/lit/ - Literature

https://controlc.com/f330b134
How do you write wh40k stuff if you're concerned about not breaking lore stuff?

Got shortlisted for a national poetry contest the other week. Found out today that I didn’t win :(

>>20238462

No furry, but I think it’s sick that the stupid cartoon bunny was deleted but not the previous dude with a gun to his head. Violence isn’t anymore work safe than “sexual imagery”

>>20238465
Thanks, anon.

>>20238462
Post poem, nerd.

>>20238455
The first thing I do when writing fan fiction is to look for a version of the source material I can Ctrl+F. If it's for a book, that means converting it to plain text. If it's for a video game that means finding or creating a text dump. If it's for a movie, I download the subtitles and look for the script.
In a pinch a wiki might work, but I dislike the editorialism and prefer the immediacy of a full text search. Ideally it takes two seconds to find the bare truth.
For WH40K it's more difficult, but maybe you can manage something.
There is such a thing as being too anal about lore. Breaking with canon is regrettable, but not ruinous. Sometimes it's even worth doing deliberately.
At the same time, don't neglect fuzzier aspects. I spend just as much time nitpicking canon as checking to see if I've got characters' voices right.

>>20238478
George Carlin had a classic bit on that:
https://youtu.be/qNLOXJw0aUU?t=120

>>20238462
Unlucky, anon.
Getting shortlisted is still quite an achievement.

>>20238478
I think the fact that it was a bunny weighed just as heavily as the sexualization. This website has a thing about that.

>>20238462
Shortlisting is still an impressive accomplishment!

>another 1.2k done
I keep thinking i'm close to closing out the arc then i remember i have another pov and plot point to add.

Thoughts?

"What most men don't understand is that putting a cock up your ass has the same feeling as shitting. If you don't believe me you're free to ride on a cock and see it for yourself. And sucking dick? Well, suck one of your fingers and the feeling will be pretty damn close. Where I am getting at? It should be obvious. You probably had some logs passing through your butthole that were longer and girthier than most dick around. So, if somehow you end up in jail and a big dude is coming up to you just pretend you're shitting. After all, you lost your anal virginity a long time ago."
And then I woke up. Those nightmares were getting weirder and longer since I started taking antidepressants. But what could I do, my life was getting nowhere with a dead-end job and no social life of notice.

>>20238696
Why does everyone feel the need to be so crude, just add a little nuance to it for fuck's sake

>>20238556
>>20238552
Much appreciated. It's definitely going on my CV.
>>20238537
I would, but I don't wanna dox myself, b.

>>20238696
epic for the win

>>20238721
It’s my style cousin. Some people dig it.

>>20238755
That "style" is overdone and banal.

You guys building your audience and news letters yet?
Just getting started anons.

Anyone willing to give feedback? Please be unwavering and as harsh as possible in your criticisms, thanks.

https://pastebin.com/tLxCnuZk

the sun doesnt sleep, no more
honeyed chumps, choked or
drowned; bathed in basin
bare, a travelling salesman -
little Lucy: danced, squared, and
downed.

Flesh echo, so dear, forgotten
in blue, Turn Back Time and
MEMORIZE; touch, taste
the night dancer - no haste -
in barren, cold, dark, Lucy
dies.

The clouds dont exist, no more
blue stars, stock in store, or
return - chumps cheer. He wept -
congregation: dear child, the best
for poor moon, left lonely, and Lucy to
burn

>>20238818
First paragraph offers very little clarity, also pic related:
>Macabre miasma
>A cursed concerto, accompanied by a choir of retching babes, a distant hum of biplanes, and a soft patter of rain.

Read: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0060%3Abook%3D3

>>20238806
Nope, just writing

A horror serial, “Whispers from Hell”
>Though it seems strange to say, the four years in prison which inaugurated my manhood now appear to me as my happiest days as a man, for it is with their conclusion that my world begin to descend into a hellish madness unfathomable in my unholiest nightmares. So forgive me if I dwell briefly upon my incarcerated existence that I may have some meager reprieve from recalling the horror which followed my release.

http://noahdunavant.com/2022/04/13/whispers-from-hell-chapter-one/

A serialized, literary screwball comedy, “The Fortunes and Affairs of Benedick Gascogne”
> Louis saw to it that his son had all the upbringing of a proper gentleman, or as much of it as could be obtained in America. Besides an exemplary classical education, Benedick was given a rigorous regimen of swimming, riding, shooting, hunting, and dancing. Of all that he was taught he excelled in, but nothing pleased him so much as fencing: he was so enamored with it that the proscription against living by the sword in the Gospel he took for a mandate, perhaps the sum of the Gospel itself. Louis cultivated his son’s passion and ultimately obtained private lessons for him with the famous Maestro di Vino, who brought the boy to a startling dominance in the sport.

Second and third chapters
http://noahdunavant.com/2022/04/09/benedick-gascogne-chapter-2/

http://noahdunavant.com/2022/04/10/benedick-gasconge-chapter-3/

“Love Letter from a Suicide Bomber”, a short story about a terrorist writing his love before he dies

>In this, if Allah wills, my final hour in this world, I find my thoughts your constant prisoner once again as if we were still newlyweds.

http://noahdunavant.com/2022/03/20/love-letter-from-a-suicide-bomber/

>>20238795
>banal
>anal
I see what you did there and laughed heartily :D

>>20238845
It's not that purposefully purple; I just have a thing for alliteration I swear!
:^)

>>20238795
Hey smart fella, why don’tcha grace us with some not overdone and banal prose sourcing straight from your, I bet, sweet sweet head?

>>20238832
huh?

>>20238898
I'm huge on alliteration (I'm tongue side preference/loose alliteration anon if you were around for that convo) but I'm afraid I read on and the purple diagnosis is final.

Don't get me wrong, you have a talent for simile/thematic prose but you're very raw in expressing it (overly poetic as that Aristotle piece describes), losing clarity which is king in prose.

>>20238869
Substack is writing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UoEbfz3BlmlvT1he2ZJtglccvBVfK0WwB_wtUM83NBs/edit?usp=sharing

(Paradisio - Current placeholder title)

Happy Sunday friends.

>>20238993
>tongue side preference/loose alliteration
I wasn't around for such a conversation, but it sounds quite interesting. I've always been fascinated by how certain words combinations sound so much better than others. Or how certain phrases will roll off the tongue, or be stunted based on how individual, choice words are placed in sentence. Have you studied much linguistics? More specifically the oral anatomy of phonetic consonants, vowels, etc. and how those influence the aesthetics of phrases? Take for instance the two parses:

>warm whispers
vs
>warmed whispers

While both are alliterative, the phrase "warm whispers" sounds better (at least to me) than the other because the ending phonetic sound of warm—the 'mm' sound— has the same lip and tongue placement as the next proceeding phonetic sound—the 'whi' sound. While the "de" sound finds the lips apart, and tongue pressed behind the teeth—thus, slightly more harsh and disjunctive. Hell, even

>harsh and disjunctive
Sounds better than the converse
>disjunctive and harsh

for similar reasons. It's far easier for the mouth to transition between 'sh' and the 'a' sound, than between 'vv' and 'a'. I'd use the phonetic alphabet to better illustrate my point but that's way too many alt-codes, and I feel like by now you get my point. Shit's fascinating.

Feeling the urge to write for the first time in months but my old ideas aren't organized enough. Give me something fun to try, it can be schlocky/anime/self-indulgent/etc idc. The more autistic and less pseudy it is the more likely I am to do anything.

>>20239536
Are you asking for us... to post our novel ideas?

What are some ways to bring across a culture of desperation, hopelessness and impending doom in a fictional culture?

>>20239579
A mainstream press that relentlessly provides the impression that things are hopeless, solely to drum up their flagging ratings?
Focused on the survival of their business model, they never see they're causing the catastrophes they're supposedly reporting.

>>20239574
Sure, if you don't mind a rando doing it very differently (and probably slightly worse) for practice.

>>20238696
Writing filthy faggotry doesn't make you mature and it definitely won't make you successful

>>20238818
You should put more internal thoughts of the narrator and less blatant descriptions of whats happening

>>20239607
Made you hot-headed the fact that you're no better than a random fag when you're shitting and feeling the same sensations he feels when he sits on cock? lmao

>>20239536
Here's a short story idea: someone buys silver bullets to kill a werewolf, the salesman guarantees they're silver, and later, when confronting the werewolf, the shooter recognizes the clothes and realizes it's the salesman, and thus the bullets aren't real silver.

>>20239648
So is Yoda now trolling on 4chan?

>>20239648
Anon we should used to make jokes about that in middle school. There's really nothing profound or original about what you wrote. It's just filthy faggotry thats cringeworthy to write as an adult.

>>20239651
Maybe once I finish my novella about if cows invented tools and one of them kinda looked like a saw but the rest of them didn't.

>>20239536
I was saving this idea for my next novel but go ahead.

A man who lives alone one night decides to try to suck his cock but something goes wrong with his back while trying to do it and he becomes paralysed. The story then shows his thoughts while desperately trying to move again and get help, which he ultimately can't do it and then die of dehydration after ten days stuck.

>>20239579
have society very clearly stratified. the rich living right next to the completely destitute
never ending holidays where the well off engage in conspicuous waste
casual drug use/prostitution
people not getting married. premarital sex/flings are common as is abortion. have an alchemist or witch produce concoctions to do this
everyone having a got mine fuck everyone else attitude
mercenaries/clear outsiders acting as para police forces

>>20239657
>There's really nothing profound
The fact that we're all taking cock each time we shit is profound.
>or original
Post 5 excerpts of books having a smiliar paragraph.

>>20239691
There is no one so pointlessly stupid on this planet aside from you, so finding a book with any similarity is a zero chance probability.

>>20239709
>says there is nothing original in what I wrote
>can't post simple 5 excerpts from books with similar paragraphs
Laughable.

>>20239691
>middle school humor is profound
I guess we all operate at our own level.

>>20239743
Why can't middle school humor be profound? Show me two examples of "profound" humour please.

>>20239374
I'm not super educated on linguistics but I was reading The Wheel, The Horse, The Language and the second chapter talks about basically the ideas you're bringing up - specifically that transitioning from sounds made at the back to front of the mouth (and vice verse) is challenging for our tongues and the source of a lot of errors while speaking and linguistic drift over time.

Phonetics gets really complicated fast and there are a lot of other categories of sounds we make (plotives vs nasals, etc.) but the quick & dirty rule I use based on that idea I just call "loose alliteration" where I divide consonants into front mouth (t,n,p,d, b, etc.) vs back mouth (g, m, l, k, etc.) sounds. I consider words starting in vowels to be neutral. I just try to use it as is reasonable with the plot/characters as clarity and character always comes first.

To your point about V -> A transition though I probably should take vowels into account, but I just like the simplicity of my current system and like what it's done for me so I bring it up sometimes in case others get anything out of it too.

>harsh and disjunctive - Sounds better than the converse
Agree and I think it's the "J" transition as you say, some words have exceptionally strongly pronounced mid-word consonants that need to be considered almost as two words in one for flow purposes.

>>20238818
The vibe I get from your narrator, is soemone writing down what happened later, as opposed to it actually happening in real time. If that's what you were going for, then cool, but if not, then I would definitely take more time to discuss the author's feelings about what's going on.

he had to claw at a dead pregnant woman. does that make him feel bad? disgusted? afraid? horrified, who is this person?
And if the idea s that he doesn;t know himself, maybe give some clues in his actions that inform the reader of who he is.

