/lit/ - Literature

It's an interesting fucking book but one that can filter it in a lot of ways. Normie Catholics (and probably even most priests) would be skeptical of this book because it looks occult, and new-age people would initially read it but probably be turned off by how unabashedly Christian it is despite the new-age title and look.

It takes a really specific type of person to dig into this book, but if you can do it it really is something special.

>>20285296
This. It is one of my favorite books, but I don't recommend it to everyone.

>>20285348
One of the most striking things for me is how early on the author talks about how Hermeticism is about being able to fundamentally recognize the patterns and relationships between things and isn't about necessarily being "secret knowledge." The stress that's placed on not having it be some "muh sekrit club" stuff makes it different from a lot of occult books and also adds a layer of genuineness to what it's trying to do.

I wish I had the edition that had Hans Urs von Balthasar's comments on it; I feel like that'd be interesting to read.

>>20285384
Yes, I respect how he stresses that hermeticism does NOT make you better than the average Christian and that if you think you've gained something more than others because you have secret knowledge then you've actually lost what you already had.

For to every one who has will more be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

>>20285384
He's very humble, I like that about Tomberg.

>>20285247

I liked the book - it got me thinking about symbolism seriously for the first time, and the early chapters about vertical and horizontal symbolism blew my mind.

Eventually, I dropped occultism entirely when I took my baptismal vows when converting to Orthodox Christianity, and Orthodox theology completes every missing hole in every system I have ever read. I do kinda want to finish reading Meditations, just to see what else is in there and to complete it.

One of the reasons that Orthodoxy completes the missing pieces, is that it doesn't separate what Meditations calls the Petrine and Pauline sides of the Church, the exoteric and the esoteric (that in Meditations is assumed to be hermeticism). They're the same thing in Orthodoxy - there has never been a divide, and the inner beating heart of Orthodoxy is the same thing as the outer exoteric life.

>>20285247
>>20285296
>>20285348
Thanks. I have purchased this now.

>>20285247
It's good but really long. Check out Stratford Caldecott's The Radiance of Being. You will love it.

>>20285504
What are your thoughts in pic. Related? I am researching traditions of initiatic Esotericism which may constitute part of the Orthodox tradition, and I have stumbled upon these sorts of "hidden" initiatic doctrines and trends which would've been far more prevalent actually during the period of Byzantine empire, for some reasons lots of things about astrology, symbolism, divinations, alchemy, etc. Essentialy Occultism, When it comes to the history of Orthodox Christianity remain hidden, untranslated compared to western esotericism and unknown but you do catch traces of them.

>>20285568
So there definitely is some sort of "Esoteric" side or was...
What you're saying is true to some extent but, this sort of absolutely "democratic" spiritual point of view, negates the hierarchy of having hesychasts, more spiritual texts, of course anyone is open to them if they are so inclined, but they have to be spiritually willing, there is no "just pure exoterism - is the whole of the doctrine" that would be something like Protestantism - where anyone a criminal or a virtuos person can just say "Jesus Christ is Lord" and they've experienced the complete doctrine, and the complete spiritual life - which they even deny exists, because of their absolute distinction between creation and divinity.

>>20285504
How is that true of Orthodoxy and not Catholicism? Could not the Catholic mystics make the exact same claim?

>>20285504
>They're the same thing in Orthodoxy - there has never been a divide,
There has. Arguably there still is or are you going to deny the experiences etc. Of hesychasts, or the the passages in symeon the new theologian, where they explicitly refer to Initiates(μύσται).
Spiritual communism where it's all equal, is an active denial of the purification, or the spiritual ladder, or degrees of initiation referred to in the pic here and in the "ladder of divine graces" linked to in the article below
>>20285568
Which are also present in "neoplatonic" writings,
Here is an interesting article aswell
https://www.themathesontrust.org/library/yoga-of-hesychasm
>An article on the short mystical poem “The Ladder of Divine Graces” by Theophanis the Monk. [James Cutsinger]

>>20285384
Yes, the core of Christianity is that faith in Christ saves. The esoteric strand of Christianity is interesting but it absolutely must not lead to any sense of pride or vanity about having secret knowledge, or worse, the belief that secret knowledge is necessary for salvation (gnosticism). The hermetic is always a servant, never a master.

>>20285611
Only Knowledge destroys Ignorance, if you want to say that knowing Jesus Christ Saves is enough fine, but if it was merely a matter of acknowledgement why did you have Paul teaching, and the apostles teaching, apostolic succession, church hierarchy, and so on.
If a person has totally false ideas of "Jesus saves" and starts murdering people thinking "Jesus saves" that is because he is lacking Knowledge about what that exactly entails, wouldn't you say?

>>20285568
Initiation is retarded and overrated. Guenon was initiated by all these kooks who didn't know what they were talking about. No, a secret handshake or pegging up the ass does not confer some spiritual magic on to you. Stop smoking opium.

>>20285611
What if the secret knowledge is exactly what will destroy ignorance, pride, vanity... etc. Even acknowledging and Knowing that the hermetic is always a servant, means you have through gnosis "determined" this.

>>20285631
>No, a secret handshake or pegging up the ass does not confer some spiritual magic on to you.
Maybe it could have some influence on you if you let it, all initiation is ultimately "self-initiation" at some point, which is non-different from what you're advocating
>smoking opium / entheogens
There is nothing wrong with it

>>20285594
He is not correct its just semantics, in the same way orthodox saints as I referred to even use the word "initiate" but all of a sudden they don't, it's not true

Read this https://vedavyasamandala.com/en/initiation-and-method-of-hesychasm/

>>20285636
It rarely is. Knowledge can be like wealth, a source of pride and attachment to the material. The beauty of Christianity is that an old lady who prays the rosary daily is more Holy than a scholar who has read 1000 books on theology.

Rely on the wisdom of God.

>>20285247
https://justacatholic.medium.com/observations-on-the-influence-of-the-occult-in-traditional-catholic-discourse-2d798e5ba51c

>>20285568

I don't have many thoughts - seems straightforward and normal to me, for a high-ranking educated official with to write those things. I'll elaborate in response to the next anon and his assertion that I'm denying a spiritual difference between initiates and non-initiates.

>>20285610

>There has. Arguably there still is or are you going to deny the experiences etc. Of hesychasts, or the the passages in symeon the new theologian, where they explicitly refer to Initiates(μύσται).
>Spiritual communism where it's all equal, is an active denial of the purification, or the spiritual ladder, or degrees of initiation referred to in the pic here and in the "ladder of divine graces" linked to in the article below

In the first initiation of Baptism, Chrismation, and your first Holy Communion, have been regenerated to the degree that your will co-operates with baptism, become annointed as a living temple of the Holy Spirit, and have been joined ontologically to the body of Christ. This is undeniably a universal initiation into the life of Christ, and that is the limit of my alleged "Spiritual communism".

Being initiated into further depths of the life in Christ, is a matter of your mentioned ascetic purification that then actualises the potential received in baptism, which St Maximus the Confessor talks about in the ambigua. The further "initiates" are those who have touched that stage of deeper spiritual life, of consummating their full repentence from the fallen nature, and is at the stage where particular Holy Elders acquire gifts such as clairvoyance.

As a side note, have you read Fr. Seraphim Rose's biography, "Not of this World"? He talks about experiences in both aspects - both of a sense of spiritual peace lingering for weeks after his first holy communion, and for receiving what he felt like a little flame in his heart at his monastic tonsure, which his fellow monastic partner Fr. Herman also confirmed feeling.

>>20285661
Interesting but I believe Tomberg was more authentically Catholic than the blog author is. Also Angelico Press is probably the finest publishing house for Catholics operating today, next to Emmaus Press.I have little time for wowsers who try to argue that the Church at the time of the counter reformation is the only valid form of the faith

>>20285684
>I have little time for wowsers who try to argue that the Church at the time of the counter reformation is the only valid form of the faith
So you know nothing about catholicism and doctrinal infaillibility

>>20285594

The author of OP's book explicitly makes the case that the esoteric dimension of Christianity is Hermeticism, and he is saying that as a Hermetic Roman Catholic. From his perspective, this necessarily implies that the Roman Catholic spirituality is different to the Orthodox spirituality, since Hermeticism and other beliefs like that have been anathematised in Orthodoxy.

My understanding, however, is different - my understanding is that Hermetic occultism came in to popularity in the RC Church after it had abandoned the Holy Spirit in the great schism of 1054. Prior to that, the Western side of the pre-schism Church had identical spirituality to the Eastern side, which unfortunately only the East retained after the Great Schism.

Here is an article that goes into a comparison between the sanctity of the recent Russian St Seraphim of Sarov, and Francis of Assissi. https://orthochristian.com/90893.html

>>20285689
Doctrinal infallibility doesn't start and end with the baroque church.

>>20285704
Okay?... But it means that the Church cannot go back on its counter-reform
or the Council of Trent
or all the doctrinal condemnations that Tomberg's doctrine falls under

>>20285696
Orthodox hesychasm is basically Yoga. The Orthodox insistence that they represent pure Christianity unmarred by sources like hermeticism is laughable.

>>20285677
Thanks for the reply thoughts on this site here?
>>20285661
>The Mystical interpretation is to negate the genuinely initiatic nature of Hesychasm, the existence of a master-to-disciple transmission, and consequently the existence of a method based on acquired notions that must be put into practice by following rigorously the injunctions of the master6. Indeed, Saint Gregory Palamas, the highest theologian of Hesychasm, affirmed in consonance with Saint Gregory of Nyssa7 that the chain of masters went back to Moses:

>The doctrines, today commonly known and recognized by all and publicly preached, existed as mysteries8 of the law given by Moses.9

>>20285722
>Orthodox Hesychasm is basically Yoga
And that is testament to the traditions incorruption, and purity, however I think it is less "yogic" than would be preferable, so it is still a degeneration of some kind.

>>20285711
Nothing Tomberg taught was incompatible with Vatican II

>>20285726
Even though I've heard that, in caves on Mt. Athos they have extreme ascetics who live off eating herbs and plants off the ground, and are sustained directly by the uncreated energies, who knows of the reality though, pretty unverifiable.

>>20285696
>the great schism of 1054
The "great schism of 1054" is a myth. If you really believe the Church abandoned the Holy Spirit you are being dishonest and a bad historicist to say the least.

>The only valid expresaion of the Christian faith is that which oerfectly conforms to how it was practices at the time of the Council of Trent
Sure sign of a tradlarper. If you quote Pope Pius X more than Maximus the Confessor you're in no position to lecture anyone else.

>The only valid expression of the Christian faith is that which perfectly conforms to how it was practiced at the time of the Council of Trent
Sure sign of a tradlarper. If you quote Pope Pius X more than Maximus the Confessor you're in no position to lecture anyone else.

>>20285696
>>20285247
Doesn't he believe in reincarnation? Yikes.

>>20285656
>Since the chin resting on the chest oppresses the larynx, the inhaled air overheats and ignites a heat source in the chest. This fire, which is not the ordinary one of digestion, has the capacity to burn the imperfections due to original sin.

Holy... Based.. there's no way this article is real, any orthodox here can crosscheck? Or have any views on it?

>>20285764
Contact.

