/lit/ - Literature

Thread question for you writers out there: what is your main character's favorite holiday and why? For you SFF geeks, if you had to invent a holiday, then please provide a brief description of what it even is.

>>20232617
I want to fuck that rabbit.

>>20232617
I think I'm accidently pulling what I call "Overwatch syndrome" in my story. Basically, when I think of a new trait or interpretation of something I create a whole new character for it. Specifically I have a total of 3 characters who have a prominent body horror thing going on

>>20232665
i don't even know reliably what day christmas is on. why would someone like me even attempt to write a character that cares about holidays?

>>20232665
He doesn't have one.

>>20232673
There's a g/fur thread on /b/ waiting for you.

>>20232665
Is there really any question?
Thanksgiving!
It's the one time a year I have an excuse to cook one of everything under the sun!

How do I write female characters?

>>20232739
Write characters, but female.

>>20232739
You start with a man, and take away reason and accountability.
(h/t to Jack Nicholson's character in "As Good As It Gets")

There are stories in genres and settings I really want to write but I know I don't know nearly enough about those genres and settings. What should I do? Wait and research even if the passion to write a story cools? Or write the story and research as I go along, then revise/rewrite the whole thing later with my new understanding?

>>20232739
First you acknowledge that men and women are different, mentally as well as physically.

>>20232665
His favorite day is the 4th of july. Not because of patriotism but because he loves playing with fireworks. The little things. The stink of sulfur compounds, the little burns you get on your finger when the fuse catchs. The smokes, the sparks. That surreal feeling you get when you walk down the suburban street after dark and there's bright lights and loud noises coming from every driveway.

The watermelon and the cookout burgers and the long summer day are all just icing in the cake.

>>20232510
Not bad but a few suggestions.
>the action, the action, the action
Needs for more specificity to ground us in the scene, even in the case of sex if you're trying not to get hot and heavy there are ways to make it goofy/lighthearted

I liked the cheeky humor but it didn't hit as well due to crowded Dialogue tags - too much description especially for a conversations between just two characters.

Also make sure all those emphasized words are italicized in the actual document rather than asterisked in case that want just for clarity when posting here.

>>20232818
Write and research as you go along.
If you write without research, you might have to discard all of it.
In general, don't treat fiction writing (especially long-form) as if it's linear. It's the exact opposite.

>>20232862
>In general, don't treat fiction writing (especially long-form) as if it's linear. It's the exact opposite.
I know, but I'm worried about not knowing the rules because then I won't know how to bend or break them properly.

>>20231841
Two things. Depends on the profession but a lot of labcoats come in different colors now to show utility and profession. A lot of synthetic chemistry labcoats are grayish blue to show anti-flammable properties. White labcoats are better for small scale or generally nonhazardous work. There are some other colors but thought I'd let you know.
Since you wrote that section on a hanging I recommend you read Ambrose Bierce's "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge".

>>20232730
>There's always a g/fur thread on /b/ waiting for you.
ftfy

>>20232859
>action/dialogue
I only had 2000 characters. Damn 4chan limits.
I assure you, the final work will be far more than 2000 characters, and involves more than just dialogue.
It's up to 58k words as of this morning.
>asterisks
I write in Markdown format, in a text editor; the asterisks will get converted to italics once run through pandoc.

But thanks for reading and responding!

How do I stop myself from writing scenes and stories in my head? It sucks all the joy of discovery out from writing for me.

>start writing a story about two characters' religious ideals being challenged, their crisis of faith and eventual reversing of said religious positions with one losing their faith entirely while the other finds his
>29k words in I discover I'm writing about one of them having his relationship sabotages by his fiancé's two-faced best friend while the other protagonist is evolving into an intelligent but ill-educated man trapped in circumstances that lead to increased cynicism and only the faith he was supposed to lose is comforting him
Well, shit. That wasn't supposed to happen and yet it do, Vladimir.

>>20232866
Let me tell you a secret.
When it comes to the "right" way to produce fiction...
...THERE ARE NO RULES.
Do what works for you.

I embrace the nonlinearity by making notes in an outline editor. I use TreeLine; it's open-source and does everything I want.
Although I strive to complete a work, I don't get hung up on it, because there's no value in that.

You will write every day.
Even if it's a sentence, it's a sentence more than you had yesterday.
You will iron out your characters, plot, setting, and themes.
You will not settle for mediocrity.
You will not allow yourself to say, "Good enough".
You will improve no matter the cost.
You will make it.

>>20232871
I'm lost. Where else would they start, except in your head?

>>20232880
based
This thread has become a breath of fresh air ever since the seething pseud took a vacation.
To think ONE person could be responsible for so much lameness.

>>20232880
Very good, sir.

>>20232884
They would start as I was writing the work, like this guy >>20232876.

>>20232879
>Although I strive to complete a work, I don't get hung up on it, because there's no value in that.
I wish I understood this years ago. So much time wasted procrastinating figuring out the "right way" to finish something.

>>20232880
Library of America mid-career FS Fitzgerald collection is finally out. Havent read him since highschool when I had no critical thinking skills.

>>20232869
I meant characters as in the super hero and the camera guy were the only two characters speaking...

How do you get better at writing description of areas? Right now I'm trying to figure out the right way to describe a courtyard that in my head looks like pic related.

My characters all sound alike. Totally unique and original problem, I know. What can I do to differentiate their dialogue so they sound like individuals?

>>20232918
Mine sound differently because their characters are entirely different, if that makes any sense. When they are sounding the same its because I don't understand the characters well enough to know how their personalities affect the way they talk.
But I'm also fine with characters sounding the same occasionally, not every dialogue has to have two completely different sounding characters every time.

>>20232911
Enclosed by lush trees all around, the ground was covered in red tile, with a fountain in the middle. Yellow lamps lit the low buildings and their glass doors. It was evening, the sunset already reddening the lower clouds, and the birds that stirred in that time before true twilight filled the air with their song, a sound almost as soothing as the trickle of water in the fountain's basins, falling from top to a lower basin, then another and finally to the bottom, whence it once again climbed to the top.
There was a scent of frying cheese and chicken in the air, the evening meal being prepared. Cutlery clinked somewhere, the table being set. Time for one last cigarette in the cooling air.

>>20232918
give them traits that would affect their speech. smart characters sound smart, dumb characters sound dumb, characters that never shut up go on adhd tangents and then the more stotic types tend to reply with shorter sentences.

now you have a cast of one dimensional characters that sound different. next step, twist it. the smart character who talks smart has trouble pronouncing certain words, or the dumb character has random depths of knowledge here and there about weird things. the stotic might get more chatty with a girl he has a crush on, etc.

basically, start with personalities and how said personalities would affect their speech. think of real life people as well, i'm sure you know a few people who talk wildly differently and you can tell them apart in person or even over text

>>20232830
based
>>20232888
Maybe you need to explain what's wrong with writing scenes and stories in your head.
I write however it comes to me; I don't impose rules on my muse.
>>20232894
Glad I could help. Now go write something!
>>20232907
Again, length limitations...it was the nature of the snippet, not the whole novel.
>>20232911
Just write a description of picrel, and continue to improve it. Practice.
>>20232918
At the core of any character are a set of values.
Those values lead to one or more priorities.
Differing priorities between people lead to conflict and drama.
A character arc is when one of someone's values changes over time.
These simple rules can of course be expanded and colored in, but they are the basics.

>>20232665
New Year's Eve, because I get shitfaced drunk every NYE, and my MC's a ravenous alcoholic.

>>20232911
Refer to books youve read with great lanscape description and analyze why it worked well. I was reading Chekhov this morning and it described how the windmill seemed to move left as their cart traveled and how it was like was shiny, waving midget. It described colors, sounds, smells, animals, how the scene changes as the dew dries. It described one side of a hill also and inevitably a pack of sheepdogs come running over it later and you can just see it happening as the sheep theyre protecting scatter. Setting can and ought to tie into characters, events and ideas. For example as they pass the white crosses of the cemetery it relates how when grandmother died her eyes wouldnt close so they covered them with coins.

