/lit/ - Literature

Poetry is not defined purely by rhyme or by steady meter. There is no such thing as "meterless poetry." This board is horribly unread in poetry and its forms.

>>20296134
Footnotes and endnotes both have their different uses, and a good editor/author will know how to use both in one volume effectively.

>>20296134
I don't read prefaces, I only read translations, paying for overpriced books (in most cases) is a waste of time, I prefer fiction mostly only in films, that's about it.

dostoevsky is extremely tedious and his influence has largely been a disaster for fiction

>>20296134
>Post your unpopular /lit/ opinions
Western literature is overrated garbage. Orient has quite a lot of good works.

>>20296134
The Three Musketeers is shit. The main characters are unlikable doushbags.

Also

Most female authors are shit.

>>20296207
Oh yeah? Name some

>>20296176
As someone who enjoys Dosto, what aspect of it do you find tedious, and who do you think it influenced?
I know a lot of thinkers like to cite Dosto, mainly for some vague existentialist inspiration, but I don’t really see who he has influenced with his actual writing style.

>>20296867
>Most female authors are shit.
But not the Queen, surely.

>>20296134
fiction is fucking stupid and so are the people that waste their time on it. it didn't happen, so who gives a shit?

I like boring novels. There I said it.

>>20296941
>what is a roman à clef?
>what is a historical novel?
>>20296153
Not only is /lit/ horribly unread, but this board is also usually decades behind discussions in lit studies and the art scene.

>>20296941
As Aristotle said, when comparing literature to history: it concerns itself with universals of the human experience, as opposed to specific instances, and is therefore more philosophic.
Literature tells you more about people than any scientific study or war-account ever could.

>>20296925
>anti-things
Why yes I think materialism doesn't exist how could you tell?

>>20296961
are you one of those fags who thinks they're a renowned scholar on the Great Depression because you read the Great Gatsby?

>>20296961
But didn't Aristotle say something about everything having a particular quality that's independent of an object's existence or the sum of its parts?

>>20296134
As a rule footnotes are best used to expand on the content on the page while endnotes are best for sources that will be irrelevant to the vast majority and fairly easy to use for reference work when needed.

LOTR is ponderous, boring, and dull as dishwater. The movies are great.
Finnegan's Wake is a glorified shitpost.
A Seperate Peace sucks, as does The Red Badge of Courage
99.99% of poetry is garbage

>>20297017
>99.99% of poetry is garbage
tsmt

>>20296984
This is about what he says concerning poetry, not in regard to physics/metaphysics etc.

>>20297017
>A Seperate Peace sucks, as does The Red Badge of Courage

I remember reading those in high school. Forget what they were about

>>20297040
Alright. Just checking

>>20296981
No, but I bet reading confederacy of dunces would give me a pretty good handle on you.

>>20296981
>renowned scholar on the Great Depression because you read the Great Gatsby
you should read a little about both before saying such silly things

Women are unironically inferior writers and readers (and thinkers in general), and they have ruined the publishing industry with their insufferable, juvenile, retarded, hypocritical drivel.

I know we like to shitpost here but I will die on this hill.

>>20297067
this would be better if the "what men read" was all great female writers and "what women read" was male-penned trash

>>20297067
Dickinson, H.D. And Woolf alone refute this, but at least try reading Emily Brontë.
I have been in your position; don’t judge it all on Rowling and Austen.

>>20296134
Unrhymed poetry is just prose with line breaks. Even the best blank verse is just rhythmic prose, well-written prose for sure, but still fundamentally indifferentiable from prose.

>>20296153
>>20296960
Why do you have to sound so bitter? You're expecting a lot from a board you probably already knew was trash. Keep your highbrow shit in whatever academic circlejerk you frequent, you'll probably enjoy life more.

>>20297091
I've read all three of them and you're right, they were great. But an exception cannot disprove the rule. The vast, VAST majority of women writers are shit, and the same is true for the vast majority of women readers, editors, etc.

>>20297082
>great female writers

>>20297092
So poetry didn't exist until the medieval era?

>>20297137
I don't think I agree with the premise that unrhymed poetry simply didn't exist for centuries, but sure, I'll take that position if you want me to

>>20297130
Fair enough. I’m misogynistic in other ways, so I’m not going to pretend you’re satan over it.

>>20297143
If unhrymed poetry is "just prose with line breaks" then the implication is it is not poetry at all. What is it exactly then that you're trying to imply if you mean unrhymed poetry is still poetry, but it is also just prose with line breaks? That line breaking is all that is sufficient to make a poem?

>>20297160
I'll still consider it to be poetry out of courtesy, but my point is that it's not actually different from prose in any meaningful way

>>20297082
don't let your dream memes be meme dreams
>>20297123
I'm not bitter. this is an unpopular lit opinion thread, and my unpopular opinion is that /lit/ should read more literature from the past five decades and get familiar with recent literary theories. just look at these retarded post above discussing prose poetry like it's 1955.

