/lit/ - Literature

Thread question:
What's the last book you read that straight up had a dragon slaying in it? What was the book? Did you feel cheated out of a more meaningful conflict, maybe addressing the dragon's home life which lead to it being a threat that needed slaying and possibly some kind of Dragon Lives Matter movement following its death? Is the need to bring real life issues into fantasy settings a good thing and a sign of more mature storytelling or is it just pandering?

I've been procrastinating for 2 years. Help me.

>>20267063
>What's the last book you read that straight up had a dragon slaying in it?
The Hobbit
>Did you feel cheated out of a more meaningful conflict
Yeah man I found Bilbo’s ring really interesting like how did it end up with Gollum but it’s never developed. Oh well book didn’t tell us what the Necromancer was all about so it’s not alone in that regard.

>>20267085
Okay, here's a prompt. I want 500 more words:
>It took more than a sword to penetrate the dragon’s scales and tough hide. What was needed was…

>There has never been a fiction about Cavemen and their every day struggles

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DRlv01MC7xhMr06IDZ-Y1BBDQkuc7cdsb34GJe5JFwU/edit?usp=sharing

Smut scene begins any second now... 50+ pages of build up.

>>20267108
a weapon that turned good men bad, and bad men good. One that felled kingdoms and ended entire dynasties. She thought hard. The creek flowed by, and the bass jumped out of the stream. Four times she tried fighting the dragon, she could not fail the fifth time. She reached into his pocket and found his answer. Inside the locket was the weapon that could slay the dragon.

Her pussy.

>outlining
>set up for a major conflict to erupt halfway through the story
>suddenly realize I lack half a book
Surely character/setting establishment isn't gripping enough for the first half of a narrative?

>>20267125
There have been many. This series by itself has 6 doorstopper length books in it. Although a lot of it is just the writer using the story as an excuse to describe her own sexual fantasies of men with big cocks. Book 3 is about a tribe of mammoth hunters who for some reason have a black man with them and the MC has sex with him because of his huge cock.
But there you go.

>>20267175
Have them search for treasure. It's an understandable, universally relatable motive that can bring together people from vastly different backgrounds and moral/religious/philosophical systems.

>>20267175
There's no buildup to the conflict erupting halfway through? No raising tensions? A cold war people are fearful will turn hot? Weave that into the setting and character establishing and everything should be fine.

>>20267125

>>20267191
>>20267250
Well fuck me.

>>20266953
Mafiosa are brutal with their enemies and generous with their friends and loved ones. Start there.

>>20267063
Can't remember the last time I read about a dragon slaying, but I once wrote an RPG scenario with a medium-sized dragon who, upon further investigation, turned out to be the squeaky, spoiled pet of a titan.
If the PCs injured or killed the dragon, they brought down the wrath of the titan; if they left the dragon alone, they had a chance of making the titan an ally.

>>20267150
incel

>>20267209
The idea is that the characters live in an underground society which has been losing territory above for decades. The focus cast is in military training for the earlier parts of the narrative before the outbreak of an attack.

Of course you're correct that building tension mixed with character/setting is a good foundation to start from, I just worry at how gripping this will be for the reader. Though, maybe such a concern is just insecurity at play.

>>20267125
Just hold tight I'm working on a late Neolithic/copper age novel. Depending how purist you are I think it applies, my emphasis is solely on the lives of one family and their pastoralist community. Pure historical fiction based on fairly extensive and ongoing research (you may have seen me rambling about horse cock cults in other threads).

Society is recognizable but it is a challenge (and limiting to language/metaphors) since so many ideas or common household items/activities aren't invented yet.

>>20267330
Don't get mad that a girl offering her pussy to the dragon is the most logical thing to do. And best seller. Girls love shit like that.

For the life of me, why can't I just commit to a full-length story? The only things I can ever finish are 1-2k word long drabbles. I'm stuck in this perpetual cycle of trying to write something, getting burnt out, starting over. How do you look past the self-doubt and just write the damn thing?

>>20267047
>finally done with my story after 4 long years
>decide to sit and read it all
>most things i introduced or hinted at in the beginning of the story were completely retconned later or i forgot about them

>>20267479
Cut out those early references and change them to be about things that crop up later, then? See how easily you can retrofit things.

>>20267472
Write despite the self-doubt. Just write.

>>20267479
If you can come up with a clever way to explain the retconning, it might come across as artistic misdirection!
They'll think you're a genius!

>>20267472
Consider the Decameron/Canterbury Tales model.

>>20267472
What sometimes works for me is writing without an ending in mind. With no destination I just keep going.

>>20267472
Be a short story writer where you reuse the same characters over and over again, and loosely connect it with the other stories. Then you'll eventually have a novel!

>>20267479
That's why it's important to outline

>>20267479
Plan, plan, PLAN

>>20267472
In the first youtube playlist you can see an author going at it all the way through the writing process. Hope that helps.

I finished reading Terry Pratchett Hogfather. There are two quotes from that book i was familiar with, one about pic related the other one:
>Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape...(it goes on)
In the book i read neither of these fragments were present and i'm very confused. I did some digging but i can't find any info about these quotes. Help. Did i pick up some weird different edition of Hogfather? Were Quotes never there?

>>20267666
You are in the wrong general, man. >>20264867

>>20267681
deepest apologies and thank you

>>20267666
Thanks for reminding me about The Hogfather, Satan. Maybe you should consider watching the movie version.

>>20267630
But like if I plan then I lose interest in the story and I want to discover it while I write

>>20267697
Then plan only an event to write towards, and discover along the way to that event.

>>20267063
My next chapter introduces a character who's called Dragonslayer, earned for slaying a dragon, but no actual dragonslaying occurs on-screen, ever.

>>20267697
>discovery writing
If you're writing poetry, this is okay. If you're trying to tell a story, you're NGMI

>>20267175
>Surely character/setting establishment isn't gripping enough for the first half of a narrative?
It depends on the future story. If the tale is ebin like Karamazov/a long series, then you need as much background as possible. Like the first 3 episodes of a multi-season TV show setting up the real story to come. If it's a single book story, get that done in two chapters and move on.

>>20267721
>the dragon is really a very loud angry crazy annoying woman
>he slayed the dragon by taming the dragon with his dick
Yes.

>>20267746
He would be called Shrewslayer, in that case.

>>20267730
The plan is for more than one. The question of how to measure out the pacing within one story is a bit elusive though. Rule of thumb is always to lead with a strong hook and clear direction, no?

Currently writing a story wherein a human and dragon become friends, been working on it since March.

>>20267726
Doesn’t Stephen King famously not plan?
Were any of the classic writers known to outline or did they “pants” it?

>>20267047
There's two dragons in my story. Both are assholes, but they have different ways of going about it. One is a genocidal maniac who just fucking obliterates entire cities through sheer power, and is inspired by western dragons. The other is a weaker and more manipulative sort who just fucks people over, inspired by eastern dragons.

>>20267595
That's how I wrote my first novel.
Now I'm writing my second, and haven't needed that crutch.
Who knew practice was the key? ;-)

>>20267721
So, literally the king in the movie "Dragonslayer"?

>>20267692
NP; I enjoyed downloading your supplied meme image.

>>20267809
"Plan"
Having a short list of benchmarks for the story and then connecting them, dropping some, reworking them, doesn't really constitute a plan. Dickens, I would imagine, pants-ed his novels even if he undoubtedly had a larger framework he was working within for each.

>>20267809
Stephen King is a hack.
A highly popular and successful writer, granted, but still a hack.
He's the reason I avoid pointless, long-winded descriptions in my work.
Here's an example of what I mean, from an upcoming release of mine:

The rolling hills were flush with saguaro cactus, sage brush, yucca trees, and several splashes of wildflowers, nestled between large granite boulders. A hawk circled lazily in the sky, looking for jackrabbits that lacked the common sense to stay out of sight. Lines of natural sandstone slabs jutted out from eroded portions of the mountainside. A pine bush swayed lazily in the wind, its branches covered with bright blue berries.
Richard stopped himself. No one in the world wanted to hear a thorough description of a boring desert mountain landscape, least of all him. He focused and continued his hike.

