/lit/ - Literature

>>20286534
Three days of procrastination later and I'm starting to feel guilty. But why? I've no commitments. There's no deadline breathing down my neck. I could finish any number of projects easily enough, tomorrow or the day after at the latest.
Yet I don't. I let the work pile up. I make no commitment. I let it pile up. Dogs are barking. I let it pile up. Cranes flew over my house. Eight cranes. I let it pile up. Two swans flew over my house. I let it pile up.
Three doves and three days. Start. No, I won't. I stare out the window. The wind blows. Rain falls on the window, little drops. The drops run down the window, following curious paths. I used to stare at the windows of dad's car and follow those droplets for hours on long drives. My siblings would moan and whine, ask if we're there yet. They thought I was looking out the window. I wasn't. Just the window itself, and the water.
Tomorrow will be the fourth day of me not working. I need to give account of my conduct, if not to anyone then to myself at least. Why do I do this?
I put on rubber slippers and go check the mail. Junk mail. What else? I throw it all in the recycling bin and walk back to the house with empty hands. Junk. All junk. Maybe that's the key.
I sit down at my computer and look at all the junk they sent me. I prepare a simple e-mail message to all of them. "Thank you for your interest, but this just isn't what I'm lookin for, yours etc."
I send it in a single mass reply, then delete their junk, all of it unread. With a sigh of relief I begin to feel pride swelling up. Being a literary agent is hard and thankless work, but I just did three days' worth in less than two minutes.
I'm one of the best. Dogs are barking again. Maybe it's time for a cup of tea. All work and no play make Jack a dull boy etc.
Before I get up, another piece of junk has entered my box. It keeps piling up. But surely if it's just the one, I could read it?
Tea first. Maybe after. Maybe it will keep piling up and I won't have to deal with it.

All of this is pretty gay. Have you considered not dropping your book into the void?

>>20286719
How about writing your book first and worrying about marketing when you have a product to sell?

There’s a guy that can write 600 pages for his book but I can’t even sit myself down to get stared. I just want to try my hand at short stories but I can’t ever write my first line before I realize it’s too late in the night to get started. Why is it so hard to move ideas onto paper?

>>20286777
Because you have too many distractions. When you open your computer, do NOT open your internet browser. Don't play music. Don't open anything except your writing program. Then write. Write you fucking pussy.

>>20286777
Because you're staring at a blank page. I'm at 305k right now, I have 4 chapters to go until the final climax of the book, which will probably take another 4 chapters to do. And then I'll be done. By far the hardest chapters to do were the first several. Even though I had an idea of what I wanted to write, I was purely flying by the seat of my pants.

Writing is a skill you need to work at to get better.

Is it best to jerk off before writing a child rape scene so that you don’t get aroused?

>>20286873
It is best to not write such scenes if you‘re prone to getting aroused by it you pedo.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DRlv01MC7xhMr06IDZ-Y1BBDQkuc7cdsb34GJe5JFwU/edit?usp=sharing

We're getting there. Slowly but surely.

>>20286679
Take a cold shower.

>>20286821
I can imagine how that must feel. But you are right, we get better as we go. I'm only about 60 pages into my work right now and I'm trying to write a scene that's been in the works basically since the first few pages. I want the payoff to be perfect. (The funniest part is that I have the next three or four chapters basically already written in my head, I just need to muscle through).

Are you going to self-publish? What's your plan? And do you have anything to share? I'd love to take a look.

>>20286777
What helps me is to sort of come up with a skeleton for how I want to progress things ahead of time and then treat writing as the application of flesh and clay to those bones. Sometimes you'll even have a better idea along the way. Don't be paralyzed by inaction or the fear of being less than perfect with your efforts. There's always time to go back through.

>>20286973
>Take a cold shower.
What did he mean by this?

>>20286873
>>20286899
Why would you write such a scene unless to get aroused? "T-totally not a pedo bro, just art"

>>20286771
I admit. I get a good laugh every time somebody in social media announces "I'm going to write a novel guys!" and gets hundreds of likes and encouragement and then just shuts up for half a year and never brings it up again because turns out it was easier said than done

>>20286973
I'm currently releasing it on RR.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
The chapter I'm releasing today in a few hours is chapter 80. When I first started releasing the book last year the very beginning of this chapter was where I was in the draft. It was chapter 68 at the time and I was 200k in. I've added 12 chapters to the middle of the book during this process, most between chapter 35 and here. At this point I was stuck between finishing the book quickly in a few chapters or just letting things play out. I let things play out so I ended up putting my mc on trial for 5 chapters. My plan is finish putting this thing on RR, draft the sequel until its far enough in, and then switch this over to Kindle while releasing the sequel on RR.

I can't wait, I absolutely cannot wait, to get back to drafting. Being forced to release on a schedule is good and bad. Editing is where the book really takes shape but it definitely feels more like work than drafting. Drafting you can just kind of be as loose as you want as stuff plays out. I'm also really looking forward to it because the book is in 1st person and I'm changing the mc for the sequel. I get to shape/relearn a new (well, existing) character's personality traits and quirks, and its really fun to discover how a character works doing that. I can't wait to get back to drafting, and I can't wait to really discover her voice.

>>20287036
The point of the scene is to show how terrible an act it is and to make the reader feel repulsed by themself if it arouses them.

thinking of changing narration in my novel from first person to free indirect. i haven't made it very far, so the changes wouldn't be dramatic. i'm essentially trading a bit of immediacy for a load of freedom to develop and embellish, while still remaining stink breath-close. my main cope here is that if i can switch it up with such ease, perhaps my choice of first person wasn't that well thought out or even necessary to begin with, and the narrator (a sheltered, slow-witted neet) was increasingly clashing with my writing voice anyway. i really want to avoid the tone/style of similar-ish fare like convenience store woman, and this is my chance to escape

my only real losses at this stage will be the opening line (perhaps still salvageable), and the intimacy of calling characters "my mother" etc. i guess i also liked the idea of the finished work being something written and left behind "by" the narrator, but again it just doesn't gel with the overall character

we'll see if the patient lives

>>20287285
>to show how terrible an act it is
Like nobody gets that without a demonstration? No normal reader is going to read it far enough to get repulsed

>>20287076
Are you earning any income from publishing your work there? Or is this strictly a labor of love for you? I'm also surprised to see just how comprehensive and generous the feedback seems to be on that site... People are leaving multi-paragraph reviews.

>>20287036
Maybe to explain a characters trauma of sexual abuse.

>Holding stronk on 1k+ words
>tfw you nail a scene
I hope you all feel this feel

>>20287462
Reviews have guidelines that reviewers are expected to meet. If you just post "shit sucked :(" it gets deleted

>>20287520
>that feeling when it's a banger
Sweet ambrosia.

>>20287076
Question for gore-heavy content and racism as a narrative tool on RR; a large part of my story is that the MC and his people are very much ethnoationalistic and thus consider anyone who isn't one of them a subhuman. Granted, it is a fantasy so the 'others' aren't actually human, but my point still stands. My question is, how likely are people to freak out at finding this out since its supposed to be revealed ~10 chapters in, and how badly will they react to scenes of rape, extreme cruelty and gore?

>>20287462
Right now, no. I always viewed the monetary end of this whole book publishing thing to be a mutliyear endeavor. Basically build my audience by using RR as betareaders and also as an opportunity to edit. Move the first book over to kindle to monetize while releasing the 2nd on RR, maybe even start a patreon at that point and have it sitting off to the side. I initially wrote the book because I wanted to entertain myself, and it was tremendously to fun write it. So then I wanted to share it with people.

The way to make money after that, I figure, is by creating little stories, maybe 50-75k each, contained in the universe I built. Put those out on Kindle and use each new work as a marketing opportunity for the ones that have already been written. But the main reason I'm writing is because I enjoy what I've been creating, and if I make some money from it at some point that'll be a good thing, too.

>>20287834
Pretty poorly. Is this something you want your protagonist to grow out of, or is that just gonna be the 'thing' the whole way? Either way, you'll probably want the initial encounters with the others to be with the others being somebody your protag is justified in slaughtering. The rape is probably a bit much overall though, unless it's just alluded to as a thing.

>>20287846
It's a 'thing' the whole way. I do intend on making it 'somewhat' justified, but a large part of the story is that the protag and his fellows are supposed to be seen as the boogeymen of the universe; raiders, pillagers and conquerors. The intention is to show how the protag's culture sees such things as morally justifiable and commendable, but pretty much everyone else is piss scared of them, and with good reason. It's kinda supposed to be the story from the perspetive of the 'bad guy', but calling them that is way too black and white.

>>20287877
Then that'll be a hard sell. You can have ruthless protagonists easily enough, but protagonists who're so blatantly in the 'wrong' are rough to make work. Having a protagonist be part of such an ethnonationalist group and only generally agreeing with it due to a lack of outside knowledge or arguments can work, but that'd require the protagonist growing out of it most likely. Villainous protagonists tend to need to be somebody you can understand taking the dive into villainy, and most people won't sympathise with ethnonationalism. You can absolutely have the character be somebody shaped by, but not defined by that nation's beliefs, but again that makes him less of a bad guy.

