/lit/ - Literature

>>20257505
>Imagine trying to become an academic in 2022

The American college system is in collapse.

>>20257505
We don't care, should have learned to code

>>20257505
Based, fuck 90% of ac*demics.

>>20257505
Good. Academics can reap what they sow. Not feeling so smart now, eh, sweaty? Fuck academics.

Imagine thinking it’s a good idea to get a PhD in 2022

Any thoughts on why they would do this? The only thing I can think of in the current climate is to make sure that ideological conformity is absolute.

>>20257570
That's probably a factor, but the reality is that a lot of professors slack off after tenure and don't really do much work, especially old ones. They need to retire so that younger researchers can take over.

>>20257570
>The only thing I can think of in the current climate is to make sure that ideological conformity is absolute.
First thing I thought too, but it seems like they already do that anyway. The only academics who aren't 100% hardcore libshits are like, 70.

>>20257566
What should I do if I genuinely want to teach? Do you think people will accept my bachelors credentials if I present videos well online?

>>20257570
Maybe but not in the way you think.

The CRT panic is big in the South. This is their way to get rid of professors who they think promote it too much.

>>20257581
Good for them, you let that sort of resentment and guilt take root and before you know it you're restricting algebra classes for talented students.

>>20257581
>This is their way to get rid of professors who they think promote it too much.

In bizarro universe maybe. Not on this planet.

>>20257580
You literally don’t need any degree if you’re well respected in your field.

There’s writers who never went to college but because they were able to be published they get hired to teach writing.

>>20257505
Bye bitch!

>>20257590
It’s Georgia. Even though it’s shifting blue cause of Atlanta doesn’t mean the rest of the state isn’t still very conservative.

>>20257505
Yeah, good. OK.

>>20257597
Basically, in national elections like the Senate or President they might be more blue because much of the state is in and around Atlanta.

But for state government elections it’s still pretty conservative, the other parts of the state still very red.

>>20257615
Georgia will go back to being red in 2024, imo. 2020 was a one-off due to the frenzy over racism motivating Dems to get out and vote. If the Democrats can't create another Civil Rights issue for the upcoming cycle they won't be able to hold onto Georgia.

>nooooooooooo, now I’ll have to get actual work done instead of just resting on my laurels and publishing a decade and three articles every decade!

If the college system collapses, what’s going to replace the marker of education for employers?

>>20257642
Twitter checkmarks

>>20257642
In ~10 years when zoomers have grown up? Literacy.

>>20257642
The college system won't collapse, a lot of humanities professors are going to get fired though. How much more research is there to be done on these texts really?

>>20257642
Nepotism and identity

>>20257642
Only the humanities part will collapse. STEM is still going to be there.

>>20257581
The south is doomed unless they run the yanks off

So, a bunch of humanities professors will get fired and this is supposed to be bad?
Oh no, Professor Goldstein, the author of "Queer Perspectives on Dante" will get fired, how will society recover.

>>20257631
Basically. I dunno, it’s not like I prefer teachers to be flimsy wage workers, but the tenure system is kind of gay too. Talk to most phd candidates or grad students, particularly in the humanities since the STEM ones often find work elsewhere, and many will complain endlessly about how abusive the academy feels. Not just because they’re forced to be adjuncts and shit, but also because they see the cliquishness and see how tenure faculty are also status positions. Even some of the STEM ones will note it, lamenting that publishing and research can be highly controlled by people who basically just have social clout in the academy. Maybe it is unavoidable in the long run, but the academy is rotted. The fact they can’t even cling to tenure is evidence of it, they are fat and lazy and administration is just gutting them while they whine about it. The grad students have little reason to align with the tenure faculty in some kind of labor revolt because the tenure faculty treats them like underlings and enjoys gatekeeping, so they all understand there is nearly no hope of getting tenure anyways. Like I said, just a rotten system.

Nooooo! Not the heckin' tenure!

>>20257700
The academy was going downhill with the increase of administration positions that sucked up the budget.

Also why colleges the way they are. The administration treats students as customers, and if the customers are dissatisfied (IE, a professor said a no-no word), the admins side with the customers/students.

Also the reason why college is easier now, it ain’t just computers making research faster. Almost everyone needs to graduate or else potential customers will think it’s not easy, and won’t pay for it.

>>20257505
Wow, that's really great. Maybe they'll shut their mouths and teach their subjects objectively instead of ejaculating their political opinions and grievances on cohorts of young Americans.

>>20257668
i had a junior level undergraduate english class on old english literature, this was like 4 years ago or so

the professor had us go to this website. I forget its name, it was similar to Jstor, but it was oriented toward graduate papers on literature related subjects

anyways, we were told that we had to pick a paper on old english literature and write a criticism of it

the reason i bring this up is because the website recorded how many people had read every paper (similar to youtube viewcount) as a number right next to the link to the paper

i was scrolling down the website catalog in absolute awe

there were thousands of fucking papers and on this website and all of them (with maybe 20 exceptions) had 1 view, which i assume is either the guy who uploaded it, or maybe their professor checking that they had uplaoded it successfully or something

i can't remember anymore the exact nature of these papers. I think they were grad students and """researchers""" (like employed university research professors) but it might have only been grad students

in either case, the amount of pointless bullshit that is going on to produce the appearance of productivity is astounding

i remember just searching random buzzwords like "Gender Chaucer" or "Race Shakespeare" or "Queerness Milton" and each would yield hundreds (or thousands) of results

these departments are completely bloated by hoardes of people who do nothing but write bullshit papers that could be matched in quality by an AI that just shits out buzzwords onto a page

>>20257642
A more rigid class system where only who you know gets you a job.

So basically, you’d have to be born into it.