>>20297169
I'll still consider it to be poetry
out of courtesy,
but my point is that it's not actually
different from prose
in any meaningful way

Is that a poem? And if it is, is it a good one? Are the things that make an unrhymed poem a good unrhymed poem the same things that make a good prose passage a good prose passage? Can all good prose passages be transformed into good poems with the introduction of line breaks? Can all good unrhymed poems be transformed into good prose passages by the subtraction of line breaks?

>>20297147
>I’m not going to pretend you’re satan
Which already puts you above 99% of the people willing to discuss politics or ideas in general, nowadays.

>>20296960
> discussions in lit studies and the art scene
Here’s an opinion: academic critique is a garbage field of fart huffing pseuds who’s major goal is inventing a reason for their own existence.

>>20297092
>blank verse is prose
>fundamentally indifferntiable
except for like THE FUKKIN STRICT METRE AND THE LINE LENGTH. posters like you refuse to even check the most basic wikipedia definition of the words you use.

>>20297082
>>20297067
Updated version.

>>20296134
I don't read books with endnotes. If it doesn't use footnotes, I'm not reading it. Also,
>>20297017
>Finnegan's Wake is a glorified shitpost
Total agreement. Most "literature" since the late 19th century also qualifies as glorified shitposts.
>>20297092
Absolutely agree, poetry rhymes, prose doesn't have to (but it can).

>>20297233
most of it yes. but not everything since 1970. being mistaken and elitist is just as bad as being ignorant and snobby.

>>20296950
what's the best boring novel?

>>20296134
Women should be barred from the workforce.

>>20296134
If a poem's meter isn't readily apparent, is it even worth scanning? The experience of trying to figure out some poem's underlying structure just to be able to understand how a random substitution or stress is "meaningful" is beyond tedious. Like even if you figured all of that out, the chances of someone arriving to the same conclusion as you are so slim, it's not worth putting in the extra work.

>>20296134
You should stop reading a book if it bores you and move on to the next one. Completionist attitudes contribute to the loss of joy in a hobby.

>>20297130
If you look at it that way the VAST majority of both male and female readers and authors are shit.

>>20296867
>waaah, I can't read a book unless I like the characters

>>20297067
>>20297237
fixed

>>20297739
Lmao

>>20296176
Filteref

>>20296176
Kys

>>20297739
based

>>20296176
dosto is YA

>>20296176
this but tolstoy

>>20297577
The usual retarded reply. Yes, the majority of both sexes are trash, but the virtual totality of good authors are men. This suggests that if 90% of male authors are trash, then 99.9% of female authors are trash. The difference is considerable enough that if you made a list of the best 100 authors (past or contemporary), you'd end up with 95 of them being men.

Men and women are not at the same level here. It's like in chess: you can correctly say that in both sexes, the majority sucks. That's true. But the top 100 players are what? 98 men? 99? Clearly, women are inferior. The same is true for literature.

>>20297739
So fucking chaddish my God take me now.

>>20296896
Not him but Dostoevsky is 99% backstories and segues that are completely unrelated to the plot. He can't mention a random guy without devoting 10 pages talking about how one time that guy's wife's brother was the village retard and did something. I can't fucking stand it. I just want to know what happens in the story, not waste my time reading biographies of random fake villagers

>>20297934
>reading only because you want to follow the plot as quickly as possible
Anon, those "detours" are the meat of a good book. If you only want to know what happens like an 8 year old child on a sugar rush, read the plot of the book on Wikipedia.

>>20297951
You're implying it has something to do with attention span, that's not what it is. It's a matter of staying on topic. I can name plenty of good books that stay on topic, all of McCarthy for instance.

>>20297974
Look, some authors craft books by expanding horizontally. If you don't like it and prefer a more streamlined outline, change author, but don't act as if the first kind is worse than the other.

>>20297989
The question was "what aspect do I find tedious" not "do I think Dostoevsky is objectively bad"

>>20298001
You have to post only popular opinions in this unpopular opionions thread.

>>20296134
There's no point in keeping books after I've read them because I'm never going to read them again. I like to throw finished books out the window because I find it really funny.

>>20298050
>not re-reading good books every few years because as you age you find different meanings in them
Based retard.

The hobbit movies are way better than the book aside from the spider chapter it was boring as fuck

>>20296134
Rupi Kaur is not that bad

>>20298050
You're like that schizo from Silver Linings Playbook

>>20298072
Rupi go and stay go.

>>20298050
huh, so that's why i saw this lying out in the street....

>>20298129
>the pleasure of a lifestyle which involves insane amounts of STDs, anal fissures, anal prolapses, drugs and AIDS.