As it stands, it just seems overly descriptive, without actually describing anything, and far too rote and mechanical to get a feel for the protagonist.

But, I do see some value and talent, just needs some refinement.

>>20239678
That's more decadence than an otherwise functional society staring down the barrel of an apocalypse desu.

>>20239659
You broke the code! LOL

>>20239678
So, nearly every cyberpunk novel in existence.

>>20239675
So, an ersatz version of "Gerald's Game" by Stephen King?

>>20239579
what kind of doom is impending?

Is it a slow one that is killing the land?

A sudden one?

natural or nonnatural?

inside or outside force?

Is it just one civiliation inside the world or the whole world?

>>20239782
"The Sirens Of Titan" by Kurt Vonnegut
"Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" by Douglas Adams

>>2023994
why is it an ersatz version?

I added 6,800 words to my novel's first draft this weekend!
I'm still nowhere near the end...I estimate another 15k-20k, giving me plenty of space to ruthlessly eliminate anything that's not working.

Previously posted excerpt: >>20203829

Is this any good?
>It looked to the skies, grinning at the stars above. Soon, the world would dance and dance and dance, praying to their magnificence eternally, wrapped in ugly chunks of flesh that would be illuminated for all to see in the brilliance of those millions of stars.
>At least, that was what it thought. That is until something burst out of the water in front of it and sliced off part of it's shoulder with a sound that could only be described as hate.

>>20239966
Because yours is a masturbatory version of "Gerald's Game".
Do you really think autofellatio can fill the void left by a missing married-couple dynamic?

>>20239947
>memegut and hitchhiker's guide to the basedlaxy
>profound
>can't even post excerpts of the profound humor in those books

>>20239984
I'm not really sure what the first sentence is trying to say.
whose magnificence? the stars? what do the ugly chunks of flesh mean?

>>20240004
Surreal horror is a hard thing to do, isn't it?

>>20239990
In gerald's game a woman is handcuffed to a bed and then her husband dies and then she escapes.
In my idea a man becomes paralysed after trying to suck his dick and then dies.
Do you see the diference?

>>20240010
I wouldn't know, but I'm saying that as an excerpt, those 2 lines don't make a lot of sense.

What does
>their magnificence
refer to? The stars? or the character?
do ugly chunks of flesh refer to humans?
I need more information.

>>20239994
If you're not familiar with either of those books, enough to answer your own question...then you can see yourself out.

>>20240028
he should survive and have to explain to the cops how he had to drink his own piss and cum for sustenance

>>20240028
Yes, but not one you'll find complimentary.

>>20240037
I'm familiar with those books and authors and they're shit. The hitchhiker s.o.y specifically is lke reddit itself in a book. I want you to post what are the good profound humour you thought you found out in those books. If you can't do that I'll accept your concession and think that you didn't even finish or even read those books.

>>20240028
dude, not that anon, but your idea is literally a worse version of Gerald's Game. So, unless you have a meaningful message, which, considering it's about a guy sucking his own dick I doubt, then you would be much better off abandoning that idea.

>>20240040
>after the bloodtest results
>'strangely your protein levels were all very good, do you know why of it?'
>'uh... n-no doc!'

>>20240035
Yeah, that makes sense. Context is that there's this weird thingamajig that has no idea why anyone is doing anything besides worshipping the stars

>>20240048
>your idea is literally a worse version of Gerald's Game
Why? And you must be a really thick fuck if you think the plot is the only thing that matters in fiction. Is like saying that Ulysses is shit when compared to Odyssey because it's just about a guy traveling throughout Dublin instead of a guy traveling throughout many mystical places of Greece.

>>20240075
Er, yeah...Odysseus and Ulysses are EXACTLY what I thought of when I read your plot summary.
Take the L, dude.

>>20240075
Right, hence why I said that unless you have a meaningful message, you should quit.

IF you have an angle, or a message, or something of value NOT explored in Gerald's Game, then you should, by all accounts, write it.

However, dealing with the limited premise, you will have difficulty in trying to do that, because how different can you REALLY make the story? Really.

And, I doubt your ability to do so, seeing as how the start of your book is a guy trying to suck his own dick. That's crude and base, so unless you have a REALLY good, nuanced, impactful message behind that, to elevate or contrast the ridiculousness of the inciting incident, then don't bother, and choose something else to write about.

>>20240087
>fortnite slang
oh no no no

>halfway through the month
>28324 words written
all of it complete shit but i am still proud asf

>>20240064
So there's people worshiping the stars already?
Then why does the thing grin looking up at them?
Why is he saying SOON they will dance and dance and dance and pray to their magnificence, when it seems like they already are?

>>20240100
Good, my dude. You should be proud.
It's a first draft. The first draft is you telling yourself the story. fixes can come later.

Good job, anon.

>>20240100
Meh. It's a first draft.
It's important to produce something you can edit.
I find editing and rewriting to be a LOT easier than the first draft.
So be proud of your accomplishment!

>>20240094
>unless you have a meaningful message, you should quit
I have one.
>IF you have an angle, or a message, or something of value NOT explored in Gerald's Game
I have.
>because how different can you REALLY make the story?
For starters, the main character is a man, isn't handcuffed, doesn't magically escape, wasn't raped by his father, isn't married, doesn't see monsters in the room
>And, I doubt your ability to do so
I doubt your ability as a writer too. As the old saying goes, those who can write write, those who can't become critics of other writers.
>how the start of your book is a guy trying to suck his own dick
As opposed to the start of Gerald's play where a husband handcuffs his wife and start doing rape roleplay with her right? That's not crude and base.
>so unless you have a REALLY good, nuanced, impactful message behind that, to elevate or contrast the ridiculousness of the inciting incident
I have.

As many of you will probably have experienced, there are a series of tiers or barriers that you eventually come to break through each time you realise it's time to stop fucking around and "take this thing seriously" or however you frame it to yourself. It's a good thing, and, if you are actually taking it seriously, each time you have the realisation you will ascend to the next level and find how much more you could have been doing - rather than sort of being lazy after the epiphany and going in circles and having the same realisation again and again.

But whatever. More recently I finally had a story of mine published in reputable quarterly, it is basically the greatest achievement of my life and I don't care how small it is because I'm all in on this thing. So I took some time, enjoyed the after glow, continued working on the story I was (derivative, boring shit I've always done) and I kind of realised that now along with a strict reading and writing schedule, dedication, motivation to review, re-write and edit etc. I need to broaden the scope of my work.

This is where I might differ from the experience of a lot of /wg/ I know there are a lot of fantasy and adventure stories on the go here, so you will know more than I do in this space. Basically, I have always been a bit of a /lit/core fag in that a lot of the shit that really interested me were the very typical Joyce and Gass stories that have to do with the mundane, unexcited, melancholy or stream of experience and what is to be a human and what do humans do and blah blah. Quite dry and boring. And although I have had success with this sort of writing myself, I think I have kind of come to the limit of what that can produce for me - I find that I am writing the same story again and again and what's now necessary is a story, or some kind of adventure that my themes need to attach themselves to. I'm still a /lit/core fag at heart so I have recently begun reading a lot of Joseph McElory which can be pretty weird and wonderful even in the way that some of Pynchon's stuff can be - Pynchon for example I remember sort of frowning at the idea that V had to do with a sort of spy story, mystery, intrigue etc. as I had kind of associated any sort of adventure with pulpy attitudes.

Anyway. What I want to do now is deliberately challenge myself to move into different spheres of story telling that occur outside work places, homes, kitchens, bedrooms, and in deep spiralling paragraphs of thought and reflection. So what is your advice for writing adventure and different sort of tales into a story, as when I try to begin I can't even imagine where the fuck to start.

>>20240104
That's what it wants at least. IT worships the stars, and it's confused as to why it's the only one that really does

>>20240047
Oh, aren't you precious. Next you'll be telling me your dad can beat up my dad.
I've read HHGTTG and Vonnegut so much, I practically had them memorized at one point.
The story behind the infinite improbability drive was a fun bit of hyperphysics.
The botique-planet business of Magrathea was well thought out and deep.
And who could forget the animal in the restaurant that was bred to want to be eaten? Talk about dark satire!
I could go on.
As for Sirens Of Titan...the story of the little explorer bot, sent hurling across space and time, only to deliver a message of "Greetings" without any context, I found especially poignant. I've had jobs like that.

>>20240097
Oooh, good comeback. I feel so moded.
(Yes, I can do '80s slang too.)

>>20240129
So you want to move from literary fiction DOWN to genre fiction? Fascinating.
I'm striving to move the other direction, but it seems so daunting.

>>20240165
No, not down. I was wrong when I thought that anything with a fantastic feel or any kind of adventure relegates a piece of work to genre fiction. Even something that is still firmly grounded in reality but like Heart of Darkness for example - these is a clear sense of adventure, trials, danger. That's what I struggle with. Or everyone on /lit/ loves Blood Meridian for example which is a huge bleak adventure. That's more what I'm getting at.

>>20240128
It's good that you have a message unexplored in Gerald's Game, because you NEED one.

You do not have the benefit of a wholly original idea. Stephen King did. Sure, all stories have been written, etc etc, but your story can be instantly paralleled to Gerald's Game, it already is. So your story, unfortunately, has the additional hurdle of having to distinguish itself in some way, by an already popular similar story. That is a fact.

Now, boil Gerald game down to its basic components, without specifics.
>A person is trapped alone after a sexual act gone wrong.
That applies both to your story and Gerald's game.
The rest:
>Background of the character being trapped
>The manner of being trapped
>which specific sexual act led to the trapping
Is all flavor. They can be changed a million different ways, but the core, basic plot outline remains unchanged.

So, your story is VERY similar to Gerald's Game. No two ways about it. It's best to accept that.
Now, IF, and only IF your message and moral and other stuff is good enough for you to want to whether the criticism levied at it, in this thread and beyond, then you SHOULD write it. If it isn't, then move on, think of something else.

>I doubt your ability as a writer too. As the old saying goes, those who can write write, those who can't become critics of other writers.
And that's ad hominem, my dude. You should avoid logical fallacies as a writer.

>As opposed to the start of Gerald's play where a husband handcuffs his wife and start doing rape roleplay with her right? That's not crude and base.
I didn't say it wasn't. That's the problem. Youy literally, just now, compared your work to Gerald's Game. But, again, Stephen king had the luxury of going first. He gets to be crude, and I'd say his message does overcome the base crudeness of the setup.

>>20240188
Ah.
Then my first suggestion is becoming familiar with what they call "narrative drive".
That's maintaining the feeling that something is about to happen.
I don't think it's a significant component of literary fiction, but it's essential for adventure.

I would also suggest having meaningful reasons for plot advancement, instead of random chance or, God forbid, plot convenience.
Consider "The Mandalorian" to be the OPPOSITE of what you want to achieve.
I mean, how many times can he inexplicably appear behind the person looking for him? Ugh.

If you're not already familiar with them, Ian Fleming's "James Bond" novels might be a good place to start.
They embody the characteristics I describe above, plus many more.

I'd go on, but I'm very sleepy & need to crash.