>>20287904
I had the idea of making it a moral dilemma type of deal wherein the protag starts off as not giving a shit just like the rest of his people, but as he interacts with the 'others' more and more he reaches a point where he has a crisis of belief and starts to be a lot nicer to them. Only, his trust would end up biting him in the ass and leading to the deaths of many of his loved ones, leading the story in a full circle where their reasons for the ethnonationalism are proven to be valid, and the protag becomes a nutjob butcher, happy endings be damned. Thoughts?

>>20287967
That can work out depending on how well you write the character himself. This all said, this sounds more like a character who'd be a good antagonist, I don't really know what you get writing him as a protagonist. Hell, the prospective protagonist to his antagonist could be a person he befriends who is pushed into betraying him, leading him down that dark road. RR in general has a harder time with villain protagonists, I think. Ruthless is fine, but they have to generally be on the right side of the story. Also the whole "proving their reasons for ethnonationalism valid" stuff definitely feels like it'll be read into as you having those beliefs and that's just not something you want, regardless of your own actual beliefs. You could have him seem justified to himself, but have his unreliability at that point be clear enough that his own justifications are simply an attempt to hold the moral high ground long past the point he would have held it.

>>20287992
Yeah, that bit about how it seems like it's me just projecting my shit onto the character is definitely something I'm trying to avoid. I want him to be the protag because it's extremely fun for me to write him, and the way in which he percieves the objectively horrible things he and his mates do through the lens of it being glorious conquest. And I sort of want it to be an unabashed edgefest in the closing chapters where the protag becomes deranged. Even thinking about swapping perspectives to one of his friends who's been with him through it all, just to make it clear how even they, who never had their morality challenged, see him as having gone off the deep end. Miiiiiiiiight reconsider because it's a taaaaaaaaaaad bit of an edgelord shitfest, but I'll see. Got a long ways to go anyway.

>>20288054
The occasional outside perspective of "Holy shit this dude is absolutely fucknuts" can help. It's a tricky path. You could avoid the ethnonationalist stuff entirely and simply have him be "man who reaches out to an enemy, gets burned and goes crazy insane murderer on them" but that would weaken it somewhat.

>>20288064
I'll def have to think about certain overarching motifs like that, and I like the suggestion. It's never overt ethnonationalism, but that was the closest term I could use to describe what it's sort of like. Either way, thanks for the feedback!

You will not write.
You will slack off.
You will shitpost on 4chan.
You will brainstorm.
If you do write, it will be awful.

>>20288094
A good way to make him seem way less agreeable is to have an occasional chapter from people he's killing, especially people who're completely innoncent or some such. A perspective from somebody who's justified in being killed is usually used for "Wow the protagonist is terrifying, that's cool", but used from the perspective of somebody who's totally innocent and the protagonist has no justification for going after is "Wow the protagonist is terrifying, that's horrible". And there is a certain catharsis to watching somebody go down that awful path, though you might have to question how much is what people will actually be willing to read, because seeing an unrepentant murder-man just go nuts for a huge chunk of the story is a good way to get dull, funnily enough. That sort of thing should probably be the climax.

>>20288124

>>20288124
My bane the brainstorm.

>>20287834
I think you should just do it and don't apologize for it. You'll find an audience even if the pearl clutching twitter crowd hates it. Just make sure to make the book as fun and interesting as you can. Fuck those people.

>>20288124
>You will brainstorm
Close to heart buddy, imma go to sleep.

>>20287834
You need to show it earlier. You are giving the readers a shock, most of them don't want to read gore porn... Atleast hint it somehow.
I'll say it like this: everybody thinks they can pull off a second-act complete turn around and still be a good book but they really can't. Take a hard look at yourself and think If you can make such a turn justice.

>>20288135
That's actually a great suggestion. And yeah, I'm well aware, hence why I want him to be a murder hobo at the start, then he undergoes a crisis of belief, then he gets burned, and then he becomes murder man two electric boogaloo. Having the occasional flip-side chapter might actually be great, especially if I don't say the protag's name, just have him be a nameless terror that the 'victim' has to describe and fight. Thanks for letting me bounce ideas off of you btw, been needing a bit of feedback as of late.

>>20288168
A twist shouldn't fundamentally alter the reason the audience gets into something in the first place, is the general rule. You won't get people who like the post-twist stuff because they won't read the pre-twist, and the people who liked the pre-twist will be turned off by the post-twist changes.

>>20288171
I'm a font of ideas, some of them are sometimes even good and then I keep those to myself and don't actually write them.

>>20288168
>>20288174
Hinting at it through contextual clues in the world is definitely something I'm doing. It ain't just a hard 180. Dialogue, descriptions and worldbuilding are all geared towards making it seem like there's something off about the protag and how he sees certain stuff he comes across. Hell, I've even got a scene where he sees something 'objectively' horrible happening at the hands of one of his comrades, and he just reacts like it's a normal, everyday thing, which is kinda supposed to be the moment the reader realizes "oh shit, these guys are kinda fucked up.". Might post it here down the line but for now I'm still kinda trying to figure out how to properly arrange the whole thing so that the twist is a good payoff for all the prior buildup. Pacing's also a bitch.

>>20288199
I get people are gonna shit on me for this, but Stormlight Archive has a similar, though nowhere nearly as extreme thing going on. The majority of the main characters are from Alethkar, which is the nation basically every other nation on the continent is afraid of pissing off because they're functionally the Mongols. It actually takes a fair bit for it to really sink in that "Oh wow this country is awful", even with the protagonists being in shitty situations because of going against their country.

I want to write but have no ideas even writing prompts don’t seem to help what do I do

hello. how are u? i m fine.
i dont write, but i was thinking about maybe considering writing something someday.
does n e 1 have any tips?
i want my work 2 b as epic as lord of the rings, as timeless as crime and punishment, as influential as atlas shrugged, n as best selling as harry potter.
n mebbe a choreographed dance # in the middle. i luv dabbing.
i dont have a lot of time n motivation 4 practice, and i dont read n e thing but isekai self inserts on wattpad.
ok, i dont read them, i just kinda skim them. i get the gist.
im looking 4 a quick fix so i can skip the boring middle part w all the work n sacrifice.
if u help me, i promise 2 remember u when i become rich n famous. u can come over 2 my mansion n e time.
thank u n have a nice day.

>>20288199
Ok yeah, if you're building up that's a better way imo. Drop a hint or give clues, no matter, just don't shock the reader for purely for the sake of shock itself, unless you want to write shock fiction.
Game of thrones used shock rather well and it granted the series its infamy, maybe give him a look? If you want pure shock fiction to look at the very edge of possibilities I can recommend "perverted" shock - the books "necrophiliac" and also "ass goblins of Auschwitz". Necrophiliac is more of a perverts book than pure shock, and ass goblins try to make you puke. Ass goblins also push all the horror/disgust/pity buttons over and over, it's like a masterpiece of being over the top. Personally I couldn't read more than a few chapters.

What do you do when you really want to write a story set in a specific genre but have never read that genre, only experienced it in movies and games?

>>20288442
This may sound crazy, but you should read a book from that genre.

>>20288447
Wouldn't I simply be a ripoff artist then, easily influenced by what I read and writing a copy with a couple twists?

>>20288455
Does it matter?
My gramps wrote like 60 books and the main thing he does all day is read and research. Writing seems to be a third to a half of his time spent working.

>>20288415
>i dont write, but i was thinking about maybe considering writing something someday.
welcome home brother

>>20288455
>>20288467
Anyway you can try to write it without preresearch but then comparing it to already written work will show you other angles.

>>20286873
>>20287285
Put the pen down, Mr. Biden.

>>20288124
seethe

>>20288124
You will get your ass up and sit down at the page.
You will work hard because it is worth your time.
You will get your act together because you love the hobby.
You will seek to improve and disregard your ego.
You will write.
You will make it.

>>20288455
Read 3 books from different authors then.

>>20288442
What genre, horror?

>>20288475
Uhm ACTUALLY it was Drumlf who had accusations of pedophilia pinned on him.

>>20288485
based

Does anyone have any good resources on how to properly think out the clues and pacing for a mystery?

I have an idea of all of the different red herrings, different suspects and of course how to make the actual final criminal having an interesting motivation, but getting the right pacing and way of unraveling clues in the middle parts of the story is something I'm trying to sort out. My biggest influence right now for the "tone" of the mystery is Father Brown if that helps.

>>20288437
I've read all of GoT, so I know what you mean. The Ass Goblins thing I've only ever seen posted as a meme but since you've brought it up, I'll check it out just for fun. Love me some disgust baiting.

