/lit/ - Literature

Slave hands wrote this

>>20327946
You are delusional

The only reason to browse /lit/ in 2022 is for those rare moments when you've just been reading an author and experiencing his thought like the fully three-dimensional geography of an interesting country, and someone posts a low effort thread about that very author while probably not even having read him, and for just a moment you can juxtapose the depth of your own experience with his shitbrain nothingthoughts, and realize by the disparity just how far you've removed yourself from the primordial slime

>>20327976
I have read Nietzsche, though. Also, not an argument. Go back deluding yourself

>>20327939
I'd ask you how he misunderstood Plato, but you'll either disregard me or give me some batshit Christcuck-tier nonsense as a reply.

>>20327939
>>advocates for perspectivism while claiming to not be a nihilist
The funny thing is you yourself reveal how severely low your level of understanding of Nietzche, Plato, or anything really is with this statement. The two are not mutually exclusive despite the retard axioms of your retard world, retard.

Notice how every Neechfag always claims that the critic just ‘misunderstands’ Nietzsche, and tries to pretend that his infantile rhetoric is actually ‘deep’ or ‘profound’, before going to spam ‘slave’, ‘last man’ or ‘Christcuck’ until the thread dies. Ironically their beloved ‘Übermensch’ philosopher was a mentally-ill, unhealthy and ressentiment-filled incel with a brain tumor who was the furthest one could be from his LARP

>>20328177
>Christcuck
Obsessed. Or do you think plato was a christian? N's claim of Socrates hating life is completely baseless. It doesn't really help that N has no coherent theory of reality despite accusing others of being out of touch with reality. His unholistic worldview that living a good life means denying your inherent faculties is no less than life-denial.

>another thread for people who haven't read N to debate people who didn't understand him about whether it is based and redpilled to agree with him or not

>>20328186
Did nieyzsche not advocqte for perspectivism? What am I misunderstanding?

>>20328197
>mentally-ill, unhealthy and ressentiment-filled incel
Sounds like Paul, the founder of Christianity

>>20328197
rent free

>>20328205
I genuinely want to have a discussion about his validity as a philosopher but everyone just shirks away in fear claiming I never read him.

>>20328211
Sure, and Nietszche. More obsessed with ending suffering than any christling.

>>20328197
>infantile rhetoric is actually ‘deep’ or ‘profound’
> mentally-ill, unhealthy and ressentiment-filled
Found the real Nietzsche reader. He just described Christianity

>>20328222
lmao Nietzsche was literally a celebrity who lived in brothels for half his life

>>20328215
Not true, you start off by impishly declaring he is a nihilist and that he wants people to delude themselves

>>20328222
>obsessed with ending suffering
Did we read the same author?

>>20328203
>Or do you think plato was a christian?
I think Christians like to claim Plato all the time and pretend to not be Christians to seem more credible.

>>20328236
I only echoed the worthy opinion of Heidegger.

>>20328238
"Meaningless suffering" its no wonder why some people consider him a radical christian
>>20328244
Then you might be schizophrenic.

>>20328252
t. a Christian until proven otherwise (with an explanation on how Nietzsche "misunderstood" Plato)

>>20327976
Ive read Nietzsche too and he is right. Something being fancy can't hide fundamental issues beneath the facade. Also perspectivism is self-refuting

>>20328247
>oh no, it's not my opinion and I won't elaborate further—it's the worthy opinion of another writer
So, as I said >>20328205

>>20328252
Wtf are you on about. Read The Gay Science. Specially the amor fati part. Nietzsche has no intention of ending suffering. He sees it as a something necessary and something we must face if we want to be happy

>>20328263
Nietzschean perspectivism is not self-refuting, but the libtarded version of it certainly is.

>>20328260
t. a schizo until he's consumed his meds.