>>20232617
How the FUCK do I write long sentences? And why should I?

>>20232953
Ask the guy a few threads back who claimed to have 500+ word run-on sentences.

>>20232953
You don't. Write as much as you need to get your point across.

>>20232939
>>20232879
>>20232869
>>20232862
reminder that this poster is literally from reddit. you can tell him by his offsite images of frogs he avatarfags with. he downloaded them off of a website that has put up an archive of frogs. he's the poster who spergs out and calls people "pseuds" (a word which describes perfectly the people who use it). this is him, with backlink provided:
>>20208616
>https://old.reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/
do what you want to with this information.

didnt ask

>>20232963
I used the pepe noir image to talk about my detective story a while back, please don't lump me in with him

>>20232963
picrel is the guy who wants you to believe he's an expert.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzaShoD2kUY
this is his youtube channel and an example of his voice and how terrible his taste is.

>>20232963
>>20232975
OOF

>>20232939
FUCK IT WAS YOUR STORY? I wish I hadn't been so polite now about your reddit marvel shit.

>Again, length limitations...it was the nature of the snippet, not the whole novel.
You may be retarded. You are completely not understanding my point. The length of the sample has zero effect on my comment around dialogue tags

>>20232963
>>20232975
>>20233007
I guess the 3-day ban is over.

>>20233007
hold on, i may have overstepped myself. i'm too lazy to do an archive search right now, but do see >>20232971 before we draw and quarter him.

>>20232963
>>20232971
>>20232975
>>20232984
>>20233007
samefag

>>20233058
pls no

>>20232739
Don't. Just write guys with tits.

>>20232963
troll
you dis his advice but dont offer any of yr own

>>20232739
Lurk on crystal cafe.
Women are equally deranged as men, sometimes in different ways.

>Another 1k in most recent daily editions.
>Also hav burger farts.
>I will stop to edit sometime, maybe.

>>20232886
I will be the dude to say I told everyone so, generals on 4chan always have those cycles of "GOD THIS GENERAL SUCKS" replaced by a return to form. It's hard to believe I've been here long enough to see posters come through, become recognized, and eventually stop posting like in every other general I've been in.

https://pastebin.com/wuxqXLA7
"You're a tight little unit, aren't you?"

>>20233136
Some people make a forum a better place...by leaving it.

Wrote a short story around a writing prompt that was basically "You character recieves a letter that changes their life, what is it?"
Got cucked by pastebin, so I'll post a snippet of it, crits appreciated:

Right there.
Paul had definitely found what was causing his whole house to smell like a barbeque of cheap plastic dolls and barbershop hair clippings; it was an envelope, edges singed, on the back in dark red: "IMPORTANT NOTICE."
Well. His house isn't burning to the ground around him and that's all that matters. He is going back to bed and the envelope can sit on the table by the front door, it can wait "important" as it may be. He'll just have to get used to the smell. Crack open a window, spray some air freshener, something.
He starts to set the envelope down, it starts to heat up.
Reflexively he brings it closer to his body: cold. Closer to the entryway table: warm. Closer still: hot. He finally sets it down: red hot. Fire.
"Fuck!"
Paul's hand is on fire.
The envelope sticks to his hand as he flails around, the flames spread up his arm and lick at his shoulder, biting at his skin.
'What do I do? What do I do? What do I do?'
He stops. He drops. He rolls.
…
Paul's carpet is on fire.
“Oh, come on!"
He tries to suffocate it with a nearby throw blanket which only serves to sear the fabric and spread the fire even further; the room becoming further saturated with smoke.
On his knees he pleads to the popcorn ceiling, "What do you want me to do?"
The smell of burning flesh stings at his nose and the smoke from cheap polyester blended fabric stings his eyes. Fresh pain shoots up his arm, the envelope seems to glow brighter than the rest of the flames.
"The letter? The letter! Yes– f-fuck– I'll read it in a minute–"
Paul writhes as he feels the heat gnaw at exposed bone, his arm blackening and crisping, difficult to tell skin from cloth, his roasted tissue and semi-melted clothing melding together. Screaming in pain, his body screams with him.
He can barely begin talking, but after he starts, he keeps begging, "Fine, fine, fuck! I'll read it! I'll read the letter now! Just stop! Stop! Stop! Please!? Please, please, please?"
The fire on his carpet slowly fizzles out, leaving nothing but smolder. His arm remained aflame, but the pain was reduced to intermittent dull aches.
He lets out a few more pained sobs that bubble from his throat, coughing between heaving breaths. He tries to compose himself, but as the envelope begins to warm he rips it open with his teeth, through tear-blurred vision and smokey haze, the letter reads: "Welcome to Hell, Paul!" in bold, sans serif font.
He clutches the notice in his hand and reads it over again and again; just one more time, he doesn't understand completely yet. The letters begin to morph: “That’s all. You can stop reading.”

>>20232617
Paul's favorite holiday is probably Labor Day, day off with no expectation to celebrate anything. If you asked, he'd say he doesn't know.

Substack Gods, here we come!

>>20233318
>cucked by pastebin
the story of my life.

>>20232958
Where do I find him now?

>>20232960
What if the point is that 'I could make long sentences if I wanted?'

>>20233403
>Where do I find him now?
In the nearest sewer

>>20233415
Oh, you can do better than that.
He could be writing drafts of proposed laws for Congress.

>>20232665
I can only think of holidays my characters hate. One kills himself in New Year's Eve.

>>20233403
Do that grammer/reading level check on your piece- it has an average sentence length tracker. How low are you? I'm curious what quantifies "short sentences" specifically.

>>20232879
>...THERE ARE NO RULES.
Yes there are.

>>20232665
Not a holiday, but the first day of spring. He likes to see nature change but doesnt care for family holidays. He left his crumbling family estate to make it on his own. Not autobiographical btw, I love my parents.

>>20232717
Because you shouldn't be like some faggot who thinks every character in his story should ALSO be a faggot? Are you really so unimaginative and pathetic a writer that you can't possibly fathom writing someone who isn't exactly like you?

The book I want to write next is pretty much a collection of short slice-of-life scenes with little to no plot tying them together. Basically, protagonist learns to do thing in one chapter, then redoes it better later in the book. I'm having trouble deciding how to outline this---that is, if I even should---because there is no clear "progress level" I'm aiming for. All I know is that it ends in a wedding.
I also have another idea for a book that follows a similar structure, but takes place much later and has a more defined progression; maybe I could merge the two?

>>20232953
Diagram a few long sentences and identify the meaning of each clause both in isolation and in context to the whole. The only reason you ask such a question is because you have never taken the time to actually understand those long sentences. Once you have diagrammed and taken the time to understand a few it will be second nature and you will know if you need to use such sentences in your writing. Learning more about grammar would also help.

>>20233519
How many slices of life is it gonna be before she gets raped again?

Need some advice on formatting. To my fellow novelfags, how big are your chapters? From the online shit I've skimmed over (mostly on RR since I write fantasy), they're usually around 3.5k~ words long, but I've seen shit that goes up to 10k.

>>20233519
So, literally, Mrs. Bridge.

>>20233487
At best, that's advice, not rules.

>>20233563
About the same. I don't go over 5k because I'm serializing it on Kindle Vella, but that's about their natural length, and if they go longer I split them in two.

>>20233533
Scientifically, there re 5.3 life slices to a rape.

>>20233180
Why do you even bother?

I want to get feedback on my science-fantasy book so far, it's too long to post here, and pdf sites are shady, so since I happen to have a website I've hosted it there.

https://ditzbitz.com/Breadworld+2022.pdf

>>20233631
Why do I bother doing what? Writing? I bother because I'm a Tight Little Unit.

