/lit/ - Literature

Emilyanon here
I sold 7 books total!!! YAY!!!!

No one writes.

>>20203603
reading tags i haet:
>Time loop
>Virtual reality
close almost second is harem
Love to write:
>Post apocalyptic
>Magic

>>20203625
So you missed this epic tale?
>>20203055
>>20203397
>>20203573

>try to advertise on twitter
>follow, like, mass retweeting
>copy and paste job of "awesome!!"
>be as nice as I fucking humanely can just to get some book sales
>this is the stupidest shit ever
Holy fuck this better sell me ONE fucking book.

>>20203653
standing on a street corner and selling blowies sounds less degrading tbqh famalam

>>20203653
There's a fine line between marketing and simply whoring yourself.
Who am I kidding...no there isn't.

>>20203671
>>20203664
Who the fuck was the Meerkater that said twitter was a good idea? I swear 85% of them are bots, and of the last 15%, 90% of them don't read their tweets, or give enough shits. And the remaining don't give a shit enough to buy your book. I'm going to tweet to Elon Musk and ask him if he'll buy my book. If I get a single reply from him, I'll probably make money.

>>20203611
Is he implying that "Shitkickers" wasn't porn?
Because I have news for him...

>>20203648
Previously, in our epic story...
>>20203055
>>20203397
>>20203573
Richard suddenly zeroed in on a nearby TV screen. It showed cartoon horses, frolicking in a field, sappy music playing in the background. Somehow, it looked familiar.
Realization flooded over him like a concrete mixing truck losing its load on the highway. All at once, the pattern clicked, and he breathed a huge sigh of relief. This wasn't a gay furry club...it was a bunch of My Little Pony fans! He never thought he'd be so relieved to find himself surrounded by bronies.
His knees buckled and he collapsed into the couch behind him. A loud protest erupted from behind. "Hey! Whoa! Get off me! I don't swing that way, dude!"
Richard stumbled to his feet. "Sorry about that." Relief continued to pump through his arteries like menthol mixed with Jack Daniel's. He wanted to give the offended party a grateful hug, but that would take him in the wrong direction. He simply nodded to the equestrian fanboy and shuffled away.

>>20203625
I write, I just have to learn what I should write to make 2k+ a month

>>20203897
Twilight fan-fiction self-inserts on WattPad.
Emphasize plain-looking blank-slate girls being romanced by more than one hot guy at a time.
Or, if you're older, Nora Roberts style romance novels for sad wine aunts.

>first person present tense
Can I do the narrator’s thoughts and feelings in past tense while having him describe his actions the present, or am I retarded?

>>20203954
Just stick with one or the other, it's confusing to read otherwise.

>>20203625
No one *reads, writing gets posted every thread dummy

>>20203954
I've seen that used to good effect in the book "Oryx And Crake" by Margaret Atwood.
The narrator's flashbacks are in past tense; his current activities are in present tense.

Has anyone bought or read anything written here?

>>20203623
FUCK YEAH ANON

>>20203603
I'm going to post the prolougue to my novel, tell me what you think. It's supposed to intrigue so if it doesn't let me know.

Strawberry fields, Mantly must have heard some poem or song or otherwise pleasant allusion to strawberry fields. Because when he stumbled into town that first day, hot and utterly exhausted from the trek, yet already looking for work he thought, strawberry picker eh? Sounds cool, pleasant and relaxing.
Well it turns out it’s just strawberries that are cool, pleasant and relaxing, their fields, and the act of picking them are just tedious and hot. Not hard work, not really, just annoying and a tad demeaning. He knew the job was mostly for children and women, but he had a vague notion that the women would be of the…luscious variety, again, he was thinking of strawberries.
The women turned out to be wiry old things with surprisingly strong and nimble fingers. They picked faster than Mantly, which means they made more money. Plus they seemed to have a better time doing it, all the time chatting and laughing in their big straw hats. While Mantly awkwardly shuffled on his knees down the rows filling his basket with no hat. He didn’t like hats, for some reason. Plus as a young healthy man perhaps that animal vitality of his could be better used in another line of work.
Well now I know, he thought.
Suddenly he realized his basket was full. He looked at the sun, ouch, he looked away. It’s a bit past noon, only a couple hours to go. But now that he’d decided to leave, the prospect of three more hours of fingering fruit in the sun didn’t sound too appealing.
So Mantly picked up his basket, strolled down the rows to the wagon on the other end, dumped his berries in with the rest, picked up the tally sheet and made one last stroke. Then he lit up a smoke, as was his custom after each hard fought basket, and mused over the tally sheet.

>>20203671
>>20203829
>>20203926

Either I have a talent for stopping this thread cold...or you're all in Europe.

>>20204567
Mantly, eight baskets. Not bad.
Jenny, twelve baskets. He scanned for Jenny in the field and saw her in the back, a girl of seven but small for her age. She wasn’t even on her knees, just bending at the waist and playfully tossing the strawberries into her basket, occasionally popping one into her mouth.
Granny Buckets, twenty-one buckets. He wondered if she got paid more per bucket than everyone else did per basket, they certainly held more. Just now she was scolding little Jenny from across the field for eating too many strawberries, her method of scolding was to pelt her with deadly accurate strawberries.
Queer sort, Mantly thought, must be the heat.
He had to smile, and from here the field really was picturesque. The way the parallel rows strode right through all the rolling curves was somehow mesmerizing.
Granny Buckets was done with her antics for now and cackling with laughter, Jenny was laughing too but somewhat more nervously.
Mantly leaned his back on the wagon and took a long, slow drag of his cigarette to appreciate the scene.
Nice folk, he thought, nice field too.
2/3

>>20204573
He was ripped from his thoughts as a sudden, raw, roar of wind buffeted in from behind. It swept down the serene field churning up straw and a couple old ladies hats, shouts and laughter of alarm came from the field but to Mantly it sounded indiscernible. He was looking the other way now, behind, to where the sudden gust had come. Still far away, to the North, ragged gray clouds dragged and danced their way across the sky, casting uneven, dappled shadows on the farmland below.He could see the wild gusts of wind in the wheat, and the corn and the occasional stand of trees, all being whipped this way then that.
From the direction of the strawberry field, he realized, mixed in with the chatter of the pickers was the cawing of crows, a whole murder, now passing overhead, flying straight due North, into the gale, not away.
“Well, well, well.” Mantly said.
One last pull of his cigarette and he put it out, and he made sure to really put it out. Today was not a day for chances.
And with that he turned on his heel and waltzed down the road, heading for town, nobody noticed. He wouldn’t bother collecting the day's pay, Farmer Glenn could keep it for the inconvenience of leaving without notice. Besides, it wasn’t really for money he had come to this town.
3/3

>>20203603
The title for my book sucks. How do I pick one that isn't boring or "The Flowers of the Heart That Rage In the Field" tier pseud

>>20204605
Name it "The Adventures of_____"

>>20204605
What's the thing and how do you describe it
by Anonymous Person

>>20204605
Untitled Until Now?

>>20204567
>Strawberry fields, Mantly must have heard some poem or song or otherwise pleasant allusion to strawberry fields. Because when he stumbled into town that first day, hot and utterly exhausted from the trek, yet already looking for work he thought, strawberry picker eh? Sounds cool, pleasant and relaxing
This sentence needs to be reworked.
>Well it turns out it’s just strawberries that are cool, pleasant and relaxing, their fields, and the act of picking them are just tedious and hot. Not hard work, not really, just annoying and a tad demeaning. He knew the job was mostly for children and women, but he had a vague notion that the women would be of the…luscious variety, again, he was thinking of strawberries.
What? It reads all over the place with cool strawberries, then suddenly, picking them is tedious and hot, BUT children and women pick them. Why would Children and Women do a job that's tedious and hot? Then suddenly it goes to sexy women, and THEN we find out that women can pick faster.

I feel the setting needs to be better set up. I honestly have no idea if this is the 1600's, 1700's 1800's, 1900's? I need more hints.

>>20204605
Nobody knows what the fuck your book is about, how the fuck do we help you think of a title?

>>20204664
A bowling technician is wrongly profiled by an interstellar crime syndicate as a galactic tyrant and they have a tournament for the fate of the planet

>>20204680
Gutter Balls

>>20204680
What are themes? Also consider what titles in the genre or litfic normally sound like.

Setting: Long ago Devils that could control the elements plagued the humans in the countryside. A select few families would band together to protect the humans. These families kept to themselves in isolation and over centuries developed psychic powers many would consider unnatural to hunt them.

Premise: In the modern day, devils no longer exist, but the families of humans with devil blood have come together in the city where the wealthy psychic families reside so tensions are high. In the midst, there's a serial killer murdering humans with devil blood leaving a tarot card behind. Two teens with strange psychic powers team up with a half devil girl to put an end to the murders.

Thoughts?

>>20204657
Thanks.
As to the second point:
The character is implyed to have little experience with any farm work, and he had a vague idea that picking strawberry's would be pleasant.
The narration picks up with him musing about how he must have assumed it would be pleasant because of some fragment of a poem or song that he heard somewhere which presented the work in an ideal way.
The 'luscious women' remark was supposed to contrast his previous vague ideals with reality. He knew strawberry picking was a job for women (it is), but without realizing it assumed the women would be young and attractive. He only realizes he even thought that now that he's there.
>why would women do a job thats tedious and hot
They do though, irl all the time. And it's true that men rarely do.
t. been a strawberry picker

As to the setting, you'll cringe but it's supposed to be a kind of light steampunk setting. Similar to historical 1800's North America, but it's fictitious setting.

>>20204720
Sounds kind of similar to Percy Jackson or Harry Potter in the sense that there's a hidden world that we discover throughout.
I like that, but you should know it will always be cringe on one level when you have a (no doubt sexy) half devil girl.

>>20204773
When I say devil, I don't mean like a succubus. I'm deciding between the word devil, or demon, or oni. When I mean demon, I mean a monster that can manipulate the elements. Not something sexy. And the modern day humans with demon blood look mostly human except for when they use their powers.

>>20204801
Ok, are you going to link the demons to real world myth, religion and history. That could be a lot of fun, you could even dip into DaVinci code, Templar, Nephilim kind of stuff.