>>20257642
> replace the marker of education for employers
An iq test and interviews? We’re already at the point where grade inflation and ubiquitous education has made this “marker” useless. Only a handful of prestige educations are noteworthy to begin with. Even in STEM they want you competing directly with Pajeets and Changs where cheating is entirely normalized and half of them don’t know anything they’re supposed to and just wing it.
Somehow the system is fine with this and just evaluating them on a case by case basis. Why do we need this paper chase again?

>>20257732
>iq test

That’s a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen if a company requires that for applicants.

>>20257732
is it legal in the US to hire based on IQ testing?

I thought I remembered reading that it was not, but maybe that was just for federal jobs

Either way, you are right that an IQ test (or something like it) will be the only real way to test quality. Most of these fucking colleges are going to stop even looking at standardized test scores in the next few years

>>20257745
We’ll just rename it aptitude test sweaty.

There’s thousands of potential foreign students who are clamoring for a degree from an American university because even a mid-level state college is better then most foreign colleges.

So the colleges will recruit more of those students and reap money from then.

The system goes on.

>>20257525
>We don't care, should have learned to code
CS department is the largest department at Georgia Tech

>>20257749
They literally got rid of standardized tests so that they can accept less Asian applicants.

It’s going to be great once that Harvard lawsuit wins at the majority-conservative Supreme Court and any college that receives government funds can no longer do affirmative action.

>>20257752
>even a mid-level state college is better then most foreign colleges.

is this going to continue being the case though? I feel like the slide away from meritocracy is going to destroy the clout that American degrees hold with the rest of the world, especially Asia. That is my gut feeling anyways

>>20257570
The competition for professor positions is now high enough that they can ramp up the corporate hells of stack ranking and yearly evaluations. It’s getting systematized. Salaries are going down or bimodal, like with being a lawyer a few decades ago.

>>20257505
>It’s a world-class research institution.
lmao not for long anymore, what a bunch of retards, gg

>>20257570
You life and career is up for peer review sweetie. This space is for political activists and cowardly allies.

>>20257695
You can absolutely bet your ass that the first people to fail performance reviews are the ones keeping the flame of western civilization and erudition alive, and not the queerfagging french theorists.
It is going to be the Harold Blooms that are fired, not the Judith Butlers.

>>20257732
>Why do we need this paper chase again?
It’s partly a manner of gatekeeping certain positions, which is most obvious in the Ivy League since getting into those schools basically signals not just that you are a big brain, but also that you probably come from a good family with social connections, and of course that is huge in any business. But the other part is a genuine need for training, and to corporate hr it was pretty clear that if you were hiring somebody who was young and green but they at least had some paper, then that hopefully takes weight off of you for training them. Training is just a cost, and if the workforce can bare that cost through college then all the better for business. But then a stupid cycle emerged where politicians clung to the dream of raising everyone’s incomes through college, and then college increasingly has turned into a 2nd round of public school. Standards drop just to get people through, both because for the university that makes “happy customers”, and for wider social conditions it manages to meet some political goals for sitting parties. But then the paper gets devalued, and now businesses are simultaneously still demanding degrees but coming around to thinking that the new hires probably don’t know much anyways and will still have to be significantly onboarded. In cases like tech there grew the culture of just wanting to see that you knew “how to code”, and if you can show it somehow (like engaging in development of open software and stuff) then nobody cares if you have a degree. Other STEM industries it isn’t so easy to independently prove your knowledge, so they just kind of default to requiring the paper, because at least it MAYBE indicates you know more than the guy who doesn’t have it.

But I do wonder if we might pivot into more independent certification stuff. I’d imagine that would require university standards to have really fallen, and for some companies to take leaps of faith on new certification programs that end up paying off for them. Basically the worker just self-studies, passes some modestly priced exams, and they get their cert that is increasingly considered equivalent to a bachelors in whatever field.

>>20257765
We’ll see, it rests on the perceived reputation that these colleges have in foreign countries.

It rests on how high up these degrees can take someone in their own country.

>>20257772
/qa/ won

>>20257787
I never went there and I don't know why people keep saying this. I don't even know what they lost.

>>20257505
Oh no, professors will be held accountable just like everyone else in every other profession. How terrible.

>>20257782
A better system might be a test anyone can pay to take to prove their knowledge in a specific field. Passing the test gives you certification proving your knowledge to employers.

Taking the test doesn’t require a degree, but you can take formal classes that can help you pass the exam you want.

>>20257802
Uh, yeah.
>It has come to the attention of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion board that your research into Shakespearan drama has not lived up to the ethical code of this institution of giving a voice to marginalized BIPOC and their struggles
>based /lit/professor is replaced by a grievancenigger who does nothing but study the grievances of niggers
Tenure exists to protect academic freedom, something that isn't exactly having its glory days right now. You're just accelerating the decline of real erudition and scholarship.

>>20257824
>>20257581

>>20257824
Does it really matter whether or not there are any "based" humanities professors? Stem is all that matters in us schools, get erudite on your own time lul

>>20257902
Other anon here. While I agree with you generally, it’s the death of the classics departments and the study of canon that marks the real beginning of the death of the humanities. Back when they really were teaching people to read latin and ancient greek to read the classics in their original languages. It did matter a great deal, but that time was at least 50 years ago.

>>20257918
I figure the scholars will still be around but they'll be funded in different ways. I gotta admit tho, I don't care much what happens to the current classics departments people. Maybe if we have a data apocalypse I'll think some institution like the university needs to preserve it all, but this really is the golden age for self-directed study. I'd say they should unironically throw themselves into the market and try to find a way to monetize their knowledge, but I don't think they'd be happy with what would very likely be incredibly meager earnings doing that. They could try to do what scholarly people have done for millenia, try to find rich people that want to support them. The universities are kind of that, but the problem for the humanities people is that the majority of middling universities are turning into diploma mills for people seeking careers. So those universities see them as a drain and try to cut their funding as much as possible. I dunno if they could take some other approach outside of the universities to finding some rich people willing to just spend money on a bunch of scholars to raise their own esteem.

