/lit/ - Literature

>Does pic related make sense without reading pic related

what did he mean by this?

>>20173789
Not reading the first book in the series?
I think you'd be pretty lost desu. Generally what tends to happen if you pick up a book in the middle of the series.

>>20173789
You need an IQ above 120 to enjoy BoTNS.

>>20173789
You can probably piece it together but it’s much better to read through the first book. I know it’s sort of a meme to say “trust me it gets better,” but most people, along with myself, found the first book a little underwhelming and the subsequent entries brilliant. Hope that’s a little helpful anon.

>>20173798
As far as I'm aware, BoTNS is a series of which Shadow of the torturer is part, so BoTNS ≠ SoTT.
I understood, though, from your reply that it is important for the narrative as a whole. Thanks for the answer.

>>20173789
Wolfe's solar cycle is best appreciated by starting with Return to the Whorl and working yourself backwards.

>>20173789
if you don't like reading books but are drawn to their fandom you can always just skim wikipedia and go straight into posting memes - it's what most people do. the "sense" of botns is not so much anything IN it as the role it has of a symbolic "proof" that fantasy can be "literary," like watchmen fulfills for comic books, so that genre dorks can pat themselves on the back and then go back to playing a videogame. the book achieves this function just as well without being read, perhaps even better.

>>20173789
Why would you want to jump on book 2 if you're tired of 1? If you don't like it, you won't like the rest. You should probably give Wolfe a rest for a while and read another author.

>>20173834
That's fascinating, I like the first book far more than the rest.

>>20173844
You have to understand that Wolfe wrote his entire story in one go and that the 4-volume cut-out is his publisher's choice.

>>20173789
If you don’t like shadow I don’t think you’re going to like any of the rest of it either. Another anon in this thread disagrees with me, but I loved every second of that entire series, and to me the first book is the highlight of the series.

>>20173789
I'm 100 pages in and I've found it interesting since maybe 50, maybe you just need to give it some time

>>20173789
The Shadow of The Torturer is the best book in the series though. If you don't like it, then I'm afraid I have some BAD NEWS for you.

I read BoNS, absolutely loved it. Do any of you anons have experience with other stuff Wolfe wrote? I’m eyeing The Wizard Knight series next. Curious if anyone has read it and how it compares

>>20173789
That's literally the prologue. So while you don't miss anything plotwise, you miss everything characterwise and what sets up the entire story.

>>20174288
He's generally great. Many say BotNS is his masterpiece, but that often sounds like its the only book of his they have read. Out of his works I've read, I personally rank Soldier of the Mist/Arete, Fifth Head of Cerberus, Short Sun and top short stories like the DoctorIslanDeaths above New Sun.

>>20173789
What’s better: the tor books hardbacks or the sf masterworks paperbacks? I found the tor books paperbacks at a bookstore but I hated the texture on the covers.

>>20173789
Are you at the botanical gardens? That section drags on a bit.
BotNS is best thought of as a novel in four parts, so skipping random sections is not the best idea. The botanical gardens/adventures with Agia make sense in hindsight, but could have been trimmed down a bit.
Just finish it, and then read the second volume (Claw of the Conciliator) to see if it keeps your interest.

Also, for anyone who hasn't read it, Short Sun>New Sun>Long Sun

>>20174759
Grab the old 80's Timescape covers on thrift books

>>20174759
Peasant

>>20174875
>$60 dollars for each quarter used vs $20-30 for each half new
thanks for the response anon, I’m looking for what I can get for a decent price off amazon or ebay.

>>20174531
Rad, thanks anon. That’s wonderful to hear, and I’ll definitely try some of his other work now.

>>20174288
The Wizard Knight is pretty good. It's a bit less cryptic than BotNS but still has a few things you piece together yourself. It drags a bit in the second half but you'll probably like it if you liked BotNS

>>20175053
>it’s less cryptic
You got filtered lolz. The entire plot is about two chimeric twins in the womb

>>20173817
i think you mean you need an IQ below 145 to enjoy it.

>>20173789
I really can't believe you posted this. How old are you? The more I think about this the weirder it gets. Holy shit. Zoomers are a hell of a drug.

>>20173949
for me it's 4>2>1>3

>>20174931
The Tor Essentials hardcovers are ~30 Canadian each, two volumes, on Amazon.

>>20173817
Some of the reviews I've seen are dumbfounding.

>I was searching for a dark souls themed book and a lot of people suggested this series. In simple terms I don’t recommend. The author attempts to make scenes vivid by using very descriptive words, unfortunately this causes an extreme amount of unnecessary fillers. The thoughts are there on what the author wants to happen but it’s all over the place and difficult to understand. Sections of dialogue are put on hiatus to describe details only to resume the same conversation after. 40 pages in and I had no idea what was happening. I found my self retracing only to try and understand some small detail that wasn’t covered previously.

>Ignore the reviews by critics, and even by acclaimed authors like Neil Gaiman. The Book of the New Sun is quite possibly the worst book ever written. I have stuck through some doozies, but none take the cake like this, and I wish I had trusted my gut instinct numerous times throughout the series to stop instead of pushing through to the end for the sake of completion. Nothing makes sense or can be followed as the author just invents words and items without descriptions, leaving you to wonder what the hell you're reading. It doesn't get better across the various books, the author if anything doubles down throughout them. The author has invented a world without explaining its contents to the reader

>Overall, it's alright. Certainly not a page turner. It takes a looooooong time to get into. I honestly had to force myself to read the whole thing and it took over a year to do (could only read a few pages at a time some times). I wasn't sure what was happening throughout the novel and even after I finished it, I had to read the wiki plot.

OP is an idiot. there's your (You)

>>20175580
Yeah I was looking at those. Just wanted to know if anyone has them and could say if they’re good hardbacks. If not I’d rather save the money and expand the sf masterworks collection.

You’re a retard

>>20173789
why the fuck would you skip shadow of the torturer?

>>20175626
>those reviews
Holy filter, batman!

>>20174904
Absolutely gorgeous set

>>20174093
>The Shadow of The Torturer is the best book in the series
That's a strange way to spell The Sword of the Lictor, friend

>>20173949
>>20175557
For me, it's probably 3 > 4 > 1 > 2
But i haven't finished 4 yet. Do you guys reccomend reading Urth immediately after? The copy I have keeps them together and calls it the "complete" botns pls no spoil pls.

Post fan art and memes

Terminus Est might be one of my favorite swords in all of SF&F. Absolutely kino

>executes a tranny
>uses the male edge
>>heh, nothin' personel, troon

>>20175919
>Do you guys reccomend reading Urth immediately after?
I was reading Lexicon Urthus last night and the author alludes to there being some disagreement as to whether Urth is book 5 in the series or a standalone sequel.
But I don't see why you shouldn't read it right after, unless you prefer re-reading the first four first. That's what I was going to do, but Citadel explained a lot by the end so I felt less of a need to re-read.

