/lit/ - Literature

Posting superior story before 'Reverend Insanity' fag arrives.

On another note, how good is 'Wings of Fire' series? I saw it recommended in one of the last /sffg threads. I want to read something with Dragons, but I also heard this series is for children. Is it worth reading? If not, recommend superior story with Dragons being characters or having prominent presence in the plot.

Haven't visited /sffg/ for a while and I'm sad to see that Bakkerchads have gone into hibernation. I'll remind them.

Reminder to read The Second Apocalypse by R. Scott Bakker. Start with the Darkness that Comes Before.

>try to read fantasy post-Tolkien

I can't do this. It's all just gay shit.

what books have skeleton characters in them

Good morning anons. Remember you can always judges a book by it's female author or POV characters. They are shit everytime. Also Sanderson is a horrible writer and his world building is shit. Also the term "world building" is a shit, ignorant term that people use when they don't know what to say about a book.

>>20246760
It was all downhill after Dunsany, anyway.

>>20246769
>female protagonist
>female writer
>female POV
Hard pass

>>20246761
The Wandering Inn. It starts with one, then there's the other side one, and in Volume 6 you get one of the best character you can get, and it's a skeleton bone daddy the likeness of you've never seen before.

>>20246787

>>20246832
Things that are true usually stand the test of time.

>>20246832
Mods delete dumb posts now? Not that it wasn't a retarded one, but I thought people are allowed to be retarded here, desu

>>20246840
Things that are true usually get deleted by tranny janny.

Reminder that Sanderson sucks.

>>20246761
>what books have skeleton characters in them
You should consider Sylver Seeker webnovel, it's not stricte a skeleton MC as it's a necromancer, but he's aiming towards returning to be a proper Lich.

>>20246859
Nope, there is a roastie janny or just some liberal who delete based posts

>>20246715
Federations - John Joseph Adams, editor (2009)

Mazer in Prison - Orson Scott Card (2005)
The 50 relativistic years journey of Mazer Rackham preceding Ender's Game that led to the foundation of Battle School. The premise is shaky and hero worship and wish fulfillment is plentiful, but it's fun.
Ok

Carthago Delenda Est - Genevieve Valentine (2009)
A delegation awaits the arrival of an alien species based on a message that almost no one is allowed to hear. There mustn't be any war before their arrival. The delegation has been waiting 400 years. However long it takes, they'll be waiting, to ensure peace.
Meh

Life-Suspension - L. E. Modesitt, Jr. (2009)
A space opera romance filled with Japanese mythology.
Ok

Terra-Exulta - S. L. Gilbow (2009)
A linguist picks a file at random to translate from Galactic Standard to Ancient Planetary English for submission to the Galactic Society of Ancient Languages to show that it can be done. The file is a transmission from a terralogist about their life's work of terraforming and all the neologisms they coined to describe the process. The story becomes something different than what it first seems to be.
Enjoyable

Aftermaths - Lois McMaster Bujold (1986)
A Pilot Officer observes a medtech, in this case basically a mortician, involved with Personnel Retrieval and Identification of those who have died in space. This would've been more meaningful if I had read any of the Vorkosigan Saga. Maybe I'll try again, someday.
Ok

Someone is Stealing the Great Throne Rooms of the Galaxy - Harry Turtledove (2006)
A story overflowing with intentionally groanworthy puns, 4th wall breaks from an omniscient narrator talking to you, and bants about the French and at least one author. Space Cadet Rufus Q. Shupilluliumash, an overgrown hamster, must solve the titular crime.
Ok

Prisons - Kevin J. Anderson and Doug Beason (1992)
A prison planet overseen by a single AI has been overthrown. The Federation is desperate to reclaim it, as the withdrawal symptoms of the illicit and addictive drug that comes from there are often deadly.
Ok

Different Day - K. Tempest Bradford (2009)
Various aliens use Earth as a competition to see who can trick the humans into giving them the most stuff. Probably also a political allegory.
Meh

Twilight of the Gods - John C. Wright (2009)
The third part of a sequence that retells The Ring of Nibelung in space. Those upon the generation worldship, one of several, have forgotten everything. The implied setting for this story is immense, but takes place in a single location. So, in that regard it will be much more enjoyed by those who can fully appreciate the implications. For me, it's mostly a tease.
Ok

Warship - George R. R. Martin and George Guthridge (1979)
The first SF story that Martin tried to sell, which failed. It was rewritten by Guthridge then sold. Alecto is an invulnerable spaceship, its only weakness being its human crew. Most of the narrative is in devotion to a dead lover.
Meh

>>20246947
Swanwatch - Yoon Ha Lee (2009)
A small group of exiles aren't allowed to leave the space station unless they perform a masterpiece. The highest form of art involves suicide.
Meh

Spirey and the Queen - Alastair Reynolds (1996)
Betrayals, desperation, and sentient AI with vast plans.
Ok

Pardon Our Conquest - Alan Dean Foster (2009)
A comedy of three species involved in conquest, surrender, confusion, and friendship. This is set in his Commonwealth series, none of which I've read, but I was amused regardless.
Highly Enjoyable

Symbiont - Robert Silverberg (1985)
Biological warfare between humans and an alien species makes living through an attack worse than dying, so his friend asks, "Why didn't you kill me?"
Meh

The Ship Who Returned - Anne McCaffrey (1999)
A mind ship laments the loss of her pilot she had for over three quarters of a century. She then returns to a people she saved a century ago and may have to again.
Enjoyable

My She - Mary Rosenblum (2009)
Clones are bred in convents on each planet to serve as quantum communication devices. The protagonist is a sapient seeing-eye dog, which allows the clone to see through their eyes. His newest clone to be paired with is different from all the others.
Enjoyable

The Shoulders of Giants - Robert J. Sawyer (2000)
Space pioneers have been in cryosleep for 1,200 years, but now they've reached their destination, only to find it was colonized long ago by far faster ships. What's to be done?
Enjoyable

The Culture Archivist - Jeremiah Tolbert (2009)
A rogue ethnographer's day is ruined when the United Planets's spaceship Jolly Happy Fun Time comes to assimilate the previously uncontacted sentients, except by him, into their consumerist hegemony.
Ok

The Other Side of Jordan - Allen Steele (2009)
A blue collar working class man escapes Earth to travel the galaxy by doing manual labor jobs on space freighters and at space ports. There are several alien species described. It has a retrofuture aesthetic that reminded me of leaving Europe for the New World. There's also a romance with the daughter of a plantation owner.
Enjoyable

Like They Always Been Free - Georgina Li (2009)
The specifics of this sexual relationship elude me, but it's some kind of literary alien sex erotic romance.
Blah

Eskhara - Trent Hergenrader (2009)
US occupation of Baghdad, but in space.
Ok

The One with the Interstellar Group Consciousnesses - James Alan Gardner (2009)
A romantic comedy where entire civilizations are cast as individuals.
Enjoyable

Golubash, or Wine-Blood-War-Elegy - Catherynne M. Valente (2009)
A tale of history and war told through wine vintages.
Ok

The current circumstances are that lightning struck right outside my house during a mild storm and destroyed some electronics, including my modem. Related to that I don't currently have an residential ISP. I don't know when that will change. Phoneposting usually isn't an option as my IP range is almost always blocked. These posts are an exception. So, I'll be posting writeups infrequently as a result. Yes, I have access to wifi elsewhere, but I generally I can't be bothered.

>>20246955
>Space pioneers have been in cryosleep for 1,200 years, but now they've reached their destination, only to find it was colonized long ago by far faster ships. What's to be done?
Sounds like a Dick short story I've read.

You should check out Axiomatic by Greg Egan.

>>20246983
Rather, the short story collection "Axiomatic", of which the singular short story "Axiomatic" is included.
polite sage

>>20246980
I haven't had internet at my home for a month now and I've been tracking my books read on fuckin' post-it notes since I can't get to my goodreads. I phonepost to lurk here sometimes and that's it. My plan has little data and phoneposting is godawful.

>>20246983
>>20246985
I'll probably be reading that collection sometime before the end of the month.

>Sounds like a Dick short story I've read.
I'd guess "I Hope I Shall Arrive Soon", though it's rather different from that.

>>20246993
I have all my passwords and whatever else also on the phone. The Goodreads app has a lot of limitations, but it works well enough for what I need to do. I can also tether my phone to the pc, which fortunately survived. That's what doing right now, so it's more phoneposting by proxy. The tether speed is only ~64KB/s, so it's limited in use.

>>20247026
His collection Luminous was good as well. I don't remember every Dick story but I'm rereading the entire collection, slowly, and would recommend it to anyone. Plenty of good ideas.

I can briefly tether which is what I'm doing now too but my plan only offers 10gb/mo and I can only hotspot for up to 5gb so I've mainly used it to read up on threads early in the morning or other daily update kinda stuff.

Anyhow, to get back on-topic, I'm reading Inverted World now after seeing it mentioned in a previous thread and hope the story turns out to meet my expectations. I'm on chapter 7 now and I've read too many duds recently.

>>20246980
>lightning struck right outside my house during a mild storm and destroyed some electronics

unplug your shit during storms

>>20246980
>he does not unplug everything when it's raining
NGMI

>>20247050
>>20247068
This confuses and frightens /g/

Read this a few days ago, a little under 100 pages long. It had a cool premise (two detectives working through a snapshot molecular recreation of a city so that the "real detectives" on the outside could gain more evidence and leverage in their cases) but the writing was pretty boring and basic. So very pedestrian. It had a twist that you could see coming from a mile away yet all Goodreads reviewers are talking about how ingenious the idea is. Still, I can't ever hate Sanderson, he just seems like a nerd who tried to write and ended up working extremely hard at it, more than we could say of anyone on this board. I just wish he was lauded a little less for his fanfiction-tier storylines.