>>20233654
Started to read it.
"Your commas should be inside your quotes," the anon said with firm conviction.
There are other punctuation, capitalization, verb-tense, and formatting issues. Maybe it's too early to bring them up; it comes across like a first draft, e.g. the prose style seems very matter-of-fact.
p. 5: Windowless trams would probably make people motion sick...just saying.
Got through the first 25 pages...it's a big boring so far. You need to start with a bang, to get your reader's attention. The first vaguely interesting thing doesn't happen until page 10.
In any case, 108k+ words is still an incredible accomplishment, regardless of other faults.

What do you guys read on substack? Curious.

>>20233654
I read the first two pages. I'm going to focus on prose, I hope you don't mind. It's something you have to get right for a good reading experience.

>Psychus rode along with his eyes closed, the transport pod whipped along the perfectly straight surface road.
These are basically two sentences jammed together, each with its own subject and verb. Try not to do that. A minimal (but not optimal) fix is to replace "whipped" by "whipping".
It's not ideal to say "rode" that long before explaining what he's riding. It forces mental backtracking. Try to re-read your sentences while keeping the reader's knowledge in mind.

>The pod began to rapidly lose speed as the deceleration process began.
The repetition of "began" is ugly, and this is wordier than it needs to be. I'd write "The pod rapidly lost speed as [...]".

>the pod intake zone
"the intake zone" would be enough.

>, the vehicle rotated and advanced
Another double sentence. In this case you could replace the comma by a period.

>Psychus felt the heat of the air outside that had come in with the vehicle and the heat that radiated off the surface of the pod.
More repetition, this time the word "heat". Maybe:
>Sweltering air had come in with the vehicle, and heat radiated off the pod's surface.

>He could smell the distinct and horrible aroma of stinkmelons on the air as well.
Don't say "he could smell" if you can describe the smell itself instead. Be careful with "as well". Perhaps:
>The distinct aroma of stinkmelons hung in the air.

>and stepped through the door as it automatically opened for him.
"For him" is redundant, you should leave it out.
Consider leaving out even "stepped through", and only describing the door automatically opening, the rest being implied.

>a short fat woman, perhaps 1.84 meters
For a rough guess this is too precise. Or if he has some implant that lets him judge height to that precision, get rid of the "perhaps".
And that's not short, unless people on your world are freakishly tall, in which case carry on.

>, she had a caramel complexion and a gap between her front teeth.
This should be a separate sentence.

>"Hello!" She chimed.
Don't capitalize "she".

>“Greetings, I’m here on council business”, Psychus responded
Put the comma inside the quotes, not outside.

>“Great, well let me just orient you and scan you into the
tower”, she said
Same here, and add a period at the end.

>Psychus pulled his phone out of the pockets of his shorts bringing up his personal information scannable from the blockchain using a quick biometric scan.
This is too long, trim it down and/or break it up.
Instead of "pockets", say "pocket". Don't mention his shorts at all.
Saying both "scannable" and "scan" might be redundant.

I see you're a programmer. Some of this advice might click, particularly the last few paragraphs: https://qntm.org/write

>>20233749
https://infinitegossip.substack.com/ is the only creative writing I read on there. I still haven't decided if it's good but it does something for me.

>>20233631
>>20233724
Seriously though, is that literally all you're going to say? Not even a passing attempt at critique? Just a low-effort jab? I'm very much open to an actual critique, if you're willing to offer one. I'd appreciate it.

>>20233769
You’re too shit to offer more of a critique.

>>20233783
Why? I don't see myself as a shitty writer. Maybe misguided, but intentionally so. What is is about my writing that triggers that "You're too critique" response? I'm genuinely curious.

>>20233787
>"You're too critique"
Sorry, the "You're too shit" response.

>>20233769
What do you want us to say?
It's too short to really develop an impression.
I have no idea who or what the "tight little unit" is.

>>20233810
>I have no idea who or what the "tight little unit" is.
Doesn't matter in the slightest. I'm not sure I even know who the tight little unit is.

>>20233810
will you be my... tight little unit?

>>20233749
Nothing.

>>20233492
>Are you really so unimaginative and pathetic a writer that you can't possibly fathom writing someone who isn't exactly like you?
yes. like literally ever other writer to ever pick up a pen, and like every other human being to age sufficiently such that they can tell self from other, the only thing i can fathom is myself from different angles. i'm just not lying to myself about it.

>>20233832
You're assuming everyone has the same limitations as you.
My characters certainly aren't all variations of myself -- that would be boring and unnecessarily limiting.
I couldn't even imagine J.R.R. Tolkien writing his character-heavy epics if he was merely self-inserting repeatedly. Can you?

>>20233751
thank you, pic rel.
>>20233747
I feel like the first chapter is the weakest (by being boring), but I do like it in the context of the whole story. If you want something interesting, there's a section starting on page 369 with more action.

>>20233816
Well then, just like you, I have no idea what I think of your writing.
Not trying to be mean...it just seems like we both agree you wrote something without purpose.

>>20233654
I don't understand how, with the abundance of how-to-write books people can still make the same mistakes over and over again. The same ten pages of exposition. The same contrived scenes without any dramatic conflict or irony or suspense or anything that would want to make someone keep reading. Would you honestly read this if it were published by one of your own favorite sci-fi authors? Would you even believe that it was? Please actually read some sci-fi stories. Try "The Martian Way" by Issac Asimov. Asimov is an archetypical "idea" writer but even he starts with characters in conflict, almost from the first line. If you want people to read your shit, write it in a way that actually makes them want to read it. Stop with this "nondescript character eating breakfast and reflecting on things he already knows for the sake of exposition". It's 2022, you fucking donkey, dialogue such as "Have a nice day" (with perfect sincerity--twice in one conversation! Twice? Twice you fucking nigger?) makes me want to jam thumbtacks between my fingernails. They didn't do this shit even in the 19th century. Please, please, please, read one of the how-to-write-books in the OP. Preferably Swain's, since everything is just a derivative of that one. Or read the cleaned up version by Chester. And just follow that it religiously for a few months. You are their target audience.

>>20233878
Who are your favorite authors?

>>20233879
Not the guy you're replying to, but which book exactly are you referring to? Can't seem to find it. Sorry if I'm retarded and missing something obvious.

>>20233913
Techniques of the Selling Writer by Dwight Swain
Fantasy Fiction Formula by Deborah Chester (I think her mentor--a student of Swain--wrote a better one, but hers is more straightforward.)

>>20233916
Thanks! I've amassed a good chunk of writing atm (~150k words) and I wanna get to pubbing but I feel like it might lack some of that initial *kick* that hooks people in. So thanks again.

>>20233872
I'm not going to persist to page 369 to find action.
Which brings up another point...you could probably condense the prose significantly.
There's no reason to pedantically show every step of the way; you can summarize the parts without interesting detail.
You're clearly a storywriter; you just need to write it in a way that engages the reader more.

>>20232953
I've been reading the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation of Anna Karenina which has some really nice long sentences. Give it a shot.

>>20233882
Not that my favorite authors are for everybody, but Philip K. Dick, Kurt Vonnegut, Harlan Ellison, and H.P. Lovecraft, in no particular order.
I have a thing for wild ideas and fantastic worlds.

>>20233867
>I couldn't even imagine J.R.R. Tolkien writing his character-heavy epics if he was merely self-inserting repeatedly. Can you?
He's already established that he can't imagine that.

>>20234014
Right.
I was just trying to get him to expand his vision, to show him he had a limitation he was unaware of, one not necessarily shared with others.
You know...to get him to grow.

>>20233654
Psychus this, Psychus that. You have to learn to write where you are not making everything in terms of what your character is doing and seeing.