>>20288529
Go for it it and tell us how long you stomached it xaxa

I'm paralyzed with indecision. There are several stories I want to write, two of them being suspiciously similar in the overall theme with the only differences being relatively superficial aesthetic trappings, but I enjoy the differences and hope I could differentiate them more in writing.

>>20288674
blend it all into one giant story

>>20288500
Accusations are a dime a dozen.
There's video for Biden.

How do you guys honestly expect, (genuine question so answer it as directly as possible) your book release to go without an audience and adverts flashing your cover infront of thousands of eyes?

>>20288832
I just enjoy writing. My book doesn't need to do big numbers for me to be happy

>>20289007
Didn’t answer the question really.

>>20288832
People enjoy the book so much, it spreads by word of mouth?

>>20287315
I think it's a good move. Free indirect is really the best of both worlds

>>20288832
I'm building a readership base on RR. When it finally goes the monetization route I'm going to take advantage of them to hopefully write some preliminary reviews for me and I'm going to take advantage of free reddit shilling on the appropriate boards for the people who like the sort of book I'm putting out. Its going to be on KU so the readership base of that will also be more inclined to read it simply because it won't cost them a dime out of pocket.

I also acknowledge that Rome wasn't built in a day and people like reading book series. Each new one that comes out means more eyeballs on every single one of my books.

Just got 10 new readers for my mlp fanfic, I'm ascending to a higher plan, I hope you losers don't feel too bad

>>20289151
Zero to ten is a big percentage increase. Proud of you.

>>20288529
Then try out American Psycho. That has hardcore gore.
>>20288359
1. Real life. Got a funny interesting story? Write it down. Plenty of great authors used people and events they knew as characters.
2. Have a favourite movie/book/game/anime or whatever? Do your own version of it, take inspiration and make it your own.
3. Read a summary of a movie/book/game/anime you don't know and write a scene.
4. Go somewhere relatively quiet by yourself, like a cafe or a park sit down and think up some plots.
5. https://youtu.be/Im3JzxlatUs
You may be overthinking it. This popular song was written about the time he got carjacked.

>>20288832
its will be horrible until I release my 16th book,
after which I will start selling

>>20288832
I intend to be appreciated only after I die

Gentlemen, I want to write a good "I can fix him" story. I know women will eat that shit up. Any tips?

>>20289144
Good vision.
You’ll go places friend.

>>20289210
Or not at all. Lol, let’s be real.

>>20288832
I honestly expected to sell only 5 copies, but for some reason my book already exceeded my expectations

>>20289286
cool
do they say where the got it linked from?

>>20289251
beauty and the beast.

>>20289292
I honestly have no clue. I just can see my sales reports and got 19 paperbacks sold. So somewhere in the world 19 copies of my book are in someone's bookshelf. 21 total since I have 2 books myself with the author's copies

>>20289300
that sucks, I can understand why they wouldn't but it would be cool to see that, oh, someone clicked on my book after looking at x genre or something like that

>>20289286
I guess that many nerds want to read about themselves.
Not what I expected.

>Start writing an Oz-inspired portal fantasy
>Put it off for a while
>Isekai becomes popular so I can't finish it because people will think it's isekai bandwagon jumping
Fuck this shit and fuck weebs

>>20289286
Into the void it goes.
Why did you do it man? all those months of effort just to have 19 purchase and no eyes on your work.

>>20286719
>>20289102
>>20289405
Are you the meerkat that thinks he can turn his free ecology/philosophy/Unabomber into paid sales, but hasn't actually done a proof of concept about that?

>>20289417
That's exactly who it is. Don't forget about his Twitter follow4follow schemes. He's already lost one twitter account due to being caught in a bot banwave.

>>20289388
Thanks for your purchase anon

>>20289286
I am legitimately shocked at the number of paperback copies relative to ebooks. Congrats

>>20289425
I look forward to him telling us how well he was able to convert free readers into paid ones.
I tried to do that with a slew of short stories after I released my first novel.
One of them got upvoted over 2000 times.
Not a single sale from it.

>>20289475
I'm tracking the conversion of unique link clicks to new subscribers to my newsletter right now.
So far, the rate is between 20-25%

My estimate for newsletter subscribers (free) to book purchases is the same as paid newsletter subscribers (5-10%).
The numbers are falling in line.

>>20289502
>estimate
Not good enough.
Come back when you have hard data on free->paid conversions.
Also...how far along are you with your book (or whatever it is)?

>>20289509
Said about 2-3 threads ago, nearing the end of first edit run.
It won’t be released until my audience targets hit their numbers.

>>20289514
When do you expect to release?
i.e. when do you expect to have hard numbers on free->paid conversions?

>>20289517
Goal is 10,000 free subscribers, which will amount to 500-1000 paid subscribers, (which depending how I price it, will itself earn me $2000-6000 each month before taxes but after processing fee cuts.
Once I’m able to email 10,000 directly from my newsletter, I believe my book will have the necessary preconditions to succeed.
From there I’ll launch ads to boost the signal of what will be picked up by Amazon’s algorithm at that point.
My buddy did less than half of this effort and reached 162 best seller for a single day on Amazon. Think about what that did for his lifetime sales.

>>20289539
Tell us when it actually happens.
Until then, drop the 'tude.

If you want to give God a good laugh, tell him your plans for the future.

>>20289546
It’s happening as we speak. Lol, in less than 6 months (almost 7 now) I’m just shy of 9,000 followers on a different platform that I’m using to funnel into the newsletter.
Feel free to ignore me on my meteoric rise, but I will not answer questions once I’ve done what I said I would have all those months ago.
Perhaps on the week of release I’ll come back and publish the sales data as a told you so moment.

>>20289562
Please do.
Until then, your mouth is writing checks that your ass hasn't cashed yet.

>>20289445
I've always asked myself- why can't I read text in a JPEG format at a left tilted 45 degree angle with uneven lighting? Finally an ebook format for me!

>>20289576
Hey, it worked for Star Wars.

>>20289562
i hope you're a youtuber. those authortubers make a lot of money

>>20289539
>Goal is 10,000 free subscribers, which will amount to 500-1000 paid subscribers
Holy fuck you are retarded.
The average CTR of any advertisement through google is less than 2% for an ad on the search page. For displayed ads, banner ads for example, we're looking at about 0.3% CTR.
Do you know what the average sales conversion rate for advertisements that achieves a clickthrough is? As far as I can tell, god fucking knows. There are small scale surveys that show a sales conversion rate of about 9%, but these all seem to be done by companies attempting to sell sales parsing software so I'm dubious of even that.
Lets take that information and compare it against your numbers in the most generous way possible.
10,000 followers. We will assume each and every single one of these followers sees that you are now selling a book. Of those 10,000 followers, 200 will click on the advertisement. Of those 200 that click on your advertisement 9% will make a purchase. Your saga of retardation has amounted to a grand total of 18 sales.

What makes a good noir story?

>>20289646
10,000 subscribers where I can directly email them, not ads put up on social media.
500-1,000 of which I'll already have paying me a a monthly subscription (conversion rate straight from sub stack analytics)
So yes, I suspect nearly 80% of paid subscribers will purchase my book
Perhaps less than 10% of free subscribers will.
All the other numbers of less than 2% CTR for ads are as you say.
You really need to up your reading comprehension nigger faggot.
You're embarrassing yourself again.

>>20289660
What good ones have you read?

>>20289665
>500-1,000 of which I'll already have paying me a a monthly subscription (conversion rate straight from sub stack analytics)
Once again you've jumped to a retarded conclusion. Even the most perfectly targeted email advertisements only achieve an open rate of about 20%, that is not a click, that is an open. It is an awful misconception that email advertising is more effective because people conflate the two so often. CTR of emails is still only about 0.5-4% depending on the industry.
And once again we're back to the same dilemma: A clickthrough does not equal a sale, it equals 9% of a sale (using our generous numbers again of course). This gives you 4.5-38 sales depending on how close you are to achieving that 4% CTR. Considering that retail advertising through emails only achieves about a 0.7% CTR that seems a little hopeful.

>>20289702
I honestly haven't been properly introduced to the genre besides parody from other media that I grew up with.
But as someone who grew up with Wild West style stories I imagine they are similar in tone, where the Lawbringer starts off solving a small mystery but the results bring them down a rabbit hole of a much larger and more dangerous mystery that threatens to bring down the world around them.
But I would say that Noir differs from the Western in the sense that morality isn't black and white but a sea of grey, sure there is an ultimate evil at the end of the day but most people are just doing what they can to survive themselves.
I suppose maybe I've answered my own question in that a good Noir story requires characters that you can sympathize with, even if they do fucked up things. The vehicle in which we see these things is the Lawbringer looking to bring down someone at the top that cannot be sympathized with or redeemed, but first they must hunt down this person through a series of clues in order to achieve this.