>>20247112
Shit, forgot pic

Good morning anons! The shadow of the tyranny mod is upon us. He cannot create, for his only power is total destruction of posts which are of goodwill and truth. Remember friends, you can always judge a bad book by its awful female author. Furthermore, female POVs are always shit and only exist to sell books to women. They have small brains and low reading comprehension. Also Sanderson is a subpar writer that peddles religious books to liberals ironically.
P.S. fuck trannys, jannys, and niggers.

>Whiskeyjack, Ganoes Paran, T'lan Imass, Sorry

the hell are these names

>>20247112
>>/lit/thread/S14689093#p14701812

>>20247156
>tfw you are not native english and do not know where does the english fuckery end and fatnasy starts
Reading Malazan is double chelnging for foreign anons

40 chapters into worth the candle, I thought you said this WASN'T litrpg?
The funny thing is, even though it's not a timeloop story, it's actually extremely similar to TPL. SO I can revise my previous theory, it's not the timeloop structure that causes this, it's the type of author. Basically midwit "rationals" who think systemizing and "optimizing" mathematical functions is the peak of human intellect, all the while desperately trying to ignore their crippling mental afflictions and insecurities no amount of statistics can cure.

Basically, litrpg, rationalfic, and timeloops all feed into the same set of neurotic obsessions for maximizing some sort of number through repeated computation in order to distract the mind and not have to confront reality. They're coping mechanisms, which also explains the large wordcount, the authors are literally addicted to, or dependent on, continuing to write. This also explains the prevalence, people like this are naturally inclined to write lots of long fast-updating stories, other people similar to them are drawn to obsessively reading these stories for the same reason, this is all tied to a numerical ranking system they become obsessed with, and in the end the top spots on all the webnovel sites wind up clogged with these idiots trying to make number go up and burying any actually decent stories on the platform.

Please recommend something similar to locke lamora, i.e. weak guy who is smart af and does not become giga god later on

>>20247156
Whiskeyjack is a really goofy name.

>>20247174
And this mental problem seems to be an epidemic, given that litrpg, isekai, an cultivation are the three most popular amateur webnovel genres across the entire world. It seems like in every population the vast majority of people writing and consuming webnovels is a neurotic deviant obsessed with numbers. Combine that with MMOs, ranked fps, etc... and the problem becomes even more widespread, not to mention the obvious examples in academia and business.
These people simply have nothing else going on in their lives, and so have resorted to self hypnosis to, at least temporarily, escape their problems. Thus litrpg is double, or even triple escapism for these people. It's a distraction, it's a fantasy that this compulsion can be a good thing, and it's a fantasy that all their problems will be solved if they just calculate harder and keep bottling up and ignoring their issues.

I'm almost inclined to write a deconstruction, and I wonder how many others have been written and then buried by the hordes of litrpg addicts.
The premise is simple enough, a litrpg/cultivation/isekai setting where all the matteris is optimizing yournumber. But then have everyone at every level exactly the same.
At level 1 level 2 bandits bully you and steal your shit, at level 100 level 101 bandits bully you and steal your shit.
You go from "collect 500 rat tails" to "collect 500 heavenly rodent tails". The local village girl won't date you because you're too weak, the local heavenly beuty won't date you because you're too weak, both in the end wind up marrying people vastly below them in strength who are just more attractive and likeable than you are.
The moral of the story is the mc eventually catching on that the numbers don't mean jack shit, they don't actually change who you are or your place in society, the REAL cultivation is deep introspection and personal development.

>>20247174
>>20247220
I appreciate your effortposts. I think they're well-written and I agree with them. None of this is anything new, it's just expressed in a different ways. Over 20 years ago I came across a D&D parody webfiction where the characters had literally billions of levels in tons of classes. It was rather amusing at the time. I don't quite remember what it was called, but it's short name was ICBM or something like that. I think what you're proposing would be more a reconstruction instead.

>>20247189
I haven't been able to fill the Locke lamora void yet. Mostly the style, pros, and setting I love. As well as low magic. That said, if Lynch ever finishes It's hard to say if Locke gets powerful or not. That said, I love all magic users are complete assholes.

What are the best fantasy books that weren't written originally in English?

>>20247294
Does webnovels count?

>>20247117
>snaps4lol

>>20247112
Sanderson is a very skilled writer, in that he knows and has practiced the skills to be a writer. This doesn't necessarily mean he's a great writer, it just means he is always at least competent. Sometimes he pushes out something pretty good or even great, but all of his work is at least 'decent', so combined with his output it's relatively easy to see why he's so popular.

>>20247318
I was thinking about well known titles. I ask because the fantasy genre seems to be (at least superficially) mostly written in English.

Tolkien appeals to the heroic in us, GRRM to the base, vile and instinctual.

>look for Black Company the fantasy series on good old libgen
>mfw

>>20247335
snaps4oΓ

>>20246761
I think Skulduggery Pleasant has a skeleton in there

>>20247386
Every so often you stumble onto erotica when searching for something else entirely and it is... Eye-opening, is a word for it.

>>20247386
>69kb

>>20247386
>look up alex belleville
>he's published dozens and dozens of books about interracial cuckolding
Obvious mental illness aside, how many times can you tell the exact same story? Surely his readerbase wants something new by now?

>>20247294
Neverending Story?

>>20247246
Well I mean if it's obvious to me after reading like half a dozen of them I would hope someone else noticed.
>reconstruction
This part I don't get, in my view the whole genre is essentially "more bigger, more better" i.e. "if I level up enough I won't be depressed and lonely anymore". Hence a deconstruction would be "only depressed lonely people care about levels" and "the more time you spend leveling, the deeper you fall into depression and isolation"
So a creepy weirdo no one likes finds an expoit to level by grinding alone in a cave, and uses it to become super powerful. Then he soars to the heavens to join the uber-elite, and is EVEN MORE of a creepy weirdo because he spent a decade alone in a hole and everyone hates him. Naturally he decides to solve this my MORE GRINDING, and reaches a stage beyond the reach of any ordinary mortal. Now he's part of an exclusive society of nothing but weird creepy maniacs who all got powerful through obsessive exploit farming and have since gone insane. They go around randomly destroying things and killing normal people who weren't insane enough to spend their entire lives grinding exploits. Initially he joins them out of a combination of personal negative emotions, insanity, and their vague whishy-washy psuedo-philosophical justifications for how they're going to make the world better. But eventually he catches onto what's really happening, probably just because his method was faster so he went less insane. He deicdes the only possible way he could help the world is getting rid of these psychos and uses his obsessive calculator brain to figure out a flaw in the system itself and destroys the entire thing, de-leveling everyone and making them all mortal again. Then he becomes a hermit and spends the rest of his life farming, because in the end he's still a creepy weirdo who doesn't get along with people, but has come to accept it and not care about gaining social acceptance anymore.

>>20247405
It's a flood-the-market approach. Take a paint-by-numbers story that you can crap out in a few weeks, and keep releasing more of the same to get people into that stuff grabbing your stuff over the others.

>>20247294
>>20247410
And maybe the 13 1/2 Lives of Captain Bluebear

"Almost" done with my Sanderson deep dive.
Finished Emperor's Soul, Elantris, Mistborn era 1, Warbreaker, the Way of Kings and Words of Radiance.
Honestly they're all pretty good. I'm not sure yet if I want to get into Mistborn era 2 and 3 since they're more modern.

>>20247442
Era 2 is generally better than Era 1, in that the characters are on-the-whole good/decent instead of just a handful of good ones and absolutely paper-thin everybody else.

Any good sci fi recs that incorporate mind control as a central theme? Specifically for more recent stuff (last 5 years) and/or books that really dive in to the internal mental experience of what mind control feels like and the moral ramifications. Not looking for stuff like code geass or star wars (sorry, just the first examples I can think of) where it's just a wave of the hand and people do your bidding with no further introspection.

>>20247442
I'm about to finish Mistborn era 1; not liking it; but I've been told era 2 is better so I will try the first book of era 2 before deciding if I drop Sanderson for good, I'm finding his character juvenile and one-dimensional.

>>20247174
>I thought you said this WASN'T litrpg?
It's definitely LitRPG, but I've heard people call it a deconstruction.
I haven't read any other LitRPGs or Xianxia or whatever so I can't say how right they are. I can say that explicit numbers become less prominent as the story continues. They still exist in the plot, but it doesn't see a need to bother you with them.
The protagonist keeps getting more powerful all the way but for me that was not a reason to keep reading. It's more about becoming a better person than about gaining levels, believe it or not.
>all the while desperately trying to ignore their crippling mental afflictions and insecurities no amount of statistics can cure.
Worth the Candle is very literally and explicitly written as a way for the author to psychoanalyze his own trauma, insecurities, antisocial personality traits, and so on. The protagonist's past is autobiographical and keeps following him whether he wants it to or not. If you keep going you'll get to read many semi-fictional recollections of how he made the lives of people around him worse and how much he regrets that and how he betters himself bit by bit. I cannot overstate this enough.

I think it gets less annoying as it progresses, and I've heard the same opinion from other people. So if you don't completely hate it I recommend giving it the benefit of the doubt for now.

>>20246761
In Bakker's (pbuh) books the main characters have a skeleton inside them

>>20247156
Or Fiddler lol. On the other hand Anomander Rake has to be one of the best names ive seen in fantasy.

>>20247762
Shoo, Erikson.

>>20247354
You've never read either.

I literally cannot understand Malazan. Is this the ESL curse?

>>20247883
You projection is showing, friend.

I've been rereading some Lovecraft stories in my native language and I noticed they are full of archaisms and complex convoluted sentences.

>>20247908
No, Malazan is effeminate nonsense. You are a man and you are smart. Be proud of these things.

>>20247822
Erikson is actually a redditor no joke.

>>20247908
No, Malazan is super convoluted with too many characters and shit going on. I hear that many characters don't even have their arcs completed in the main story for the express purpose of shilling some spinoff series

>>20247915
>p-projection
Thank you for proving my point. Now get to reading.

