/lit/ - Literature

Was The Way of Kings really the best Sanderson had to offer? Sad, really.
Which book will Sandersonfags deflect to now?

What do we think of this?

>>20264867

>>20265063
>lord of mysteries
Who's the autist that keeps shilling this shit?

Hey guys whats up

>>20265075
its good but you're dopamine addiction won't let you enjoy it

>>20265094
web novels are for dopamine addicts

If a story doesn't describe the protagonist's appearance within the first few chapters i drop it.

>ywn drink spice coffee on dune with your sietch
Why live

>>20265094
I have actually considered reading it but I find it very difficult to get into web novels.
>>20265142
How specific does it have to be? What if the author is trying to keep it vague for self inserters?

>>20265142
>he dropped bastion
ngmi

>Conan the Barbarian
>Kull of Atlantis
>Solomon Kane
>Bran Mak Morn
>El Borak

Robbie E Howard knew how to pick names.

>>20265244
skin/hair/eye color are all very important. Anything other than that is of lesser importance. Otherwise it's really annoying to picture the mc in my head.

>>20264562
If GERM were working towards a typical fantasy ending he would have finished the series years ago. He WANTS to have a GOTTA SUBVERT DEM EXPECTATIONS ending because that's what the entire series has been about, but he has absolutely no idea how to do that in a way that isn't completely retarded AND completely obvious.

>>20265063
>Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear
>[Bear Bear Bear] Bear

What happened to king posting?

>>20265410
You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. And that much is obvious to everyone.

whoever recommended City at the End of TIme, thank you, it's fucking great

>>20265731
based happy reader

>>20265731
>inspired by and shares plot elements with The Night Land
Oh cool, I have to check out Greg Bear. Seems like he's done a lot of novels, and a big variety too.

I started the way of kings and have a few questions. Every chapter so far (up to chapter 4) has this weird intro of recording someone with a date and time. Should I be keeping track of that/is it relevant info? Also, I'm kinda lost on locations on what's happening where. Hell, the map they give us at the beginning I havent used once yet. Should I be keeping track on that too? I'm just going through the motions of reading it right now, not knowing why I'm reading about a specific person, or where they are.

>>20265895
sandersnoy just loves epigraphs

>>20265880
yeah the Forge of God is pretty good

>>20265895
IIRC dates don't have much importance in the series, but maybe there was some time dependant storyline. Nothing important enough to remember, though.

>>20265289
Shame he offed himself like a bitch.

>>20265656
I'm sorry, but it's true. You can continue being an ignorant fanboy, but you gotta accept the fact sooner or later that he's never going to finish the series for the reasons I stated.

>>20265895
>Should I be keeping track of that/is it relevant info?
Don't bother keeping track. This is explained later and the details won't matter.

>Also, I'm kinda lost on locations on what's happening where.
Exact geography isn't important either. However, you should at least know generally which city or province the characters are within. If you can't follow that, then you need to pay closer attention. There are a bunch of flashbacks too. I hope you aren't confusing time as well. Pay attention to time.

>>20265895
>Should I be keeping track of that/is it relevant info

Almost everything you dont understand at first in Stormlight will be explained eventually, if not in that book then the next. When something you dont understand comes up, you really just need to read and you will soon find out all the answers.

>>20265895
No, it's just what hacks do to create the illusion of depth and history to their flat world. A lot of YA readers are dumb children, as they conflate superfluous details for actual worldbuilding.

>>20265612
Bisoromi Bear

>people arguing about sanderson shit
it's YA fiction you autists, start your own general

>>20265272
I still have no fucking clue what Scorio looks like. It's actually kind of fascinating how he managed to completely avoid describing Scorio in any factor whatsoever beyond "kinda tall" and "male".

I've spent months deferring the books on my reading list which are supposed to be the best because it never feels like the right time, how do I stop being such a retard?

>>20266490
dude no one ever gets through their reading lists

>>20266490
I don't have a reading list because there's fuck all to read.

“Everyone…” Fang Zheng observed the surroundings, seeing the concerned pairs of eyes, and felt extremely touched.

Everyone…

Everyone has expectations of me.

My classmates, uncle, aunt, Shen Cui, and sir clan leader!

Everyone is waiting for me, looking at me, supporting me……

How can I lose? How can I fall here? How can I!

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

His heart pounded in his chest, and Fang Zheng’s eyes shone with brilliance.

I cannot fall here!

I will dispel the shadow and stand up!!

Fang Zheng’s fists were tightly clenched, no longer feeling any pain at this point. He felt a lion in his chest, awakening from its sleep and opening its huge mouth to roar!

Hot-blood boiled in his body.

Stand up, stand up!

Break the shadows, break the darkness!

“ARGHHHHHHHHH!” Fang Zheng opened his mouth wide to shout, his body starting to emit a green jade light.

“What’s that?” The crowd silenced.

“Jade Skin Gu!” Someone shouted.

Bam!

The students roared towards the heavens.

“Fang Zheng, you can do it!”

“Fang Zheng, we have your back!”

Finally only one last cheer remained —”Stand up! Stand up!”

“Everyone….. I can hear your voices.” Fang Zheng clenched his fist, his teeth almost crushed. Fang Yuan’s pressure was no longer so imposing, he could finally get up, slowly and steadily.

The shouting intensified.

“He’s burning with anger!!”

“He’s going to do a comeback.”

Gu Masters hearing such cheers and excitement from the crowd, were all starting to feel moved.

“That’s right, Fang Zheng, that’s right! Stand up, stand up, abandon the past, dispel the shadow and stand up, you will become a new person!” Clan leader’s eyes shone with bright light as he cheered Fang Zheng on in his heart.

“Jade Skin Gu…” Fang Yuan’s eyelids drooped. He pulled back his leg and saw Fang Zheng stand up slowly, the Jade Skin Gu’s radiance turning his face green.

Fang Zheng had always been hiding this trump card up till now and did not reveal it to anyone, thus nobody knew about it.

“Fang Zheng got up!” The crowds’ cheers exploded.

“He stood up!” Clan leader was moved, uncontrollably standing up from his seat. At this moment, he saw the rise of an A grade talent! He saw the future of the Gu Yue clan!

“I stood up, brother, I will defeat you!” Fang Zheng’s eyes burned with determination, his entire body enveloped in bright green light like he was wear a jade armor!

Didn't ask.

>>20266583
“Oh wow, this defense, even the moonblade can’t pierce it. It seems Fang Zheng wins.” Yao Hong raised her brows, blowing a whistle.

“Indeed, even with the Little Light Gu’s reinforcement, hitting on this barrier, it would only cause Fang Zheng’s primeval essence to be consumed faster. But comparing primeval essence expenditure, Fang Yuan is no match for Fang Zheng. After this match, Fang Zheng is going to rise!” Qing Shu laughed lightly.

“Fang Zheng had a Jade Skin Gu, but only used it now. It seems Fang Yuan’s earlier attacks confused him. But now, victory is already waving towards him.” Mo Yan folded her arms, her gaze slightly uncertain.

Time seem to have paused.

On the stage, the brothers faced each other.

The two’s distance was so close yet so far.

Fang Zheng’s firm determination, Fang Yuan’s eternal indifference.

“Little brother…” He looked at Fang Zheng peacefully, his lips curling into a smirk, “Thinking of defeating me, you’re still far from it.”

He raised his right hand, his right arm flexing, pulling into a bow shape.

“Big brother, you’ve lost!” Fang Zheng felt amused in his heart seeing Fang Yuan’s raised fist.

As long as he had primeval essence, even with the Little Light Gu’s reinforcement, the moonblade could not break the jade colour barrier, not to mention his fist? Unless he used the Flower Boar Gu or the Brute Force Longhorn Beetle Gu to raise his strength. But even so, he would need a defensive type Gu……

Fang Yuan did not say anything, but he used his fist to give the most straightforward answer.

The next moment, the right fist flew in the air and hit Fang Zheng harshly on the cheeks.

Bam!

After a loud crash, blood spilled as the jade light smashed to bits like broken mirror fragments dancing in the sky before vanishing.

“What?!” Fang Zheng was hit by such a shock once again, and after a stunned moment, his neck was almost broken as he hurriedly retreated.

Fang Yuan followed up closely, using a bow step and raising his left fist, pulling back and striking again upwards!

Bam!!

Fang Zheng’s other half of his face was hit by the impact, his head rising high up with blood and broken jade light flying in the air.

Bam, bam, bam!