>It is as if the breathing of the Hesychast reproduces in a reverse sense the creative activity of God. By exhaling, God creates the world, by inhaling he reabsorbs it and dissolves it. Similarly, but inversely, while breathing in, the Hesychast takes the Lord into himself, whereas, while exhaling, he expels the individual limitations. The moment of union (sskrt. samādhi) between divine and human occurs in the pause between the inhalation and expulsion of the air27. To make this experience more effective and prolonged, the initiate must tighten the throat even more, pressing his “beard” on the chest. This technique is very similar to that used in Yoga, known as jālandhara bhandha, which consists in the occlusion of the network of subtle channels (nāḍī), in particular the two main ones, iḍā and piṅgalā, thus temporarily arresting the motor agitation of the body.

Contracting the throat and pressing the chin firmly against the chest: this binding [bhandha], called jālandhara, removes senility and death [leads to immortality].

When the jālandhara bhandha is stabilized, characterized by the occlusion of the larynx, the drink of immortality28 no longer falls into the fire and the element of air is no longer agitated.

With the contraction of the throat it is possible to immobilize energetically the two nāḍīs.29

>>20285764
Typical Catholics....
>Today, this initiatory path of the Orthodox Church does emerge unscathed from criticism and falsifications. The Catholic Church, which beginning with the reform of Latin Catholicism had already begun to lose its initiatory priestly ways transmitted through the Benedictine monastic order38, as early as the 11th century considered Hesychasm a “pagan” heritage. No one knows on what grounds this assumption is actually based. Without hesitation, however, she welcomed with visible relief the calumnies promoted by Barlaam of Calabria, maintaining to this day an attitude of contempt. However, a fascinating pamphlet, appeared in Russia in 1881 and soon translated into various Western European languages with the title “The Tales of a Russian Pilgrim”39, began to have a favourable diffusion, particularly among Catholic lay people. The book then became fashionable after the catastrophic conclusion of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, on the wave of the uncritical ecumenism promoted by the new Catholic church. The ‘68 rebellion and the worldwide explosion of New Age have consecrated this short text as a must of globalist culture, completely distorting its meaning. The Jesuit priest Gian Vittorio Cappelletto, following these unconscious impulses and realizing the absence of esotericism in the Catholic church, decided to set right this deficiency by bringing in the Hesychasm with the silent complicity of the Vatican. However, instead of reaching out to Orthodox circles to receive the regular transmission of the initiation, indulging in the syncretism of the “interreligious dialogue”, he accepted the hasty opinion that Hesychasm was a method of Indian Tantric origin. In 1977 Cappelleto became a disciple of the deviated neo-hindū current known as Ānanda mārga. After this experience, he founded the community of “Ricostruttori di Preghiera” (prayer reconstructors), self-proclaimed “Catholic Hesychasts” who pronounce mantras of Tantrism and perform pseudo hindū rituals, to the great satisfaction of the pontifical hierarchies.

>Christianity makes sense if you change it at it's core

>>20285807
Cont.
>>Leaving aside these grotesque attempts, which clearly damage both the authentic Hindū and Orthodox traditions and that can be attributed only to the cadaverous spasms of the Catholic Church, we will conclude with the following observation. The lack of interest or even the “conspiracy of silence” surrounding Hesychasm from professed traditional circles appears highly suspicious. In fact, Orthodox Hesychasm represents the most natural, nearest and least traumatic solution for those esoterists born in the Catholic world who seek an authentic initiatory connection40. In this case there would not be the obstacle of assuming habits, customs and mentalities that are secularly different and often in contrast with one’s own roots, which characterizes the conversion to another religion; nor, much

>>20285809
>change it
What do you even mean? All religions have different points of views, different paths, accommodated for different peoples with different dispositions.

Cope.

>>20285815
Contradicting and making new shit up, then claiming it retroactively justifies something it has no relation to is, I would say "changing it". The new stuff is hardly a perspective on the old, it is entirely it's own thing trying to patch up the fact that the 2000 year old book has thought limited to what was known 2000 years ago in a small area. At that point I don't see why you would keep LARPing as a Christian on 4chan, just admit you're an occultist who likes the Abrahamic aesthetic.

>>20285827
Valentinianism is the true form of Christianity and always has been

>LARP
>aesthetic
>valentianism
o no

>>20285827
>Contradicting and making new shit up, then claiming it retroactively justifies something it has no relation to is, I would say "changing it".
Summarising all religion there unless you're being selective, based on what history?
So you should be anti-religion... oh wait you're probably a Anti-Abrahamist larper who is will praise Buddhism and Hinduism in a heartbeat unless I'm mistaken. If you're a genuinely curious person, without dishonesty I don't see why you shouldn't also be interested in Christianity or Islam, all religion from my point of view are valid paths, the Christian tradition in this case the Hesychasm, is something which has been practices for minimum 1000 years, and claims to go back to Moses, and they did support all of this with scripture

>
A heart that has been completely emptied of mental images gives birth to divine, mysterious intellections that sport within it like fish and dolphins in a calm sea. The sea is fanned by a soft wind, the heart’s depth by the Holy Spirit. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: “Abba, Father” (Saint Paul, Epistle to the Galatians, IV.6).24

How can a heart be emptied of mental images? In only makes sense with orthodox nous hermeneutics etc. There are many passages which point to theosis, anything can be read in or extrapolated from the text.

Why would it be abour aesthetic?

>>20285856
>oh wait you're probably a Anti-Abrahamist larper who is will praise Buddhism and Hinduism in a heartbeat unless I'm mistaken
many such cases. They have probably never read a single gospel

>>20285811
>Orthodox Hesychasm represents the most natural, nearest and least traumatic solution for those esoterists born in the Catholic world
keep dreaming bayraktar bait

>>20285856
I should restate,
*It can be explained sufficiently from the point of view of Orthodox interpretation not Only.

>>20285858
You can read the Gospels (and the Tanakh they rely on), and disagree with them. Porphyry and Julian Augustus for instance, or Nietzsche

>>20285871
It is you again... You hate christianity so much you have to enter every single thread about it. You are eternally resentful

>>20285856
>all religion from my point of view are valid paths
This stems from the idea that all religions are paths to truths, when none of them have even shown anything supernatural beyond what we know the body can biologically do. If there is a truth, the entire human approach has so far been wrong.
>Why would it be about aesthetic?
Because you most likely care about what feelings and sensations Christianity poses, not some search for understanding that is fundamentally contradicted by the expectations of the religion itself. You don't get anything special for being more insightful on the unnecessary metaphysics of Christianity, which have no verifiable effect or path besides how they make you feel, you do it to show your devotion to the attention need of YHWH who you can truly never understand.
There's also another question, if your soul is safe with Christ in a case where Christianity is true (inb4 larper replies with "its true") then why not spend your time better proving the presumptions you have about Christianity but cannot rationally nor even esoterically infer, besides through trust? Christianity has no monopoly on any occult or esoteric traditions or any philosophy, it just took them. It isn't the first monotheism either, the only thing it was the first in was focusing around Christ, all arguments positive of that are unnecessary, all negative are stated to "fail to understand God cannot be understood by mortals". It's a black hole on the philosophical development of mankind.

>>20285871
The problem is not that you can differ in opinion, it's the one-sidedly deconstructive approach, what textual tradition are you deriving your criticism from, if you're the anon from before, if your issue is that Christian traditions "pilpul" the text, what text are you "pilpulling" the point is
>muh "pilpul"
Is not an argument, as I said, I think all religions with esoteric traditions are legitimate, Historical criticism is not a tradition, and is by its very nature Exclusive more so then what I am saying, because it attempts to deconstruct and delegitamise all religion.
Also the "Monotheism" vs. "Polytheism" is hardly even sound metaphysically speaking.
Unless you want to literally claim Multiplicity or Plurality in the Brahman, Monotheism is what all the legitimate religions are about, true "polytheism" is a total degeneration.

>>20285875
Christianity never left alone what it opposed. There is never a single thread about non-Christian religion or philosophy here that does not contain unsolicited preaching and denunciations from the volcano worshipers

>>20285888
>Monotheism is what all the legitimate religions are about
Monotheism in Christianity and Zoroastrianism is autistic obsession over the notion of first/root cause, completely meaningless without it, but completely meaningless if your philosophy does not require this linear line of reasoning. Jewish monotheism originally just oriented itself around denying other Gods while making their one God the best to create a more fierce ethno religious identity around the time.

>>20285888
Different anon, but it is true that Christianity relies upon believing another religion is mostly true in order to make its case that it alone is entirely true. You cannot be a Christian "esotericist." Jesus makes it very plain what is needed of you to join his movement

>>20285890
It is a proselytizing religion. So what? Are you gonna keep whining? Buddhism is also a proselytizing religion.

What you do is different from proselytism, however. You act AGAINST it for your own personal reasons, not due to your own religion. What is your excuse?

>>20285886
> are valid paths
This stems from the idea that all religions are paths to truths, when none of them have even shown anything supernatural beyond what we know the body can biologically do. If there is a truth, the entire human approach has so far been wrong.
Many many words but as soon as I read that there, I stopped reading, I don't have time to debate scientistic materialists — pseuds.
All people who take religion seriously know that it is supra-rational, beyond this sort of material verification, beyond being, Transcendent.
>Muh Christianity
Why do you pretend to have a bias against Christianity only here, your enemy is all religions! Maybe you are unfamiliar with anything other than Christianity.

>>20285907
>please don't oppose me
no

>>20285904
>Christianity relies upon believing another religion is mostly true in order to make its case that it alone is entirely true
No it's all beyond these logical dialectics "true" and "false"
And no "Christianity" is not contingent on any Other "religion," in fact this sort of objectification of incorporeal ideas, theologies, philosophies, and the "contingencies" you're creating between them is entirely illusory. I'll talk about Orthodoxy here because that's what I'm familiar with

>>20285904
Christianity by its very nature is a Mystery cult amongst mystery cults, a Pagan religion amongst pagan religions, its only retards who have their heads in secular history, and these illusory and artifical distinctions, who get so confused.

>>20285920
Christianity is hellenized Judaism change my mind "Orthodox" Christian

>>20285918
Christianity has doctrinal reasons to confront other religions. I am asking what are the reasons behind your confrontation of christianity? It is nothing but resentment. I have seen multiple posts by you in the archives it is always the same thing: 100% prejudice against christianity, complete ignorance of it, while showing some sympathy for some vague buddhism etc

>>20285923
It's a Judaean version of Dionysus I'll give you that. But the wine has been watered down, you are all saved as long as you pray to the master who will tear down the strong and elevate the weak and invert all relationships of men on earth

>>20285928
I think it's dumb. If you were instead arguing that the sky were lime green I would be against that too

>>20285908
>offended by what he reads
>misinterprets it and says something stupid on top
If any religious system so far was right they would have some kind of supernatural proof of it. That doesn't mean I think materialism is right either.
>why Christianity
They spread the most retarded ideas on the internet and plague it with ignorance, as posited by (You). And Christians, primarily reproduce by appealing to tradLARPers or indoctrinating Children. I don't exclude other Abrahamist religions but I've never seen Muslims or Jews argue as autistically as Christians did on an absurd (Jesus' and reality's nature and entwining them) nor gaslight as much.

>>20285923
No idea is new, nothing is new, Truth Iis immutable it doesn't change, all things throughout eternity follow the same pattern, it is not divided into parts and these parts are not all contingent on eachother, rather the truth or "gateway to truth" is merely particularised in one or the other religions, the individual is always throughout his life a participator in a supra-particular domain of Universals, even if he is simply "individualising" them, the religions are just preserving vehicles of the most ancient timeless doors.