>>20247908
It's not that tough to understand, you're probably just not used to reading good authors . Most fantasy authors are crap compared to other genres so their readers get used to a lot of handholding.

Should I read Stormlight Archive? My only experience with brando are his wheel of time books which my only real problems with can be chalked up to him not being the original author.

>>20248120
They're pretty long, and most opinions on the first book are pretty positive, but people are more divided on the later ones. I generally enjoyed them, though I don't think they're exactly amazing. The biggest issues I have with Stormlight is simply pacing, because the length plus the multiple perspectives means you'll have multiple lines all waiting for resolutions, and Sanderson almost never resolves things until the ends of his books.

>>20248120
It is the current biggest western xianxia

>>20248139
It is definitely not that. Arguably the biggest western xianxia is Cradle, though I'm not even sure if that counts.

I went to the thrift store for scifi and left with a bunch of Southern/Midwest American classics (Faulkner, Cather), they never have any good scifi!! I was looking for Dick and Heinlein and they never have any!

>>20248146
Knight oaths > Lord revelations

Anyone recommend any other coomer sci-fi/fantasy shit to read?
I only know about pic related from a list posted here some threads ago

>>20247294
Next to >>20247410 and Witcher there is Inkheart in German. Very fun book about a girl with the power to accidentally lead characters from the generic fantasy book she is reading into the real world. The second book Inkblood is very bad tho, as it is just slow generic fantasy with no merits.

There are also quite a few good generic fantasy series in German called The Elves and The Orcs which are above average for the genre. Then there is The Dwarves which is average. All from different authors, for some reason calling your series "The (fantasy race)" was a guarantor for success for a time here.

>>20248191
>book about a girl with the power to accidentally lead characters from the generic fantasy book she is reading into the real world.
>book about a girl
No thanks.

>>20248191
I remember the covers of "The (fantasy race)". The book stores were full of them.
I also remember books by Wolfgang and Heike Hohlbein, especially Midgard, which I loved as a teenager. No idea how they hold up now that I'm older. Maybe I should have a re-read of that one. They don't seem to have been translated into English, though.

>>20247917
good translation then

>>20247494
I don't know, his "growth" is honestly damning with faint praise at best, actively degrading at worst. Even if he gets better later I don't care, honestly I don't know why I read so far into these stories without really enjoying them either. Maybe just combination of being a fast reader and liking to nitpick and psychoanalyze stories. I got to the part where the half-elf gets bisected and lost interest.
I was briefly intrigued when he was stupidly about to overwrite his own brain with int points, but that got cockblocked before anything interesting happened and then immediately afterwards he demonstrated how boring and stupid he still was with the argument about Uthor.
I was hoping he'd either go totally nuts or become some sort of sociopathic brainjacked NPC, that could have been entertaining.

>>20248292
>I was hoping he'd either go totally nuts or become some sort of sociopathic brainjacked NPC
Something like that happens about halfway through. It only lasts for a chapter and a half, but it's pretty good.
If you're not enjoying it then you should stop reading. I loved it but it's not for everyone.

I'm using all my will power to keep at bay the dark grasp of Cringe from my mind while I try to read the last 50 pages of Mistborn: Hero of the Ages. I-I don't know if I will make it bros, I hope the dorito flakes in my stomach are enough to keep me awake.

>>20248311
Too foreshadowed desu, I could see that sort of thing coming from a mile away. The better way would be to never call attention to it. Personally if I was doing it I'd go for the other direction.
All the levlups and skills are actually a brain interface, as in he thinks something or trys to perform an action and it responds, suggests, or corrects it. So gradually a layer forms between him and his body of the system controlling his movements, words, actions, and altering sensations, emotions, and thoughts to match his numbers. Eventually it grows to the point where it can act on autopilot, and entire battles are fought by it alone, then it starts auto-navigating through conversations, generating it's own strategies, and constantly providing more and more elaborate "suggestions" by inserting them into his train of thought. Eventually he starts getting sick of it and wants to stop, but it won't let him perform "suboptimally" and seizes control over his body. He starts acting nuts and everyone is worried, so he comes up with a plan to "curehimself. Only it's not him, it's the system, coming up with a plan to remove him from his own body. And he starts questioning whether any of his friends actually know or like him more than the system that's been talking to them. Finally, it manages to "cure" itself and seize full control over his mind, but he checks the suicide option and winds up in hell. The he has to survive and escape, this time without relying on the system.

>>20248322
>mistborn
Oh man that takes me back. I also barely managed to fice myself through the finish line. Once you do it, read the rest of my post and tell me if you felt the same way.
Fooling your audience into thinking you're a shit writer, the story is an asspull that makes no sense, and the main character is a delusional retard isn't a good idea. Even when you leap out and explain "got you, I was only PRETENDING!" it doesn't undo all the shitty experience of reading the story.

>>20248435
That... Wasn't what it was?

>>20248419
>Too foreshadowed desu, I could see that sort of thing coming from a mile away
He spends a lot of time worrying about and trying to prevent exactly that scenario in the chapters before it happens. It's not supposed to be a surprise as such.
>spoiler
Sounds a little bit like Click (2006) starring Adam Sandler.
I think it's a good concept, but that it wouldn't work within the larger narrative.
>he checks the suicide option and winds up in hell. The he has to survive and escape, this time without relying on the system.
This part happens near the end, for what it's worth.

>>20248451
Yeah, the biggest proof I'm not into it is spoilers not making me want to read it. I like the process, not the goal, so usually I hear about something happening later in a story and think "wow, that's interesting, I wonder how that happened". But here's I'm thinking "ugh, how much more of this would I have to read to get to that part?" Bad sign.
In the end, I just have a personal dislike for the author, which obviously has a profound effect on a first person story where the main character is based off of him. Naturally any characters who get along with him I also don't particularly like, and as they become "more likeable" through the course of the story I like them less and less.
There's lots of nitpicks and flaws, etc.. that I also didn't like, but if I was onboard I wouldn't care about them so I'll give it a pass for me stopping due to a general lack of interest and not having any TRULY awful writing flaws that made me stop reading.

If I had to salvage and extract elements I think were genuinely excellent and interested me... I spent like 5 minutes running through the story in my head and actually couldn't think of anything. Probably why I quit. I can stand a drip feed, but there's only so long I'll hold my mouth open under the spigot without getting anything before I give up.

Pic-related was an April Fool's joke but I kinda like the idea of "somebody who can only fight has to do something extremely non-combat focused". Any books like that?

>>20247220
>>20247174
Both of you show massive ignorance about webfictions and Worth the Candle. There is a big divide between 'rational' fiction and typical webnovels, I have yet to see a rational webnovel that pumps out chapter by chapter like many LitRPGs do. I do agree that LitRPGs in general are a cry for control in life, with protagonists being able to reach some measure of it by 'leveling up' or just getting bigger numbers, but looking at the entire Progression Fantasy through this psychological lens just seems nonsensical when you actually read them. You mistake current zeitgeist with mental condition of people. Only the worst among webnovels have nothing to offer but increasingly bigger numbers.

At this point LitRPG is just a structure, scaffolding upon which an actual story the author wishes to tell because that's what popular these days. It's just an aesthetic, just like Sci-fi with space ships or Fantasy with elves and dragons. Extrapolating some trash fictions attributes on the majority of all written works results in muddied view of ther situation.


>I'm almost inclined to write a deconstruction, and I wonder how many others have been written and then buried by the hordes of litrpg addicts.
>The premise is simple enough, a litrpg/cultivation/isekai setting where all the matteris is optimizing yournumber. But then have everyone at every level exactly the same.
>At level 1 level 2 bandits bully you and steal your shit, at level 100 level 101 bandits bully you and steal your shit.
>You go from "collect 500 rat tails" to "collect 500 heavenly rodent tails". The local village girl won't date you because you're too weak, the local heavenly beuty won't date you because you're too weak, both in the end wind up marrying >people vastly below them in strength who are just more attractive and likeable than you are.
>The moral of the story is the mc eventually catching on that the numbers don't mean jack shit, they don't actually change who you are or your place in society, the REAL cultivation is deep introspection and personal development.

If only you weren't so arrogant you would actually read Worth The Candle and realize that this is exactly what you are talking about, a young cocky man who thinks that rationality and numbers is all that's needed to succeed, while suffering from emotional damage, mental afflictions and unhealthy outlook on life. The story itself is a deconstruction of a typical story about an isekaied male who disliked his life and becomes a hero in another world. WtC is focused on showing that the life doesn't work like that, that being a central figure of some narration is incredibly horrifying and brings extreme suffering. Collecting girls to fuck is not healthy. Wanting to live with a harem is not healthy. Focus on gathering power is delusional and brings nothing than pain. Being emotionally stunted and self-centered hurts everyone around. Artifical 'systems' with numbers aren't the solution.

>>20247220
What exactly is the problem? if you don't like litrpg don't read it then.
There are a ton of traditional fantasy (hugos and nebulas) that deal with human drama and current issues, you are welcome to read those.

>>20248608
Did you read some bizarro version of Worth the Candle that has all the themes backwards?
>a young cocky man who thinks that rationality and numbers is all that's needed to succeed
Reimer is a number-fucker, Juniper isn't. Juniper cares about numbers the correct amount for pretty much the entire gazillion words, i.e. they're vitally important to his survival but not intrinsically valuable.
Meanwhile rationality saves the day again and again.
>being a central figure of some narration is incredibly horrifying and brings extreme suffering
For all that this is discussed, Worth the Candle is firmly pro-story. Some people even say that's its primary message. Do you remember the very ending of the epilogue? How can you reconcile that with "being the main character is a bad deal"?
>Collecting girls to fuck is not healthy. Wanting to live with a harem is not healthy.
Much of Juniper's character development is about becoming less inhibited in this area, so much so that there wouldn't even be room to deliver this critique. The epilogue says (not entirely seriously but not entirely jokingly) that harems are great and you should definitely have them.
>Focus on gathering power is delusional and brings nothing than pain.
Half the plot is about gathering power and successfully using it to solve the world's problems. The artificial 'system' with numbers is a big help.