He took three steps backwards, his ears buzzing as a dizziness ten times greater than before assaulted him.

“How can this… be!” His vision darkened, and he collapsed on the arena —

Plop.

Fang Zheng fell on the ground, the light dissipating on his body as he fainted in the next moment.

The shouts and cheers came to an abrupt end.

The happy, excited expressions of the students were still glued on their faces, unable to change due to such a shock.

The entire arena was silent.

New Mage Errant today. More underage gay sex with a subplot of magic advancement.

>>20266496
Do you only read top bestselling authors that you hear about on other social aggregates?

>>20266648
No. Actually I read a truly enormous amount of self published garbage, but I'm scratching the bottom of the bucket even on that. My most recent read was Paranoid Mage, which was surprisingly good. There was also Saving Supervillains which was more coomer but also kept me going. But alongside that there's plenty that's just irredeemably bad.

>>20266583
>>20266588
based

>>20266666

>>20265142
>a new character is introduced
>the author doesn't immediately describe the character's appearance in full detail while also providing their backstory from birth to the present day

>>20266707
A quick once-over broad description is generally enough to fit a face together, though more important characters should generally have a bit more thorough description that you get piecemeal, so we can actually understand what the fuck people look like.

gotta say, deep into vol2 and i'm really starting to like APGTE.

>>20266827
I keep meaning to read that and a lot of other webnovels, but I mostly read on my phone. Guess I could just use the browser to do that, but it feels less readable that way. Maybe I should just knuckle down and do it because some seem real good.

>>20266583
>Ching Ding glared petulantly at the jade lotus flower. It represented all that he hated of XiChong Empire, of Mo Lee Ping, and most of all, himself.

>>20266832
You can use the secret technique of pushing CTRL and + at the same time, making the text as big as you want. Damn, Royalroad even allows for text and webpage customization (picrel)

>>20266827
>gotta say, deep into vol2 and i'm really starting to like APGTE.
Vol 1 of PGTE is very average, the next one is better and has some good moments, then the third is liked but was a slog for me. Then Vol 4 is okay I think, but keep in my mind that 5 or 6 volume has a horrible (as in extremely boring and almost unreadable, but also with some annoying consequences) arc that made a lot of people quit, I just dropped it some time after.

>>20266884
I meant reading on the phone browser. I admittedly haven't checked APGTE to see how well-formatted it is for that (only thing I've really read on a phone browser was Warbreaker and it was... Fine) but it's never quite as solid as reading on Kindle or whatnot.

>>20264867
>read The First Law
>it's good
>read the standalone books
>it's great except for the last one
>read the Age of Madness
>mfw it went full reddit and is barely enjoyable
Is Joe Abercrombie burnt out?

>>20266895
He has about four characters he recycles and they're all shit

Just finished the Prince of Nothing trilogy by Bakker.
Am I supposed to be this angry at the complete lack of twists and turns? Everything went exactly as expected, Kellhus wins everything, the Holy War succeeds, yadda yadda. I'm reading Aspect Emperor now and hoping things might actually change at some point.
Also, Conphas deserved better, Zin was a bitch, and Cnaiur is best boy. Akka, the whore, and Kellogs can all fuck off.

I haven't read 'normal books' for years, so can someone who reads books year 2000-2010 and earlier remind whether describing character faces is common? From webnovels I can't recall a single instance of someone describing face features beyond eyes color, some distinct marks and hair shape and color. But I recall reading a lot of books that went into describing faces in details, as in cheek bones, face shapes, distance between things, ethnicity. I always ignored that because I'm bad at imagining faces, but only now I realized how strange it is that webnovels don't do that.

>>20266952
Typically you just paint broad strokes. If a character has a notably angular or round face it should be pointed out, but going into absurd detail is counterproductive because people will form their own picture regardless.
You can paint a picture very quickly with a very brief description
>A jolly, round faced man with ruddy skin and red hair done in braids

>>20266952
Faces aren't usually described except in the broad sense lately it feels like (sharp, angular features, wide-faced, round-faced, etc.), it's more the surrounding details so the reader can fill in the picture themselves.

>>20266983
>>20266990
don't forget shit like "a petulant mouth" or "a generous mouth"

>>20266999
That's more used to describe how they talk rather than how they look.

I am a bit more than halfway through Against the Darkness. I enjoy that despite sometimes telling us that the Gray Mouser is kind of a scumbag here and there, Leiber neves has to do the modern sequence where he dwells on it for pages to try and make us feel conflicted, it's just written straight to keep in our minds. I've gotten too burnt out on the opposite. Likewise I don't quite know what it was around the 400 page mark that made the whole collection feel a lot smoother and enjoyable to read, perhaps that a part of it is that there's more dialogue between Fafhrd and Mouser to make their friendship feel a bit more lived in, or that the city becomes even more of a character in neater pices of prose? Anyone else had the same experience?

>>20267005
i don't know about a petulant mouth but "a generous mouth" is a physical descriptor. i know because i googled it before making my post and i just got done reading lyonesse where he uses phrases like that to describe characters when they're introduced a lot

>>20267014
That feels more like a specific author's quirks than a particular description style.

i like vague descriptions. what i don't like is when they use 'cheekbones' to describe someone's looks.
i can never really imagine what the fuck it is supposed to describe and when i try, it is always uglier than it needs to be.
>muh high cheekbones

>>20267035
what does? usage of phrases like that? like i said, a generous mouth is definitely a physical descriptor
https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/mouth#:~:text=a%20generous%20mouth%20(%3Da,eyes%20and%20a%20full%20mouth.
i'm positive i've seen it elsewhere as well, lyonesse is just fresh in my mind and that's why i used it as an example. i suppose it's not impossible for "elsewhere" to just be the dying earth, vance's other most popular work but i don't think so.
you haven't encountered this phrasing before?

>>20267055
Not once, no. If something were to describe that, I'd usually see "full lips" or "plush lips" or something like that.

>>20264867
Any fantasy/sci-fi where the main character (or one of them) is genuinely evil?

Just finished re-reading A Canticle for Leibowitz.
Any recommendations for something uplifting?

>>20267098
Xianxia webnovel 'Reverend Insanity', that's the most evil I can recall in a moment.

'Prince of Thorns' by Mark Lawrence (books by him generally have 'evil' PoVs or Character, although more in the shade of grey than black)

Webnovel 'Everybody Loves Big Chests,' although it's more of a parody.

Depending what do you mean by 'evil' you could also try Finished Webnovel 'Practical Guide to Evil.'

i searched through yt and this seems like the only (sff) booktuber worth watching


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkIIJpFzGHN54KO_xKSnsaA

any other recs?

>>20267098
>>20267280
>Any fantasy/sci-fi where the main character (or one of them) is genuinely evil?
In addition, I check my notes about what I read and have some more possible stories:

'Star Wars: Darth Bane' trillogy by Drew Karpyshyn, not amazing but pretty good for a novel from a big franchise.

'Vicious' and its continuation 'Vengeful' by V.E. Schwab, superhero stuff but the stakes are personal and the scope of events pretty small, it's more of a story about bitter rivals going at each other.

Finished(?) webnovel 'The Iron Teeth: A Goblin's Tale,' about a hobgoblin raised by a human, pretty good for a monster fic. In theory the author was supposed to write continuation, but he wasn't soon for years. The ending is meh, but servicable, the story itself is decent.

A weird webnovel 'Autonomus Machine Arsenal' about a powerful rogue AI that tried to destroy humanity and got isekaied to fantasy land. I honestly didn't finish it, but the story was interesting.

You probably heard about famous Webnovel 'Worm,' the MC is not evil, but she's a villain that manages to justify absolutely everything she does, even the most fucked up things. Treated as evil by most of the characters in the story.

Is there any fantasy book for straight white males with a normal (not god almighty powerful) protagonist that leads a nation?

I think this summer I may re-read Book of the New Sun. I read the first half years ago and it completely went over my head.

>>20265058
Very good.

>>20267361
Yes, the Second Apocalypse.

>>20267361
Book of the Short Sun

>>20267170
for a christcuck fantasy book that isn't as mean-spirted and misanthropic as canticle, you can try the wolf in shadow series

>>20265058
It’s pretty decent. I honestly liked the second part of the series more. But even though I did enjoy it I’m honestly contemplating selling the books to get some money back because I feel like there is no way I’ll read them again. Something just felt off.