Plato knew that the only way to understand the world is through abstractions. He did not think the material world was fake, only that it was an imperfect imitation of the forms because the material world is subhect to change/flux whereas the forms are eternally unchanging. That was his epistemology. Nietzsche just accused socrates of hating life because he eisegesised his last words to mean "death is a cure" and "duh, socrates diddled plato lol"
There is really no substance to his critique of Plato.

>>20328275
Ive recently taken a shallow dive into existentialism and embracing suffering as fundamental to the human condition sounds like a common theme. Is this born out of anti rationalist philosophy sucking the life out of everything? But why focus on suffering rather than something like joy? Is anyone able to guide me in starting with existentialism?

>>20328238
Nietzsche is so obsessed by suffering that he devises an incredibly elaborate and highly obscure (sadly still incorrect) worldview in order to "affirm" suffering. He was quite literally insane and likely suffering from both narcissism and an unhealthy inferiority complex in relation to Wagner. Whatever insights exist in him, occur accidentally as a byproduct of his cope. As a philosopher, he is largely a historical peculiarity, insofar that his philosophy has way less value than his critique and personality as a moment in historical time. The offshoot of his influence is entirely historical, people comment on his occurrence to critique or develop their own thoughts, rather than try to salvage his own project, which in a vacuum is just loudly proclaimed poor philosophy.

>>20328263
>perspectivism is self-refuting
Can you explain what you mean without recourse to categorized isms as if this were some Pokemon battle where Fire beats Grass? Most people on /lit/ who bash Nietzsche are merely e-converts to the religion of the month and hate him for being an atheist. If so I would assume this "perspectivism" issue relates to that—if you are using God as your means to evaluate then there is only one true perspective so Nietzsche must be wrong for dissenting. Yet despite the adherence to a doctrine of vicious leveling, the sort of person who has retreated into theology in a post-Nietzsche world is probably hostile to the cultural outcome this leveling has given us, and in a rather cargo-cultish manner, assumes that Christianity will undo its fruits. So do elaborate on what you mean, for I would very much prefer Nietzsche were wrong myself.

>>20328289
>Nietzsche just
Nietzsche didn't "just" anything, retard. His criticism of Socrates can't be summarized in one book, much less in one sentence.

>>20328294
>[devises] worldview in order to "affirm" suffering
This is every worldview. This is why you haven't killed yourself. There is some reason you value your life above whatever pains it necessarily and inevitably brings.

>>20328270
Nietzsche ultimately reduces being to nothing. Life has no meaning.

>>20328211
The founder of Christianity was Jesus. Christianity existed before Paul.

>>20328293
>But why focus on suffering rather than something like joy?
It's not like "focus on suffering" . It's rather "learning to suffer" and "enjoying suffering". What I get from it is two things: First, be ambitous, ambitous people suffer and constantly seek for suffering cause that's how one creates values, by destroying others. Second, we all suffer so instead of trying to run away from it like christcucks do, we must face it.

>>20328309
You only feel this way about him because you are a weakling / slave moralist.

>>20328302
It can because it is without any substance. He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions.

>>20328285
Nietzsche is self-refuting par excellence, his entire thought is littered with "and this is why this is wrong, except this time when I do it". He does not want to engage in metaphysics or consistency, so he intentionally hides himself behind rhetoric, delivering his poison hidden in poetic incantations instead of stated openly. He does basically everything he accuses others of doing. Moreover, it is a pointless debate because he has schooled his followers that every critique of his proclamations is just more evidence that he is right and like Pavlov dogs they are trained to shout "slave morality, anti-life, last man" everytime their master is proven to be wrong. Every Nietzsche thread on here is proof of this.

>>20328317
How so?

>>20328316
Sounds like masochism. Or redundant.

>>20328301
If nobody has access to universal truth, then we have no reason to believe perspectivism itself is true.

>>20328294
>He was quite literally insane and likely suffering from both narcissism and an unhealthy inferiority complex in relation to Wagner

>>20328318
>He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions

>>20328322
>his entire thought is littered with "and this is why this is wrong, except this time when I do it"

Brainlets, or perhaps just one brainlet.