>>20248120
No, how many times do we have to tell you?

>>20248322
You were warned. Sanderson is hated here for a reason.

>>20248777
>Sanderson is hated here for a reason.
You mean because he's popular?

>>20248191
>Inkblood is very bad
I really can't wrap my head around the fact that the second book is about the idiot girl trying to go into the book the trapped her mother then the last one is about her entire family going to live there too. Its like the author got Stockholm syndrome for the world she made.

So what is the best fantasy series?

>>20248782
No because he's trash and we read real books here.

>>20248809
If you have to ask, you will never find out. It's Lord of the Rings. There is not a single fantasy book that anyone could list here that is better than Fellowship of the Ring within the fantasy genre.

>>20248809
The darkness that comes before

>>20248814
>real books
Nice larp e/lit/ist. Why don't you go back to outer lit and talk with the Christposters and /pol/lies?

>>20248608
>read Worth The Candle and realize that this is exactly what you are talking about
>it gets good after the first million words
Even if that's the case and it does go hard into subverting itself later, I still don't care. No author writes a million words of something he fundamentally disagrees with in a style vastly different than their intention. Stories do not fundementally change or improve as they go on, the same person writes the ending as wrote the beginning. This is a harsh lesson learned from experience.

And obviously you haven't notice rationalfic is actually just litRPG in disguise. Maybe you just haven't thought about it enough or read enough of it to notice.
As for the popularity question, see above. Not even a slavish automata writes an entire million word story SOLELY as a cashgrab. Even soulless imitation has the actual author bleed through unless he's either a very skilled writer, who wouldn't be making trash like that normally, or a team of writers al editing and mashing ideas together, which while possible seems implausibly elaborate for bottom of the barrel webfiction.

>>20248694
>drama and current issues
Exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Reading is a conversation with the author. Just because I don't enjoy talking with the strange obsessive loner MMO addict doesn't mean I'll have any more fun discussing modern politics with twitter experts and armchair redditors.

Most of the time I just read so I can talk about stuff here or in similar places. But metafiction isn't really my deal either so it has it's limits. At least we don't have levels here.

>>20248854
Snore of the Rings is shit.
Fuck out of here. Broken Sword by Anderson is leagues better.

>>20248809
Reverend Insanity.

>>20248183
Has anyone actually read this? I have this conception of chinese novels as something that could be really cool and interesting, but I tried reading Coiling Dragon and it sucked so much. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, but it didn't seem to be going anywhere interesting.

Walder Frey did nothing wrong

>>20248878
Imagine being filtered by the comfiest book in existence. However, I accept your defeat and surrender.

>>20248858
Funny how Sanderson fags bash Christposters when they read Sanderson books that are filled with Mormonism. Stupid liberals.

>>20249004
Hobbit is the comfiest book, fagget.

Don't reply to me or my son.

>>20249014
I'm not a Sandersonfag, I'm just saying that you don't speak for the general.
And I hate Christposters because they are braindead backwater bible thumping faggot fucks like you.

Go neck yourself

>>20249068
based dad, your wifes son loves you

>>20249076
>reddit spacing
Didn’t take you long to out yourself

>>20249076
Based anti-theist

>>20249068
It's up there, but nothing tops Fellowship comfy for me through Moria.

>>20249101
>ending a post with suggestion to an hero, and making sure it's visible by a break line is rebbit spacing

I guess all any person with proper grammar and english is rebbit then.

>>20248120
https://voca.ro/19vk1rRsT2Kj

>>20249101
>quote by fedoraposting newfag
The iron knee.

>jack vance dying earth
after reading demon princes I expected sci-fi, not fantasy.
This is pretty kino so far.

>>20247189
eyes of the overworld
cugel's saga

>>20247442
read aether of the night and shadows for silence, they are pretty good too

>>20248120
>>20249234
>https://voca.ro/19vk1rRsT2Kj
https://voca.ro/1jsVSAc9T7DC

>>20249234
While I don't think romance is a requirement for epic fantasy, I do think that romantic writing is. I wouldn't have high hopes for stormlight based on this vocaroo

>>20246740
TWI is fine, but it's nothing to fangirl so hard over. I respect the volume, but the quality never rises above "pleasant".

>>20246761
Reaper Man

>>20249391
Irony funny. Also, made me realize how fucking awkward I sound, and how much I stumble over words while speaking.

>>20248120
Don't invest yourself in it until it's done.

>>20248322
Just drop it. But of course you won't because you are a gape-assed homosexual who can't admit that you like it even though you're anonymous.

>>20249435
That's ridiculous. Theory posting online or debating with friends who have read it is half the fun of long-running series. And it isn't like you risk picking up a series that will never be finished with Stormlight since Sanderson is a fucking writing machine.

>>20249298
If this is true then I'm going to read locke lamora

>>20249446
>Sanderson is a fucking writing machine
He's also a fatty.

>>20249454
If gurm can survive as long as he has then Sanderson can definitely finish stormlight before his arteries clog to the point of no return.

>>20249475
Sanderson definitely can finish stormlight easily, guy writes in his sleep.

>>20248916
It's the best chinese webnovel, but only if you aren't allergic to villain protagonists.

>>20248878
https://voca.ro/1fG7z8nHf5JQ

>>20249497
Who wants to read what somebody writes in his sleep? He gets less thoughtful and more paint-by-numbers every year.

Someone with a facebook find out what is taking Soulship 5 so long because that nigger only has a FB page for updates.

>>20247048
I'm a bit into Part 3. I like it, feels like an Egan novel. I hope the ending does not let me down.

>>20249525
amerifats know only quantity, not quality. because there is an exorbitant amount of sandershit it must be good.

>>20249623
Exactly, That's why Canadians Rule Supreme.

>>20249634
This, Canadians value quality over quantity. because one Bakker book is worth more than a library full of Sandershits.

>>20249680
Unlike Amerifats they just CONSOOOM mormon literature in large quantities, just like hamburgers.

>>20249559
Is that the one about the guy who fucks his ship?

This place had me convinced I would hate King, but >picrel was good. Even though it was only 280-odd pages it could have done with being cut down a little.
I've also finally noticed that I can't conjure the image of what I'm reading while I'm reading it, it's all just words until afterwards and I can "see" it like a memory.

>>20249727
Go fuck a ship, King lover

>Kal doesn't take the shards
lmao, fuck this shit.

>>20249700
He hasn't even gotten a kiss yet.

>>20249780
>heartfelt confession in the first chapter
>no kissing by the 4th book
tell me at least he's handled her controls

>>20249789
They've confessed feelings and there is an acknowledgement of the ship's avatars possibly having their own feelings.
Funny though that people complain about it being a harem when nothing has happened for four books, and the only women who show any interest are the same girl.

>creates unique alien species
>only for them to be either setpieces or a mere plot device

>Read Wild Seed
>248 pages of African Superpower Eugenics program done by a 4,000 year old African bodyhopping superautist
> 248 pages of rape, sex, implied incest, spiritual incest, and implied animal sex
What did Octavia E. Butler mean by this

>>20250044
>248 pages of African Superpower Eugenics program done by a 4,000 year old African bodyhopping superautist
This might have been cooler as a rap album instead of half a novel

>>20250066
>Octavia
Stopped reading there

Any knight theme fantasy you can recommend

>>20249727
I thought this was going to be a detective/mystery book and it was just a le coming of age where the mystery is magically solved at the end after being ignored for 279 pages.

>>20248435
Just finished, it was an asspull, but I thought it would be worse so I'd rate the whole saga as a 5.5/10; the best part for me was the first 70% of book 1.

>>20250080
A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is kino. The original romances like Le Morte d'Arthur and Yvain, the Knight of the Lion are good too. Heard good things about Three Hearts, and Three Lions.

>>20249377
Now make the same pic but for portal fantasy novels

>>20249727
Glad you liked it, Sometimes people convince you not to try something but you might be missing out, especially the ones who hate famous or known things, sometimes something is famous for a reason.

>>20250219
This, especially with Bakker, mormons tried to convince me not to read him but I missed out big time.

They're a shocking lack of non-light novel Japanese fantasy books.

Cognitive estrangement

>>20249623
>>20249634
>>20249680
>>20249691

>>20250024
Based Vance not falling for the MUH WORLD-BUILDING meme.

>>20250093
Like reading an anime.

Anyone else planning on buying a huge stack of books soon ? I feel like I'll buy at least 10, and i will read one per year at most. I'm just addicted to buying stuff

>>20250181
Will take years with the forced word minimums on every royalroad novel and by then a actual good portal fantasy will come out instead of the whole shit brigade of royalroad s’ too 100

>>20250568
No I just switched to buying a kindle and downloading books. Maybe I'll buy some physical books when I like the art and it's a large edition.

>>20250568
I want to spend my rent money on Suntup and Folio Society hardcovers.

>>20248211
Hohlbein's are a curious case, in that Wolfgang Hohlbein writes a lot of books, and most of them, while having some geeat ideas, are awfull.
Only when his wife co-writes the quality rises and they become good books, I fondly remember "Märchenmond" by them together as a kid aswell.
Kinda cute how well their styles complement each other, but don't read Wolfgang Hohlbein on his own, unless you are mining for DnD inspiration.

Bought the entire Sherlock Holmes collection and Ubik

>>20250615
Get a Kobo. Supports more formats, is far more modable and does not involve Bezo's cock in your mouth

>>20250024

>creates fantastical worlds buoyed by enamoring sets of words he refuses to explain, e.g. Ascolais in the Land of the Falling Wall
>writes interesting plots of high adventure and low cunning
>its all actually an excuse, he cares not an iota for any of that
>its all to get characters in scenes together where they can just talk mad shit at each other

what's Bakker up to lately? Has he given up writing?