>>20267822
>So, literally the king in the movie "Dragonslayer"?
I've never seen the movie but reading the synopsis now, no. The guy was involved in slaying a dragon, and while there were others helping with it, he legitimately earned the acclaim for the deed. His valor isn't in question. However, for the scene in question where the character is introduced, the dragonslaying event occurred a few years ago. And no dragonslaying will occur after.

>>20267842
Are there a lot of 4th wall breaks in your story or is this a one-off?

>>20267842
But I liked it.

>>20267773
I don't see why not. But "strong hook" doesn't have a set location in a story. It could be the first sentence, the first paragraph, half a chapter later, etc. My first inciting incident doesn't show up for 2.5 chapters and the real kickoff for the story doesn't show up until midway through book 2 (there are 7 books planned). But all along the way are inciting incidents that build reasons for character behavior, developing reactions and instincts which will characterize later plot events and drive conflict. That in itself, as long as the events are exciting enough, can be mini hooks leading up to your big one. Now instead of Bob meets Jane and they have a romance, you learn all about Bob until you meet Jane, and for every conflict they have, you understand Bob thoroughly but Jane is a mystery that Bob uncovers with you. I find that to be a good approach.

>>20267809
You do know Stephen King is infamous for how bad his endings are, right? And that most people who buy his books never finish them?

>>20267932
Survivorship bias, an author with a strong middle and weak endings can find an audience, authors with strong endings but weak middles don’t get published. It’s a market reality not really up for debate. If discovery writing helps you nail that middle go for it.

>>20267878
Are we talking about the same movie?
1981's Dragonslayer ends with the king taking credit for the young wizard's actions.

>>20267888
There are several borderline fourth wall breaks, but I try to keep them subtle.
In another scene, a seer/medium type avoids answering a question, thusly:

"That would be a whole other, very long, story."
She turned to look at Richard, her eyes twinkling. "Also, it's not really in the detective genre."
Richard threw his hands in the air. "Neither was this entire discussion."
She shrugged. "Too late now!"

In the part I'm about to write (last chapter! W00t!), the detective pines that it was such a wild story, and he wants to tell someone about it. One of the cops suggests writing a novel; after a pregnant pause, they all burst out laughing. They say no one would believe such a story, and even if they did, no one would want to read about it.

Subtlety!

>>20267997
>Are we talking about the same movie?
>1981's Dragonslayer ends with the king taking credit for the young wizard's actions.
We are. So, like I said, the guy credited with being the Dragonslayer actually slew the dragon. He didn't steal it from someone else. His valor isn't in question. Sure, he didn't do it alone, but even among the people who were with him at the time they agree he deserves the credit for the kill.

>>20267997
>One of the cops suggests writing a novel; after a pregnant pause, they all burst out laughing. They say no one would believe such a story, and even if they did, no one would want to read about it.
They should burst out laughing and say that he should try and make a movie instead because no one reads books.

>>20267479
What i do is make a list as i'm going of all the plotpoints that are unfinished or don't make sense.
Then i go back and edit. Sure it may be anal retentive, but its a hell of a lot more creative then making flow sharts ,story boards and flash tards.

>>20268053
Whatever, dude.
I'm talking about the part from 1:43:40 to 1:44:45.
The priest thanks the Lord, then the king shows up and puts a sword tip into the dragon's destroyed carcass.
Then Horsrik yells "All hail Casiodorus Rex, dragonslayer!"
You must be watching a different movie.

>>20268240
Do you have learning difficulties? I am saying that what happens in my book is explicitly not what happens in the movie dragonslayer. The Dragonslayer in my book actually is responsible for slaying the dragon unlike that fraud king.

>>20268262
Ah. My mistake.
I'm usually zonked on Saturday mornings.
I'm surprised to show any sign of coherency at all.

>>20267063
Glaurung from Children of Hurin. Pure malice made flesh. How can anyone want to have a Dragon Lives Matter after such a tyrant wrecks an Elven Kingdom and ruins the lives of two core characters? As for the dragon removing meaning, I actually found it added greatly. Morgoth is too far an antagonist, so having a dragon actually interact and taunt with the heroes added tension and stakes beyond what Morgoth could provide.

On the topic of dragon slaying, I found the fights with dragons in Bakker's works to be really refreshing. For once I actually felt terror at facing the dragon. And at another point the "hero" that stands up to the dragon is promptly swallowed, a nice deconstructive twist.

>>20267047
How unforgivably cringe would it be to put this:

>It's not very good. The main character is pretentious, but not in a self aware kind of way. The love interest is beautiful and vapid. The whole thing is an insiped commentary on personal identity, self discovery and contemperary romance. One of the million attempts to replicate Catcher in the Rye, but like, as a metaphor. The existential ennui of Nachkriegszeit literature, a lá late twenties bourgies that knew a couple junkies, but were never touched by the desperation that made them.

into my story? I feel like if I'm not careful then this would be painfully un-self-aware, and I'm not sure how to avoid that...

Why the fuck is there an “anime writing” section in the OP? This general is pathetic.

>>20268343
You've given me no context so I don't know whether it's a commentary by an editor, a mention by an uneducated friend, etc. I also don't buy the whole "cringe" in writing that much. The only real cringe is bad prose.

>>20268075
I like it! I think I'll add that.

>>20268420
Because it's popular.
No need to jump to conclusions.

>>20268420
>haven't read the op in months
>click on the anime writing video
So is being a lesbian a requirement for booktubers because goddamn they all seem to be its uncanny. Straight women actually write books and dykes start youtube channels.

>>20268551
and that's not even getting into the sanpaku eyes that bitch has going

>some sf world building I wrote today

From the earliest cycles the moon’s stations at L5 were the processing center for the flood of refugees out of G's grasp. An initial anarchic collective of masses cowering in deep caves trying to stay alive without a biosphere quickly got over their fear of G and chose to build their own Gship, this time out of the celestial body itself. Born the same year as G, Moon started like most Sol Union sovereignties, a remorseful gship living inside its crust Unlike most other planets, ships and stations in Sol, Moon's identity as the release valve for Earth’s pressure cooker society, continued and intensified. After achieving post-scarcity through the judicious collection of He3 and the creation of a blackhole-fusion engine deep in the moon’s core the people and their ship developed its own unique political economy to care for all who gently bumped onto its dusty surface. Fully Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism on the Moon, was their alternative to the rapacious greed of Earth and the utilitarian techno-capitalism that was embraced by the Sol Union gas giants. Instead the moon eschewed all militarism, technological development, economic dynamism or diplomacy. Even as a nominal member of the Sol Union it maintained strict neutrality between it and Earth. Glous, as yet another refugee tossed from a cab, was processed, and dropped into a class 1-xb welcoming chamber. He immediately noted he was being held in the very light local gravity. A point driven home by his slow motion bump into a pile of floating pillows, aerosolized drugs and consensually, and moderately tranquilized young moon women. Glous sighed, he had avoided ending up here, what in his mind was the ass end of the gutter to which only the most rotten offal of both diverging civilisations oozed into.

What happened to the critique threads?

>>20268616
What’s the point? Nobody writes.

>>20268635
I thought this was intended as a workshop board like /ic/ is for drawing. Wish it actually was.

>>20268616
Post something and we'll critique it.
Be forewarned, however...we might declare you an idiot. 4channers are like that.

>>20268677
I’ve never seen anyone declared an idiot. Now, nigger or faggot is a different story.

>>20268677
When I finish the first draft and the first edit of my short story.

>>20268754
>nigger
>faggot
I was being polite.

>>20268616
>>20268672
Critique threads died because they were filled with people whining, humblebragging, and bitching. Eventually it got folded into /wg/ where now you can do more than just post a piece or give critiques. As an upside, a lot of the poor quality in the critique threads went away.

>check my wordcount
>36666
Wow, that's a lot of sixes.

>>20267191
The first one is okay because it actually had neandertals and humans interacting. The other ones are basically chicklit for reasons you already stated.
>muh black cock
You fixate on weird shit m8. Why would a dude read this series?

>>20268825
>I was being polite.
Stop being such a faggot then, nigger.