That's all I'll say about it.

>>20285934
>I think it's dumb
Yes. And have you ever read a single gospel? I once asked you what was your favorite christian text and you answered "LOTR". I cannot believe someone who has read the gospels and other christian texts would mention "LOTR".

You have never tried to understand it sincerely. NGMI.

>>20285947
>You have never tried to understand it sincerely
What of your performative cargo cult version of it? Is that sincere, to revivify a corpse of a religion whose essence is the belief that corpses come back to life with a little Disney magic? I like the episode in Acts about Ananias and Saphira because you all give me a bullshit answer that "God did it" as a cover-up of cult violence

The only good thing Communists ever did was not humoring Christians in pretending they're right. I'm glad separation of Church and state was all that was needed for that to happen in the west too.

If God real why only show up to several sunburnt Jews before
>hes unexplainable
If that's your standard then why not pick a better religion that's also unexplainable? At least convert to Judaism and worship whom the covenant actually is for according to Jesus himself (ie not goy).

>>20285926
Here refer here
>>20285941
Judaism is just a surface level distinction, Truth cannot be diminished by Names or Conditions, in the way you ascribe them, in fact it is primarily experiential, and the Religous point of view is the gateway to primordial truths, through symbol, ritual, rite, rubric, etc. Communing in the eternal divinity, before christ after christ, the pre-incarnational logos - the soul of man itself which is God, and in God, we are right now IN God, and as a macrocosm the incarnation purified the microcosm, in theory this opens of the path to realising the ontological identity of the Absolute.

>>20285739

Fuck off, Jesuit anon.

>>20285958
What I find intriguing is that you also asked me:
>Do you even understand Buddhism? Did you even bother to try? At least try.

Which means you do not apply your own criteria.

>is the belief that corpses come back to life
Yes. There are also claims about resurrection in hinduism and buddhism. But you will not dismiss those religions because of it, will you?

>>20285941
>say something retarded
>"That's all I'll say"
classic.
If truth was immutable, it would be easily reachable because you wouldn't need to do anything to reach it, just a mention of it would be a revelation. The truth, very clearly, isn't immutable and is instead increasingly less specific the more complexity you can afford. The only fundamental truth that is immutable is that things can and will change. No man steps in the same river twice. Reality has simply accustomed to making more stable worlds of change that are easily comprehensive, whether for our brains or our souls, to give illusions of immutability so we can more easily analyze it.

>>20285930
> But the wine has been watered down, you are all saved as long as you pray to the master who will tear down the strong and elevate the weak and invert all relationships of men on earth
It is only your incomprehension which reduces it to the social domain, Jesus is Dionysus, and Dionysus is Jesus, no it doesn't matter what Name you use here, the Eternal Nameless One, I beyond Name, the Essence is the Eternal Divinity communed in through all ages, "Christianity" Eternal and ultimately, God is every God, and Beyond-God, "Infinite" means everything, all pantheons, Zeus, Dionysus, Apollo, and so on. In fact at some level Names, by which you Invoke God become meaningless, through silence you commune in that which is Beyond Names, Silence was shared by all "ancestors" maybe your language has changed from then till now, but even then your most ancient ancestor if he was in a cave, still would've felt silence, and the beating of the heart, nature, Eternal Means Eternal, Begingless Endless, Great Beyond Name Beyond the distinctions which you Satanically Impose here, All-God Beyond All-God. And all Personal And Impersonal, Beyond Personal and Impersonal, Immanent and Transcendent, beyond all these concepts, these concepts do not even begin to describe the experience.

Cope and Seethe.

>>20285979
Christianity requires miracles to be affirmed as a kind of shit test and also that you believe in the accuracy of some other religion's scriptures. Many systems of Buddhist and Hindu thought do not require you affirm a series of historically contentious events before proceding to examine their doctrines and beliefs. Nor do they say "here is a compendium of texts from people we consider ourselves to have succeeded which we rely upon to present our own beliefs; rest assured that their interpretation is wrong and ours is correct." Christianity is the most contingent religion there is.

>>20285998
>the Eternal Nameless One, I beyond Name, the Essence is the Eternal Divinity communed in through all ages
This is no bona fide "burn all the evil demons and smash their temples" Christianity speaking but perhaps more of a Proclus or a Plotinus

>>20285983
>If truth was immutable, it would be easily reachable because you wouldn't need to do anything to reach it
No No No,
It's immutability I'd precisely what makes it hard for your to "reach" because something which you can "reach" is mutable in the sense that it can be "reached" and then "unleashed."

Stopped reading RIGHT THERE.
Treacherous Satanic deceiver.

>>20285998
So archetypes except we presume Jesus is a special guy but also archetype incarnate? Sounds really brainlet tier to me, seeing as Christianity is literally based on a physically appearing Jesus. At that point just say "Christianity stayed relevant because it was a good framing for a rare archetype" rather than "the Bible is true".

>>20286000
I am not asking for your opinions, which are very low brow, I was asking if you tried to read it sincerely. Like you once asked me:
>Do you even understand Buddhism? Did you even bother to try? At least try.

And why do you CONFRONT it if not due to your own religion – but for that I already have the answer.

>>20286013
*it's immutability
>>20286008
When you hear the word "Infinite" "Eternal" take it seriously next time and you'll see where I am coming from.

>Satanic
it begins

>>20286013
Your satisfaction in a thoughtform is not "truth". If it was a non-immutable truth it would perform miracles. Instead it's just hubris and certainty re framed as being virtues. Lucky for you, your thoughtform and hubris can cease if you ever reach mildly better wit.

>>20285723

I think he's right to recognise that the doctrines and metaphysical views at the core of pagan esoteric traditions are in direct contradiction with Christianity, and the syncretism between them is preparing for a "great union of all religions", that is openly part of the plans of globohomo - the great syncretistic counter-initiation that will be the preparatory stage for the enthronement of the Anti-Christ.

For more details about this world movement of ecumenism and new age, you should read Fr. Seraphim Rose's "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future".

>>20286017
Is there something wrong with confronting what you think is wrong? I am curious what makes you so exalted that you think the advacement of your beliefs ought to be free of opposition.

>>20286014
Jesus is the Primordial Anthropos the Infinite-Faced personal deity, perfection the infinite spectrum of infinite light, The Logos is the Soul the I-ness , the Father is the unnameable essence which is Delimited Infinity, the Holy Spirit is formless form and pre-originated Geometriser,

>>20286028
Makes no sense at all. This Truth is immutable and therefore formless, appearances are mutable, manifestations are mutable, "performing a miracle" has form

>>20286018
>take it seriously next time
I can't take it seriously coming from your ilk. You've merely stolen it from your ancient opponents to facilitate their conversion

>>20286031
Your religion itself, in denying everything except itself, is the great anti-religion

>>20285904
>Different anon, but it is true that Christianity relies upon believing another religion is mostly true in order to make its case that it alone is entirely true

You don't have to believe that another religion is mostly true, but it is important to recognise where other religions aren't wrong - in particular, in their ancient histories that talk about the confusion of language after the fall of a tower, or great tree, and the flooding of the world, and a single most high God of heaven, and that sacrifice is appropriate to that God, etc.

It's consistent with the historical claims of Christianity - that it is a direct continuation of the original faith of the first formed man, and that other religions, in apostatising from faith in the one true God of Heaven, have slowly lost the sanctity of the one true of Heaven, and the true vision over truth over time as they lose the spirit that guides them into truth.

>>20286031
I think all religions should Be Universal but stay as strictly separate religions, nonetheless

>>20286042
Ok now define each of those words and explain to my why I would trust you.

>>20286052

The truth is anti-lie, yes.

The great anti-religion to come is the new world religion that says you are able to believe whatever you want, however you want, exactly how you want it, just so long as you worship the Anti-Christ as God.

A prefiguration of this is the Roman Catholic approach to accepting communion - you can believe Orthodox theology, or even Nestorian theology, both of which are anathematised by Roman Catholic canons, just as long as you accept the Pope as your spiritual head.

>>20286053
>You don't have to believe that another religion is mostly true
Yes you do. Where do you think the "Old" Testament comes from? It's the former covenant with Yahweh, which you are allowed to disregard in many cases because you believe it prophesized his incarnation as Jesus, who establishes a new convenant through himself in his capacity as Yahweh which is then exegeted by Paul and others as having fulfilled the previous covenants obligations

>>20286041
>Is there something wrong with confronting what you think is wrong?
If you think it is wrong you have first to have examined it in a honest manner.

A muslim may confront a christian, or a jew, or any other religious. But he does so on a positive claim based from his own religion. You confront christianity based on a negative claim, which as far as I have seen, denotes ignorance of christianity (since your favorite christian text is 'lotr).

In the same manner a christian may confront buddhism based on a positive claim from his own religion, or a negative claim if he has studied buddhist texts.

What is your negative claim based on?

>>20285757

Yes. He's ultimately not a Christian in his beliefs, and I eventually ended up accepting Christianity as truth, but his work helped give me some true ideas that shook me out of my materialistic stupor.

>>20286053
>that it is a direct continuation of the original faith of the first formed man
I get that Christians think belief isn't purely a representation of what one follows and rather some form of Divine Standard itself; but you do realize you do not have to believe everything you are told (nor make everything believable to your low standard if it's obviously false). Every religion has different claims on genesis. You give a special exemption to Christianitys need for reasoned affirmation because you like it, so you believe it, and consider that reason enough to affirm it. It's not even Circular Reasoning, it's Circular Feeling.

>>20286067
>the anti-christ
Imagine being this resentful about being conquered by Rome that schizos 2000 years later think you were surely talking about something more profound when they read your writings

>>20286067
The Anti Christ isn't even real in Christianity, how much of your religion do you idiots get from /pol/ and /x/?

>>20286072
Why do I need to have some pigeon-holed reason to oppose your religion? Are you only capable of a Chinese room style conversation?

>>20286072
Christianity has no proof it's true
>read the texts
Ok I have I'm still not convinced
>you haven't read the texts
Prove i-oh wait Christians don't believe in proof lmao

>>20286083
Yes by "examined in an honest manner" he means "agreed to my shit test of how gullible you are." If you read the texts and don't affirm them you are dishonest

>>20286076

>you do realize you do not have to believe everything you are told (nor make everything believable to your low standard if it's obviously false).

That's right, which is why I rejected belief in evolution after being raised an atheist, and why I rejected all of my invented ideas when I tried to syncretise new age occultist ideas with Christianity.

>>You give a special exemption to Christianitys need for reasoned affirmation because you like it, so you believe it, and consider that reason enough to affirm it. It's not even Circular Reasoning, it's Circular Feeling.

Stop projecting. Ask questions instead of projecting next time. You're a social pariah if you don't pay lip service to evolution is a historical fact in the modern age.

I didn't arbitrarily chose to believe that Christianity is historically true because it's emotionally comfortable. It would have been more emotionally comfortable to keep believing in everything I believed as an atheist or occultist, especially since I would be socially accepted far easier then. I accepted it because I had to accept it, in order to believe that other parts of the religion were actually true, like the fact that Christ is the Son of God, Truth Himself, and there is ultimately no source of information more trustworthy, and that all of the Saints who believed him are deified only because they chose to believe and trust him in all things, including Christ's own testimony about the first few days of the world He created.