>>20204815
I would need to pick a culture for the setting to take place in. Different cultures have different ideas of demons I guess.

>>20204740
If you're going to have to explain it to me, then you need to rewrite your sentences. I learned a long time ago, everyone is an idiot, and you have to spell things out most of the time. You don't have to put
>He drank soda. It was coca-cola, it was fizzy.
but
>The sugar and fizz from the coca-cola quenched his thirst.
Both do the job but lets say
>He emptied the coca-cola
Okay? how? did he pour it down between some woman's breasts?

>>20204720
Concepts aren't really worth much except as a way to pitch your book. Execution matters. Sounds fairly YA.

>>20204720
There's a whole genre called urban fantasy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_fantasy
I suggest you review it before you get too far with your own addition.

>>20204567
Is it too early to critique punctuation and sentence structure? Because both need work.

Has anyone ever used skillshare or masterclass for writing lectures? Im curious about them or even just free lectures on YouTube

>>20204927
I'll put in more commas thanks

>>20200484
I end today with another 7,100 words towards my novel!
It's up to 54,300 total, and my existing notes should add another 20,000-25,000 once I can implement them.
That'll give me plenty of slack to cut out what isn'ting work.
I know I should be grateful to be employed, but I'm really going to miss writing all day.
Between a few projects, I cranked out a total of 38,300 words this week. That's just prose...I don't count what I added to my notes.
This is, by far, the most productive I've been with writing in decades.

>>20204953
Sigh...so close and yet so far away...

>>20204941
nothing a class will say that a book won't say better, Google and pirate my friend, Google and pirate

>>20205027
which books do you reccomend?

>>20204567

>>20205036
what are you trying to write? you should just download everything, it takes like 30 seconds, and then read it for 10 minutes, if you think it sucks move onto another book, there's so many books on this planet you don't have to commit to anything

>>20204913
Well it's either this gothic urban fantasy romantic mystery or a comedy litRPG.

The comedy sounds like a good exercise in setting up reader's expectations and learning to subvert them, but the gothic mystery sounds more... distinguished?

>>20205175
Well, do you wanna write that? Write it. Try to make it as good as you can. You don't need to write 'distinguished' stuff, just write what you want.

hey guys i need some help finding the author of a 'how to write' book i read many years ago. her big deal was that she could teach anyone to write through some really helpful random association exercises that loosened me right up and let me tap into my subconscious. i know this isn't a lot to go on but i really had an 'a-ha' moment while doing her exercises and have never been able to get back to that place.

>>20205438
I think you mean Butt Piss, she's a student of Anus Anus

What is the hardest genre to write and why is it Historical Fiction?

>>20205447
I think regular history is probably harder. Historical fiction is just fanfiction where the readers may be more or less autistic than certain flavors of fanfiction.

May Allah forgive me for abandoning the path of literary art only to become LitRPG pilled https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/51148/reborn-as-an-overpowered-minion-a-litrpg-isekaiLitRPG

>>20205475
Tell me how much money you make. And I too will join you

>
You lose.
Because if I lose,
So do you
And im a loser, baby
So why don't you kill me?, hahahahaha
you have no choice hahahahahaHaHahAGHaHahAhaHAHAhahaha

>>20205078
What did you mean by this?

>>20205511
Exactly $0. Started two months ago, realized the kids like the animes, watched some animes, ripped them off, then rebranded. Currently building up a backlog for the fabled Patreon bucks.

What's the best way to pass plot irrelevant time in a story?
>Weeks passed.

>>20205617
One blank page for each day you skip.

>>20205078
what the fuck is this trash

>>20204699
Fucking stellar

>tfw getting writer's block whenever I try to write down profiles for two characters that are very close to my MC
>tfw it only happens with them and nobody else

>1.2k words today
i wish to reference a song in the Inochian thought piece on spoons i'm writing.
Can i just give the songs name and who wrote it without actually directly repeating the lyrics and be fine for copyright ?

i felt like writing something so here you go

Glossy Purple-Green iridescence reflects from mirrored skin into endless degrading sand, plastic sand, like memory foam it softens under my feet. Styrofoam sex-machines surround me and my brain orgasms^n fleshy holes pustulate a thousand times in glitchy porn-mess; utopia of the senses forever. I have post-grunk-slurp-core vibrating through the implanted inner-cochlea speakers combating with the mechanical lowing moans of the sex-machines flashing at me in hypnotic spirals in the centre of my pupilscreen interface. All I can smell is sulphur. All I can hear is sex. All I can see is death. Suddenly a bright red and green flashing light begins to epileptically binary in my inner eyes, warning me that my scheduled output-interfacing-time is due, and I am going to have to disconnect. I take one last look at the infinite looks of interflesh sexual desire and I raise my hands to desperately pull at the cortex plugs.
Sub-zero gasps for oxygen, like I had emerged from a free dive to the bottom of challenger deep. The pop of the cortex plugs being removed from my trepanned skull and the long slurp of the wet cochlea implants sliding out of my ears are the most disgusting things I’ve ever felt. It’s freedom and orgasm and sickly-sweet abuse. My eyes flash bang into static noise as the moulded beige walls of my tiny cubicle room apparate into my consciousness. A slow grey fog erodes away, and I can now see my bug-ridden bed stained with semen and blood, I slide my body onto the one side of the bed that is not touching a wall and step off onto bony spindly legs that ache and stab into me a thousand times like eel spines. I exit the louisiananesque cubicle that is my living space to step out onto the hard concrete floors of the hyper-complex in which I live: Floor 2584 Room 34GAA. Far below the cracks of machine guns and Nestle© Heavy-Automatic-Man-Shredders® ploughing through hordes of flesh echo up towards me through clouds of CO2. they’d be better off just staying dead but those vermin of the streets the rats the hoodlums the ‘impoverished’ insist on coming back what a waste. the heated advertisement tube falls all the way to floor G on an agonizing 5-minute descent.

writing makes me feel physically sick

>>20205982
Don't be ashamed. No one here writes, you're just being honest about it.

>>20203683
i couldn’t handle it either, it’s a circle jerk of desperate authors retweeting each other and without a single one buying a book

im managing to still sell the same number of books without twitter (zero)

>>20205933
I like this. I usually hate everything, but I like this. Could use some minor line editing if you're serious about it, but I like it. I hate pretty much everything else but this is alright. I'm also not a fan of minorities, but this? It's alright. I like it.

>Setting: a reader is seated, or standing in a location whose precision is unimportant, and is reading a book
>Premise: you read the book the author has written; details inconsequential
Thoughts?

>>20203603
How do I do Dialogue that doesn't sound like shitty Saturday morning cartoon speak?
The story I'm working on isn't particularly serious, being fantasy crap but I'd rather make it better and less cringe.
>Inb4 talk to real people more
I would not be asking 4channel for help if that was in my repertoire of options.

>I take a deep breath, and my cock hole opens wide, drinking the smoke into itself and filling my bladder near to bursting.
>What have I done? What grows here upon my body? What cruel mekubal has wrought such a malformation as I should gather alongside friend, family, acquaintance, and be dashed hard upon the nearest rock or cobblestone expedient. I am become golem with no shabbos in sight. Never have I felt such regret. Never have I committed such profanity. This thing writhing opalescent at my pelvis is not of my flesh; not of my body. I should never have come here. I should never have entered the Tower, nor seeked employment, nor… nor should I have ever arrived at that place. I should have remained in… in….
>Remained where? What comes before? What comes after? Where was I yesterday? The day prior? A deficit of memory, perhaps. No, no deficit. I remember everything that was in perfect clarity. I know everything that ever will be. I know not how I know, but the knowing is itself unimpeachable.
>I want to shut my eyes and squint away the whole fucking thing but cannot. Every time my eyes open, there sits the freak-thing, the breaking-through, its puissance unwanted. I swear it winks at me in movements beyond my control. I swear its heat and its queer gyrations grow still inwards, reaching and grabbing at the flesh inside. To which cruel puppeteer am I marionette? Whose are the strings upon which I dance? You fucker! The eyes; I feel the eyes upon me now. Alone, at the end of the world, torn between two, three, more... I feel your fucking eyes harrying my turned back. Fuck you! I see now, and I see both the beginning and the end. I see the cycle, the departures and returns, from which one will never return or depart. I want no part in it. I never asked for this. Release me. Release me. Release me! Release…
>"Hello,” my penis says. Its voice is not one voice but many timbres and hues and baritone basses with ear-splitting harmonics, trebles that waver and blare and taper off into gravelly fry, lisps and sputters.

>>20206351
Have characters with semi-conflicting goals and differing personalities, who have to negotiate with their rivals and/or convince others to side with them?

I dunno, all my dialogue is shit and all my characters are boring.

>>20206360
Dialogue is always shit and characters are always boring.

if you had to re-learn how to tell a story, by reading a single book, which one would it be?

>>20206351
Real life is ambiguous. Nobody has clear intentions or a clear character. If you can guess what role a character has the first time he or she appears, it’s not a good sign. I like characters like Pynchons for that exact reason. They are all very distinct, yet it’s virtually impossible to guess their intentions through their dialogue alone, we rely on what we as the reader learn elsewhere

This is a small part of the beginning of a new story I am working on and I would like it if someone read it real quick.
What I feedback I am mainly looking for is.
Is the hook good enough if not why , does the dialog feel correct if not why and some gramma even though I know that it probably isn't the best. Thanks in advance.


No Mans Land, the vast space beyond the border, larger than reality and expectation allow, a place that crushed the ambitious and greedy alike. Only 1 man had ever conquered it and that mans name was______, the king of No Mans Land.
On his way to prison, before they could lock him away forever, a bystander called out to him.
"Hey king, what did you find there?"
"Hahah, what I found? What does it matter? GO and look for yourself. Find your own answers in that godforsaken No Mans Land…"
He then pointed his finger towards that endless expanse.
"and claim that throne for yourself."