Does anyone here write anything OTHER than fantasy and swordshit? I come in here occassionally to see whats going on and I swear it's the same 3 fucking people peddling their regurgitated stories about "muh western isekai" and "edgelord protag huehue" sprinkled with the shit corn writing of a pretentious pseudo-philosopher that makes zero sense. All I can do is sit back and laugh when you gigafags claim you've been working on your stories for years. I swear to God it's all so tiring to sift through.

>>20269412
Then show us how it's done.
It's easy to complain about the writing of others, but much more difficult to demonstrate something better.

How to write litfic?

>>20269412
I'm working on a historical fiction series. I just finished a farce comedy that I'm dying over trying to get a title for. It's the last thing I need before getting a cover and starting the publishing process.

>>20269412
What's wrong with sword fantasy shit

>>20269451
This mindset is why you'll never sell. Do you really think that the majority of people who read books are also authors? That's like buying a burger at a hole in the wall and it ends up being shitty and undercooked, then having the manager get all mad and claim that you can't cook better and shieeet. I didn't come here to fire up a grill, I came here to eat a burger. Why shouldn't I just go up to the street to my local McDonalds? It's basic but at least it's a proven 5/10 to sit down with and enjoy. Ronald McDonald isn't shilling his shit nuburger and fake ass Gordon Ramsey sauce, calling Burger King a hack and then proceeding to try and own them with their own soggy cold slop.
>>20269470
What's the comedy about? I like surrealist types.
>>20269474
Nothing, but god damn if I haven't seen chuds huffing their own jenkem about their generic "Chronicles of Blahblahblahblah" #9104917401.

Gentlemen, my novel is nearing completion, I'm midway through the climax and suspect I'll be done after another writing session or two. Of course, rewrites and rereads will take sometime and it'll be good to take a break between then and now. But I'm nearly there. 600 pages and I'm proud of what I've written. The question becomes what to do with my writing when all is said and done. I'm naturally cynical and expect to be crushed by traditional publishing for being an outsider with a 300k word epic. Then I wonder if vanity publishing is actually worth its salt and if I should just settle for amazon. I really want to be read. I yearn so much for my work to be read by other people. Is it worth spending the money I've saved up on this? Is the 4chan ad meme worth it or would it be in poor taste somehow? This really is the thing I live for in life.

>>20269571
>300k epic
what genre, sci-fi or fantasy, I assume?

>>20269513
>food analogy
fat fuck

>>20269513
It is surrealist, actually. A bowling technician gets wrongly profiled as a galactic warlord and gets targeted by an interstellar crime syndicate. He challenges them to a bowling tournament and shenanigans ensue.

>>20269513
In other words, you can't show us how it's done, and despite this being a thread about WRITING, you're here for some reason.

>>20269571
No agent will take a deal for something 300k words long, but 100k ‘with series potential’ is something you can query as long as it is fantasy or sci-fi as those are expected to be longer.

>>20269580
I'm hesitant to say fantasy but there's a lot of Lord of the Rings-esque traveling. It's set in a universe similar to 1950s Cold War Germany. I routinely, heavily imply fantastical elements have once existed but have long shriveled and faded due to the world being increasingly industrialized.

>>20269595
>needs a title
I suppose this one is too obvious, but how about Kingpin. Or maybe:
Strike Out
Hook Shot the Moon

>>20269571
Hopefully you can split it into 3-4 volumes?
Hopefully you have enough internal cliffhangers to do that?

>>20269595
Lord Of The Lawless Lanes?

>>20269621
Well the relevance of genre is what agents you’ll be querying and if you can call it fantasy you can get away with a longer length as a first time author(up to like 110k words).

>>20269621
300k is simply outside the realm of trad publishing, sorry to say. My recommendation is start releasing on Scribblehub or Royal road and use the time to edit and use those people as beta readers. Maybe twice a week or once every 5 days, or once a week it all depends on your schedule. I know you want to plop it all down but the reality is you're going to need to spend more time editing than you did drafting. Once your story is out there and it all done then move it to kindle and see if you can get any of those readers to write reviews for you.

>>20269627
Well, I was inspired by my read of The Godfather during my early writing of it. As such I've split the beast into "six books" but I'm rather attached to this being a whole, completed piece. Plus two of the books within it are just the perspectives of two secondary characters. I suppose if I were given a book deal, which I doubt, I could see it being split into two halves.

>>20269654
Well if you want this but also be read you’ll have to be really really confident that delivering your product this way is worth it and go balls to the wall with marketing(you will still be outmatched by trad publishers every step of the way in that). Two million booksget (self)published every year anon. Two million.

>>20269625
>>20269635
The closest one I've liked is "Splits" but that doesn't capture the entirety of the book, which is really just a silly romp and splits is a very broad term that can be buried in a search. Some other ones I've liked are "Strike! The (mc name) Experience", The Lanes, and On the Approach. I'm also realizing if I pick any of these, I'm doxxable, but I'll take that chance.

>>20269680
Light Year Lanes, maybe? I figure if you're playing up the absurdity, going for a B-movie-style title can work too.

>>20269697
>B-movie-style
Then it'd have to be Bowling Vixens Of The Bordello Planet.

>>20269680
Gutter Balls

>>20268589
Too much info dumping. I have zero idea what the fuck is going on

>>20267778
hopefully it's male human female dragon

>>20269697
I thought about just calling it what the bowling alley is called in the text as well, but I thought it would have similar searchability problems. I haven't thought about playing up the absurdity and going full B-movie with it. That could be fun.

>>20269833
This but other way around

>>20269842
Big Bowling Baddies From Space or something B-Movie-esque'd be fun. I dunno how to really come up with a title, I've pretty solidly settled on the title for mine early on (it's half of the source of inspiration for what the whole concept even is) so I'm not good at making one for something later on.

>>20269679
I wonder how many of those books are actually any good

This is my creative output for today. I'm working on a short story and I'll explain the premise if anyone inquires:

The evening rain had come on thunderously out of nowhere and pelted the car as though it were being peppered by a wartime fusilade. Out the windows, the whole world sloshed into one blotted blur and despite their best efforts, the window wipers even at their most urgent setting could not do enough to keep up with the staccato raindrops like castanets from above. Egan leaned forward in his seat squinting to make out a crude road sign ahead that marked a bifurcation through the countryside, struggling just to stay on the road and not end up in the dirt ditch to their right. His wife slouched in the passenger seat scrutinizing a roadmap.

“Do you think we should pull over somewhere? Just until this passes,” he said as the dampened blur of green pastures rolled by on both sides. A car passed by them heading west, one of the only other vehicles they’d seen within an almost half hour interval.

“I guess that wouldn’t hurt. It’s not like we’re in a rush to get anywhere,” Bethany responded. At last she gave up with the map and dropped the creased, infuriating spread of counties on her lap. She sighed. “I thought I was beginning to get an idea of where we are, but I was wrong. This road doesn’t even appear on the map.”

“It’s Caskill something or other I think,” he leaned forward further in his seat as the storm appeared to almost intensify. There was a gauzy, indefinite feel to their surroundings, and he couldn’t shake the feeling for some indescribable reason that everything beyond the car’s windows had become soaked paper mache. Such a strange notion, he thought.

His wife sat upright in her seat, pointing out toward some indeterminate point to their northeast. “Look, there’s some big barnhouse up ahead. Let’s just pull into their driveway and wait it out. I don’t think they’ll mind.”

“Yeah, it’ll only be for a couple of minutes anyway. Just until this settles down.”

can someone link me to some good lit servers by the way, where there are other people posting writing

>>20269654
do you have discord? maybe we could critique each others writing or something. you seem very interesting

>>20269938
discord is like an oasis that's sitting on top of a radioactive waste dump.

Anyone got anything interesting to read? Give me a pitch. I can offer feedback but I'm very harsh.

>>20269904
So, the driving scene from near the beginning of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, only with bigger vocabulary and more metaphors.

>>20269997
I thought this was particularly well written and interesting... >>20267147
Don't worry, Hell-Anon, I'll read it tonight. I'm just having another wildly productive writing day.