>>20285247
Can you link the edition you had? Nervous of buying some dumb occultish shit on accident

>>20286093
This guy is just pretending to be a Christian to give Christians a bad name btw. Don't respond to him, he's been doing this for weeks(?) now.

>>20286081
>>20286083
You want nothing but to provoke, cause disorder etc. And all this based on egoistical resentments towards a religion you "don't like" – that is what drives your position in every single thread. For someone who likes buddhism you are very ego-centric and disturber.

>>20286077
The anti-christ is a figure not exclusive to christianity either... Muslims and hindus also use the term as they see it describes well.

>>20286093
Based
Very good work brother

>>20286079

>The Anti Christ isn't even real in Christianity

If /pol/ and /x/ were around in the 1st millenium of the church, and every church father that talked about the anti-christ was on it, I would be very impressed that two imageboards were around for 2000 years before computers were invented.

>>20286099
Post your beliefs.

>>20286099

Why do you think I'm pretending? There is an Anon that has been obviously pretending, like the one that says that he venerates Jay Dyer like a Saint. I'm not him.

>>20285247
Thanks for making this thread. I don’t come to /lit/ often but when I do I usually end up recommending this book to someone. The amount of ground it covers is pretty amazing but always with warmth and sincerity.
I fell into praying the rosary before finding this book. Reading it got me on board with all of it. Really sophisticated and meaningful arguments and gives you good eyes for reading the gospels. Then when he finally brings up the rosary near the end it’s pretty cool.
Thanks again. Joy and blessings to everyone in this thread.

>>20286100
>You want nothing but to provoke, cause disorder etc
Is that not the original spirit of Christianity, whose founder and earliest followers all sought suicide by Roman cop? Also non-Christians don't believe in an anti-Christ coming to overturn Jesus's ministry; you are clearly incapable of reading another system on its own terms, or "examining in an honest manner." But feel free to present us with some texts to the contrary.

>>20286100
Damn anon you can read two people as one you must be wise

>>20286117

>Also non-Christians don't believe in an anti-Christ coming to overturn Jesus's ministry

Jew detected. Dishonestly putting words in his mouth. That was not the definition of Anti-Christ that anyone has given in this thread.

>>20286117
>Is that not the original spirit of Christianity, whose founder and earliest followers all sought suicide by Roman cop?
No... Again proving you are ignorant of it.

>>20286120
I apologize to whoever is not the anon I was interacting with.

>>20286105
Pre-Christian Hermetic

>>20286127

Post line of initiation.

>>20286047
I mean coming from Anyone.

>>20286103
>who is Nero

>>20286123
That's a lot of anti-semitism for someone who worships and reveres such people and names his children after them

>>20286125
You are unfamiliar with the martyrdom fetish of the early Christians? And you would call me ignorant!

>>20286147

>The group of people who were faithful to God before Christ's incarnation, some of which met Christ before his incarnation, are exactly the same as the group of people who rejected Christ when he became incarnate, and their successors

Begone, Jew. When your forefathers rejected Christ, you were grafted out of Israel, and the gentiles were grafted into it. You inherit a blood curse from the killing of your own God, which is why you feel the need to constantly lie.

>>20286154
The christian spirit is in the sermon of the mount.

There is nothing about disrupting the political order ("render unto caesar", "turn the other cheek" etc). No provocation, no disorder. The christian spirit is never concerned with the kingdom of the world. But you should ask yourself what is *your* spirit.

>>20286146

If /pol/ and /x/ were around in the 1st millenium of the church, and every church father that talked about the anti-christ was on it, I would be very impressed that two imageboards were around for 2000 years before computers were invented.

>>20286108
Every thread there's a guy [(You)] who uses circular poor reasoning and says Christianity is to be believe because it is what it demands, in a discussion of "why would you believe or trust in the first place".

>>20286172
Proselytizing is inherently political.

>>20286172

Christian here. You're literally ignoring what he's saying. Stop being obtuse.

He doesn't like that the early Christians, and true Christians of the modern day, eagerly await the opportunity for a righteous martyrdom, and wants to use it as a point of mockery.

Let him mock it. It just proves that he's scared of death, and has no principles that he would ever die for, making him a completely spineless and rootless coward.

>>20286176

Why not just assume I'm a sincere retard, then?

If religion is true where are the miracles (that God did, in OT and NT to reinvigorate reason for worship in Jews) or even magic (done by Egyptians)?
>inb4 its a mystery/all part of the plan

>>20286179

Fuck off, postmodernist jew.

>>20286182
>this entire post
Imagine having principles you need to die for for them to be true. Unironically how is this not considered a mental illness?

>>20286201
No, I'm a Renaissance Jew.

>>20286179
It is not.

>>20286195

>If religion is true where are the miracles (that God did, in OT and NT to reinvigorate reason for worship in Jews) or even magic (done by Egyptians)?

Literally everywhere almost all of the time, up to the present day. here are a few examples:

https://pravoslavie.ru/54575.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRl3THDYN6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_ifoznlb6M This one is long.

As for magic, I don't have any testimonies on deck, but I remember reading somewhere in anthropological literature, that they said something like "An anthropologist who doesn't believe in magic is like a flat earther.", because literally every person who would go and study archaic jungle cultures would personally witness some undeniable voodoo.

Actually, I remembered something, an interview with an ex-mason who converted to Christianity giving his testimony about the occult. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4-c5O8lVM

Any link to a pdf or any other format of the book?

>>20286205

It is considered a mental illness in this day and age, because the modern world is built on cucking to the strongest power.

You will cuck to whoever tells you to cuck or die, because you fear death, like the Satan-enslaved bitch you are.

>>20286219

Functionally the same, since postmodernism has a direct lineage of intellectual succession from the renaissance.

>>20286220
Absolutely is. Especially in Rome of all things. Not to mention the Jewish "state" that was, and it's failed incarnations which was entirely religion centered. Your country at the time was almost synonymous with religion. Technically Christians aren't concerned with taxes directly, but they're still concerned when paying money to Churches or Churches paying taxes.

>>20286172
>The christian spirit is never concerned with the kingdom of the world.
Is this one of those no true scotsman things or are you unwittingly agreeing with Nietzsche in an attempt to refute criticism of Christianity?
>>20286182
I'd rather be accused of fearing death than live in fear of life. What is genuinely spineless and rootless is your incessant denuniciation of life and insistence that death is superior.

>>20286235
>renaissance
which has a direct lineage of intellectual succession from Christianity which has a direct lineage of intellectual succession from the Jews whoops everything is Jews now

>>20286220
Attempting to radically alter the beliefs and practices of a community to comply with a contract nominally drawn up with an astral overlord is extremely political

>>20286231
This is literally "You're not a man if you don't die for the economy" tier, except instead it's an inherently unprovable religion which tries to claim it is above all reason while not giving any indication to such a thing.

>>20286244
>which has a direct lineage of intellectual succession from Christianity

And that's where the break is. It has direct line of succession to Roman Catholic, Papal Christianity.

Orthodox Christian lands never had a renaissance, because they kept the true faith.

Everything else is ultimately jews though, yes.

>>20286230
Thavmapub has one.

>>20286255
>Orthodox Christian lands never had a renaissance
Because they had platonic texts all along? lmao

>>20286255
If Christianity is so true why can't it win wars? Why can't it convince the western part of Europe? The tools are supposedly in the Bible itself which I don't believe differs in the two regions, so what gives?

>>20286265

Orthodox countries kept secular hellenic learning, but that's not why they didn't have a renaissance.

The renaissance also had platonic texts out the wazoo. The platonic texts aren't the factor here - the factor is turning attention away from God and towards themselves and how to manipulate the earth.

>>20286267
Ignore bayraktar bait posters. He thinks his version of Christianity is special for having retarded the pace of modernization until the 19th century.

>>20286267

If you want actual answers so that you can understand our perspective, I can actually give you real answers. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste both of our times.

>>20286275
>turning attention away from God and towards themselves and how to manipulate the earth
I suppose the end of western monasticism is the only argument you have, but "incels" are evidently bringing it back in a mutilated form, and Christianity, ever able to sniff out the most self-denigrating people, should make significant inroads in the years to come among those with the greatest seethe

>>20286276

Modernization is recognised by any rational human being as a mistake.

Unless, you're one of those that loves the fact that technology lets the elites force the mask and the vaccine, and you're one of those who gleefully wears it and takes it.

>>20286282
>technology lets the elites force the mask and the vaccine
The last Roman emperors forced their cult on all of Europe without having steam engines

>>20286281

No, the incels are getting into heated polemics using sophisticated theological arguments they don't understand so that they can screencap their opponents and tell their incel friends how "cringe" their opponents are.

Actual monastics are rare nowadays, since it requires actually withdrawing from the world, and most of the ones who convert and become monks become e-monks.

In case it wasn't obvious to you, we're in a global period of spiritual decline. These things happen.

>>20286287

If you didn't fail preschool math, you'd understand that Europe is smaller than the entire globe. The Roman Empire collapsed because it got too big for communications to sustain it. The modern world is built on technologically overcoming communications barrier.

Our lives are not made better by that.

>>20286293
>In case it wasn't obvious to you, we're in a global period of spiritual decline. These things happen.
What you would date to the renaissance, I would date to Diocletian

When he realizes all reason and rational fails, the average /lit/izen functionally describes his beliefs in Christianity as a positive visualization. He can say things near the concept of logic, he can preach at the top of his lungs, but when it comes to connecting or investigating the pieces he is silent and falls back to the threats of the Bibles "undeniable" legitimacy based on things he never saw nor heard. This Christian visualization is nothing more than a reflection of what beliefs Christianity expects, someone who feels safe and certain in thinking about God, whom he knows he can never understand, yet can still hear and gain insight from, which ultimately means nothing besides allowing him to wrestle this false revelation with non-believers without ever being considering the case outside of himself, where such a visualization does not take place. And were he to, in some bout of bravery ever try to defy this dependence like an alcoholic would his bottle, he would be reminded of the existential threats he had never properly pondered due to the anti intellectualism expected of him in the first place and become docile once more.

>>20286299

I don't date it to the renaissance. I date it to the schism of 1054. The renaissance is just a consequence of that.

>>20286298
>The Roman Empire collapsed because it got too big for communications to sustain it
Not true. It was roughly the same size for 350 years. The collapse was due to bad management. Outsourcing the entire military, sending all your gold east for luxury goods, having a Cultural Revolution, etc., none of these are ingredients for stability. Communication was not instantaneous, but that never stopped imperialism anywhere in any place. Today's empires are all smaller geographically than before, but with better comms? Explain that one

>>20285247
Does it say anything about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being a metaphor for forces of nature?
https://youtu.be/L9Bme9IUjgQ

>>20286318

>Today's empires are all smaller geographically than before, but with better comms? Explain that one

Most of today's empires are corporate, not national.

>>20286321
It talks about kabbalah's tree of life quite a bit.

>>20286329
Well if you want to do apples and oranges fine, but the French, British, Russian, American, Turkish, German, etc. empires have all shrunk since we've moved from the industrial to the information age

>>20286349
Tree of life ok but I said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Also does it talk about a metaphorical interpretation of the Bible? I'm always looking for material to help me understand the actual meaning of the Bible. I don't care for literal interpretations.

>>20286312
The renaissance is a consequence of the collapse of Orthodox power in the mediterranean?