>>20239263
Got to the top of page 31.
p. 19: "culmination, aggregation, whatever you’d call it". Apotheosis?
p. 23: For the record, there's a demonic character in the Netflix show "Disenchantment" named Luci.
p. 26: So can people escape Hell via a second death, or not? I think I've seen both claimed at this point.

And an overall comment...
Your Hell is a civilization that looks much like Earth. Why not try to do something a little deeper? Imagine a civilization that has lasted a LOT longer than Earth's, and what implications that timeframe would have. I'm not saying you have to do this...I just think it'd add gravitas.

>>20240139
Okay, I see.

Well, then, friend, i don't like those 2 sentences very much..

>It looked to the skies, grinning at the stars above.
I think Grinning at the stars above is too human. Maybe make it more monstrous/wierd if it's a creature's thoughts.

>Soon, the world would dance and dance and dance, praying to their magnificence eternally, wrapped in ugly chunks of flesh that would be illuminated for all to see in the brilliance of those millions of stars.

I think this sentence is still very unclear. Maybe saying that the ugly chunks of flesh would dance would be better.

>That is until something burst out of the water in front of it and sliced off part of it's shoulder with a sound that could only be described as hate.

Be more descriptive.
A monstrous form burst out of the water in front of (the protagonist), and with a sound of pure, unmistakable hatred, sliced of part of it's shouder.

Or something, Not saying mine is better, just how I'd approach it.

So:

Be more clear, and be more descriptive.

Good luck, anon.

>>20240221
>you NEED one.
I have one.
>You do not have the benefit of a wholly original idea. Stephen King did.
A comment like this only shows your absolute lack of knowledge, as Stephen King's "wholly original idea" was basically stolen from a Richard Laymon short story (the tub) which was written almost a decade before gerald's game.
>So your story, unfortunately, has the additional hurdle of having to distinguish itself in some way
It distinguish itself the same way gerald's game distinguish itself from the tub.
>A person is trapped alone after a sexual act gone wrong.
That's the plot of the tub. It's funny how your criticism can be made exactly to gerald's game isn't it?
>Now, IF, and only IF your message and moral and other stuff is good enough for you to want to whether the criticism levied at it, in this thread and beyond, then you SHOULD write it.
It is.
>And that's ad hominem, my dude. You should avoid logical fallacies as a writer.
That's not an ad hominen my dumb friend. That was a point I made and I did refute your argument.
>But, again, Stephen king had the luxury of going first.
Sadly you are mistaken and he wasn't the first. I'm pretty shocked that you didn't know that. It makes me kinda uneasy of even engaging in an argument with a person which seemingly lack basic knowledge of the subject being argued and actually thinks that SK was a first in anything.
>He gets to be crude
By your own logic he doesn't get it, as he wasn't the first.

>>20240129
>So what is your advice for writing adventure and different sort of tales into a story, as when I try to begin I can't even imagine where the fuck to start.
Unironically, read Treasure Island. It's every boy's dream fantasy adventure story and it still holds water today. It made me want to try writing adventure myself. There's something awfully wistful and exciting about exploring new worlds, being chased by danger, finding tangible items worth real money not some bullshit friendship is the real treasure trope, shooting guns, and swashbuckling.
After that, Journey to the Center of the Earth. Another fantastic classic.

>>20240285
lol wtf? did you ask for a critique and now you're mad you got one? if you post something here you can and will get literally a whole range of shit back to it. this is an anonymous board so your pride should not be a stake and you're supposed to be here in service to your work, so if you're writing faggy replies like this you're doing it wrong. drop a passage or a chapter and check back for any value and if you don't feel you got any move on dummy.

Can an anon rate this introductory passage for a story I wanted to write?
>Ulysse dreamt of war that night. Terrible and bloody slaughter, battle of unimaginable scale, and the everpresent flames of hatred burned the dreamscape of his sleeping mind. Admist the roiling sea of gnashing, cutting, bludgeoning, and piercing bodies fought a figure of power so great and enmity so strong that its visage shot pain into the writhing body of the sleeping lad. The figure bore a spear of burning light which it used to slay scores of combatants with each stroke and wore armor of intense, incinerating flame. Ulysse could not sense his own body within the dream and he floated incorporeally above the nameless plain. Though he was wracked with fearsome pain and terror from the malignant influence of the dream and the horrible presence of the enlightened warrior figure, Ulysse nonetheless thought himself safe from the orgy of violence below - bodiless as he was. That feeling was scourged from his mind by the whip of terror when the spear-wielder ahead suddenly turned to face the him that was not, steam billowing from his spear and armor where buckets of blood had splashed onto them from his countless slain prey. Horror gripped Ulysse then as the presence pointed a searing finger at him and then adjusted its hold on the spear of light to hold it as a javelin. It then drew back its powerful arm and with a thundering run it threw the spear, a shard of the blinding Sun itself, fast and true to where he haplessly hovered.
Ulysse woke with a start. He was panting, gasping for air as if he had truly just encountered Death itself. Sweat drenched his body and he felt the lingering of an all too real pain. He let his eyes adjust to the dark space as he caught his breath and calmed his nerves. It was not the terrifying warground of his dream, but his small room within his home. Relief washed over him; this was not a place of pain and hatred. He sighed, though as conscious thought returned to him, he wondered with worry if this was not a prophetic dream. War had come to the land with the invasion by the Dardalles, and already there had been numerous bloody battles fought. Ulysse dared not think, however, that it was a portent of slaughter to come to Tathy, his home. He moreso dared not accept his own place in the dream. Was he to become some killer of mortals, a devourer of souls, or was he to be among the butchered, his own blood steaming off of a spear of light? He could not think of this any further, and he could not fall back asleep either. So Ulysse raised himself from his bed, grabbed his sword, and quietly crept out of the house into the early morning dark.

>>20239946
This is for a sci fi story. Basically the giant machines that keep everyone alive are shutting down, and the only replacements for them are already the objective of a massive three way war. Things are desperate enough to where the people are turning on one of their best allies in the war and are turning into a 4 way brawl in order to secure these machines. If not they're staring down the barrel of extinction within a single generation.

>>20240303
My dumb friend, you're doing a critique basing it on the argument that Stephen King was the first person who wrote a story about a person being trapped alone after a sexual act gone wrong. Let that sink in.
I know you probably have a two digit IQ or some kind of intellectual disability, but try to comprehend that if you don't know shit about the subject you're arguing you simply can't make up stuff which is factually wrong. I absolutely think you can't write or criticize other writers because you suffer from a lack of mental capacity.

>>20240311
Okay great so you have a vocabulary it doesn't mean you need to shit the whole thing down our throats in the opening paragraph... not to mention you're describing a dream. Even in the best novels, readers glaze over dream scenes and need to call themselves back to them - because they mean fuck all except to spell out some gay prophecy which will end up coming to pass in the story anyway. So no one is going to care.

Do yourself a favour. Go to your bookcase right now and pick up your three favourite novels, preferably in the same theme of what you're writing here, and read through the first page of each of them. You will notice that it starts slow because it has the confidence to do so, the stories are very self-assured and will be delivering themselves to you at their pace. They aren't overloaded swaths of words and description trying hard to dazzle the reader.

>>20240285
>A comment like this only shows your absolute lack of knowledge, as Stephen King's "wholly original idea" was basically stolen from a Richard Laymon short story (the tub) which was written almost a decade before gerald's game.
Fair point. But Gerald's Game is the more well-known. Hence, the majority of the critisicm of similarity Has been and will continue to be levied at it, rather than The Tub.

>It distinguish itself the same way gerald's game distinguish itself from the tub.
No, you need to distinguish yourself in a different way to both Gerald's Game and The Tub

>That's not an ad hominen my dumb friend. That was a point I made and I did refute your argument.
It was ad hominem, You didn't attack my point, but my character.

>Sadly you are mistaken and he wasn't the first. I'm pretty shocked that you didn't know that. It makes me kinda uneasy of even engaging in an argument with a person which seemingly lack basic knowledge of the subject being argued and actually thinks that SK was a first in anything.
I'm not arguing with you. I'm giving you advice. But even still, that is also ad hominem, my dude. "Oh you don't know X? That makes you an idiot and i should disregard your points."

>By your own logic he doesn't get it, as he wasn't the first.
So that should make you MORE eager to differentiate yourself. My point is compunded even further because you aren't the first, nor the second, but the third. And honestly, probably the 8th or 9th, because I'm sure there's a similar story or stories published before the tub.

So, IF you think you have something worthwhile to add to the 'genre' of sexual act gone bad trapped something stories, then don't write it.

But if you do, Then stop arguing with random fags like me on 4chan and write it.

>>20240338
I'm not even the cunt critiquing you I didn't bother to read your whole faggy exchange either and you're probably right about the Stephen King thing idgaf I'm saying there's no need to be triggered if someone thinks your work is shit cause btw it probably is and that's okay and even if it's not people will think it is anyway so this cunt here is just one of those folks.

>>20240340
Thanks anon. I appreciate it. Though this was just a rough rough draft i wrote on my phone. I guess i need to reed moar

>>20240322
Okay, then try to bake in the desperation hopelessness into character interactions, and descriptions.

if Character A is mistrustful, then when he's talking to someone, have them shift and fidget.
If Character B is hopeless and resigned to be, make them passive and uncaring, etc.

When you describe landscapes that are fucked up, describe their beauty in one sentence, then their corruption in the next as a kind of refutation of that beauty.

This is all very vague, and may not be super helpful, but I hope it gives you a baseline of how to start.

>>20240367
>I guess i need to reed moar
this will always be true and you should absolutely spend a lot of time on it

>>20240351
>there's no need to be triggered if someone thinks your work is shit
But you see, I didn't post any of my work here, only the plot I came up with (guy tries to suck his dick, becomes paralysed and dies of dehydration ten days later). But some guy said that the plot is a copy of a Stephen King book and that he was the first to write stories like this. I'm ok with good critique, but is false critique and factually wrong as I proved. Stephen King wasn't the first person to write stories about sexual acts going wrong and the person becoming trapped by it. I'm on the right here.

>>20240367
>>20240376
also try not to get in that habit... writing flowery shit in the spur of the moment and running straight to critique threads for validation. Not only does it shit up the threads with a bunch of nonsense no offence my friend but more importantly it dilutes your sense of motivation which should really be contained totally within yourself and the work itself and your attempt to make and create and polish something - which at that point you will be proud enough NOT to want to share it here as you will be afraid someone will plagiarise it (however it will still be shit so they won't but it's good to have pride in your work).

>>20240311
Think fo how your dreams are.
Fragmented and confusing. And parts are forgotten on waking up. Don't get too descriptive. Get more metaphorical.

>>20240350
excuse me
>So, IF you think you have something worthwhile to add to the 'genre' of sexual act gone bad trapped something stories, then don't write it.
should be
>So, IF you DON'T think you have something worthwhile to add to the 'genre' of sexual act gone bad trapped something stories, then don't write it.

>>20240298
Thanks anon great advice

>>20240390
Good advice. Do you the second portion is better written, for not being a dream sequence?
>>20240389
Ive never posted my writing here before. I prefer not to shill though

>>20240404
I think it's perfectly serviceable as a first draft, spur of the moment intro. It does what it needs to do, albeit a little clunkily. But it's not bad.

Keep at it, anon.