>>20296134
I never read introductions, forewords, prefaces, afterwords, appendices, translator's notes, etc.

I don't give 1 single fuck.

>>20298202
i thought everyone did this. i just want the story, not the quick rundown. i don't want my expectations to be tampered with.

>>20298062
I don't watch movies twice either

>>20298221
What about music? Do you ever listen to the same song twice?

>>20296134
notes of any sort should be banned. they have their uses but most of the time they're just distracting. no i don't give a fuck who jeremy bentham was or that he died in 1842, stop polluting my visual field and get to the point.

>>20298202
this is mandatory.

>>20296134
I partly agree. Sources should be endnotes, anything that isn't a source should be footnotes.

>>20298309
should also have added that endnotes bloat the book and distort your sense of page progression. not one soul has ever read them besides ``researchers''.

>>20298309
>>20298314
>>20298320
>>20298202
>this much plebbishness in a single thread

>>20298337
pseud

>>20298309
Note: Bentham in fact died in 1832

>>20298237
Yeah but I feel guilty about it

>>20298378
notes can contain dangerous misinformation. do not attempt to read notes without the proper credentials.

>>20298395
Never trust an editor who prints a book in a sans-serif font.

To use the "one chapter rule".
If by the time you're done with the first chapter of a book you still don't like it, then drop it. It doesn't matter if It's an essential classic.
If you're reading a play, then It's "Three scenes rule".
And if it's poetry I don't know, because I do not read poetry, I don't like it at all.

Bible language is really aggravating to read and I'm sick of every author putting it in their fucking novels.
>O thou (descriptor), (lauding/condemning clause)
>Thee
>anything with O

Kenzaburo Oe is the most modern writer Ive read who can actually write classic literature. If anyone knows anything post it.

>>20296960
>usually decades behind discussions in lit studies and the art scene
What is been discussed in lit studies and the art scene nowadays?

>>20296867
>doushbags
That's why they are likeable. Read a hero of our time.

>>20297067
>Sally Rooney
She desearves to be there.

>>20297067
>Women are unironically inferior writers and readers (and thinkers in general), and they have ruined the publishing industry with their insufferable, juvenile, retarded, hypocritical drivel.
This is true.
That's why we need woman liberation and go for equality. And not the way we are going for equality now, by sissyfication of boys, but by letting woman be men.

>>20299206
The only way to make women into men would be the way boys were made into men. Cruelty if the father and other boys, rape or sexual depravity, brutality from day one until the last. But an essential element of traditional man was the contrast and valued love of his warm loving mother with the stern love of his cold and hard father. If we turn women into men, there will be no more mothers and thus no more men again. The only way forward is back. As only Spartan women can make Spartan men, so it is also for every other kind of man, occidental or oriental. A world without women will also be a world without men.

>>20298395
>notes can contain dangerous misinformation. do not attempt to read notes without the proper credentials.
The bible that all the bible salesman gave away free, The Scofield Reference Bible is full of insane notes. It popularized the Dispensationalism movement, the crazy rapture Christianity that televangelists preach and the book series Left Behind explores. If you ever hear about the state of Israel being a part of bible prophecy, it's only because of the notes in the margins of the Scofield Reference Bible.

>>20296134
Poetry is boring.

>>20296925
Lmaoooo, does she not understand basic human ( and any other living being’s for that matter) instincts? They all are geared towards one very particular goal. Procreation. Passing on one‘s gene. That‘s not love, that‘s the pinnacle of selfishness. Thinking your genes are worth keeping in the gene pool for future generations.

>>20296134
Hundred times this. Fuck endnotes. I dropped many p*nguin books cos of that. Although I am not sure this is an unpopular opinion anon. Also real footnotes should be used in ereaders instead of clicking on the number and popping up a window. It’s all so fucking tiresome.

>>20296134
Neochina should NOT arrive in the future, TEDK fucked the last true anti-tech revolution via autism. Sorry frens I don't like saying it( but process cannot be stopped).

>>20296134
The only thing that matters in art is the emotion it gives you. Having ideas as your main focus is something lesser artists. Rhymimg and meter doesnt matter in poetry, only the emotional impressions of the words themselves.

>>20296160
>paying for overpriced books (in most cases) is a waste of time,
do you pay for books with time, rather than money?

>>20296925
>antithetical to capitalism because it challenges the axiom of selfishness...mothers selflessly raising children...

sounds like a midwit undergrad holy shit

>>20298320
>and distort your sense of page progression
shallow reader detected

>>20296134
Guénon was right about everything

>>20299072
You should be able to tell if an author has any talent by the end of the first paragraph

Rachel Cusk is the greatest living writer

>>20299683
why?