>>20175919
I finished 1-4 but never read Urth, and I don't think I ever will. Although I might after a few re-reads if I feel the urge. From what I understand, Urth is basically an appendix tacked on (against Wolfe's wishes btw) that basically goes through and clarifies/reveals a lot of the mystery and ambiguity throughout BotNS. For me, this mystery and ambiguity were a very large part of why I enjoyed the series, but it's pretty clear not everyone enjoyed it like I did, so just go with your gut. If you want things spelled out for you, read Urth, if you would prefer to puzzle it out yourself or just marinate in the enigma, avoid it like the plague.

>>20175932
>sword filled with liquid mercury
>fucks up weight balance as it sloshes back and forth when you swing it
why not just use an axe? or a kukri? a khopesh?

>>20175959
Lexicon Urthus also has huge spoilers of small details that you wouldn't realize without a close rereading. I know that might be obvious but it jumps out at you in non-obvious entries before you realize it's coming.

>>20175973
RIP. I definitely will be rereading at lease once before I dive in to those two volumes then. Have you read anything from Wolfe besides BotNS anon?

>>20175966
It's not meant to be swung back and forth. It's an executioner sword meant only to swing in one direction to decapitate someone. Severian uses it as a weapon but it's primarily a tool

>>20176005
Yeah, Soldier of the Mist, and the novella The Death of Doctor Island. The latter is a mind-bender that definitely merits rereading.
Soldier, I mean it does too, but I thought it was more about figuring out what was happening in the moment because of Latro's amnesia. By the time I finished it, I didn't feel there was anything I didn't understand, although it would be difficult to summarize because of the jumbled way it's told.
I want to read the sequel to Soldier, as well as Wizard Knight, and Fifth Head of Cerberus, but BotNS still has a lot to give.

>>20176152
Wonderful. I'll put The Death of Doctor Island at the top of my list. I am just about to start The Wizard Knight, but otherwise haven't read anything besides BotNS. I definitely didn't crack it completely, but my mind has been fried by modern technology and I can't stay handle multiple consecutive reads, so I plan on returning to it after a small break. As an aside these threads almost wish there was a way to talk with people like you outside of this place. I am from a small town and know literally zero people who read. It's nice to hear other people's opinion on the works I enjoy.

>>20176124
I like to imagine Sevarian just swings it in a circle and pivots on his heels since that's the only way anybody would be able to use that sword in combat

>>20176216
That's the only reason to come here isn't it? Even though I live in the city, I'm still isolated from like minds. You can only get that sort of thing on the Internet, and the love of books filters out a lot of shit. /lit/ deserves the complaints it gets, but it could be a lot worse. It could be /v/.

>>20175966
Coolness factor. Also, symbolism (it's harder to lift because of the gravity of what you're about to do).

>>20176443
Amen bro. Kek, /v/ is truly a hell beyond comprehension. Best wishes my friend.

>>20174288
Pirate Freedom is the best plotted novel I've read, even better than Treasure Island albeit not as good overall.

>>20176124
>>20176241
>>20176452
Is any of that addressed or described in the narrative? Because a sword with no point and fucked up weight balance just seems like a shitty axe to me.
I train with steel mace bells and it would be ridiculously terrible to use if the bell slid up and down the shaft.

>>20175626
>I am a retard and have no idea what is happening
I first read it when I was like 8 thanks to some neckbeard at the comic shop and it genuinely blew my fucking mind when I realized the tower was a spaceship. These people are literally being outsmarted by children who didn’t have the internet

>>20177227
The reason for the liquid mercury is stated, that it's to help with the downswing on executions. It also mentions that the tip is squared, not pointed, but it doesn't give the reason for that explicitly. Executioner swords were squared irl, so that's meant to be understood going in or realized via context (he's given the sword when he's told that he's to become a lictor (an executioner))
the name of the sword is latin, roughly translated to "this is the end" or "it is the end". Although Severian translates it as "this is the dividing line" and another character as "this is the place of parting". All of the translations are extremely fitting for the sword's purpose.

>>20174093
Book of the short sun is better than new sun. Fight me

>>20173789
Are you retarded

>>20177288
> It also mentions that the tip is squared, not pointed, but it doesn't give the reason for that explicitly. Executioner swords were squared irl
You are giving a lot of credit to how to mind of midwits work. You think these are simple deductions everyone should be able to deduce, because you obviously can. 40% of humanity is probably too stupid to even comprehend the end of a sword not ending in a point

>>20175959
>1-4
You’ve literally read less than half of the entire story

>>20177288
>Executioner swords were squared irl
Ah, fair enough, wasn’t aware they were like that in 15th-17th century europe. Thanks anon.

>>20177227
Executioner's swords weren't made up for these novels, they were real and they didn't have points because the executioner was never going to stab anything with it. The only part that's made up is the liquid mercury, which is explained, but would be pointless because the sword is already designed to decapitate and wouldn't need the extra weight.

>>20177328
Are you talking about long sun and short sun?

>>20177448
>wouldn't need the extra weight
Yeah but it's neat, tho

>>20176152
As well as the ones you mentioned, I enjoyed Peace a lot

>does it bother you that these soldiers have been doing their best to kill ascians?
>ascians are not human

What did he mean by this??

>>20178134
Didn’t the aliens make all the autarchs eunuchs if they failed? I can’t remember

>>20178246
Idk I'm like 10 chapters away from finishing Citadel myself. I know that this current autarch is a eunich, I don't think it's explained why they are, or if they all are supposed to be. It's also somewhat vaugue as to whether or not the ayys are really in control of things. I mean they SAY they are, but like, cmon. Everyone SAYS theyre in control of things. I feel like typhon wouldn't have allowed himself to become a eunich tho

>>20177448
It makes sense because it's a ceremonial sword meant to also be usable by older members of the guild for rituals. Genre Wolfe was an engineer, and the weight redistribution makes sense.

>>20175626
>NOOOOOO WHY ISNT BOTNS LIKE MY HECKING DAAAAAANK SOULZ?!
>NO "LE ITEM DESCRIPTIONS"
Fromdrones are so pathetic.

>>20178285
Oh keep going, the ayyylmaos and their shenanigans are explained a lot further in urth of the new sun

Did you faggots know that there is a 3 issue Shadow of the Torturer comic? It's not bad. Looks like sandman drawings.

>>20175945
Terminus Est is itself the symbol of Severian being a genderqueer n-spirit (and circumcised).

>>20175919
>>20175959
Urth is actually worth reading, but since it's written in a different style, going straight into it from BotNS could be quite jarring.
Some of what happens in BotNS is explained (or rather, some of what is hinted at in BotNS actually happens in Urth), such as Severian meeting what he saw at the House Absolute and the events of the play reoccurring.
That said, even as some of the mysteries of BotNS are explained, there is plenty more that happens in Urth that is similarly confusing.
To reiterate, Urth is not really an appendix that clarifies the events of BotNS, but a novel in which some of the things that are only hinted at in BotNS occur. You should not read Urth as an 'explanation' of BotNS, but try to figure out it in itself. I'll admit that it's not quite as ambiguous as BotNS.

>>20178523
Urth is fantastic. And if not more confusing and psychedelic than the entirety of BoTNS. That scene where Severian kills the female torturer and you find out that that was the catalyst for why they don't let women in the guild anymore. A question that didn't need to be answered but a nice touch to something all the way back in book one.