>>20240230
1. Funny you mentioned that term, I've been saving it for something later. I wanted that line to read more like "stream of consciousness", in in actively sort of searching for the right word
2. Interesting, I've never heard of that!
3. They can, just not by means of aging. In fact some of the suicides/attrition rate is owed in part to the idea that many people aren't cut out for the idea of "forever".
4. I plan on introducing the reasons/history behind why Hell is similar to earth, and explaining some of its oddities rather soon. As for the civilization that has lasted a lot longer than Earth part, that's actually eerily reminiscent of one of the ideas I have for there to be a race of what amount to be "Natives".

I really appreciate your feedback,and it's nice to feel like someone is enjoying my prose! Thank you for sharing with me and thank you most of all for taking the time out of your day!

>>20238832
It's not horrid, but you've relied on too many cheap sonic properties for anyone to take its seriously. Also, obscure writing only works if done very well. This leaves too much unsaid.

>>20239536
>Long ago, the elves and dragons drove humanity out of their shared homelands in the east of the world after a human created dark magic, leading to a millennium of war and bitterness. This culminated in Truster, the Dragon King, being defeated and killed by humans; his only egg, the Dragon Prince, was lost in the attack. A few months later, the two princes of the kingdom of Katalina, Prince Ehoga and his older half-brother Prince Calci, and the sunspot elven assassin Retrey, who had been sent to kill them, discover the survival of the Dragon Prince. Together they set out to return him to Seelanta, forging an unlikely bond on their epic quest to bring peace and unity to their warring lands.

I just started writing. It has been something I've been wanting to do for a long time and I've had some good ideas for stories that I want to turn in to something tangible.

..It took me an hour to write a paragraph. The words I wanted to use simply couldn't come to mind and I had to go looking for them. Is this typical of new writers? Does it abate itself with time and experience?

>>20240511
Don't expect perfection.
You will not get it on a first draft.
A first draft is just that. a first draft.
So, Write what happens, not HOW it happens. Then, when you've completed your first chapter or act, or whatever breakpoint you want, THEN go back and say HOw it happened. Why it happened.

May not be great advice. But worth a shot, I feel.
The first draft is for getting the idea down. subsequent drafts are for getting it right.

>>20240531
How do you go about multiple drafts? I always hated doing them for college essays, though i seemed to do welp gradewise in spite of that. Do you edit in new passages into the present text, or do you completely rewrite the whole work?

r8?

A fart sound happens when your ass cheeks vibrate as the gas that was inside your guts escapes through your asshole into the ambient. I pretty much never particularly liked that sound. Actually, it bored me quite much. I think it was the whole musical factor, the almost horn or brass-like timbre that sometimes would incorporate the act.
It must've been at an early age when I decided to eliminate this faulty design of our earthly bodies. So I went hard on the studies and found myself going into med school in one of the most prestigious colleges of my country. Establishing the perfect human body, devoid of errors and mistakes was the goal which made everything bearable. Those sleepless nights, tremors and eye twitching spasms were diluted by the visions which I dreamed of.
After four years I had learned enough and it was time already for the test. I had stolen small quantities of local anesthesia from the college inventory during a period of three months so no one would notice. With my homemade operating room and all tools in my hand I decided on practicing on myself the first step into complete human apotheosis. Aplying the anesthesia into my butt cheeks, I picked up the surgery scalpel I had bought on ebay and proceed into cutting of the source of the fart sound. No more vibration, jokes and embarrassment. At that moment I was a sculptor transforming my own flash into art. As the blood poured into the ground and my flesh become detached from my body, tears of joy started flowing. It was erotic.

>>20240561
I'd say how is unimportant, and up to you. I prefer to do it as a new document, because I like to save older drafts, but might not be best for everyone.

As i said, NO ONE gets it perfectly right the first time it comes to page. The KingKiller Chronicle Author, Patrick Rothfuss or whatever his name is has the 3rd book written. But it's not ready to be released. And He's a big name author. just for some context.

School is different than writing for fun, anon.
You wanted to shit something out in order to pass, not have something to be proud of.
This is the opposite. I assume.
So, write what happens. It can be a draft, an outline, whatever, Then, Go back to it, and figure out how stuff connects.

>>20240573
Why define what a fart is? Everyone knows what one is. You can cut that part out, and just say that you've always hated farting. But do describe it musically, that's fun. Be more descriptive of it if you can. You should aim to find the perfect musical description of a fart, so that no one, may ever express it better than you.

Why "must have been" Just say it was from an early age. Too long winded badum tsss.

That whole 2nd 'paragraph' is told in the passive voice, and serves to undercut his singular goal and devotion to it. Rewrite it ina more active way.

I believe medical school is an 8 year investment. So unless this dude is the smartest man in the world, or hopelessly naive, then he will need more than 4 years to learn how to rewrite the human body. The passage about the anesthesia needs to betray more difficulty in how he stole it. What did he have to do? how secret must he have been?

Again, his tenactiy is undercut in your phrasing of the the operating room passage. Tell us more about the trials and tribulations of how it came to exist. i assume he's proud of it.

Why would he need to buy a scalpel on ebay if he can steal anesthesia?

4/10. do better.

>>20240573
This is honestly very difficult to read. The use of adverbs, words, timing, pacing, rhythm, and sentence structure caused me to reread a lot of sentences.

>>20240573
You're a tight little unit, aren't you?

Is this a good hook to start my story?

>The voyage took three weeks. Three weeks without a bath, a change of clothes, or fresh food. Seagulls cawed above, mocking the men huddled on and inside The Lord Eastaughffe. The ship’s crewmen brought the sails down while dockhands caught the ropes that would be used to tie the large wooden ship to the docks. Fresh sounds of vulgarity spread as men ushered each other to complete their jobs.

>“Move it already, ya damn coolies! Before we send y'all back to India wit’ dem tea sippers,” yelled out a stout burly man in white.

>The trading goods came out first. Large boxes of goods for trade from across the Pacific were hurriedly unloaded to the warehouses into the hands of impatient merchants tapping their feet for their lessers to finish. The sun shifted in the sky, and clouds hovered over San Francisco Bay. There was a brief pause. Contents inside the hold shuffled around waiting for their turn to leave the three-mast schooner.

>Waves bashed against the side of the boat rocked and creaked near the shoreline. Loud crashes echoed inside. The smell of sweat, piss, grime, vomit, shit, and smoke of opium, filled the gaps between. There were fifty of them, chattering amongst each other. Each speaking of their dreams, their ambitions, their jobs, and their new life. Many of them were orphans, unwanted children, the poor, widows, dreamers, criminals, refugees, and one was once a prestigious government official, losing his position after the British freed him from the might of the Qing. Long braided ponytails wrapped around their necks, a symbol of the conquered, a mark of the oppressed, and a reminder of their homeland.

>>20240658
>ya
>y'all
>wit'
>dem
I don't like this very much. It never made sense to me to render colloquial speech in proper grammar. It just doesn't fit. Colloquial speech should be given colloquial stylism.

>>20240603
>>20240573
How i would write the passage. Feel free to tell me how shit it is.

I have never particularly liked the sound of a fart. Truthfully, I found it quite boring. It was the musicallity, I think, that drove my dislike, the brass-like timbre of a horn incorporated into the whole banal act.

From an early age, my goal was to eliminate it from the human biology. Take away the faulty engineering, and create a more perfect vessel. It guided me through life, informed my studies, gave the the drive and fire to suffer through 8 years of the most rigorous and prestigious medical schools in my country. It was a bad time, a harsh time, but my goal: one of the perfect human body, free of blemish and mistake drove me forward. All those sleepness nights, where I was rocked by tremors of the body and mind, were made bearable, nay, necessary by the glorious vision I dreamt of every night.

Finally, the time had come. I had learned all there was to learn, and I was ready.

Through backroom deals, bribery, and more than one threat, I had secured myself a way to take all the supplies I needed from the campus. I had enough anesthesia to bring down an elephant, and more medical tools and sterilization agents than I knew what to do with. But I wasn't about to leave anything up to chance. Not now, not with my goal so tantalizingly close. With them, i had converted my bedroom into my very own operating room. No, it was more than that. It was an alter to perfection. And I had decided there would be no one more perfect, more deserving of said perfection, than myself.

With preparations done, the hour of metamorphosis had begun. No longer would I suffer the cruel and banal emberassment of a mis-timed flatulence. No longer, would I be rocked by the disgusting vibrado of bean burrito. WhenI injected myself with the anesthesia, and took the scalpel to my flesh, I was no longer a man. I was a veritable work of art. And as the blood soaked down my legs, I felt the most erotic joys of heaven and earth.

I was God.
Why did I do this?

>>20240603
jesus, cool effort-post bro
about the ebay thing, he's trying to steal the minimum so no one notices, that's why stealing anesthesia and buying the scalpel (easier to find and buy)

>>20240669
nicee, I would say in some parts it is a little bit too much, but it's good

>>20240669
Much better

>>20240682
Oh no, it's absolutely too much. But I was having fun.

But I was serious about the passive voice thing. You use passive voice on a passive character.
But this man, this visionary, is clearly an active character, and needs the active voice.
But, your ideas, as ridiculous as they are, are there. Just some refinement. My "rebuttal" was just fun. Don;t let me say it's betetr than yours. But, do take it into consideration. Use the antithesis to better your own writing.

Have fun and keep writing, mate.

>>20240688
And as for the defining thing, it is unnecessary MOST of the time.
Unless, of course, you want to portray your character as prideful and vain, and who looks down upon everyone else as stupid. Which, would fit this protagonist I feel.

>>20240658
>Three weeks without a bath, a change of clothes, or fresh food
If that is the case, then the burly man shouldn't be dressed in white. it may have once been white, but no longer, stained as it was. Even helps sell the whole journey as arduous and unclean. unless of course said burly man is in some way noble or has access to fresh clothes.

>large wooden ship
I think this is rife for a metaphor. Call it instead a "Wooden Leviathan" or some such

>Fresh sounds of vulgarity spread
use a more bombastic term. Especially if it's getting more and more vulgar. Use that to signify their excitmenet and sense of haste.

>The trading goods came out first. Large boxes of goods for trade
redundant.

>hurriedly unloaded
another good spot for metaphor

>hands of impatient merchants tapping their feet for their lessers to finish
if they are so impatient, and consider these men lesser, i think they'd do more than tap their feet.

>The smell of sweat, piss, grime, vomit, shit, and smoke of opium
be more descriptive of these smells

>There were fifty of them, chattering amongst each other.
50 of what? smells? waves? establish the men first.

>Many of them were orphans, unwanted children, the poor, widows, dreamers, criminals, refugees, and one was once a prestigious government official, losing his position after the British freed him from the might of the Qing

might be better to say there are 50 men, among them x and x and x, mthe smells surrounding them or whatever.

All in all, not bad, but does need work.


>>20240667
I disagree. The idea of dialogue is to capture the speaker as they are, not edit it for others.

So I'm not ready to post any of my writing as of yet, but I wanted to see if any of you thought my premise is interesting.


So, there's this guy who wants to be a writer. Something of a standin for myself. His story is set in a fantasy world, following a warrior and her companions as they venture to defeat an evil lich. Pretty bog standard fantasy stuff.
He shared his ideas with his little sister, whom he's very close with, owing to neglect by their parents. He wanted her to have someone in her life, unlike him.