>>20286299
>What you would date to the renaissance, I would date to Diocletian
And that would be a bad take. The ancient world was in spiritual and intellectual decline already by the time of Alexander. One could just see how materialistic the art had become – sensual instead of symbolical.

>>20286312
Again with the myth of the 1054. The renaissance itself was not bad, it was a mix of both spiritual and materialistic period (as was Plato's era). The problem was what came after, and it was inevitable (Our Lord said: "It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!"). It had nothing to do with "muh 1054". You keep applying an almost cosmological view in which the entire fall of the west depends on mutual excommunications of 1054 that you interpret as a decising point of sacred history but that is entirely anachronistic...

If you are gonna insult me again just refrain from it for your own spiritual benefit.

>>20286374
>One could just see how materialistic the art had become
All art is material. I see this is just a race to be the bigger world denier, as expected of playing the "date the decline" game. Got the answer I wanted out of the Christian

>>20286473
>All art is material
Of course it is. But only in certain periods artists try to depict what is seen.

>>20286483
Your religion if you followed it instead of absorbing pagan culture would have you ban most representative art anyhow

>>20286490
Ye ye ye. What else bitter anon

>>20286473
It must be very world affirming of you to revolve part of your online activity in negative reaction to Christianity.

>>20286127
Why are humans fallen?

>>20286532
Get it
>>20286473
Fool

>psychoanalysis counter argument from upset Christian
And they say they're trad.

>>20286532
To negate negation, is that not affirmation?
>>20286577
Slave morality. Always envious and wounded. Someone external must be at fault.

>>20285247
I ordered the book a month ago and it arrived today, when this thread was made. Thread was also made at 10:44:44.

I look forward to reading this book, I hope it's not Catholic supremacist, how one man, who's a Tomberg expert described it.

>>20286605
If constant whining against christianity, repetition of "Christianity this and that" like a broken record, desparate need to vocalize his dislike etc is affirmation I want the most complete negation.

>>20286310
>>20286589
Who are you replying to?
Also this thread is pretty bad started our alright, Guénonfags exposition on the 3-way ontology of Advaita, Brahman(Pure Being), Maya(Magic/Relative Being), Non-Being

PURE BEING
NEITHER BEING NOR PURE BEING
NON-BEING

God is neither Being nor Non-Being in the Relative sense, In the Absolute sense God is Pure Being, Neither Non-Being nor Relative Being,
Pure Being Is Existence, Non-Being has No Existence, and so on so forth.
It is correct to refer to Brahman as Beyond-Being and Non-Being, Pure Being beyond Being - all in the Relative sense (which is how I think) But in the Absolute sense God is Just Pure Being.

I am thankful to GuénonChad for High-quality /lit/ posting.


>>20286605
The Metaphysical Infinity (in Christianity the Essence) can be referred to in Two Senses, Relative or Absolute how do you mean it?
Interesting so I think the Energies would then be Maya - which is probably why the Palamites are steadfast in holding the distinction, they are Relative Being but not Pure Being, ultimately they belong to Falsity, ultimately the Negative Union of Pure Being and Non-Being if you can imagine such a thing, so I Guess Jesus Christ is the Christian Ishvara/Saguna/(I feel like Has something to do with Non-Being, Non-existence, but can't name it, maybe the Death on the Cross), the Holy Spirit/Maya/Sophia/Shakti, the Father/Nirguna/Pure Being, I Guess new insights are learnt every day.

>>20286633
The (Energies) any Orthodox can chime in here? If they are not Gods essence Nirguna, then they must be Relative. Somehow, how does Nirguna reach us here through Christianity? I think it must all he symbolic, you eat the Eucharaist, you become a God Eater, this just a symbol to remind us of the Eternal Pure Being, who knows

>>20286629
>All things are worthless before Christ.
you already have a total negation, you've just tried to pull yourself out of it by your own shirt collar

>>20286633
>Pure Being Is Absolute True Existence

>>20286651
Yes. God alone suffices.

>>20285736
There are, even today. One of the hermit Elders was asked was the material world created or came to life spontaneously (Big bang etc.). He said that it was created and they asked him how is he certain of it? His answer was simple: "I witnessed it myself".

There are also people like that in the Buddhist and Yogic traditions, they all deserve highest respect.

>>20285296
I love how it BTFO's all the little wicca coven feminist man haters.

>>20286651
>All things are worthless before Christ
What does this mean? Is there a deeper meaning? Maybe has something to do with Non-Existence, Non-Being, Death, Emptying, Kenosis, to empty oneself of the Relative Being - is (Death of the World) is the prerequisite to Realising Pure Being - through the Silence of Non-Being, when it is darker the glow of the Pure Being shines brighter, this is only prepatory, as the eternal Non-duality is neither Dark nor Bright, but I think by exerting Extremes Inverses, at some point the Individual surpasses himself in the Negation of Relative Being then Lost in the Abyss of Non-Being the Hand of Brahman Pure Being reaches him and pulls him up and Unites with Him. Or perhaps this is what was meant that Christ was a "Fisher of Men" not that this corresponds to anything per say, but we become like fish in the dark ocean and the True Lord (Pure Being Brahman) fishes for us with his rod so to speak.

I think this is the basic scheme of Christianity, there is nothing that wrong with it

>>20285757
Reincarnation is a fact. Without reincarnation and Karma, not a single spiritual system/religion/philosophy makes no sense.

Highly spiritually developed monks, both Orthodox and Catholic know this, but they don't share their mystical insights with other, less dedicated monks, because it's not for them to know it, it's beyond their understanding.

One monk, named Kalist, who's a Saint in my opinion, had numerous incredible mystical experiences of direct communion with the Holy Spirit. In the biography that he dictated to a writer, he only mentions one esoteric/occult vision.

He said, when a man witnesses the Cross in the astral realm, he's completely changed and affected deeply. He didn't go into it any further.

So there people have experiences that are way outside Orthodox/Christian dogma, but they keep it for themselves, since it was shown to them only.

>>20286633
>>20286647
>>20286680
Any particular reason you are attempting to baptise Shankara to defend Christianity in the 21st century?

>>20286606
He’s decidedly Catholic but it doesn’t reek of supremacism. He’s a convert and he really appreciates being there. It’s more like when French writers are super French about everything because of course they are, but he’s not as stuck up about it.

>>20286669
I believe it and I understand it, ascesis is the Emptying of oneself, to go into the deserts of Non-Being free from the Constraints of Relative Being and to thirst for the waters of Pure Being.

Very good.

>>20286680
>>All things are worthless before Christ
>What does this mean? Is there a deeper meaning?
It exists to demoralize everyone into believing in the religion. The only thing that has worth is the one thing that cannot be comprehended, God, who supposedly created anything. Since he can't be known, you can't really know anything of true worth. A gaslighting trick that used to work on populations that hadn't even learned to write yet.

>>20286686
>So there people have experiences that are way outside Orthodox/Christian dogma, but they keep it for themselves, since it was shown to them only.
Which betrays the fact the entire "tradition" they are being barely tolerated within is largely dedicated to social control and not about mystical experiences, enlightement, etc., the toleration of which depends on the charisma and popularity of the person advocating those within the religion

>>20286693
The Theee Magi meeting the Infant Jesus were the Three Domains, the Pure, Relative and Voud.

Cope and Seethe, the Primordial Tradition Penetrates all Mysteries.

>>20286713
oh so any time there's three things, like breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or me with your mother and your sister, it forms an ontologically triune revelatory structure?

>>20286713
>why Christianity?
>ummm, they use the numbers 1 and 3 and those are holy in Christianity, sweetie?

>>20286693
Pure, Relative, Void
These Three keys unlock all Symbols, and Are Primordial representing the Heaven, Earth and Hades.
And there's Nothing you can do about it.

>>20285247
I heard about how the wheel of fortune card is actually the four gospels and laugh thinking about larping pagan bitches thinking they're edgy when they read tarot

>>20286729
Ok well what if there's a heavenly Jupiter, an earthly Jupiter, and a subterranean Jupiter, are we neoplatonic theurgists now or are we still doing Jesus stuff? Any church that actually reads its own scripture would condemn your heresy so why would you bother?

>>20286734
Fortune telling and gambling are sins so sounds like they are on to something

>>20286722
>>20286728
The Vedantists are Parrleled by the Platonists, Pythagoras, Plato, The Rishis of India, they all pitched the same water from the Well of Primordial Tradition, and it's our Job to read Platonism and Vedanta into Everything.

See pic. Related quote for example

Dionysios:
>Trinity and Unity are Names
>What is Transcendent is Beyond Every Name (Nama)
>Above [Beyond] Every [Relative] Being
>Not even Nothing and Void can Describe it [Beyons Non-Existence]
He acknowledges the Ontology:
>Relative Being [Maya]
>Non Being
>Something Beyond... [Pure Being]

THEREFORE:
The Natural conclusion of this Church Father Quote is like Advaita. 3-tier ontology, what the Church Fathers like Dionysios call Essence, is Being, Hyper Essence(His terminology) Pure Being,
Cope and seethe, Dionysios was an Advaitin in thr 6th century.

If only you understood the Tradition yourself. This is why Coomaraswamy says We have it all here, just not explicit with the Ontological exactness - the I-ness, and other sort of Yogic methods, while above Hesychasm has its own Yogic tradition.
I'm just saying you're coping, actually read people like Dionysios, and you'll see Christianity is a fine Tradition.


You have been BTFO'd and Expose'd
SEEEETHE

>>20286745
>>20286722
>>20286693
Absolutely BTFO'd
By Christian Saint Church Father Advaitin

Read Here:
>>20286814


Cope and Seethe.

At this point I can't tell who's a real Christian and who is trying to make it look bad

>>20286831
>>20286814
The God of Christianity IS Brahman Pure Being Essence.
Trinity and Unity are secondary considerations for devotional hylics.

>>20286838
Just like you'd have Shavites/Vaishnvaists
As said before the Christian Trinity is essentialy just a Personal spin on the Ishvara system, in fact maybe it's a sort of dilution or close parralel to the Satchitananda, further increasing coincidences,

JESUS CHRIST WAS AN ADVAITIN

>>20286745
>>20286734
>>20286728
>>20286722
>>20286700
Hey Pseuds


Where are your Refutations?
Get typing!

>>20286869
>>20286831
>>20286814

>>20286835
Every single person is this thread is a Shudra.

>>20286880
>refute this schizo nonsense or else you're wrong
My refutation is that it is syncretic trash failing to consider Christianity's exclusionism.

I'm convinced Advaita shilling is a very engineered psyop pushed on 4chan to depress and emasculate young males. The guenon spammer is constantly trying to brainwash 4channers into thinking they don't exist and they should embrace oblivion into the void and just sit around contemplating all day. Incredibly stupid philosophy. Must be a coordinated psyop.

>>20286893
Sentience is a wordly self-contradictory desperate cope, stop thinking.

>>20286605
>Slave morality. Always envious and wounded. Someone external must be at fault.
You literally don't know anything about the hermetic tradition holy moly

>>20286729
good take

>>20286910
I don't do drugs because I'm not a loser.

>>20286814
>>20286686
Nice schizo but honestly retarded. Understand three primordial forms of theological metaphysics just means that there is a primordial form and not which manifestation is the best. Christ is the best.

>>20286932
This is logically equivalent to all religions are transmitted through language and so all religions which use language are valid. Retarded take. Christ is God and the only door. Repent.