>>20250906
Getting smothered by ass and pussy 24/7

>>20246955
some of these sound cool, might give it a read

You guys memed me into reading Worm. The fuck is wrong with the characters? Bunch of deranged and lunatic people I swear

>>20251249
How far in reading it are you? It's hilariously deranged at times

>>20250666
Yeah. I've read Azrael and it's sequel and didn't like it as much as Midgard or Drachenfeuer. I think it was called Drachenfeuer.
The books by him and his wife used to be sold in those thick black hardcovers for a good price. I loved them.

Sword and Sorcery panel with David C Smith, Jake Jaquet, and Joe Bonadonna.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Countadred/videos

>>20251280
>those thick black hardcovers

Cop or not?

I HAVE FINISHED INVERTED WORLD
The book was short, the pacing and trickle of reveals/answers was superb, the sci-fi was hard, and the ending was quite fucking anticlimatic.

I decided to not read Bastion for now or more Doctor Who novels and now I'm checking out the Infinite Realm litRPG cultivation series. It begins with one of the MCs trying to kill the other (they were best friends) while being the only two surviving humans on Earth, then teleported to the aforementioned Infinite Realm which is like the 'next stage' you see in xianxia, I guess. I'm 10 chapters in and it flips between present and past with POVs between each of the two characters.

>>20251374
>LitRPG cultivation
Hoo boy. I'm sure some of those are good, but a lot of them seem mediocre or just... Kinda good.

>>20247156
>>20247215
They're army nicknames. Really outlandish names are usually reserved for equally as outlandish character.
>mfw K'Chain Che'Malle

Will sword and sorcery ever return?

>>20251397
>Just throw in apostrophes to make a fantasy name

Hey resident Wandering Inn shill, sell me on this story as someone who has zero interest in litRPG, what does this story have to offer that the other 100 webnovels don't?

>>20251249
Wildbow probably needs therapy, but he's an entertaining writer despite his issues with pacing and other issues, have fun anon.

Nightside of the Long Sun starts off slow I thought, in the first two chapters, and it has pretty long chapters so that's like 15% of the book, but it got exciting.

>>20251436
I find I have to force myself to read most novels for the first fifty to a hundred pages before I get invested. I think it's just ADD brain though.

>>20251412
Ja'ne D'oe

>>20251390
In my experience, most have been poor. I normally stay away from litRPG but I've read some other series by this guy and they're passable. The writing in this one is noticeably improved, compared to some of his other/earlier works.

>>20251446
If a writer hasn't sold me on a book by page 50 it's going in the garbage

>>20251450
I've enjoyed some LitRPGs, but a lot of them are just boring. Only one I really, enjoyed was He Who Fights With Monsters because it's more about the protagonist as a person. A Touch of Power was another series I tried and it was decent, but the author seems to have an issue with having no idea what the fuck pacing is (protagonist has been in the world for like 18 days as of book 4 and is arguably the most powerful human being in the world, albeit paling in comparison to ancient monsters and shit) and introduces too many fucking characters. There's like 30-40 characters in the first two books alone that you're supposed to care about, I feel like.

>>20250141
>Three Hearts, and Three Lions
I didn't enjoy it, Poul Anderson has an annoying tendency to write fantasy which just exists as a way to jack off modern science and society

>>20251321

>>20251410
there's definitely some written in the style of those old pulps

>>20251446
To be fair, in those two chapters he set up the main characters and setting/world and conflict that's going to develop over a 4 book, 1000+ page series.

Rereading BotNS, why is gook-bot smitten with the thot? I don't get it. Is it some magic fucking up his robobrain?

>>20246761
Six swords, one skeleton, and a sewer

>>20251425
>Hey resident Wandering Inn shill, sell me on this story as someone who has zero interest in litRPG, what does this story have to offer that the other 100 webnovels don't?
Picrel my earlier TWI shilling, but if you want to know how it's better than other webnovels, then for one it's not a normal LitRPG that's focused on 'numbers go up,' the entire idea of characters having Levels and Skills comes from DnD and table-top games rather than computer games, so it's purpose is different than other systems, serving the story rather than the reverse. It was started in 2016, and the author said (IIRC) that they didn't really know of LitRPGs back then, it was something created in parallel to tge genre, not a part of it.

Quality-wise, it's head and shoulders above 95% of webnovels. When I say I read thousands of books and would still The Wandering Inn top 50 of everything I've read, I mean it. It's an amazing Epic Fantasy with original characters and great characterization, with plot that is incredibly epic and yet full of slice of life. It's honestly unlike any other story I've read, it seems very basic on the surface, with basic fantasy elements such as goblins, dragons and other fantasy races, but the execution of the idea is amazingly good. If you don't like typical LitRPGs, or even the genre, TWI is very likely to be enjoyable to you. The 'system' in the story isn't actually some thing in the background that just exists and serves as quick dopamine shot from seeing numbers going higher, but has its own important place in the story.

As I said in the earlier post, the rewrite is coming, so if you are willing to wait to the next year you are likely to experience a better version of the first volume. However, after thinking on it, I don't think people should really wait for the rewrite if they are interested in the story. The first volume isn't bad, but only decent. It contains only a sliver of the greatness that comes later. Back then the author was still figuring things out with their writing, the earlier volumes are very different from the later ones. As it is, the first two volumes are just decent, the third one being a bit less liked due to certain events, however if you get to the fourth you will see how the entire thing starts to roll and with Volume 5 you will realize you are reading the better part of literature. Volumes 6, 7 and 8 are knocking everything out of the park, but by the time you get to them you will already know.

In case you think: 'But I don't want to wait before I get to the good part,' the earlier volumes aren't bad. Just not as good as the later ones. The first three volumes are also only 15% of the entire story, as it grows with every volume. I personally considered dropping the story a lot during the first three volumes, Main Character was really insufferable at times, but there were things that kept me in. Now I am glad I kept reading, because TWI is top 10 of the best stories I've read in my life.

The RR in George RR Martin stands for "Retard Retard"

>>20251542
>>/lit/thread/S10550748#p10559050

>>20251557
Yeah, it wasn't a critique of Wolfe as much as it's just an observation of my own reading habits.

God damn, you guys weren’t joking. Bakker truly is the best writer to have been shat out of this general.

Wolfe>Herbert>Tolkien>Bakker

>>20247215
It's a kind of bird in Canada also known as a Gray Jay. They're very docile and come to you if you visit BC

>>20251796
Bakker basically synthesized Herbert and Tolkien, succeeding both.

>>20251662
Without spoiling anything, does it have a decent sense of progression?

>>20251775
Slow start that takes page after page to set up characters and setting without getting on with the plot is a perfectly valid criticism. That sort of thing is awfully common in spec fic. Wolfe is a kind of special case in that he tended to write for rereading with the skill to pull that off, so the plot does actually start from the beginning even though it isn't readily apparent at first.

>>20251726
Why do you remember a post from 2018?

does APGTE have good side characters?

>>20251805
Nah, he doesn't push the envelope in any significant way unlike both Tolkien and Herbert who both innovated within the genre and influenced not only sff books but other forms of media for decades to come. TSA is a well constructed story but that's all it is. I can't possibly concieve of people continuing to read Bakker even 50 years from now, unlike Tolkien and Herbert, who will be read for centuries to come.

>>20251827
Because that was my post, anon. I can't believe it has been four years.
I wish I could find people who would read books I liked!

>>20251828
I've heard there's a couple characters that were particularly beloved, but they're later on?

>>20251569
He recognizes the mixture of human and artificial nature in her that he also possesses, that plus Wolfe is a big believer in love at first sight, I imagine because it happened to him with his wife Rose, if only we could all be so lucky.

>>20251858
I understand the romantic appeal of love at first sight, but it's always hard for me to get into, because... Well, love is something you learn you feel about somebody, I've felt. I guess it's just different strokes.

Looking for a palette cleanser after reading Mistborn Era 1, preferably something:
>stand-alone, not part of a saga
>300-400 pages long
>no planet-level stakes, something more local to the characters.
>mysterious and/or dangerous magic

>>20251862
I tend to agree with you there. I think if love at first sight is a real thing it's rarer than all hell but part of me thinks if someone as smart as Wolfe believed in it maybe there's something to it after all.

>>20251875
I can totally get infatuation at first sight, for sure, and somebody who's romantically-minded might think of that as love, and hey it might genuinely become love, but even in fiction it's something I find myself never quite liking if it's played up as true love at first sight, and I'm usually big on romantic subplots.

>>20251874
idk read the sword of bayne trilogy :)

>>20251920
It's a valid criticism to make, especially since it seems like the only kind of romance Wolfe tends to write, where a man just becomes completely infatuated after a single conversation and ends up pursuing her to the ends of the earth, fairytale style. Not super immersive.

>>20251840
Lmao nobody will read 50 years hence period. Bakker developed Herbert's core idea of false prophets and heroism, and his works stems further straight from Tolkien in being a classical epic fantasy without falling into modern pitfalls of realism, low, dark, cynicism, or self-aware trends. TSA is both spiritual and philosophical in nature yet doesn't shy away from showing the ugliness inherent to each great deed. Bakker is arguably the last great fantasy writer the West will ever get, it's all troons and litrpg from now on

>>20251806
>Without spoiling anything, does it have a decent sense of progression?
Progression in what meaning? In general people mean power progression when they say that, and in that case TWI might not be the best story for that. Yes, the main cast gets progressively more powerful, in different ways, but this a real story, not 'numbers going up,' so it's not the main focus.

If you mean story progression, then the stakes and events grow in importance with every volume. At first things are local, but in future volumes amny plotlines connect and suddenly you have word-changing events all around. But in general you should expect that it's a story about characters and what happens to them, characters always come first in TWI.

>>20251972
>Bakker developed Herbert's core idea of false prophets and heroism, and his works stems further straight from Tolkien in being a classical epic fantasy without falling into modern pitfalls of realism, low, dark, cynicism, or self-aware trends.
He regurgitates ideas and themes from his favorite stories and authors but ultimately nothing new to say.