Anyway, the first few chapters kind of set him up, you get to know him. He talks of his struggles with writing that mirror my own, and his job, his duties to his sister, etc.

Eell, as it turns out, the world he's writing about is a real place, and furthermore, he knows about it, and travels to it, because the words flow easier over there.

Long story short, he gets his soul stolen, and his sister has to go over to this other world and save him and adventure ensues.

Obviously this is a bare bones premise for quick digestion. But I think it's a great starting point. I have a lot of this other world figured out, and what characters his sister will meet to hinder and help her. I'm getting very close to starting it in earnest, and even I'd you all say it's shit, imma roll with it.

So what do you think?

>>20240721
>The idea of dialogue
If all that mattered were accuracy and precision, all of us would be technical writers instead of wasting our time with fiction. If that's not the care, I hold that peppering your prose with ugly contractions is very much open to critique.

>>20240929
>But I think it's a great starting point
If you like it, then go ahead and write it. Premise is overrated. There's never been a premise good enough to carry poor writing. I think the only utility of premise is to excite the author such that he cares enough to write the premise, and to write it well.

>>20240930
But he's set up that these are poor, hardship-ridden people who are lower on the social ladder than merchants. It would nor make much sense for them to speak in perfect English. In real life, these types of people speak with contractions and wierd vernacular.

>>20240934
Fair enough. Truth be told, I'm looking for a little validation from internet strangers. Useless, by and large, and vain, sure, but fuck it, I want some.

>>20240936
I'm talking about stylizing the prose differently. Absolutely, write the vernacular if these people speak that way. It just strikes me as overly precise—and ugly—to represent their speech with complete grammatical accuracy. >>20240658
>“Move it already, ya damn coolies! Before we send y'all back to India wit’ dem tea sippers,” yelled out a stout burly man in white.
I would change it to:
>Move it already, you damn coolies. Before we send yall back to India with them tea sippers.
"Wit' dem" is overkill. It's an authorial insecurity, and reads as if the author is scared the reader won't be able to fill in the blanks and understand that this is a coarse person. Omitting the proper grammatical particles gives the same effect with much more elegance.

>>20240956
I see your point, I apologize for assuming you were stating something you weren't.

I see your point, it is more pleasant to read, "cleaner" is the word that most comes to mind, but I don't think it's a wholly necessary change if there is going to be a spectrum of voices/vocabularies/tones within this group of people. If some speak like that, and some speak your way, I think it's a good way to show such a difference in personality.

I had a premise in my mind but I want to know if it was done before. It’s about a woman who gets an abortion but then starts having visions of the baby she killed which grows up in real years. Like 2 years after the abortion she sees a 2 yo baby. Then 5 years later she is married and pregnant and wants to have the baby, but the vision of the 5 yo kid which she aborted is haunting her and trying to kill her but you don’t know if the character is going crazy of there is an actual supernatural being trying to kill her.

>>20240956
I actually like the older version solely for how jarring it is.
I assume this is the chinaman story and this is quite early on in it. It would make perfect sense that he find the old American dialect awkward. What better way to have you understand that than to have you stumble through the same language.

>>20240966
>"cleaner" is the word that most comes to mind
I would probably say it's not more clean as much as it's in better taste. There is no difference in the way the two versions are read. It just allows the reader to form the connection in their own mind. Bring out the speech patterns more than highlighting the imprecision in pronunciation. Show the WAY they speak through the manipulation of language rather than bashing the reader over the dead with wit' dem and ya etc. The latter should never be used under any circumstance, especially in current year where it's so evocative of internet lingo. Elegance is always the goal. Provide just enough information for the reader to catch on. Foster discovery rather than dictating. It's just a more rewarding experience in general, and it's a philosophy that works at every level of the fiction-writing process.

>>20240980
I haven't heard of anything like it before. But I mainly stick to fantasy, so idk.

>>20240997
Me too, but I’m asking because it seems like such a simple horror concept that it must’ve been made (spirit of aborted baby getting revenge on the mother trying to abort a baby she wants/kill her).

>>20240994
I agree with your points, and your way is more my style of writing and liking in general, but I disagree with the notion that it should never be used.
I don't care for hard rules in writing, particularly in fiction. And I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. It may be a bit on the nose, but that doesn't mean it can't have its uses, and can't be used for good effect.

I'm curious, your opinion. If a character had a lisp or some other sort of speech quirk, do you find it distasteful to highlight that in their dialog, emphasizing the sss sounds or whatever?

>>20241008
Not exactly the same but there is a film with a similar concept. 80’s grind house film about a mother who has her aborted fetus flushed down the drain where it evolves into a monster before proceeding to murder everyone.

>>20241008
Plus, I wouldn't worry too much if your idea has been done.
They all have.
You're not going to find a new and thrilling never before seen concept.
What you can do is have a thrilling never before seen take on your concept. Find what you want to say, and scream it.

>>20241023
Cool. Can you tell me the name of the film?

>>20241030
The Suckling.

>>20241018
>I don't care for hard rules in writing, particularly in fiction
I agree entirely. Omitting grammar is, after all, breaking the rules. I am suggesting a more savvy way to break the rules. In a sense, this could be taken as a rule, in and of itself, but if we pursue this line of thought too far we'll end up at the bottom of a pit of self-reflexive hell, so I'll bow out at this point. I do think that this is a good reason to break the rules.

As for the lisp, I'd have to see it. Could be good, could be bad. All I know is that in this particular instance, the representation of that character's speech pattern is clumsy and ugly. Part of this is that lisps aren't anywhere near as commonly represented in literature. Dialects, however, are very commonly represented. They have a rich history in English language literature, and it reads pretty inauthentic in the wake of authors like Faulkner and McCarthy—guys whose lived experience influenced their representations of vernacular—to stylize it in perfect grammatical accuracy. It reads like a carpetbagger dilettante cataloging linguistic curios, and the piece in question didn't seem to be reaching for anything other than authenticity.

>>20241095
Well thanks for the discussion. I felt you were a bit more thorough and learned that I was, but I felt I got my point across fairly well. You raise good points, very good points, and I'll be sure to remember them in my own writing. Thanks for the chat.

>>20240929
I think the idea of a writer in a fantasy setting is a fun one. Try reading some King to get a feeling of how he does it, often his main characters are writers who find themselves in frightening situations.

>>20241106
Way ahead of you my dude. Kind of why I wanted to do it. The other being, wanting to write it myself, I can vent some of my frustrations with the process through him, hopefully making him feel more real and authentic.

As for the fantasy world I itself, very heavily inspired by the dark tower series, with some aspects being a direct homage. Hopefully never bordering on pure imitation.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the tone and general feel of the fantasy world is that of a more consistent all-world, because while I love the dark tower series, I absolutely hate how he straight up ignored aspects he had set up as important toward the end.

>>20240149
>The story behind the infinite improbability drive was a fun bit of hyperphysics.
It's fun, but not profound. Just conceptual wordplay.

>>20240511
Most people write slowly. It does get easier.
There are tricks. If you can't think of a word but you can think of a vaguely similar one, use a thesaurus. If you happen to know multiple languages, feed words and phrases through a translator.
If you're unsure about form you can look up examples in other writing.

>>20237515
appreciate it

>>20241099
>more thorough and learned
Maybe I'm just more opinionated. Cheers.

>>20240980
Pretty cool concept. Will make femoids mad

>>20240980
Reminds me of Beloved by Toni Morrison

I can't keep my story on topic. Each new sequence is irretrievably different from the previous.

>>20241341
Make that your strength.

>>20241341
If that's what your brain wants to do, why not just abandon the idea you need to shoehorn it into a tiny box?

>>20241344
>>20241349
Because nobody of worth to me would want to read trash like it. But thanks

>>20241363
>nobody of worth to me
Stop placing value on others.

>>20241363
>nobody of worth to me
Maybe you should take up surgery or bricklaying.

>>20241377
Hey, my third novel will be called Bricklayer! Don't use that word or you'll wear it out.

>>20240338
My guy, how can you be so insecure? You sound like you have both thumbs up your ass. Don't ask for criticism if you're gonna bitch and make excuses when you get it. You sound like fucking Pat Tomlinson about to call the other anon a stalker child. Get a grip broski.

Does anyone have a literary agent?

>>20240367
For a rough phone draft its legitimately solid. A bit purple, but nothing a light editing pass won't fix. And like the other anon said, have self confidence in the rhythm of your story. Although its a good idea to try and hook readers in with a snappy and intriguing opening paragraph, making it too frontloaded can actually have the opposite effect and make it either look purple, or fuck up the tempo of the rest of your opening chapter. Do try to have a good opener, don't overdo it. Good luck fren!

I'm ESL. Should I write my novel in my native language first and then translate it, or just start writing in English?

>>20240511
As someone who writes at a glacial pace, I can tell you that you shouldn't worry. It's better to write slowly but write well rather than write fast and churn out shit. Either way your first draft is most likely gonna be caca, but you'll fix that with your first editing pass, you'll line and content edit and carve away at that rough marble block you shat out until it looks like something presentable. And yes, it's normal to have words sit at the tip of your tongue and struggle to find them, it gets better when you get into the rhythm of writing.

Could use another set of eyes. How are we looking?

----------

I sit upon a black-lacquered chaise lounge upon a beach of black sand where waves lap quiet at the shore amid faint calls from gulls nestled high above in crevices and outcrops from the rising coastal cliffs. The sea foams gently at the shallows and around a jut of sedimentary rock in sea-stained gradient from deep, dead-algal brown to the pocked and barnacled sharp greywacke edges above, where sparse-branched cypress post vigil, wind-cowed and geriatric—funereal—among the light and rocky undergrowth beneath. The sun diffuse through an overcast grey blanketing. Fog’s slow tumble in crag-clutching descent of the cliff’s jagged face.

I rise. The seawater’s cold bite at my ankles. I turn. The seabreeze chill at my nape. I walk. Coarse rough blacksand underfoot. I look. There’s a cabin ahead, tucked in a sharp cliffside couloir.

I pick through the driftwood and make my way towards it. Salt-bleached stairs too dead to muster splinters. A similar chaise, japanned and jetblack, out of place atop the greywhite knurling of the pitch-bound porch. Through the stains of salt and sediment on windows long-past started their glacial glissando there is, slightly visible, a finger of steam escaping its cast iron kettle. Two glazed-clay mugs beside, the tethers of teabags hanging loose over the rims. I knock on the door.

Come in!”

>>20240929
If you like the premise, go ahead with it. Everyone has a ton of ideas, but execution is where it counts.

>>20240929
>>20241789

That's not to say premise isn't important. If you want to sell people on this, you need to have a synopsis. What you wrote is too long to grab attention.

How do I describe an albino person whithout using the world "white" so much?

>>20241803
Pale, alabaster, colourless.

>>20241803
Pale, pallid, almost translucent, light, fair, fair-skinned, almost grey, slightly ashen... I suggest reading this chapter in Moby-Dick.
https://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/42/moby-dick/702/chapter-42-the-whiteness-of-the-whale/

>>20241755
I'm almost positive I recognize your writing from a previous thread. This could just be me but personally I think your sentences are holding themselves back. You know what you want to do with the imagery, but the voice in my mind feels like it needs to gulp down a breath of air by the time I finally find a period.