>>20286912
>You literally don't know anything about the hermetic tradition
There's no original sin or covenant theology in the Corpus Hermeticum, so what is your point? Futhermore, if Christianity is just a cope you use to belittle others for not having the same beliefs as you, you are acting in terribly bad faith.
>>20286814
Dionysus the Areopagite is literally just a neoplatonist affirming the Bible because it was illegal not to. There is little in that quote that has anything to do with the Jesus of the Gospels or the Yahweh of the Tanakh. That there are similarities between Platonism and Vedanta is noted, but once again I would ask what utility you find in baptizing Shankara? Which side are you ultimately trying to subvert, the Hindus into becoming Christian, or the Christians into becoming Hindus? It is far more intellectually honest to read something on its own terms.

>>20286892
>my refutation...
>accept the rejection of "syncretic" trash
Uhm.. that's exclusivism shudra.

Also, it should be noted that you have not the slightest clue what "syncretism" really constitutes, no surprise there, you don't belong here discussing Universal Manifestation, Metaphysics, etc. Go plow the fields and dance around totempoles.
>Advaita is not opposed to but is fundamentally in agreement with Christianity according to thinkers like, (Rene Guenon, Ananda Coomaraswamy, Frithjof Schuon, Bede Griffiths, Alphonse Levée etc), who are way above your pay-grade.

If you are against "exclusivism" then you should stop being an inferior hypocrite and applaud universalism or whatever demonised "syncretism" you've strawmanned here.

Read Here https://brahmabandhabupadhyay.blogspot.com/2012/08/tripersonalising-parabrahman.html?m=1

And book in pic. Related. Not that you will have the slightest grasp of the contents.

There is nothing wrong with you hating "exclusivism" by all means join a more "non-exclusive??" Faith I guess that is when you don't take it seriously... or universalise/syncretise... but oh I forgot you hate that..

Read this Shloka from the Bhagavad Gita:
>Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance-these qualities belong to those of demonic nature, O son of Prtha. 16.4

To correctly diagnose yourself.

>>20286959
>Futhermore, if Christianity is just a cope you use to belittle others for not having the same beliefs as you, you are acting in terribly bad faith.
I asked for your beliefs and what you posted was wrong about yout beliefs. The Corpus Hermeticum says we are here by the seven guardians which are sin. The Fall is sin. You don't even understand alpha but yet you claim the alphabet.

>>20286966
Damn dude you're a good therapist you should really consider a career in it since you seem to enjoy it more than making a coherent philosophy.

>>20286970
>I asked for your beliefs and what you posted was wrong about yout beliefs
No? When did I claim I was a Hermeticist? That is something you pulled out of your ass as response to my point about slave morality in Christianity

>>20286959
>Dionysus the Areopagite is literally just a neoplatonist affirming the Bible because it was illegal not to.
So was Palamas, and so on so forth, they constitute the Christian tradition all the same
>literally Just a Neoplatonist...
>intellectual honesty...
>becoming Hindus Becoming Christians
You have not the slightest clue when it comes to Tradition, we are beyond exoteric forms here..
Don't care enough to respond to the rest of your demoniacal historicist garble
>muh Subbvert!!
Go back to /pol/ Metaphysics is above your paygrade, I'm not trying to denigrate any tradition nor Syncretise any, I'm trying to show you that you have no argument beyond...

Muh History Muh Jew Muh Aryan.

>>20286708
Anyone who communes with the higher energies of God will be subject to shunning and hatred from others, who are below that level.

Jesus was killed for having direct communion with God, now you won't get killed, but you will be branded a madman, or a heretic or whatever else. These people are aware of that and carefully discern who they share these insights with.

That being said, you will never reach the level of spiritual development and connection with God that the Saints had, while being limited by dogma and what's "true Orthodoxy".

Almost every actual Saint, who directly communed with the Divine, spent most of his life isolated, in constant prayer and other spiritual practices and ascetic life.

>>20286959
>I would ask what utility you find in baptizing Shankara? Which side are you ultimately trying to subvert,
No such thing

>the Hindus into becoming Christian
Hahaha no, what a retard. I'm trying to show that you have no grounds to totally invalidate the Christian Metaphysical traditions when you have not the least understanding of them, I'm comparing them to Hindu Metaphysics for no other reason than to destroy this larpy
>Christianity has no Metaphysics dude...
It's just fake shit man...
I just don't like circlejerk deconstruction of other religions, grounded in pure sentiment and Secularism, you're equally opposed to the Hindu religion in my eyes.

>>20286993
>Tradition, we are beyond exoteric forms here
pretentious chattering; you being able to paraphrase a few 20th century writers whose books have same-day delivery on Amazon does not make you any more authoritative

>>20286959
I am not even really Christian regardless, I am more or less Hindu, you on the other hand are a total joke
>muh history
>christcucks destroyed my blood and soil materialism and science
Kike.

>>20286985
>>20286127

>>20287032
Attack the character, you have not the slightest metaphysical learning this why I can toy with you here, I am Not Christian,
In my eyes this "belonging to a religion" "converting to a religion" is a low iq western concept of religion.

KYS .

>>20287032
>pretentious chattering;
>same-day delivery on Amazon does not make you any more authoritative
Holy crap it's too easy. Christ is God.

>>20286699
Yes, but it's an incredibly hard Path. I've seen some of the ascetics there and they are so happy when someone visits them and like to talk to people. I also have to tell you that amongst them there are some mentally ill people as well.

>>20287045
>my eyes this "belonging to a religion" "converting to a religion" is a low iq western concept of religion.
Yikes IQ as idol. Repent

>>20287026
>when you have not the least understanding of them
I just disagree with your interpretation. You chalk this up to me not understanding it, which is dishonest. Or perhaps you just make no sense to begin with. The Christian missionaries and imperialists who have fought Hinduism for the last 500 years certainly didn't think such idolators were merely proto-Christian perennialists in need syncretism with the faith. This thought only occurs to the disinterested products of a secular culture for whom all belief is an anthropological curiousity to be reconciled into a framework

>>20285837
Can you recommend books about it? Or any other resources?

>>20287038
>>20287045
So once again, why are you baptizing Shankara as compatible with Christianity if you think belonging to an exoteric covenant religion is lowbrow? Is that to denigrate Vedanta or to make Christianity less smelly?

>>20286699
Pathetic go and preach the Gospels and feed the poor.

>>20287058
An actual good response for once thanks,
>mentally ill
There is no doubt, people who live in total ignorance and materialism, as is the modern standard of comfort and decadence, are arguably even shielded from various subtle possibilities and influences — out of pure ignorance, the Monks you're talking about, talk about "unceasing warfare" and the same thing is present from my experience with Sufis, the enemy of the spiritual life is Shaytan, it's all about staying on the path and never straying - No matter what.
Throughout history many deviants and various actors have also infiltrated these organisations, so there is no surprise there.
>when you see them
Are you in the Balkans? You're talking about Athos right?

>>20287055
I shall let Nietzsche respond to you
>Obviously the little community had not understood the most important thing, the exemplary way of his dying, the freedom, the superiority over every feeling of ressentiment:— an indication of how little they understood him at all! In fact, there was nothing Jesus could want from his death besides publicly giving the strongest test, the proof of his teaching [...] the veneration gone wild of these totally unhinged souls could no longer stand that evangelical granting of equal rights to everyone to be a child of God, as Jesus had taught: their revenge was to raise Jesus aloft in an extravagent manner, and cut themselves off from him [...] The One God and the One Son of God: both products of ressentiment

>>20287086
>shall
Really?

Your quote is projection from Nietzsche.
>the veneration gone wild of these totally unhinged souls could no longer stand that evangelical granting of equal rights to everyone to be a child of God, as Jesus had taught:
If you've read the Gospels then you've either misread this quote or them.

>>20287075
>less smelly
Shoo Ashura I am exposing your ineptitude and blind eastern bias — no true spiritual speaker discounts any knowldge he can get his hands on, which is near, be it Muslim, Christian, Hindu
Already responded
>>20287026
Timewasting demon-possesed trash.
Leave me alone.

The fact that you refer to the sensory organs in your reply, in such a "gross" way, proves beyond a doubt that you are demon-possesed.

Be gone.

>>20287043
Not me, I was responding to a later post ITT. I think that person dropped out after being asked who initiated him, since that's a dumb question

>>20287106
Let's be honest, there are no genuine initiates on /pol/ sans Guénonfag

>>20287085
To the Buddha Mara.

>>20287104
>no true spiritual speaker discounts any knowldge he can get his hands on,
Wow those goalposts shifted so hard they are in the parking lot outside and people are tossing beer cans through them. Sure, there is wisdom in a wide variety of texts, but that is exceptional and not a general rule. As Schopenhauer opined, a Spinoza or a Bruno would have had a better reception in India than in Europe. But that wasn't what you were advancing, it was that Christianity can/should be exegeted in terms of Advaitan metaphysics. Which is as much a conversion tactic as doing that with neoplatonism. So again I ask, what need have you of baptizing Shankara?

>>20287066
>I just disagree with your interpretation. You chalk this up to me not understanding it, which is dishonest. Or perhaps you just make no sense to begin with. The Christian missionaries and imperialists who have fought Hinduism for the last 500 years certainly didn't think such idolators were merely proto-Christian perennialists in need syncretism with the faith. This thought only occurs to the disinterested products of a secular culture for whom all belief is an anthropological curiousity to be reconciled into a framework
As I said you're a Non-Serious individual, you dont belong here talking about religion.
You're a HISTORICIST
If you don't understand what that means and the full implications of this anathema, then I don't wish to engage in any further squabbles.

Look on the bright side, shitposting the thread with these theories may have at least prevented one more New Age syncretic from being born.

>>20287109
Initiation is a stupid idea because it pre-supposes an original lineage founder.... who didn't need initiation. Anyone sufficiently competent should be able to achieve a mystical state, if they are just borrowing someone else's explanation of one that is no better than reading a text. That is not to say instruction and master-pupil relations are worthless, but this attachment to the "initiation" is a clear case of fingers pointed at the moon

>>20287131
>the full implications of this anathema
You only wish to jerk off your fellow concilatory scholastics like in the homosocial days of old, I understand clearly now. Have a nice day.

>>20287130
>need
LAST TIME: Primordial Wisdom
>beer can analogy
Don't care GTFO of this conversation
>conversation tactic
Need I repeat that I believe in no such thing, and indeed no such western conception of religion
>Schopenhauer
Do not care about your repertoire of Western pseudo-philosophers.
Guénon is King.
Eternally seethe.

>>20287152
>>20287075
Total faggots get out of the Tomberg thread once and for all Pseuds.

>>20287147
I agree Tomberg says the same thing.
>Just as the arcanum is superior to the secret, so is the mystery superior to the arcanum. The mystery is more than a stimulating “ferment”. It is a spiritual event comparable to physical birth or death. It is a change of the entire spiritual and psychic motivation, or a complete change of the plane of consciousness. The seven sacraments of the Church are the prismatic colours of the white light of one sole Mystery or Sacrament, known as that of the Second Birth, which the Master pointed out to Nicodemus in the nocturnal initiation conversation which He had with him. It is this which Christian Hermeticism understands by the Great Initiation.
>It goes without saying that nobody initiates anyone else, it we understand by “initiation” the Mystery of the Second Birth or the Great Sacrament. This Initiation is operative from above and has the value and the duration of eternity. The Initiator is above, and here below one meets only the fellow pupils; and they recognise each other by the fact that they “love one another” (cf. John xiii, 34–35). There are no longer any more “masters” because there is only one sole Master, who is the Initiator above. To be sure, there are always masters who teach their doctrines and also initiates who communicate some of the secrets which they possess to others who thus become in their turn the “initiates”—but all this has nothing to do with the Mystery of the Great Initiation.