And as the other anon said, there's no reason to have dialogue for simple greetings and goodbyes. You're not going to see that in published writing.

You managed to write a lot, so good on you for that. But you are better off writing short fiction so you can continually revise, improve and try again.

>>20233747
>"Your commas should be inside your quotes," the anon said with firm conviction.

Doesn't that depend on whether he's in the US or the UK?

I see the jannies didn't appreciate my OP image. So here's something more to those faggots' liking.

>>20234069
Hmmm...odd.
https://www.thepunctuationguide.com/british-versus-american-style.html
Although I'm pretty sure I've read a lot of British authors in my time, I've never seen them put commas outside of quotation marks.
Maybe I've only read the American editions. LOL

>>20234130
Huh...so they did. WTF.
It wasn't even a naughty pic, just a girl bunny.
Seems like an uncharacteristic level of prudishness.

anyone read the writing of fiction by edith wharton?
(i've never read anything by wharton but) i stumbled across it and... it's great... it makes me realize how small my brain is and that I want to write well
https://www.26reads.com/library/75919-the-writing-of-fiction

>>20232953
Technically you can just use semicolons instead of periods so long as each new independent clause is related to the last. You'll look like a retard, but if long sentences are the name of the game, it'll surely be worth it, bud.

>>20233528
How does one learn to diagram? I looked it up and it seemed more complicated than I thought it would be.

>>20233956
Okay, thanks. I was also going to try McCarthy and Faulkner, though with those two I need to pick and choose what I'm going to study.

>>20234182
I can do that, I meant good, legitimate, meaningful sentences.

>>20234181
Ugh. Trying to read this, but it comes across as a graduate student in Humanities trying to sound pretentious.

>>20232938
>i'm sure you know a few people who talk wildly differently
H-haha...

Is it okay to write the story of characters I envisioned a long time ago? Or have they expired?

>>20234270
Only one way to find out.

>>20232665
Christmas if he had to pick one. He has great childhood memories of family joy on Christmas. He doesn't look forward to it much now though

Is it weird to write out your personal fantasies into short stories?

>>20234349
No...sounds like you'd be highly motivated.
It also may prove therapeutic.

>>20234359
It's sometimes too pathetic to even finish properly if im being honest

>>20234364
Still, may as well do it.
You lose nothing by doing so.

>>20234349
I dont think so. What's crazy if you're on the cusp of fulfilling a fantasy for the rest of your life and back out each time from disbelief and anxiety.

>>20234490
In the case of my fantasy writings its mostly about women

Had something and i lost it, if you know what i mean

>>20234514
Have you read the works of Fitzgerald? I don't just mean The Great Gatsby

>>20234532
No actually, why do you ask?

>>20234551
That's very much what is oeuvre is about. You might relate.

>>20234514
So you're naturally a romance author, and you don't know whether to pursue it?
Dude...do it! Romance novels sell really well!

>>20234555
Been reading to read him anyway, so im gonna do it

>>20234578
I don't write romance, just short little vignettes. I write a lot of random things, war, horror, sci-fi concepts etc...

Only romance stuff was about a suicide pact that turns into violent sex and a thing about hookers

>>20234587
This Side of Paradise is a masterpiece. It has his best prose IMO. Tender Is the Night is good too.

Any advice for writing action scenes? I started off this story knowing I wanted a big fight to happen at the end but now I'm writing it and the language feels stiff and boring.

>>20234675
A fight is typically pretty tense and fast-paced, so trying to put shorter sentences and more abstract moment-to-moment stuff can work. Elaborate on bigger moments, but you don't need a blow-by-blow.

>>20234675
I find fight scenes one of the best places to wax poetic. Talking a lot about impressions of just one of the fighters, juxtapose with some sharp action sequences, remembering that real fights are short and are less epic in word than they are in visual mediums. Then the fight scene is over.

Hey, I was that guy who did that Hero Who Never Lived thing (thing where the hero made a deal with the villain) a while back, and I wound up rewriting first part after realising how little it left for me to work with. It's pretty much the first draft of this new approach. The broad concept is similar, but I feel like the things I've done open it up for an actual story to tell now. Any feedback or whatever would be appreciated. I was in sort of a funk of getting into planning but I decided starting from scratch with a slightly retuned concept was a good idea and it seems to have helped.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ngGWfNWZ_ykPezuDyEcoPjFr2vcNSLYXYdqBH-VVUKs/edit?usp=sharing

>>20234675
focus on tactile sensations. gripping weapons, the smell of gunpowder/blood, noise and chaos surrounding. use those to intersperse with the action. keep actions quick and choppy. for sensation you can even wax poetic if you want

>>20234843
Huh. Unconventional. I like it!
Is that all you have? I'm curious where this can go.

>>20234990
I could post the other, earlier version that's only mildly similar to what I have already. I don't have anything down yet for what's next, but I've got some ideas in mind that I'm sort of letting build up. Tends to be how I write, I tend to create a scene over a while and then just sort of dump it out in an hour or two.

>>20234843
my nits. change the opening line
>The greatest hero - the greatest hero yet - prepared to meet destiny with a brief nap.
remove "his ennui"
>His eyes opened, showing a dull emptiness, barely taking in the sinister surroundings while he pondered his ennui.

I like it better than your earlier version because now the reader gets to discover along with the MC what happened.

>>20234843
So I didn't read your previous draft or post, but I'll do my best to offer crits.
Your first sentence doesn't pull me in. To simply say he's a great hero doesn't mean much, I don't mean to say "show me him slaying monsters or questing," but at the bare minimum I need to know why he's great. Your hook just isn't that interesting.
It's a bit... rough in general. You seem to meander and everything just seems a bit clunky. You have a lot of unnecessary words, tangents, actions, and other interspersed tidbits that could be removed to improve flow. Every word matters, if it is not important, there is no reason to have it.
This needs a lot of work. It's genuinely a bit hard to read and sit through.
Also, hit "tab" with each new paragraph. It makes it so much easier to read. I don't know if you're a phonefag, but tabbing makes everything so much better. I cannot read through the latter half, it is pretty much a brick wall of text.
Good luck Anon, not my thing, but I hope it improves and you keep working on it and improving.

>>20235007
Yeah that was my thought too, you're given a brief glimpse of what was previously the opening, and then kind of shoved into "wait what the fuck is going on". I think it's a little weaker on characterisation than my earlier one, but there's also less room for characterisation in what I've written so far.

>>20235018
Fair enough. I genuinely didn't even think about indentation but I suppose that does help with readability. I tend to have this problem of being a bit meandering with my writing as that's often just how it naturally comes out with me, so I will give it a look over and try to shape it into something more clean. I do think you have some leeway with a first-person perspective because it's more stream-of-consciousness, but I do get where you're coming from.

>>20232617
What are your overarching themes? For me?
>Sentience
>Purpose
>Conflict

>>20234996
Nah, I'll wait. I'd rather see the improved version.

>>20235044
Fair enough. As-is, it's too late for me to write much more, I probably shouldn't have written this as late as I did to begin with.

>>20235048
I wasn't expecting anything tonight. LOL
Whenever you can!
And strictly speaking, I agree with the other anons that the prose needs some editing and tightening, but I figured you didn't need to be told that.
The idea behind it was different enough that I let trivialities slide.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UoEbfz3BlmlvT1he2ZJtglccvBVfK0WwB_wtUM83NBs/edit?usp=sharing

Happy Saturday Night /wg/. I've been doing heavy polishing, and I think things are getting better. I keep feeling like the first leg of the story needs something.

>700 words in half an hour
God damn I love being a fucking writer.

>>20235263
Do you get paid for it?

>>20235170
I've gotten through 6 pages...too sleepy to keep going.
As usual, it needs grammar/punctuation/etc. fixes, nothing Microsoft Office's grammar checker wouldn't find for you automatically.
But at this point, I wish the narrator wasn't merely dead, that something else more unconventional was going on.
But not complaining...you have excellent narrative drive.