>>20173789
Absolutely not. Someone in a thread the other day said he didn't enjoy it because "it's just a series of disjointed events." Couldn't be more wrong, it's one of the most holistic fiction novels ever written, which is why it's recommended you reread it. It all works together as a whole.

>>20178592
The only people who think it’s disjointed are filtered midwits. The entire 12 books is cyclical and every event happens exactly as it must even in the novels that don’t include severian

>>20177287
sure you did

>>20178602

>>20174904
>only the two volume standard edition
now someone mog me with the centipede press set

>>20178285
>typhon
>an autarch

>>20178819
What was Typhon? Just some warlord/overly advanced human pretending to be autarch

>>20173789
I just got started on shadow of the torturer
any tips for understanding wtf is going on?

>>20178854
Monarch. Not Autarch.

>>20178923
Stick with it. He doesn't spell out the whole world for you but there's alot going on. Most of the stuff that seems irrelevant is plot related, if not it's world building and/or to set you up to decipher things about the characters and themes. No chapters are pointless or superficial even though it seems that way. Trust Wolfe.

>>20178923
He's an apprentice of the guild of torturers and he almost drowned then he saved the life of a rebel to the autarch because he was impressed with the rebel's heroic figure and the beauty of his girlfriend.

>>20178973
many such cases

>>20178134
not enough DDDs

>>20178134
Wolfe meant that a collective borg like hivemind society (aka 1984 style Communism, which we are heading towards) is not viable and is anti life/anti God

>>20180239
>1984
read better books. Orwell was a dangerous terrorist and a hound of fascism

My fan-casting of Severian and the Androgyne for the inevitable Netflix adaption. Thoughts? What's your ideal BotNS cast?

>>20180391
People use 1984 as a catch-all term for authoritarianism so that the layman can understand. Would you rather me have said Strugatsky brothers Hard To Be a God? Or another of Wolfe's stories, the corrupt Kafkaesque-like government in V.R.T? What about Fahrenheit 451? I doubt Bradbury is good enough either but many people have common knowledge of it as well. Is there a book you recommend to substitute 1984 for that is common to the plebs? I'm drawing a blank.

>>20178923
The best advice that i could give you is that you dont need to understand every detail immediately when you come across it. If you have a standard grasp of the english lexicon, you wont run into too many "big" words. You will find words that you just dont know the meaning of, but this is more than likely going to be a word that Wolfe created specifically for something in his universe.. that one review in the middle >>20175626
Here is unironically right, but also wrong. The "made up words" are part of the charm and what makes the book feel so real and immersive, because the story doesn't stop every five seconds to give you the definition and etymology of every single complicated word. This filters alot of smoothebrains and probably bunch of ESLtards because theyll look up a word like "aes, orichalk, exultant," etc. And googling those words will just lead them right back to botns. Most of these words, However, you can come to understand through context, through the characters telling you basically what it is, or, in some cases through a small, tolkienesque appendice that Wolfe attached to the end of each book. Other than that you should be good. Don't be upset when you come across something you don't "get" right away. Chances are, they'll make sense as you continue reading. BotNS is as much a puzzle as it is a novel honestly.

>>20178523
>>20178489
>>20175959
>>20175948
Thank you for the advice, fellow, Wolfescholars. I've decided to finish up Citadel, then take a month long break, or so, to catch up on other books, before picking up Urth.
Also, someone redpill me on The Castle of the Otter

>>20174904
>>20178784
Centipede set looks gorgeous. It's a shame they all cost upwards of 2k since it was only a limited run

>>20180849
God I hope there never is a series based on it. They would pozz it to hell, taking every opportunity they could to extrapolates bullshit out of the story. They'd probably actually make Severian genderfluid because of Thecla

My cast
Severian- finn wolfhard
Thecla- gina carano
Dorcas- ANYA or kenna james or whoever is the prime loli around that time
Agia- ana de armis
Jolenta- some redheaded sloot with huge milkers and a big dumper
Pia- moner
Daria- sophia lilis
Cyraine- emma watson

The rest dont really matter just dont cast a literal tranny as the autarch. Maybe cast jared leto so he can method act and cut off his own dick that would be hilarious

You bastards discussed this damn book so much that I started reading it too.

I've read these books 3 times and I still barely understand a thing about them, but I love them all the same. The whole thing feels like some half-remembered dream, but it really sticks with me.

>>20182971
Sometimes he explains things I figured out easily like they were difficult to figure out, and other times he hints at things and doesn't elaborate. Both make me feel dense. The hardest part to wrap my head around is the time travel fuckery that Severian only begins to delve into at the end of Citadel.
I saw in Lexicon Urthus that the fourth book Severian brings to Thecla, which is never described from what the rereading of those chapters I just did, is actually The Book of the New Sun that you're reading. You fucken wut? Severian would have to know that and not tell us. It's cheating.

>>20175626
>The author attempts to make scenes vivid by using very descriptive words, unfortunately this causes an extreme amount of unnecessary fillers. The thoughts are there on what the author wants to happen but it’s all over the place and difficult to understand.
mass literacy was a mistake

>>20181987
ngl the first chapter do remind me of the middle part of ur pic

>>20178854
He’s a grumpy gay alien who tries to rule over humanity. In the later books he brainwashed the population to think he and his family were god

I literally JUST finished Urth of the New Sun a few hours ago
anyway, very good series

>>20175674
I don't like how they look but the quality and all is fine

>>20175945
I don't remember a tranny in the book
you don't mean agilus do you?

>>20175959
>Urth is basically an appendix tacked on (against Wolfe's wishes btw) that basically goes through and clarifies/reveals a lot of the mystery and ambiguity throughout BotNS
I don't really know how one could get this
it's just a continuation of severian's story

>>20178613
I mean I definitely did. It was pretty much the only thing I figured out on that first read through considering I was a child

>>20178285
finish reading before posting in threads about the book you fool
you'll spoil it

How difficult is this compared to something like Blood Meridian?

>>20175626 makes it seem like the prose is difficult, but I downloaded a pdf just to see and skimmed around and didn't see anything hard to understand. Looks like there's a ton of dialogue

>>20180849
How do you cast someone who thinks they look like a fucking chad but only because they’ve been lying to you the entire time?

>>20181969
keep in mind that wolfe didn't create a new language or anything
every word that seems strange is either an antiquated real word or a word made up of latin or greek roots
with both context and the knowledge of latin and greek which their presence in english should have already instilled in you, most of the words are easy enough to figure out on the fly

>>20183578
what's this "severian lies about everything" meme I see around

>>20183571
The book has been hard for me simply because of how schizo and all over the place it is. The world is bizarre as fuck and you have an unreliable schizo narrator who goes from reciting a conversation and then randomly in the middle of it he goes off on completely unrelated quasi-philosophical or political tangents like how he thinks dueling is based and every civil society should have it.

>>20183539
I'm just memein' broh

>>20183607
Cool, don't know if it was your intention but you just sold me on it
Another question: do you have to read the books consecutively, or will I be fine if I read a few other books in between each part?