>>20299333
those are characters, anon

>>20299725
you are a character, anon

>>20299635
>flips pages spastically to "cross-reference"
>jumped from chapter 1 to chapter 13 because he saw it referenced in a footnote
>probably missed entire chapters
>reads and re-reads the same paragraph a dozen times, still doesn't get it
>studies one book all year, forgets most of it shortly after
the "deep reader"

>>20296134
I don’t have that problem with my kindle.

>>20297365
Moby Dick

>>20297951
Bullshit. I have the same issue with dosto as that anon. The detours are fucking insulting. Someone here once said that dosto got paid by word count and ever since this sentence echos in my mind when trying to read dosto. And then I soon drop the book because FUCK. YOU. dosto I aint wasting more time on your schemes to get more money to piss awwy gambling. What a nigger.

>>20296941
The things that make fiction good are all related to the real world. Good fiction tells you about the real world and about humans without necessarily talking about the real world or humans. What makes it engaging is how it delivers deep human truths through metaphor.
This all fiction is trash is the most brainlet take ever. Pure cringe. Did fags like you have fucked your imagination to death, its essentially what you are braging about with such faggot takes.

>>20296134
Listening to an audiobook is just as good as reading it normally, unless it’s a math textbook or something weird like vonnegut that has drawings.

>>20297365
Stoner or The Evenings

>>20297185
Tell me you are a post-something faggot without telling me

>>20300584
don't you feel like a fraud though?

stoicism and hedonism aren't all that different
especially this new wave of gen z and millennial internet stoics who jump to extremes and fetishize asceticism and pain

>>20297130
If female writers are so bad then why were all of my female classmates essays always graded higher than my essays by our Ms.Teacher.

>>20300697
Every day, but not for listening to audiobooks.

>>20297739
>industry and schools and higher education actively discriminate against boys and men
>hurrr men so stoopid dont read
>tranny niggers this ignorant raid /lit/ and create fake consensus by using popular chan phrases for their retarded brainlet cringe takes
>faggotisms

If you have to use tricks and manipulation to get your ways, all you build is standing on a foundation made of sand. You spend all this energy for absolutely nothing in the longterm. Delusional. Sad. All this life wasted.

>>20301096
da white man is like being discriminated against n shieeet
dey tryna keep us unedjumacated

>>20301117
My principal (female) sat in front of me in her office and told me no matter what I do I will never graduate her school. This was a private school my parents paid for. If I had had witnesses we would have gotten years of our money back. I had to switch schools. I was one of many that she did that to. So yes, what you said.
And by the way. If you said this shit to me irl, you would be waiting in the hospital by now. Since you think its funny to sabotage the one group that is the most productive, pays most taxes, does the most dangerous jobs, also invents everything and is the most kind and altruistic.

Tldr; Yes.

>>20301096
>>20301213
go back to /pol/ or /r9k/ or whatever palooka plantation you wandered away from, punchy. this is the literature board

>>20299630
>sounds like a midwit undergrad
You summarized her entire production.

>>20299333
She doesn't understand much about anything.

>>20299725
Those are also her real views. She clearly said so in interviews. It's hilarious that the only cope her fans have been able to find to justify her is "but she didn't really mean it, those are her characters' opinions".

>>20301275
>is unable to refute anything he said
>"go back to /pol/!!!!1!!!!2!!one!!!"

>>20301557

>>20296176
This isn’t just an unpopular opinion, it is a bad opinion.

>>20301568

Polysyndeton is being used as a cheap shortcut to "good prose"

>>20296134
Poetry and philosophy are boring to read

>>20297719
>>waaah, I can't read a book unless I like the characters
Yes, I used to think cunt characters were fun but I realised I didn't care if they lived or die, or achieved whatever pointless goal.

>>20298202
Based story enjoyer. Fuck what the author thinks

>>20297921
Even though the majority of great writers will always be men, I think it's reasonable to assume that a larger portion of women with the talent and potential to be great probably don't get the chance to cultivate their ability. I'm sure there are plenty of talented men in the same position as well, but chances are there are more woman that never realize their full potential.

>>20301956
Are people using polysyndeton instead of parataxis?

>>20302858
strictly speaking they're not mutually exclusive.

>>20302833
they wont realize their potential because they don't care enough. No one is stopping the fact that women just don't care that much about art outside of a side activity. Unless its generational learning or something and in a hundred years of womens "liberation" we'll have women artists. I dont see it happening though. There aren't women with deep enough facial creases to produce great art. They don't want to reflect in their own mind like that. I realize I sound pretentious but im not trying to be.

>>20297022
Tsmt?

Gravity's rainbow is pretentious garbage, anyone who pretends to like it is a pseud. Yes I was filtered, how can you tell

>>20303172
yeah man thats crazy haha

Shakespeare is great, but he is not the GOAT. Might not be unpopular here, but it is everywhere else in the world.

>>20303359
whos better?

>>20297046
kek

People only read philosophy so they can phrase what they already believe in a way that sounds smarter.