>>20235271
If you give me $14.99, I'll tell you

>>20235289
Sorry cannot do that But tell me anyway!

>>20235282
I appreciate the compliment. I also just learned yesterday that I have gone through life having no idea how to correctly use punctuation regarding speech/quotation marks. Also it's kind of funny that you stopped on page six, I'd be curious to hear what you might think of the next bit. But I'll take that as feedback about the pacing. Thank you anon and sleep well.

>>20235297
For $7.99, the secret can be yours! A bargain deal that won't last long!

>>20235305
Oh, hell, I'm on page 15 now...you really have a talent for narrative drive.
I also want to point out that I rarely get this far with an anon's writing -- I usually quit in frustration way before then.
Despite it becoming some sort of borderline tranny thing, I really don't mind, which is odd.
Even though this is an early draft, may I request that you fix your paragraph spacing. I get annoyed when I splurge on a paper copy of an unknown writer's book, paying extra for its length, only to find that so much of it is blank space. (I'm looking at YOU, Salvation On Peril Island!)

I need help coming up with a name for a thing in a plot I'm writing for a game. The setting has this kind of structure of satellites/computers that orbit planets. The satellites are kind of like computers "in the cloud" that store and update the memories and consciousnesses of beings 'subscribed' to the system. People are continuously reborn in different bodies but their memories and consciousness are downloaded at "birth" and uploaded at "death". Memories are placed selectively between lifetimes.

What do I call this system? Specifically the construct of equipment orbiting the planet in space? I wanted to call it Nirvana but this is kind of an obvious choice, and it also makes reference to a couple of other similar uses of the word in other books which I want to avoid. "Karma" is another obvious one.

Down with any suggestions, doesn't have to be Hindu/Buddhist-centric. This construct is run by an AI and is not malevolent or benevolent, it is generally indifferent, if that characterization helps in its naming

>>20235350
IndraNet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

>>20235350
R.E.B.I.R.T.H.

Reintroduction of Electrodialysis Brain Inhabitation Resulting Totalitarian History

I don't know you figure out a acronym

>>20235350
the obvious choice is Samsara, not nirvana or karma you dope.

>>20235335
Despite the way it might look, I promise that the themes that are going to come up and the direction things take emotionally are surprisingly in no way aligned with what you might think. Again, I really, really appreciate hearing that. You've given me a massive boost of motivation to hit things hard tomorrow.

>>20235350
Look into the Matrioshka Brain. It's basi

>>20235386
It's basically exactly what you're describing* somehow I just hit enter and it posted immediately.

>>20235360
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra%27s_net

>There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring

absolutely beautiful

>>20235378
u rite
u rite
I kept googling "Samskara" and it gave me some different shit, but I knew in the back of my mind there was "the wheel". Also this is kind of cool because I could name the AI "Sam" or something

how important is it for different characters to speak with a different 'voice'?
if everyone speaks like the autistic gentleman writing the story, would the imaginary read forgive that since every character still acts in a unique way?

>>20232617
And why was the OP pic deleted?

>>20235383
Good to hear. I'll check in.
Just mention "Paradisio" in the message.
Got to the top of page 19.
Dammit, I really gotta crash.
A whole day of middling crapola, and then you show up to wreck my sleep. LOL

>>20235414
Dunno...it was just a cute bunny girl...not even naughty.

I lost all motivation on chapter 3. What do I do?

>>20235412
I don't believe that you can separate action from voice. A fully developed character will create their own voice based on their actions, and vice versa.

>writing chinaman story
>doesn't know english
>this is over my head trying to have him interact with others

I need to reach a point where I can timeskip and give him some English speaking abilities.

>>20235412
It's a good thing to do, especially as you get an understanding of what makes characters cool or interesting to you. But "the audience" out there eats up 4 capeshit movies a year where all the characters have identical boardroom quip dialogue in between each beat of action, so you probably won't be cast into the fire if you don't do it well enough

>>20235488
use a 'bridge' character that's a bit more established in the area but knows chinese, maybe?

And now comes the *actual* hard part.
Which is actually the easy part
Because it isn't hard at all.
My insides have been quite literally turned inside-out
But hey, they were already inside-out when I got here.

...!
Boy, you look like you just woke up from a 4 year long coma!

>>20235412
I change the narration style depending on who is narrating. For example, the same action told from the perspective of different characters
>He didn’t know why he was staring at the thing in his hand, nor did he really understand what use it might have for him.
>I picked up the object and looked it over throughly. This would make a nice, useful tool for whatever I’d face in the future.
>Hurt. Not interested. Agony. Focus on goal. Pain. Knowing where to go

>>20235321
Whoa, what a discount! I'll take it!

>>20235434
Adding a fight against a giant octopus. Everyone loves those scenes.

>>20235434
>>20235604
Save the octopus for later. Have him fight a polar bear instead. Polar bears are the most vicious killers in the animal kingdom.

>>20235604
I could barely keep on my seat as a kid at those scenes in Tarzan

>>20235042
Interesting question Anon I never really thought about it before and now I'll have to go through my writing and see:
>Freedom (Especially in or Through Death)
>Isolation and Alienation
>Consequences and (Self-)Sacrifice
>Body Horror (If that counts as a theme), Unfairness, and Loss of Control
>Taboos and Forbidden Things (Knowledge, Actions, Etc)

>>20234044
Not that anon, but all you can "fathom" is yourself. Any Other you think you're imagining is just looking at yourself from a different angle. We all have this limitation. You're just pretending you can actually imagine another person in the depth and vividness of their own experience. What Tolkien did wasn't to fully realize Otherness as much as it was to provide surface behaviors, languages, etc., such that readers could fill in the blanks with their own reflected images of themselves. This is, incidentally, why you fantasyshits are so fucking tiresome. You consistently have the most shallow, superficial opinions and you all mate it to this facade of prim confidence. I have to remind myself constantly that it's average people like you who have come to dominate this general. Whenever I read a confidently stated opinion with no justification, I have to remind myself that there are people like you—literal and unironic philistines—who read nothing but science fiction and fantasy. What's most vexing is that Dick and Vonnegut in particular aren't stupid. They ask big questions, and are often bright enough to avoid attempting an answer to them. Yet time and again, anyone who name drops them shows no capacity or willingness to think outside the box... you know, no capacity to interact with these authors on the level that MAKES THEM GOOD.

I'm sure you retards will go back to sucking each other's dicks over your FUCKFUCKFUCK SHITSHIT magic dinosaur cyborgs and monks holding in the power of god with their battle prayers or whatever, but I need you to know that you're a genuine brainlet.

>>20235614
>Polar bears are the most vicious killers in the animal kingdom.
T. Wild Wild West director.
>>20235666
>magic dinosaur cyborgs and monks holding in the power of god with their battle prayers
Can I use that?

>>20235666
BASED devil trips.

>>20235569
Gay.

>>20235686
I know it's gay, and that's fine, everyones a little gay desu.

>>20235683
>director
Producer, actually.

>>20235695
>it's ok to be gay

>>20235695

>>20235695

>>20235695

>>20235735
>>20235695
>>20235827
Good lord, what has this board become. has this place always been such a cess pool or is this a new development? either way

>>20235042
>Dehumanization
>Longing
>Alienation
>Violence

Very original i know

>>20235350
If it were me I'd literally call it the Cloud and make no effort to dissociate it from what we have today.
But that may not be the tone you're going for.

>>20235170
Man, I remember you posting this a few threads back, glad you're still on it. I liked it then, I like it now.

Only thing I could really complain about are nitpicks at best, like punctuation and paragraph spacing like the other anon mentioned. You describe the scenes and 'people' very nicely. Good job anon, hope you keep at it.

how do i describe long legs? "his legs were as long as trees?"

an exercise on character and description. lemme know what you think.