>>20328316
>run away from it like christcucks do, we must face it.
Shirley, Kirkegaard was the father of existentialism and embraced suffering, no? Or is what you're explaining to me exclusively Nietzsche's existentialism?

>>20328309
>Nietzsche ultimately reduces being to nothing. Life has no meaning.
This is literally the opposite of what Nietzsche is trying to point out, you retard. Yes, there's some nihilism to Nietzsche's thought like the lack of truth or joy through pain. But, what he wants you to do is to wake the fuck up and stop living a conservative life style, like Socrates or Christianity imposed. Try dangerous things, get out of your comfort zone, live life, affirm life. Find the meaning on life by living, not by self conserving.

>>20328309
Not true. If you think the death of God makes life meaningless it is because you are a nihilist pretending to believe in God. You are affirming the negation of life and of nature (this is nihilism and world-denial), or the 'divine' (this is the cope). Thus you negate whoever affirms life and nature (to the negation of the divine), because you are interested in defending the denial of the world. So Nietzsche is negating the negation as an affirmation, and you are just negating affirmation by upholding the priestly escapism that is divinity. And that is the most nihilistic position

>>20328335
>>He augured in Socrates his preconcieved notions
He did. He just used flowery prose to call him anti-life withput any reasonings.

>>20328332
>then we have no reason to believe perspectivism itself is true
Incorrect. In Nietzschean perspectivism, truth is superseded by power. Power becomes the function by which perspectives are made unequal again in Nietzsche's philosophy. If you think the absence of universal truth renders his perspectivism a self-refuting notion then you have only grasped his perspectivism in light of the value structure that he thoroughly repudiated.

>>20328332
Why are you assuming there is an accessible universal truth while saying the individual perspectives we have are invalid? How would we ever access it?

>>20328340
What does it mean to live a good life? Maybe start with plato. Don't know what the fuck you mean by self-conserving.

>>20328340
What Nietzsche wants is kind of irrelevant in relation to what his philosophy collapses into. People who read Nietzsche as a self help author shouldn't be allowed to have philosophical discussions.

>>20328344
>withput any reasonings
Socrates himself admitted it.

>>20328341
This is pure nonsense. I did not mention the death of god. Nietzsche affirms that life ultimately has no meaning. He is a nihilist. He even calls himself a nihilist numerous times

>>20327939
BASED. Neetfags coping.

>>20328355
How so?

>>20328351
I'm a dumb ESL so I was trying to say something related to conservation.
>>20328352
His philosophy collapses in a world where there are literal slaves and masters. Most /lit/ users wouldn't even have access to education in a Nietzschean world. So it's quite irrelevant cause that shit's never happening.

>>20328211
You realize you can criticize Nietzsche without being a Christian?

>>20328341
Nietzsche debases man from a being with God-given rationality into a mere animal. For him, man's natural thought processes that turn him to God as the teleological end of his destiny are a very big problem. In order to deify man in place of God, he has to debase him into something less and then invert the order in order to call this debased creature as something more than what this creature is already naturally predisposed to, that is thinking and ultimately, by grace, finding God. He is just a boring radical humanist.

>>20328360
His last words were "Crito, we owe a cock to Asclepius; pay it and don't forget." It means he was thankful to the god of medicine for relieving him of the illness of life.

>>20328356
>He is a nihilist. He even calls himself a nihilist numerous times
Literally where? I've read his major works and he's never done that. Am I missing something? He goes against nihilism. What might or might not be nihilism it's up to interpretation. But Nietzsche considers his thought to be the one that brings most meaning to life. It's got nothing to do with nihilism, you retard. That's just your take on it

>>20328368
That Nietzsche's retarded reading of the quote I was talking about. Completely baseless.