>>20257505
I both feel bad that this is happening and a strong sense of nihilism that the academics wasted their freedom and set up this scenario in the first place

>>20257824
>You're just accelerating the decline of real erudition and scholarship.
This is what has me so torn. A part of me strongly feels this is the only way to move forward and end this stagnation

>>20257668
>How much more research is there to be done on these texts really?

It's about cultivating character, not heckin' scientific discoveries.

>>20257749
It's somewhat restricted due to Civil Rights law declaring that it's racist to simply use IQ tests to hire for any old job, no companies give them and just use college name as a proxy.

>>20257642
We don't need no college education. They all push liberal view points

oh nooo muh ivory tower

>>20257505
This is just going to be used as a smoke screen to remove any resistance, isn't it? I guess things weren't moving along quite as fast as they had hoped.

>>20257918
>beginning of the death of the humanities
Classics are already badly POZZED

>>20257999
Sure, but you don't need a large research faculty if you're just having kids read to "build character". This doesn't happen either btw, many well-read intellectuals were shills for Communism or Fascism during the 20th Century. Reading does not build character.

>>20257824
Yeah, bullshit. Tenure has been used as a bludgeon by the establishment for decades to ensure conformity and complacency.

>>20257824
>You're just accelerating the decline of real erudition and scholarship.

True. Whatever would the ancient Greeks have done without tenure.

>>20258022
>you don't need a large research faculty if you're just having kids read to "build character".

yes

>Reading does not build character.

No, but studying the original Western canon and learning virtue does.

>>20258058
>No, but studying the original Western canon and learning virtue does.
Was it not studied in the 20th Century? I guess you could argue that people did not learn virtue. Why not? Studying Homer is far from an inoculation against Communism or Fascism or what have you.

>>20258022
>Classics are already badly POZZED
If you had the attention span of a human instead of a zoomer you’d note the point is they were the canary in the coalmine. That said it’s also been resistant to being taken over and is usually where you’ll find the few students and professors interested in western civilization now. The purplehairs don’t have the patience to infiltrate it in force when it’s already a crippled institution.

>>20258041
yeah, doing something to insulate people from politics, which usually takes the form of lifetime appointments to something, or in the case of tenure just a virtually lifetime appointment because it is very hard to remove you, doesn't actually insulate you from politics but rather ends up being a point of political leverage for the people who are supposedly "insulated". That is how tenure actually functions, it allows the tenured faculty to discipline all of the lower level academics striving to be in tenure, and they don't do it out of some neutral interest in pursuing knowledge. They do it for the same reason most dumb apes do it, to protect their own legacies, their own positions, to cultivate influence etc.

>>20258069
The time to notice the canary in the coal mine was DECADES ago. Or are you arguing the same?

>>20258083
> Or are you arguing the same?
Follow the chain backwards and apply some of that reading comprehension you’re struggling with in 10th grade little buddy.

>>20258056
The greeks did not have to tend the flame of 2000 years of tradition mate, come on now.

Autodidactbros... The fire is rising

>>20258064

Let's see how far we can fall without it.

>>20257505
rest in peace academic freedom. if you thought the intelligentsia pumping out propaganda was bad before imagine how it will be now that every thought is scrutinized and any dissenting opinions can be effectively quashed immediatly.

i would put an f for America, but I really dislike the american world order. still feel a bit bad for you guys though.

>>20257722
oh lol. you think thats how this is going to happen?

>>20258121
When I look at how enchanted huge numbers of academics were by Communism in particular I really find it hard to be too worried. These academics all "tended the flame of 2000 years of Western tradition" to quote >>20258118 to the best of their ability.

>>20258007
so true fellow magapede

>>20258120
chartfags will inherit the earth

>>20258153
Your view of academia is skewed. The vast majority of research and teaching in the humanities is the reproduction of tradition.

OH NO

>>20258179
yeah it's this but the matriarchy has other plans lol

>>20257505
I know leftists are behind this but most college professors are technologically obsolete. Cannot wait for academia to crumble.

>>20257581
All CRT academics should be permanently removed from academia, but this is not happening. The person I'm replying to is a tranny.

These guys are free loaders anyway

I almost went to Tech actually. Don't know much about it though except it's a sausagefest where everyone drinks all the time

>>20257768
Explain the bimodal thing and what happened with lawyers

>>20257642
the chinese imperial academy

>mfw the only pieces of shit who get tenure are networking shiteaters with ultra-trendy theses
>mfw this only fucks over talentless assholes who would have spent 40 years writing and rewriting about "something and the body" or "the carceral something"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES PLEASE LET IT SPREAD, FUCK THIS INDUSTRY THE FIRE RISES

>>20257824
>You're just accelerating the decline of real erudition and scholarship.
This was already done. You think tenure protects people with illegal opinions or has for the last 30 years? They have a thousand ways of bullying you out of your job or making it impossible. When you get people with really unpopular ideas, they literally just let protests escalate and assault professors in their own classrooms so that the professor is forced to hold off teaching, then they fire him for not living up to his contract.

The system in anything like its ideal form hasn't existed since the '80s, it's ONLY a rich people club now. The death knell was in the early 2000s when prestigious research universities began opening up their undergraduate admissions for more money, so that every university is now drowned in a soup of identical zoomers.

There is nothing left of the university ideal, just let it die and recreate it. Read Nisbet's Degradation of the Academic Dogma, read James' "The PhD Octopus," and just re-found academia on clean ground after this toxic shithouse falls over.