I'm working on a fantasy story and I was thinking of adding a timeloop to it. The main characters won't be experiencing the loop, but it'd be a major character instead revealed to be looping to make things go his way. He might even be the final antagonist of the story, but then I have to find a convoluted way for him to be defeated. Originally this character had the ability to see possible future outcomes, but I thought about changing it to him having lived out those futures. I know adding time travel to a story can make things messy. Any thoughts?

>>20252090
I don't think there can be any tips from us in this regard. The only thing you must do is properly execute your idea, it can be as complicated or simple as you want it, it only has to work and be enjoyable. If you are worried about time stuff, I advise to read about stories that use it and compare to your idea. For instance, In Worm there is a character that can live in two realities at once, and can diverge whenever he wants, so he can do different things in both realities and then choose the more beneficial one and diverge again, ad perpetuum. How was he beaten? He was driven to a state where every reality ended with his death. Seek stories like that, look at what worked and what not, what you enjoyed and what aggravated you.

>>20252090
Well, the first example of a timelooping villain that comes to mind is from the first Final Fantasy, however there's little justification as to why he's beaten in the game and he mostly only is in a time loop to live forever, but it's something.

>>20252090
Besides being a dead horse not worth introducing unless you have something really new to add, time manipulation tends to affect any story in ways usually bad and unforeseen, it welcomes ideas and questions you probably didn't expect to matter. People are still butthurt about time-turner in Harry Potter. At least science fiction can get away with time travel by using it for fun near-scientific concepts like time dilation, pocket/parallel dimensions, accelerated civilizations etc but in fantasy the explanation is usually "the wizard did it" and for such a big plot element it's unsatisfying

>>20252164
Hard rules on time travel can generally help if it's a minor element of a story (can't actually change the past, it already changed, you only make new timelines but don't affect your own, etc.), though some stories with big time travel elements actually have very soft rules on time travel. Time-loops are usually a pretty easy one, because typically only one character is actually in the loop, and they're the main focus, so there's very little question of "Why didn't X just use time travel" because it's often the entire plot is getting out of the loop or making a perfect one, etc.

>>20252090
What would this add? Would it just be a cool set piece for his character, or would it deeply intertwine with the plot, his motivations, the world, etcetera?
Time travel is expensive, so to speak. It better be worth it.

I hope I can ask this question without getting in trouble with the general police. Just ignore if you feel that much offended by me asking this question

You guys got any recommendations for fantasy series that take place in ancient world similar to the Dark Sun and Conan the Barbarian?

>>20252180
It can play into a character's nihilism. He's tried everything every loop and nothing has ever changed, and to him, nothing ever will change, because it'll all go back to the start.

>>20252090
Why is this general so obsessed with timeloops lately?

>>20252202
we're in one

>>20252189
>You guys got any recommendations for fantasy series that take place in ancient world similar to the Dark Sun and Conan the Barbarian?
Karl Edward Wagner's Kane series. Definitely more on the anti-hero side of things, though.

>>20251985
Does the book HAVE to say something new™ to be considered good? Haven't we had enough postmodern bugaloo revolutions in literary works in the past 50 years which all led to the state of affairs today? Bakker wrote a saga that is coherent, lucid, honest, thematically and conceptually sound, imaginitive, with a great prose to boot. If you're so hung on new™ ideas, what about Kellhus being the Inverse Prophet, a message from humanity to Gods? Or Cnaiur being a breakaway member of stale civilization, experiencing a kind of schizophrenia from total detachment? Or Thousandfold Thought, symbols preceding minds that inhabit them? What about White Luck? What about Dunyain as a whole? What about Inchoroi as a product of late stage technocracy? The Judging Eye?

>>20252090
In almost all cases, from outsidie a timeloop, the looper just seems obscenely, ludicrously lucky to the point of disbelief. Everything always turns out just so exactly as it would most benefit him. And also he's omniscient. The only way to defeat him is to either alter his or your own motivations to match, or for some sort of cosmic inevitability to stand in his way. Unless there's more than one looper, which rapidly degenerates into all of them just being highly experienced.

Do you think you've got an angle on that that either makes it interesting or removes some of the limitations?

>>20252190
Why not just make him really old?

>>20252292
I wish they would reprint it

>>20252491
They're different flavours. Somebody stuck in a time loop may have lost all hope for free will or anything being real, whereas somebody who's lived forever may have simply grown detached from humanity, etc.

>>20252487
Honestly, that's a premise. Somebody who's been lording over a timeloop and living a godlike existence as the villain, whereas a fledgling timelooper is the protagonist who has to deal with the only other person in the world who isn't just doing the same thing.

>>20252189
In Savage Lands - Jason Thummel
Rogues of Merth - Robert Zoltan
Necromancy in Nilztiria - D.M. Ritzlin
Rakefire and Other Stories - Jason Carney
The Throne of Bones - Brian McNaughton
Mask of the Sorcerer - Darrell Schweitzer

>>20251542
Hernstrom is beyond based. The Eye of Sounnu is another collection of his and is also great.

>>20252134
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind and I've wanted to check out Worm for a while, will probably read it after I finish BotNS

>>20252170
>>20252180
>What would this add?
I guess this is the fundamental question. The magic system I have is 1 spell per person and the type of power is hereditary, so there's a family of pyromancers, necromancers, chronomancers, etc. The royal family is a bunch of time mages who can do time dilation/time freeze and some vague predictions, and was built with an immortal king. The looper character in mind is the immortal king's son.

If I give him just an ability to see possible futures it feels more vague and less impactful than "I actually lived out the life where I made that difficult decision." and my idea was that the only way he can loop was via death and he has to start over from his birth, so he's in for the long haul with every loop. Because he is looping, he thinks of his time as a precious resource before he'll inevitably go insane/numbed to unending existence. He's not offing himself the moment he fucks something minor up. and is a bit self-aware that the longer he lives the more he becomes like his immortal father as the value of human life diminishes, and just wants his kingdom to survive and to defeat the 'greater evil' in the story, even if it means leaving a trail of blood that hurts the main characters who wants to be free from his tyrannical family.

So the pros seem to be meaning to the character that makes him more mature and rugged. The cons? Well, I have to come up with a resolution to defeating a looper. Maybe even if it's just him "taking what he can get" and making a compromise in the end because he's fed up with looping.

>>20252491
>>20252615
I think the difference between the "immortal king" and the "looping prince" is that the immortal king sees people come and go time after time, kind of seeing people like "pets" in the sense that you'll outlive them all, whereas the looper sees these people as usable, if not disposable, components to make his ideal reality come to fruition.

>>20252621
I have a way to introduce a 2nd looper but I don't know if I want to go down that rabbithole with this story where looping isn't supposed to be the main conflict.

>>20252721
Defeating a time looper is like defeating a time stopper: You need another one, some absurd weakness, or for them to just give up.

>>20252621
>the new guy's timeloop is caused by the old guy breaking the timeloop

>>20252732
>Old guy remembers the new timeloop and desperately wants to find and kill the new looper so he can just be free

>>20252742
>old guys and new guy are actually the same person
>not only is there a timeloop, there's also time travel within the loop
>the loop escape didn't work, and actually just destroyed the universe
>so the old guy AFTER the end of the loop time travelled back to the past to stop himself, but got amnesia in the process

>>20252756
Eh, that's too much now.

>>20252757
Yeah but timeloop stories are kinda boring unless you can get into convoluted timetravel bullshit.
How about a physical timelooper(portals that let him go back in time), a precog, and a return by death looper all in conflict.
The traveller has a large number of duplicates working together but can be killed normally, varies in knowledge, and eliminating his "beginning" will permanently off all of him.
The precog is actually vulnerable because he's too powerful and sees the single future AFTER all the loops and time travel stop, so he has to use deductive reasoning to figure out what's happening in the current loop.
The looper is impossible to kill, and can optimize his route, but is constrained to a specific window unlike the others.

>>20252190
Isn't nihilism tricky for a character that's agentic and going around actively doing things?

>>20252721
Here's a concept: when your time traveler dies he goes back, creating a new timeline, but the current timeline keeps existing. From your heroes' point of view he stays dead if killed. He has a lot of foreknowledge and unusual priorities for risk-taking, but he's not all-powerful.
You need to establish this property to make the stakes clear. Maybe he has ancestors who had the same power. If multiple of those ancestors were alive at the same time then they could have figured out that dying split the timeline rather than rewinding it.

>>20252893
>Isn't nihilism tricky for a character that's agentic and going around actively doing things?
Not really. It's another video game example, but Flowey from Undertale basically had this exact scenario going on prior to the game's start. He played every permutation he could think of, just to see what would happen, because he didn't really care about consequences eventually. So he eventually just became a sadistic nihilist because he stopped viewing the people he knew as people, he just saw them as puppets following lines. It takes the arrival of the protagonist, who basically overrides his ability, to get him to feel much of anything.

>>20247405
Sometimes schlock authors are just brand names, written by anyone for hire for a flat fee and sold to people looking for "more like this".

>>20252966
That just proves my point—Flowey has to have his power taken away and snap out of the nihilism to be able to play a role in the plot.
(I've actually tried to plot out prequel fan fiction for Flowey before, but I never got far because it just doesn't make for an interesting plot. It's a good backstory but not a good story.)

>>20252984
I think you can have a story within a villain's time loop work out still, by having this be the loop they finally just break down or some such.

>>20253021
But once again you do this by removing the nihilism (and the time loop). Like I said, nihilism makes for a good backstory but not a good story.

>>20253028
Sure, but the point is it works as a set-up for the villain's perspective. It's what the villain is proven wrong on.

>>20250874
Fukken based

>>20251460
Yes.jpg

>>20252893
>when your time traveler dies he goes back, creating a new timeline, but the current timeline keeps existing

So what makes the written timeline so special that its story is worth being told over the others?

