excellent work as always!
I can't wait to have a paper version of this on my bookshelf.
Glad to see a few other anons have discovered it too.

>start reading Anna Karenina
>instantly realize this complex interplay of characters is what I love so much about writing
Epiphanybros, who up? Click like

>>20349172
>>20349776
>>20349795
>>20349866
seethe

>>20349964
Weir already got noticed.
Now he can write whatever he wants, and it'll sell, because of the "halo effect".
I hope to get there myself.

>>20350558
>last self published book you read
Son Of The Sun
Salvation On Peril Island

>>20350650
based mom

>>20351540
Google your names; make sure they're obscure enough to use.

>>20352392
Write what you feel like.
Don't get in the way of your muse.
You may not want to write the second book this strongly again.
Both will get finished in due time.

>>20352935
>I can't wait to have a paper version of this on my bookshelf.
Y-You too

Damn Anon, you're making me emotional. And I'm only just getting started with the world and the characters. I have some really ambitious ideas, I don't want my reach to exceed my grasp with the scope and scale of what I want the character to get caught up in, but I do think the idea I have is pretty clever and fits really neatly. Thank you for the kind words, I will finish this, even if it's only for you Anon.

>>20353081
Sounds like you have at least 3 anons!
And if you're getting a good response on this shitstorm of a thread...that's gotta be a good sign for when it hits the real world.

Planning vs not Planning
which is the true way to write?

>>20353144
>>20353081
Alright faggots, take it easy. The ice on my heart may melt.

>>20353144
I suppose you won't mind if I ask for some feedback then, would you?

Does the tone in the first few chapters capture the themes properly? I want that leg of the story to feel a bit jarring and absurd, but also a bit slimy. I want to immerse the reader in the sensation of being caked with sweat in this otherworldly holding cell where you're having your most private sins spelled out for you by figures of authorities (plus a smokeshow secretary), and all of the shame and embarrassment that comes with that. I also don't want to cheapen or undersell the significance of the decision the protagonist is making and what the implications of that are.

Part of me is considering having the protagonist marched outside to see with their own two eyes what should befall them should they refuse. Part of me likes it the way it is though.

>>20353225
If you want in-depth feedback like that, I may have to read it over from the beginning.
I don't know if I'll have time/energy/brainpower during the week, but I'll try.
The weekend is more likely.
But off the top of my head...yeah, the beginning was epic.
As far as the significance of the decision...if the protag said no, he'd just end up as one of the downtrodden scraping by, or was there something worse?
If it's the former, I was assuming that eventually you'd explain what was so bad about Hell that becoming one of the downtrodden was so horrifying, and was waiting for that to be revealed.

>>20353216
I know, I know.
But a lot of writing gets posted here, and most of it is midwit crap.
Hell-Anon's doing something I like.
So don't worry...it probably won't happen again. LOL

Right now an event similar to the crisis of the 17th century is occurring. The king of O'eda Grion of Soorina Hasov has plans to send an army to their lands in the Ingomet of Algio. There are rumors circulating in the Algian court that the minister of war has plans to reconquer the land as a means of raising revenue to prevent the barbarians (the Frooqie) to the west from raiding. In the east, the Cathrian Empire is experiencing internal turmoil as after a long line of kings acting more as puppets of the nobles as well as the Tumol mercenaries being very fond of choosing their very own king the empire is beginning to feel civil strife. Ultimately the empire will fall at the end of the century due to Tumol uprisings because of a lack of pay, a Veranian invasion into their heartland, and the people viewing themselves less as Cathrian and more of their own ethnic group

>>20353296
Sounds fucking gay

>>20353296
Just get back to finishing Game Of Thrones, George.

>>20353172
Let the story come organically, and then chart it out once written and redraft it over and over until it's perfect. Going in cold turkey, at least have a vague idea of where to take the story. I prefer to plan scenes that I daydream and locate spots to throw them in. For example, I got inspired by a picture I saw today so I drafted a small scene about a son wanting his father's attention but being left in the shadow of his glory instead.

Hello frens. Need some feedback on this story I'm writing. This is how it starts.


In the spring of my life that lasted not as long as I had dreamed it would, I met a woman one unusually cold day that seedy bar one frequents when one wants a taste of debauchery. It lay in the outskirts of that great city we all lived in at the time. The air there was always thick with cigarette smoke and windows shut out the outside world. The bar manager was a close friend and did not seem to mind late payments, which partly contributed to my reporting his establishment as "Fine" and "elegant" and "the best on Earth" to all potential customers. This did not really matter however. The bar was overcrowded with people on most nights, and with that much activity, fights were inevitable. I witnessed a few myself. Mostly drags between long time alcoholics and some new patron who happened to be especially rowdy that night. My friend, the manager, never interfered. He believed it was necessary to teach the rules to these new folks if they were to become regulars. If they couldn't handle it, well, he had enough customers. This is mere speculation on my part, of course, but not one founded upon anything but logic.

>>20353172
Whichever works for you, at the moment.
There is no One True Way.
The only rule is, listen to your muse, and do what it wants.

>>20353481
*in that seedy bar

Mb

>>20353172
All the best writers didn’t plan things out.

Are comic book morals genuine morals or just too retardedly simplistic for thinking adults?

>>20353565
Morals are simple, it's only attempts at rationalization that makes them complex

Anyone know how Amazon's algorithm work? I just tossed my book onto the free KDP Kindle Unlimited thing, and the past 2 days I suddenly got 5 sales. How do they determine who sees the suggestion?

>>20353565
Comic book morals are dictated by capitalism: the hero cannot kill the villain because the villain is popular and makes the comic book company money.

>>20353582
Ah right, I forgot I downloaded this last week. I should probably read it.

>>20344778
Fuck being a social recluse. I don't have enough experiences to write plot, characters, or dialogue that don't sound undeniably autistic.

>>20353822
Autistic in structure or in content?

>>20353822
Read more books to fill in the gaps. Get ideas for characterisation from those.

It was a chance meeting on a film-set. “Film-set” is pretty generous. There’s never enough money for indie work and what the meager budget could swing resembled something more similar to a blue collar neighborhood drama club’s backdrop than what the average imagination conjures when picturing a set. Pay for the day included a “the experience” and a Wendy’s 4 for 4.