Whenever I looked out to No Mans Land there seemed just no end to it. Many times I had gotten lost staring at that incredible place and whilst I was once again pondering over it's impossible reach "Still planning on going?" a voice appeared behind me, which almost threw me to the ground.
"A-are you insane? Of all people you should know that I often get lost in thought."
"Yeah, yeah sorry," she said with a giggle.
"You seem to enjoy seeing me almost tumble from the roof though."
"Ahh don't be that way, I just came here to tell you that dinner is ready."
"You could be a little more careful about it next time than,"I told her in addition to a annoyed sigh.
"I am comming down in a sec just give me a moment."
"Well, you better not take too long or the food will get cold."
She turned around and left, but before she closed the door behind her she asked again in a sad tone.
"Are you still planning on going?"
"Yes, I am"

>>20205617
Follow what T. H. White does. Sword in the Stone chapter 20 paragraph two
>Six other years passed by.
If it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.

You know what man, I've been doing a lot of thinking about what you said, and, I just, listen man, I've just been doing a lot of soul searching lately, and I've been thinking a lot about what you said and all that, and I came to a conclusion.
You were right.
You were right about everything. I should have known. I should have listened to you. After all, you always are.
I am evil. I am the villain. I only like things of the dark. Must be some issue with my soul, I dunno. Maybe I got possessed by a devil or demon or idk maybe I am the devil. Who knows.
In light of that, I've decided the reasonable thing to do is to block you on all forms of communication. facebook, twitter, discord, the works. You won't see or hear from me anymore man, and this time is for good, I mean it.
However, there is one line of communication I'm going to leave open that you may contact me on if you wish.
Grindr.
Why, you ask?
Because I want you to see it.
You're going to watch me destroy myself.
Every dick I suck, every cock that I let rub against my asshole, every little spurt and drop of cum I swallow and ingest, I'm going to record it. And I'm going to send it to you in video format.
And you're going to watch him become a monster.
You were right man, and I really should've listened to you, but it's too late for that now. I'm getting a text right now and I'm going to follow up on it and maybe I'll see you around, feel free to shoot me a text on here or just chat about anything, im always free.

>>20206351
Imagine your characters played by actors you enjoy and who really fit the role. Your dream cast. Close your eyes and take your time. Envision the scene as vividly and in as much detail as needed to really send you there. Now just sit back and watch your scene. It will sound awful because as you say it's like shitty cartoon speak but that doesn't matter. Replay it in your mind again and again and again. Allow them to drift from the script until it starts to feel right then write that down to see if it actually reads that way.
Also you can use this method to juxtapose your dialog with that of a successful author from your chosen genre. Switch back and forth between your passage and that of the the 'good' author and really try to pick up on the differences.

I just lost all interest in any form of literary fiction and just want to write a 15-volume epic fantasy series.
This bites and keeps happening. Am I doomed to just be another hack?

>>20206512
>>20206652
BEFORE POSTING, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE DONE, AT THE VERY LEAST, ONE SINGLE EDITING PASS. DO NOT JUST WIPE YOUR ASS ON A NOTEPAD FILE AND POST IT HERE. THE DESIGNATED SHITPOSTING THREAD IS WWOYM.

>>20204567
>>20204573
>>20204577

Not related to the actual writing, but please use pastebin or Jewgle Cocks next time.

Didn't you post this same thing in the last thread, or the one before? Either way, I think it meanders too much, and the pacing is kinda iffy. What I'd do is focus a bit more on the stimuli, make him talk about the green of the plants, or the smell of the strawberries, or their taste, and use better verbiage, have him comment on their texture, or how they feel cool in his mouth under the scorching sun. Have him talk about how green and verdant the fields are compared to the bare steppes of his trek, or the mud he had to wade through as opposed to the finely tilled and packed ground where the strawberries bloomed. Little things like that go a long way to immersing the reader. Oh and I know show-don't-tell is blown out and sometimes overstated, but use it, sentences like
>He had to smile, and from here the field really was picturesque. The way the parallel rows strode right through all the rolling curves was somehow mesmerizing.
are good, but can be made better if you use better wording and focus on the specific just a tad bit more.
> Still far away, to the North, ragged gray clouds dragged and danced their way across the sky, casting uneven, dappled shadows on the farmland below. He could see the wild gusts of wind in the wheat, and the corn and the occasional stand of trees, all being whipped this way then that.
This is better.
>Besides, it wasn’t really for money he had come to this town.
This sentence sounds weird. Rework it. Something like "Besides, it wasn't money he'd come for." or "He hadn't come here for the money, anyway." Sounds a lot better, imo. Brevity works in your favor when you're ending a scene and transitioning to another. There's a time and a place for descriptiveness, and there's one for terseness. I'd focus on your wording and pacing, but overall I don't think it's too bad.

>>20206683
I'd rather people post unedited shit like this over nothing at all.

>>20206709
If you care about writing at all, this attitude is completely nonsensical. If you care about helping people improve, it's the singular most retarded attitude to have. Part of writing is nailing basic grammar. Anything you want to say to someone who can't manage to write 300 words without making ten basic errors is completely pointless.

>>20206717
I simply find it entertaining to read these shitpost tier samples. 90% of these one-offs would be discarded immediately if they went through even 30 seconds of editing. Let them live as they are.

>>20206727
>Let them live as they are.
I refuse. I will hold all of us to a higher standard. I will continue doing so until one of you pens the next Ulysses or Moby-Dick

>>20206680
Maybe just write what you want and try to write it as best you can? Inb4 fantasy is..... le bad!!!
Just write. As long as you eat up feedback and improve you're not a hack. When you start fellating your oversized foreskin without taking into consideration any criticism, that's when you become a hack.

>>20206731
Are you the same turd who thinks no one is allowed to make money on their work?

>>20206738
>no one is allowed to make money on their work
You're such a fucking genuine retard if you unironically believe that's what I've ever meant. Are you allergic to nuance? At least now I know (>>20206727) that you don't give a shit about actually helping anyone. You don't give a shit about creating a community we can all benefit from or about creating an environment in which people who genuinely give a shit about writing can talk shop. I had the impression you're just another genuinely philistine bugman, but this really deals the deal.

>>20206749
Kek. I was right.
My intuition is so absurdly strong.

>>20206754
OK retard.

>>20206683
I made several editing passes. Seems like it wasn't enough. Honestly I don't even know what I am suppost to be looking for.

>>20204567
>yet already looking for work he thought, strawberry picker eh? Sounds cool, pleasant and relaxing.
>Well it turns out it’s just strawberries that are cool
>perhaps that animal vitality of his could be better used in another line of work
Your prose is all over the place. Do you want to write in a YA style, or one in which (clumsy) turns of phrase like "animal vitality" don't sound ridiculous? It reads like your diary desu. It's okay for characters to have a my diary desu tone, and for first person narration... though the latter is only really excusable in YA. You don't have to pretend to be Henry James, but it would really, really behoove you to have more confidence in your writing. To me, this manchild'y narrative voice reads like insecurity. Cut out, or dramatically reduce your usage of shitty filler words:
>just
>somehow
They don't serve a purpose except to give your narration an adolescent, wishy-washy feel of fumbling and anxiety.

Overall, I feel that this piece is exceedingly mediocre, and combines an overly-tentative sense of stylistic safety with a tangential subject matter. Take more risks. You seem to be resting safe on the lowest rung on the ladder. Reach higher.

>>20206796
Which one?

>>20206822
At least we have an editor worse than Editard now.
When he gives passive aggressive nothing advice he at the very least marks it down on top of the sample for readability.

>>20206796
Same here. Some guy told me I made grammatical error, but I can't find it. Grammarly and Google docs couldn't either.

>>20204567
You need to do a detailed review of commas/sentence structure as others say, and you need to read it aloud during an edit.

Needs a dose of similes/metaphors to make it sing.

>>20206693
>please use pastebin or Jewgle Cocks next time.
I second this

>>20206734
Second this as well, whatever you write just write it well. We need a new generation of fantasy writers now that we've lost Gene Wolfe and Le Guin. Everyone with taste is recying the classics as fantasy is just producing GRRM clones and Marvel tier YA shit now.

>>20206512
>No Mans Land
No man's land
>Only 1 man
For single digit numbers, convention is to write the word out: "one."
>that mans name
Man's. You're missing an apostrophe.
>>20206652
>I'm getting a text right now and I'm going to follow up on it and maybe I'll see you around, feel free to shoot me a text on here or just chat about anything, im always free.
>im
>gigantic run-on sentence
Admittedly, this is more just bad than it is grammatically heinous.
>idk
>dunno

>>20206876
>write it well
This is where people need prodding. Don't just write. Write well. What you write is less important than how well you write it. Nabokov wrote a novel from the perspective of a pedophile rapist. It's a classic. This shows beyond any reasonable argument that execution is what matters the absolute most. In an era of zoomers on cell phones and tablets, this is where people fail.

>>20206834
The first one. I know that my writing isn't good so I would atleast want to know what is bad and if everything is bad what is the worst. So I know what I should focus on.

>>20206899
Who are your favorite authors?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UoEbfz3BlmlvT1he2ZJtglccvBVfK0WwB_wtUM83NBs/edit?usp=sharing

Making progress, naming characters is difficult. Pic related was the inspiration for a character I've named Thatcher.

>>20206230
damn means a lot lol, yeah this is the first draft of the story and so far i've written around 20k words

>>20206854
>>20206796
>>20206899
Just ignore the pseud. This guy has made a name for himself this past month with his autistic screeching fits.

>>20206962
>t. man who just wants people to post garbage for his personal amusement
Source: >>20206727
He's by far the worst shitposter in this thread.

>>20206966

>>20206959
If I were to offer one bit of criticism, it'd be to try to be a tiny bit more discriminating in which turns of phrase earn their place.
>>20205933
>apparate into my consciousness
This one rubs me slightly the wrong way, for example. It's nice to see a bit of talent and ambition blow through every once in a while, though. Don't lose your voice, anon, and good luck.

Petition to add a thread prompt section to the OP.

>>20206904
I don't really have a favorite.

>>20206995
Find them, then. This is a hot take, but a writer needs strong opinions and strong tastes. You need to know what you love and hate in writing. Like and dislike aren't strong enough. Like and dislike create milquetoast writing nobody will really care about, because they come from a person who doesn't care enough to love and hate.