>>20270022
I've never seen Rocky Horror Picture Show. My story is about a couple on a roadtrip getting lost and coming across a local museum full of ordinary people doing mundane things, like eating at a diner etc. and they start to realize that the people int eh mseum look like people who went missing in their hometown when they were kids

>>20269997
Just released another chapter of my thing.

The first chapter got a decent reception on here, but when I posted again at the 10-chapter mark I didn't get any feedback, except to post more often.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/51278/summoned-to-another-world-is-this-a-love-dungeon

>>20270022
I already post one thing above, this is from sf novel, ill crit for crit

Ravsgot sprawled in the corner of the couch with one foot on the table. His wrists and neck covered in bracelets, hair hanging over his face, leaning back with a rolled tobacco leaf cigar in his left hand and a jeweled cup in front on the table by his right. Ravsgot currently maintained his appearance in the stream and media as a hunted poet. And so was not one to be generous with his time. He nodded at them as they sat around the couch. Eyeing Gluos as he reached into his bag, pulling out pharmaceuticals and cash. It was an offering. But Ravsgot was still silent, until after a few more moments he nodded along to the current beat of the music being played, a series of rolling electric drums and high hats, and started to recite.

You tryin to be me when you hate you
Can't help being you cause it just do
Making up those dreams livin' in the stream
You ain't us not on the same team
Given up like christ has risen

Ravsgot was content to lean back, putting his long arms over the edge of the couch, the recording of his song was already being watched over and over again by the stream. Glous started to nodded along to the beat and replied in a deep, steady voice.

I came here to help, I came here to help
Nothing more nothing else
Giving up, my lives don't matter
Bag over my head with the monstrosities in City, terrorists
Your scared to go out I'm scared to go in
Never stop going in, going in, going in

Ravsgot smiled and the stream rapidly consumed and compared the response, both verses were going on the album that Peppez At was putting in the afternoon. Everyone turned to Assistant, who realized to her horror that she was expected to say something. The music had shifted, there were moving strings and swooping electric waves that sounded like jazz samples. She closed her eyes, flittered with the stream and the room to sense their vibe and began to sing in a clear high voice that betrayed her as somewhat vocally trained.

You left mind at the edge of space, feel it break and you have a place
You’re somebody else, somebody new
Fucking us all, beginning to look like the ends
Don't run away, I know it's true

The room couldn't help but admit that what she said had merits, Assistant’s effort would be on the album, and the stream already started a sun-fan group for her, which was immediately and unsuccessfully trying to find out her true origins. Glous was already breaking out what was in his bag and handing it out. Music was turned up, the stream stood back and let the session breathe. It took forty-five minutes for them all to catch up. Even then after all the throx and other things they had consumed, social cues still could be understood. Screens turned off and fields went up. Ravsgot stopped laughing. Assistant, laid out on the couch, tried to sit up. Gluos rocking back and forth staring at the floor, quickly got up, pulling Assistant along with muted protest.

Is there a definite authority on how to structure dialogue in English? I mean, for example, where and when to put commas and new paragraphs etc.
I've been told the way I was taught to do it is confusing and I now believe it's probably incorrect or archaic.

>>20270041
I read the first chapter and it was... Painful. I appreciate the protagonist is very much kind of a shithead but he is so immediately somebody I don't really give a shit about, not even to the point of wanting to see him get fucked up or grow. Starting off with an asshole protagonist is a tricky proposition, but you have to give something to make the reader actually like them to some degree otherwise who cares.

>>20270032
I'm just saying, your opening is somewhat cliched.
>Rocky Horror
Are you old enough to be on this site?

>>20270061
Did you try looking in the thread header, under "Technical Aspects of Writing"?
Also, I understand "Elements Of Style" by William Strunk Jr. is well regarded.

Does my LitRPG have to be some concoction of LitRPG and something no one's ever tried before to be popular or can it just be good in a kinda cliche but well executed manner?

>>20270124
A gimmick can catch the eye, but execution is the only way you'll get any lasting popularity. That said, without something to set you apart from the crowd, you won't get anybody reading in the first place regardless of how well you execute it. So do something neat, something that lets you elevator pitch your story, even if it's only a minor thing for the premise. For example, I've never actually writtne LitRPG, but a vague idea I'd toyed with trying out later was "Isekai LitRPG but the protagonist is an autonomous research drone that ends up in the alternate dimension, and the LitRPG elements are just it classifying things because its creator was a geek".

>>20270124
If anyone really knew the secret to being popular, the world would beat a path to their door so they could sit at the guru's feet.

I don't mind trying to give advice, but sometimes, I feel I'm conversing with literal children.

>>20270121
I'll probably buy a copy of Garner's but I don't want to wait for it to arrive.

>>20269412
Anon is writing a shemale comic,, even posted nude drawings.

>>20267147
The real hell is that spacing my dude. Jokes aside, I'm glad you're still at it anon, looks good so far.

>>20270041
>I didn't get any feedback,
Welcome to Royalroad, where hundreds of thousands of books are published. Only some will read and a small percentage will review it.

>>20270170
Yeah, I begged him to reduce the spacing between paragraphs.
I bought a paperback book from an unknown author some time back. $20, but I wanted to be supportive.
Far too much of the 450-page book was blank space caused by too much space between paragraphs.
Needless to say, I was somewhat peeved.

My mind is blank as fuck and I have no idea how to actually write a story, as in the very basic beats of the introduction, exposition, character interactions, any of it, it's all a mystery. Yet I have no trouble whatsoever with RPing.

Should I copy a story and see if that fixes my problem?

>>20270153
You can find it on libgen.

What's a good way to identify whether or not you've over or under-planned a story?

I say this looking at the latest story of mine that stalled out because I couldn't figure out what to do next.

How do I make a love triangle interesting?

>>20270027
>>20270041
>smut
>sexual content
Sorry but I don't want to read something like that.

>>20270250
It's not what you think.
If you read the first several pages, long before the "smutty" part, you'll realize it's setting up a firmly defensible purpose for what the author refers to as "smut".
I don't want to say what it is, because I don't want to ruin it.
But it should be enough to tell you that the author has previously referred to himself as "Hell-Anon".
His is a story of good and evil, as old as time itself.
It's not /b/ realized as prose.

Imagine the power of being able to email 10,000 people directly when selling a book.
Imagine selling 1,000 copies of your debut book on day 1.
Imagine not just retardedly dropping your book into the void thinking merit alone will give it visibility.
Imagine trying to convince others you don’t care if it succeeds.

>>20270345
Got any practical advice to achieve this, probable meerkat?

>>20270377
It’s really simple leach man.
You build an audience.
Shocking I know, gasp if you must faggot.

>>20270377
Just don't reply to him.

>>20270392
Uh huh. Got any practical advice for building an audience?

>>20270404
Aw, c'mon, where's the sport in that?
Don't you have any love for the game?

>>20270414
I have enough love for the thread to know when low quality posters need to be ignored.

>>20270404
S e e t h e.
My reach expands daily.
When I drop my book I’ll have thousands of copies sold day 1.

>>20269972
If you post your info I'll add you, assuming it's even allowed. I'm happy to look at other people's works and I'm willing to at least share my prologue since it doesn't name any of the major characters. I'm rather shy, it's unusual I posted here today.

>>20270431
Meant for >>20269938
Fug it though, happy to critique with anyone.

>>20270414
Amazing how build an audience isn’t practical advice.
I expect nothing less from someone against putting your work out for display.

I feel I'm going too far with the whole "Cathartic defeat" thing. There's fucking 5 villainous characters who have this exact thing happen to them
>They get away with a lot
>They're defeated by one of the cast members.

>>20270471
I think I need more detail, not simply "build an audience".
That's like explaining how a computerized chess game works by saying "you turn it on and it plays chess".

>>20270476
I can’t give you more advice beyond build an audience that already likes the content you create that you’ll eventually write because I can’t make content for you window licker.
Meanwhile I’m almost 9,000 followers in only 6 months after starting.

>>20270485
Where did you build your audience?

>>20270500
Only fans of course.
Where have I been advocating for?