>>20287167
Cont.
>It goes without saying that nobody initiates anyone else, it we understand by “initiation” the Mystery of the Second Birth or the Great Sacrament. This Initiation is operative from above and has the value and the duration of eternity. The Initiator is above, and here below one meets only the fellow pupils; and they recognise each other by the fact that they “love one another” (cf. John xiii, 34–35). There are no longer any more “masters” because there is only one sole Master, who is the Initiator above. To be sure, there are always masters who teach their doctrines and also initiates who communicate some of the secrets which they possess to others who thus become in their turn the “initiates”—but all this has nothing to do with the Mystery of the Great Initiation.
>For this reason Christian Hermeticism, in so far as it is a human concern, initiates no one. Amongst Christian Hermeticists nobody assumes for himself the title and the function of “initiator” or “master”. For all are fellow pupils and each is master of each in some respect—just as each is a pupil of each in some other respect. We cannot do better than to follow the example of St. Anthony the Great, who

"subjected himself in all sincerity to the pious men whom he visited and made it his endeavour to learn for his own benefit just how each was superior to him in zeal and ascetic practice. He observed the graciousness of one, the earnestness at prayer in another; studied the even temper of one and the kindheartedness of another; fixed his attention on the vigils kept by one and on the studies pursued by another; admired one for his patient endurance, another for his fasting and sleeping on the ground; watched closely this man’s meekness and the forebearance shown by another; and in one and all alike he marked especially devotion to Christ and the love they had for one another. Having thus taken his fill, he would return to his own place of asceticism. Then he assimilated in himself what he had obtained from each and devoted all his energies to realizing in himself the virtues of all. (St. Athanasius, The Life of Saint Anthony, ch. 4; trsl. R. T. Meyer, Westminster, 1950, p.21)"

>>20286172
Jesus himself physically beat the money changers in the Temple, what are you talking about?

>>20287167
>>20287147
Says the same thing:
Only with regard to the "Great Initiation" of course.

>>20287152
>concilatory scholastics like in the homosocial days of old
Unfathomably based. Thanks for the complement.

>>20286814
Where is this in the Bible?

>>20287167
>>20287177
Evola has a related point about how initiation is possible in the absence of a maintained tradition. It's obviously preferable to have a stable tradition or several routes to it like India has had in the past, and Europe has only had at times. But there are still routes open to wisdom and we should be reestablishing contact with Tradition, not just with traditions for the sake of tradition.

>>20285631
Guenon initially claimed that he was initiated during a seance by the ghost of a medieval templar.

>>20287189
It means you have no interest in people opposed to your ideas except to have them physically removed by the civil authorities. Without said authorities you are a eunuch

>>20287191
>Guenon initially claimed that he was initiated during a seance by the ghost of a medieval templar
Guénon claimed to be a reincarnated Templar (so I heard kek) and ultimately was a representive of OTR templars, Guénon was a Templar, and he came to restore initiatic channels between East and West,
Evola is correct on initiation, there is a Self-initiation but this is an entirely individual thing and is dependent upon "divine intervention," dreams have been consistently looked at from Aristotle etc. Before him and after him as a sort of Daemonic(Divine) intervention, (Good or bad) after becoming disillusioned with the "initiation" system, the rampant pseudo-initiations of today – not discount the few albeit inaccessible true initiations, just have resolved myself to the practical study of Dreams, "Dream Yoga," Entheogens, essentialy to invite the visitation of initiatic entities, for sufis Khidr coming into a dream and intiating them is common practice, before they sleep they repeat 1000s of some special dhikr and it changes their dreams, the study of dreams, interpretations etc. , was rampant in the Arabic/Greek/Latin/Vedic too (however I haven't looked into it)
Guénon thinks Sufism is totally legit, and I know sufis are doing these dream yogas, so that seems to be the path for the western man, and personally it has been the persistent form of initiation, how do you think historical figures like Plethon "self-proclaimed" Hellenist - received his inspiration, actually nevermind Plethon,
Did you know Proclus was healed in a dream and obviously "initiated" by Apollon? This is the reality of initiation in the west, getting initiated is Easy for people with aptitude, the problem is physically "re-establishing" lineages, and sects, the counter-initiation, anti-traditional forces of the West are literally crazy and satanic, this is why all genuine remaining esoteric lineages are completely hidden in the West. I'm still trying to figure it all out myself.

Got any thoughts on the matter?

>>20287185
Well "great initiation" is sufficiently vague enough as to allow you to make your self- or autodidactic realization more authoritative. At least you aren't throwing yourself behind someone else, since the "someone" is literally just 2deep4u personified

>>20287263
Guénon even acknowledged self-initiation also
>>20287246
Don't care about your "civility" bot.

>>20287263
I meant here I haven't looked into specifically Vedic Dream "sciences" I have looked into indo-tibetan kagyu lineage stuff so I doubt that it's different.

>>20287276
Oh I should clarify since you are an autistic retard, by civil I meant "military force wielded by or in extension of anointed royal authorities." Without this your closed hermeneutic resembles a fanfiction forum

>>20287263
Also "Dream initiation" is I guess only for the select few, "individualistic" more or less people too, which makes it harder to work with action-wise, I'm not too bothered by that though.

>>20287263
>the problem is physically "re-establishing" lineages, and sects,
The reason Christianity cannot do this is because it requires you affirm absurd historical events instead of, well, pursuing wisdom.

>>20287263
I would even argue that all the profound Christian mystics of the Western Tradition, monastics of today are receiving some sort of "self-initiation"
Virtual initiations and these sorts of other initiations which are supposed to transmit a spiritual influence are totally fine too of course.

>>20287308
No because of counter-initiation, rampant anti-tradition, have you been paying attention to the absolutely Satanic shit which takes place, obviously you are blind and ignorant I can truly feel the malevolence around western counter-initiatic centers which i have recognised, even when I go to specific natural "landmarks" I feel differences, this is not a schizo delusion surely.

Why do you keep responding to replying to posts which are not meant for you?

>>20287308
Not only this but you to are simply a by-product of this malevolent activity, muh History!!, the entire West is preparing itself for its ritual devourment, and you're a totally useful idiot.

Enough with you.

>>20287347
>everything i don't like is the devil
What a half-assed version of non-duality. Go join a monastery already

>>20287358
>muh ebil west
bayraktar bait

This destroys the Guenonians

>>20287370
And this

>>20287361
t. Learn "non-duality" from some new-age counter-initiation
Guénon said similar things, you have not the slightest clue about the world, I have seen yogis who've said that underground people rule the earth etc. And this is not about "fear" you total pasteurised spirituality useful idiot, it's about knowing the evil, this is why people like you are 100% under the influence of Satan, Demons, when you cannot even recognise the counter-initiatic forces at play.

>>20287374
>>20287370
Counter-tradition, I've read about these guys already, in essays which reviewed them and similar figures, obsessed .

>>20287374
Excerpt
https://www.viveleroy.fr/Qui-a-inspire-Rene-Guenon,105

>>20287380
Liar
Show me the rebuttals :)
There's NONE.

>>20287376
You are just smuggling Christianity into dharmic religion. That's all perennialism is. Where is evil in brahman or in the tathagatagarbha? You are the one who empowers it by assigning it a real existence

I wait for the day some metacognition becomes scientifically proven so we can finally put to bed the ebin miracle Jew myth. This thread is exemplary schizo-core.

>>20287376
>I have seen yogis who've said that underground people rule the earth etc
Take your meds

>>20287401
You'll be waiting a long time
https://youtu.be/w6GmCyKylTw
https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2011/05/mind-body-problem-roundup.html

>>20287401
We are dealing with people who believe he-said-she-said tier stories about sorcery prove that the sorceror was literally God himself. There's no evidence of anything that comes into play regarding what they believe or not

>>20286880
I'm glad to see someone have the same outlook as I do.

God reigns supreme, all religions and philosophies do their best to explain the Great Mystery to the common man.

I came to Christianity trough Yogic science and 4th Way teachings. Real Yoga and Christianity are fully compatible and inclusive.

What are your favorite books on these subjects?

>>20287374
http://www.regnabit.com/EN/member/files/download.php?ID=205&enabled=1

Daily reminder that Guenon is a Satanist freemason who brings an initiation whose spiritual influence is angelic (luciferian) and who literally inverts Catholic principles by reversing act and potency and replacing the Thomistic Actus Purus by the indefinite "Total Possibility"

>>20286932
I didn't post any pictures, but I agree with the person you quoted me with.

>>20287424
>the indefinite "Total Possibility"
Well shit, is anyone working on a Deleuze/Guenon synthesis?

>>20287398
>evil Brahman
Thinks I mean something like that, to absolutise so to speak evil, when I'm talking about forces of this world, all very much expected of the Age of Iron / Kali Yuga.
Stop pretending to be a "dharmist"
Metaphysical shudra neo-pagan fueled by pure sentimentalism.

>>20287424
Daily reminder that this Guenon demon
I) never really talks about Jesus
II) totally twists the cross (by making it a kind of hypercube, LOL??)
III) asserts the existence of a primitive esoteric Christianity when it makes no fucking sense and we have NO trace of it even in the direct disciples of the Apostles (read Borella, "Esotérisme guénonien et mystère Chretien" on this
IV) Advocates the original hermaphrodite like all Satanists

This nigger has literally never understood anything about Catholicism

>>20287437
>accuse others of pure sentimentalism
>while constantly bleating about evil demons and devils

>>20287424
>Guénon inverts thomistic principles.
How will I ever recover? Catholics have tried time and time again to refuse Guénon, whatever makes you sleep better at night.

>>20287448
>when it makes no fucking sense and we have NO trace of it
Wow just like most things in this fucking thread

>>20287449
t. Denying counter-initiation, anti-traditional forces, evil in the world etc.
Blind and dumb.
You're not a Traditionalist/Guénonian so I already discount pretty much everything you say.

>>20287452
>Catholics have tried time and time again to refuse Guénon
Already done

>>20287370
>>20287374

Good luck explaining to me how a metaphysics that places absolute potency before pure act is coherent, you schizo

>>20287419
>"There are natural human traditions before Babel!"

Holy shit is this the level of the Guenonians? LMAO

GUENON BTFO'D.
GUENONIANS WILL SEETHE.

>>20287505

>>20287459
You sound exactly like an early christian shrieking at the Roman empire for having the audacity to treat you like any other conquered people

>>20287524
Doesn't make sense.
>>20287505
>>20287511
I can't respond

>>20287085
Yes, I'm in the Balkans and I'm talking about Athos. You seem like a man that has a higher understanding and doesn't cling to a false identity, like most religious people do.

As for the mentally ill, I'm not talking about the people who were victims of the forces that attack the ascetic, but some of them joined monkhood while mentally ill and it only got worse. It's common amongst hermits.

I've spent a couple days living monk-like, it would be extremely difficult to live like that full time, especially as a hermit. That being said, I still think it's necessary to have a longer period of solitude to burst trough spiritual plateaus, so to say.