I feel like I'm listening to this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s59rx_VBCY8

And I mean that more in a "some of these run on sentences with grandiloquent imagery just come across as reaching".

This is all in heavy contrast to the next section here:
I rise. The seawater’s cold bite at my ankles. I turn. The seabreeze chill at my nape. I walk. Coarse rough blacksand underfoot. I look. There’s a cabin ahead, tucked in a sharp cliffside couloir.

Stylistically I see what you're trying to do here, but in the context of the previous section it feels like you don't know what kind of voice you want to have as a writer and instead you're throwing out a charcuterie board to sample all of them.

You spend a lot of time describing things in a very waxy, poetic fashion, but ultimately it feels like you're putting a bow on an empty box.

>The sea foams gently at the shallows and around a jut of sedimentary rock in sea-stained gradient from deep, dead-algal brown to the pocked and barnacled sharp greywacke edges above, where sparse-branched cypress post vigil, wind-cowed and geriatric—funereal—among the light and rocky undergrowth beneath.

This is all one sentence, and while you're doing a great job at evoking these silent feelings of the sea and the shore, that's really all this is. I think maybe this style lends itself better to poetry.

>>20241803
Forgot ivory.

Does it hook you up?

Woke up inside my car again. Breath stinking like shit. Body aching. Looking outside Marie wasn’t anywhere to be found. The bitch must’ve been poking it on her own once more if she found a clean enough place. Opened the door and felt the cold wind of February raping my weak skin. My lips would be dry and bloody in no time, which would only make the scar of the crack pipe more noticeable. It wasn’t my fault. Marie was the one who convinced me to spend the money to buy a new fix. When Benuit found out he deservedly kicked the fuck out of me, unfortunately breaking the pipe I was smoking which perforated my skin. Going down to the subway I noticed the disgusted faces the sheep would make. Motherfuckers are modern slaves, tied to their 9 to 5 quarters filled with backstabbing phonies. At the end of the day ungrateful kids and someone who was probably cheating on those sorry fucks awaited. That wasn’t for me. I’m free.

>>20241755
first of all, those two upons so close together in the opening sentence are very noticable. The sentences could also use some breaking up, would make it more comfortable to read which I think is important to reinforce the rustic setting you seem to be aiming for. You’re writing in the present tense, so assume you’re describing things in a stream of consciousness style, still breaking things up a little and making it easier to read that way will help the reader place themselves in the character more. I want your description of the setting to really evoke what the character is feeling, would have a huge impact on the substance of your passage. It needs to do double duty. There is a voice here, just requires some editing work.

Working on a hook/tone for a new story. How hooky is it coming off so far?

A delicate saccharine turned progressively robust with each step, accompanied by stout bouquet of spoil and waste. The young watchman keeping sentry at the entry had worn kerchief over his pale face and appeared not the least bit interested in watching anything. Without giving so much as a glance to the approaching gentleman, he waived his free hand indicating that permission to enter was given. The gentleman paused at the door and with an apathetic concern and yielded a small phial from his inside coat pocket, placing it in the flailing hand of the watchman.

“Peppermint oil. Just a dab under the nares.”

The watchman jolted at the action causing him to forget about the sick he was holding back just long enough to turn his eyes upward.

“You would do well to become accustomed to the aroma sooner than later given your line of work.”

>>20241819
Push the no nonsense voice of the character more I see cracks in it with some of your sentences (“the cold wind of February raping my weak skin”, that one unfortunately seems unnecessary also because the sentence speaks for itself).

>>20241815
>the voice in my mind feels like it needs to gulp down a breath of air by the time I finally find a period
Hmmmmm. This is very useful, but a little disappointing. I put a lot of effort in, trying to create those natural "breath points" for active readers. Maybe I should just file for divorce from my beloved run-on sentence. At the very least, maybe we just need to take a break. As for the reaching, I very much am. I hope someday I might at the very least catch it by the hairs.
>>20241836
This is where I think my autism tends to fail me. I'm not a super emotional person. As a loose background, my narrator is pretty depersonalized in general. He's an empty suit — full of big words but light on everything else. Maybe that means the premise is doomed from the start. I'll have to see when it comes time for the first major editing pass.

I appreciate the input from both of you. High quality stuff. Thanks frens.

>>20241915
I would describe your writing the way you have a finalist on a show like Master Chef who is a phenomenal cook, but who just can't plate for shit. Unfortunately the "plating" aspect of writing is a large part of things. (Also, don't take that as me saying you can't plate for shit)

I think the occasional run-on sentence is fine when you're trying to convey an idea, but the key difference is that your run on sentences tend to just be embellishing and adding more detail to already vivid imagery. Do yourself a favor and break things up a little. Your very first sentence is the easiest win of them all:
>I sit upon a black-lacquered chaise lounge upon a beach of black sand where waves lap quiet at the shore amid faint calls from gulls nestled high above in crevices and outcrops from the rising coastal cliffs.

I sit upon a black-lacquered chaise lounge upon a beach of black sand. Waves lap quiet at the shore amid faint calls from gulls nestled high above in crevices and outcrops from the rising coastal cliffs.

>The sun diffuse through an overcast grey blanketing. Fog’s slow tumble in crag-clutching descent of the cliff’s jagged face.

The sun diffuses through an overcast grey blanketing, her rays tumbling slowly in crag-clutching descent of the cliff’s jagged face.

These are just ideas.

>>20241915
I want to put more stress on the double duty part of my reply, this doesn’t always have to be emotional, these kinds of sentences can very quickly feel meandering if they’re not highly intentional i.e. they’re doing more legwork than just description. Using them well requires an advanced grasp of prose because of this I believe. Reiterating that it doesn’t have to be extremely emotional, this just seemed like that kind of scene.

>>20241915
>He's an empty suit — full of big words but light on everything else
That can work. American Psycho, for example, is about a protagonist who is fundamentally a really boring person who doesn't really have any attachments and is just superficially liking things to seem like he's with it.

Another week, another banger chapter. Keep the faith brothers.

>>20241648
No, I have a physical agent

Got a text from my mom, she finished reading by detective story. She liked it but also asked how I knew what drinking whiskey is like.
I'm 29 years old. Should I point out to her I have the legal means to research such topics?

Do any of you have to wear diapers so you can get in a good writing session without have to go for a pee break every five minutes?

>>20242531
Are you incontinent?

All my sex scenes turn into comedies and I keep adding new ones because there's so many ways sex can be silly.
Have I stumbled on to something integral to the human experience?

>>20242543
That sounds great.

>>20242535
I thought that was uncontrollable pooping.

>>20239977
good job!

>>20240047
LMAO you stench of pretentious 12 years old redditor. I hate The Hitchhiker's Guide but at least I've read it you mongoloid. have you ever even read a book or do you just watch youtube essays about it?
go back

>>20242543
Sex is fucking hilarious

thinking about the mechanics of hanging for an attempted suicide scene I'm trying to write
if somebody hung themself, would they be able to loosen the rope around their neck enough to breathe if somebody were to stand under them and support their body weight, pushing them up?
I guess it would depend on the kind of knot, but I don't want to rope myself by accident figuring this out

>>20242658
Of course, you wouldn't need to "hang" if you just choked on the rope itself

Bookshelves lined the walls. They were loaded each with volumes of legal texts, instructions for government filings, and magical guidance. There were no spines that pushed out further than the others, or empty spaces between books, nor were there any lying on their sides or tossed on the desktop.
Her father and uncle had maintained a library in their Yendell home. If it was ever organized, it was done so in a way inscrutable to all but those siblings. Ayara and her little brother had always managed to find what they wanted if given enough time. Tales of the weird and unusual in the World of Light for her, military histories for him, later she and Harnen explored the romances and magical instructions.
To her, that library had been a loving place of imagination and fun. This was no library in a family’s home, though. This was Prefect Senaria’s office. From the moment the Prefect’s assistant led them into the room, Ayara knew this was not a place of imagination and fun.
“It’s like a machine,” Tad whispered to Ayara. They each waited in oversized chairs of aged, red leather and brass studs that creaked with every movement. Ayara looked about. Her movements became unintentionally synchronized with the ticking of a tall clock behind her.
“A turned off one,” Tad added. The seat scrunched under him as he struggled to find a position that would allow him to face the prefect from across her desk, when she finally arrived, and still be comfortable. He didn’t seem to be succeeding. With his orange hair slicked back while stuck in fresh, stiff clothes, he’d seemed uncomfortable all morning.
“I’ve an idea!” Ayara rose from her chair, pulling her dress straight as she did. It was crimson and gold and very conservatively cut; one of Bonnelle’s ideas for subtly appealing to the Prefect’s nationalistic senses. Kornin had found it an attractive gown, which surprised Ayara as it’s dour tones and heavy cloth were very unlike the fashions of his desert homeland of Fairlaigh. As she pulled a wide-spined tome from one shelf she was surprised by how light the sleeve felt as it hung from her arm. She returned to Tad. “Up!” She tilted the book up and down in her hands to illustrate.
Tad gripped the armrests and lifted himself off the seat. Ayara was sliding the book under his butt to boost him in the chair when the Prefect entered.
“What do you think you’re doing?”

>>20242658
The past tense is actually "hanged" but only for "hang" as in execution. I dunno how people even figure that out, I only know how to tie my shoes but I bet a boyscout, wikihow or a suicide guide might have it all spelled out.
HG Wells wrote History of Mr Polly, where a man tries to kill himself but then becomes a hero after he tries to put out a fire that starts in the process. If he were not incompetent the story would have ended right there.

>>20242658
the thing with hanging is the "humane" way to do it is to have a short drop where the weight of the body breaks the neck. if the drop is to long the rope can literally cause decapitation, and if it's too short it'll end up in strangulation. as a suicide method hanging is awful, slitting your wrists would be less terrible.

if the knot is a noose and someone is underneath them it could be loosened - except that would require the hanging person have their hands free to do it, and basically in all cases they're tied - so you'd need another person to loosen the rope. probably easier to cut the rope.

>>20242735
speak for yourself, I was sentenced to be hung like a horse until dead

>>20242796
Some people get all the luck.

What the /lit/ take on substack? Is it a good place to self publish or is it for has beens and industry cucks to make some extra dough? I've been thinking of trying to start one up but I'm not sold on it

>>20242919
I think it sounds gay as fuck. It requires readers to submit their email - which will then be sold and spammed - in order to get a newsletter or some shit? You'd be better off starting a wordpress blog with a patreon link. If you're doing fantasy retard road isn't a bad choice, either.

>>20242717
too much telling.

>>20242974
>Retard Road
?

>>20243083
royalroad.com

>>20240243
I change viewpoints a lot, and the thing bursting out of the water is the protagonist

>>20243050
I'll take out the descriptions, then.

>>20242974
I guess not all writers are businessmen

>>20241979
i had to think on it a while (7 or so hours, evidently) but i think i understand what you mean now, in the sense that something looks different depending on what state you're in as you look at it. clumsy example incoming, but the color red might be a romantic sight if you're feeling horny, but the color of blood if you're pissed... like, that concept except extrapolated much further and more subtly. cheers, i've never thought about it in that way.

What about this intro?