>>20328361
>His philosophy collapses in a world where there are literal slaves and masters
Sound kinda similar to Marx &/ Hegel...

>>20328371
>Completely baseless
Read the fucking line. The meaning is transparent unless you're a moron.

>>20328370
He refers to himself as an active nihilsit. I forget where

>>20328356
>life ultimately has no meaning
You got filtered. Probably missed the whole bit about evaluation, eternal return, etc. That's okay I know /lit/ can't handle "esotericism" unless a French theosophist spoonfeeds them indology
>>20328364
You can but all I am seeing is a dishonestly hostile reading of him which is typical of a certain sort of critic
>>20328366
Nietzsche is hardly a humanist. Humanism is just godless Christianity. All the slavishness none of the soteriology. Consider reading the material and engaging with it instead of giving us your testimony of how much you believe in God's grace and that because of that Nietzsche must be wrong about x y z

>>20328375
No it isn't. There is nothing that indicates Socrates hated life or anything. It's more of an ironic statemrnt of piety since he's being accused of impiety

>>20328370
I guess my take is just better then. After all, Nietzsche never gave any reasoning for his beliefs.

>>20328366
Your interpretation makes sense within the value structure of Socratic rationality, but not within the value structure of Nietzschean perspectivism. The former renders man as a surrogate for God's will, the latter as a rising animal with the power to create beyond itself.

>>20328395
>It's more of an ironic statemrnt of piety since he's being accused of impiety
He was clearly doing both at the same time. His "piety" was an insult to genuine Greek piety.

>>20328387
What does the reevaluation and eternal return have to do with the meaning of life and being?

>>20328415
>His "piety" was an insult to genuine Greek piety.
How so?

>>20328415
>The former renders man as a surrogate for God's will
Absolute retard. Also, Socrates was not making a value system.

>>20328426
Greeks revered life and their celebration of beauty and the Dionysian was a testament to that. Socrates was a slanderer of both to his dying breath. "I am going to die — thank the god of medicine for that!" is what he said to those who aren't retarded.

>>20328437
>Socrates was a slanderer of both to his dying breath
You are beyond retarded if you believe that. You haven't even read plato and his thoughts about beauty.
>"I am going to die — thank the god of medicine for that!"
This is what retards actually believe.

>>20328443
>You haven't even read plato and his thoughts about beauty.
I'm not talking about Plato, I'm talking about Socrates.

>This is what retards actually believe.
It's also what people who can read know since it's the message of his last words. "See, I can be pious too, you're all wrong — I worship the god of medicine for being sentenced to death." He hated the Greeks and the Dionysian. He hated life.

Nietzsche denied life. To him, you must live an unholistic life of mindlessness and delusion in order to be happy. You must deny your mental faculties because reason bad.

>>20328453
samefag

>>20328434
>Also, Socrates was not making a value system
A philosophy is a value system. You're saying he wasn't a philosopher then.

>>20328452
>I'm not talking about Plato, I'm talking about Socrates.
Who the fuck do you think wrote Socrates' dialogues you mental midget? You are delusional

>>20328420
Nietzsche upholds what is essentially the law of karmic cause-and-effect as a kind of categorical imperative—to live as if one's actions were undying and one would have to bear them again and again. And to do this, we can not rely on values which shrink from reality and blame one's own weaknesses on other's strengths in order to imagine a divine world where the situation is reversed. Because there is no reversal. There is return

>>20328457
>Who the fuck do you think wrote Socrates' dialogues
That doesn't make Socrates and Plato the same person.

>>20328456
>A philosophy is a value system.
No. Philosophy is a study of the nature of reality. The whole "my philosophy is..." shit is modern drivel. You haven't read Plato

>>20328463
I've read Plato and I reject him in favor of Protagoras and the Sophists in general. There is no study of nature that isn't someone's interpretation.