>>20266407
Tanjiro lofulamingo Sama

>>20266918
Just wait until the ending of The Aspect Emperor. That’s all the „unexpected“ you could want.

>>20267361
Book of the Long Sun and Book of the Short Sun fit this very well.

>>20267390
Based

>>20265612
Lower minds will never understand japanese brilliance.

>>20265612
>>20267580
cope

>>20267600
Where do western isekai LitRPG protags fit here.

>>20266490
read whatever you want, there's no right or wrong thing to read

Anything with bad ass female leads

>>20267413
not that anon but this looks like something I'd like so I appreciate it

>>20267647

>>20267647
gods war by kameron hurley

>>20267651
no problem, i got it from this thread too. it's definitely a fun read and not too long, i hope you like it.

I finished reading Terry Pratchett Hogfather. There are two quotes from that book i was familiar with, one about pic related the other one:
>Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape...(it goes on)
In the book i read neither of these fragments were present and i'm very confused. I did some digging but i can't find any info about these quotes. I did watch the Movie and "Humans need fantasy" quote is there, but not the sword one. Help. Did i pick up some weird different edition of Hogfather? Were Quotes never there?

>>20267706
Those quotes are definitely in the book. I'm not sure what could've happened there.

>>20267706
Did you accidentally buy the version of Hogfather that's a play?

>>20267490
Tanjiahdo but hey, I thought it had been Loflumingo this whole time until I double checked.

>>20265142
>When there isn't a conveniently placed mirror for the character to look into and describe their own appearance.

>>20264896
The series that started his decline imo. None of his stuff is that great but I prefer his shorter books that are half the length of those doorstops.

I've seen that there are chapter guides for Book of the New Sun. Would you guys recommend? As in, first reading a chapter yourself and only afterwards reading the chapter guide/summary. Sometimes I read a chapter and have no idea what any of it meant and feel like I'm not appreciating it properly.

Are there any you would recommend without spoilers for future chapters?

>>20268260
I'd just say don't plan it out, just read, and if you want to re-read any part at any time just do it.

>>20268260
Michael Andre-Driussi's chapter guide doesn't have spoilers IIRC. Anyway, I used it on my second read through and it helped immensely. My first read was just on my own and, while I enjoyed the books, I was rather confused.

>>20268260

There's a podcast that I listened to after each chapter and it helped me out a lot, I think it's called Azbalo soup or something to that effect, its been a while.

>>20267631
Both at once.

>>20268724
Honestly that checks out. They're generally less ruthless than xianxia protags but they're almost all fundamentally selfish.

>>20268809
I meant how they're all schizophrenic psychos who flip back and forth between the two multiple times per scene.

Please bros I need it...
Some book that (extensively) features a taecher/mentor figure
Charming, maybe flirty, maybe a bit stern at times but honestly cares about their student
So yeah, basically Sellen (without the bullshit end)
https://youtu.be/JdTILl2V8BA?t=1568

>>20268893
>maybe flirty,
Why would a teacher be flirty towards his student? go to lgbt for such recs (or just try random hugo/nebula/ny times bestseller)

>>20268966
>Automatically assumes teacher and student are male

Thoughts on beyond freedom and dignity by skinner? I'm thinking about reading it.

>>20268893
Write your own fetish

>>20269012
>talks as if most of fictional female mentor-female apprentice realtionships weren't extremely homoerotic.

desu it's kinda funny, people write lesbo mentorships, meanwhile a lot of Real Life male mentorships has ever been erotic. But that's just how people are, no matter the gender teachers tend to fuck their students, even marry them. It's easy when you are good at something your apprentice's passionate about. Girls often want to literally suck the mastery out of their teachers cocks. Fiction merely resembles that.

>>20269188
>Write your own fetish
Once, a wise man said "Why write, if not to indulge your own fetishes?" That's my own motivation for writing, Beautiful, interesting people going on epic quests and striving for something bigger than themselves, while at the same time fucking each other's brains out.

>In any event, it should be obvious that among nomads a determined 120-pound woman might be a more valuable fighter than a man of half again her weight, equally effective with the bow while tiring her mount far less. It should not be necessary to point out that women warriors are found throughout history, or that our own age has more than most.
What? But I thought you guys said Gene Wolfe was based...

I watched The Northman last night and loved it. Now I want to read more Viking Age books. Any good recommendations?

That "Origins of the Wheel of Time" book that is releasing later this year is going to reveal some secrets instead of just prattling on about Jordan's inspirations. At Jordancon the author said that the book would reveal who Nakomi really is and also that he was able to use all of Jordan's notes, including the secret ones that aren't publicly available. It's sure to breathe some life into conversations that have been stale for nearly a decade now.

>>20269188
I've tried a few times now but I fucking suck
Also it's not (just) a fetish

>>20268893
This was the love interest I randomly generated for my MC in last year's NaNo. Sadly I never got as far as introducing her.

>As Kellhus approached the building that stood before him, he reviewed the sheet of paper he held in his hand. A resume, Leweth had called it. To Kellhus however, such a thing was a key. He would use it to open this place to him, and with it he would secure a foothold in this new land. This place, the McDonald’s, was apparently this nation’s place of worship. After wandering through the frozen wastes of Canada, America had at first seemed a place of gross excess. In ways no less prominent than their swollen bellies, these people flocked to places such as this to partake in most holy communion. And he, Kellhus, one of the conditioned, would win both their hearts and their stomachs.

>He walked through the cheap plastic and glass doors of the establishment, and was greeted by a short dark-skinned woman, with a broad flat nose and listless black eyes. This, Kellhus realized, was a /nigger/. One of the people Leweth had spoken of on those long nights in his cabin. Deep in his budweisers, sitting before the warm glow of the television, Leweth would speak of a lazy race of men, descendants of slaves from far away Africa, itself a land of filth to the man. Kellhus had pet the man’s dog ever so calculatingly, wondering at how simple the man’s world was.

>Kellhus looked at the woman, stared at her face and saw through to her soul, laid bare like potter’s clay before him. He saw that the trapper had spoken true, at least for this woman. Simple as the man had been, this woman was almost bestial by comparison. How much power, he thought, his father must wield.

>“M’lady,” he said, with an air of confidence not unlike that had by a thuggish gangbanger, “I am here for a job interview.”

>Kellhus saw his words trickle through her mind like water droplets on a dry rock. “Yehh cuuuh i be back a moment,” the woman said in an oddly though not unexpectedly mannish voice. The woman walked to a back room, whispering to a coworker. With his Dunyain hearing, he easily heard her say “sheeyit white boi cute doe”. A few moments later, the manager of the establishment came out of her room.

>When Kellhus’ eye fell upon her, he felt a sense of shock. This woman resembled almost perfectly the meme the nonman shitposter had shown him that rainy night. “La goblina de la americas”, he had recalled of the impossible words, though he knew not how. He saw the same short stature, bulging eyes, head round like a bulb of onion, and in her face there were the same competing passions he saw in all men’s eyes, but curiously deadened. This woman, he realized, was dead inside. Her job had robbed her of joy, and yet she had no choice but to work.

>“Yess Meester Kellos? You are heere for de job interview?” Kellhus nodded, and followed the woman into the room.

Been working my way through Warhammer fantasy (old realm) books. I've read:
>All Gotrek and Felix
>Thanquol and Boneripper
>Ulrika the Vampire
>Knights of Bretonnia
>Rise of Nagash
Any other series particularly worth reading? No elves (unless it is about them dying horribly)

>>20269301

>>20267098
Kane series by Karl Edward Wagner.

Probably gonna be 2edgy4me, but I guess we'll find out.

>>20269860
Thanks

>>20264867
Has anyone here read Viriconium? What did you think of it? Can you recommend it (highly)? Could it be compared to some of Gene Wolfe‘s works?

>>20269720
Please, I need more of this

Thoughts on the bear and the maiden fair?

Is brandon sanderson considered a YA author? Am I too old to be reading fantasy books at 30?

>>20270199
you're never too old to do the things you enjoy

Walder Frey did nothing wrong

>>20270199
They republished Mistborn as YA to be very honest

>>20270273
I've only read Era 1 and it felt super YA most of the time

>>20270199
What he pushes as YA is basically child literature, and what he pushes as his normal stuff is basically YA.

>>20270213
I guess it's less about the genre, but more about the characters and how relatable they are to me. Just looking for books where the MC(s) are proper adults.