>>20183607
>unrelated
Unironically filtered

>>20183626
The book is ONE book in the same way that LotR is ONE book. It's split into four volumes for ease of consumption. You can read other stuff inbetween, but youre probably better off going through them all in one go since the story generally continues from immediately or shortly after where the previous one ends.

>>20183568
But I want to have conversations with fellow anons and I havent seen a BotNS thread in a long time pls don't yell at me pls don't spoil anonfreirnd pls

>>20183024
>time travel fuckery
Oh boy just wait till you get to the short sun and his alien time travel teleportation fuckery with his alien bastard lizard daughter

>>20175945
Is this just a book that collects all fantasy swords? Because that’s a cool book, what is it?

>>20183571
Blood Meridian is more difficult. McCarthy's style is unconventional as you know, but mostly simple. It's difficult because of his obscure vocabulary and metaphor.
Wolfe's is conventional. His prose is just smarter than average. His phrasing is sophisticated, so that sometimes you might have to reread sentences or paragraphs to follow his thought. But it's not pretentious or dry. He's not trying to bore you, and I think that third reviewer is wrong; these books are page-turners.
There's also the matter in this series specifically about obscure vocabulary. He went back into Greek and Latin roots to use archaic words for extinct animals and other things. It's not important that you understand them all. It's meant to cultivate a sense of the fantastic.

>>20177448
>would be pointless
Carlos?

>>20183596
He’s an unreliable narrator. But in the later books when Silk meets him, who doesn’t lie because he’s a prophet, severian gets described as pretty ugly I recall

>>20183596
Well he's writing the narrative from a point after the end of it. And he tells you this almost upfront, but you don't know everything that he knows. The importance of many events are subtle and not fully apparent, and things that happen later recontextualize what happened before.
It's Wolfe's characteristic style. He writes from the point of view of the characters, not from an omniscient perspective.

>>20183571
The style itself isn't difficult, rather straightforward with some beautiful passages for emphasis. Think of its difficulty as akin to Pale Fire and figuring out what the fuck Kinbote is on about.

>>20183657
>>20183712
Oh fuck this makes me really want to get into Long/Short Sun. I swear I'm going to be reading mostly Gene Wolfe for the rest of the year.
As for Severian's personality, it's easy to forget that he's not always a good person because he's thoughtful and polite, and people like him, and he doesn't dwell on it in his narrative.

>>20183866
As a diehard Wolfe fan, Short Sun is his best work to be completey desu. Or maybe tied with Wizard Knight, haven't really decided.

>>20183596
Pretty much what >>20183740 said
I think people that emphasize Sev's unreliability are just not used to this kind of perspective in written voice. Does he lie? Certainly. Everyone does. Just like everyone doesn't know what exactly is going on around them most of the time.

Jolenta was asking for it. IT was not rape

>>20183944
>asking for it
That doesn't mean it's not rape, it means it was justified. Stop being an SJW acting like rape is wrong.

>>20183944
>>20183996
literally nowhere did Severian even remotely implying that it was rape. She was clearly teasing him and wanted it. Why the fuck would she want to go off alone and act all tsundere with him otherwise?

>>20184023
She was unconscious and it's one of the weirdest chapters in the book but you can't prove she wasn't. Literally nowhere does he even remotely imply she was conscious.

>>20184023
>literally nowhere did Severian even remotely implying that it was rape
Urth of the new sun. But it still wasn't rape
>>20184065
You never played sleep assault with your girlfriend?

>>20183880
What makes Short Sun the best? It's not as insightful, nor elegantly structured, nor as finely crafted as NS.

>>20183678
Idk, i just saw the image on 4chan once. The pic also had some other fantasy sword right next to it. I cropped out the other sword because i dont know where it's from

This seems to be the source, maybe from there you can find more pics?
>https://www.deviantart.com/deimos-remus/art/Fantasy-Weaponry-Terminus-Est-and-Stormbringer-884375908

>>20184065
>take a nap in a boat
>guy youre leading on starts touching you
>remain asleep
Yeah, no, she woke up and gave up the puss, my dude. Jolenta consented

>>20183866
He's unironically a good person in almost every situation. He's kind, empathetic, forgiving, generous, he goes out of his way and puts himself in harm's path to help people that are complete strangers the girl in the jacal when the glownigs were looking for him after showing mercy to a sloot, lil' sev's family, he wanted to heal baldanders, he gave every bit of money he had to dorcas so she wouldn't need to whore on her quest, Etc. The only situations I can think of when he acted really selfishly was when he baited the notules into killing the one dude that was on a horse. It was a life or death situation and he chose to sacrifice someone else. That was the shittiest thing he did, but even then he brought the guy back with the resurrection stone he got out of the golden snitch
It's overplayed and cringe to just say that every story told from a pov is LE UNRELIABLE NARATOR because IT JUST IS OKAY?? I dont buy it. Severian is a good man and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

>>20175626
these are the same people who say they read 150+ pages in an hour on reddit

>>20183712
toward the end of citadel he got slapped by weapon that disfigured his face. I haven't met that character or finished the book yet, but keep that in mind. Also, he never particularly calls himself handsome and even said multiple times that he thinks hes pretty dumb

>>20184302
>he brought the guy back with the resurrection stone
The claw? The Jesus power was in him all along thanks to space and time folding on himself because of the white fountain.

>>20184357
Regardless, my point still stands. Most of the things he did were selfless and heroic. Obviously you can say
>oh he didn't write about the shitty things he did to make himself look good
But you can say that about any story that's told in this fashion. It's boring and reddit to just claim the narrator is unreliable based on a couple of shakey passages. You may as well say that none of the book happened and it's all make-belief, but what's the point of that?
>frodo wrote the lord of the rings so he could have omited all the times he insulted and belittled sam. He's an unreliable narrator because he's just piecing the story together from other people's words
Cringe mindset

>reading citadel
>get to a certain chapter
>actual catgirls
>mfw

>>20184357
So why did his resurrection powers work at particular times and not work other times?

I randomly started thinking of Hethor and when you first meet him he is looking for his sex robot doll.
Did I miss it or did he ever find it? I have read Urth twice but Hether being a sailor, does that imply he knew Severian when he was younger because time is all weird on the ship, and or why does he betray/ pretend to be Severians follower. Summoning aliens to kill him seems very strange to do. I assumed Abia or someone else hired him to kill and stop the new sun?

>>20184430
All the times it worked were moments when he truly wanted it to work. The times that failed, either he didn't fully care-- and his best friend Jonas was metal not flesh. Also important to note his power reverses time, not nessessarily heals. In Urth of the new sun, the second half when the white fountain is closest his powers are so strong he accidently causes the weather to shift based on his emotions and do other crazy jesus shit

>>20184202
Not the guy you asked but I also agree short sun is the best part of the series, maybe tied with new sun. I’m not sure why I feel it’s “better” maybe it’s just feeling like the protagonist and his journey are much more relatable on a human level? If Sev is Jesus-like, Silk is Noah/Moses? It’s hard to relate to Jesus on a quest to save the planet, while Silk’s goal in the beginning is just to save his church from destruction. Also it’s definitely not as well put together as new sun but it’s just as riddled with cryptic depth, like the fact that my dumb ass has read it at least twice and only just recently realized something like Hyacinth never really shows up once in the entire series, she’s possessed the entire time.