>>20328462
Practically it does. You say that Socrates hated beauty I tell you to read Plato's writing on the subject and you out yourself as philosophically illiterate by saying "I'm talking about socrates"
All of socrates' dialogues were written by Plato, his pubil.

>>20328211
Nietzscheans, always so resentful of people and things they don’t understand (pic related).

>>20328463
>evaluation isn't philosophy
tell me, how does the platonist intend to select from among the copy-images and decide which best represents the original? To decide which are the bad copies with no referent?

>>20328475
>All of socrates' dialogues were written by Plato
Yeah, everyone knows, idiot. That still doesn't mean Socrates and Plato are the same person.

>>20328460
>values which shrink from reality
What values? He doesn't even have a coherent theory of reality.

>>20328479
>so resentful of people and things they don’t understand
Don't you know your first commandment—to hate all that is not your God? And that Paul considered philosophy to be sinful and proud? Bow to your volcano demon

>>20328472
How can you be sure? Have you refuted Plato? Do you just not believe in objective truth?

>>20328487
Wow you really are one of these >>20328205 go read at minimum Beyond Good and Evil, Genealogy, Gay Science, Zarathustra, Anti-Christ, then have an opinion on the matter.

>>20328311
The Letters are older than the Gospels. If I had to give anyone credit, it's the chief disciple and not the dead teacher

>>20328492
>How can you be sure?
Because I am not a moron. I knew the answers before reading dozens of books of philosophy.

>>20328481
Wdym?
>>20328500
He doesn't, he rejects the metaphysical and doesn't define reality.

>>20328500
Hahhhaahahah neetfags are just as bad as Marx bros. "You clearly havent read him". Nigger you sound like a Christian preacher.

>>20328504
>because I just am OK!?!?
embarrasing

>>20328487
>What values?
The ones succinctly summarized in the Nietzschean Quartet: will to power, overman, amor fati, and eternal recurrence, none of which can be understood without the others.

>>20328506
>doesn't define reality.
Literally will to power, you retard. I'm not even gonna effort post on this one cause you probably haven't even read Nietzsche. So what's the point?

Nietzschefags will literally pull some values out of their ass to uphold whilst simultaneously believing life has no inherent meaning and claim they are not nihilists following a habit.

>>20328489
St. Paul was a greater man, made greater by God, than Nietzsche, and his followers have been seething since they realised it. Ultimately, nothing Nietzsche ever said helped anyone to do anything but seethe at better men.

>>20328512
You have an inferior mind. It's okay.

>>20328514
Are those values that shrink from reality?
>>20328519
Will to power is just psychological nonsense without any reasoning behind it's supposed existence. It's a value system because nietzsche does not believe in any defined reality
>>20328523
You can be wrong, it's ok.

>>20328538
You haven't read him. Replying to you is as pointless as this thread overall.

>>20328506
>>20328509
You can't discuss Nietzsche if you don't know what values, evaluation, etc. refer to. Most of you are on the level of "he was an atheist and they are BAD" engagement with the material, like this guy complaining of the lack of "metaphysics" which is a not as clever of a rewording of "theology" as he thinks it is.

>>20328522
>seethe at better men
Don't you have a Roman cop to beg for an execution from?

>>20328543
I have. It's pointless yes, like everything, but atleast you're satisfying your will to power lol
>>20328550
Just say "you can't discuss Nietzsche unless you agree with him. It's not hard.

>>20328552
The Roman Empire is long dead, anon, I expected a NEETshit-ean to know that at least. Though, I suppose, Nietzsche was never known for accuracy or truthfulness either. Like father, like son.

>>20328559
None of you have anything to say beyond "he didn't hold x position that I hold, what a dumbass;" it's highly tedious and yet again
>another thread for people who haven't read N to debate people who didn't understand him about whether it is based and redpilled to agree with him or not

>>20328569
I started this thread because Nietzsche's "criticism" of Plato boils down to this, only it's even more deranged.