>>20270199
>>20270837
From what I've read, only Mistborn comes across as YA. All of his other works feature many characters who are leaders, scholars, artist, experienced, in their 30s, 40s, 50s. Even his young character still carry the weight of responsibility. He doesn't write in an explicit attempt to relate to young people.

>>20270877
None of which means it can't be YA. Ultimately, the difference between YA books and many adult books is simply the fact that the YA books are listed as YA and nothing else. YA is a simply a marketing label.
Sanderson's books are all incredibly simplistic and don't deal with any truly mature themes. They could easily have been considered YA had the publisher and author wished them to be.

Thoughts?

Modern fantasy/sci-fi scene is absolutely dire bros. Political agendas hamfisted into shit left right and centre. Publishers wouldn't even greenlight something like wheel of time nowadays because it has men and woman doing different things

Where can I find the Kane novels by Karl Edward Wagner (someone recommended them above)? I'm drawing a blank on libgen.

>>20271007
Unless you are a video gamer with a melted brain who absolutely must read contemporary gaymy genres, you have a massive mound of old genreshit to wade through. In fact, the passage of time has made it easier for you to filter the garbage nobody wanted to remember.

>>20271122
>Don't worry about the death of fantasy. Just re-read the same stuff from 50 years ago.
Rocks for brains.

>>20271162
>reread
Prove you have read all the good stuff from before the 90s.

Is this based on anything? I want to use it, but I want to know where it comes from first.

>>20271175
I haven't. But that still isn't an excuse for the death of modern fantasy. Point is: you're looking back 40 years for material. But what happens in 2060, when fantasy fans look back on the 2020s? What will they find? A bunch of pozzed garbage.

Meanwhile, the prose of old books becomes increasingly foreign, as the language used is further removed from modern language. And their simplistic styles are noticeably more jarring compared to the robust prose we've become accustomed to.

We're about to go through a revolution of AI, and I can't imagine kids from 2060 having to read the remedial ideas of AI from the 40s, when they barely had computers. Hell, I plan to still be alive in 2060. Old, but alive. And who knows... by that time, maybe I will have read all the good stuff from before the 90s... Then what do I read?

>>20271202
I can't wait for sandersbot to generate infinite fun action

>>20266642
It's still not out XD, I kinda forgot what happened in the 4 previous books but I don't want to reread

>>20266827
APGTE is my favorite web serial (or whatever it's called)
The end of the Drow Arc was amazing payoff.

How about cute dark elf girl + xianxia?

>>20271186
Looks like an off-shot of fantasy r/WojakCompass, I love those actually imaginative and coherent wojak world-building images.

>>20269720
Bravissimo, Anon.

>>20271186
The author is vanga-vangog on Devinat Art

>>20271121
https://www76.zippyshare.com/v/SDMTIEcC/file.html

Password: aroundjewsneversnooze

>>20268893
surely something like this must exist

>>20271162
bready good image, I am saving that

I just recently got into books. Is this hobby more alive than 5/10 years ago? And how is the future looking?

>>20271511
We live in a time of extremes. Either you take pozz hack crap or incel power fantasies. There's no nuance left.

>>20271534
Only in the West. Learn a new language and you'll see how many talented authors you have never heard of there are.

>>20271511
More books are being released now than ever before, even if most of it is trash the amazing works are made in dozens, whether published or as webnovels, without any artistic constraint.

>>20271545
what's a good language to learn?

>>20271553
If you want the most utility you're probably looking at countries with a high population. No point learning a language where there are only a handful of new things a year.
My recommendations are Japanese and Mandarin. I only learned the former but there's no way the latter doesn't have a ton of hidden gems as well.

>>20271323
Wow, thanks man. I really thought finding the author would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

>>20271344
Thanks a lot, man! You made my day.

>just learn mandarin bro so you can read throwaway AI written xianxia dogshit

>>20271642
you can read one of the greatest East Asian classics, Journey to the West, in its original language

>>20270877
What a fucking retardedly stupid conception of YA. No wonder so many morons and stans resist the label when they have no fucking clue what YA even means.

>>20271767
cringe

>>20271511
Depends on the country, but I feel it is becoming more mainstream. There are quite a lot of people listening to audiobooks of sff you wouldn't expect, Sanderson has quite a bit of mainstream reach.
Access to books has become easier because of this, pretty much every hole in the ground with 10.000 population has a bookstore that even has a fantasy/sci-fi shelf. And sometimes they even carry a few books you havn't seen before. Add to that the ability to buy books on amazon and how many forums, booktubers, whatever there are for recommendations it is very hard to run out of books at the moment.
That is not all positive tho, with the increase of mainstream viability some real cancer has snuck into the bookstores. Netflix book adaptions, or YA series picked up by Netflix. Those are always advertised front and center, make up like half of the stock, and are usually godawfull.
Also what can't be understated is how much more prominent female writers are now. It used to be that 80-90% of books on the shelves were written by men, and maybe 10-20% by women. Those books by women were usually pretty good, as they were the Robin Hobb's, K Le Guin's etc. so to prevail against the bias they had to show some real skill. The books by men varied more in quality, there was some real great stuff there, but also amateur author writes down his DnD campaign and tries to sell that shite.
Now it is in reverse. 80% of the books are written by women, and if a man ends on the bookshelf he is either already an established name or really talented. That is why I consider it fairly safe to just buy every book written by a man at the moment, chances are if he made it past the publishing bias he is at least decent.
What is interesting is that while most of the women are trash, they write a different kind of trash. It is hard to put into words, but it is definitly not inspired by DnD and vidya games as the shitty fantasy books by men, more by soap operas and in turn Netflix shows.
Not that there aren#t any great books written by women at the moment, there are probably even a few more than there used to be. The Goblin Emperor, The Priory of the Orange Tree, The Bear and the Nightingale, Piranesi, and they are an interesting breath of fresh air because great writing by a man and a woman is still somwhat different. The genders do not think alike. But it is disproportionally harder to find the good books by women, because they are drowned out in a sea of trash due to the current publishing market.

How the future is looking? Who knows. I hope sex boas dissapears from the publishing market, and we go closer to a 50/50 split in books written by men and women. Maybe not completely 50/50 as I think men will always write more and better sff due to more autism, but maybe 75/25 so that less trash ends up on the bookshelves.

Pic related is the kind of female written Netflix boosted trash that floods the book stores, also hilariously the author is also a jew.

>>20271552
this is completely irrelevant. there are so many great books written already, why should we care about what is being published this year or even 5 years ago? you don't even have to go into classics (although you should), just search among books written since 50 years ago, you will never exhaust them

>>20271511
I say so, especially with the rise of audiobooks. Thats how I started getting into reading again a few years ago, now my kobo is my main hobby

I'm halfway into way of kings and just saw that there's a reading order. how important is it, and should i stop once i'm done and follow it.

>>20271880
>if a man ends on the bookshelf he is either already an established name or really talented
If a book written by a man end up on a bookshelf then it is most likely he is liberal/feminist/gay author pushing sjw non white agenda.
Only good lit written by men are self published works that don't end up as ny times bestsellers, and even then it's hit or miss.

>>20265058
Ruined me for other fantasy.

are there any fantasy/horrors with clowns/jesters?

>>20271985
Apart from Warbreaker you don't really need to read anything else for Stormlight.

>>20271285
Man, there are so many things i'd like to ask about when it comes to how the story will develop but then again i'd rather not get spoiled.

>>20270199
Read this; it's short, no anime fights, no YA "romance" and the MC is an adult.

Did anyone else read this trilogy?

Did the dragon literally fuck Nezha?

>>20268893
You want Chinese BL, half of it is hardcore shizun-fucking.

books were a scientist or similar is being seduced by a spy to get vital information from him a la eva in mgs3 but he knew all along and he was just trying to enjoy the only possitive attention he's ever had through his whole life?

>>20271998
why do I effortpost in this thread again when everyone is a literal retard

>>20271880
Well sadly i noticed this trend. When sorting by bestsellers i see either womens romance bs or self help books by jews. Nothing of substance sadly, but when i dig deeper im able to find few good ones. Maybe thats the way it should be, normies who are too lazy to do a research will be forced to feed on the average literature.

Why did jannies delete my comment. Am I seriously not allowed to talk about the absolute state of modern fiction?

>>20264867
I just rewatched the Mad Max movies
any book recs that could go well with that?

>>20272222
The same reason you still frequent this place.
The same reason I have been discussing some of the same books for 6+ years in the hopes that somebody will read what I like.
We also have the retardation.