>>20258124
>i would put an f for America, but I really dislike the american world order
Again, this is why I am torn. It really is terrible for academia in general, but it only harms American power in the long run, which ultimately I hate.

>>20257570
They are just putting academia onto the open market.

>>20258158
Unironically true.

>>20257570
>>20257573
>younger researchers
you mean CHEAPER researchers, whether they be young Americans or not

>>20257505
A buncha smart guys can't figure this thing out? Meanwhile I'm 22 ADHD play slay the spire and listen to cumtown all day. Do I learn python or something? How come college never spoon fed me? Should I just go back to community college and keep at it or what? or just NEET about and read more...

>>20257581
>not in the way you think.
>The CRT panic
Ah yes it’s conservatives that are at fault in this 99% leftist driven space you see. No no please believe me despite the left owning the academic space for decades from student to professor and dean it’s in fact a conservative problem based on not liking critical race theory. We have to stop these outrageous right wingers from dictating what we teach their children! All children are the property of the state.

>>20257589
The ones restricting algebra classes are the ones pushing CRT.

I don't care because I'm gonna learn japanese and become the Joyce of light novels, and will write isekai stories with a harem of hot girls while I make references to shakespeare and classical western canon writers, as well as using a combination of loan words from classical chinese vocabulary and multiple indoeuropean languages, in a small dosis of Joycean kafkaeske language to not overwhelm young japanese teens.

All while writing heroic classic stories about a hero and his nakama party to grow and become stronger with the power of God's biblical catholic wisdom, while having fun power level BS battle with evil nephilim elohims from Satan armies.

And I don't give a fuck about your Ivy league american garbage.
I will become the richest japanese writer in the industry 10 years from now, and become the Tolkien of anime.

Don't need nothing more than the admiration of Japanese superior Yamato race.

I will make literature great again.
People will learn about the western and asian cannon in my stories while having hot anime girls as well.

>>20257581
I wish but it's unlikely, Universities are completely pozzed even in conservative areas. CRT needs to be completely and utterly verboten though

>>20260204
holy BASED

>>20257505
it make sense in such a hyper sensitive age they want to be able to fire anyone at anytime for anything

sounds like they are instituting some quality control in higher education

how is this a bad thing?

All non-STEM needs to be purged from academia

>>20257505
>NOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN’T JUST EXPECT ME TO BE COMPETENT
Fuck academics, tenure is cringe and Jewish

>>20260375
>/lit/ - Literature

>>20257824
>You're just accelerating the decline of real erudition and scholarship.
Marxism is real scholarship or "erudition", Mr. Goldburg.

>>20260399
Literature will continue to exist regardless of humanitiestards having tenure

>>20260375
Why do you think STEM isn't just the same bullshittery except with equations, in terms of research? It's basically the same as the humanities in form. 99% of it is academic busywork that deals with obscure questions. Perhaps the only difference is you can't just make shit up (as much, who knows how much oversight there is anymore). Maybe 1% of it is engaging and dynamic.
Further, shit like CS is basically bloated and obsolete in how it teaches people. It's a lot of useless skills which will be forgotten. And such is similar in most fields.

>>20257505
If at least say 10% of schools were doing this it might be a noteworthy sign that the times are truly changing. But one school? Seems like an experiment that will likely backfire because it is not arising out of natural circumstances.
I still cannot see any horizon beyond which academia truly changes as a result of natural circumstances.

>>20260419
True. In 10 years it will probably have unintended consequences for the university.
Such is happening all over the educational system. Public universities are gradually becoming top research schools and producing prominent people, while traditionally prestigious universities are sacrificing a quality student body and faculty for stupid policy choices (like enforced wokeness and diversity, over mere virtue signalling)

>>20260399
>not wanting to transform literature and literary criticism from its current MFA dominated credentialist hellscape that produces so little of value into a folk discipline.

>>20257581
wait. unis are getting rid of CRT people or those who promulgate the panic related to CRT?
why be so inprecise.

>>20260375
>science
99% useless circlejerking, just like humanities.
>technology
Has done nothing for the past 20 years but make human life worse. The world would have been a better place if every technology student had received a letter gift from Uncle Ted. Name literally one good thing from the T (tranny) part of STEM for the past 10 years. Literally one (1).
>engineering
Does nothing but construct ugly things, and there is not a single engineer in the entire world that isn't an insufferable autist. HURR, we made an ASS-MASSAGE CHAIR for CAR (which was perfected 50 years ago and has just become gayer since).
>medicine
Exists solely to siphon wealth from boomers who want to live forever (they wont: medicine quite literally does not work in any substantial sense of the term) so the money goes to medical companies rather than inheritances, literally peak finance modernity and has nothing to do with health. Medicine had a golden age from roughly 1930-1980. It has done nothing worthwhile since antibiotics. The money wasted on cancer research (which in 95% of cases only is suffered by boomers with comparatively few years left) could have funded mars colonisation.

In short, you're gay, and your failure to realize that STEM and humanities are equally gay proves it.

>>20257505
Unironically a blessed development. It is already like that for all young researchers caught in endless adjuncts and postdoc positions. The extreme selective pressure these young researchers have been subjected to have honed and sharpened them beyond anything tenured boomers can imagine. If the young and the boomers are competing on equal terms, which will be the case if tenure is taken from the boomers, young researchers are going blow them the fuck out with such extreme prejudice that there'll be mass boomer suicides.

Nothing was lost for anyone under the age of 35. Tenure was never a real possibility for these people, merely a privilege of their elders that left fewer positions open for them.

Academia is still a profoundly cucked place for masochists, but perhaps a bit less so with this development.