>>20287554
Everything you don't like is satan and demons, or rather "counter-initiation." Both are cases of someone experiencing the affects of something stronger and resorting to the cope that what causes one discomfort must be evil. Thankfully, since what you aren't is evil, you are by definition good, which leads to the obnoxiously unwarranted smug posturing displayed here and presumably elsewhere on the subject you fancy yourself an expert in

Trying to salvage the thread, which arcana spoke most deeply to you?

>>20285626
shut up mate

>>20285723
>the existence of a master-to-disciple transmission, and consequently the existence of a method based on acquired notions that must be put into practice by following rigorously the injunctions of the master
I've recently looked into some saints of Christianity from time of undivided church. I noticed that stories about their lives seem to describe similar transmission of teaching similar to tantric buddhism. Found it quite fascinating.

>>20287591
I’ll try to get this in… Emperor as obedience, the whole notion of obedience/poverty/chastity that he lays out in those cards and keeps revisiting.
Analysis of Buddhism in the Hermit, I had practiced and read tons of suttas and sutras before then but found it pretty convincing for where I was at that time.
Wheel of Fortune has some pretty interesting bits. Discussion of continuity in the Star really spoke to me since I had kids around the time I was working through it.
Tower of Babel discussions of the “great” sins and reincarnation was super interesting.
Comments on the rosary at the end really spoke to me and felt like coming back to real life after spending time on a mountain top.
Comments on false Holy Spirit in the World have been really helpful since I’ve like seen some shit bro.
The whole book was really full of “holy shit” passages, though. Really insightful writer who has studied a ton of subjects.

https://www.geopolitika.ru/en/article/counter-initiation-critical-remarks-some-aspects-doctrine-rene-guenon
Guenon is a fraud

>>20287449
Every tradition has teachings about evil spirits

>>20287308
Christ is risen. Whether or not you acknowledge that fact doesn't make it any less true. Go ahead and say "prove it" and show there is no functional difference between you and a fedora tipper.

>>20287068
Valentinian Christianity by Geoffery Smith. Theres a nice video on it on the Esoterica youtube channel too.

>>20288006
Wow you really owned me, anon from two decades ago. I guess I have to believe now the very specific claim that Jesus is Yahweh

>>20287990
Calling opponents agents of evil is an extremely weak thing to fall back on when you are criticized, and of course does nothing to dispute the criticism but merely signals to your co-religionists that the opponent shouldn't be engaged with

>>20288032
Yep and that Shankara was wrong and Non-dualism is obviously an erroneus theology.

>>20288045
Agreed. Only the people of Roman Palestine and those who agree with them on all matters will be saved from the world God created

Sure didn't take long for this thread to attract """people""" who've never read the book in OP or the Bible yet insist on shitting up this thread. I was going to link the posts, but I don't want to get banned for mass reply spam since there were so many of them who obviously never read either.

>>20285247
I actually read another work of the author, Valentin Tomberg, entitled Anthroposophical Studies of the Apocalypse of St. John. I think talking about orthodoxy and heterodoxy, or heresy and dogma, as applied to a specific time-and-societally-bound sect or interpretation of Christianity, misses the entire point. Christ was an exemplar of the potential of the human being to commune with God and enter into experiences of God, and, in this manner, was the archetypal human being. Hence, this is why, apparently anachronistically, “Christianity” (the presence of Christ) can be found in as apparently divergent traditions as Hermeticism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Islamic Sufism, Hinduism and the various schools of yoga, and so forth, as in the analyses Tomberg makes. The baffling multiplicity of world religions and sects — to give the example of Christianity, this one tradition splitting up into the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, various modern forms of Protestantism, etc., can be compared to white light broken up by a crystal into different colors. Studying the different colors of the rainbow and making wonderful kaleidoscopic New-Age-style Jackson-Pollock paintings out of them in some type of syncretism — Guenon/Tomberg/Huxley/Theosophy-style — can be useful as a primer to considering the existence of the primordial white light, and as a sort of consecration of one’s intellect to the sacred, but, to continue the metaphor, can actually be a glorious intellectual distraction from the original light if taken too far and made an end in itself. This is how I view it.

>>20285296
You mean this is the christian magic book I've been looking for?

>>20288143
There's another one

Post book and bookmark, prove you read or fucking kill yourself.

>>20288118
(Continued)
Tomberg himself makes this point in the Anthroposophical Studies of the Apocalypse of St. John with his analysis of the life and teachings of Appollonius of Tyana, the Greek Neopythagorean sage who learned from as apparently diverse sources as Egyptian, Chaldean, Pythagorean, Indian wisdom, etc., and became a renowned sage. Tomberg talks about the divine irony of Apollonius overlooking what Tomberg considers the most spiritually significant event of Appollonius’s day and age — the life, teachings, death and resurrection of Christ Himself! If memory serves me right, Tomberg points out that Christ was the very living embodiment and exemplar of the vast occult wisdom Apollonius of Tyana had gathered, and portrays this as a great historical irony.

>>20288067
The "christer" Jew will invade any Christian thread and attempt to derail it unfortunately.

>>20288118
Is that work from his Steiner days? He was part of that scene but later gave it up I think.
Lazarus, Come Forth! is his sequel to Meditations. I have a copy but haven’t read it yet, my to-read list is woefully big and I have three kids.
I know it’s totally lame but I’m believing less and less in the whole “it’s all the same” stuff. I am of the opinion that Christianity is genuinely unique and not just rehashed Mithraism or whatever. I keep going back to Ezekiel 8 (yes, using the Bible as my proof that the Bible is correct). That’s the chapter where they open up the temple to display the blasphemies. There’s the cabal of atheist black magicians, the “Jesus is just another Tammuz” coven and finally the sun worshippers.

>>20288143
It’s the book to convert magicians to Christianity.

>>20285661
Author is a retard who dismisses Hans urs von Balthasar, probably the second greatest Catholic Theologian of the 20th Century after Garrigou LaGrange, as being a heretic.

>Whilst Balthasar’s influence on post-Conciliar theology — and on Pope “Emeritus” Benedict XVI personally[5] — can hardly be understated, most well-read traditional Catholics are already wise to his heterodox thinking, and do not claim him as one of their own.

>>20288170
Have a (You), dumb christer anti-semite. Remind me, who is it that is "King"?
>>20286147

>>20288181
I think there is a definite difference between valid and invalid lines of initiation, what you could call perverted paganism and even idolatry and black magic, and genuine adherence to Logos. And yes, it is, I believe, from his Steiner days, references to the occultist Rudolf Steiner being a big part of the work. The way I view it is not quite in the “Jesus is another Tammuz” vein, or finding links between the rites and symbolism of Roman Catholic Church and Mithraism, for instance (which, if anything, rather backs up my point that time-and-society religious sects can be rather subjective and corrupted interpretations of original religious truths and divine revelations), but rather, the authentic presence of Christ (Who, as in the famous opening of the Book of John, was the Word made flesh, the embodiment of Logos) in varying authentic lines of initiation. To stay in the realm of speaking in terms of varying religious sects, this interpretation has the closest similarity, perhaps, to some of the most sophisticated Hindu schools of thought and the teachings and beliefs of highly respected Hindu sages, who would be prone to readily accept Christ as a God-conscious man, a yogi and a sage who had attained conscious Union with Brahman. As in “The Holy Science,” by Swami Sri Yukteswar, being an analysis of yogic teachings with frequent references to the New Testament and various sayings of Christ.

>>20288226
Christ, the man who said
>You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
That's referring to (((You)))

>>20287066
>The Christian missionaries and imperialists
Pajeet seething his country got subjugated by a bunch of Brits for over a century?

>>20288249
Not an Indian but check out who the Labour mayor of London is, who are in major positions in the Conservative administration, etc. You done goofed in any case.
>>20288242
As far as I can tell this is two branches of the same family arguing with one another

>>20288230
I was in some other thread where some magician was talking about archetypes and shit and how Jesus was mostly mythical but maybe you can get past that to the impersonal unknowable true divine such and such. I think this is the “other” form of sun worship (Christmas is on the 25th because you are closet pagans is the more obvious take). Super philosophical, super abstracted out and willing to go to any length not to just accept Jesus and get to call the almighty Abba.
Talking about Christ showing some leg here or flashing a titty there and thereby lending legitimacy to an initiatory line is still kind of misguided. If Jesus is the Christ, if He can save you from your fucked up fallen state, if He can give you life, life eternal and in abundance, why would you still need to go looking here and there for some more obfuscated form? I don’t get it. But like I said I’m boring as shit and totally okay with it.
> who would be prone to readily accept Christ as a God-conscious man, a yogi and a sage who had attained conscious Union with Brahman
That’s what I’m talking about. God became a man to fix shit and publicly showed a bunch of witnesses that he was doing it and it still isn’t good enough. I dunno. I could talk all day but I would just be repeating myself and we’re at the bump limit.

>>20288316
If one finds abundant water in a well, one doesn’t need to go to many wells to get water from all of them to satiate one’s thirst ... even if different wells can equally satiate one’s thirst, one can simply remain at the well one has found and drink the water to quench one’s thirst — assuming one is genuinely thirsty and has genuinely found the well. The water and the satiation of thirst is the same in each instance. Hence, we’re not in complete disagreement as disagreement is normally thought of, but nor are we in perfect agreement.

>>20288350
(The water in this case being Christ. Hence, to repeat, we’re not in complete disagreement. An authentic Christian — assuming they are a really authentic Christian — and the word “authentic” would be the key here — is in a better state than the dilettante New-Ager. On the other hand, and apparently rather paradoxically, maybe a false Christian is in a worse state than an extremely authentic and devoted Theosophist who accepts Christ as an incarnation of God — that’s just how I view it.)

>>20288379
I’m not trying to super disagree or be a jerk on the internet. Yeah, I see the overlap. I also think that there are axioms and methods baked into Christianity that can result in the wells pulling from different pockets of water table when you gloss over them.
It should really be true that the way is easy and the yoke is light. Faith, humility, obedience are super important because this opens the way for other power, to borrow pure land terminology. Some of the “almost similar” paths rely too much on self power or on salvation via knowledge rather than faith.
The final destination can also be different. Christianity ultimately has very personal elements for the redeemer and the redeemed. Buddhism definitely contrasts in this regard. Hinduism, I don’t claim to know.
I gotta walk my dog, all the best and hope you get the last word in before this thread archives.

>>20288458
>I gotta walk my dog, all the best and hope you get the last word in before this thread archives.
Thanks for the kind wishes anon, best of luck to you too and enjoy the walk. Thread is gonna archive soon as you rightly point out anyway so now probably isn’t the best time for a more in-depth discussion of theology unfortunately kek. I even have my copy of Tomberg’s book and could’ve brought up quotes and illustrations and analyses I’ve liked... oh well!

>>20286370

No, the collapse of Orthodox power happened in 1453.

The Renaissance is a consequence of the Western side of the schism rejecting Orthodox Christianity, and degenerating into an intellectual culture incapable of contemplating anything except for matter and how to manipulate it.

>>20286374

>The idea of the great schism is anachronistic
>The renaissance itself was not bad
>If you are gonna insult me again just refrain from it for your own spiritual benefit.

Stop spreading blatant modernist Anti-Christ lies for your own spiritual benefit, you virtue signalling modernist jew-jesuit shill.

>>20287147

The original lineage founder is God, and it's obvious that God doesn't need initiation, you silly goose.