>>20184430
From what I understand the claw is actually the source of the healing and resurrection. The theories he comes up with that the pelerines in the lazarete and dorcas help him put together seem to me like they hold water. The claw doesnt heal wounds inflicted by humans, unless it's on aminals, the claw won't protect humanity from itself, the claw doesn't work on things that lost their humanity (some of these feel contradictory, idk). Anyways, i think It's that HE is also special in some way and was able to utilize the claw's potential. Maybe the claw didn't work sometimes because he didn't believe it should have in that situation, he lacked faith (?) That's a fairly Christian theme and Gene was a fairly Catholic man. The pelerines themselves didn't also understand the claw or think that it could heal. They didn't even know that the claw itself IS a claw, they thought the mark in the center was an imperfection in the gem. Sev also mentions at one point that he felt like he had the claw, even though he didn't, when he found triskelle. I could be wrong, I've still got about 10 chapters to go before I finish citadel, but that's what I'm grasping from the story so far. The claw is apparently able to bend time, so since he had it once AND he's LE CHOSEN ONE that means he always had it ??? I don't think it's fair to say that it was only the "The magic in him all along" >>20184357
i think it's both he and the claw.

>>20184463
Am I just a squishy faced retard or something because apparently everyone but me understood the Jonas robot was apparently Asian?

>>20184503
The claw was just a rock I thought? The real Jesus powers was severian believing in himself and the power of friendship

>>20184503
why would you even say all this when you havn't even finished it? You need to read through BoTNS twice before coming here and talking about it. the last quarter of the book refutes the last quarter of your paragraph. The beach chapter explains a lot.

>>20184504
Jonas basically implies that Asians (Kim names) took over the world yes, just like what is going to happen in real life. Wolfe was a smart lad he understood the dangers of Ascians and Asians

>>20184515
What I'm saying is I think it's both. I could be wrong, but that's where I'm at right now with my understanding. The Pelerines think it's just a rock, but what the fuck do they know? They haven't seen its power (if it was its power)


>be the claw of the conciliator
>probably am the finger of Jesus
>encased in a neat gem
>*doesn't work in your path* "lol, lmao"
>don't work when Severian needs me to work most, like on Lil' Sev,
>sucks bro, shouldn't've stolen me from my home
What was his fucking problem, bros?

>>20184532
I literally said that I could be wrong and that that's my current understanding of it. I'm not claiming authority here

>>20184492
>there is no hyacinth
Nigger what the fuck?

>>20184532
Also, I am going to finish the book tomorrow, but I'm still posting in the thread cause I don't want it to get archived. I've not seen a botns thread since I started browsing /lit and I'm having alot of fun talking about it with you guys

>>20184550
And I literally cant fathom why your talking about any of this when you are so near the end of Citadel. Turn off your computer, you haven't even read chapter 34 yet: The Key to the Universe. Do it all now.

>>20184569
Ignore him, it’s late and he’s grumpy. U wrong, but u cute

>>20184571
On my phone bby :*

>>20184574
Thx, fren. I'll come back to the thread when I finish it and continue shitposting,

gn fellas <3

>>20184503
aramini suggests from his conversations with wolfe that the claw does nothing. the miraculous powers were always from severian. you will have to ask aramini for elaborations.

I've read BOTNS and Urth, and have been spoiled quite a bit about Long and Short Sun, which I honestly don't mind because it will probably be a long time before I get to them, so spoilers welcome. I've always thought Typhon was a great character and understand that he appears as Pas in Long Sun. People say he is the father of the Megatherions. Do you guys buy that and if it is true is Typhon even a human? Also, why was he so sure he could enslave the powers in the deep and also defeat the armies of the Autarch age? If his power/authority was already waning when Severian visits him in the past, surely the chiliad(s) that have passed since have effectively made him a non-entity when it comes to power dynamics?

Reminder to give R. A. Lafferty a try if you like Wolfe. Completely different authorial voice and type of storytelling, but Wolfe admired him, and he truly is unique.

>>20184631
It’s sort of implied by one of his kids that she was originally a megatherian or undine and that the civil war he is fighting is against his own children who are rebelling against him for forcing them to leave the water and become “human.” He’s a fun character and power dynamics mean nothing to him seeing as how he’s essentially figured out how to escape mortality and because he must conquer, he lives only for conquest his pride and hubris won’t even allow him to contemplate that he’s losing or lost the war

>>20184692
Appreciate the response.
So would that mean Typhon was also originally a Megatherion who is now in human form? It seems the Megatherions have been around for a long time, which seems to suggest they have quite a long lifespan. It leads me to wonder what exactly caused Typhon to die originally.

On another note, the Hierodules are said to only live for 20 years and yet in Urth, if memory serves, they nod when Severian says Inire is a Hierodule. Yet we are told Inire has been around for a very, very long time. Is he of a different species, or is it possible he is doing what the other Hierodules are doing and simply arrives for brief moments of time to assists the Autarchs and this creates the illusion that he has been living for thousands of years.

>>20184556
Hyacinth is a man possessed by Kypris.

>>20175674
the quality is mediocre and the covers are actually printed on the binding, no dust sleeve

why didn't you save thecla-chan, anon?

>>20177448
But maybe exultants have ultra-dense scifi bones so you need an extra speshul sword

>>20178285
just keep reading there are some nice things about things things

>>20184778
Because a headmate is the only I'll get a gf.

what's with the whorehouse full of clones of the women from the court of the autarch

>>20183596
>he believes Severian when he said he perfectly remembers everything, despite events playing out differently from how Severian describes them
Mate... stick to Tolkein.

>>20185234
>clones

>>20185270
one, tolkien is great
and two, I realize he doesn't have perfect memory
but that seems more like exaggeration than lying
I don't think he outright fabricated any part of the story

>>20184357
he didn't know that then though
>>20184302
based based based based
I BELIEVE in severian

>>20184375
>he insulted and belittled sam
you know considering frodo's status as basically a nobleman with a large estate I'm surprised I haven't seen some video or something where frodo acts more like the stereotypical english victorian nobleman

>>20184436
>I assumed Abia or someone else hired him to kill and stop the new sun?
different A name

>>20184758
Thanks for the response anon.
Are pages stitched or simply glued? I can tolerate printed hardcovers, but I’d take a paperback over stiff glued pages in a hardcover spine.

>>20185638
glued

>>20185469
He’s not lying, he’s just telling events as he remembers them occurring in his perspective and how he think what the other characters are thinking. It’s been a while but like when he basically explains how thirsty jolenta is for him, that only happened from his perspective.

>>20184667
Yea, I'm reading Past Master right now. Interesting stuff

>>20175404
Just read someone's explanation on this, damn that's crazy. How do people figure this stuff out?

>>20175626

>>20183944

>>20185359
still, is a kinda disrespectful desu

>>20176124
I've always pictured the claw as red for some reason but in the book, it's described as illuminating blue light.

>>20184591
Aramini is cringe, I don't like his take on Fifth Head

>>20185694
like glued directly to spine like the penguin galaxy books or like library binding where you can lay the book flat?