Incels were right. The effects of the lack of sex that the greater part of males suffered in those last years were a great factor of the Great Collapse of human societies. New armed groups were being formed each month, mass shootings were happening each day. That’s when some sick fucks somehow sabotaged many of the world’s nuclear reactor with a major coordinated attack, guaranteeing that most of the first world would become inhabitable for hundreds of years. In the midst of all that hysteria, tensions rose between the nuclear armed nations, leading to a total war and atom bombs being dropped all over. Billions died. I still remember that day, dad running us to get inside the bunker. Life would never be the same again.

>>20241755
It's a bit purple throughout and the "I do this" "I do that" is somewhat afected and cringey.

>>20243780
You have something going, but it needs editing. Trim relentlessly:
>The incels were right. The lack of sex that the greater part of males suffered was the driving factor of the Great Collapse of human societies. New armed groups formed each month, mass shootings happened each day. Then some sick fucks sabotaged the world’s nuclear reactors with a coordinated attack, guaranteeing that most of the first world would be uninhabitable for hundreds of years. Tensions rose between the nuclear nations, leading to a total war and atom bombs being dropped all over. Billions died. I still remember that day, dad running us to get inside the bunker. Life would never be the same again.
It's possible to trim further, but then it becomes more subjective than I'm comfortable with.
"The incels were right" seems stronger than "Incels were right", but maybe that's just me. I also changed "a great factor" to "the driving factor".
"In the midst of all that hysteria" felt not just redundant but inappropriate, as if those events were a backdrop instead of a cause.
Corrections:
>reactor -> reactors
>inhabitable -> uninhabitable

Deus ex machina ending except it's set up and foreshadowed from the start, do I make it obvious or subtle

>>20243186
I know your trolling but unironically half of them for sure.

>>20243968
You can outright state it, fourth wall break and everything:
>The book is going to end like this!
And half your readers will be surprised and the other half will think you clever.

>>20243968
>Deus ex machina ending except it's set up and foreshadowed from the start
Doesn't a Deus ex just randomly happen.
If your story is about a fire and it's put out by a heavy rain at the end, isn't that different from weather reports throughout the story?

Any recommendations for good thalassophobia- adjacent short horror stories?

>>20243968
>novel I'm working on has a deus ex machina as the precipating event
>do this intentionally as part of an eschatological view I have that builds the setting
>showed the drama in the first draft and some got the wrong impression that the book was a thriller
>try to hide the drama and readers ask why I told them about the world shattering drama instead of showing them
Shit, what do I? I am gonna do my best to mellow out this first chapter because most of the story is like literary fiction. I am tempted to do something like Sound and the Fury where the haunting past is filled in through stream of consciousness and you discover the intro along the way.

>>20243968
>>20244096
Didn't this happen in John Dies At the End

Wrote 44k characters today. My note app doesn't track word count so I averaged the character count to a, probably too forgiving, five word average that came to 8.8k words. Though it's not a monumental amount of text, it's by far the most I've written in one sitting in two years. I feel more inspired than I have in months to write. And though each day I wake up expecting to have little drive to write, my mind stays true to this idea. I've admittedly become a bit detached from my life the last few days as this idea occupies most my mind. But I couldn't be happier. So I say to those who are struggling:
It's okay to put it down for a while. As long as you know in your heart that you will again pick it up when the time is right, you will without fail. It may perhaps be that whatever idea or inspiration you lost before was never what you were truly meant to transcribe; whether that problem was with you or your idea, it doesn't matter. Pay it no mind. For if any aspect of that previous idea was destined to be transcribed by you, it'll manifest itself within your newest fruit of inspiration. And it will likely do so with much more refinement, as if that aspect was a mismatched piece of a puzzle you'd yet to find and attempt.
Stay writing!, and if not now, stay patient! Your time will come. Just do not give up.

>>20241377
maybe you should sit in your room and masturbate in the mirror. I want to write like a public servant.

>>20244052
Yeah yeah. And then you idiots will complain about everything seeming so empty and me only explaining what's important to the narrative.

>>20244531
The first step is realizing this is not a good place to air your writing. You're better off spending a hundred bucks on a creative writing class or hiring an editor/literary analyst to give you critique if you're uncertain of your work. Obviously free seems more appealing, but theres also a reason it's free.

>>20244560
>The first step is realizing this is not a good place to air your writing.
then why is it even here?!

>>20244590
To discuss literature. Not get your writing critiqued by nobodies who, for all you know, rarely read or have never attempted write anything genuine in their life.

>>20244621
But this is the writing general. Discussing literature is the rest of /lit/.

>>20241341
So, "My Life" by Lyn Hejinian?

>>20241803
Thesaurus exist for this purpose.

>>20243780
You're on to something legitimate.
https://www.google.com/search?q=societies+with+bad+gender+ratio
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-men/
Societies where men can't find mates tend toward violence and disintegration.

>>20244140
This is the /wg/ thread, not /lit/, but most of H.P. Lovecraft's horrors came out of the ocean.

>>20244531
Oftentimes less is more.
>>20242717
Here are the changes I'd make. I know you want to add even more worldbuilding in this small space, but you really have a lot:
>The walls of Prefect Senaria's office were lined with bookshelves.
>“It’s like a machine,” Tad whispered to Ayara. They were waiting in oversized chairs of aged leather that creaked with every movement. “A turned off one,” he added.
>Her father had maintained a disorganized library in their Yendell home, but Ayara and her little brother had always managed to find what they wanted if given enough time. Tales of the weird and unusual in the World of Light for her and military histories for him. Later she and Harnen explored romances and magical instructions.
Araya rose from her chair and straightened her new crimson and gold dress as she did. The choice had been Bonnelle's idea to subtly appeal to the Prefect's nationalistic sense. As she pulled a wide-spindled tome from one shelf she was surprised by how light the sleeve felt as it hung from her arm.
>“What do you think you’re doing?”

>>20241803
Albino. The albino.

>>20244753
I appreciate the example. So "telling" vs. "showing" is more a function of length?

>>20240338
OK, think of it this way.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, you write your story, it somehow gets published, someone wants to interview you about it, and they bring up the similarity to Gerald's Game.
Are you going to respond by ranting and raving like this, splitting hairs and refusing to give any ground?
Because if you do, your writing career will be over before it's begun.
Perhaps you don't have the necessary temperament for this line of work.

>>20244808
No, "showing" is a function of letting the reader discover what's going on for themself, rather than being told what conclusion to form.

>>20244713
Writing general, not critique general. Those suggest going to the critique threads even less.

A bit of a diddy about a man on a bench waiting for a turtle :^)

https://ghostbin.com/SaDmW

>>20244821
Okay so my mistake was having lines like how the office made Ayara uncomfortable or that her memories of the old library were pleasant ones.
But the fact I needed this conclusion explained means I’ll never be a writer.

>>20245041
you should nudge and hint not, push and shove with your words, kinda like riding a horse

>>20245072
I guess. I’ve been doing this shit since 2013 I should be perfect by now.

>>20245041
I wouldn't say that...after all, you seem to have the essential "drama queen" nature a writer needs.

>>20245099
Yay! I’m a drama Queen!

>>20245091
Tolstoy wrote his entire life and never felt like he achieved what he sought to do. He died in a train station. You've got a ways to go before it's your turn to die in a train station bro.

>>20245091
2005 for me and I still make basic errors, and sometimes drop tense, or even lose cohesiveness mid sentence. You'll never be perfect. So just make sure you get the thoughts you want down first and then focus on getting it as close as you can to structured how you want. After that it's stylistic choices that you can make based on external input or personal preference.

>>20245247
Franz Kafka enjoyed no meaningful literary success during his life.
By the time he died, he was so bitter, he ordered the executor of his will to destroy all his work and his notes.
The only reason we get to enjoy classics like "Metamorphosis" and "The Trial" is because his executor broke his promise.

John Kennedy Toole was so distraught over his failure to get "A Confederacy Of Dunces" published, he killed himself.
His mother persisted, and after 11 years, finally managed to get it published.
It immediately won the Pulitzer Prize.

>>20244338
Happy for you anon, ~9k in a single day is incredible. I don't track very closely anymore but am content as a ~1k a day toiler now but I find joy in my writing and it's frankly a miracle I can fit as much as I do into my life at the moment at all.

What was your hourly wordcount like on this sprint if you had to guess? Did you piss in bottles to maintain focus?

>>20245041
My problem is you have reference upon reference upon reference to people and things that are not there. Its a confused muddled mess.
The scene is Araya and Tad meeting with the Prefect.
People not present:
We have the father and uncle in Yendell.
We have the prefect's assistant.
Tad is Ayara's brother, right? No, wait, I think Harnen is her brother. Goodness.
We have Bonnellle who suggested the dress - which is not a necessary detail, only that someone suggested the dress for the reason given. We then have Kornin who likes the dress and who comes from the desert of Fairlaigh. Bonnelle I can see you mentioning, even if she can be skipped, but why Kornin is mentioned I have no idea.
So we have the father, the uncle, Harnen (the brother, I assume), the prefect's assistant, Bonnelle and Kornin all referenced and none of which are present. The 400 word scene - the leadup to the real scene where they actually have a conversation with the Prefect - is a total fucking mess.

>>20245306
And to think a few months back one of you people said I was shit because I was only describing “what’s on the screen.” Here I thought there was value to showing (or telling, since I’m not good at this) how the setting affects her, the memories it touches off, the circumstances about her being there (stuck in a dress she didn’t choose to manipulate someone). Fuck it. Guess I’ll just go back to very bland “they were in a room. Person came in, they talked. They left.” And call it a day.

>>20245306
I’m struggling to balance this criticism with previous complaints from you people that I was being too focused on “what’s on the screen.” Maybe I’ll just start ignoring criticism altogether if it’s always just going to be some bitchy “ everything you do is wrong all the time.”

>>20245280
I think a majority of classic writers never find success. Even when they were alive, it was mostly smut and easy to read literature that dominated. Similar to how LitRPGs, erotica and fantasy make the majority of money in literature today. Also political nonfiction.

>>20245386
>political nonfiction
No shit? I always felt like this shit might sell, but nobody really reads any of it and it’s only put on shelves as a statement.

>>20245398
still selling, as well as money laundering too.

>>20245379
During your conversation with the Prefect are you going to talk about Yendell or Fairlaigh? If not, you don't need to specifically name those places. The library can simply be back home, no mention of the father or uncle needed. Is Harnen's penchant for military history plot relevant? If it is, no harm in mentioning it. Do you like the image of Tad shifting around in his chair? Mention it when the Prefect is sitting across from him and he's having difficulty seeing.

>>20245406
>money laundered
this is it right here. campaign contributions being washed

>>20240438
Got to the top of page 39.
I didn't read too much tonight; I spent most of my time on my own novel.
I'm up to 67k words, the remainder is outlined profusely, and I'm keen to crank out the rest of my first draft!

Your pacing and narrative drive are awfully well done for a first draft.
I'm also glad to hear you've thought of the issues I brought up previously, and have plans for them.
I really want to know where this goes.
I just hope your Hell achieves an otherworldly dread, maybe not Lovecraftian per se, but hopefully just as unsettling.
It seems to be well on its way to doing so.

I assume you copy text from your summary/outline and then fix it up in the first draft.
I say that because you have a lot of obviously wrong pronouns.
I make that mistake too.
But that's a minor point, one that'll get ironed out in successive read-throughs.

I'm also reminded of a short comic-book series called "Nancy In Hell".
Just make sure what you're doing is different. It is so far.