The club was full with expats tonight. From behind the bar Mel could see clearly the white of their military uniforms. Sailors dancing drunk under the red light, tall above the sea of heads on the dance floor, swaying and screaming like drowning men.

Mel had caught glimpses of their naval base on the bus rides through the tortuous mountain road. A slab of grey on the coast, piers sticking out like spikes into the ocean. At night it was supposed to light up like fireflies but she’d be too exhausted after work.

The only time she saw the base up close was with a sailor who smiled a lot. He came up to the bar and spoke to her in broken Cantonese. She gave short replies in broken English. He wore a ring that night but didn’t when he took her to see the base the next day. They could barely understand each other so all he could do was smile and she would too.

A year later he was gone and so were his friends, and new faces came pouring into the club. Another year and those faces were replaced by younger ones. They would come here at night and find Mel still standing behind the bar, with one more wrinkle on her face than last year.

“Still here, Mel?” Jackie said without looking up from buttoning his waistcoat.
She checked her pager. Eleven o’clock, no messages. “Thank you, Jay.”
“Take care,” he said, smiling.

As the back door closed behind her, the sticky smell of alcohol gave way to the sour stink of garbage. The music dampened into muffled growls. A train screeched on a railway somewhere. Mel threw her hands into her coat pockets and walked under the bright Kodak billboard towards the bus station. It was starting to rain.

>>20235666
very based

>>20235666
thanks satan.

>>20235042
>Freedom
>Moral Relativism
>Differences in perspective / perception of events
>Body Horror
>Violence

>>20236399
>Mel had caught glimpses of their naval base on the bus rides through the tortuous mountain road
With how far out of your way to provide description (not a criticism here), I think this passage doesn't fit. I hate to trot out the "show; don't tell" meme here, but it fits. I'd prefer that you didn't couch the "torturous" nature of the mountain road in Mel's perception of it. It's a great opportunity to stretch your linguistic legs and go to town in a number of ways. You could, for example, detail Mel's journey through the mountains. It strikes me as a more interesting story to tell than what happens at the bar. What a reader (well, this reader) cares about more is how a character acts while traversing a mountain pass. How a character acts at a bar seems to be exhibiting just the surface level social behaviors. It doesn't really tell me much that I care about. Navigation of a treacherous mountain pass is always more interesting and more telling of a character's nature than is how they interact in social situations.

>>20236459
>>20236399
It's not poorly written, though. You've got a sense for the flow and rhythm of language, and I don't mean to give an entirely negative critique. It is a little too safe for my tastes, though—both linguistically and in terms of what you have chosen to show about your character. We are constantly bombarded by this kind of superficial, surface'y socializing. I think we all recognize its falsity. Taking this approach to characterization is like trying to build the top of a bridge first. If you want to show who a character is, build the foundations first. Show what happens to a bridge by giving it a shake; see how the foundations hold up.

>>20236476
>>20236459
cheers anon. just to clarify, it's tortuous not torturous. interesting take on the hiking option, but i wrote this after looking at pictures of bars/clubs around american naval bases in china/japan and i couldn't stop thinking about them, so yeah it's fair to say it's more of a description exercise than characterization. i just wanted to fit in a tired old spinster somewhere kek
>Show what happens to a bridge by giving it a shake; see how the foundations hold up.
solid advice, and thanks for replying

>>20236476
>It is a little too safe for my tastes, though—both linguistically
also care to expand on this? the last time i tried to 'go out of my way' i ended up confusing people

>>20235042
>Fate vs self-determination
>Acceptance

Just typed up a new outline about a man with schizo

Mind telling me your thoughts lit? I need to edit the story some so i'd love your thoughts

https://pastebin.com/PkQNQc3h

>>20235666
Wow. You are blind, you assume everyone else can't see, and you're really obnoxious about it.
Whatever. You be you.

>>20234208
Bump for diagramming.

>>20236702
I'll be diplomatic and assume this is a really rough first cut.
Baphomet is an ancient pagan fertility god, not the devil.
The dialogue progression (such as it is) reminds me of 2003's "The Room".
The plot sounds like it was taken straight from the Satanic Panic of the 1980s.
The copious spelling/punctuation errors gives me the impression you don't read very much.

>>20235042
Across all my books? I know I usually deal with some of these
>ambition
>unrequited love
>old age, getting old, continuing "the grind" despite great odds
>compassion
>nostalgia

>>20236738
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+diagram+sentences
I learned how to do this starting in kindergarten, so I'm not sure what else I can do to help you.

I'm stuck in this weird rut where I'm not sure if I should just make up a character's name or make it a subtle reference with an underlying meaning. Like say I'm writing about an alchemist. Do I give him the name of an actual historical alchemist or just some random made-up nonsense? I always tend to go with the deeper meaning but I wonder if it would be better if I just came up with something cool sounding gibberish instead.

>>20236758
This is a really rough first cut so don't mind the shitty diolog and grammar (I didn't go school and I have issues spelling)

It is an outline *not* the story its just a summary of the plot and not with the prose and the actuall diolog that would be written just the story (People seem to get this confused)

I just typed it up so yes it is really rough.

Also the satanic panic thing i'll take it as a complement

>>20236702
Hello, R*ddit!
>>20236633
>just to clarify, it's tortuous not torturous
I missed that.
>>20236643
Like I said, this is my own taste, but I prefer lit that takes more risk. Your sentence structures and word choices err on the side of simplicity and don't take many risks. I get the feeling that you're operating very much within your comfort zone. I'm only pointing this out because I could tell you did have a vision for the image in your mind and you wanted to describe it.

With respect to confusion in readers, I'm personally fine with that. Maybe you aren't, and that's okay. My advice would be to try becoming more okay with your reader not understanding everything—immediately, or even at all. Sometimes if a reader doesn't understand something, that's really on them. Try writing more naturally, and without restraint. If you stretch yourself and don't reach what you're grabbing for, oh well. All that means is that for that one piece, you failed. It doesn't mean you will always fail or that writing more naturally is bad. If you aren't restraining yourself, feel free to disregard this.

For how radical and nutty and schizo 4chan is in a general sense, the advice here and the people who give it are often extremely conservative, peddling surface-level writing advice you could just as easily read on R*ddit. If you want to, feel free to try bucking that trend, and realize that not everyone here who states an opinion confidently is always right, an expert, or even in possession of a fully functioning brain. All of this, of course, applies to me as well.

Good luck, anon.

How do you make a villain's defeat cathartic?

>>20236777
>satanic panic thing i'll take it as a complement
It was meant to point out that your story is highly derivative and unoriginal.
Keep in mind that I would prefer not to be mean.

>>20236784
By not just defeating the villain, but what he stands for.

>>20236774
Generally speaking it depends how much the names matter to your world. I'm horrible at names, but I try to make them at least sound like they came from the same world if they're made-up, whereas I'll go with more esoteric real-world ones otherwise, unless it's meant to be fairly down-to-earth.

>>20236784
It depends on the villain. The breakdown is a fairly key component of that catharsis, seeing a previously unflappable villain actually lose it and panic, etc. Alternatively, if your villain is meant to be this monstrous being, have it be afraid. If it's an understandable person going too far, have their defeat be met with either quiet acceptance or loud defiance. There's all kinds of ways.

>>20236789
Well the real question was what are the problems with the plot?

Thats what I was actualy asking what needs to be changed so it works better?

(Just plot wise)

>>20236795
For example, one of the villains gets their ass kicked by another antagonistic figure.

>>20236844
That's pretty robbing of catharsis, just by nature of it, then.

>>20236844
No, that's not what I meant.

>>20232617
Is it ever a good idea to expand a short story into a novel?