>>20270243
Polyamory. Alternatively, focus on the member of the love triangle who's the worst off of the three. If it's "two people clearly for each other and one pining hanger-on" focus on that hanger-on, etc.

>>20270485
9,000 follow for follows and bots on twitter does not mean an audience of 9,000 strong.
A more pertinent question. How's your drafting going and when do you think your first one will be done?

>>20270472
That's... That's villains in general, anon. They get away with doing bad things until they don't.

>>20270503
Isn't that for exhibitionist young women?
Are you planning to convert boys who drool over your lithe, lovely form into fiction readers?

China is red. What is Japan?

>>20270532
Red and white.

>>20270536
Kay

I dunno who bought a book today but THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I'm seriously thinking about adding LitRPG stat panels to my next fiction so I can get a reader boost on platforms like RR that will suck off any work with a stat panel. Thoughts?

>>20265305
Another 8,600 words added to my novel tonight!
87.5k words total so far!
I expect to finish my first draft early tomorrow!
Then begins the unbounded, tedious process of editing.
Nevertheless, I expect I'll enjoy it.

Previously posted excerpts:
>>20232510
>>20203829
>>20267842
>>20267997

>>20270485
>build an audience that already likes the content you create
Oh, brilliant.
You remind me of the sports commentators on TV with insights like "if they want to win the game today, they have to score more points than the other team".

I *did* try to build an audience that way; I've posted ~100 short stories, some of them chapters in my (so far only) released novel.
There's a chance I just write very unpopular stuff, I suppose.
Which is why I was asking for more detailed advice.

Perhaps you could post a link to the material you used to build an audience.
Now that you've said OnlyFans, I hope it's not dick pics, and your proposed "content" isn't just gay porn.

>>20270605
Do it and find out.
>>20270608
awesome. Good luck!

>>20270608
you're a machine. I hope getting so many words on the page each day doesn't mean its unintelligible. drafting is necessary, but editing makes the novel. good luck, I'm looking forward to reading it

>>20270619
I don't know why this novel was so much easier to write than the last one.
Maybe practice really is that important?
If so...that has wonderful implications for the future of my...hobby. (Not a living yet, nowhere close.)
Because I sailed easily to ~90k in about 2 months, whereas before I struggled for 6 months to get to ~75k.

>>20267147
As always, I found it well-written and compelling.
I especially appreciate your skill with similes and metaphors...I'm still not very good with those.

I only have one other comment, and feel free to ignore it...previously you posted drawings of your protagonist. And I know tastes in women vary widely. But I was expecting a diabolical temptress to look less like a healthy yoga nut. Picrel is closer to what I was imagining, i.e. more voluptuous, and with more of a "come hither" look than a friendly one. You don't have to keep the red hair, either. Like I said, feel free to ignore this.

>>20270503
>>20270524
>>20270615
Nothing to say, huh?
I must say, I'm disappointed.

>>20270404
You were right.

>>20270605
why are they so obsessed with stat panels? shouldn't they just be playing video games?

940 words tonight. It's amazing how easily a story flows when you get to the part you're actually excited to write about. I'm about to get to a really beautiful ballroom dance sequence. I just wish the Tchaikovsky piece I'm using for inspiration had more of the original theme throughout its music.

>>20270776
>beautiful ballrooms dance sequence
You writing chicklit or a period piece?

>>20270517
Ah yes 9,000 follow for follows, exactly as I stated before.
There’s no way you didn’t reply to yourself when asking how I got my followers before.
Cringe.
You’re so uninteresting you project it onto others thinking it impossible to have something of interest to say.

how do you reclaim that urge to create again

>>20270615
>You remind me of the sports commentators on TV with insights like "if they want to win the game today, they have to score more points than the other team".
That’s the reading you got from what I said?
It means build an audience by posting content similar to the content of the book you’re writing.
You have the literacy rate of a nigger from the darkest part of Africa.
Some people really are beyond helping. It’s why I’ve come back to say that I was right 6 months ago rather to hold your hand as I was in the beginning.

>>20270170
>>20270184
Does it look better/read better without the spaces? I apologize, I'll head back through and deal with that. Not a stylistic choice by any means, I actually thought that was something I'd seen and thought it looked odd without them. Thank you though!

>>20270711
Pics related are what I'm attempting to channel. She is meant to be an "updated model", essentially playing into the beauty standards and trends of the current year. Sort of that slim-thicc, tik-tok/Insta-thot aesthetic.

https://youtu.be/rCOmkrwQdFc
Is Alan Moore correct?

>>20270939
This is the same thing Stephen King said, the most inspiring thing is to read something so terrible you feel you could do better.
It's also how H.P. Lovecraft got started, he wrote letters to pulp magazines saying how shit their stories were and eventually started writing his own.

>>20270899
So that's near zero pages written, I take it.

>>20270939
That's exactly my thought on his lovecraft story.

>>20270945
>the same thing Stephen King said, the most inspiring thing is to read something so terrible you feel you could do better
Genuine irony.

>>20270951
Wrong again faggot. First book is almost done.
Audience is nearly ready for what I’m going to drop into their laps.
Your months behind my work but years behind my plans.

>>20270955
Stephen King is a better writer than you will ever be. Stephen King will be beloved long after his death while you will be forgotten. Does this upset you? Do something about it you pussy.

>>20270958
>almost done

>>20270958
almost done with your draft? take whatever time you spent writing and that's how long you'll be editing. plus half.

>>20270969
Yada yada faggot. Take whatever time you spent writing, edit your book, drop it into the void upon publishing because you have zero ears to hear you and zero eyes to see your work.

>>20270977
Not that anon but are you saying you don't plan on editing it?
>What about our draft?
>You already had one.
>We had one draft, yes. But what about second draft?
>I don't think he's ever heard of a second draft, Pip.

>>20270977
jesus, you haven't written word one. good luck retard

>>20267047
Anyone know how to import the entire contents of blogger into Tumblr? I need a wider audience.

I wouldn’t hate this meerkating pseud half as much if he could at the very least provide a few tips and tricks as to how he’s growing, if only for the entertainment value that comes with seeing his newest 68iq plan. Instead all we get is “marketing is good, marketing is magic. You need to market you know!”. Nothing of substance.
Anytime he does let slip his forbidden knowledge it makes him look like an absolute retard. I want to know what the next Mailing list, Twitter follow4follow scam or #BOOKTOC is.

>>20271012
How about becoming a booktuber? You build a following on youtube by jumping on every tag possible, pushing yourself into every collab you can, do reaction videos and tierlists, review the hot new book of the month and then you drop your book to THAT audience, giving them writing updates on a weekly basis like Sanderson does (how the fuck Sanderson can give percentages for his writing I don't know), surely this plan is high-effort and high-maintenance and requires you to basically make youtube your day job but it might work.

I dont understand. I'm retarded, so I write in very simple terms. Is this okay. Cuase shit like this >>20269904 is way beyond my brainlet level. I don't even think of this type of stuff. Honestly wish I just had the money to make movies

https://youtu.be/rCOmkrwQdFc
Don't forget, /wg/.

>>20267479
This is why I always go back to my early chapters every so often and rewriting stuff. But I feel like I do it too much and I end up not making much progress because of it.

>>20270939
>>20271024
Why are you shilling Alan Moore? He's a funnybook writer and will never evolve beyond that. I read Voice of the Fire, it sucked.

>>20271022
There’s no money in that.
Look at the Joseph Anderson. As soon as he saw even the slightest bit of success on Youtube he dropped every shred of passion he had for being a real author. Not a single second of work went into a new novel since then.
That seems to be the way it is for most booktubers. Writing is either a side gig they do for clout or something they drop instantly.

>>20267047
>1.2k today
>dark comedy dialogue
>best dialogue

>>20270981
No, I plan on doing as many edits as necessary. I won’t use an editor, as I’m fundamentally against other people writing for me in a sense.

>>20267726
Fuck that. My ADHD prevents me from planning things out. I have ideas of things that may or may not happen but that's about it. I write just about everything as it comes and that's probably why I felt a lot more confident once I realized my story would work better as a web novel.

>>20271030
You mean it's as good of a plan as everything else the other guy came up with? Nice.