>>20253105
From the point of the looper, nothing, perhaps.
I think that's fine as long as you keep the other timelines at a distance and don't view things from the looper's perspective too much. There's plenty of fiction where many alternate realities exist without making the story feel meaningless.
The idea that your duplicates are going on the same adventure in a parallel timeline and having a harder time because of you is disquieting, but it's also invisible, and life goes on, you know?

>>20251874
Might aswell be asking for a unicorn, everyone writes long series right now.

pic related is the only book in my collection which meets your critera, especially the page count. I know quite a few in the 600 range.
It is proto Wheel of Time, published years after the demise of the author, but I must confess I havn't read it yet myself.

>>20253122
wrong image, Under Heaven is one of the 600 word books I was thinking of. This is the one I meant.

>>20253122
>>20253126
can you tell me a couple of those ~600 pages books please?

>>20251775
Not at all, I was more qualifying what I said. I've been dropping a novel if it doesn't hook me in the first 5 pages lately, cause I have so much to choose from.
>>20251819
In the case of Nightside, in the first chapter he receives a series of visions from his enlightenment, so that provides a little foreshadowing puzzle to try and figure out what they mean for the plot.

>>20247917
Yeah that's common for his works, he loves to write super flowery prose

>>20251984
To clarify, from reading old reviews, coupled with the title being about an "wandering inn" it gave me the impression that this series was about an inn collecting tragic stories in a shitty world without much of a driving plot that moves things forward. And i figured that this was the reason why TWI ended up with that reputation you mentioned in your other post.

That was a while ago though so the specifics elude me, this is just the loose impression i got. I have no idea what the story is actually like (no spoilers pls). This is one of the reasons why i was hesitant to pick this up back then.

So yeah, this is also why i was wondering about its sense of progression. It's partly about power, but it's also about plot.

>>20251874
Piranesi? I thought it was okay, some people liked it more than me. The setting is great.

UUUUUUHHHHHHH
BAKKER!!!

>>20253290
>UUUUUUHHHHHHH
>BAKKER!!!

I've almost finished reading Bastion! What should I read next?

>>20253365
>What should I read next?
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60377204-kairos

>>20252292
>>20252650
Thank you kindly for the recs!


>>20252292
Centipede Press had reprinted new copies of the Kane Novels. Unfortunately they only do special editions that are absurdly overpriced for book. I wish they would do regular nothing special hardcover copies of the books they have printed. They wanted $595 for special edition of Kafka on the Shore.

Sean Astin said recently Lord of the RIngs was meant to warn us about Putin and he compared Ukraine to Gondor. Wow all this time I never understood these books until now.

>>20253538
sovl

>>20253515
Should Virtuous Sons get published?

>>20253739

All these celebrities are sick in the head.

>>20251843
Any recent S&S that you've liked? Been looking to scratch that Leiber and Howard itch.

recommend me a book based on this image

>>20253825
Journey to the West

>>20253739
I have never been so proud to have no idea who someone is.

>>20253825
Lord of the Rings

>>20253854
It the actor who played Sam in the movies.

>>20253739
>Sean Astin said recently Lord of the RIngs was meant to warn us about Putin and he compared Ukraine to Gondor.
lmfao what a gay retard

>>20253854
i'll steal that line, man. decent.

>That fifty page Moenghus tirade after meeting with Kellhus

this is the most hilarious shit I've read, a pivotal plot point that falls flat on its face. First of all, it makes no sense for him to tell all that shit since Kellhus already knows that and Moenghus knows that he knows. Furthermore, it exposes how grossly oversimplified Bakker's Dunyain concept is, as their inane observations about "world-people" consistently show them up as simpletons. Really? There are hierarchies and belief propels people forward? You don't say. And the entire thread hanging on nature vs. nurture just makes the entire thing read like /r/atheism post which I have little doubt Bakker frequented. At one time Moenghus starts preaching grade school communism. At least it was funny when it turned out he willingy let them blind him because he forgot he can read faces. But, Bakker immediately adds some few paragraphs later, he can read timbre so it really doesn't matter after all. What the fuck.

>>20253973
So... two books in one?

>>20253854
https://youtu.be/GQQF9xmqsWg
The fat hobbit, I was watching him and his book club talk about the books and he had like a 10 minute segue about current events. Obviously I'm paraphasing but it was pretty cringe. He was like, "I know Tolkien hates allegory but he said that because he didn't just mean Hitler, but all evil tyrants so it could be relevant to this day with Putin" or something. I'm not rewatching.

>>20253983
I thought Putin was Voldemort, not Sauron.

Is it worth a read if i have already seen the movie?

Speaking of, LOTR: Online is giving away a bunch of free shit (content, classes, etc.) if anyone is interested.

>>20253739
Literally who?
I read fantasy to stay away from real world.

>>20254004
No, now fuck off back to /v/.

>>20253983
>>20253991
Sauron is actually based and red pilled, Tom Bombadil is a fat onions boi that hops around and get sissified when a hunk orc violates him. this is what Gandalf and his twink elves want, total sissification of Middle Earth.

>>20254014
Total Sissification of Middle Earth is the true realistic ending, there is NO WAY that manlet (frodo) and his simp of a friend (sam) can win against Sauron the supreme ruler of middle earth.

>>20253997
the movie was based (unironically and intentionally) on the overall impression the book left on the director, rather than the actual page-by-page plot of the novel. the plot diverges so wildly that you aren't even spoiled

>>20254014
Tolkien is too pure to even think such things about middle earth

>>20253818
>recent
Not really. I don't read much sword and sorcery, to be honest. I mentioned it earlier but I liked the Sword of Bayne trilogy and the Lerebus Shieldbreaker collection, both by the same author, written in the early 2010s. Maybe the Mage Hunter collection by the same guy would be relevant to you as well. He wrote a lot in the same universe but it's rather loosely connected and very low fantasy, imo.
I'm not at my computer or I'd look through my goodreads for more titles.

>>20253978
It should've been 2 books of 300 pages each, not 1 book of 800 pages.

>>20254189
Sounds like Iron Prince. These first novels are too big.

>>20254195
Iron Prince is the opposite. The 1st (and 2nd, possibly the 3rd?!) book of IP should be 1 book that's much shorter. I mean, IP doesn't even really end properly. Mock JKR for her formulaic writing all you like but the school year provides a clear time period in which the contents of the story should be set. Iron Prince ends at the first qudditch match.

>>20252292
I wish it was still possible to read, can't find it anywhere.

>>20251371
>$1500
lmao no

>>20248120
They get worse as they go. Each book has a big twist at the end. Character development always backpeddles or is to slow. Each book should be 500 pages instead of 1000. You could cut half the pages out and I doubt you would be able to tell anything is missing. I hear people talk all the time about how WoT kills too much time in later books but fuck I can't imagine it's much worse than stormlight. That being said I like the first 2 a lot and breezed through both in a week each. I could even finish book 4.

>>20253997
yep

>>20251874
You could try warbreaker by sanderson. It's very boring but it's my favorite book of his.

>>20254299
> Each book should be 500 pages instead of 1000.
I've read that he does this on purpose because people would rather spend audible credits on longer books or just prefer longer books in general when spending their money. He's always a businessman first and a writer second.

>>20253974
>First of all, it makes no sense for him to tell all that shit since Kellhus already knows that and Moenghus knows that he knows.
The entire point of PoN events was to MAKE sure that Kellhus knows what Moe discovered, a plan that apparently went to shit because Kellhus went mad (aka learned human emotions). Dunyain do not leave things to chance, their communications are basically like two computers exchanging protocols.
>Furthermore, it exposes how grossly oversimplified Bakker's Dunyain concept is, as their inane observations about "world-people" consistently show them up as simpletons.
In case you're going to read Aspect-Emperor... congratulations, thats the point. Dunyain ARE simpletons. Just extremely dangerous simpletons, apes with grenades. Both Kellhus and multiple other dunyain realise that and reject their philosophy entirely. One of the lines in TUC says that Dunyain mastered "the meat of the world" but missed the mark on everything else there is also an unintentionally funny part where lots of dunyain commit suicide upon witnessing magic, because it goes against their entire belief system in cause preceding effect
>And the entire thread hanging on nature vs. nurture just makes the entire thing read like /r/atheism post which I have little doubt Bakker frequented. At one time Moenghus starts preaching grade school communism.
Are you one of those bible larpers? Please grow up. Also, Gods are blatantly real in Bakker's works, while scientism is presented as the ultimate evil. Very atheistic.
>At least it was funny when it turned out he willingy let them blind him because he forgot he can read faces. But, Bakker immediately adds some few paragraphs later, he can read timbre so it really doesn't matter after all. What the fuck.
It's explicitly made clear that Moe made a mistake thinking that learning sorcery is a worthy trade-off in exchange for vision, he didn't realise that the basis of Psukhe is passion which the Dunyain lack entirely, making him a bitch-tier nobody. Plus, he already had Maithanet to fall back on

>>20254413
>Kellhus went mad (aka learned human emotions)
I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't Kellhus learned human emotions. It was that he communed with a god. His human emotions aren't a factor in PoN. It seems it was in the time skip between PoN and AE that he began to develop them.

>>20253974
Read something better and save yourself from garbage series.

>>20254428
He cries for the first time on Umiaki tree, not knowing why. Its also clear that he develops a certain sentimentality towards Cnaiur whom he spares despite it being a huge liability, and leaves Moe for him to find. He also spares Akka for 20 years for Esme alone even though Akka proceeded to write a bunch of cuck diaries that messed up his plans

Looking to study the Urban Fantasy genre, any good urban fantasy stories involving psychics (humans or empaths with some sort of sixth sense power) and demons (Judeo-Christian Fallen Angels, or Oni, or hellspawns). Ideally one involving both? Perhaps at odds with each other?

>>20254454
Fair enough on the first. But he had reasons for the other two.