>>20260204
Based, Godspeed

>>20257573
>but the reality is that a lot of professors slack off after tenure and don't really do much work
you are the king of Dunning-Kruger hill

>>20260204
Big brained comment.

>>20260098
That was his point, retard

>>20260441
>The world would be a better place without air conditioning and food
Go live in the forest, ape

>>20257505
Oh no, their $200k a year jobs to study obscure topics aren't guaranteed anymore! I've always said that if people want to go to academia, they should have mandatory 3 months military service every year just so they give something back to society

>>20261080
He said past 20 years. Maybe you are younger than 20 years old, but air conditioning and new agricultural technologies were invented much more than 20 years ago

good

Stoner was right.

>>20261080
>this retard thinks food was invented in the past 20 years
Holy fucking shit kek

>>20261114
>blowing up brown people on the other side of the world
>giving back to society

>>20257642
Trade schools, possibly.

>>20261328
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
>Nearly 50% of the nitrogen found in human tissues originated from the Haber–Bosch process.[57] Thus, the Haber process serves as the "detonator of the population explosion", enabling the global population to increase from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7.7 billion by November 2018.[58]

>>20261342
Not the last 20 years, and congratulations, you just argued that fagnology is the root cause of overpopulation.

>waaa waaa i actually have to do my job right to keep it
Poor babies.

>>20260054
>CHEAPER researchers
Yes, and younger and more astute and less senile and more studious and more hardworking and etc. etc.

>>20260375
>>20260416
>>20260441
Working in a chem lab redpilled me on STEM. 99% of the shit that is published is straight up fantasy. If a grad student tried to pass of the methods and yields in most major papers they would be expelled for pulling shit out of their ass.

lol fuck academics

>>20260360
It's a bad thing because the professors who should have been fired a decade ago now have to do a song and dance to keep their jobs.
If you're asking how it is bad for anyone else, it kinda isn't.

>>20261320
In what sense? That tenure only keeps mediocre wastes employed so they can fuck young coeds lmao.

>>20261332
Yes, and?

>>20261380
Cripple hands typed this post.

>>20261390
Fuck Lomax and fuck stoner too. Stoner would be a dirt farmer and Lomax would be in a carnival where they rightly belonged without tenure.

Good.

Academia needs to completely collapse. Accelerate.

>>20261380
>tenure only keeps mediocre wastes employed so they can fuck young coeds lmao.
And that's all I ever wanted, but the boomers ruined it for me, cruel cruel world

>>20261332
Good point, I guess I was imagining a non-US country or an ideal scenario. But there was a time in which soldiers were the bedrock of the nation, and this is still the case in many countries

>>20257642
Experience and social skills as it basically is now.

>>20261458
And sweet sweet nepotism. Thank you Jesus for making my daddeh a heavy machine operator.

>>20257642
Work experience.

>>20258194
Just learn to code.

>>20260204
>he doesn't known the Japs are the most racist society on Earth, and they hate roundeyes

>>20261566
Work experience is already used as a barometer and there is the experience redundancy of needing experience to get experience. Though, some places merely use that as a filter and are not super strict.

>>20257505
Can someone explain what tenure is in a few words? Wikipedia has too many words and it's not clear enough but from what I could understand, it is some sort of permanent position?

>>20257570
I am sure that if you think very hard about it you'll find at least a couple of economical reasons to do this that are more important than your political LARP

>>20261320
stoner or david masters cuz i don't think stoner makes a broader statement about academia in the entire book.

>>20261641
Realistically, how long would that take for a 120 IQ midwit who has not done math since high school?

>>20261766
You make tenure. You can't get fired for any reason unless a whole bunch of bullshit goes down.

I can't say I really give a fuck about anyone that teaches the liberal arts these days. It does sound like they are actively looking to fire people though with that strange yearly review. If they did that in my job I'd be looking for another.

>>20261335
What about white collar work?

>>20262234
Like trade schools but all they teach you is shit like typing Excel and other database shit. That's how they used to teach women because white collar shit was for women unless you were in sales accounting or law.

I wonder if this will affect the quality of professors they get. If one university offers tenure at some point and the other likely never will, I bet a decent number will opt for job security. Finding work in academia already seems hard enough

>>20260204
Based

>>20261080
Did you miss the “past 20 years” part?

>>20261467
I was going to put nepotism but I didnt want to be too cynical kek.

>>20261766
A cushy job for life for utterly useless people.

>>20257510
It’s in collapse because professors act like retards

>>20257581
>The CRT panic is big in the South
For no reason at all they just started attacking teachers.

>>20260441
based

>>20260441
>medicine had a golden age from 1930-1980s
What could you possibly mean by this?

>>20257642
social credit score

>>20262370
based [agreeable]

>>20262517
Surgical technique was perfected, actually useful vaccines (like the tetanus shot, 100% efficiency) were developed, and antibiotics made it so that something as banal as pneumonia was no longer a probable death sentence.
It is probably the least controversial part of the post, check the Lancet or any sizeable medical journal for the term "Golden Age", doctors all agree on it. They all know that further biomedicinal research yields profoundly diminishing returns, and that today, the only meaningful and efficient approach to health is to stop living like a nasty pig, eat healthily and exercise.
But people can't be assed to do that, so doctors spend literally billions of dollars developing statin-pills to fix cholesterol levels in the clogged arteries of fatties, a very expensive approach, considering that better results could have been obtained by buying a gun, pointing it at a pre-morbid fatty, and telling him to do HIIT sprints until he wasn't a fatty anymore.

STEM is having a replication crisis and the humanities are nothing but dyed hairs banshees critiquing pop culture. Shekles above learning turned out to be a bad plan.

>>20262974
>Education became yet another capitalist money making scam
>Communism did this
Retard

>>20262982
What are you talking about? I did not say anything about commies. Besides, boomers ruined it, like they ruined everything else.