Read more; write more. Both are equally important, and there is no shortcut to either.

>>20206897
What path do writers take to write well? Do they analyse great writers, is it a matter of intentional practice and self-critique, or do they just keep writing steadily?

I want to write what I like to read, but there's a problem. Not only do I not consciously understand why I enjoy a piece of literature, I don't even know whether the author could explain what he or she was doing. Writing is creative, and creative things have to be taught rather than explained, but unlike drawing or painting I don't know of any lesson plan for learning to write well. /wg/ just throws beginners a handful of book recommendations and says "Go read more!"

>>20206982
i see, once i finish the first half of the planned thing i'll go back through it and edit it now keeping in mind your crit i knew that some of the ideas weren't getting across as succinctly as i needed them to be but this is really handy for that thanks

I can’t wait to write today.
I don’t have work today.
But I’ll do a lot of work today.
After I find some bussy to slay!

>>20207025
This is the underlying "problem" of art in general. I came over to writing from guitar street I smoked my wrist beyond repair, so that's kind of the superstructure of my approach to writing. In guitar, it's actually fairly easy to lay out a plan by which you can train your fingers to move in certain ways. You can fill your brain full of theory. But there is still the issue that these exact same approaches create such a broad array of different players. Some guys, despite all the practice they can fit into a day, never really progress beyond knowing which scales to run up and down over which chords. Some guys learn to speak guitar as their native language.

My own theory is that taste is the X factor. It's how much different art you're exposed to, how deeply you can appreciate it, how strongly you have that intuitive sense of good vs. poor taste in others. I think it's based on discrimination, and in having an extensive internal library of the things you care about in your field. That is, the things you love and the things you hate.

This is the "read more" part. You can't develop that without reading both broadly and deeply. It's just not possible.

>>20207042
>guitar street I smoked my wrist beyond repair
guitar SINCE I smoked my wrist

>>20207018
This might sound strange but how am I suppost to get better in writing if I am unable to see my own faults, because from my view there aren't any.

>>20206693
Thanks, I'll post something with pastebin next time. I have some fragments written out that I need to knit togethor.
I think part of the reason that the descriptions are lacking is that I was trying to show the character of Mantly. He's supposed to be a bit like a Forest Gump (not quite though). Simple minded, with amusing inner monologues and he gets into mishaps. Yet he's well intentioned, has courage, and can have moments of insight.
But I'll figure out ways to show that aswell as take your advice.
>>20206822
>animal vitality
was supposed to be italiscized, meant to be taken a bit sarcastically.
Thanks for the response though.
>>20206876
10/4

Can some anons who use Kindle Unlimited give some more practical numbers for how much you make on average for a given amount of pages read? Amazon's vague hypotheticals of "you might make this much or you might make that much" aren't very helpful in comparing different platforms.

>>20206680
What got you interested in literary fiction in the first place?

>>20206897
It's part of a broader internet era culture warp but I also blame the internet "writer culture" as well which often leads people down weird paths (it did for me at least). Word count is king, endless talk of tropes, obsession with 3 act, 5 act, pinch point structures.

>>20207025
The things that I feel help me improve:
>rejecting shit advice I was given and learning to using "telling", passive voice, adjectives, and adverbs appropriately
>reading everything aloud in an edit pass to improve sentence flow/word choice
>Reading good writing across genres and seriously thinking about how it works at the paragraph to paragraph level
>self-critique - rewriting a single chapter 1 of a failed book from scratch 5+ times was probably the most educational thing I ever did
>outside critique - because you will always miss things, but take the opinions of others with a grain of salt

>>20207097
Reading it. But it's just not what I've got in me

>>20207123
Write what you want to write. Don't feel bad about dropping literary fiction in favor of fantasy if that's what suits you better. Being a hack is defined less by what you write than by how you write it, so write fantasy and write it well.
At the same time you can make your fantasy epic as literary or as non-literary as you want. If your skills only reach so far then you still won't have fallen short.

>>20207208
Okay. Thanks for the encouragement.

>>20207049
It doesn't sound strange at all because it is literally and precisely the point I'm trying to make, over and over and over again. You don't know what's wrong with your writing if you don't have enough taste to see it. You don't develop tastes without reading. A lot. See my post here >>20207042, on the "X factor" in writing. This is an unsatisfying answer, I know. It might seem like a cop-out when someone just tells you to read more. The problem is that it's really not. Granted, MFA professors and entire degree programs would be out of a (paying) job, but it really is the case that writing fiction is an autodidact's sport. Nobody in the history of literature has ever been "taught" to write. They have only learned.

>>20207049
I see nothing but flaws in my writing. I write thing and reading it back every sentence with more than five words has to be changed because it just doesn't work AAAHHHH

>btw, your synopsis must be 1 page
>ok, I can do that, i think
>1 page double-spaced at size 48 font and please make sure to include the entire story with all plots and twists

some of these lit agencies can suck my dick.

>>20207234
I always liked writing much more than reading. I just feel like my writing is not my own anymore after I read too much.
Can I even improve if I only write what I want to?

>>20207321
They only read the first 8 words and make their decisions based on that.

>>20207321
Find a gay/black/woman/trans to serve as your public face, for a percentage of the profits from your writing.
The doors will open for you like never before!

>>20207355
can you get better at cooking food if you don't eat? can you get better at playing music if you can't hear? beethoven went deaf, sure, but he'd been voraciously producing and consuming music for his entire life. i could go on, but i'll spare all of us my pedantry. the answer is a pretty resounding "no." no, you can't improve if you don't read.

>>20207355
I heard that the biggest predictor of high-level chess skill is not your instructor or how much you practice but how much time you spend studying old games. I don't know for a fact that the same applies to writing, but it's suggestive, don't you think?
A great writer spends hours slaving over a page and learns a little, and then you can lap up much of what they learned in much less time than that. You do need to write to put it into practice and to know what to look for, but you can't rely on it for all your learning. It's just too inefficient.
You should write what you want, but you should want to get out of your comfort zone. If you read something great, shamelessly imitate the aspects that speak to you and see how you like it.
Don't worry about authenticity. Write what works and what inspires you and you'll assemble your own voice.

>>20207433
I guess thanks for answering all my question. Maybe I will make something out of it.

>>20206652
i liked it

>>20205553
>anon posts an example of someone using unnecessary filler and not getting to the point
>get asked what they mean by this

>>20207433
I wish I actually made time for reading in my personal life.

Tabethany. My love. My life force. You always want the best for me. Yes. You always strive to make me a better version of myself. Which is exactly what I wanna be. Me, but better.

>>20208242
The Unbearable Whiteness Of Being

>>20208242
His life force? Oh my God did Becky marry an incel?

>>20208242
>>20208343
delete

>>20208343
No, a beta cuck

>>20203954
My story has three narrative layers.
1: the narrator in the present moment, taking about the past events in the past tense.
2: the narrator in the past, describing the events as they happen in the past tense.
3: the narrator in the moment, reacting directly to the events or dialogue in the present tense.
If the reader is too much of a pleb to make sense of it, they deserve their confusion

>>20208535
>2: the narrator in the past, describing the events as they happen in the past tense.
you mean as they happened in the past tense, right? if the narrator is in the past describing events that to him are contemporaneous, that doesn't make any sense at all.

>>20208541
>past tense
*as they happened in the present tense, from the perspective of the past

>>20208535
>2: the narrator in the past, describing the events as they happen in the past tense.
the flashbacks have flashbacks. you may want to work on that

>>20208535
Good luck with that marketing plan.
My fiction writing consistently evaluates as 5th-grade level or below (i.e. Microsoft Word's algorithm), no matter what the subject.
That not only gives me a wider potential audience, but avoids frustrating my less-attentive readers.

>>20208554
Can you post some of your fiction writing? I'd love to see it!

>>20208554
>My fiction writing consistently evaluates as 5th-grade level or below (i.e. Microsoft Word's algorithm)
>i.e. Microsoft Word's algorithm
>i.e.
>id est
>that is
i feel pretty fucking unsurprised that you write at a fifth grade level. what i'm surprised about is that you seem to be proud of it.

>>20208583
There's no reason to alienate your audience.
>>20208561
https://old.reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/

>>20204567
I would consider cutting a lot of the fat in your prose. It feels overwhelming at times and very indirect. Less is usually more.

Okay, post em boys.

>>20208616
>There's no reason to alienate your audience.
what if you aren't a fifth grader? what if the way you naturally talk and think and the things you want to write about might (oh no!) alienate someone. you are, for example, alienating me by writing something a fifth grader could write. aren't you supposed to write the thing that doesn't alienate your audience?

or, perhaps, is there some kind of ulterior motive? maybe you don't care about alienating your audience all that much. maybe there are certain demographics of people you don't mind alienating. i'll cut the bullshit and say that i know you don't mind alienating me. when i say that, trust me, i'm not taking offense. i doubt you are capable of writing something that DOESN'T alienate me. point being, stop being so fucking full of shit. if you write for fifth graders, why the actual fuck are you trying to parade your shit around here? go back to r*ddit.

>>20208641
>109 paragraphs
>223 sentences
>2.1 sentences per paragraph
>17.7 words per sentence
yikes. you have too many commas and not enough hard breaks, I'd say.

>>20208641
Very nice!
I didn't save the screen shot, but my (so far only) novel came in with a Flesch Reading Ease of 75.9, and a Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level of 4.8.

>>20208647
You're completely missing the point (deliberately, I suspect, so you can maintain your pointlessly venomous tirade).
I don't deliberately try to write at a 5th grade level; that's just how it comes out naturally.
I'm not trying to write for 5th graders; I'm trying to make my writing accessible.
If the reader doesn't need to strain themselves, they're more likely to finish it, and even like it.
If other readers are anything like me, they're not exactly at their peak when they sit down to read (i.e. they're taking a break after a typical soul-draining week at their job).
Besides, there are plenty of grownups that barely read at a 5th grade level.

>>20208668
>I don't deliberately try to write at a 5th grade level; that's just how it comes out naturally.