>>20289660
I recognize that as the cover to Red Tide. Never read it (it's a bitch to find in print for some reason), but its main character is named Chandler. Can't go wrong with his namesake Raymond Chandler for noir. Find adjacent writers to him and look up film adaptations for the film noir experience. If you have the time try to get your own taste of noir without looking up definitions, it's very easy to fall into pastiche with it.

what are some good books to read for getting a sense of high adventure? currently reading Moby Dick. planning to write a high adventure story.

>>20289899
Carl Barks or Don Rosa's Duck comics.

>>20289899
Why the fuck would anyone read moby dick outside of a middle school english class?

>>20286873
Yes. Use the post-nut clarity to keep yourself disillusioned with the eroticism of it and focus

>>20290633
Because it's actually a very enjoyable experience

Found this forgotten on a notebook, some description exercise.

Equatorial sun roasts every bean. Heat is the bane of white men like me, but the niggers? Their dark varnish shines like the smoky quartz on my lady's finger, but for a much lower price. All around is the expensive jewelry of my boss: an opal mansion, adorned with dark mahogany, oversees its sibling barn as I oversee the niggers; they pick the ruby cocoa pods from the peridot flora, being just as much beauty as the rest. One particular gem sparkles the most.

At sunrise, she starts her dance. Dressed in white rags, she swings and swivels, fills her sack in record speeds; a smile on her slim face always. At noon, she wipes the diamond sweat off and brings her yield; once all the pods are counted and the slaves ranked, she stays in first place. Afternoon is when she tends to her body. I sneak her into the nearest waterfall and watch her shower; her hands slip through the curly black bush on her head, then rub every inch of her body---thin, yet thick in all the right spots. Only then is she allowed to step inside the Newmann's, for the last job of the day: housekeeping. Evening is when she returns to the quarters to rest. When the stars are out, and I get ready for bed, I see her out my window, using the last of her innocence to enjoy the view---at times like these, boss expects me to whip her back inside, but I never do.

Word has it, she will bleed in a few weeks and become a woman; only a matter of time until she stopped straddling that line. But she won't breed with the other niggers. I shall rescue her from the cycle of savagery---confect her into the sweetest chocolate man has ever tasted. I shall minnow her every trait and quirk, refine her into divine perfection---no longer just a picking slave, but a fine bride.

My mills whir, the molten brown stirs as I add my milk into the mold. Dalilah, this batch is for you.

>>20290699
>
Equatorial sun roasts every bean. Heat is the bane of white men like me, but the niggers? Their dark varnish shines like the smoky quartz on my lady's finger,

good start, captivating

Imagine a junkie. He's skinny, like he was freshly liberated from a concentration camp skinny. And dirty, hair is just a mat of tangles. Skin covered in a layer of grime. Wearing clothes that haven't been washed in years. He's leaning against the pale, bare concrete wall of the apartment he's in. He's smoking a cigarette. He's hungry, but has no money for food. The fire alarm goes off, but he's too tired to do anything about it.
The last time he ate, he'd hidden behind the curtains in a public library until it was closed, then snuck into the backroom through the hole in the machine you put your book returns in (he was indeed skinny enough to fit) and stole the cash from the register that was kept there.
This junkie has an IQ of 143. He's 26 years old. He's a Libra and his favorite song is One Night in Bangkok by Murray Head. He has never had a job and he dropped out of high school.
His life is about to change forever. But before we talk about that, let's check in on Ms. Weston. She's an old maid at 68, a busy-body and an insufferably stuck up woman. She is the person who calls 911 to alert the fire department. She rushes out of her apartment in a bathrobe, phone in hand, and rings doorbells while running downstairs and shouting FIRE, FIRE. Some open their doors and wonder what's happening. Others choose to ignore it, thinking it's a ploy of some kind, with malicious intent behind it. She leaves her own door unlocked, and thus her parakeet flies out of the apartment and into the hallway.
The day before the windows had been cleaned. The confused bird flies against a pane, suffering no serious harm but dropping a feather on the stairs. As the firemen climb up, this feather is lodged to the bottom of one of their boots. Upon their entry into the junkie's apartment the feather is freed and it falls, there to lay until the junkie picks it up, leaving him utterly confused.
The name of that junkie? Albert Einstein.

>>20289899
Treasure Island, Journey to the Center of the Earth. I didn't like 20,000 Leagues personally, but that one does exist. TinTin is a comic book if you're into that, and it is a very good comic book. I recommend Cigars of the Pharaoh, Secret of the Unicorn, and The Blue Lotus. I think Swiss Family Robinson was also good? And Robinson Crusoe too.

>>20290877
>recommending Secret of the Unicorn without adding Red Rackham's which continues the same storyline
Anon pls. Blue Lotus also wraps up the plot of Cigars.

Im doing it guys, im writing my book, starting now
It's SF, but in french tho

>>20291015
What's it about, Frenchie?

>>20291015
>but in french tho
Vomit

>>20290883
Gomen bro, you're right. And I did recommend Blue Lotus.

If I want to write a nonfiction book, how do I cite sources? I don't think academic formatting (MLA, etc.) can be used since it's not a paper. Whenever I try to Google the question, it just gives me instructions for how to cite a book as part of an academic paper.

>>20291195
You did, but you put it away from Cigars. If I was a more clever man I'd throw Haddock insults at you.

How do I portray to my reader that the narrator has a skewed perception of certain events?

>>20291504
Have somebody else's dialogue contrast heavily with the narrator's version of events, that sort of thing. It's hard to do without just using another perspective, admittedly.

For General Writing
>The Rhetoric of Fiction, Booth
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft, Burroway
>Steering the Craft, Le Guin
>The Anatomy of Story, Truby
>How Fiction Works, Wood

is it beneficial to read them in that order or is it indifferent?

>>20291665
reading about writing is not actually writing. reading all of those would be a complete waste of time. you'd be much better off reading one or two, skimming them even, and then reading four other well written fiction books by different authors with a critical eye to get a feel for how they actually construct their stories.

Better yet, write your story and then go back and edit, edit, edit.

I'm completely stuck, I want to crank out anything, anything at all to keep up at least the consistency of my productivity... but even that's impossible. No thought came to mind, sentence trails off into nothing or ended abruptly.
Today will be my first day I break my writing streak after one week. It's not the end of the world, it's just one day, but one day is enough to make the doubt starts creeping in. Makes me wonder whether all I have felt these few days are just a short burst of initial excitement, and when the actual difficult part comes - which is now, I am going to give up.
I want to go back to square one, but going back to square one will just make me spend more time on thinking rather than writing, and I have to somehow get my momentum back. I also understand deeply how bad I am at writing, and this is not a problem that can be solved today or tomorrow, which means square one or keeping up with my current story, I will crank out crap regardless.
Maybe the problem is this mentality, but how do I get rid of it? It is not as simple as saying "It's ok I know I am crap, and I'm fine with it." That is already me. But I need to accept myself - not superficially, but on a deeper level, such that even terrible writing can flow out.
Maybe setting out to write a good story was the first mistake.

Started a novel with the plan of a single perspective. Now, it’s three. This always seems to happen. I just like writing characters I think

>>20291856
that's pretty cool, anon

>>20291878
Thanks buddy. I think it might be, too, that I taught film for a long time, and I conceive of scenes through an unrestricted lens. I really admire writers who limit themselves through a single perspective though. That comes with its own set of challenges

How to not get distracted while writing?

>>20292152
Personally everything I write is first person, but I do enjoy seeing one story play out through multiple perspectives if they're interesting / unique enough

>>20292164
I've recently toyed with the idea of a story using both after reading a series (Bartimaeus) that had one character in informal first-person, and the rest in more distant, limited third-person.

>>20292172
I wrote something like this and it felt wonky, at least for me. I went back and adjusted all the first-person to third but, admittedly, something was lost on the edit. I think the story on the whole ultimately improved because of this, but there's something uniquely valuable about the intimacy of the first person.

>>20291312
Footnotes, bibliography at the end.

>>20291765
Yeah I was planning to write from the beginning but if those are the recommended books I supposed that they all were good and worth reading

>>20292159
This can get you started. If your phone is the problem, put it on the other side of the room on Do Not Disturb mode so only emergency calls will get through. I have worries about missing an emergency call since one time my mom and I almost went overseas and she didn't have her phone. This method seems to work for me.

What do you guys think of this premise?
A passionate, young man that hates authority slowly turns into a cold, old ruthless tyrant.
The story is a fantasy and takes place around the beginning of it's renaissance in a place that is comparable to the mediterranean sea.
Basically after a very destructive war in the homeland of the main character is sort of under occupation of a 'democratic' empire and at first he is brainwashed by a church that also promotes democracy, but snaps out of it after he realises just how corrupt the current government is and how oligarchic it really is and he ventures out. He's a bounty hunter that refuses to accept politics as an answer to solve issues.
However he realises that no matter how many bandits or monsters he slays, the corruption, usery and subversion keeps rising. Eventually he accepts that without power he can't affect anything.
After that he comes to realise there might be a fith column in the land that has pulled the strings in the past and is trying to control the land now.