>>20186976
the latter

>>20186792
It normally glows blue but it glows red when there are jews around to warn you of severe danger

>>20185270
>>he believes Severian when he said he perfectly remembers everything

>>20185270
behead those who insult tolkien

>>20187010
Ah, well then that’s not so bad.
I saw another picture showing the print on the spines and they look very nice. For only a few extra dollars over the grimy textured paperbacks I figure it’s worth it.

>>20186572
Autism, legitimate autism by people or an esoteric knowledge of of obscure references Wolfe makes that a common reader would never understand…so a different kind of autism. I’m sorry I don’t have a better answer for you. I’d have never figured out the womb thing without some autist explaining it like I was a child

>>20177287
>genuinely blew my fucking mind when I realized the tower was a spaceship
made me feel like a galaxy brain when i picked up on it as a kid
>the "old" lights that never extinguish
>some sentence about the men who flew to the sky
>"lightning" powers the torture device
>urth
>that one sentence about the "old" sand that is actually just silicon

>>20187262
allahu ackbar brother

>>20185270
He actually does have perfect recall. He omits a lot of information on purpose, as well as even lies to a certain extent, if you could call it lying.
He writes the book after he has already became an autarch and is on his way to be tested.
There is also more than one Severian.

>>20187468
Bless those autists. I guess I've gotta read more mythology/the classics but I think I'd still miss the point even if I did. It always blows my mind when someone can extract something like that from a book, makes me feel like a speedreader lol

>>20183596
literally in the first 100 pages of shadow of the torturer
>"i have a perfect memory and remember exactly everything correctly that i am writing down"
>"i cant remember what she said"

>>20184503
The first time he uses his powers is in Shadow before he even gets the claw he brings the dog Tryskel (or whatever it's name is) back to life by just touching it.

>>20187545
He also calls the bottom of the tower the combustion chamber, I didn't catch that on my first read through.

>>20181987
>The Castle of the Otter
Essays about the series and short stories based in that world. Centipede Press calls it the sixth book in the series. Hard to obtain.

>>20183539
Severian is a two-spirit cannibal rapist.

>>20184302
Whatever, I said he's not always a good person. He's mostly good, more good than bad, but he's also quick to violence, cruel, cowardly, and two-faced.

>>20184260
Very weak argument and analysis of the text. But like I said stop being an SJW. She got raped and it's okay.

>>20187888
when was he cruel
>>20187855
is it only new sun or does it include stuff from long and short suns

>>20187855
Was it printed exclusively by centipede press? Is that why it's hard to get? When I get books I like to have them all of the same style if I can. The centipede set looks really good, but they're all like over 1000$ used lol

>>20187888
Okay, it seems like both of our arguments don't contradict eachother. I do admit he has some vices, but I dont think any of them indicate that he's an unreliable narrator, and I've already made my case for that. The times he's lied in the story were usually directed toward people he was trying to decieve so he wouldn't be killed. The one time he lied in a "malicious" way was when he told lil' sev that he did everyrhing he could to save his mom, when in reality he hesitated. Even then, he did it so lil' sev wouldn't hate him immediately and try to leave; and he says it pained him greatly to lie to him.. He's a coward at times, he's a serial coomer, he's arrogant at times, but I still don't buy that he's unreliable when it comes to telling the story.

>>20187855
>>20188290
It was originally published by Ziesings, a bookseller. However, its complete contents are in the much easier to find Castle of Days (which also has some non-Sun short stories)

>>20187855
>hard to obtain
Dingleberry
https://www.amazon.com/Castle-Days-Short-Fiction-Essays/dp/0312890427/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1M1EGQCTUJYYA&keywords=castle+of+days+gene+wolfe&qid=1649384686&sprefix=gene+wolfe+cas%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-1

>>20183571
it's not even wolfe's hardest book
i would say Peace is a bit harder than Blood Meridian but BotNS is much easier than it

>>20175404
>>20186572
that explanation of WK is suspicious to me, there's a lot that it explains but also a lot that it doesn't explain
author intent isn't "solved" or anything, come up with your own interpretation

>>20185270
Severian would never lie..

>>20188789
Other guy already informed everyone it's contained in Castle of Days without being a faggot.

>>20173789
>does reading a series of books make sense without reading the first book in the series
Can any anons tell me if lotr will make sense if I don’t read pic related first?

>>20189045
What a bizarre phenomenon this is. Would you care to explain yourself, anon?

>>20173789
Is it really necessary for this guy to keep reminding me that he has a perfect memory multiple times in every chapter? Sounds like something someone with a faulty memory would say.

>>20189118
Yes. Severian's memory is in fact perfect, but his memories aren't.

>>20189118
>Sounds like something someone with a faulty memory would say
exactly

I just started this, its pretty good so far, severan is pretty weird which I like.

>>20177295
Do I need to read BOTNS to enjoy short sun?

>>20188993
The only faggot is the moron who didn’t even know castle of the otter was in print for the last 20 years and not hard to find at all, but wanted to pretend he was smart and had something relevant to add. Quiet down midwit, you’re drooling

>>20174288
I was just reading the first chapters of a few novels to see what I like. Wizard Knight, Home Fires, and There Are Doors hooked me. A Borrowed Man yes, not as much. An Evil Guest and Devil in the Forest, eh I'll come back to them after.

>>20189045
what are some series where it actually would make sense to forgo the first book?

>>20186587
Ergo Proxy actually sucks though

>>20184722
I've always thought this is silly, it's basically only because of the Greek god Apollo's Hyacinth, right?

But there's so much reason to believe this is not the case. And very very little to believe it is.
Number 1 being Chenille previously acquaintance with Hyacinth in the all-female brothel(?) when she was younger. This is presumably before she was elevated as Blood's most priced prostitute or had any modifications done to her.
We can square away the surgery she have had as breast implants and such, that is known information.
Doesn't Chenille even comment on it, like: "Those (referring to Hyacinth's tits) are new!". Like she was surprised about the huge tits, not a complete gender change.
Memory a bit fuzzy about this part. Just don't feel like it would make sense for Hyacinth to be some speical trap prostitute in the past.

I certainly don't think the fact that Blood was into men, gives us any reason to think his favoured prostitute would have anything to do with that. He seemed all business, that she would be his elevated because she was the most successful for his clients, not any personal sexual preferences on Blood's part.
Given that, why would Blood even have Crane perform such a surgery turning a hypothetical trap prostitute Hyacinth into a more of a woman. Like, what's the motivation and expected result here? I get that Hyacinth turned out to be HUGELY popular among his clients, but it's not like he would have any reason to believe that before making any decisions about surgeries and whatnot.
Blood didn't have any apparent affection for her, right? (besides as an object of his business)

If you want a reason for why Silk is having a breakdown after being with her for a while, I think you can square that away either as Silk just struggling with innate self-destructive inclinations. Or alternatively coming to know Hyacinth is awful, despite still loving her. Or both.
Possession messing with their brains?

>>20190790
I personally believe it only because it's whacky. That's my go to way to decide what theories to consider most plausible.

>>20190381
I think you could easily skip the first volume of Frankenstein, minus the letters. That's not a whole book though.