>>20234675
Unironically go for a blow-by-blow. That's how you get a fight scene to last, I learned this from reading countless trashy WNs that actually gave me better fight scenes than anything I read from the so-called greats.

>>20232939
>Maybe you need to explain what's wrong with writing scenes and stories in your head.
It's how much I do it. It's basically the entire story and by the time I sit down to write it's more about transcribing what was already created in my head and that feels tedious.

>>20236865
Sure, happens all the time.

>>20234140
can i get sauce ??
I love girl bunnies
it was already gone when I got here ... pls

>>20236778
great take, and good luck to you too

>>20232617
Worldbuilding serves the story. Story should never serve worldbuilding

>>20237006
And story serves writing. Prose should never serve story.

why does it always feel so pretentious and useless in here?

>>20237023
People want to experience the "literary lifestyle" but don't actually love writing itself.
Me personally I'm 440 words away from meeting my daily quota.

>>20237006
>>20237016
It's okay for different stories to have different priorities.

>>20237023
All writers need pretension.
>Let the writer take up surgery or bricklaying if he is interested in technique. There is no mechanical way to get the writing done, no shortcut. The young writer would be a fool to follow a theory. Teach yourself by your own mistakes; people learn only by error. The good artist believes that nobody is good enough to give him advice. He has supreme vanity. No matter how much he admires the old writer, he wants to beat him.

>>20237054
Spooky how accurate this is to how I feel.

>>20237054
great quote, add that with the natural channer disposition to dunning-kruger plus irrational cynicism and negativity and you get this wg cesspool

>>20236858
But it's cathartic because this piece of shit gets their ass kicked by a guy who's just having a good time

>>20237081
>irrational cynicism and negativity
Naturally, yours is purely rational.

>>20237081
>dunning-kruger
fucker i am the BEST

>>20236890
Post examples.

>>20237089
not when I am on here, that is the culture, no one is right, no one is smart

>>20237104
Bullshit. I'm more than happy to recognize smart, talented writing. I actively search for the spark of it and give as much benefit of the doubt as I can. It's just that, unsurprisingly, the vast majority of people are average. It's the nature of the concept. If you are average and have no ambition, this isn't a friendly place, and it shouldn't be. In every other corner of the writing world, withered and atrophied as it is, there is a home for the average person writing the average thing. I do my very best to foster a culture of elitism here, in the hope that eventually I myself will get pushed out by the amazing talent of anons here.

>>20236778
>Hello, R*ddit!
You're lucky this isn't Reddit! Otherwise I would downvote you so hard your Karma would never EVER recover! Then what would you do?

>>20237117
the problem with this is that average to who?
if you line up the entire population people writing even 100 words a day are better writers then 90% of the population.
If you compare yourself to the greats, then yea, you will be shit.
I would even say that the brazilians, indians, and indonesions writing with no grammer in english are better then 80% of the english speaking population.

>>20237126
>average to who?
You know it when you see it. I've struggled with this question a lot, which is basically, "How do you quantify art?" You can't. That's what makes it a pure art. That's what's so fanatic and borderline-transcendent about the discipline. No matter how many degrees you stack, or On Writing books you read (or write), you really just can't quantify art. When I say "average," I mean work you can take a look at and recognize as average. In the same way you can innately recognize talent, you can recognize the lack thereof.

>>20237156
sounds pseud, contrived, and in no way measurable

>>20237159
It probably does! But it isn't.

a good writer is a writer that produces 1000 words a day and is able to use hooks and build tension.
there.

>>20237126
In practice, average compared to the other people in this thread, more likely than not.
Art is not fully subjective but it's highly relative. Standards exist and they shift depending on your expectations.

>>20237173
Sounds like someone who writes pulp serials to me.

>>20235425
So there's something I'd like some input on. I really wanted the initial scene to feel jarring. Not just in the sense that there are demons (they're meant to be more bizarre in the sense of how casual they are than to be "terrifying" in any sense), but more in regards to being in a holding room and having this film of fear and guilt-laden sweat covering the protagonist's body.

Enter Amara, sizzling secretary type. Her charming appearance belies her pronged tongue, and she very much pours salt in all of the protagonist's wounds. This is all in an effort to strip away his ego and get him to accept her bid, however... I really want to convey the gravity and nature of the consequences of saying no to her. Do you think that this lacks that? I don't want this to feel like an easy decision for the protagonist, but rather an uncomfortable admission. This gets explored in depth later, but for now I worry that that core part of the character might be assumed on my part as the writer simply because I know what's in store.

Also, pic related is a color-corrected rendition of "Amara" a friend made for me.

>>20237193
sounds like someone who writes good fiction to me

>>20237173
>a good painter is a painter that produces 1000 brushstrokes a day and is able to use paint and build images

>>20237217
yea, you do that for 10 years and you will be a great painter
your point?

>>20237222
Didn't work for Hitler now did it?

>>20237227
Hitler was a quitter

>>20237196
Does your friend do comissions? I really like the look of that.

>>20237222
This is a common belief and simply untrue. Many people do their jobs 50-60 years but don't develop much at all after learning the basics, and aren't even interested in getting better. You need to do a lot more than just endlessly repeat the same motions to see significant improvement.

>>20233318
That'd be a pretty cool intro to a story about a guy learning how to live in hell. Why was he sent there? What kind of punishment await him? Is there any hope of salvation?

One thing I liked about the Dante's Inferno video game more than the book was that they created a character arc for Dante by showing how he'd committed each of the sins during his life as a crusader. It would be cool to have a modern version of that, with some dead boomer coming to terms with how he'd gotten fat, filled his life with meaningless possessions, ruined his children, bankrupted the country, bombed other countries to smithereens, destroyed the environment etc. etc.

I don't like the present tense, it just doesn't sound right.

>>20237260
Oh no, she just did a recolor of the already existing art to make her skintone gold. That said it's a really good recolor, original art is of a character named Synth by an nsfw twitter artist I believe.

>>20237193
Sounds like someone who writes for a living.
More power to you.

>>20237196
Hi anon! Glad to see you're back!
The initial scene is jarring enough for a first draft, as is Amara's offer.
Don't feel you have to solve all the issues at once. You have plenty of time to edit.
Perhaps you'll have an idea of how to improve the beginning once you've written a large portion of the rest of the book, i.e. had a chance to play with all the ideas.
I very much like the idea of Hell as bureaucracy. I figure it'd have to be.

>>20237227
Sounds like it's time for a meme image!

"What are you thinking about?" Ilona asked.
"About faith. How I lost it and Kristian found it. The hope he lost."
"What about his hope for a place in Heaven?"
"Fat lot of good that'll do him."
"You sound so bleak," Ilona said, hugging him tighter. "But I think you forgot something."
"What?"
"Faith, hope, and...?" she helped him, planting a gentle kiss on his neck.
"Love," he said with a sigh, kissing her forehead in turn. "But the greatest of these is love," he added, and in that moment all was as it should be.
This is how my novel will end. I tried translating it into English but it doesn't sound quite right. Hell, it doesn't sound right in the original either since this was my first crack at it but this is where it ends, dammit I want a happy ending

>>20237263
I believe anon is referring to a book called "This Is Your Brain On Music", which claims (with caveats, obviously) that you have to practice something for at least 10,000 hours if you want to become a virtuoso.

>>20237390
I remember reading something similar in an Archie comic years ago.

>>20237391
Is that a fact?

>>20237392
I'm 31k words deep I can't stop now just because of Archie

>>20237391
If practicing something for 10,000 hours made you a virtuoso, there'd be a lto more virtuosos.

>>20237402
10,000 hours is a lot. That's 416 24-hour days. Suppose you only spend 8 hours a day working on it, that'd be 1250 days or 3.4 years.
I doubt a lot of people are willing to do that.