There's nothing wrong with writing books for children. There are a great number of very fine children's book and they make no pretense of who their intended audience is. Therefore I'll agree with >>20208647
You're not writing for everybody. You're writing for children. Or, maybe in your case, adult children.

>>20208674
>adult children
Some are adult-sized children.
Some are adults that have been so worn out by modern life and day-jobbery that they're barely functional in their leisure time.
I certainly understand the latter.

>>20208672
If it makes you feel any better, my technical writing tends to come out at a 12th grade level.

For my ESL brothers here. Do you write in your native english and then translate it to english or do you write it in english in the first place?

There is a bigger market in the english speaking world so I've decided to publish my novel in that language but sometimes I have trouble trying to convey something that I could easily do in my first language.

>>20208770
Don't stress; Americans can barely speak English these days. They won't notice.

Anyone has some advice on writing poems?
It's somewhat enjoyable but I feel like I'm writing things that has already been done a gorillion times before, more so than other forms of fiction.

I want to write a gothic serial killer thriller. How do you guys feel about protagonists with multiple personalities? I think it could make for an interesting dynamic. Have a feeble, gentle alter ego transfer to a highschool to investigate the local murders from the perspective of the students, and have the real personality be a cold, ruthless college student who looks for the killer by night.

>>20208770
I write in English. My native language (Dutch) has different vocabulary and cadence and stylistic options, and it's even relatively closely related to English. Translation would be more work for worse results.
Admittedly my writing skills in my native language have atrophied. When I do write it it comes out uneven, erudite but with informal speech style mixed in.
I do regularly feed idioms through google translate. Sometimes they're untranslatable.

>>20204664
>>20205440
>>20205516
>>20205655
>>20206230
>>20206369
>>20206731
>>20206749
>>20208583
>>20208647
Aw, our resident seether has only been gone an hour, but I miss him already!
Hopefully his mom will let him come out and play soon.

>>20208963
I dunno...it's been done.
I remember being really annoyed with the "big reveal" at the end of "Twin Peaks".

>>20208895
There's no money in poetry because there's no real interest in poetry. If you want to write poetry add it in as part of a larger narrative to add favor to the story. Songs, poems and rhymes always do a great job of making the story's world feel alive and it really helps to differentiate cultures. If you don't like this answer, sorry, but there's no money in poetry.

>>20208998
>>20209017
get a life, dude. touch grass.

>>20209017
Unless you re-tool poems as song lyrics.
Probably the best bet.

>>20209029
But our resident seether is just so INTERESTING!
Not banal and derivative at all!
I find myself anticipating his latest boneheaded misinterpretation!
I can't be the only one!

>>20209040
>derivative
of what, exactly?

>>20209008
That's not really the big reveal tho. I'm thinking about revealing it partway through the story. It's mostly used to show the conflicts of two people with two different lives, includes romances, inhabiting the same body. Also there's more to the story, like a city inhabited by people with special abilities.

>>20209047
> >derivative
>of what, exactly?
I said you WEREN'T derivative.
That's exactly the kind of boneheaded misinterpretation that keeps me coming back for more!

>>20209069
this is the lowest, basest form of antagonism possible.

>find a lit agent to submit to
>as part of their submission guidelines they want a detailed synopsis of the entire plot from beginning to end in 250-300 words
are these people fucking high?

Why are you even bothering to reply to the avatarfagging pepe poster? He doesn't write.

>>20209069
And coming from a true expert in the field, I'm absolutely flattered!

>>20209087
Yes...because there's only ONE person, in the history of 4chan, that posts with Pepe memes.
It makes me SO unique.
Here, have a new Pepe I picked up today.

And now he's samefagging talking to himself.

>>20209108
Missed the mark again!
Wow...you're so consistently wrong, you could probably get elected to high political office in America.
I can only sit and stare in utter fascination.
You complete me.

I wonder why no one shows you this kind of love.

can we keep the thread on the topic of writing and not this gay antagonism towards each other

>>20209163
That's what I was trying to do.
It's pretty clear there's only one seether on here, spewing pointless venom.
He's not contributing to the conversation, yet he sticks around like chewing gum on the sole of my shoe.
It's his choice to keep up his disgraceful conduct.

UPDATE: Oooh, I was temporarily blocked for "troll posts".
So not only is he a seether, but he can't stand up for himself...he had to go run and tell his mommy.
As if it wasn't obvious he was a bully and a coward.

>>20204567
give up

>>20209234
>He's not contributing to the conversation, yet he sticks around like chewing gum on the sole of my shoe.
what are you talking about? i absolutely don't filter myself when i'm giving critique. i take full ownership of that. i should, since i do it on purpose. i intentionally spare writers' feelings as little as possible, because anything i say at an early point in the drafting process will hurt much, much less than the first reviews coming in. i would wager that at some point, i gave one of your pieces a scathing piece of criticism, and now you want to turn the whole thread into a pit of garbage because you can't handle someone saying words of meanness to you.

again, grow up. stop shitposting. go back.

>>20209245
Not constructive.
>>20209250
Your "critiques" are pointlessly abrasive and contain no real feedback.
You are an unimaginative troll.
You're not fooling anyone.

>>20209274
You unironically used the word "cool" in your prose. Give up.

>>20209274
>pointlessly abrasive
i literally just told you the point. the point is in the words i just wrote to you. they were written in direct response to the idea that i am not "contributing to any conversation." these words describe the point, which you are calling pointless, for some reason i can't understand. in what world does a point constitute a not-point? are you retarded?

>>20209274
Jason you're not fooling anyone either. If you think we're that fucking stupid you're in another planet of retardation. Tough criticism is a gateway to the real problems of a piece, not "trolling". There's no pointless abrasion to most the criticism here anyways.

>>20209288
>not waxing eloquent about a cool, clear winter night
ngmi

>>20204112
Read some folks on Royalroad.

>>20209297
Retard. That's a different usage of the word cool.

>>20209295
Resorting to the Chewbacca defense so soon?
Tell us you're out of ideas without telling us you're out of ideas.

>>20209296
I guess I'll have to resort to point-by-point analysis of your spewing, so you can see how it has no value.

>>20209319
you are sincerely one of the worst shitposters on 4chan. it makes sense, since you are from reddit. for anyone who wants to laugh at this retard, just post this profile every time this guy starts spamming the thread.
>>20208616
>https://old.reddit.com/user/ulatekh/comments/pluf8q/hello/
this is his r*ddit profile, with his writing on it. he writes bargain-bin science fiction for fifth graders. hello r*ddit!
>verification not required

>>20209340
I thought this was that Shitkickers dude

>>20209341
i thought so too, but the reality is somehow even more grim.

>>20209340
So you're just going to blame random people in the thread? LOL

>>20209363
>LOL
come on, now. it's like you aren't even aware of what gives you away. anyway, trace the conversation and the replies, and it's pretty easy to see the commonalities in both writing philosophy and posting style. you forget that we're all writers here, and you have remarkably little artistry to it. try to remember that a lot of us have been around here for a very long time. i've been on 4chan since 2007. you're not fooling anyone, with either your infantile attempts at gaslighting or your weak denials.

just let it go. go back to r*ddit, and your updoots and the people who gave you this insipid confidence. sure, you could just download more frogs from whatever website was linked to you on discord or twitter, but you don't fit in here in every possible way. you really need to go back, you deep, dark purple-skinned, monkey-lipped gorilla NIGGER retard.

>>20209340
>>20209380
Holy hell reading his posts it's beyond a doubt, identical post formatting. I'm saving a few copies of this trannies shit writing in case it keeps hanging around.

I salute you anon for your hard work and dedication in seeking the source of this evil.

>>20209380
I could be Jason.
I could be ulatekh.
I could be the Manly strawberry guy.
Or all of them!

FYI, nice ban. Once again, you hide behind authority.

>worst shitposters on 4chan
You truly lack self-awareness.

>>20208641
Rate my two projects. Left is done and going to beta readers soon. Right is in progress.

>>20209464
Rate what? These are just word counts

>>20208656
I was a bit shocked how low my paragraph sentence was but don't want to overreact as it's just my first of 5 completed chapters and I got good feedback (I'm Elder Scrolls anon from a few threads back). I do tend to have short paragraphs but perhaps it's acceptable in my style? Also I have character thoughts broken out in their own lines so idk if that skews the numbers.

>>20208668
Interesting to know your scores, it's my first time checking so curious what "normal" ranges are.

>>20209464
Go under options -> Proofing -> enable grammar and Reading Level

>>20209464
>every 20k words means around 50 pages
Never realized I was reading 600 pages of fanfic whenever I started reading a new one.

>>20208343
Almost undoubtedly.

>>20209503
>>20209468
I've got that good update bros. I use a lot of dialogue.

>>20209605
>100k words
>still not done
What are you even writing?

>>20209380
Now I'm wondering if he critiqued my work, because I got a lot of the same criticisms of unhelpful advice

>>20209636
The second half of a book. The first half finished around 85k. I might end up splitting them into two. The long term goal was 7 books, but that's very loose right now.

>>20209605
what're we supposed to do with these statistics?

>>20207234
The reason I don't like "read more" as advice is because there's a difference between reading for pleasure and reading critically. It's like /fit/ saying "eat less." The advice is technically correct, but in order to eat less you need to eat differently, and in order to get anything out of reading you need to read differently too.

There's also a feedback loop between reading something and then putting it into practice in your writing that doesn't get mentioned. Critical reading is not as useful if you're not applying what you've learnt to your own work, because you'll forget your insights if you don't put them into practice.

I think it would be more helpful if the advice was more specific, e.g. "read the first chapter of a novel by your favourite author and try to recreate one of your own stories in that style," or "do the same thing as that anon who was writing one paragraph in six different styles."

Does anyone know, on average, what percentage of royalroad readers become patreon subscribers?

>>20209668
how about you focus on producing something worthwhile first you whore?

>>20209667
Well, reading for pleasure while just keeping the more analytical mind switched on is fine too. If you ever come across a line that just makes you stumble on it, look back and ask why. If there's some plot threads or characters that don't sit right, ask why, etc. You can easily do an after-reading review to break it down properly into its components.