>>20189235
No, but you really ought to read Long Sun before Short Sun
Short Sun directly(well, *that* directly) follows the events and characters of Long Sun. I mean, it's fine, you'd miss out on a bit of contextualization. They are different books.
Long Sun is REALLY good.

New Sun, however is further removed from them, you'd get by without reading it. But.. New Sun is also REALLY good, so there's no reason not to read it, I think, if you enjoy Wolfe's other books
The Urth of the New Sun, follows New Sun. And is more removed from Long Sun/Short Sun, there you *need* to read New Sun.
ehh, all these books connects together and works off each other, but it's not like they are a series

All that said. Short Sun is also my favourite among the books, it really spoke to me. Has some emotional stuff that hit me hard. Beautiful stuff.

>>20174904
>go to their website
>tons of good-looking books
>any individual book is 70 bucks
what the fuck
I just wish there was some competition here
this set is like 210 bucks

Japanese translation of Solar Cycle series
Art by Final Fantasy guy and Death Note guy on Urth (Severian in with his breathing collar in his office on the ship)

>>20191711
Damn those are gorgeous.

Just got the new hardcover of shadow & claw. A bit disappointed with the paper quality, but very nice overall.

>>20191711
Who even is the colourful guy on Citadel of the Autarch at the bottom left?
The idea of an autarch, but not the actual existing one?

Also, dat handsome Severian with venetian executioner mask and fulgin coat... lel

>>20189346
Every day I wake up and thank the Pancreator that I'm not as retarded cuntish as some "people" on 4chan (like (You))

>>20173789
Filtered

>>20191711
I'm sure it's been said a million times but an anime adaptation of the series would be kino. It would be the only acceptable way to adapt it too.

>>20174531
>>20174846
>>20177295
>>20183657
>>20183880
>>20184492
>>20184631
>>20190940
What's the best review of Short Sun out there? Aramini? SS was more refreshing, relateable, and elegant a read than NS, but I'm still not seeing how anons can consider it his best work.

>>20182109
I imagine Dorcas as Drive-era Carey Mulligan, Thecla as Eva Green or Misato from Evangelion, and Severian as the guy who plays Polka-Dot Man.

I can fix her

>>20194503
>You beat my brother in a duel he proposed so he could cheat and murder you for material gain
>I want revenge for this injustice

Just finished it. I liked the first half, but Severian falling in love with every slag got tedious.Them falling for him also. It stopped being interesting wants he actual leaves the citadel. I understand they're some things i wont get on the first read, like the picture the old man is cleaning. But I just found these parts tedious i'm a plot character fag, and every wench that falls for chad severian gets tedious.

I guess severian is a villain but the story from his perspective so seems more positive even when he's beating women, but even then agia deserved it desu.

I check the rest out but I dunno. Meh overhyped for me.

>>20194503
Was she fucking her brother in the cell?

>>20185270
technically yes but he's literally a nutcase as well

You at the gardens anon? I bet most people either quit here or speed read to the end and never pic the book up again. For a torturer Severian doesn't do much torturing

>>20194714
book of the new sun is a harem anime, get used to it.

>>20194747
But for such a gloomy setting, it felt pretty lively and joyful. Around every corner is some sex bomb ready for sex.

>>20194684
Severian violated the NAP by refusing to name a price for Terminus Est

>>20173789

you could read it after the others, but you might find it lacking in tension, since you missed out on the stakes and character development

you should at least read the letter from wolfe at the end of book 1, since that explains various terms used in the document

>>20194732
he did it once, and told us about it
then he told us he did it many more times after, but don't care to tell us

>>20189235
you can enjoy short sun 1 and 2 pretty well without the original tetrology, but it will seem much more magical and opaque

>>20194714
The painting cleaner is Father Inire btw. He's also the famed artist he blabs on about and Little Severians grandparent tells a story about

>>20194503
Wait is this supposed to be Agia? I thought she had short dirty blond/ brown hair and didn't she have tannish skin? Am I retarded or are you guys retarded? Also this art style is kind of ugly tbqhf.

>>20173789
Why does /lit/ recommend books on how hard and intellectual they are rather than their enjoyability?

>>20194783
>>20173789
No. Don't indulge this kind of retardation. If you're going to read a book you can't just skip a fourth of it and say you've read it.
>can I skip the first 250 pages of Moby Dick?
>can I skip the first 20 cantos of Inferno?
>can I skip fellowship of the ring?
>can I skip the first third of this movie?
>can I skip seasons 1-3 of this show?
>can I start listening to this song halfway through
>can I make a bait thread on /lit/ and get 300 replies?
dxkpk

>>20194893
Because alot of times these go hand in hand. Reading a difficult book and actually comprehending it feels great. Don't be a smoothebrain. Challenge yourself

>>20194893
Bait or faggot. It's not Hegel dipshit it's a fun sci-fi epic that also has alot going on beneath the surface, so you can theorize and speculate about it, which is what will make the book timeless. It's wordy, but not in an intellectual literary way, it just uses unusual language to capture a certain feel, like Clockwork Orange.
Tl;dr, either I took the bait or you NEED to go back to Harry Potter.

>>20194714
jesus christ how old are you?

>>20194911
>can I skip fellowship of the ring?
Yes in fact just completely skip Tolkien.

>>20194927
You telling me that I need to get back to harry potter only illustrates that this book is indeed purposefully esoteric and met for pseuds like you to jerk off to and feel smart.

I just saw a summary of it on youtube and it told me how the book purposfefully uses obscure words from other languages and has underlying, complex philosophical and political commentary. This isn't a book to enjoy, it's a book to study and be bored.

>>20194849
Fuck that just ruined the whole thing for me, but I will read on anyway.

>>20194935
From 0-109. Why?

>>20194970
>>20194849
not true. Just a low possible theory

>>20194967
Ah, so it was bait. Well done sir you rustled my jimmies for a second there.

>>20173789
No. You are reading in the wrong order. The correct order is:
>Lexicon Urthus
>The Shadow of the Torturer
>The Claw of the Conciliator
>The Sword of the Lictor
>The Citadel of the Autarch
>The Urth of the New Sun
Now, before they try to dissuade you from reading the "spoiler-book", keep in mind you're reading Severian's memoirs in the Gene Wolfe books. Is it really a spoiler if you read some book on Caesar's life before reading his memoirs?
>>20177448
There's also the psychological factor. Imagine seeing someone carrying a sword without the tip, designed not for killing soldiers, but for executing prisoners.
>>20184503
You'll understand once you finish Urth.
>>20194065
David Lynch could theoretically adapt it into a high-budget series which would be cancelled after s02.
>>20192085
1. Severian
2. Severian again
3. What's-her-name Thrax noblewoman serial cheater
4. Autarch Ymar or autarch Appian
5. Severian
>>20194872
Just imagine her as a 5/10 girl next door you know IRL.

These Long Sun covers are gorgeous

>>20195042
It wasn't but whatever helps you sleep at night. I just don't have the time to read fiction that makes me think too much. I want a movie like experience, not a studious one.

>>20195228

>>20194849
how did you even figure this out?
I recently read botns and this doesn't click for me.