>>20262982
He never mentioned communism in his post. Capital has severed your testicles and infected your brain comrade. Take the lead pill it will be painless I swear.

>>20257505
It’s based.
Career academics will actually be held to a standard.

>>20262982
It's leftists of all types who demand universal educations. They identified a problem, that education isn't universal. Their solution was to give anyone who asked a government enforced loan which can not be bankrupted out of. These are blank checks for universities that no longer have any incentive to control their spending, and it also provides them an incentive to accept people into their universities that really have no business being there. The cost of schooling continues to rise and bad people provide increasingly bad research. If the government continues enforcing loans these thing can only get worse.

So yes, these things are the fault of communists as far as they advocate for universal education.

>>20261370
More desperate to publish, more eager to please their superiors, more willing to conform to prove themselves, more willing to work for a pittance.

>>20257752
>even a mid-level state college is better then most foreign colleges
Maybe in the third world. Coming in as someone from a developed country into American college was like going back to high school for 3 years, only the last semesters were really challenging.

>>20262361
>act

>>20257759
And it's staffed by people shit at coding. Those who can do do. Those who can't do teach.

>>20263015
Yes more administration and less education is based

>>20263084
I hope you aren't a Frenchfag. I've met a bunch of PSL trash and the only thing they are good for is shitty cocaine.

>>20263134
They have cheaper pensions, for now, and know how to get more clout than old useless boomer professors.

>>20263150
>frenchfag
I can’t say that I am. The fact that they still have multiple choice examinations on a university level was frankly shocking to me.

>>20258124
>rest in peace academic freedom.
you never had this it was an illusion you are only free if you are some internet autismo

Its over. America is over. 2070 paradigm shift happening ahead of schedule

>>20257505
Academia is bloated, for every dollar spent how much actually goes to research vs admin costs and vanity projects on manspreading and afro-narcissism?

>>20257570
So they can hire barley literate (in English) pajeets and chinks by the semester.

LOL I’m glad to see it happening after this gang of parasites gutted all the good Union jobs from America and floated about it.

>>20262370
Teachers are scum who waste tax dollars promoting CRT and queer theory

>>20257505
Top 5? Really?

>University: You will have to be competent. You'll be reviewed yearly, and if found lacking, you'll be fired.
>Professors: RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>20264003
This is literally the same justification Democrats used for NAFTA and outsourcing and so on and so forth. It is a justification that ruins the country's future prospects for the sake of short term profit, that is to say, it is pure capitalism

>>20262370
Anyone have a link to that video where some guy was interviewing Americans on the street and asking them about politics or something, and some broad said she was a history teacher and then said she focuses all her classes on current year woke culture war shit?

>>20257505
This is a good thing, I had professors with tenure who obviously hated being there and offered no support yet nothing could be done about it. Do a shitty job and now you can expect reasonable consequences. Also why is this on /lit/?

Good. Academia is dead, particularly American academia.

I'm glad Dr. Laquesha cant regurgitate whatever progressive drivel she read on Twitter last night in the classroom without consequence anymore.

No one should be allowed to be a life long academic. It's a joke.

Good. Let this be the start of a true fatwa against academia.

>I NEED TENURE SO I CAN WRITE ABOUT EMBODIED DISUBJECTIVIT-ACK!

>>20257642
Despite everyone predicting the opposite, AI is automating the humanities and STEM faster than anything else. See DALL-E, GPT3 and AI radiology.

>>20264370
good then, let them reap what they sow for once.

>>20264437
how do any of those pertain to the humanities?

Why do modern Humanities departments exist in the first place? In the past, we had individual schools for Skeptics or Stoics that trained you in one mode of thought, just as we train pupils in arithmetic or biology, but modern Humanities departments seem directionless and unfocused, dipping their toes into everything yet excelling in nothing.

Am I wrong for thinking we should mold schools around specific modes of thought instead?

>>20264535
you're implying people can still adopt modes of thought unironically. The humanities deconstructed themselves into absolute irrelevance in the wake of WWII in an act of self-flagellating ressentiment. That's why modern humanities departments just flit from one cultural fashion to the next in attempt to seem relevant. There's nothing below the surface.
I sometimes wish the right wing fantasy of humanities departments peopled by committed leftists were true. It would be so much less depressing than the reality, namely that humanities professors are just effete, confused, largely illiterate, aspiring bourgeois dilettantes who jump on whatever bandwagon will land them a job that pays marginally more than minimum wage

>>20260427
dumbass

>>20260204
Pretty sure you have to be Japanese to get anywhere in the okatudom market.

itt: actual cesspool of morons and idiots

>>20257510
Have you seen the racial demographic projections? America is done.

>>20257694
(((yanks)))

>>20264578
That's the sad thing. What a massive step backwards that was.

>>20257505 | >>20257510 | >>20257525
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>

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>

>>20264595

Elaborate.

People itt you need to stop focusing on CRT as a discrete problem. You will get epic wins against individual freakish ideologues while doing nothing to challenge the broader demonology of Western man that the social sciences have become. Burn Comte's works. Question the Yankee Imperialism of Horace Mann. Appeal to pluralism. Advance a "comprehensive historical education" involving ancient and non-Western history to break the centrality of World War II and Euroamerican Imperialism in the white child's mind. These, and not CRT, are the actual problem. CRT is the most ugly and thus apparent edge of a process that has been going on for hundreds of years. Even worse, in your crusade against CRT, you may find yourself positively appealing to this tradition without realizing that it is the same tradition that culminated in CRT.