>>20328565
Well, perhaps the suicidal spirit of early Christianity is lost on you and you prefer it for its medieval after-image of cracking skulls for the glory of kings, but know this—the denial of reality it normalized is alive and well in the nihilists we live among today for whom there is nothing to do but negate divinity and negate nature, having inherited that latter value from your priests

>>20328559
>I have
So why do you talk about him as if you haven't?

>>20328583
I'm not? It's all just interpretation isn't it?

>>20328575
Nietzsche's Plato is read as the accessory to Christianity that he had become historically—and it is consistent to reject both Christianity and the Christian Plato.

>>20328592
Interpretations are not equal within Nietzschean perspectivism. Yours doesn't get anything about him accurate.

>>20328594
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Does Nietzsche have a Plato? I'm talking about the fact he does not in the slightest have any reasoning behind his critique of Plato. Also, do you think Beauty is objective?

>>20328597
Neither did he get anything accurate about Plato. But perspectivism is meaningless either way. How can you measure the goodness of interpretations? By knowledge?

>>20328613
>Neither did he get anything accurate about Plato.
What is an example of something he got wrong?

>How can you measure the goodness of interpretations?
You mean the quality of it? You measure the interpreter within the paradigm of will to power, the overman, amor fati, and eternal recurrence.

>>20328581
>the denial of reality.

Not him, but this is something I find extremely funny on the grounds that what your position usually refers as life-denying is either a refusal to partake in the self-refuting materialism implied by your position, or worse, values not simply metaphysical but necessary in order to keep a minimum of social order and personal discipline. In reality, life-affirming ends up being an excuse to indulge in lust and all kind of self-destructive behaviour, excused with "I am just embracing life" while becoming increasingly more animalistic. What you resent is not the fact that christianity affirms eternal life, but that it doenst allow you to live like the hedonistic beast you want to live as.

>>20328581
Read into the lives of St. Paul and Nietzsche, compare and contrast: St. Paul comes out the better man. That’s all that needs to be understood to ridicule Nietzsche.

>>20328620
>What is an example of something he got wrong?
In thinking that Plato sees the world as being in stasis and unchanging even though the formal world is not the material world which is an imperfect imitation of the forms. Also, baselessly claiming he hated life.

>>20328632
Can you cite the passage you're referring to?

>>20328634
Jfc anon. I think he talked about it in human.

Stop replying to this retard. He's clearly baiting.

>>20328603
Nietzsche reads Plato exactly the same way Christians do. So he rejects the Attic Moses
>>20328621
You missed the point, which is made extremely clear in Anti-Christ. The invention of God is the negation of nature. That's where the life denial begins. All those sermons about how God's Kingdom will be the inverse of the Roman empire, where you won't be humble or meek anymore but seated at the hand of God while your earthly betters are cast into hell as far away as possible from God and deprived of eternal life—that is what Nietzsche is talking about, not about affirming materiality as ultimate truth, which is your own strawman against atheism, based on presumably your dealings with atheists who are de facto Christian heretics rather than actually engaged with questions of evaluation. These atheists merely delete God but keep Christianity and live in a world entirely devoid of any meaning, because they have agreed to the idea that God was the evaluator and allowed that office to perish rather than be worthy of it themselves.

>>20328622
>better
Oh look at you and your perspectivism! I'll need to hear it from God that Paul is superior since we've renounced that power. Never assume

>>20328632
I think Nietzsche was hostile towards the mere positing of an unchanging world at all

>>20328647
>

>>20328654
Unfortunately he never met Paul while he was capable of meeting people

>>20328640

>>20328203
His unholistic worldview that living a good life means denying your inherent faculties is no less than life-denial.
Did you typo? Nietzsche is the opposite of this statement.

>>20328565
>The Roman Empire is long dead
The Roman Empire formally died in 1806, only a couple of hundred years ago.