>>20270183
Speaking of RR, what exactly is the difference between it and Wattpad? Should I choose one over the other if I plan to post my story? Or could I post it on both?

>>20270986
Makes you feel better to lie to yourself.
I understand.
You’re having a hard time coming to terms with my warnings about dropping your book into the void because you haven’t prepped and built an audience.
You’re too impatient to wait to publish it too as you could build up.
I’ll watch from the side lines.
Post author name you’ll publish under.

>>20271036
Yes, but you are on the right track with that.
One of they keys to Joseph Anderson’s success was that he essentially leveraged his status as an author to clout his way into a position of authority on game story. In a post “The town made him stupid” world we can look back on that in humour/disgust, but it did work.
He didn’t use his YouTube channel to sell his books, he used his books to sell his YouTube channel.

>>20271022
YouTube is too high effort, nor enough reward.
Hence other social media.

>>20271023
>Is this okay.
It can be, nothing wrong with a simple book, some even become popular.
> money to make movies
You can do crappy short movies and hope to get lucky or learn to draw.
>>20271028
Those videos are doing the rounds it seems.

>>20271072
Even a crappy short movie requires a fuck ton of money.
>Crew
>Set
>Actors
>Effects
>Equipment
The only cost effective way is to make some lame found footage shit

I've run into an issue regarding my latest chapter. The protag was almost poisoned during a dinner date by the chef (introduced 2 pages ago) and waiter (introduced at the start of the chapter). As for their motivation I intend to make the next chapter a bit of a prequel to these events, which would tie in perfectly with another scenario that happened earlier and even something that happened during the very beginning. So no biggie, right? Well... I'm struggling to make a satisfying conclusion.
I won't go heavy into details here but the protag forces the waiter to eat the poisoned food, proceeds to punch the waiter so hard she throws up, calls out the chef, forces chef to eat the vomit, kills the waiter with a steak knife then tells the chef to eat the dead waiter. From here it just gets hazy like I have the chef acting really confused, shit talking the protag for a bit and thinking this is all an elaborate prank. Protag dips into a short speech that's supposed to come across as "you're fucking retarded because I easily figured out your ploy without even thinking" but just reads as schizophrenic drivel, then kills the chef. It just feels like a shallow conclusion. What do you guys recommend?

>>20271084
>the protag forces the waiter to eat the poisoned food, proceeds to punch the waiter so hard she throws up, calls out the chef, forces chef to eat the vomit, kills the waiter with a steak knife then tells the chef to eat the dead waiter
this is where it all goes off the rails. like, what the fuck?
>I easily figured out your ploy without even thinking
from the random chef and equally random waiter? how about rather than acting like a complete nutjob your protag interrogates them and finds out who put them up to it

>>20271030
His books were popular before his videos? I figured his videos were how he got people to look at his books at all.
Inspiring!

>>20270726
I don't know man, I don't know why fucking Xianxia cultivator bullshit exists as a genre in the first place. Anyway, I'm gonna include the stat system, but I'm going to keep it to a minimum (no skills, long-ass titles, level up messages bullshit -- just stats) just like some LNs have done and gotten away with it. I'm planning to have the cake and stomp on it too in regards to not becoming a full-lledged LitRPG

>>20271098
This is honestly pretty tame considering everything up to this point. For reference, chapter 1 has a character forcibly eat a glob of liquid hot glass from a glass blower.
Protag is 100% a nut job so none of this is out of character (besides the speech) but yeah maybe an interrogation would be a good which could lead into the prequel chapter.
Thanks anon

>>20271023
Many people new to reading and writing see prose as simply painting a picture of the scenery. While there isn’t a ton wrong with what you’ve referenced, this overly descriptive environmental writing isn’t a core aspect to a novel. It’s just another subjective quality in an authors style.
If you want an example of an opposite you should check out Terry Pratchett. This past week I’ve been reading Going Postal and have been amazed at how a post office with nearly every room filled floor to ceiling with ancient letters has so little lip service paid to it, yet there is so much effort put into each word of dialogue.

>>20271107
No, quite the opposite actually. His books were wildly unpopular. The writing was comedy tier, worse than even Gardners, and the ratings for each book were sitting between 2-3 stars on Amazon. His success on YouTube was tied simply to the fact that he could call himself an author, not that he was a good author.
This should be even more inspiring if you plan to jump into YouTube in the same way. If Joseph Anderson can do it, anyone can.

>it's only noon and I'm already done with my daily 1k
Today will be a very productive day, bros.

>>20267063
>What's the last book you read that straight up had a dragon slaying in it? What was the book?
Eragon.

>Did you feel cheated out of a more meaningful conflict, maybe addressing the dragon's home life which lead to it being a threat that needed slaying and possibly some kind of Dragon Lives Matter movement following its death?
Yes, but I have no idea what to answer for the second part

>Is the need to bring real life issues into fantasy settings a good thing and a sign of more mature storytelling or is it just pandering?
It depends on what the story is about thematically and the talent of the writer.

My story does involve a dragon-slaying as a metaphor. The story portrays a fantasy society that is in the transition to the early Industrial Age, and an end to the age of fairy tales, dismissed as superstition.
Largely, I'm riffing off St. George and the Dragon.
As the story goes, the metaphorical *dragons* rear their heads, and the people of the city fall into despair that the heroes of fairy tales are gone, if they ever existed at all. And yet, new heroes rise to slay the new *dragons*, freeing the city, and implicitly telling us that fairy tales do not exist to tell us that dragons exist, but that dragons can be defeated.

>>20271076
>Even a crappy short movie requires a fuck ton of money.
All you need is a camera and actors, unless you're trying to do some capeshit

>>20270183
>basically a visual novel without sound or pictures
>£272,794 pledged
some people could sell ice to eskimos

>>20269904
>thunderously
no idea what you mean by this

> the window wipers even at their most urgent setting could not do enough to keep up with the staccato raindrops like castanets from above.
clunky. clean this up

>an almost half hour interval.
say half an hour

>as the storm appeared to almost intensify.
also clunky. I would continue the musical comparison from earlier, like, "the staccato became a cacophony"

Pay attention to your use of figurative language. Don't just pepper your work with similes and metaphors. Think about the underlying subtext of your writing (character development, themes, plot, world) and consider the use of figurative language to draw out any underlying themes of the story. The arc reactor in Tony Stark's chest isn't *just* a miniature power plant.

Otherwise, it's a good opening. Ominous. Half expecting them to die and for the real protagonist to show up to investigate their deaths.

>>20270242
What you start writing it, are you running into writer's block? If so, under-planning.
Otherwise, are you finding yourself discarding a lot of your outline? If so, over-planning.

>>20270041
>I didn't get any feedback
>summoned-to-another-world-is-this-a-love-dungeon
What!? Blatant pandering with an overused premise was not a key to instant success!??

>>20270041
You read too many Japanese porn comics

Anyone here have experience with writing competitions?

I have a couple of short works that aren't that strong, thought about sending them out into the ether

>>20271503
good sound is actually more important than people realize. you can have hand held camera, badly lit crap actors and audiences will still suspend disbeilief and go along with the story, but if they can't hear the dialouge or theres static or shit sound effects it's over.

t. seen a lot of film student shorts

>>20271673
Nobody does post-recording?

>>20271724
for a small amateur short, no never seen it.

>>20271657
I've got a story in one right now. Will find out next month how it turned out.

>>20271657
Know any decent competitions? In my country, there are less than 10 per year and almost all are for children/students or essays/poems. No choice but to try in English

>>20271817
I found a bunch of these on this Poets and Writers website

Im living abroad rn so im not gonna try to do anything in this country, might try for something at home too

I feel like this writing competitions is just a money mill for bored housewives and "marginalized groups"

Feel like im falling down a rabbit hole or some shit

>>20270431
>>20270450
Here's my server: https://discord.gg/AFM3MCfq

>>20270608
>>20270608
Join my lit discord. We enjoy reading other anons' writing excerpts and offering insightful advice. https://discord.gg/AFM3MCfq

>>20271522
Thanks for the helpful comment. I'll be posting more of this story as I write more and do rereads and edits of previous excerpts on my discord server. Since you have helpful comments to proffer, it would be nice if you could join. We love reading other people's work as well, so it would be great if you could sporadically post whatever you're doing.