I have this dreadful feeling this is an effect of the hyper focus on STEM professions. Sure, it's nice to have an Alexa operated prostate massager that can order pizza but, with the lack of classical humanities teachings, no one seems to ask the "why" question anymore. College went from this idea of "create an intelligent, well-rounded person" to training mindless dolts whose only purpose is to make money. Ironically, all of these extreme liberal faggots are going to be eaten up by the system they were trying to destroy. Now we will have yet another awful system of subjective and wasteful evaluations by bitter HR lesbians that create swathes of even more wasteful admin jobs. By 2050 every person will have a Apple iNanny installed in their brain to monitor any wrongthink.

>>20261373
>it's a chinese orgsyn paper with 99% yields
>again

>>20265296
STEM will be oversaturated

>>20266450
I would argue it already is. The only lucrative jobs right now are IT related. I'm lazy and did terrible in school and found out I made more than engineers who have an objectively more difficult curriculum, longer work hours and actually create valuable infrastructure. It's a fucked up world.

>all those old fucks who were allowed to be the worst professors on campus because they were "tenured", and who openly mocked students that stood out against them, will finally get their karmic fucking justice
Academia can burn for all I care; it's a meme anyways.

>you are now imagining the day when the universities admit they are diploma mills and STEM training factories that rarely even produce good technicians, and the whole potemkin village of "humanistic education" finally collapses
>you are now imagining the day when all the normies don't know what to do, because "One goes to college" is as much a part of the firmament of objective reality for them as "One listens to the News Man, he's on the Tee Vee" is
>you are now imagining the day when the money dries up and a thousand ponzi schemes within pyramid schemes, like the standardized testing racket, implode
>you are now imagining millions of unemployed office bitches wandering the streets in shellshock, with CVs full of fake jobs like "Head Administrative Liaison of the Wellness Center at Penis University," in an industry that doesn't exist anymore
>you are now imagining millions of nouveau riche chinamen and latin americans streaming back to their homelands, their visas expired, their heads full of the managerial jargon of a dead system
>you are now imagining millions of upper middle class new englanders and californians returning to their parents' houses in their collapsing states, with nothing to do now that getting three masters degrees in fake bullshit to get them out of their parents' hair for a decade isn't an option anymore
>you are now imagining the empty hallways of "LMAO THE HOGWARTS BUILDING XDDD IT'S JUST LIKE IN HARRY POTTER XDDDDD"
>you are now imagining the empty, ugly brutalist library with its 90% "study area" space for loud teenagers
>you are now imagining Professor Hepcat trying to rebrand himself as a "consultant," and describing his 21 years of rewriting the same anthropology book (on the othering of LGBTQIA+ bodies in the contemporary berlin underground) as providing him with "Interpersonal skills" and experience in "Digital media" and "Knowledge work"
>you are now imagining modern states reconsidering what it means to have an organic intellectual elite in a time of austerity
>you are now imagining it dawning on ordinary people that "Effete coastal elite weirdos filling a bloated inscrutable Snakes-and-Ladders guild system via nepotism and 'networking' cronyism" is not the natural or inevitable way for an intellectual caste to function
>you are now imagining real people redrawing plans for new universities on the humboldtian model
>you are now imagining Professor Hepcat washing dishes
>you are now imagining the parents of millions of californian instagram artists going insane as they can't send their 30 year old children to forever-daycare anymore

>>20267138

The corporate world is even worse than academia

>>20257580
>Do you think people will accept my bachelors credentials if I present videos well online?
Unfortunately, people online accept anything. The real issue there is marketing, not credentials. So yes.

>>20260419
Tenure is one of the things that would be helping against the problem presented in that quote

>>20257505
Academic tenure has been dead since the 70s. This is just purging mostly irrelevant academics.

>>20261748
not if he's American

>>20267189
truly

>>20257505
We need democratic tax dollar funded think tanks to develop world changing technology and remove the need of independent corporations using pre-made obsolescence and technological stagnation for mass profit.
Lobbyists and politicians who falter to big oil are cowards.

>>20267771
Also screw the usa's military industrial complex, just a damn money pit.

>>20260419
Based, I was going to post this

>>20267138
QRD on Humboldtian model? Is it just like apprentice-journeyman-master, collapsing the student and researcher into one person or something? Also not sure if Universities will ever be free from social and economic concerns because they're basically the most sacral institutions left in our world i.e. they're the home of "experts" and "studies" to which there can be no appeal

Colleges are an inherently feminizing force now.

my gf is on her wa to become a professor but she does some really niche shit for anthropology.
she’s a literal hack tho.

>>20268183
being a white man must suck
>you must hate yourself
>you must applaud when your dependents do better than you despite contributing less to the upkeep of society
>your one function is to work all the real jobs thanklessly at the bottom of society, while assorted fruits and women traipse around enjoying fake jobs where they do no work but get all the prestige
>your one role, being the workhorse, is being phased out by immigrants who work for less and don't respect you either
>they are being imported by the gays and women and other fruits
>you have to thank the immigrants for replacing you

>>20260204
Dont forget us when you make it fren

>>20264578
>self-flagellating ressentiment
Is it really self-flagellating ressentiment? Considering art critics, I understand where you're coming from, since many of them are just ineffective artists. I also understand the typical politically motivated destruction and rewriting of history that happens in the humanities sometimes under this idea. But I think most of it is just a result of moronic uncritically accepted anti-foundationalist, nihilist thinking.

Can anyone give me an objective definition of what "CRT" actually is? It just seems like an undefinable nonsense term designed to inflame passions and promote division. If both sides of this argument are going to be willfully obtuse with their definitions, how do they hope to sway moderates?

>>20268297
American Politics is the process of co-opting and redefining the language of your opponent in order to scare your constituency into voting the way you want and distract from the corporate lobbies that actually dictate policy

>>20257505
For those saying that academics will now be held to standard, remember it's by who that's important. I understand the vitriol against cowardly academics whose integrity crumbled in the face of ideological opposition, but this just means that universities will be run by institutionalized iscariots, aka HR.