How do you find the energy to write after you’ve wasted your morning jerking off and smoking weed? Also happy Easter, everyone

>>20237390
I felt like gagging. Cheesy cheese

>>20237222
You won't see any improvement if its just braindead repetition. I think the key ingredient is actually wanting to get better, which is then acted upon by practicing and learning from one's betters, i.e. looking at the work of others. If I just brainlessly splatter paint onto a canvas without looking at others' works or learning from books / theory, I doubt i would make much headway.

>>20237423
You've never been in love.

>>20237414
>imagine being a zoomer and thinking 3 years is somehow an unfathomably long time

>>20237427
I know I haven’t.
I wish I wasn’t broken.

>>20237427
Dude, it sounds like something a 15-year-old who just got his first girlfriend would write

>>20237437
Thanks, you got it.

>>20237360
Thank you!
One of the key elements to the world is that it's too big for there to be some bespoke theme-park element catered to each individual's sins or faults in their life. It's honestly funny to me to imagine the average meek individual cowering over a table going "Wait, so you're not going to flay me alive and force me to watch my crush get fucked for all eternity?" only to be met with laughter and kicked to the curb, told to "go get a fucking job." You are very much not special in Hell. That idea is meant to scare the protagonist shitless into accepting the closest approximation to something special that they're ever going to get.

The "In-Processing" center serves as a net to sort and ideally capture exceptionally talented individuals upon arrival, and to maintain order. Also to ideally add as many additional "cogs" to the machine, though it's not as much of a prerogative for them to ensure someone finds employment.

>>20237423
>>20237427
>>20237436
There was a thread for sadcringe like this...
>>20217421
...but it's archived now.

>>20237458
You will never discourage me. You will never demoralize me.
I hope good things come your way.

>>20235042
>memory
>identity
>guilt
>power

>>20237447
I remember something about new arrivals getting consumed, but at the point I stopped reading (still p. 19), I didn't see it developed further.
Are they literally consumed, i.e. devoured and annihilated?
If so, does that keep them from having to get a job?
You don't need to answer the question; it was just something I was wondering.

>>20237463
Sounds like you're feeling better already.
I wonder when fedoras went from snazzy detective wear to sadcringe incel wear. What a letdown.

>>20236399
here are my suggested changes

https://pastebin.com/QmhszPFZ

>>20237478
Hmm, I can't say that I know what you're alluding to. Though I did want to portray the world outside of the processing facility as very unforgiving and grimy. You're now immortal, from an age perspective, but likely the least safe you've ever been once you set foot outside that building and into the city, if that tone makes any sense. (Hell is basically Detroit +)

>>20237483
Do autists even wear fedoras anymore?

>>20237515
just to explain the major changes

1) In first paragraph, any time you are saying your character sees something, that's a red flag. If it's being described your character can see it. The fact that she's behind the bar is also stated again a few sentences later so the sentence is not necessary at all. Her name is also too early to reveal as we are not yet interestd in who she is.

2) Dialogue "tags" around dialogue are typically unnecessary distraction.

Other changes are minor and self-evident.

>>20237540
Perhaps I'm thinking of page 4, i.e. "You'll be eaten alive out there".
Not to be taken literally, I guess.
I'll read more later, once I'm too tired to write.
For the time being, I've got a novel that's up to 60k words, and a solid outline for what happens from this point on, and am keen to get the 1st draft completed!

>>20237515
added a couple of edits

https://pastebin.com/ZEJMLscB

>>20237420
I find that toking and fapping sap my creativity.
I abstain from both if I want to write.
Actually, I haven't done drugs in years.
But I remember sativa being preferable to indica when trying to write.

>>20237391
you're missing the operative part, and the part most directly relevant to the discussion. 10,000 hours of dedicated and purposeful practice. it is not just spending time doing a thing and hoping everything works itself out. you need to be pushing yourself. the 10k hours figure assumes expert guidance, mentoring, for at least a substantial portion of those hours. it is categorically NOT just "hey bro sit down and do this thing for 10,000 hours and you'll be great!"

>>20237420
you know how there's that social stigma about drinking in the morning? how the "acceptable" hour to start getting blasted is 5pm? try that. don't start smoking weed until you've been awake for at least 9 or 10 hours. you'll probably be more motivated to do literally anything.

>>20237798
I don't think the book makes the claim in the way you're characterizing it.

>>20237817
then the 10,000 to expertise theory is mentioned only in passing and originated elsewhere, if that book references it at all

Went to an art museum today lads. Highly suggest it if you need inspiration for anything.

>>20237926
I went to an art museum once and saw a tranquil landscape painting from the United States that was done during the Spanish Civil War and was blown away to think that something so serene could be captured while there was chaos and violence on another continent.

>>20237426
>learning from one's betters
kek

>>20237798
>The psychologists didn't see any naturally gifted performers emerge and this surprised them. If natural talent had played a role it wouldn't have been unreasonable to expect gifted performers to emerge after, say, 5,000 hours.

>Anders Ericsson concluded that "many characteristics once believed to reflect innate talent are actually the result of intense practice extended for a minimum of 10 years".

How am I supposed to find the motivation to write after you guys have told I suck and shouldn’t write?

>>20238188
Don't listen to the pseuds.
Also, read more, to get examples of proper ways to write.
And practice more.

>>20238194
I read two to three books a month.
Weirdly, though, not in the genre I write.

>>20238188
If that's enough to discourage you, you should be grateful and find another hobby. The impulse to write is quite literally a curse. There is no longer any money or fame or dignity in it. It is no longer culturally relevant. No one reads.

You know that trope in family sitcoms where the father catches his underage son smoking and has him smoke the entire pack all at once to create a permanent negative association with cigarettes? That's why I come here. I wish I could do the same thing with writing, but it hasn't worked. There is no escape.

>>20238214
So you people are assholes … as a favor?
That’s some prime retardation you’re sporting there.

>>20238214
Niiiice.
Now I have to figure out how to squeeze that into one of my works.
"What? You're writing SHORT STORIES! Haven't I taught you better? Now you are going to SIT THERE, young man, and WRITE, and don't finish until you've completed an entire NOVEL! Then maybe you'll learn!"

>>20238221
You'll encounter much worse assholes out in the real world.
The ersatz assholes you encounter here serve to toughen you up.
Life is pain, princess. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

>>20238221
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You would think the reading comprehension of the people in this thread would be enough to discourage any hopes in creating literature, yet I doggedly persist.

>>20238221
Not that guy, and I actually try to be constructive and never discouraging with all my feedback.
But I can't deny that writing is a shitty deal. It takes up a lot of time and mental space, and in the end I produce something that's just okay and that I can't enjoy myself. Executing an idea sucks it dry of all interest. The frog has been dissected. It will never move again.
I write because I have to, not because it's a good use of my time.

>>20238188
pseuds who don't write should not have any weight on whether you write.
One of the core truths to writing in the modern era is that there is an audience for just about anything. Have fun with what you write and do your best to improve to your own metrics. There will always be a select community that hates you and what you do, it just happens to be one person from this community at the moment.

>>20238268
They're probably hoping to be the next Andy Weir, who quit his day job after selling the movie rights to his debut novel.

>>20238302
This is me.

>>20238221
Well, it’s best to take what these anons have to say with a grain of salt. Most of them have read widely but haven’t written anything beyond poorly structured short stories, derivative junk, or antiquated verse. Their tastes also align with that stuff, so to give them anything else beyond that is to open yourself up to criticism.

>>20238302
>they
We're right here anon. You can ask us yourself. I write because it used to be cathartic for me and now it's a demanding fixture of my life. Fame and money would be nice and I do dream of it, but I don't go to the page trying to write something that will get me money or fame.

>>20238307
It can happen, right?
It just takes time and effort.
And writing is a better use of our time than just vegging out to video games.

New thread when?

New thread
>>20238450