>>20209647
I'd argue the Flesch Kincaid stuff isn't terribly useful. Basically its all generated by number of paragraphs with regard to number of sentences with regard to number of words per sentence with regard to number of characters per word. Its nice to have a metric, I guess, for people who like metrics, but ultimately I don't really see its utility. If you took the same piece of writing and reduced the number of paragraphs by half the number would go up.
Knowing the individual pieces: number of paragraphs, number of sentences and wordcount is slightly more useful, I suppose.

>>20209668
Its probably roughly equivalent to free players vs paypigs for mobile games. ~2%.

>>20209692
Because in order to produce consistently I need to make enough to do it full time. That means figuring out if I'll need a backlog of six months of updates, a year, or somewhere in between.

>>20209647
>>20209710
I think the grade level which is largely syllable based is more interesting than necessarily actionable (there isn't necessarily a right or wrong).

The averages imply a lot about style although they're just algorithms so can be wonky. But it's good to be aware if it.

>>20209605
Both books seem to be close in ranges. Same POV and style?

>There was a rickshaw.
Do I need to define what a rickshaw is or do you think readers would be familiar with it?

>>20209784
Yes, both third person limited with some omniscience thrown in. The first is supposed to be a little more comically long-winded, but I started writing it earlier, so my attempts at that length probably just folded over into my actual style as I started the second.

>>20209798
It's JUST uncommon enough that you could probably give a brief once-over description (man-pulled two-wheeled cart or something) but that also depends on your perspective character (if you have one)'s familiarity with the term.

>>20209798
Who are your readers? If you are at all uncertain maybe provide context clues before or after about telling the reader about little enslaved asian boy yolked to it.

>>20209798
They can Google it if they need to.

>>20209781
>Because in order to produce consistently I need to make enough to do it full time
Lies. Even if you write just 500 words a day, you'll have a 100k word novel and time left over to edit it within the year. You don't need anything except an actual interest in writing.

>>20206371
Donkey Kong country 3: Dixie Kong's double trouble strategy guide.

>>20209871

>>20209871
Such an incredible fucking game. First DK is worth playing through just because it's short and good but DK2 and DK3 are amazing if you actually try to 103% them or whatever the number is. Amazing. I'd put Donkey Kong on the Voyager plaque and force aliens to play it.

>>20209838
>>20209831
The way I see it, if they're going to be reading a historical fiction, they should have some background knowledge. Nobody reads about the Mongol wars with the Russian Empire without knowing a bit about the Mongols

>>20209860
One novel isn't enough to live on unless you're extremely lucky. My current plan is to have six completed and release one every two months because somewhere I read that was the best way to get Amazon's algorithm recommending you to people. On top of that I'll have a RR fiction running. I figure the majority who enjoy that will read my other works if they're on kindle unlimited. Once I'm bringing in $2400 a month, before fees and taxes, I can quit my job and write full time.

>>20209937
>$2400 a month
you can live off $48k?

>>20209974
Less. Self employment taxes are around 40%, and I'm allowing for 10% in fees. That'll give me a take home of $1200 a month, which is what I have now working under the table for minimum wage.

Had some time and did this. Hopefully it will be helpful to anyone wanting to go the patreon route.

>>20209668
>>20209937

>>20210009
Even at $60 a month he makes more than most published authors

>>20207025
They write. Then they edit until they are happy with it. It's that simple. When you read your own work, you see what the problems are and you solve them until you're happy. Rinse, repeat.

>>20208647
Fifth graders can read mass market fiction. I certainly did when I was in fifth grade.

The important thing is to know your audience. If you are writing for a literary audience (admittedly a small market), you can write at a higher level. If you're writing for a mass audience, then writing at fifth grade level is not a bad idea.

>missed the Boswell vs pseud fight
What a shame.

>>20210009
God damn Europoors switching , and . but thanks anyways

>>20209798
No, you never define things that already have dicionary definitions. You define things if they belong to your fantasy world.

If your POV character dosn't know what it's called, then simply describe it, how it works.

>>20203603
I've translated one of my poems into English, I require help from native speakers to determine if it makes lexical and grammatical sense.

I can no longer hear the sound of the grey sky's lament,
I mark down the days with my left hand on the right one.
Time is rushing ahead to an ever increasing extent,
Rather leaving me far behind the pace of its run,

Rather leaving me blackthorns to ofter fall into my lot,
Rather leaving me slumber, evermore lessened and dim.
The bottle is empty, it should be hurled out on the spot -
It won't ever fill a glass of sweet wine to the brim.

In my immured grotto the bells of the rushing clock's stroke
That are calling somewhither can be barely defined;
And through same reinforced concrete colored familiar smoke
Again my bones and the walls have been firmly aligned.

Hardly heavier than this smoke, so discarnate and light
Is this exhausted soul, gutted deep down to its very core,
That like a bird it dreams just of expanses and flight
Over blankets of fields, their colorful sight to adore.

Zero stands as a common denominator to life,
To life that is nothing but a black gaping hollow, destroyed,
Just like the stone that hangs on the neck like pain's knife
Can only pull deeper under the slough's freezing void.

Everything crumbles to splinters and pieces around,
And words are again falling down out of their place.
Each time ever quicker is closing itself the full round.
Each time ever stronger is growing the discord in pace.

The quicklime aurora of dawn is so eager to gush
At any moment already through window's black throat.
The bet with the hope is a mock that again will be crushed
By every new imminent sunrise with bitter and gloat.

Has the realm of this world even ever been otherwise?
Has the sound of her voice really ever existed indeed?
This vicious circle left to suffer and agonize
Can be envisioned only within a mute creed.

My body recalls only how the demise has begun:
With quivering needle grass under the sky's gnawed sphere
And a handful of earth on the wooden lid, the last one,
Whereunder I buried the stardust forever most dear.

Electrical current under the pulsing clock hands
Is this hell's cardinal torturer, butcher and tsar,
Who's tirelessly racing endless flow of the sands
Of time, that's whirling away from me my ginger star.

Does this sound apocalyptic enough?
I listen to music when I write to get the feel of a scene down, and I used this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQdSM3l8y3Q
>The rain only intensified as they stared each other down, the surrounding areas in ruin and the usual pitter-patter of the droplets sounding more and more like the fire of a gatling gun too large to be held by any military.
>These two were on another level compared to the others, to the point where it was like they had transcended physical limitations, barging into the realm of the divine in terms of sheer power.
>This place would not be left standing, regardless if the battle took 1 minute or 1 hour. Not a single brick would remain unbroken, not a single screw would remain undone, and not a single piece of glass would remain unshattered.
Meh

>>20210126
>The rain only intensified as they stared each other down, the surrounding areas in ruin and the usual pitter-patter of the droplets sounding more and more like the fire of a gatling gun too large to be held by any military.
This is great.
>These two were on another level compared to the others, to the point where it was like they had transcended physical limitations, barging into the realm of the divine in terms of sheer power.
This is anime.
>This place would not be left standing, regardless if the battle took 1 minute or 1 hour. Not a single brick would remain unbroken, not a single screw would remain undone, and not a single piece of glass would remain unshattered.
This needs more intricacy.

>>20210111
I noticed your writing is rather wordy. I'd help more, but I'm self conscious and haven't read in a long while.

>>20209245
see you next thread

just wrote my 2k AND gained 11 page views (and 1 confirmed read) off my newly posted web novel chapter.
kek, what did you do today anon?

>>20210317
Buried my cat. She was 13.

>>20210317
Played Portal Reloaded and thought about names for my book. I've really got to get my act together and get marketing material prepared, but I haven't played video games in probably 5 months and I've been wanting to play this for a while.
>>20210358
Rest in peace kitty

>>20210241
Yeah, I think it's a side effect of me trying to make a translation as literal as possible, similar to all the brilliant ones that kinda inspire me. I'm trying to get rid of this.
But, like, is it decently readable mechanically, regarding the English lexicon and grammar?

>>20210317
I sold 3 books to my coworkers.

>>20209234
>>20209250
This is the same guy having an argument with himself. We've been rüsed, had, gentlemen.

>>20210317
I'm sitting at 475/350/180 page views for the first three chapters of something I wrote last week, though some or most of those are probably bots scraping it. The second chapter was definitely weaker than the first, so it makes sense that it would have a big dropoff. Curious to see how the fourth and then the fifth and final chapter go in terms of views.

It's cool that I can see the views drop off based on my own estimates of the quality of the writing, and use them to validate self-critique.

>>20210160
I should probably mention this is sort of a pseudo deconstruction of some battle manga tropes.
Instead of a powerup, which the protagonist has gotten, being depicted as this triumphant moment or “You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry” moment, it’s depicted as a fucked up thing that has warped him into something that’s absolutely horrific, along with stealing his innocence, his kindness, and his ability to think rationally in one swoop.
It takes him a while to recover the latter two even after the state recedes, but his innocence will never return

>give up on my book
>20k words wasted
>Hours and ideas down the drain
Is it possible to resume another time?

>>20210609
No, you should give up writing.

>>20210609
Yes, you should continue writing.

Instead of publishing my work in my native language, I could translate it to English and reach a bigger market. Other than more competitors, what factors are there to consider? I am confident in my English skills.

>>20210794
Publish both.

>>20204605
Poetic terms are polysemic in an interesting way. Basically, they are like puns, only moreso.

You need to discover which word of phrase sits or stands at the convergence of the various themes and ideas which it is your work's purpose to express.

>>20206353
>What cruel mekubal has wrought such a malformation as I should gather alongside friend, family, acquaintance, and be dashed hard upon the nearest rock or cobblestone expedient. I am become golem with no shabbos in sight.

>>20204680
Just make it a pun. surely there must be a great deal of convergence between words pertaining to bowling and those which pertain to deep space interstellar this or that

>>20205475
Anything which you write which people enjoy is at least a little based, anon. Good job!

>>20206351
say it out loud before you write it down. imagine before you write

>>20206680
Anything that brings you closer to authenticity is good.

Plenty of people are touched by fantasy, even touched in their hearts

>>20207025
I think it's just a question of steady writing. Love always bears fruit after long enough

>>20210541
>>20210317
Where are you guys posting things that people read them?