How do I write stories featuring characters going out and interacting with other people as a colossal sperg who doesn't even talk to people on the internet much and has no frame of reference for online or offline interactions?

>>20292433
Write what your perception of normal conversation looks like, maybe it'll be funny.

>>20292417
Sounds fine, you have my permission to actually begin writing.

That gives you 1 out of the requisite 3 anonymous approvals to actually begin writing words on a page. You're well on your way!

>>20292447
I tried that, people roasted me for "unrealistic interactions"

>>20292301
First person is great for characterising one character really strongly. Third-limited does this too, but there's always that barrier. Even if the third person narration is coloured by the character it's anchored to, it always just feels a bit more cold and distant by nature.

>>20292456
hmm, sucks to hear anon. Did you tell them that it was supposed to be realistic or that it was a satire?
Did they mention why it was unrealistic?
Either way, start thinking about what the conversation will be about and how it will propell the story or show more about the character.
Keep it relatively short, that way your autism has a lesser chance of showing in text, and stick to the point. it is rather hard to have truly realistic conversations in writing. I mean it is in text after all. Maybe watch some movies with generally good dialogue and try to find out what makes it appealing.

>>20292452
>you have my permission to actually begin writing.
What would it look like if I failed the premise alone?

>>20292456
no one wants to read "realistic" interactions. that would be boring.

>>20286534
I'm feeling really autistic about POV. Is there a good guide somewhere.

I felt like I was in third person limited. But if I start the chapter with "The Blue Cafe sat at the intersection of a highway where there used to be a small town. The interstate coming through made the town irrelevant, at the junction shrank to nothing more than a gas station and the Blue Cafe." - but there's no reason for this character to know this, so am I now in 3rd omniscient?

>>20292527
Omniscient and limited aren't hardline separated, necessarily. You can drift between the two, though you'll generally want that to happen relatively frequently, otherwise it can be somewhat jarring when the perspective drifts like that. It's also not uncommon for perspective to start broad and 'zoom in' to a character.

>>20292484
Your premise is fine, but it's only a premise.
Who, exactly, is your main character at the start?
Maybe the story starts just after the war has ended and he was a low rank soldier in the losing army. And because pay isn't coming in anymore he becomes a bounty hunter. And he goes to the church because reasons. Or maybe he's an orphan from the war and that's why he's at church to begin with?
So after you figure out who your mc is you need to create the inciting incident where he realizes everything is corrupt and he needs to change his life.

Like, your premise is a premise. Stories, however, are made by characters with goals and objectives and motivations interacting with each other.

>>20292527
Yeah, you’re providing information your character doesn’t have. Also careful with your subject agreement. “At the junction shrank to nothing” is still tied to “the interstate,” so you might want to say “made the town irrelevant, which, at the junction, shrank to…”

>>20292417
Ambition premises are always good because by default you have what most meandering stories don't: a hero with clear yearnings and the drive to make it happen. It would be a clear development line: young boy is bright and naive, gets betrayed by authority and gains distrust but still wants to believe in some brand of justice and goodness, ages, becomes jaded after years of having justice and goodness lose to an uncaring world, experiences a mental or emotional or spiritual break which changes his perspective, redirects his ambition toward a new goal. I'm following a near exact line like this for my own story save for a few changes of how he redirects ambition since he begins the story as king of a nation.

>>20292484
You have my permission too anon. Congratulations. You only need one more stamp of approval to begin actually writing!

>>20292535
Just read that game of thrones is "3rd person limited omniscient" so you're right and I'm as confused as ever.
I guess from the prose side how do you add any flair or interest if you're truly limiting yourself to 3rd person's thought and experience? How do you make transitions? Does description of landscape need to be kept to what the character observes only? Etc.
>>20292557
Yeah I wrote that example on the fly so it's pretty junky, but thank you for the reminder.

>>20292614
A good way to go more flair-heavy in third-limited is to have the character get a bit lost in something, letting you go more abstract and prose-heavy. It doesn't have to be a place, it can be an action, or somebody's words, etc.

>>20292535
>It's also not uncommon for perspective to start broad and 'zoom in' to a character.
How do I best do this?

>>20292614
>how do you add any flair or interest if you're truly limiting yourself to 3rd person's thought and experience?
why shackle yourself like that? you don't. 1st person you shackle yourself to a character, but in exchange you get all sorts of narrative and character building you simply can't get in 3rd.

What are your advices for someone who has never written for artistic porpuses? I guess "write a lot" would be the top tip but I think I should get reviewed, right? Where? And probably I will need some theory too, which are your recommendations?
I'll start writing tomorrow anyways but I'm serious about it so the more information you give me the better

>>20292741
Chapter 1
>It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...
Chapter 2
>It was the Dover road that lay, on a Friday night late in November, before the first of the persons with whom this history has business. The Dover road lay, as to him, beyond the Dover mail, as it lumbered up Shooter's Hill. He walked up hill in the mire by the side of the mail, as the rest of the passengers did

>>20292747
I think you can build the character equally but it’s in a distinctly different way. It’s less direct but can, still, be very rewarding.

>>20292750
>written for artistic porpuses
STOP. Your misspelling aside, you should not be writing for artistic purposes. You are writing to tell an engaging story that may have literary and artistic merit. You are not writing for art's sake. You are writing to tell a story.

>>20292765
Based

>>20292750
If your aim is artistry, you've got to read the best artists. Whether it's prose or character or theme or plot, whatever it is, you have to go out and read the best of those masters. And then yes you follow the standard write and get critique. Theory all comes from lots of experience, figuring out what works for you and what doesn't, then applying it to your own work and hitting the ground running.
>I'll start writing tomorrow
Start today.

>>20292741
Starting a book off with a broader description, then focusing in on your perspective character and sticking with their headspace from then on.

>>20292747
Isn't 1st even more limiting? Maybe internal monologues come more easily, but you can still have those in 3rd person.

>>20292788
With first person, everything is inherently coloured by the narration's viewpoint. 3rd-limited can have that too, but the barrier that exists can make it trickier.

>>20292747
I'm doing 4 separate POVs and I feel like 1st person perspective is more difficult for the reader with multiple POVs

>>20292812
Yes but generating intimacy and building a character doesn’t only come from immersing into their perspective. They’re just different POVs with their own tools to achieve the same end.

>>20292765
>Your misspelling aside
Sorry I have dyslexia

>You are writing to tell an engaging story that may have literary and artistic merit. You are not writing for art's sake. You are writing to tell a story
Why? Sure I want to tell stories but I'm interested in what writing can offer as a communication channel too, what is wrong with that?

>>20292776
>you've got to read the best artists
I'm already doing it but for joy's sake not learning. Thank you for the insight

>get critique
By who? Maybe here? Is it better doing it irl?

>Theory all comes from lots of experience
Nice, got it

>Start today
I planned do it tomorrow because I have no time today but okay I will write a sentence or two

>>20292815
absolutely I'd agree, I'd avoid 1st person with more than even 2 perspectives, it would just be too tough. a really well done 1st person perspective will change how sentences are constructed based on who the narrator is and their emotional state. you can really give your character a voice, and you can really shape the reader experience, if its done well

>>20292847
>what is wrong with that?
you may find yourself with an audience of one

>>20292856
I don't care, I'm not seeking being an honored writer but enjoy writing, share it with other people which could be interested. If no one cares about my writing, I'll write for myself or for a beloved one. If people want to read my stuff but not hard enough for paying for it? So read it for free

>>20292847
>By who? Maybe here? Is it better doing it irl?
It's good to get anonymous critique because no one here is worried about hurting your ego. Otherwise, join a group with writers WAY above your writing grade and learn from their inputs.

>>20292847
>dyslexia
You seem more like you're ESL. You're going to be writing in your native tongue, I'd assume.

>Bench visual art for a few years to improve writing
>Writing improves, art ability is stunted
>Bench writing for a few years to improve visual art
>Art improves, writing ability is stunted
Can I ever hope to balance both or will I just be yo-yoing like this forever?

>>20293067
I had to choose which to take more seriously. I dabble in illustrations but I’ve turned my focus to writing mostly; I think my visual art could be much better with effort, I just don’t prioritize it. I’m okay with that.

>>20292873
Have you done much writing before? What do you consider artistic writing?

>>20286534
I made a thread about it, but I'll ask here as well.
Any advice on plotting a story?

>>20293153
Think on what sort of story you want to tell, and what sort of events would work in such a story. Try to create some sort of story from those events, and arrange them as needed. Starting with a premise, a general trajectory and maybe a notion of the ending is a good start.

What's the golden standard for protagonists going through character development only for it to lead them to a dark place, book, movie, whatever

>>20292417
So, Donald Trump's backstory?