>>20254212
https://www76.zippyshare.com/v/SDMTIEcC/file.html

>>20254413
First of all, my point about Dunyain being simpletons is tied to the way Bakker depicts them: it's completely unrealistic that they're able to cover all the angles in each and every situation, but then he goes an extra step and has Kellhus grasping arrows from the air and being the invincible warrior that he is. I did think they are like algorithms, but Bakker has this unpleasant habit of consistently and constantly going over the worst traits of epistemology, such as the "problem" of free will that denigrated it lower than Scholastics when it comes to modern philosophical inquiry. The cause preceding effect (or vice versa) is the modern version of Presocratic mumbo jumbo, a conundrum that stems from endless turning over of two points converging into nothingness, much like the proof of the external world and Cartesian scepticism. Both Bakker and Dunyain would do better to just read Hume as he cannot be bothered to go with Wittgenstein and simply have them shut up. I actually got bored with the series after Kellhus's master plan of letting himself hanged with Serwe (of course!) so masterfully succeeded so I fast forwarded to the end of book 3 and saw that Cuckchamian finally realized he was merely pretending all along. But then I got bored and read the book 3 anyway. Another thing about the books is that their ancient evil's only goal is to recede into nothingness, or at least remake the living Earth into such place. The only part of the novels I really liked is Cnaiur's voyage with Serwe-skinwalker but he did not manage to turn the screw on the madness of it all. I also like the warring factions but the Consult is just so boring of a concept.

>>20254487
Password: aroundjewsneversnooze

>>20253825
never read it but the palette on this reminds me of the hyperion edition my public library had

I just found out this is getting a n*tflix series after years in development hell.
I read it in high school and I thought it had some interesting stuff going on, overall I'd say it's 8/10, bretty good for a King book. The sequel was good too but I hated the ending.

>>20253825
Lords of Dyscrasia

>>20254130
>Tolkien is too pure
Oh no no no no

>>20254454
Agreed. got a kek from the cuck diary part too. (You)

>>20246740
Is this worth reading? it's almost 10 milllion words and I basically burnt myself out reading Worm which was like 1.7 mill

>>20252202
Mother of Learning probably

>>20252202
>he hasn't written a timeloop litrpg or gamer fanfic yet
ngmi

>>20254485
>>20254487
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)16:44:22 No.20254747▶>>20254752 >>20254790 >>20254810
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All three of my romance novels flopped Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:22:09 No.20252862▶>>20252871 >>20252912 >>20252961 >>20253180 >>20253185 >>20253203 >>20253219 >>20254711 >>20254724 >>20254731 >>20254740 >>20254742
>friend is a romance author
>made $100,000 last year
>decide to become a romance author myself
>challenging and time consuming
>work 3 months straight
>my books totally flop.

I am currently trying to do a fourth but it is seeming very futile at this stage. How do I write romance in a way that middle aged normie women, and gays appreciate?
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:23:51 No.20252871▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
>How do I write romance in a way that middle aged normie women, and gays appreciate?
You have to pick one, it's impossible to appeal to both in significant numbers
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:24:46 No.20252877▶
Write a book about a handsome gay man who gets seduced by an aged hagraven.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:31:06 No.20252899▶
What's your friend's name? I'm genuinely curious to read their work now kek.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:32:54 No.20252912▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
Women love rape and someone to take care of them. Also pirates

Gay men are like men and they like physical things
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:40:11 No.20252944▶
Just get the bestsellers, distill their formula and archetypes and just fill the rest for your books. Don't tell me you're actually trying to make up shit.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)08:43:42 No.20252961▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
It's all about marketing and not how you write.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)09:45:18 No.20253180▶>>20253220 >>20254726
File: men vs womyn.png (2.67 MB, 1328x1254)
2.67 MB
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
>How do I write romance in a way that middle aged normie women, and gays appreciate?
Write abusive smut. That's what holes like. Arrogant bullies who are also tall, muscular, rich, and for some reason obsessed with them even though they're mediocre females.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)09:46:40 No.20253185▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
are you using a female pseudonym? if not, use it.
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)09:51:26 No.20253203▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
Maybe you're a shit writer.
>>>>20254489
>>20254489
>>20254873
>irrtrt
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)09:54:36 No.20253219▶
>>20252862 (OP) (OP)
Why did you post a picture of a convicted child molester. What kind of romances are you writing?
>>
Anonymous 04/21/22(Thu)09:55:15 No.20253220▶
>>20253180
This.

>>20251828
I thought many of the side characters were compelling, but Catherine gets most of the focus for like the first 3 or so books. Which works out since she's probably the best character in the serial.

>>20252189
The Red Sonja series by Richard Tierney and David Smith takes place during the Hyborian Age.
>>20252292
Great stuff anon. Just finished Night Winds and it was excellent.

>>20254189
The issue with Bastion is the first book is largely a long-winded set-up for what seems like a relatively interesting story after. If you had two whole damn books of just that, it'd be upsetting. It could have been trimmed down a lot though, yeah.

>>20254204
I'm still a little baffled Iron Prince was so liked. It just felt low-quality with how many typos and character name mix-ups that I kept noticing, not to mention how... Kinda utterly banal the progression actually is if progression is the 'point', as he just kinda gets stronger I guess okay, and there's not really an interesting story going on beyond that.

>tfw you're the one who introduced Kane/Wagner to this general
How based am I?

>>20255033
7

>>20255036
7 out of 7

>>20255026
It's progression fantasy. It's all trash. Iron Prince didn't have to be good, just better than its competitors. And since it was, fans of those types of stories really enjoyed it.

>>20255044
It wasn't even better than its competitors. I've read some of the competitors, and they were generally pretty solid. Iron Prince just had utterly nothing characters, the progression is incredibly boring (he never really... Changes anything, he just kind of does the exact same thing for 95% of the book) and the plot... Isn't really a thing. I think people just wanted a sci-fi progression thing and it's the most competently written or something but that's sad if so.

>>20255050
I've no clue what you are talking about. All of those flaws you listed are present in nearly every single progression fantasy series. The entire subgenre is absolute garbage.

>>20255060
Maybe I'm just basing it on Cradle actually being quite good and that might actually be the exception because Cradle changes things up, the characters are fun, the progression is basically just "alongside things" instead of the boring focus.

>>20255065
>Cradle
Cradle is garbage as well.

>>20255065
Yes. I was actually going to mention Cradle as pretty much the only exception that's written in the West. I still wouldn't call it a "good" series but it's certainly far better than any other western progression fantasy.

>>20255069
I think it's good, it doesn't aspire to be more than "basically a shonen anime" and it executes itself pretty competently. Its cast is pretty memorable and solid, and I've yet to find much else in the subgenre that really stacks up. Bastion COULD be interesting but it's only one book in so I'm reserving too much judgment (it's better than Iron Prince at least so far).

New thread
>>20255127

New thread
>>20255182

>>20255183
You guys can’t keep being on-topic can’t you.

Let's try this again
new thread
>>20255259

>>20255260
nigga it's getting deleted because we're only on page 5
wait until it's at 9 at least

>>20255276
It’s getting deleted due to the off-topic and low effort replies. The first one >>20255128 was just some fag saying first and the basedjack spammer. Second one was already veering off-topic due to the politics.

>>20255285
I keep seeing some fag mentioning politics, why is he bringing that shot here. That’s off-topic.

>>20255299
If it's off topic, it shouldn't be in the OP.

>>20255302
It's not. stop bringing it up.

>>20255304
I literally is, this is all in the recommended reading link in the OP's.
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ

>>20255299
Ah, I can see why now, dumb faggot just can't keep quiet.

>>20255309
I like how you just don't go to the folder that says science fiction and fantasy but instead go to a different one that doesn't pertain to this general.

>>20255309
If true then it's obv retarded but why aren't all sffg threads being deleted then

>>20255319
Because it's obvious that people go to the science fiction and fantasy section

>>20255323
So a non-fucking issue. What’s the problem. Why is that fag bringing up politics.

>>20255317
The SFFG recs are fucking abysmal, which is why I was saying that link should just be removed. The largest category of recommendations for SFFG content is WH40k tripe, and that's barely SFFG related to begin with.

Either put together some decent charts that aren't from 2002 or just ditch the link entirely.

>>20255328
Nice opinion, now fuck off.

>>20255335
Do you actually think this chart is useful for recommendations in any way?

>>20255328
>WH40k tripe, and that's barely SFFG related to begin with
WH40k is science fiction, I'm already disregarding your opinion as being a whiny bitch.

>>20255340
I don't understand, the recommendations are good,

>>20255340
Another good chart, it's almost as if you're just nitpicking at this point.

>>20255340
Kek, nice for you to go to the first picture and not look around the other 62 images.

>>20255347
>>20255343
>>20255348
Can anyone even tell me what Dungeon Synth is even meant to mean?

>>20255350
>Name is obvious, every books has a dungeon in it
>Can’t figure it out.
I see, I finally understand the issue.

>>20255350
I'm going to stop replying to you since its obvious you're bitching for the sake of bitching at this point.

>>20255350
Well it's a music subgenre, so it doesn't mean anything. Making a chart like that is a very 4chan thing to do, like "books for this feel?" type thing. I think dungeon synth is electronic music inspired by video game soundtracks that take place in dungeons or fantasy settings generally (yeah I know I could google it, not going to).

>>20255443
He's just complaining to complain at this point/

New thread
>>20255568

>>20255285
Pretty sure its getting deleted due to the thread still being useable, mods have been pruning the Writes on your mind threads as well.

>>20255579
>mods have been pruning the Writes on your mind threads as well.
Pretty sure they delete them due to them being made early, but Yeah, I agree, no need to make a new thread until page 8 or 9.

>>20255571
>Mods deleting was more reasonable since it was just the bakkerfag doing his faggot things again.

Final new thread
>>20255632

>>20255633
And of course, low effort posts.

>>20255335
>t. one of those weird normalfags that only read one or two big series ever