>>20272160
100%

Heavy shit

>>20272222
What effort? You posted your opinion which was objectively incorrect anyway.

>>20272432
No, no anon. If you write a train of thought verbal diarrhea long ass post then you are effortposting and automatically right.

>>20272320
If you say/type "pozzed" a pozzed janny gets upset and deletes your comment (some pozzed anons report it first)

>>20272453
I didn't even use any no-no words. I just lamented the way modern political agendas are being hamfisted into literature, which is objectively true if you pick up and read any modern genre fiction off the shelf. It's getting very tiresome, can't even complain on 4chan without some seething janny deleting your shit.

>>20272484
Isn't democracy, diversity, and inclusivity wonderful?
lol
lmao

>A character is described as a short average looking loser
>Women post fanart of him as a tall muscly strong jawed chad
This is honestly really common.

>>20272613
At this point you should really not be surprised.

>>20272613
Women are deranged, more news at 11.

>>20272613
there's lliterally nothing wrong with this

just curious, how do you guys like to categorize the author's name?

>>20272718
last name first

>>20265142
I kind of agree, one thing about books that annoy me is not being able to know what what a character exactly looks like.

>>20272753
I don't need exacts, but I need something. I generally have trouble keeping a character's appearance in mind unless it's reinforced at least a bit, though, so every so often a piece of their appearance should come about instead of just never describing them after their introduction. Though at least the latter actually describes them. I'm baffled at just how many protagonists go undescribed in stuff I've read.

finished this, it was good but kinda tedious at places

Which fantasy books have the best magic systems?
People shit on them a lot but knowing the limitations of the characters' powers allows for more technical, less contrived fights where the audience can actually follow their tactics and thought process.

>>20272421
>dragon turned an eleven-year-old into a super-healing unkillable fucktoy

Pedophilia isn’t surprising after that public toilet chapter in book one, but the xeno shit is wild.

>>20272886
>Which fantasy books have the best magic systems?
The ones that don't have any. You'll understand that after you've read a novel worth the term.

>>20272917
Predictable answer but whatever. Which are the books that do magic best then?

>>20272917
It's a tool like any other. They don't belong everywhere, but there's a subgenre they enhance.

>>20272886
Look for litrpg and asian fantasy. Typical western fantasy are more about drama and human personal relationships in a middle age setting with some shitty low tier magic elements.

>>20266471
Isn't he on the fucking cover?

>>20272929
>Look for litrpg and asian fantasy
Any recommendations?

>>20269951
>that cover
....

>>20272927
You are wrong. Faked gamey mechanics inherently hurt any story they are in. Of course this might often be difficult to see, because any story featuring a "magic system" is irredeemable trash.

>>20272886
I liked The Magicians. 99% of magic is complicated formulas, and the remaining 1% is insane poetic deep magic shit.

genuine question for fantasy readers: what are your reasons for reading fantasy? i only read sci-fi because it deals with a wide range of topics on human life, philosophical questions and interesting scientific ideas. What are the themes in fantasy books that catches your interest?

>>20272965
escapism

>>20272967
so its on a video game level

>>20272972
wrong, I only play video games for the deep themes and resonating commentary

>>20272961
>read only what I tell you to
>you don't have taste and must like what I like

>>20272965
Turning my brain off.

>>20272965
A lot of the times, or at least the ones I read, fantasy is about character development/progression. Sci-fi already has a character set and you're seeing the world develop. With the normie scifi shit I've read like Dune (at least the first novel) and Expanse series, it's much less personal than straight up fantasy books.

>>20272400
I am glad then that I am not here for the majority of the year

>>20272432
>>20272438
selfbump, and I guess niggers really don't set a foot into a bookstore under any circumstances if you havn't seen this yourself

>>20272160
Yes. I think people praise it too much purely on the grounds of it being Asian fantasy.

>>20273037
yeah i get that, i've read some PKD and few other classics and you are right, you need a defined character to see how would they react in a certain world/scenario. Although there isn't a strict lack of character development, for example Left Hand of Darkness

>>20264867
Are Shadowrun novels any good? There seems to be a fuckton of them.

>>20272965
Fiction is just applied ideas, morality and world-view. You either go out and debate with people, or craft fascinating stories which represent genuinely thought-out and interesting stories that reflect on philosophy, world and humanity's relation to both. Human condition something something. Escapism seems like a very base thing, people say that but I am not sure whether I truly ever read for escapism except for when I procrastinated.

When you read, Author of the story presents a certain world in which beings interact, represented to the best of Author's ability to portray. To tell Readers something, or at least make them indulge in certain feeling. To me, it was always about reading what Author will say about X. Thing X happens. What will the characters do? Which is the right thing to do? A question is asked, and Author answers, or at least presents several possible answers. This is what reading is for, especially Fantasy: What is the Answer to the provided Question?

It might sound a bit pretentious, but that's how I see fiction, people telling me something I don't know or I haven't thought about, rolled up in interesting fictional worlds that support the Answers.

Or maybe I'm just insane and an exception from normal readerbase. But I stand by the opinion that writing Fantasy or Sci-Fi requires knowledge from several different fields and how humans act, being simply applied Worldview/Philosophy.

>>20272961
Problem-solving in a story is fun. Or many people find it fun, at least. A problem needs constraints. You constrain magic by turning it into a system.
Doing this hurts the story in some ways while making it better in others. That's okay. Stories can specialize.
Systematization can be done tastefully, and it has various degrees. Prophecy as seen in Macbeth and Oedipus Rex can be considered a minor magic system. It has constraints. You know that certain things can't happen, but you don't exactly know what will. It gets more objectionable as you grow the scope and complexity, but it has its place.
There are many things I get out of literature that would be actively hindered by magic systems, but sometimes I'm in the mood for autistic exploration.

>>20272961
>Oh my god is that a RULE for MAGIC???!??!?!? IM GOING INSANE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>20272931
It's still shit to not actually describe him at all in the text.

>>20273081
thats all fine, the thing is I am not sure that fantasy deals with as many ideas as sf

>>20271614
Based.

>>20272942
Clearly influenced by your pic related since it's super edgy dark fantasy as well.

best magic systems
>the magic of xanth
>malazan
>harry potter
>the second apocalypse
>a wizard of earthsea

>>20273140
>thats all fine, the thing is I am not sure that fantasy deals with as many ideas as sf
I dislike the distinction between Fantasy and Sci-Fi, the supposed superiority of thought presented in Sci-Fi. To my experience, there is little. If anything it's Fantasy that comes out on top, because it does the same exploration of what humans would do with X, but supplies magic (or any other force) in place of Science. Sometimes even making magic part of Science. It doesn't play at 'what sort of technology we could acquire,' but instead deals with what consequences would it make.

It especially irks me when someone mentions that shitty book Hyperion or something similar as an example of good Sci-Fi. But such people simply reveal themselves as retards. Now, Dune can be mentioned as an interesting example of fiction, as to me it's more similar to Fantasy than Sci-Fi, but it's closely guarded by Sci-Fi fans as an example of how great the genre is. Amusing.

In the end, it's all about Power Systems (Like Magic systems, but in the end there's very little difference between Mana and Nano-Robots, some fiction even go as far as saying Magic is very advanced Science).

>>20272965
>>20273081
>It might sound a bit pretentious, but that's how I see fiction, people telling me something I don't know or I haven't thought about, rolled up in interesting fictional worlds that support the Answers.
I go out of my way to avoid literature like that, especially modern woke lit that deals with current year problems. I don't read fiction to be educated by some liberal asshole. An author will inevitably present his world view (real or made up) and if I like it and if writing itself is good then I will read it, and will drop it the moment I start being educated or the moment the author changes his worldview in his work.

>>20273094
>You constrain magic by turning it into a system.
how do you not turn it into the system? What is magic then? How can anyone cast a spell if there is no system behind it? The closest I can think of this is some harry potter nonsense, where magic just happens without any explanation why or how (basically just pulled out of harry ass) and we are just supposed to believe it, but HP is a kids drama story and has little to do fantasy.

>>20273208
>I go out of my way to avoid literature like that, especially modern woke lit that deals with current year problems. I don't read fiction to be educated by some liberal asshole. An author will inevitably present his world view (real or made up) and if I like it and if writing itself is good then I will read it, and will drop it the moment I start being educated or the moment the author changes his worldview in his work.