I wrote this poem and now I will poorly translate it into English:
My dear beloved, with a face I forget
After this many years which I regret
Spent amongst strangers while in strange beds
I ask of you, rip my hair out, pull my eyes out of my head
Let me stare in your eyes for the first time
A thousand times over
As I've done a thousand times before
Flood your faces with kisses
As you flood mine with blood
Curse me, kill me, bury me alive
Unceremoniously and forget me
Let the townsfolk weep for me
Please my beloved
Allow me a kiss

boy does it ever suck but I feel great

>>20293247
Ah yes, Donald Trump, the famous bounty hunter

>>20292750
Wow. The difference is, I was kidding... >>20288415

>>20293159
Lawrence of Arabia

>>20293134
pyw

>>20292417
Isn't that closer to a synopsis?

How do I level up my imagination so I actually think about what I write in a story beyond smashing words onto a page?

>>20293262
Your post that you thought was a joke is one of the most unfunny things I’ve ever read on this board. If you actually do write, steer clear of comedy.

>>20293374
Do you not visualise at all?

Please enjoy a very silly poem I wrote

>YWNBAW

>>20293487
I find it ruins the spontaneity.

>>20293430
seethe

>>20293505
The tune I read this to was almost the Donkey Kong rap.

>>20293545
is this a more advanced level of npc rationalization?
are they learning?

>>20293067
Why not just make comics/graphic novels and improve both?

>>20293487
Honestly, no. Like I showed, it's a blank space, if you told me what I was trying to describe I'd draw a blank, I have the idea "I should write a story in [x genre]" but nothing really happens.

>>20293613
That's a high level skill and generally I've seen artists break into writing, but writers, unfortunately, never do the same thing.

>>20293581
It's called discovery writing. If you go in with a preconceived notion of the room then you're limiting yourself. Maybe it's an office? Maybe it's a kitchen? Maybe it begins as a rumpus room but as the scene evolves it's actually a library so your characters can use the books? Let the scene figure itself out instead of forcing things.

>>20293630
But I don't discover anything. How do I do that?

>>20293647
Maybe there's nothing to discover. If no descriptions of the room are coming to you then it's entirely possible the details of the setting don't matter. Maybe they'll be more important some other time and then you can describe what's around the characters.
I went to a writing workshop once and the woman leading it bragged about how she'd NEVER described ANY character in her books. Whatever the readers came up with would be enough.

>>20286973
Finally read the new section.
Again, not what I was expecting, so I'm eager to see where you're going with this.
I came up with a few sweeping ideas for my own diabolical novel today...who knows, I might write it next.

>>20293702
>the characters
The... characters?

>>20293723
I am hopeful that the next few sections will really start to coalesce and make sense for where I want to take the protagonist and the sort of conflicts/drama I want to create. Thank you for reading Anon.

>>20293613
I don't think the stuff I write would translate well to graphic novels, but it's an idea to keep in mind anyway. Thanks anon.

Sold a book today. It's like my fourth. Feels good to see that when it's a rough day at work.

>>20293630
discovery writing doesn't mean unable to visualize the scene. visualizing the scene helps to write further scenes. Frankly I find the idea of not visualizing things incomprehensible, which is why I asked if you were some sort of advanced level npc.

>>20293848
What's the actual order of events when you set out to write something? Do you picture something in your head and you write it? Does your writing follow after your imagination initially, and at times your writing ends up influencing your imagination on how the scene progresses?

>>20293848
>Frankly I find the idea of not visualizing things incomprehensible
Ever heard of a little thing called Aphantasia?

Here's an effort; An eldritch horror experiences pain for the first time and cannot understand what it is. I'm trying to make it's thought processes almost incomprehensible by playing with perspective/time.
>I was standing in front of this entity. He stared me down, and I will not understand why he does so.
>You shall walk forward and made this one the first of my true worshippers, that much was certain.
>But now he lunges at , rammed his arm into my chest, and a feeling spreads through your body.
> recoils, moved backwards instantly. ̶un̶d̶e̶r̶s̶t̶o̶o̶d̶ why this happens to my body.
>I am hating him. I wanted to kill him

>>20293864
I think you're making it too 'human' and you need to go over the feeling of confusion over your worshippers betrayal. Maybe that confusion is more painful than being stabbed?
You could also take reference in how insects and sea life deal with pain. Most, if not all, of them seem to react in a way that can only be described as a mild hinderance. So is your horror beginning to feel more human because it recognizes this sensation?

Where do you get your ideas? I'm stuck.

>>20293929
Giving myself alcohol poisoning and then writing down every vile thought and vision that passes through my head while I'm hallucinating.

>>20293929
read more

>>20293852
the actual order of events is me rereading a little bit to figure out how I ended up where I ended up. with that clear the actual writing and dialogue I do with very little visualization. when I hit a spot where I am unsure I try and get a handle on where things are, and then I resume. usually if I visualize when I'm writing I'm thinking about where the scene is going to end up, but the process of getting there is just making shit up

>>20293929
I always have an ear out for anything someone says that I could use as a story idea. Today we were joking around at our branch meeting that, since old pool balls were made of nitro cellulose and just combusted in heat, how funny it would be if there was someone trying to break the triangle in a game of billiards and it ends up killing everyone in the room but him. Could be a funny misunderstanding like the guy is wanted by the outlaw mafia, goes to play a billiard game while waiting his turn to pay his debts, and accidentally nukes the room full of henchmen and underbosses.

>>20293929
interact with people
read the news
read books (fiction & nonfiction)
live life

>>20293948
>with very little visualization
Can you explain further?

>>20292484
Your premise is fine, most are, but I've heard so many premises and they're frankly cheap - premises are 1/100,000th the value of 1k words of an excellently crafted prose beginning a story. If the premise interests you then it can be done well.

>>20292566
>Ambition premises are always good
I've found the opposite, but this might come down to a writing style/process thing. The more boxes I need to tick the more pressure there is to rush the story along/force character behavior - I do much better with a clearly defined beginning, middle turning point or escalation, and ideal conclusion.

>>20293630
This is not what discovery writing is.

>>20286534
Also as a general question - is it just me or has this general gotten a lot dumber in the last 2 weeks or so? I used to get a lot of neat craft talk/ideas and now several anons are shamelessly asking how to perform basic cognitive functions like "having ideas" and "visualizing"?

Warm colors, bright light. Are those the gates of heaven? In it angels reside. Beings who know not of sin yet. Children seeking guidance. A voice to follow. Someone they trust to guide them out of the darkness of their ignorance. A cold, almost lifeless soul approaches. The xarrin, or priest to the common folk, entered the large establishment through big peach-colored stone gates that arched above a wooden door. He found himself walking in a busy hall with reception desks directing the people towards their desired destinations. Being a Violet, he couldn’t see the colors surrounding him. From birth, Violets just like him are taught that colors are differences in one’s personality. States of mind and emotions. They are not mere dots and strokes on a surface. Though it may be true, he was still missing out on an incredible, vibrant sight.

How's my prose?

>>20294053
You’re just under the mistaken impression these generals were ever any good.

>>20293997
when people are talking I don't imagine two people talking. there's no need. the words of the conversation are more than enough. maybe if there is a descriptor needed, a big motion, I'll visualize that, but nothing else

>>20294079
>the words of the conversation are more than enough
But do you imagine the conversation? The voices flowing back and forth?

>>20294053
Why do you want to discourage people from reaching out?

>>20294053
>Also as a general question - is it just me or has this general gotten a lot dumber in the last 2 weeks or so? I used to get a lot of neat craft talk/ideas and now several anons are shamelessly asking how to perform basic cognitive functions like "having ideas" and "visualizing"?
I think a lot of the previous authors gave up. We haven't had a new chapter from some writers in weeks. And these guys usually post a chapter a week.

>>20294112
I don’t think they gave up. They just found better options than dealing with you assholes.

>>20294134
but where are there better assholes? reddit? random forum? wattpad?

Tehy're all equally shit

>>20294142
Keep telling yourself that.

>>20294101
when I'm in the process of writing it? like imagining their voices? almost never.

>>20294101
I'll clarify >>20294157
when I'm imagining a scene before I write it, like I'm in bed and I'm about to fall asleep and I imagine the scene it'll be visuals and voices and whatever. when I'm in the process of writing I may try to remember some of the bits and pieces but scenes are always bigger in total than what I can piece together. when actually writing I focus more on how the words look together and sound in relation to each other as far as rhyme.

>>20294145
Please tell me which site is the best so I also don't have to deal with you assholes

>>20294106
Some people need to lurk more. I guess it's mean to say but I did it and learned rather than cluttering the general with inanities.

Also I don't mind new people at all, I like it, it's just been such a sudden shift in experience level, I think it happened around that weird period of that reddit still posting pepes and awful generic advice.