Too many brainlets in this shit thread. /lit/ has regressed in quality

>>20328581
>you prefer it for its medieval after-image of cracking skulls for the glory of kings
NEETzcheans always conflate specific branches of Christianity with Christianity as a whole. Do you know that Eastern Orthodox Christians and Old Catholics can read Nietzche's critique of "Christianity" and agree with it completely because what Nietzsche thought "Christianity" was only applied specifically to Liberal Lutherans of the 19th century? Do you not know that the concept of "holy war" is unique to the Catholics and all other Christians, save for some Protestants, condemn the idea that war can ever be holy?
You are so fucking retarded.

>>20328708
>NEETzcheans always conflate specific branches of Christianity with Christianity as a whole. Do you know that Eastern Orthodox Christians and Old Catholics can read Nietzche's critique of "Christianity" and agree with it completely because what Nietzsche thought "Christianity" was only applied specifically to Liberal Lutherans of the 19th century? Do you not know that the concept of "holy war" is unique to the Catholics and all other Christians, save for some Protestants, condemn the idea that war can ever be holy?
>You are so fucking retarded.
The christcuck finally revealing himself. Pathetic.

>>20328263
>Also perspectivism is self-refuting
Says you

>>20328669
>His unholistic worldview that living a good life means denying your inherent faculties is no less than life-denial.
Seems like Plato is more about harmonizing the different faculties than he is denying them. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "denial"? All life is predicated on some amount of self-denial.

>>20328708
>Orthodoxy isn't like the other Christian schools
Heard this already. You are wrong. It is just moving at a slower pace than those. Everything in them you denounce is part of the same genealogy as Orthodoxy

>>135 replies
>>17 ids

absolutely crazy, I think I need to quit here today, this place is a fucking asylum;

this is also proof that I shall never read this mustache fellow.

>>20328839
>Seems like Plato is more about harmonizing the different faculties than he is denying them
That is exactly what the greeks did. In living in harmony with nature

>>20328669
Reason is an inherent human faculty. Nietzsche wants you to suppress it as it gets in the way of delusion.

>>20327939
>reading nietzsche from a philosophical standpoint
pleb-tier. nietzsche was a shit philosopher, but as an stylist he is near unparalleled in non-fiction. the aesthetic value of his writings far outweights his philosophical shortcomings

Nito kind of contradictrf himself lots of times in his books, thats why most Nietzsche and nihilist discussion end up being complete discord
I like his arguments about morals, the rest is kind of easy to refuted by simple scientific knowlodge (yeah muhhh).

>>20329300
There's no contradictions and I've never seen someone who says this actually point to any in his writings with passages to back it.

>>20327939
Heidnigger

>>20328294
>Whatever insights exist in him, occur accidentally as a byproduct of his cope.
Im stealing this to describe literally every philosopher ever. thank you anon. Ive never seen it put better.

>>20328328
masochism in the face of inevitable pain (suffering is inevitable) sounds way better to me than endurance or denial (both of which leave you still feeling said pain) which are the answers put forth by christianity and nihilism (respectively). I think this is basically the crux of N's critiques.

>>20328328
>people that believe that "what doesnt kill you makes you stronger" and wish to be strong are masochists
what is wrong with masochism of this type?

>>20328434
socrates definitely made statements about value and in doing so created a value system. If he meant to is a different story.

>>20328211
Paul was more of an Übermensch than any Nietzchean LARPer here

>>20329999
I will grant that he actually practiced his religion instead of choosing it based on video games

>>20329999
Im not a christian and I 100% agree with this.

>>20329955
You don't overcome suffering by enjoying it. That's just dumb complacency. And who gives a fuck? Try actually explaining what a good life is

>>20329999
No he wasn't. Today he would be little more than a used car salesman — a shallow little person and peddler of bullshit who leeches off society and resents it.