But I hate being patronized and preached to as well! But this is not what this is about. And if you think only modern media do that, then you are horribly mistaken. All fiction does that, all the time, and if you haven't noticed it's only because you are more sensitive to modern talking points than older ones. I believe that earnest exploration of ideas and worldviews is what fiction should do, but if someone intends to write a story with a moral (which has been done since the dawn of time), then it's not wrong to do that. But there's a line between presenting something with an Answer to it, and declaring to everyone everwyhere that this is the one true anwer and there's no debate whether that's correct. Which I assume is what you are having problem with, as a lot of books do that. But most of the books are simply trash.

>>20273208
i only read 60s-70s sf, dont care, even the progressive stuff from that era is pretty based

>>20273179
0/10; harry potter doesn't have a magic system

>>20273267
then how are wizards able to use magic? there are clearly rules, especially in the later books where there's a mention of advanced wizards who can cast magic without speaking out loud. there's something there

>>20273277
There's something there but Rowling goes out of her way to avoid actually teaching about how magic works in the magic school setting.

>>20273284
bc it's books for children to read after school. who would want to go to school in a book you read after sitting through a school day

>a tranny just released a book (through a tradpub of course) that is basically JK Rowling murder porn

>>20270993
Boring

>>20273284
>>20273277
I wish someone wrote a book in which there's no real magic system, but there are certain rules, cultural or even bureaucratic, where people do fights by making other people act according to the rules, or even send people to fight like pokemons. Everyone would act if it was magic, never calling it that, but using expressions and treating it with reverance a real magic deserves. Some kind of parody on magic systems, where the magic system does not posses any magic, yet the plot remains the same as if it had and people act accordingly. It would be hilarious. You could even write such book about normal office clerks battling each other, using regulations as power.

yes sanderson is my favorite author how could you tell?

>>20273312
Sound retarded af

>>20273221
When God turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, what's the system behind it? Kabbalah may have an answer for all I know, but Genesis sure doesn't.
You have to distinguish between the work itself and the implied world. You have a magic system if you let the audience look under the hood.
Harry Potter has much more of a magic system than many other works. You know many of the rules and limits.
(The actual in-universe source of the magic is an unrelated issue. You can have a clear source but barely any system or vice versa.)

>>20272965
There is next to no difference between 'sf' and 'fantasy'.

>>20273371
>When God turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, what's the system behind it? Kabbalah may have an answer for all I know, but Genesis sure doesn't.
there is no system, that's why in bible it is just works and you have just believe it, it's garbage writing that should not be repeated

>You have to distinguish between the work itself and the implied world. You have a magic system if you let the audience look under the hood.
So let audience look under the hood because if an author does not then the story simply becomes simple fiction with some fantasy elements. Which is fine if one is writing fiction not specifically fantasy.

>>20273417
Congrats. This is some of the stupidest shit I've ever read. Either that, or it's brilliant bait.

>>20273417
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/

>>20273428
Are you upset that anon didn't like your religious analogy? QQ

>>20273417
>there is no system, that's why in bible it is just works and you have just believe it, it's garbage writing that should not be repeated
There absolutely is something like a magic system in the Bible, albeit it's soft magic system. Certain individuals can perform miracles if they are worshipping the Source of Power (God), or simply be given grace by him. Sometimes just a prayer is enough. There's also the opposite of that power from Satan, which can be tapped into by performing dark rituals (Diabolism).
Of course, the magic system isn't coherent, but a lot of people tried their hands at writing fanfiction of it.

>>20273450
No. I'm not religious. However, the notion that a fantasy series needs to let you know how the magic works or it's a bad fantasy series or not fantasy at all is an absolutely brain dead opinion.

>>20273446
Wow this fucker has the gall to make his own "laws" and talk about magic systems but completely blows off Robert Jordan who basically pioneered it and whose books he finished. Holy shit I hate sandercunt so much.

>>20273399
there are countless sf books that are 200 pages long, deal with one story and set of characters and that is it, while fantasy is mostly about long ass sagas, world building, countless characters etc

>>20273460
>how the magic works
unnecessary
>what magic can do
very important

You should have at least a general idea of who's capable of what and how difficult it would be for them to do it. In that sense even Harry Potter has a magic system. some spells are harder than others, older more experienced wizards are better at magic, we have clear examples of the difference between students, adults, teachers, and experts.
They key is to balance it right like a boxing match or wrestling. Enough information to have a general idea of who can beat who, but not so much that you're 100% certain what the outcome will be. Either extreme is too boring, if you know what will happen why read it, and if you have no idea what will happen every conflict has no frame of reference or stakes.
Actually it's exactly like clues in a mystery, you can't give too few or too many or the story breaks down.

>>20273460
It is. If magic plays minor role in the story, if it is almost completely separated from and has little to no effect on the world then the story is very much fiction with fantasy and mystery elements and not fantasy.

>>20273081
Finally, someone who gets it. Reading is a discussion with the author, you get an insight into their core character and philosophy in a way that you'd never get from a prepared essay. Because books are so long and contain so many details it's almost impossible to conceal yourself or hold things back. And fantasy is the best genre for it, because there's absolutely nothing between you and the author's vision. No restrictions on realism, plausibility, setting, or characters.

>>20273522
Like I said, it's a brain dead opinion. First, there are tons of other fantasy elements a story can have other than just explicit magic. Things like dragons or goblins or talking animals or whatever.
Secondly, even if the magic does play a large role in the story it doesn't have to be explained. Something like LotR does this.

>>20273507
Yes but magic is not just fighting, it is clear who is stronger wizard, but what about spells that don't involve fighting, in HP there is magical academy with a ton if fancy magical things and magical creations, and sometime a relatively weak character casually waves his magic wand and almost a fucking miracle happens. That is just total lack if any kind of balance.

>>20273529
>Reading is a discussion with the author, >you get an insight into their core character and philosophy in a way that you'd never get from a prepared essay.
it is not discussion but very much a prepared long essay. A reader reads the book, a reader does not have a debate with imaginary author. If authors portrayed character and philosophy allingns with the reader then he will continue reading the book.

>Because books are so long and contain so many details it's almost impossible to conceal yourself or hold things back. And fantasy is the best genre for it, because there's absolutely nothing between you and the author's vision. No restrictions on realism, plausibility, setting, or characters.
There is obviously a restriction of authors imagination and his capabilities as a writer.

Isn’t Harry Potter’s magic system, at least the spellcasting system, super basic and logical? Implicitly, it seems like it’s all about channeling magic with a certain mix of concentration and willpower/emotion. At the most basic level, magic just comes out, like kids doing magic dying-to-protect magic. At the next level, verbal spells help kids and shit wizards learn how to channel magic, like riding a bike with training wheels. At the next level, the training wheels come off and you do non-verbal spells. At the Dumbledore/Voldemort level it’s presumably pure channeling or a more complicated syntax for channeling, and this just isn’t spelled out in the books because Harry isn’t at that level.

>>20273557
>First, there are tons of other fantasy elements a story can have other than just explicit magic. Things like dragons or goblins or talking animals or whatever.
obviously if there are TONS of magical elements that are part of the story and the fictional worlds then it is fantasy.

>Secondly, even if the magic does play a large role in the story it doesn't have to be explained. Something like LotR does this.
It doesn't have to be but it should be for it be a good fantasy story (there are exceptions but on average soft magic sucks)

>>20273529
>No restrictions
One big restriction: you have to spend time and mental space explaining your world. This is costly. Think of it in terms of budget. What does it cost you, what does it get you? It costs quite a lot, so it better get you a lot as well.
This is the reason that many fantasy stories will say "yeah, that's an elf" instead of designing a humanoid species from scratch. It's shorthand. You get to take your audience's previous experience as a base and you only have to explain the differences.
Fiction that takes place in the real world gets a lot more mileage out of this. You can say "New York" and have the reader fill in tons of landmarks and history from memory. Fan fiction takes it to an extreme: not even the characters have to be introduced.
You couldn't write, say, American Psycho as a fantasy novel, or if you did it would be a lot worse. Patrick Bateman can spend just a dozen words saying that he wants to pay the bill to have an opportunity to show off his platinum American Express card, and the reader will understand the nuances involved, the social ritual, the credit card both as a proof of wealth and as a symbol of consumerism, the bizarreness of doing that with people who know fully well he's rich. How do you do that if credit cards are something you made up? Do you add a long digression somewhere explaining all the background just to set up this one subtle line? That's not worth it, so you don't get the opportunity to add that line, and the work is impoverished.
Sometimes a fantasy world is the way to go, but not always, not even most of the time. It's incredibly restrictive in its own way.