My dream is to write something that someone ever cares about. Something that entertains a person even a little bit.

>>20210609
You probably learned something hopefully.

I had a similar experience.

28,000 words

[spoilers]here's chapter 1: https://pastebin.com/raw/DwtVVkxL[/spoilers]

>>20209937
I could live off fucking $400/month, but can't even make that much. If everyone who reads my story paid me 50 cents, I'd be making triple that already but nobody is willing to pay me shit, while some litrpg esl chink faggot makes 20k, what the fuck this is absurd, I'm gonna fucking kill myself aaaaa

>>20210941
Gosh even when trying to post it it fails and embarrasses me. Shameful offspring.

>>20208541
>>20208546
No, what happens to you now is already in the past by the time you start describing it, so the past tense is used, though from the character's perspective it's "currently happening".

>>20210927
>My dream is to write something that someone ever cares about. Something that entertains a person even a little bit.

I used to think this way too. Then one person read my story once, said they enjoyed it, and never spoke to me again and I thought there has to be something more to writing

>>20210981
What more do you think there is to it?

Sometimes I worry that we make too much of it. But this is one of mankind's highest capacities, to make manifest some truly beautiful instrument which has the power to move other human hearts.

>>20210160

New short story I wrote:
I turned around. And walked the other direction.

>>20210988
You make it sound grand but all you really did was distract a stranger for a short while, then to be forgotten. It's like going out to the street and yelling "AAAAHHHH!" out loud. Maybe you turned some heads for a bit but really, what was it for?

Yes, I have heard of this phenomenon, people trying to pawn off curses onto other unwilling participants. If he's stalking you, you may simply call the cops. If not, here, this is a corkscrew. It's not just an ordinary corkscrew, it's a *magic* corkscrew. Protects you from curses. Well, that's all there is to it lad, just pull the corkscrew and remember, he can't hurt you unless you let him. Unless he's the persuasive type, of course...

>>20210358
rip kitty, she will be remembered forever :(

>>20210927
>Where are you guys posting things that people read them?
I'm writing romances and/or outright erotica for anons on the NSFW boards, which is cheating. No idea how you get readers for anything with literary merit and without boobs. You likely have to be a higher class of prostitute.

You guys building up your followers yet?

>>20211023
i would like to do that, contribute to someone's never ending distractions. what a dream. not even sarcasm

>>20211034
yeah that's like music, i feel like nothing artistic will ever be heard or read unless published by a real record label or publication company (except erotica)

Is there any worse feeling than writing a short story, thinking that this will be the one to get published, then reading a story in a magazine you want to be published in that is so totally amazing it blows your shitty story away?

>>20210927
AO3. You need to write something people actually want to read, and it should probably be fanfic, but if you find the right fandom and hook people will come.
I'm scared shitless of advertising myself, indexing my work on a site with nonexistent standards is at the limit of what I can bring myself to do. Thankfully it works, except when it doesn't.
I get very nice comments sometimes.

>Another 1.2k today
>Almost finished tying off the pov
Its getting closer brothers...

>>20205933
I like it. It's like a photograph of what I see when I look outside.

"It's like the riddle about the two guards, where one guards the entrance to hell and the other to heaven, but this is different. In this version, the person telling you he is your friend, is your enemy. And the person telling you he hates you, is the one who loves you." She held up the card, some strange foreign looking artwork I couldn't recognize. I had known Millie for 8 years now, we lived in the same neighborhood, but I couldn't understand where she got this card...
"But they're the same person", I said, pointing to the deranged archetype.
"But still", she snickered, "you have to wonder, don't you? Which one would you pick?" Millie, the afternoon sun highlighting her sandy blonde hair, peaking through the trees...
I woke from the dream. A landline phone buzzed. I was in my cubicle at work. Before I could collect myself, a portly frame stepped into view, "Bob, can you come into my office for a minute?" It was Bill, office manager. I patted myself down and followed him to his corner office, the one with the tinted window where you could see the whole town. He shut the door behind him and sat down.
"So, just so you know, you're not in trouble," Bill spoke gently, "we've just had a recent update to some of our staff hiring protocols and they wanted me to call you in for a second interview. That sound fair?"
I nodded sheepishly.
"We've been noticing that some of your work has been a little inconsistent lately, Bob. Not bad, just, inconsistent." I cocked my head sideways. Bill smiled. "It's not like that. We ran some your work through a state of the art interpereter. Some of the literature you've filled out between several different accounts have used vastly different spelling, techniques, and grammar. Do you have any idea why that is?" "I don't know." Bill shuffled around some papers. "Rob, we're glad to have you working with us today, please come again tomorrow. Please come again tomorrow. Thank you for working with us, please continue to work with us tomorrow. See us tomorrow." I woke from the dream.
I was in my bed at home, my parent's house in the southwest. I felt around at my sheets, soaked. Fuck, I thought, not again. I collapsed back onto whatever had been left untouched by the yellow scourge, the excesses of my betraying bladder. 4:36 AM. I bundled up my sheets and crept downstairs. Still enough time to run the wash, take a shower, and go to school, meet up with Kenny and Millie, hopefully I would see them there today...
In the laundry room it was dark. But I could feel around for the washing machine, and dropped my sheets in there, my clandestine operation almost complete...
A light flicked on. I was blinded.
"What are you doing?", a voice neighed, I whipped my head around. It was my mom, except..it wasn't. Something about this wasn't right. Her bright blonde hair in distended bobs down to her throat, a froglike apparatus, she just stood there blocking the doorframe, her entire face obscured by the backlight. "You know you have school

>>20206353
Anyone feel up to giving a spot of critique? I appreciate >>20210874, but it's not exactly useful.

>>20211170
Pieces of this are compelling, but I can't help but feel the narrator cares a lot more about the characters than I do. Also the narrator seems to have almost two voices, one is the main character, the other is some disembodied stranger.

>>20206731
>I refuse. I will hold all of us to a higher standard. I will continue doing so until one of you pens the next Ulysses or Moby-Dick

>>20210009
>isekai
>LitRPG
>LitRPG/rebirth
>fantasy (urban)
>isekai
>isekai
>LitRPG
>LitRPG
>fantasy
>LitRPG
>LitRPG
>honest to god period fiction, oh my fucking god finally
>sci-fi

>>20211301
Who cares

>>20211418
Dare I say. Based

>>20210609
Yes. One time I started a novel, wrote 12k words, gave up, and then came back and finished it five years later.

Does writing fanfiction help you at all, or should I skip straight to original fiction if I want to ever get published? Not talking about building a reputation, more just writing experience.

>>20211606
Yeah, notable authors such as Snowqueens Icedragon have moved on from their beginnings in writing fan fiction to find stunning literary success.
>reminder that fan fiction is against the rules of /lit/

>>20211050
Yes, coming home to an empty bed

>>20211659
That's so fucking stupid, /lit/ should be the one place that allows fanfic. /co/ and /a/ mods are assblasted about it for no reason, so you can't even make threads there.
>hurrr fan fiction is le cringe XD
Grow up.

>>20211725
It's allowed on /trash/, where it belongs.

>>20211746
I refuse to share a boardspace with furfags, fuck off.

>>20211756
>fanficshitter getting upright about furfags
This is like the rivalry between murderers and pedophiles in prison.

>>20211756
We don't want you, anon. Have fun getting your prose critiqued by /b/ and [s4s].

>>20211769
>>20211773
At least I don't fuck dogs, shut the fuck up

Dante's inferno is also fanfiction, btw

>>20211783
>Dante's inferno is also fanfiction, btw
Yeah, because your Naruto x Daenerys fanfic is totally on the level of Dante's obsession with Vergil. This is why everyone hates you.

>>20211606
There are a few skills it doesn't exercise but you do gain experience. Why wouldn't it be helpful at all?
Most of what I've written is fan fiction. I write better now than I did when I started.

>>20211783
That's such a cop-out. You're not going to write an epic poem.
If you think fanfic has literary merit then it shouldn't be hard to find an example that's actually, say, published on a fanfic website. That's the right reference class for what you plan to write.
I haven't yet found fanfic on fanfic websites that I'd hold up as great literature, but I've found some that showed great skill and that I'd love to be capable of writing. It's more productive to focus on that instead of the Aeneid or whatever.

>>20211756
Stop being insecure.

What do you like better for querying?
>It's my pleasure to introduce my book, X
>I present my book X
>[no presentation, launching right into summary of novel and hook]

>>20211854
>he doesn't even follow the eightfold forms of the applicant writer
NGMI

>>20205089
Did a 3 year old that just got finished watching their cocomelon videos write this shit? What the fuck??

>>20206512
I fucking busted a gut reading this good lord almighty. Please write more. I beg of you

I haven't written in a while. Throw me interesting prompts to get me going on a flash.

How do you guys feel about introducing new characters when writing in first person? My thought is that because of the perspective, the writer needs to be wary of assuming that the reader understands "what you're going for". I already have a crystallized image of what certain characters are like before I introduce them, but navigating my way through getting the reader acquainted with them in a way that doesn't feel like an exposition dump but also doesn't leave them in the dark is a bit tricky. I've been picking books up off my shelves to try to see how other writers are able to so succinctly capture what a character is like right away, does your brain really just fill in the rest as you continue reading?

>>20211951
Debauchery in the 1920's.

Need some advice concerning a specific scene. I'm writing a scene in which two layman characters watch a blacksmith restore a broken sword. The scene itself is important because it's sort of the culmination of a story arc, where the MC keeps looking for a smith to fix his shit, and now that he's found one he autistically stares at him while he works. How descriptive should I be with what he does or how he does it? I want it to be a sort of step-by-step kinda thing, but I don't want it to drag overlong and be overly detailed.

>>20212019
I think you're answering your own question. Is there any significance beyond just the sword getting fixed as a tool? Or are you trying to say something about the MC. Are they supposed to have some sort of breakthrough or realization about themselves or their quest seeing this happen?