Nietzsche supports the intellectual elite, those who are honest and who take their time to do things the proper way and to do harder and more ambitious things. The rabble, like Paul, are cheapskates, liars, and thieves who produce nothing of value. They are subversive parasites. Paul was not a Roman but he dressed himself in Roman clothes and language in order to subvert their culture. He was not Zarathustra's ubermensch but instead his preacher of death and tarantula.

>>20328485
Of course it does. You have no way to delineate them beyond the demarcation Plato provides.

>>20330897
you dont over come suffering is the point. suffering is part of life. if it wasnt comfort and joy would mean nothing. you can mitigate it but unless your answer is to make yourself an unfeeling character waiting for the end, when it gets good (the christian way, which doesnt work for people that dont believe in an after life) or you convince yourself you can ignore it (the only way to do this is to convince yourself nothing means anything because if it did you would have to place value in it witch requires there to be something else that is less valuable, even if that is just a lack of that thing. in other words nihilism) then there will be suffering. If the negative thing about suffering is that it is uncomfortable or complicates things I see no reason why enjoying your suffering as a means to an end (thus making it less uncomfortable. and the complicated thing really boils down to discomfort with dealing with that thing) isnt a valid solution to the problem of suffering. granted this whole argument hinges on the idea that for anything to be meaningful it needs to have an opposite to compare to. if you have anything to say about that I would love to hear it.

He’s just Schopenhauer for brainlets

>>20331442
>You have no way to delineate them
One wrote dialogues, the other is featured in them. They are delineated all the time on this basis alone.

>>20327939
Overcome nihilism?
I love nihilism. Why should anyone even attempt to overcome it?
When nothing is a should, I am independent. I make my own decisions, I consider everything, even the "absurd".
>I exist
is the only principle that I base everything on.

>>20327939
I don’t think you understand Nietzsche’s take on nihilism

>Plato: Forms are eternal because.. THEY JUST ARE OK?? LOOK AT THIS STRAIGHT LINE

Reminder he was absolutely retroactively refuted by AdT.

>>20332582
Platonists on suicide watch

>>20327976
OP is right though. Nietzsche is a seething, hypocritical retard. He never understood Christianity or platonism. Just look at how he talks about socrates in Idols.

>>20328177
At least in Idols he makes all sorts of ridiculous claims and empty attacks against Socrates. He attacks him because hes ugly (despite Nietzsche's own looks), for corrupting the youth (a- which N did so much worse, and b- which accusation was made by the ijot Athenian public,) for being idol and vain talker despite Socrates having been a war hero.

Honestly I think you have to been under some willful delusion to respect Nietzsche. Hes just a little bitch trying to cope so hard and not in a good way- in a "I'm so unique and special, you're all plebs" way.

>>20333238
>He attacks him because hes ugly
He doesn't mean literal ugly, you fucking retard. This thread is a waste of space. Why do people who have superficially read an author think they have the right to criticize it?

It is always the same shit with nietzsche brainlets even outside 4chan.
>"b-but you didn't understand him!!"
>don't explain further because he is incapable of, eternally in this state of stagnation and repetition like a lunatic fighting a imaginary war that i'm sure Nietzsche himself would feel disgust

>>20331777
Also, this.

>>20333242
Different anon here. I've never read Nietzche but I have read the Greeks. Is he calling Socrates brutish in an Aristotelian sense?

>>20333218
Isn't this just a testament that no matter your expertise, you can still make mistakes, and people will suck your dick?

>>20331392
>Paul was not a Roman
Yes he was. And he was literate when most weren't. That already makes him the intellectual elite of his times.

>>20334733
He was as Roman as a Mexican import is an American.

>>20333238
If you've read Idols and this is what you've understood, you're embarrassing yourself every second of your continued existence. KYS ASAP.

>>20333369
No anon, anon is retarded. Nietzsche's main point in that part is that Reason is for the weak and ugly, and great men essentially seduce to get what they want. He's basically a pragmatist, whatever you think of pragmatism.

>>20327939
He understood Plato.