If you join the server, I can explain there more of my thought process behind how I wanna build up character, themes, world, atmosphere in the story and where I'm drawing inspo from.

The server links are posted above. Thanks!

>>20271657

If your works have the same atmosphere as the image related, I'd love to read them.

>>20271008
>no answer

>>20272033
They do but they still aren't that good

>>20271976
I joined just because. see you there.

>>20272047
join the server above and post! I'm eagerly awaiting to offer feedback

>>20270899
>>20270909
OK, then answer the question.
What content are you posting on OnlyFans that's similar to the content of the book you're writing?
It's my understanding that OnlyFans is mostly about e-thots.
Resorting to mindless racial slurs doesn't exactly give me confidence in you.

>>20270912
Fair enough. My taste in women isn't as "current".

>>20271657
If you're interested in writing horror, i came across this tweet the other day.
https://twitter.com/FrissonComics/status/1514224524522315776

>>20267817
There was someone who used to post a story about two dragons arguing. Was that you?

>>20272155
To spare people from having to look at the social media site for twits:

OPEN CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS! Frisson Comics are taking submissions for our latest issue of Knock Knock, The Body Horror edition! We’re looking for comics, stories, illustrations, poetry, articles created around the theme of body horror.

So if you're into that, you can go visit.

I was thinking of writing a dystopian alternative history where Trump was as bad as everyone said he’d be and so all the minorities are exterminated, gays are chemically castrated, and attractive women are locked in rape rooms for days at a time so men can grab them by the pussy. However, climate change is about to kill us all because he’s withdrawn from all global treaties to curtail climate, which is real, and deadly.
I’m just not sure what kind of protagonist to have. Or maybe it should be done as reports, like a history book detailing the last days of humanity?

How do I stay the course on a story I'm writing instead of being a weak-willed little bitch who changes course every time he interacts with the FOTM?

>>20272205
Cloister yourself and never interact with FOTM or anything else.

>>20270726
Why shouldn't they? They're not involved in wars or train to fight, so they don't have the same frame of reference that someone who grew up during WW2, or had a parent who was a vet, would have for knowing exactly how strong a fictional character is. What they do have exposure to is a long history of abstractions.

>>20272181
Your book might be really popular with the Loony Left, so as long as you're fine with dragging the public discourse even further into the mud than it already is, I say go for it!
I mean, really, how much lower could it get?
The only parallel I can think of is the novel "Fatherland" by Robert Harris, but that was set a few decades in the future, after the Nazis (in that alternate history) had won WWII.
Can you try to imagine what life in America would be like twenty years after the events you describe? That might work.
Alternately, you could describe an America where any deviation from the government narrative is labeled "disinformation" and censored, and anyone stepping out of line is not only canceled, but imprisoned and executed. Might be more realistic.

>>20272205
Write a short story about it instead of incorporating it into your main work. Then in your post-nut clarity, you can focus back on your main writing.

>>20270897
Period piece. This is at the big party they have after securing peace for a 20+ year war and it's where the MC meets the main girl of the story.

>>20272155
>>20272168
I got something that fits this bill, thanks a lot anon

>>20272181
Kaufman beat you to it.

>>20272181
You have a setting, but you have no story at all yet.
Unsong is an alt-history of modern America where kabbalah becomes real in the late 60s. It's a novel, but it has frequent interludes where it drops the narrative and just tells about the history of the world, which works ok. One of the interludes suggests that Obama is a literal demon, that's why it came to mind. It's web fiction, not particularly well-written, but it might give you ideas for how to approach this.
Unless you intend it to be a short piece, make sure you're fueled by more than contempt for Trump hysteria, or it'll end up flat. Build a world that's not just plucked out of the minds of your enemies but has its own internal logic and depth.
Which elements of your world speak to you, are compelling beyond their necessity for the concept? I'd look there for hooks to crystallize a story around.

>>20272168
Sounds fun, but I don't think a story about a post transition surgery victim would go over well.

Waking up post surgery. Not feeling relieved just hollow. Flashback where the doctor is excitedly talking, catches sight of his bank account balance on the screen. "You'll be so much happier." Getting home, bills still needing to be paid, the wound hurting. Flashback to the psychiatrist suggesting it as a panacea. "Sometimes god gets it wrong." Dialation sessions, discomfort in general, going on a tinder date and being rejected immediately and called a freak. Self hatred through the roof, just about to commit suicide. Final flashback. A school guidance counselor, pride flags all over the walls. "Men are pigs, men are scum, but you're sensitive, that's not you. You were born in the wrong body. You need to become who you really are."

>>20272033
>tfw your works will never have the atmosphere of a flooded, lightless basement

What's a good way to differentiate characters with similar personality types? Let's say both are known as hotheaded morons. Would it be enough to add different interests like cooking vs fighting, or should I make more fundamental changes like having one be impulsive while the other is overly cautious?

>>20272561
The similarities make the differences all the more stark. Highlight those differences, whatever they are. Perhaps one is hotheaded out of a desire to get things over with and be done with the situation, whereas the other wants to revel in the situation.

>>20270605
this is going to go against the grain of /wg/, but popular royal road fictions represent significant effort and skill. the absence of serious literary merit doesn't mean they lack all merit, and the absence of basic spelling and grammar in some of them doesn't mean you can produce competitors if you have zero familiarity with the genre. you can't jam a stat panel into your pretentious war and peace homage and turn it into an instant hit.

>>20270608
The first draft is finally DONE!
88,916 words total!
Time for some serious editing.

>Read reddit
>tons of traditionally published authors
>30k a year from writing books
>lots of advances
>they all made it
How does Reddit do it guys

>>20272744
They drink our milkshake.

>>20272744
>>Read reddit
Why
>>tons of traditionally published authors
Identity publishing is not true trad pub
>>30k a year from writing books
That's not a lot.
>>lots of advances
Advances are bait to get new authors to agree to what amounts to a loan, that if isn't made back in sales in 12 months must be paid back by the author.
>>they all made it
I don't know a single one of them who have entered the literary canon
>How does Reddit do it guys
They don't

>>20272761
>30k/yr. from writing not a lot
i'd be overjoyed with that much
>literary canon
moving-goalposts fallacy
>blah blah blah
seethe

>>20272744
>30k a year
>make it
Buddy, I’m a 2.5 year plumbing apprentice getting $30 an hour + health insurance, dental, vision, 2 pensions (national and local) with a 401k.
30k was bad before the covid era.
30k is straight up poverty tier now.

>be me
>come up with a cool character
>write and edit a book for years based around said character
>plot has to do with the intricacies of my personality and powers, so heavily tied to the character
>have a realization
>my character is an exact copy of naruto

Kill me.

>>20272850
yes but plumbing is extremely boring and gay.

>>20272850
On top of this, I wouldn’t become a full time writer until my income exceeded my check income (so no benefits) by at least 50%, because that retirement and various insurances are worth a lot.
So when I journey out, I won’t become a full time writer until my income exceeds $150,000 a year.

>>20272761
I have no stake in the debate you two are having but stop repeating this bullshit - advances are not paid back. Either you "earn it back" and start making more money on top of it, or you never "pay it back" via book sales and it's considered a disappointing sales relative to expectations.

>>20272850
It's not bad for a side-gig/passion project (and supposedly decently successful books can have a long payout tail over the years) but yea you can stock shelves part-time and earn more than many hypothetical full time writers could.

>>20272865
Trust me bro, if I knew you and had a gun, I'd pull the trigger for you. No hesitation

>>20272908
Thanks anon, but I wish I had a solution to this. Too much of this dude is integral to the plot.

>>20272893
30k a year is nothing to scoff at, but think of it this way.
If your book is priced around say $7.99
To make 30k a year you’d have to
>sell approximately 40,000 copies as a trad pubbed author if being generous.
>sell approximately 6,000 copies as a self pubbed author
Unless wildly successful, that requires planning, forethought, a pre existing audience to meerkat towards, and (you guessed it) meerkatting.
Most of the guys here hate planning, but even more hate the idea of meerkatting.