>>20212019
It's ultimately up to you, there's no single right answer here.
You should beware of making it boring, but that doesn't have to mean avoiding detail. You can infuse it with interest. The restoration can be symbolic, with specific steps calling specific events to mind. Or you can describe it as an upward process, building anticipation for its completion. Or if your prose is entertaining and it's that style of story you can legitimately digress into the finer points of weapon restoration.
You can add personality to the smith. Maybe he doesn't like being watched while he works, or maybe he likes it too much and gets distracted while showing off or explaining what he's doing. Maybe he's very interested in where the sword came from, maybe he's unusually single-minded and only cares about it for its metallurgical properties. Maybe he talks about his daily life and you can juxtapose it with the whirlwind lifestyle of your protagonists. You can sprinkle this in, interleaving it to stop the smithing from getting stale.
Some of these would be bad choices for your story, I'm sure. But taste some ideas and figure out what works. There's more to decide than the level of detail.

>>20211980
"The monkey is not for sale."

"Nonsense," said Jerome. He fingered another bill from his wallet, sweeping moustache hiding a queazy smile. The bazaar was hot, Jerome drunk; his favourite whores, Annabella and Chardonnay, booked for 5pm. One Russian, the other God knows what.

"This should be adequate."

The seller, also of a grand (yet droopy) moustache, could not keep the greed from his eyes. He took the bills and Jerome snatched the monkey's leather leash. The beast latched its fangs onto his hand, starting a little dance.

For many reasons the pain was bearable. Jerome maintained himself and struck the beast with his cane. Weakness here and the whole bazaar might descend on him like the monkey. He knew they watched, and so he struck fast and firm, until the beast cowered and released its jaw.

Another scar from this wretched place. Charlotte would ask after each one when he returned.

A swig of gin, splash the rest on the open wound. The fat madam would clean it properly. Then Annabella would kiss it. But that was hours away.

Jerome stared at the monkey. The monkey glowered back. Its hair was missing in patches, skin stretched tight across a disturbingly human face.

"Let's get some food in you," Jerome muttered.

Every other cobble was missing, as if obliterated by the sun's rays and turned to dust. Every building was ancient. The wood posts holding up the wide sails shading the bazaar looked at least a 100 years old.

...
Maybe I'll continue this, kind of like it. Thanks for the prompt!

>>20212087
So far so good.

>>20212019
Honestly, you may want to abstract it as the protagonist gets lost in watching the process. Describe sounds, sights, but don't really be too overly step-by-step with it. It does depend on your protagonist, what's he like, etc.

>>20211965
My first person narrators never care too much about what other people look like. When describing the appearance of characters, shorter is better. And for the love of everything that's holy, DO NOT wax poetic about a woman's beauty for longer than a sentence, if that. Detail can be meted out over time. Allow your reader to discover the characters. Don't just shove everything down the reader's throat. Sometimes red hair and an impish smile alone can carry a description.

>>20211965
I tend to default to "vague hair description, skin tone and build", along with any notable things (scars and the like). In first person, I'd go with whatever your perspective is likely to really take in. Do they mostly note hair, or does the face capture their attention, etc?

>>20212165
And if you REALLY need your reader to know that Ms. Bumblesnatch is 5'10, has 36D (natural) tits, long and black hair, wears a size ten shoe she hides by wearing heels, has pubic hair trimmed into a landing strip, with one dark brown eye slightly offset from the other, etc., DON'T DO IT ALL AT ONCE. Try this:
>dialogue, dialogue, dialogue
>she presses her tits together, gosh they're big!!!
>dialogue dialogue dialogue graphic depiction of erection
>the scent of her size ten feet waft up from the straps of her pumps
>etc
There is no excuse to write an entire paragraph describing any character except poor taste

>>20212019
Your description reminds me of a plot I the comic Usagi Yojimbo. At the end of one chapter the protagonist has his swords stolen. The next issue opens with about four pages describing how swords are made from gathering iron to smelting it to the actual smiting, and explains how this work makes the blades a sacred thing that represents the Samurai's soul. It then cuts to a full page of his face wild with anger and screaming "WHERE ARE MY SWORDS?" at a bandit. It's a great scene, not inherently because of the accuracy of the process the writer describes, but with how it makes the reader respect the importance of getting the swords back and emphasizes the emotional impact by contrasting the protagonist's manic anger with the calm reverence that preceded.

>>20212165
>>20212200
>Sometimes red hair and an impish smile alone can carry a description.
I generally agree with all this, it's similar to any description really where two or three bold brush strokes paint a clearer picture than a cluttered list of dimensions and subtle traits. And weaving a few more details between dialogue is good but you should not overdo it or introduce new features beyond their introductory chapter in my opinion (if we don't learn their eye color initially I don't want to learn it 5 chapters later).

My only other thought is that character voice should take precedent over your authorial plot concerns on what features are to be highlighted. To keep with the horndog theme, I'd expect the POV of a 25 year old pool repair guy vs a 25 year old girl applying to be a nanny to highlight different features when meeting a MILF employer character even if their story plots (the summer I works for Mrs. Jones) have all the same themes/beats.

>>20211980
There is really nothing like a flapper, as there is nothing better than a girl like a boy, and, I imagine, by virtue of that, nothing better than a boy like a girl.
When she dances the Charleston with that natty bracelet and black forelock, and little cocktail dress, while the sambo band strikes up you'd think she was made of fire. She moved herself about, with her legs as the center, like a flame on a match's wick. And when the clarinet yowls, and the silver trumpets blare, and those big lips purse, forming an embouchure, she flips and turns like the body of a salamander, with hot cabaret lights lambent on her sweat. She goes from man to man - the coquette! - and lends them a light with peck on the cheek, making them, too, join the ritual fire dance. All the vital superstition of the tribesman's billiken radiating from her nascent bosom, her louche little legs. What sort of fuel feeds the fire? Certainly not egg creams! No, for all her charms, her hat and heels, think somewhere in the vicinity of speakeasy rickey's, jag juice cooked up in some slick dago's bathtub.
Just as soon as she's done dancing, look by the bar, and there you'll catch a glimpse: shooting the bull with some big-hatted hayseed who struck black gold digging in his cornfield, or a spic dictator with a devilish pencil moustache, the only measured thing about him with his loud velvet suit and brilliant patent leather shoes. Not the least of lady-killers, mind you, though she shoots them down all the same, like they were yesterday's news, like gormless gimlets, dewdroppers! Carmen in ermine, mind you, the way she'll gyp you, even when you think you've got it made. And just like Carmen you'll want to take a knife to her in the last act, and when the deed is done you'll wail in anguish at your own foolhardy ardor, that by this sickening turn of events her fire has entered and altered you, made you a slave, and, as the curtains close, this slave of a man will kill its dreaded, intoxicating master, making in the process this world one beautiful thing poorer.

>>20212320
pls dont breed

>>20212289
>introduce new features beyond their introductory chapter in my opinion
Just to play devil's advocate and to illustrate that even though these are something approaching rules, or at least ad hoc guidelines: there are always ways you can play with this. In a surrealist novel, for example, maybe her eyes are brown in chapter one and blue in chapter three. In a detective novel, maybe she was wearing colored contacts. Subverting these things can be great fun, and can be used to great effect. In the surrealist novel, maybe it lends an ethereal quality by casually and without justification changing her eye color. Maybe the killer in the detective novel had blue eyes, and the discovery that she was wearing contacts sets up the big reveal.

Writing is, in my opinion, often about subverting the rules. Writing that follows them to the T is usually boring. But you have to know that it is tasteless to introduce details in a particular way in order to be tasteful about the way in which you subvert that taste, and make a reader appreciate it against their better judgment.

>>20212165
>>20212173
>>20212200
>>20212289
This is all really solid advice. I've been feeling a bit overwhelmed because the section I've just written has the protagonist meeting her peers for the first time, all of whom have exotic appearances and a few of whom are pretty eccentric.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UoEbfz3BlmlvT1he2ZJtglccvBVfK0WwB_wtUM83NBs/edit?usp=sharing

(The chapter in question begins on page 34)

>>20212200
>There is no excuse to write an entire paragraph describing any character except poor taste
I don't think this is strictly true. I've seen it integrated well with the flow of a scene, with a character (appearing in person for the first time) standing still on a podium, meaningfully dressed up, building anticipation. It's easy to make this tasteless of course, and the flow of most scenes doesn't allow it, but this story pulled it off.
If it's really natural for the narrator to linger, for someone present on the scene to take in someone's appearance from top to toe, then it could be okay, if you don't overdo it.

>>20212423
It's generally considered a good idea to stagger out character introductions of groups like that, otherwise the reader will have a hard time really pinning down the looks of everybody because you've just overloaded them with descriptions. Have her meet some a little earlier or later, etc.

>>20212439
You could also just go with a general feel. Find a trait they all share and elegantly emphasize it in some way (maybe they all have eccentric styles, or something). Then, as individuals become more significant you could fill them in bit by bit. Also, remember that narrators aren't infallible — maybe one girl has a really deep shade of hair you thought was just brown, or some other thing you could probably describe way better than I can — and there's nothing wrong with "noticing" something you missed.

>>20212430
>I don't think this is strictly true
It is. The point being, if you're gonna break that "rule," don't give any excuses, then. Just make it so fucking good that an asshole like me will have to stuff my sock in my mouth just to admire your mastery.

I wrote 4k words today. I never thought that was doable but the secret is to sit down and concentrate

>>20212382
I do agree, it's a rule of thumb but if you go against it in a thoughtful/purposeful way it's easy to do to good effect same as same as anon said >>20212430

A long character intro in 1st person can be great as it shows how overwhelmed/impacted the POC is by the other person - but it can get tiring very very quickly.

>>20212654
That's a good trick and feels real to life.

>>20210126
I agree with that other anon about the anime and the needing more intricacy, but I think the first part could use a little more work as well.
>>The rain only intensified as they stared each other down, the surrounding areas in ruin and the usual pitter-patter of the droplets sounding more and more like the fire of a gatling gun too large to be held by any military.
It feels a little too wordy to me and I don't like the word military in the last sentence. For some reason army sounds a bit better to me, though I can't say why.

This is the new bread >>20213134
Just like the old bread