>>20294053
Ebbs and flows, like anything

>>20293921
It’s not a worshipper, first of all.
But second of all, let me give a rundown of this thing. It functions on pseudo human logic in that what it wants to do kind of makes sense in a strange way, but not really.
Now, it’s backstory is kind of a doozy. Basically, something happens and a signal of unknown origin starts being broadcast through any and all radio wavelengths. And this causes this massive figure to appear and pass through people like a ghost, which makes them periodically enter a trance like state and start building weird statues out of whatever they find. Then they shove whatever device the signal “Got” them from into the thing, which then animates it. The objects then fuse into this humongous monster, who is then animated by those who didn’t snap out of it in time. They do this by tearing out their own hearts and shoving them into the monster, before turning into masses of stem cells that sort of look like trees that start “dancing” like they’re worshipping something.
Long story short, it wants to assimilate all creatures into worshippers of the stars. It worships the stars, and it doesn’t understand why anyone else won’t, so it forces them to.
It’s fucking nuts.

>>20293929
Everywhere.

>>20293929
No you're not, you're lazy and want instant gratification. Go back to writing.

>>20294134
Ah the old
>there’s a super secret site where REAL authors gather
Yeah yeah. More likely they just started to take their work more seriously and stopped posting so nobody would steal

>>20294298
Okay, but what’s the theme of this story?

>>20293820
I've sold 13 free copies just this week! WE'RE ALL GONNA MAKE IT

>>20294241
This general has always been a mess of pseuds and Boswells. It’s no worse now than it was six months ago.

>>20293067
The skills don't mesh very well. You can develop both side by side, but neither is ever going to be as good as it could be, if you focused exclusively on that, and one can't get quite as strong as the other, depending on your personal affinity. But I wouldn't recommend giving up on either, since it's nice to have something else to do on those days when you can't write/draw

>>20294613
Themes?
It depends on the character. Each character in the story covers different themes generally

Sorry but you have to do a lot of introspection, this general is cringe

the fourth video of
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTCv6n1whoI23GmdBZienRW0Q0nFCU_ay
ie Inside Creative Writing with Robert Olen Butler is missing. Does anyone know if it is avaliable somewhere else?

>>20294637
But it is better than it was a year and a half ago.

>>20294053
It's not just this board -- https://writing.stackexchange.com/ is also inundated with basic, dumb questions.
Maybe people are outside, enjoying the nice weather.

>>20295373
Great jumpin’ Jehoshaphat!

>>20294241
>>20294429
>>20294637
Maybe they received good advice, and went off to go write something, instead of lurking here?

>>20295408
Real high-level discussion

I wish I was writing right now bros.

So what's everyone REALLY up to here? Last year, I wrote an autobiographical army novel. It sucked and will never see publication.
This year I will write my second novel, about the religious experience and two men on opposite trajectories on the path of faith. It will likely also suck, but I will finish it regardless. It reached 39k words just now.

>>20295567
I'm trying to motivate myself to just write even if I don't think the writing will be very good, just to finish a story.

>>20295567
I've got a farcical comedy that needs a title. There's been some great suggestions for it so far, but I'm having trouble landing on one I like. Once that is found, it's off for cover art and book formatting, and then a self pub round.
I have a historical fiction series that I'm debating adding a fantasy element to in the vein of Gawain and the Green Knight, where it's rooted in reality but slightly twisted with the fantastical.
I'm trying to piece through ideas for a new standalone after I get my farce published. So far, none of my ideas have stuck. A coal miner who blows up his mine is the last failed idea.

>>20295567
I collected all the failed short stories I wrote. Trimmed all the shitty parts. Kept the good parts, completely destroying the context and logic in the process. Now I'm simply stitching them together. Making it seem like you're flicking through TV channels. I'm trying to find some sort of thread running through each snippet. I think the thread has something to do with fish. Up to this point, I have:
>Three nonsensical adverts to fill in the gaps. About soda, perfume and a movie.
>A press conference about some scandal. Yet you never get to know the scandal. It's just politician-speak. Dancing around the point endlessly. Saying as much as possible without saying anything.
>I added a very serious interview with a fictitious artist.
>Snippets of a story about a depressed lifeguard, aspiring zoologist, finding a living goldfish in a water-filled, plastic bag in the gutter. Weirdly reminding him of himself.

That's it. I don't know if it's too "post-modern"ish. And even though the press conference is supposed to be "boring", it may be a little bit too long. I'd also like to add a fictitious sport. Super serious narration, but extremely ridiculous made-up jargon. I think it'd be funny. I don't know yet. I'm also in doubt whether I should simply fly into channel browsing, or have some exposition so the reader knows he's "watching TV". I might very well not be the first writer to use this gimmick.

How do people write while in serious pain or on their death beds? Even on medication I can't concentrate properly for more than a moment or two. Is it really just a matter of discipline and focus?

>>20295990
I'm sure they have help and mostly dictate.

Is it cringe for a man to write about a (young girl's) period? Not in a weird sexual way, just in a "this is something that happens as she grew up" kind of way?

>>20296116
It's how Stephen King's career started.

>>20296116
It's a fundamental part of being a woman, it's a fundamental part of their lives. In a coming of age story, or seeing a girl child grow up, a matter of fact statement about her period starting I would say is essential. It's a fundamental of the transition from being a girl to a woman.

In my next book I'm going to have a conversation about it, but in the opposite direction. Due to circumstances (dietary and career based) this young woman's period has ended, and she isn't taking it very well. She feels neutered and unpersoned as a result.

How late is too late to introduce the prophecy which foretells the hero will defeat the villainous bad guy?

>>20296374
Harry Potter did it after Harry had defeated the bad guy multiple times already

>>20296374
Whenever. You even could do it as a joke after the bad guy has already been defeated. Better yet, have the villain appear to be defeated, and when news of that is spreading around the prophecy is made known and people are happy about it saying the prophecy has been fulfilled. The 'Hero' who 'killed' the villain is propped up by the kingdom, and given a title and lands and everything else in recognition of his valiant service.

>>20296116
Depends on how much you rely on stereotypes or if you have actual stories of women to inspire your writing. Most men are comically in the dark when it comes to the reality of periods.
I also think that men think this is a bigger thing for girls than it actually is. Kind of like seeing it as some unrelatable rite of passage, which it could be, but reality is that it‘s usually not that big of a deal. So, if you‘re giving it too much stage time it might make the scene/character seem unrealistic.

Would it be realistic for someone who injures their head when falling off a horse to start hallucinating and being irrational and puking a lot?

>>20296394
Seems a bit over the top. The puking might fly because of possible brain concussion.

>>20296391
>I also think that men think this is a bigger thing for girls than it actually is
It is a big deal because it is directly tied to their fertility. Most women want to have children. A lot of the female craziness we're witnessing today is a result of messages put out: oh, go to school, go out and have fun and discover yourself, get a career children can come later. And then they hit 30 and their biological clocks are ringing alarm bells and they're nuts as a result. The pill certainly hasn't helped by messing with their hormones.

>>20296412
You misunderstood me. I agree that it is a big deal. I‘m saying our society makes it so that this mile stone does not feel like a big thing anymore, for the very reasons you listed. Now it‘s not a sign of entering womanhood anymore, it‘s merely an annoyance standing in the way of girls doing everything boys can 24/7. I‘m saying that depending on the context of what you‘re writing, it would feel unrealistic if you painted it as being this grand moment for the prot, assuming your story is playing in the present time and in a western society.

>>20296412
There is a big passage of time between the start of a period - which Anon was talking about - and what you're ranting about here, which in this context isn't actually relevant.

>>20296475
The period is important because it signals fertility. Full stop.

>>20295567
>It sucked and will never see publication.
How do I learn your ways? If I don't show it to anyone, I feel like a failure. I want to be someone who accumulates cool novels that never see the light of day.

>>20296374
What's your reason for having a prophecy? How important is it to the plot?

>>20296446
>I‘m saying our society makes it so that this mile stone does not feel like a big thing anymore
I'm kind of unplugged from the collective subconscious but didn't they do a hundred million dollar Pixar movie about it the other week?

>>20296587
Yes they did but it‘s more like virtue signaling than anything else. Nobody actually want girls to become aware of the importance of their period again. They tried to get rid of that when they burned all the witches and they sure as hell don‘t want it back.

I want to write a fantasy story with magic in it, but I don't want to kill myself trying to come up with a totally unique and original magic system. What should I actually keep in mind if I want to include magic without agonizing too much over it?

>>20296609
Trust your gut. If it feels right to you, do it. If it feels wrong, change it.

>>20295567
Your army novel was like written by an autistic 8th grader and now you want to tackle religion, one of the most complicated and nuanced topics in existence? Can't fault you for the lack of ambition, at least

>>20296609
innate or not.
book learned or not.
enslaving spirits or not.
divinely bestowed or not.
>what should I keep in mind
make it fun and wonderous. that's why magic exists in stories, to inspire wonder.