>>20245408
My issue there is that if I’m only ever supposed to mention just things directly related to the immediate scene then how do I ever foreshadow or build up to something? For instance, a point to he memories about the library is that they’re fond and warm about everyone in her family (father, uncle, brother, and “sister”) except for her mother (who goes unmentioned.) when Ayara finally gets around to seeing her mother again I don’t her being a complete bitch to come out of nowhere, so I’ve been dropping hints to them having a frosty relationship beforehand. Or is it best to just not build up to something like that? Should I find a way to have her just explicitly say “yeah, I hate my mom because she’s a cunt” instead?

>>20238455
I've tried to write some 40k stuff before and lore-nerds would nitpick it to pieces because it contradicts some literalwho? detail in some BL novel or obscure faction book. (It was something about a Rogue Trader basically becoming de facto ruler of a Forge World but the lore nerds got mad saying a Rogue Trader would never bother trying to 'rule' a Forge World or some subsector of space as a warlord. Real Rogue Traders would rather go out in the stars and explore and shit). It's dumb in the sense that 40k's whole selling point is that the universe is so big and random that almost anything can fly, but then some lore nerds can get super butt hurt that it doesn't suit their vision of canon.

Honestly, just write what you want and make sure everything is homebrew. The only way you can really break the lore is if you kill some big named hero like Gimnar, Dante, Calgar, etc... or go full stupid with Chaos being all ponies and rainbows.

>>20245286
Couldn't tell you the hourly count. I typically don't keep track either but when I stopped and saw how much I actually had down I had to figure it out. But if I averaged it out, I wrote for about four hours in the morning and then off and on for another four after lunch. So I'd say roughly six hours of dedicated writing when cutting out the lulls, divided into 8.8k that comes out to around 1.2k an hour. But I can say with confidence most of that came from the first four hours, when the inspiration was flowing effortlessly. I believe I was so focused on writing I couldn't even tell you if I had to piss during or not! I just know when I hit my goal at that four hour mark I realized I was starving haha.
But I also had an unplanned free day today so I could easily sink a large amount of time with zero distractions. You getting in 1k a day is fairly impressive, Id say I average less than that during my work week unless I hit a huge fountain of inspiration like I did today. But thank you. It just feels so good when you break through that damn wall that can at times stop you dead in your tracks. I hope you get to soon have a stroke of inspiration similar to mine as well!

>>20245455
>My issue there is that if I’m only ever supposed to mention just things directly related to the immediate scene
don't be a twit
if the mother is a bitch and the rest of the family is fine better to make a reference to something she and her mother disagree with rather than listing out the entire rest of the clan and how they're good. or rather than having all these references take place in a very short period of time have them spread out a bit more.

>>20245455
Your entire book isn't limited to one paragraph. Spread it out. You can later forshadow a frosty relationship at the end of the chapter when the girl sleeps. Just go have a picture of her, dad and brother.

>>20245593
I don't get it.

>>20245613
How to escape purpledom

>>20245692
A purple dom, you say?

>>20245707
Yea, accurate actually. I just get bored if I'm not under his whip.

>>20245386
>Implying Woof woof, I'm stuck on a furry mmorpg won't be a zoomer classic.

>>20245894
H-how did you know the name of my as yet unreleased novel?

Is anyone actually pursuing traditional publishing? It doesn’t seem like it

>>20246371
I am. First novel was a bust, currently 32k into my second. Will finish by August, we'll see if this one will get picked up.

Thoughts? I'm always looking to refine my prose.

>>20245423
I appreciate you taking the time to read at all, and I'd be more than happy to offer feedback of your work as well. Ought to go without saying.

My current idea for Hell's is that it's something of a cosmic wastebin. Following a very Milton-esque "War in Heaven", the angels cast out arrive to this barren plane and are (mostly) stripped of their power. Lucifer enters a self-imposed exile, possibly out of shame or embarrassment, and the other members of his coup are left in squalor.

I like the idea that these incredibly prideful beings would think this plane is somehow their supermax prison, until the first primitive humans start arriving there. Or at least until they notice them. I imagine the rage, the insult that must come with realizing your magnificent power isn't being contained in some special facility, but rather a garbage disposal for the Mortal Universe.

Fast-forward and here we are now, they've decided to create a fiefdom with the scraps that trickle into their realm, in order so that they might rule over it.

I have a lot more ideas for ways in which I can add mystery and intrigue to that aspect of Hell's history, including some that are pretty miserable.

As for the protagonist, I think you'll really enjoy what happens to her.

> days flowing like a river
> spent in vain
> an anime waifu pillow
> shiver
> changed by yellow stain
> beloved mother
> opens the door
> greeted by smell of sulfur
> and the unspoken four

> crusted, unwashed, unshaven,
> a naked monstrosity
> ominously stares

> an offering
> of food and soda
> the creature snatches and
> close the door
> she hears muffled squeaks
> an anime pilow
> gets another plow

> the son is gone
> replaced by this
> where?
> I don't know
> although one day,
> she hopes
> son returns home

>a finnish man comes
>a lonely estonian wallows
> graced by his presence
> taking in
> mongolian essence
> be glad! enjoy! experience!
> soon esti will be with child
> soon joy will be multiplied
> the child of promise
> shall enter the world
> with his strong arm
> will mount the whole earth

Morning sun meets spring dew

Refreshing air fills the nose

Joyful life, fragnant blew

Birds sing, peaceful happiness abounds

I see youth, sheepishly woo

Warm sunshine fills in the dark

Spring, how wonderous are you

guys what do you think about my poems

Do you feel it is jarring to vary how dialoge is broken out at the end of a description? Specifially using comma vs colon for example this appears in a piece together.

>Bob smelled the flowers and laughed, "these smell amazing."
>Susan's brow furrowed. He was a fool she thought, but a beautiful one so very like the flower he smelled: "Enough of that, let's get back to work."

>>20246809
Crusty

>>20246885
Both read better with a full stop. They just seem awkward in this context.
>>Bob smelled the flowers and laughed. "These smell amazing."
It can be done correctly though, something in this vein where a descriptor follows the dialogue action, separating the voice from the dialogue.
>>Bob drew back, pointing over the hedge where the roses were blooming: "There. Isn't that Sarah?"

question for amazon self publishing:

are you able to put the pages out of order?
For example, starting with page 24, then going 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.

>>20247293
Why would you?

>>20247307
there's a reason.

can you?

I suffer so you suffer. Shit involving bookshelves, goblins, and elves.
https://pastebin.com/WxcHbmfA

Hope everyone’s writing is going well today.

>>20247370
Why wouldn't you just have the first page be what the thing is?

>>20247431
I found a bible reference to cooking food over human feces and now I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate that in something.

First substack post got me to 30 followers, hopefully each post can get me at least 20. After I hit about 2,000 free followers I’ll monetize.
Will feel good to get paid for my writing.

>>20247511
Did you advertise your substack anywhere? I follow a few but I'm not sure how it works.

>>20247525
Only to my existing audience on a different platform.

>have so many stories I want to tell
>spend 8 hours editing just one chapter because there's some fuckery to fix on almost every line

rope or bridge, which is the best way? This is going nowhere

>>20247696
That's why you make a rough draft first where you can put all your ideas to paper and then go back and line/content edit silly.

>>20247734
What do you think I'm doing?

>>20247696
people always get hanging wrong. if you're hanging a willing subject (yourself) you don't need a huge drop... or even a drop at all. all you need is a noose and a doorknob. a belt will do for the noose. loop it around the doorknob and just let your head rest on it until you pass out. all you need to do is restrict bloodflow. that's it. press on your jugular with the palm of your hand and see how hard that is.

>>20247757
I don't know, it seems kinda lame to be found just hanging off the bathroom knob or something. I'd at least like them to think "damn, he went out in style," because it'll probably be the most meaningful thing I've ever done.

>>20247757
>>20247786
If you do the doorknob people might think it was autoerotic asphyxiation. And then that's your legacy.

>>20247797
just keep your dick in your pants. it's not like it's gonna magically flop out. not hard to avoid that particular impression. plus, you won't care; you're dead.

>>20247803
I used to choke myself without touching my dick at all. It gets me off without even having my dick in my hand.

>>20247803
>plus, you won't care; you're dead.
Oh look a reddit atheist, I bet you never ever had a near death experience but still write those things as if you’re an expert on the subject right? Surprise to you dumbfuck, each time I OD’d I felt as if I was watching myself from afar as I led my body.

>>20247823
death and i are old friends.

>>20247823
>as a junkie with gaping holes in my brain let me lecture you on metaphysics

>can't find the right words to write down
>spend almost every waking moment thinking of my stories
why am i like this?

>>20247454
REASONS BRO

I don't play many games but I tried out Darkest Dungeon as it was on sale recently, and by God is this dialogue phenomenal.
What must I do to reach this quality of prose? What must I learn and consume?

>>20247907
Just write it down retarded. Even if the execution is bad you can always work on it later

New thread when?

>>20247907
Do you use a thesaurus?

>>20247916
Swallow a thesaurus. I've played that game and found the dialogue a bit overwrought.

>>20247916
19th century lit and Shakespeare. Just be grandiose and consise. Imagine you are on stage chewing the scenery

>>20247929
I'm pretty sure at least one line was intentionally over-Thesaurus'd.
>Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue
It's an overly wordy way to just say "bigger isn't better unless bleeding more is better".

>>20247006
That's very clarifying, so if the description and dialogue are causally linked or a direct extension of one another it makes sense to use a colon or comma. Otherwise a full stop with a period.

>>20247926
no should i?

>>20247916
>>20247939
Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer

>>20247978
You said you "can't find the right words". A thesaurus lets you go from a word that's almost right to a word that's exactly right. That can be helpful.
But it can't help you at a larger scale, if you're unsure what kind of sentence or paragraph or style to use. For that the solution is to write more and to read more, and to try even if you don't think you can do it properly.

>>20247853
>It’s a reddit atheist telling you about how does it feel to be dead while not having ever experiencing a nde

>>20248009
I had never heard of thesaurus before. I think they might help me with my problem. Any you would recommend?

>>20248025
I use https://www.thesaurus.com/ most of the time. https://www.powerthesaurus.org/ also seems good, maybe even better.

>>20248009
using a thesaurus is cheating. you should only write with your natural vocabulary. it's pretty easy to tell when someone is using a thesaurus, because the use of language is much more nuanced than the 1:1 substitutions thesaurus fans often employ.

>>20248061
There are many words I know but cannot instantly recollect at any given moment. I might use a thesaurus to go from "dark" to "gloomy". That's not because I'm insufficiently familiar with the word "gloomy" to know its nuances.
You can abuse a thesaurus. You don't have to.
Don't you ever have a word on the tip of your tongue? That's when I reach for a thesaurus.

>>20248061
I read a book lately that felt very much like "the author had a thesaurus on hand". You can just tell, because they'll suddenly insert really archaic words that they never really use any other time, and it's incongruous with the rest of the their style.

New thread is up, even though nobody here reads, writes, critiques, or otherwise does anything that should enable them to engage with /wg/ or life in general.

>>20248148

>>20248156
Nobody sneeds

>>20248161
Everyone shitposts.

>>20241377
It just hit me who said this. You're quoting the wrong part though which is why it doesn't make sense. He was talking about technique, not about public opinion.