>>20268630
It just means the admin has more leeway to fire useless fucks that are already at retirement age with good pensions and also firing youngfags before they ever qualify for pensions. Gotta maximize those profits you get from new rich chinks.

>>20268675
Human Resource departments and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

>>20268297
Obtuse is the point. It's whatever bullshit they need to say to make sure every child in the room has an excuse to hate themselves or someone that looks different from them. That's the beauty of CRT.

>>20261332
> blowing up brown people on the other side of the world
Sounds based but just add Blacks to it and it is even better

Soon American universities will be strictly be filled with rich chinks who continue to steal research and information and send it back to China. Honestly, banning Asian foreigners will be the best course of action.

>>20268727
Like everything else they produce, their spies suck ass and are unreliable because 99.9% of Chinese who leave China for any reason are doing it for the free ticket out of China.

>>20268727
Nah

>>20268747
Post eyes

>>20259535
The starting salary of a lawyer is either 60k or 250k. There is no in between. 250k lawyers come from the top 14 law schools.

>>20268764
And they’re all trust fund kids whose parents are lawyers/judges/govt officials and went to their law school. Cant wait for the day Big Law implodes and those losers need to learn to code

>>20268764
Must be awesome to work as a paralegal for years then graduate and find out that you are going to be a discovery slave until you're in your 30s.

>>20268783
Based, grew up around lawyers and they are some of the most helpless faggots in the world. By the way none of them are good at
"law," except a few autistic male ones who dominate it like they dominate any other business field. Even most of the high level autists are really just good at networking and at building "teams" of people who actually do know how the law works.

Lawyers are fucking helpless without an army of clerks, interns, and assistants doing the work for them. They don't know the law, there is no such thing as the law anymore, there are only bureaucratic mazes and careerist rats who know how to manipulate their little 3.4% sector of the mazeway for a fee.

>>20268783
Fortunately I already know how to code I guess

>>20268801
It is fucking hilarious how little litigation experience these losers have. Most of them are incapable of public speaking or making a coherent point, so they go into M&A or securities. Even funnier when the little elitists losers graduate with a 100K in debt from some ivy league thinking they’re hot shit only to be belittled by the paralegals and partners at their firm. Then they burnout after three years because they never actually had responsibility before since everything was handed to them. Society will benefit if it can restructure itself to never have parasites like lawyers ever again.

I just realized that the reason inane identity politics infests every board regardless of topic now. It's that you're all extreme cowards with a deep seated need to please others and thus avoid any sort of perceived conflict and thus can't actually stand by or debate your beliefs with anyone in real life for fear that you'll somehow be diminished or enmeshed. This is the only place you can protect your ego from differing viewpoints as anonymity precludes the need to feel guilt or shame when your ideas clash with others. "You" are protected from the realization that you're just as useless as you think you are, able to broadcast your truth, as you see it, without compunction. The priblem there is now you've wrapped yourself with an asinine label that means next to nothing and use it as a core identifier of your personality. It becomes even more imperative to aggressively defend your ideology as you entrench your ego within it.
The problem is, if you actually cared about any of this, you'd be doing something, anything, about it, rather than pissing in the wind here. What is the point in complaining about something you won't even attempt to change? If you really cared about issues like this, you'd run for local office, write your school board, call your representatives. All you really want is a reason to feel angry, a reason to feel like you matter, a reason to feel anything other than the soul crushing emptiness that comes with suppressing yourself to appease others in hopes of getting the validation you secretly crave.
>inb4 "I'm a well adjusted entrepreneur"
No, you're less self aware than the aboriginal Otaku who used to post here and lying in the hopes of defending your ego to others just as impotent and pathetic as you are. You wouldn't be here if you were well adjusted.

>>20268183
Gays do better in university because people get in relationships in uni and they don't have to deal with women to do so.

>>20268872
What the fuck are you talking about

based

>>20267075
Only thing I hate is that all the unintelligible FOB professors in STEM are just going to be replaced with younger dumber ESLs. It's fucking 2022, they should make those third worlders run their lectures through TTS and spare everyone the unnecessary effort of trying to understand each other.

>>20270259
exactly my thoughts. should be a federal law that bar highly specialized necessary STEM courses (biomedicine, niche engineering fields) and guest lecturers, all professors in the US should be completely fluent in english and have minimal foreign accent. it's doubly shameful now that online teaching is an acceptable format students should have to pay $50,000 for ching chow chon to garble in chinglish.

>>20268183
always has been
the structured world of order and hierarchies has always been feminine and gay. the whole "civilizing" process is a return to the safety of the womb

>>20257723
Those view counts only count the number of readers who read through *that website*, which will be virtually no-one since most people use other means of getting the paper. But yeah, the majority of papers will have at most triple-digit readership numbers even if you could magically see the true numbers

To the niggas itt saying tenure is bad, let me tell you a story
>going to a middle of nowhere bumfuck Midwestern university
>very conservative town but the uni faculty is mostly liberal or progressive
>student body is about half and half but the progressive retards scream the loudest and get their way
>one of the profs is tenure, ex military ex firefighter
>really cool guy, fun classes, swears a lot and not afraid to comment on politics
>milquetoast conservative opinions not a trumper or crazy just mild con social and economic views
>every semester and I mean EVERY semester 1 or 2 students (usually freshmen) complain to the dean about him
>usually about stupid shit like how he said BLM is violent and criminal in nature or about race relations or saying nigger
>they can't fire him
>He gets comfy salary and makes the they/them egirl seethe in the back the whole class

tldr; tenure protects ALL types of profs