>>20296609
If you’re just going to regurgitate a spell system and copy paste stupid shit like dwarves and elves you really should bother. Either do something entirely original or give up. There’s a reason fantasy is for retards.

How do I quit my job and become a destitute writer living off borrowed money in poor neighborhoods

>>20296822
First step would be quitting your job.

Anyone know any good mind-mapping software that allows you organise along an additional axis beyond the two-dimensional mind-map layout e.g. colour-coding the nodes but with more than one colour so each node can belong to multiple categories? See image if that's too wordy. I need to organise my writing ideas by 'parent' relations plus their direct connections to each other, but also by several categories of themes; some of the ideas belong to one theme, others belong to multiple themes. All the mind map freeware I can find so far either doesn't allow non-parent connections or, like Scapple (pic related), only allow the most rudimentary stylisation of each box so I can't e.g. use a gradient fill to denote the idea belonging to two different categories simultaneously by using colour.

>>20295567
25k words into my novel about being trapped in a factory

>>20295567
250k words into my novel about being trapped in a closet

>>20296881
You could try pivot tables in Excel

Another successful day of building up an audience as I write for my newsletter.
This book release will be huge.

>>20297156
At this point I am afraid you'll kys if you aren't able to sell as much as you think you will.

>>20297358
I’m just prepping.
Those who prep will pray and fail.
Those who prep do not have to hope but will succeed as they have prepped.

>>20296803
Don't worry, I killed off the dwarves

>>20297404
>Those who prep will pray and fail.
>Those who prep do not have to hope but will succeed as they have prepped.
I bet that sounded way better in your head.

>>20297660
Sounded just as I intended it. Half you niggers think the book is what sells itself.
WRONG, the quality of the book is what brings BACK readers or helps them recommend it.
The way you approach the release of your book itself by properly positioning an audience before your work is what first enables the success of it spreading.
Until your accept my truths you’ll merely release book after book to audience that barely exists.

>>20297716
And you won't release any books at all.

>>20297724
Yes I will and this fact makes you seethe every time.

>>20297716
Hasn't marketing degree anon shut you down on this exact shit multiple times now?

>>20297733
Not at all.
Marketing anon literally proved his ignorance last time when I brought up newsletter email advertising and he conflated it to either cold display advertising or cold paid search advertising.
If this is what a degree has to offer, I shudder to think what he knew before going to school.

>>20297758
I've taken marketing classes. Products should be good enough to sell themselves and as a marketer you're just putting them in front of eyes that may be willing to buy them. You claim you have your first draft written. Out of curiosity, what's the genre and can you give a general blurb. If a blurb is too much, describe the profile of a typical reader that would want to read your book.

>>20297876
>Products should be good enough to sell themselves and as a marketer you're just putting them in front of eyes that may be willing to buy them.
Show me exactly one post where I’ve ever disagreed with this.
You’re arguing with a non existent shadow schizo.

>>20297881
What's the genre and can you give a general blurb. If a blurb is too much, describe the profile of a typical reader that would want to read your book.

https://twitter.com/Tocharus
tocharus.substack.com
In case you're wondering who the marketing pseud is.

>>20297896
Where’s the part where I said you shouldn’t have a good product. If honesty is too much, describe your disagreement with my typical premise.

>>20297899
Wrong again as always, my profile is just cresting 9,000 followers. Check the last 4 threads where I mentioned this.
Maybe you’ll be right the next 5 guesses.

>>20297906
I'm skeptical that you've written anything at all. Your continued deflection isn't a good look.

>>20297899
>tocharus.substack.com
>1 (O N E) single like
>writing is shit
Why am I not surprised.

>>20297915
You’re deflecting my questions with questions. I’m not answering you until you answer me.

>>20297920
Your BOOK is the product. Your BOOK seems nonexistent. I am merely asking some general, general questions about your supposed BOOK so that I can accurately gauge whether or not you even have a product. If you don't have a BOOK collecting emails and twitter bots is a total waste of time.

I'm interested in your book and your writing. This is a writing general. Not a marketing general. Tell me about your product.

>over 10k words spent brainstorming and debating aspects of the plot and characters

>>20297931
MY BOOK seems non existent because I haven’t released it yet you mong.
Of course I don’t answer questions about the contents of my book because unlike other anons here I’m anonymous.
Now answer the question, WHAT is it you disagree with me about?

>>20297913
It's okay SineCogitare. I know you tried to hide from your past embarrassments by changing your Twitter tag, I can understand why.
I'm sure at least one person here will believe that there's a new Twitter follow4follow scammer with the exact same posting style who just also happened to start shilling a Substack within the past two weeks.

>>20297946
First you claimed the guy got banned in some follow4follow scam.
Then you claim I’m this guy that you probably pulled up like the random Indian author from like 2 weeks ago.
You can claim I’m an Indian, randos, or even a woman. I just don’t care. Tell me why you disagree with what I have to say.

>>20297969
>First you claimed the guy got banned in some follow4follow scam.
That's what I suspected a while back. Your twitter was listed as "This account does not exist". Turns out it was just a tag change and all the old posts were preserved on this Tocharus account.
>Then you claim I’m this guy that you probably pulled up like the random Indian author from like 2 weeks ago.
?

>>20297733
>It's a Barneyfag situation with one autist on some insane crusade.

>>20297980
Sure, I’m banned, I’m an Indian, I’m this rando, I’m a woman, and next week I’ll be transgender.
What part of my argument do you disagree with?

>>20298000
>and next week I’ll be transgender.
Wouldn't surprise me at this rate.

Why is it so hard to concentrate on writing? Especially when starting.

>>20298010
It's a mental block of starting a monumental task with minimal pay-off.

New thread >>20298022

>>20296803
kys

>>20297942
I disagree that you have a product at all. You've only hardened my position on that. Fuck off I don't want to hear about your twitter scam for a nonexistent product. I don't care about your marketing I care about your (nonexistent) product.

>>20298054
Yeah yeah yeah, scam this scam that, how about you tell me how my free advice for visibility is a scam retard.

>>20298070
Tell me how marketing hot air is in any way useful. You can't even give a general overview of your supposed book. Not even a genre, I mean holy fuck. You can't describe the profile of the people who would read it. Isn't that a critical part of marketing, knowing who your audience is? Bots on twitter is not a demographic that buys books. WHO is your audience and WHY would they want to buy your book. But I don't think you have a product - you certainly haven't disabused me of that notion - so of course you can't tell me who would even buy it.

>>20298088
Yeah yeah keep screaming
>who are you
>who follows you
>waaaaaah
Faggot, no I will never post my onlyfans here.

>>20298054
the faggot will keep posting regardless, you're wasting energy engaging at all

>>20298115
When I publish my book do you think they’ll feed back to
My
Onlyfans?

>>20297156
Ugh. Your mouth is still writing checks that your ass hasn't cashed yet.

Here's a cautionary tale for you...
CNN thought they'd have a hit with CNN+.
They predicted 30 million subs from "superfans".
They got about 150,000, with only 10,000 watching regularly.
They spent $300 million to make it happen.
It shut down in 24 days.

Do you really think your "estimates" and "predictions" are going to fly?

>>20298141
CNN is FULL of bot followers.
My onlyfans however is doing numbers.
You’ll never find my romance books, EVER.

>>20298110
Genre, at least? Fiction or nonfiction?
>>20298115
Seems like it. I'd say he was advertising except there's no product. Maybe he's just off-topic, marketing with no actual writing in /wg/

>>20298150
>romance
I sincerely hope this isn't a shitpost. Romance is a great genre to write for, I believe its the largest market. And that answers my question as to who your readers are, women age 20 something to 50 something.

>>20298153
Okay fine. Literally never ask me again.
I use my onlyfans to attract people to my lusty race mixing romance books.
My newsletter posts updates of my various experiences in the shoots.
Yes it’s lowbrow but it’s lucrative.

What else do you want to know?

>>20298174
Was it that hard to just answer the fucking question.

>>20298167
No, it’s why I chose romance.
I chose it because it has the highest marketability. Smut will be my retirement.
Go ahead, berate me, call me a slut, I don’t care.

>>20298174
>race mixing
your planned method of suicide

>>20298176
Fuck you, you try putting yourself out there.
What do YOU write?

>>20298174
>What else do you want to know?
are you jewish?

>>20298180
Yes and my now 9000+ followers will eventually enable me to retire at age 21.
I’ve never been closer to being able to stop working forever than right now.
Mock my romance.
Mock my onlyfans.
Mock anything you want.
It’ll be great.

>>20298195
What does that have to do with anything?

>>20298205
sorry your circumcision robbed you of an entire lifetime of pleasure and now you can only destroy as a result

I said new thread
>>20298022

>>20298263
Oooh, anon sure is uppity.
C'mon, relax! It's Friday!

>>20296579
Finish your novel, edit it and send it out to publishers. Or literary agents, if you live in a dystopian hellscape where such parasites reign. Do this, and you will build up a backlog of novels like I intend to do.