>go on yt
>look up book haul
>see the results
>literal trannies, faggots and feminists

Why is that the case

>>20273601
because we live in the dark age of trannyism

>>20273598
I mean writing is just language right? Of course there's an infinite number of ways to say something, some better than others. I just mean in terms of grasping the author fantasy is much easier for the reader since everything has to come out of their head.
More words can muddle the story, but they also expose the author. In American Psycho the amount of time the author gets is much less than in a fantasy book. He can make up for that in skill or nuance, but it's much harder.
Just like talking, obviously it's easier to get a read on someone from a long meandering ramble than a short concise statement.
Every time you can skip writing something, it's less information to work with. You get the idea faster, but only the general common understanding, not the specific understanding of the writer.
Fantasy is, in theory, the genre of no limits, everything can be new, everything can be described. And they tend to be long books too, with lots of digressions. Anything the author wants can happen, and that exposes him more than a highly restricted choice.

In other words, you can read a man by observing a game of chess, but only if you and him are both highly skilled players. But even if you're both idiots a simple undirected conversation can give you a deep understanding of each other.

>>20273593
>on average soft magic sucks
Because on average, most fantasy books suck.
But, on the other hand, nearly every single book with "hard magic" is absolute dogshit. Pretty much the only halfway decent series is WoT and even then its magic is only hardish.

>>20272217
What no pussy does to a mf

>>20273626
>In other words, you can read a man by observing a game of chess, but only if you and him are both highly skilled players. But even if you're both idiots a simple undirected conversation can give you a deep understanding of each other.
That is a very simpe view. What if a man pretends to be an idiot to deceive the other person. What if a man is an idiot but just good at chess?

>>20273626

>>20273673
Jesus fugg. This is what happens when you have spergs making your fansubs.

>>20273626
>In American Psycho the amount of time the author gets is much less than in a fantasy book.
And why do you think that is? Authors can choose how long to make their books. There are non-fantasy works that are very long. Would American Psycho be better if it were twice as long?

If a ramble contains necessary exposition then that constrains it. If a ramble really is just about whatever the author wants to say then it gets to be more efficient. Ada or Ardor has a whole chapter that's essentially just Nabokov explaining his theory about the nature of time perception. I didn't like it, but in terms of broadcasting the author's thoughts it's surely more effective than a ramble that has to include dry facts about invented geography.
(Ada or Ardor is an interesting case because it actually takes place in a fantasy world, but it doesn't have much in the way of exposition and the aforementioned chapter isn't about that world in particular.)

Fantasy is inefficient. Non-fantasy could convey even more if it used the same number of words.
Sometimes your story is best served by including many things that don't exist in reality, and then fantasy is worth it. But it's not inherently more revelatory about the author.

>>20273701
>better
>more efficient
We're talking about different things here. I'm not talking about the story, just the author. The more loosely constructed, inefficient, overly long, and unedited a work it, the more the author behind it is exposed and the more you learn about them.
A perfectly crafted, sleek, and polished masterpiece reveals only what the writer wants, and can effectively mislead you in almost any direction.
A bad lie makes it obvious what the con's motivation is, a good lie also lies about the teller's character.

If the author intends to reveal his thoughts and opinions, then the better the story is the more you know. But if he doesn't want to show you something, then the worse the story is the more you learn.

>>20273758
>The more loosely constructed, inefficient, overly long, and unedited a work it, the more the author behind it is exposed and the more you learn about them.
I don't understand. If I am reading a book of fiction why then would I want to learn about the author instead?

>>20273782
Why bother reading fiction in the first place? Because it's interesting. It lets you treat every book as a mystery, where the culprit is the author, and by unmasking them you reveal the true nature of their story.
Psychoanalyzing the author makes bad or mediocre books more interesting and reveals more detail and nuance in books you already liked.

>>20273812
A book is a final product product, a result of hard work of an author, once the words are recorded on paper or digitally they and the book are "outside" of an author. A separate entity. The book could then be what you described or it could be completely opposite if it or something else entirely in which case any such analysis is pointless.
Needless to say I don't analyse it like that, because I just don't care about the author, only his work (if its good)

>>20271202
I come back to see my post deleted. Why? Was it the use of the word "pozzed"?

>>20273634
I'd argue Wheel of Time is soft magic pretending to be hard magic because there's no real clear limitations on what magic can actually DO. Each magic thing only does the one thing, but there's no greater limitations on the magic itself.

>>20271784
If you don't want people confusing the genre "Young Adult" to mean that it features young characters, then don't call it "Young Adult".

>>20273911
It's definitely more hard since there are set power levels for each character but weaker characters are able to defeat more powerful enemies by being more cunning and using the rules of the world against their enemy, although significantly weaker characters are pretty much fucked, much like in real life. I think he struck a great balance compared to super autistic magic systems while having something consistent and well thought out.

>>20273927
YA means the target audience. Generally speaking, YA books are not too complex, don't have overly complicated or dense language and whatnot. They're not as simplistic as children's literature, but they're clearly aimed at a younger reading level.

>>20273910
Yes, janny has an hiv/aids, so mind your language

You guys ever wonder what if Animorphs was written competantly by a single author or aingle group of dedicated authors with an actual vision who put thought and effory into the series and also wrote it for a demographic older than pre-teens?

>>20273956
OK, so if YA books are simplistic and meant to appeal to young adults, then wouldn't a piece of the appeal pie be to write stories *about* young adults? Or even teens, because people love reliving their highschool/college years, and imagining if they had powers or whatever.

>>20273983
is that just furry degeneracy? how on earth did it make onto tv?

>>20273983
It had a lot of fluff filler for sure but for the most part it was actually killer.

>>20274045
No, I'm sure furries jacked off it to it but it's actually great, if you remember the old pre-internet days it's a fuck of a nostalgia trip.

>>20272116
There's some arcs that are certainly better than others, I would say the transition from book 6 to 7 was a bit rough, but everything before that I liked. I did get burned out from the beginning of vol 7 but that's because I binged the entire serial in a couple days.

>>20274045
Forgot to add, don't watch the TV series, it's trash, just a money grab.

>>20272160
I didn't like it. I know the entire series is some sort of retelling of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War and colonial interference in China, but the entire story just felt unplesant. Just felt like endless suffering for the main character and cast.

>>20273983
>You guys ever wonder what if Animorphs was written competantly by a single author or aingle group of dedicated authors with an actual vision who put thought and effory into the series and also wrote it for a demographic older than pre-teens?
Wasn't there a serious fanfiction of Animorphs that got a bit of fame? I recall many people talking about it. I think that's the one:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/5627803/chapters/12963046

It's even finished!

Just finished reading this on RR, thought it was pretty good despite a few problems. What do I read next? Already read shit like Cradle, Mage Errant, Skyward, Red Rising, and Stormlight.

>>20274148
>thought it was pretty good
yikes!

>>20274148
Invisible Dragon

Animorphs was superb but for me, it was Everworld.

>>20274243
Nah it was way too schizo

>>20274148
You want Progression Fantasy or just another good webnovel? Try Worm, it's superhero stuff, but grimdark and likely the best take on super heroes you will ever read.

Optionally, try the Wandering Inn, it's a masterpiece.

>>20273695
>he doesn’t appreciate peak /a/

Stop making me feel old.

>>20274148
Enjoy going down the rabbit hole of self publishing.

>>20268175
>The series that started his decline imo
That was the second Mistborn novel.

>>20274393
>v3
man I hope you guys are at least refining these lists because I remember finding the absolute worst written shit I've ever read even by the genre standards

>>20274408
I have read only three of these (Solo Leveling only partially) and they're generally competent but not THAT engrossing. Enough to keep me reading for the most part. Maybe some of the others are better. Also why is Mother of Learning even on the list? Isn't it neither isekai nor gamelit?

>>20274393
>the only korean one is fucking solo leveling

>>20274416
That's probably just there as a popularity thing (though how it got popular in novel form I have no idea, at least the manhwa has decent art to carry it because god it is a nothing story).

>>20274420
It doesn't even have Connecticut Yankee. This was not a chart made with quality writing in mind.

>>20274422
I'm surprised it isn't there, actually, given Wizard Knight and The Magicians are.

>>20274422
>>20274429
Because both of those have actually magic, not magical realism or science fooling the rubes.

>>20274438
I see you did not get to the end of Connecticut Yankee

>>20274416
Why don't you go order piss from your favourite softcore porn girl group (read kpop) and leave books to people who enjoy them?