>>20272850
>30k is straight up poverty tier
Not for a side-project/hobby.
>>20272893
What you said.

>>20272868
Plumbers can't be outsourced, or replaced by unskilled illegal immigrants.
And everyone needs one at some point.
The trades are based.

>>20272865
Turn it into Naruto fanfic and post it on WattPad?
I hear such things are popular there.

>>20272937
I don't know shit about Naruto though, just enough to know that my character isn't original at all.

>>20273038
One piece of advice I've always found helpful regarding characters: it is more useful to come up with unique relationships than unique characters. All characters are descended from a handful of archetypes, it is their juxtaposition that creates novelty.

>>20272934
Especially as a union journeyman.
People underestimate our wages.
We make $53 an hour plus benefits and retirement.
I feel bad for the non union guys who don’t own their own business though, they earn less than a 1st or 2nd year apprentice 99% of the time.

>>20267147
A lot better than expected. But after the first chapter I still don't get the point.
>he’s easily two meters tall
>two heads taller than me
No wonder he's in hell. He's a mute manlet. Only gigachads are allowed in heaven.

>in the room with and far more intent on
>brutes files out

>the Pink one
>the yellow one
>The pink one
>faced Yellow snorts
Make up your mind.

>>20273291
The "Ogre" dudes are all meant to be about 7 feet tall, protagonist is about 6'0 tall (at the start of the story) I'll have to reexamine how I've written that since it's clearly not coming across. >in the room with and far more intent on
>brutes files out
(Thank you for catching these for me! Much appreciated.)

>>20273322
>Thank you
You made me happy. I wish you success!

>>20270908
I can only speak for myself.
It turns out my poor sleep quality was to blame...which, unfortunately, had persisted for decades. Horrible, debilitating nightmares, every night.
Then I found this:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/body-odd/bad-smells-can-give-you-nightmares-flna1C9926317
Sounds stupid, but all I did was put several incense cones on my headboard, burn one of them occasionally, change my sheets more often, and made sure to use antiperspirant every day...and my nightmares went away.
Within a week, I was feeling a lot better...and then my muse, which I hadn't seen in decades, came out of nowhere.
I've been writing up a storm ever since.
I'm not saying it'll work for you, but it worked like a miracle for me.

>>20273384
I feel privileged that someone not only clicked my story to read it, but felt as if it was worth their time to help me address some of the mistakes/oversights or any of the confusion. So really, thank you!

how the fuck do people manage to write without feeling embarrassed? it feels to me that it's an exercise for narcissists

>>20273594
This speaks volumes about your writing.
Is this you?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3THr7WJepAM

How do I use the Kishotenketsu structure for a story?

>>20273693
Make it a comedy

>>20273693
Define it for me first, and explain why you are interested in using it.

>>20273594
Write about your teenage masturbatory habits, you'll become jaded to any embarrassment after wallowing in it long enough.

How do I fill up the middle of a story? Figuring out the beginning and ending is easy for me, but connecting them is a mystery.

>>20273594
Why can't they just be confident?
Do they have to have narcissistic personality disorder?
Not sure why you're conflating the two.

>>20269412
I'm working on Symbiosis. The introductory story to another series that's on the back-burner. Its a weird mix of fantasy and sci-fi

>>20273848
>Do they have to have narcissistic personality disorder?

I feel like you don't know what these words mean.

I went to a convention today. While I was there, I talked to a guy who served in the Army and decided to make his own publishing service after being rejected by too many major publishers. One of the things he told me was that to be a successful author, you have to be a successful salesman. He used to sit at all of these conferences with just a single table and his book and wonder why nobody was picking it up. Once he got out there and started talking to people and sharing his book with them, the sales started to come through. Eventually, that's how he got enough to start his own publishing firm and now he services over 17 authors across the United States. Dude still writes too.
I'm not a marketer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm starting to believe that if I want to be a well-known author, I really need to start taking the whole marketing gig more seriously than I have been. The only way you can really get known is if you make yourself known. I won't ever stoop to follow for follow scams nor will I ever write a lit RPG, but I think it's time to take a more serious involvement in my own writing career. If I don't, who else will?
Thanks for reading my blog. Now what meme should I make: virgin writer versus Chad author or 21 year old writer vs 31 year old writer?

Reminder: join this server to share your writing ad get feedback from others. We are building a community of people who will help each other out.
https://discord.gg/AFM3MCfq

>>20274091
After President Obama, we ALL know what those words mean.
Followups to /pol/

>go into writing feeling like a goddamn genius with amazing characters and plots
>my writing is absolute shit
How do I cope

How do you guys approach an idea that's not working? I have something I really want to write, it's only about 10, 000 words but I'm nearing the end and it's all wrong. I tried a re-write but I feel so bogged down in the story that I found myself just editting sentences and paragraphs to flow better but not really changing the structure of the story at all. I need to scrap it and start again but I can't even begin to think of where to start from. I don't want to give up though because this is really important to me and I feel like it's the kind of story I've wanted to tell for awhile I just can't make it work. Have you ever been so stubborn with an idea that it paid off?

>>20274225
Keep writing

>>20274250
Is the idea fundamentally not working out, or is it just some aspect of it that you can tweak?

>>20274211
So you're using it intentionally wrong on purpose? And what does Obama have to do with this?

>>20274284
It should be a story about, basically, my father and the cycle of resentment towards his own life that causes him to go through the same beats again and again. The problem is that it continues to devolve into long-winded paragraphs and imagery and observation about family life which are sometimes quite good but other times tedious and too wrote. I'm having trouble attaching all the sentiment to an actual story that works to carry things along. Currently it is too wrapped up in "the drive home" which disrupts the story heavily and makes it hard to attach the opening scene with later scenes at home. I guess I can articulate the problem but it's just a struggle to rework it.

I want to have a twist, but I don't know what that twist is and have to figure it out. Is this poor form? Should I have figured out if an element I introduced would twist the story?

>>20273736
>Define it for me first
How new are you?
http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

>>20274380
Yes I have heard the term before and have a perfectly functioning browser search bar. What I want is the asker to show his mastery and depth of interest in the concept (and it's application) to prove he actually has an inkling of agency to use the info or if he's just smelling his own farts and imagining how *unique* his unwritten (and never to be written past page one) entry can be into the western canon.

>>20274496
>western canon
God no, I would never want to subject myself to that

how does one even write? let's say i want to write only for myself. how do i do it?

>>20274547
Put words down.

>>20273594
write smut. after a while you won't give a shit.

>>20274547
You already did it (:

>>20274553
But it’s scat smut.

>>20273594
thats typically why writers use fake names

why isn't there a shill thread for publishedfags?

>>20274577
Because advertising and begging are global bans.

>>20274328
Treat the long-winded parts as outlines, and then rewrite them in a way that demonstrates the observations, instead of just enumerating them.
Show, don't tell.

>>20274577
Not enough of them?

>>20274577
In the original message in this thread, there's a line that says
>/wg/ Authors and Flash Fiction Pastebin

Is this a good arc for a protagonist?
>Starts the story as what amounts to a newborn, as he's basically non-sentient
>As he slowly becomes aware of himself and his surroundings, he starts to innocently question his own existence and purpose in the world.
>He starts actually doing stuff like fighting against villainous characters, makes a couple allies, and this purposelessness starts to subside as he slowly finds his place in the world.
>However, he nearly dies at one point at the hands of the main antagonistic figure. Like, 0.01% HP near-dead. Everything is broken.
>As a result, his body pushes it's limits in order to both rapidly heal itself and become even stronger. This strain, however, coupled with the prior injuries, basically turns him into a mindless, robotic force of destruction who actually kills a few of his former allies in the process of taking revenge on the guy who nearly killed him.
>This eventually fades and he slowly starts to go to normal. But even though he's established himself as a person, he's basically lost all of his innocence as a tradeoff.
It's sort of a tragedy.

>>20274836
Is this Kaijuanon.

New thread is up! Since there's been concern about the proliferation of sci fi and fantasy writing in these threats, let's try to make the new one a genre-fiction free place!
>>20274859