>>20274445
bro you cant just read web novels written by foreign amateurs, you have to read the even shittier ones written by american amateurs

>>20274442
Yeah, I got filtered.

>>20274045
Lol, brain broken zoomer

>>20274090
>>20273054
I’m on book two, but I agree that the MC is a piece of shit who just seems to bumble from bad situation to bad situation, and who doesn’t have a consistent personality other than being a huge bitch. The tone is totally inconsistent and the plot meanders horribly. Shadow Campaigns is a much better military story with a female MC soldier with supernatural powers, Hundred Thousand Kingdoms is a much better story about an angry brown woman possessed by a deity, and fucking Cross Ange is a better clusterfuck starring a huge bitch.

>>20269720
It's should have ended with the woman telling Kellhus that they don't accept in person resumes and he needs to apply online.

OK, friends, here is an actual ranking of the asian stuff.

*Finished and Fully Translated*
Legitimately Good:
>The World After the Fall
>Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint
Fun and Satisfying:
>The Second Coming of Gluttony
>The Novel's Extra
Decent:
>Solo Leveling
>Kumo Desu ga Nani ka?
>Everyone Else is a Returnee
>Never Die Extra
>I Came Back and Conquered it All
>A Returner's Magic Should be Special

*Ongoing Story or Translation*
Legitimately Good:
>SSS-Class Suicide Hunter
>FFF-Class Trashero
Fun and Satisfying:
>The Darkness was Comfortable for Me
>Isaac
>Matan's Shooter
>Max Talent Player

>>20274522
FFF-Class Trashero is great from what I read, but I put it off until it was finished. I tried Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint and I just didn't click with it. It felt very... Just kinda eh? Solo Leveling I dropped because the protagonist is just bland, and A Returner's Magic was good for a while but it went to uninteresting points when the protagonist got absurd reality warping shit.

The Benne Gessirit referring to the Matres as whores is some very high level satire

>>20274316
Thank you for the feedback, 2016+ tourist.

>>20274408
It's one guy making that list, newfriend

>>20274522
You forgot Tower of God and calling Solo Levelling decent is laughable. I admittedly don't know about the others.

>>20274561
Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint probably isn't going to appeal to everybody. Its authors have a pretty distinctive melancholy style.
Take a look some time at The World After the Fall. Same authors as ORV, but it hits their style from the very beginning, while ORV starts off as a more standard web novel.
>>20274622
Tower of God is manhwa, not a novel. If you did not care for Solo Leveling, I would not recommend anything in the Decent category. They are all equally shallow popcorn stories.

>>20274522
Is this korean list?

>>20274640
Kumo and The Darkness was Comfortable for Me are Jap, but otherwise yeah. I just ranked all the stuff in my novel reading app I'd give a 5/10 or more to.

>>20266642
Here it is
https://www23.zippyshare.com/v/tHcr2DUp/file.html

Reading Sea and Shadow. One thing I like about Wight is he has no use for low magic fantasy settings. Right off the bat you've got a wizard/thief boat captain fighting godzilla with a bound titan of his own.

>>20274591
>call Honored Matres whores
>proceed to /ss/ Duncan and Miles

>>20274708
Hope you enjoy those, I generally did, but the split books thing felt... Unnecessary in a way.

>>20274718
>/ss/
?

>>20274408
It’s one guy and he doesn’t know what isekai and gamelit

>>20274749
I mean the broad majority of the list are those, it's just not really a curated list or anything. It's literally just a random grab-bag of ones that are sort of known.

>>20274736
It's sad that you're not an enlightened individual that enjoys Sad Panda.

>>20274781
Should have seen the first and second version.

>>20274801
Were they even worse? The only one I definitively can say doesn't really belong on the current list at all is Mother of Learning because that is neither isekai nor gamelit.

>>20274591
Is there an audiobook version of Dune that isn't abridged or incomplete?

>>20274828
Are the Simon Vance ones not unabridged?

>>20274826
There were stories that were neither.

>>20274847
Does the anon just not give a fuck and went "this shit was on RR it's probably one or the other".

>>20274861
Didn’t give a fuck and only started giving a fuck after people gave him shit.

>>20274865
Why even be the one putting the list together if you don't give a shit.

>>20274884
Attention, mostly.

>>20274861
I remember a Library of Mount Char being in the list, until he was bullied to drop it.

>>20274736
Lurk a LOT more.

You guys ever read these?

>>20274943
The first is very good, but it's frustrating to read the sequels as the MC basically has to traverse the same character arc in every book

>>20274943
yeah I read them as a kid, great sutff. I remember one scene where the MC got stuck in a cocoon and i think it gave me a mummification fetish

>>20274974
Agree with this. First book is basically flawless kiddie lit, like the first Artemis Fowl.

>>20272861
I didn't really care for it.

>>20274943
I read them when I was younger and recently reread them just this year to see if they held up. They mostly did, it suffers from every bit of Nathaniel's character development basically happening between books except near the end of the third so he's a different person nearly every time.

>>20274884
>Why even be the one putting the list together if you don't give a shit.
Someone put reverend Insanity on top of a list because he was afraid that the person who keeps shilling that garbage would go nuclear.

>>20274600
What's wrong with you

>>20275045
That's different, though, that's just a guy being tentatively decent to a book to avoid a shitposter shitposting, the list is just somebody who either doesn't read these things or doesn't care putting together a list with things that don't fit.

>>20275046
Some people don’t want to discuss and just want to shitpost.

>>20274736
Don't mind the others. Their minds have been twisted by porn. /ss/ is another way of saying straight shota. A relationship between an adult woman and a young boy.

>>20275060
Still though, why inflate the rating of a book if its shit?

>>20275105
Because the last time deny him, he went on a 40 to 60 post rant about how good Reverend Insanity is or something.

>>20275155
Overreacting to a minor slight with overwhelming dick-waving force is very on-brand for a xianxia fan at least.

>>20275164
That’s the issue though, it wasn’t even a slight. Reviewa anon just said he wasn’t going to review it and gave legitimate reasons as to why.

>>20275164
>dick-waving force is very on-brand for a xianxia fan at least.
Nah, don't lump us with him. Dude's an ass who can't accept no for an answer.

>>20273983
It’s literally been stated several times that it was written by applegate and her husband.

>>20275060
>That's different, though, that's just a guy being tentatively decent to a book to avoid a shitposter shitposting
Nah, that's the issue, though. Fag can't accept the story he likes isn't that good, so instead of taking it in a mature manner, he shitposts and throws a tantrum.

>>20275046
Your newfag vernacular speaks for what you are.

>>20275299
This. Other Xianxia enjoyers can accept this, but not him for some reason.

Make the new thread already you lazy faggots

New thread. I don't normally make them. So sorry if I fucked something up.
>>20275366
>>20275366
>>20275366

>>20275367
Pro-tip, wait until page 8 or 9 and ignore these type of fags, >>20275361 they just want to be first to shitpost because they got no life.

>>20275367
Seconding, wait until the thread is in page 8 or 9. And ignore faggots who want a thread made early because they're just shitposters waiting to shit up the new thread

>>20275404
>>20275395
I'll keep that in mind for next time.
I actually started making the thread before he complained. I was just getting anxious is all. Wasn't sure if someone was going to swoop in or not. And besides, on faster boards, page 7 is practically 5 minutes away from death. That's what I'm accustomed to, so my internal clock is faster than this board's pace. But yeah, I'll wait until page 9 next time.

>>20275427
>And besides, on faster boards, page 7 is practically 5 minutes away from death. That's what I'm accustomed to, so my internal clock is faster than this board's pace. But yeah, I'll wait until page 9 next time.
/lit/ is a slow board, it'll take a while to reach page 10.

>>20275427
Nah, no problem, just wanted to give you a warning since >>20275361 has been bitching about not having a new thread being made at around 310. Just ignore them that’s all. And page 9 is the sweet spot to make a new thread.

>>20275427
>Wasn't sure if someone was going to swoop in or not.
There's a guy who makes these threads and he seems pretty dedicated, so you don't have to worry about making a new thread since he does it.

So I'm reading Bakker's Prince of Nothing series and I'm on the first book chapter 7 and [spoiler warning I guess] Xerius just casually mentioned how he had a sexual relationship with his mother and she was the first one to make him orgasm. Did I miss something earlier in the book or does this just come out of nowhere?

>>20276366
You should read a better story