>>20195243
How hard is it to understand.. Judging from what I'm hearing about this book it's really deep and esoteric and you need to re-read it twice in order to get it. Yeah, ok, I'm a normie who likes books that are easy to understand, I don't give a shit what you call me.

I don't want to think too much. Thinking makes my head hurt and puts me to sleep. I have to be in the mood for that crap. So try to be more empathetic and understand other people's time and taste matter if you know what's good for ya

>>20195273
I read it online admittedly. The reasoning is Wolfe repeats almost identical character descriptions for multiple characters in a world where clones ostensibly exist. Considering theres infinite ways to describe a person, it seems deliberate that all three are "hunched" "monkey-like" and some other common factors. Same with the corpse at the start, Thea and Severian rembering him mother all being "heart shaped faces" and "pulled at his heartstrings."

>>20195286
If this is sincere, then I respect your honesty. I'm not at all intellectual that's why I'm arguing that BotNS isn't for smarty-pantses because I'm a tard and I loved it.

>>20194714
>Severian falling in love with every slag
What are you talking about, 7 women isn't a lot and maybe 2 of them develop real feelings for him. It's like you have no mind for nuance.
Thecla
>thinks she's going to be tortured and die, he's her only human contact
>he decides not to risk freeing her because he "doesn't love her enough", she calls him "a very sweet boy" and he resents it because he knows what it means
Thecla khaibit
>is a whore
Agia
>they don't have sex
Dorcas
>first person she sees after being resurrected from death, totally dependent on him
>eventually goes cold on him and leaves
Jolenta
>is a genetically modified mutant, barely a real person
>sleeps constantly because of her body modifications and gets raped cause he's annoyed
Cyriaca
>an aging slut so notorious for cucking her husband she nearly gets assassinated for it
Pia
>he saves her from slavery, like with chains and shit
>they sleep together for 1 night
Daria
>completely beat up ho of a camp follower

These situations are different and varied, they can't be describe as, oh he just fucks everyone, they all love him for no reason.

>>20195308
Well if what you're saying is true then I'll give it a go. But I don't like the feeling where I'm reading and I don't truly "get it" at the end. Zero catharsis.

I started with Book of the New Sun. Did I fuck up?

>>20195331
It's definitely not a book you understand completely at the end. It's like a puzzle in book form or a Jodorowsky film. That's why you get people writing chapter guides, thousand page essays and youtube podcasts with hundreds of episodes trying to decipher it. It's theorybait, as well as everything else it is. But I think there's an enjoyable surface-level genre fiction adventure even disregarding all else. It's not that big either. All four books of BotNS together is the same size as GRRMs Storm of Swords.
Reading this back I sound like a used car salesman but whatever it's a book worth shilling.

>>20195223
My book uses top right
I really love that cover

But.. Isn't it kinda spoilery to have such a revealing depiction of the Whorl?

>>20173789
I always wandere wtf is Severian standing on in this book cover?

>>20195511
It's where he executes the woman that was accused of being a witch,, uh, poisoning people? Just doing some execution work while he's passing through
It's described as some weird kind of platform

>>20195397
Not any more than the blurb for the first book
>The first volume of a four-book novel of mystery, war and revolution set in a world existing inside a giant spaceship sent from Urth to colonize a distant planet. Wolfe's new work returns to the world of his acclaimed Book of the New Sun and will captivate readers hungry for the magic of the future.

>>20187207
I don't remember that being from the book at all

>>20195328
>he knows what it means
what does it mean? friendzone?

>>20195328
Power rankings

Body
Dorcas > thecla (real) > jolenta > thecla(whore) > valeria > daria > casdoe > agia > pia > cyriaca

Personality
Dorcas > Thecla(real) > casdoe > daria > valeria > pia > thecla(whore) > cyriaca > agia

>>20182109
>>20194417
For me, Thecla will always be Debicki

>>20194849
this doesn't entirely follow for me
irine is a hierodule
wouldn't severian have noticed if the painting cleaner was wearing a mask?

>>20194944
gonna have to use the male side for this neck

>>20196754
How far have you read anon
The heirodules wear several masks

>>20196783
I finished Urth, I know
But their true faces are notable. I figure if the painting cleaner was a Hierodule and wasn't wearing any masks, Severian would have noted that, too

>>20196812
A theory I've seen is that Rudesind, Inire, and Fechin are really Tzadkiel. I suppose it supports Inire's ability to disguise himself and it would solve the issue with the Hierodule's weird faces. But I'm not sure I buy the theory.

>>20178613
8 is somewhat young, but not THAT young anon. I read through the Lord of the Rings when I was 10 and at the time books were only my second or third-favorite hobby next to games and hitting my brother with a stick. It would have been extremely difficult for such a small child, but if he were a bookworm it would have come to him fairly easily.

I just finished reading the first book, I really enjoyed it. Are the rest of the books as good as the first?

>>20182109
Your casting is somehow more cringe than genderfluid Sev

>>20196392
What does Valeria look like? I imagined her like a blondie dressed in all-black (like I imagined Thecla to be a raven-haired woman in all-black).

>>20197088
Genderfluid Severian would be required for faithful adaption anyhow. Otherwise it makes no sense that xe gets confused for a woman.

>>20195228
>>20195286
wow

>>20197012
I mean I guess it's possible
But that seems like a theory for the sort of people who just want to minimize the total amount of characters

>>20197159
it's magic nigger

>>20197125
I always thought of her as a more elegant dorcas

>>20197696
for me:
dorcas looks childish in a very real way, looks like a real person, but valeria looks ethereal, like she's ageless
both are short, thin, and blonde

Lads I read Shadow of the Torturer 6 years ago and forgot everything about it. You think I will be fine starting with Claw or should I reread?

>>20197848
You should probably reread it, fren. It's meant to be one book. Even if you'll end up remember parts as you come across, it's best to have it all fresh in your mind because alot of plotlines that start in the first are concluded in the third and fourth. You'll come across pleanty of little things too that harken back to the early stages of book 1 and if you don't remember them, you'll not get the full effect

>>20195328
I've only finished the first book. I'll have to find out what happens to these boring dull characters wants I have read them all. Hopefully they all die.

Someone draw a avern for me, I just assume it was like a rose. Also agia and her brothers plan seems overly complicated.
>Maybe she was hoping Severian would die at the botanic gardens.
>But this isn't her first time doing this plan
>Why not just kill severian with avern in his sleep?

>>20198105
If you don't like it, stop reading.

>>20198117
that would make it a murder
people who own property and can't just up and leave don't enjoy murder investigations
if her plan had worked (and it nearly did, sev did get hit) everything would have been much smoother for them

>>20198117
They were planning on stealing his shit in the garden of delectation after Agia fucked and sucked him into blissful oblivion, but he spent like half a day looking at sand and so they had to go with plan b, which was the actual fight.

>>20198130
I like Severian, the other characters not so much, also after reading some of these spoilers I want to see how he achieve his goal.

>>20190790
>If you want a reason for why Silk is having a breakdown after being with her for a while, I think you can square that away either as Silk just struggling with innate self-destructive inclinations. Or alternatively coming to know Hyacinth is awful, despite still loving her. Or both.

I've always read it as him agonizing over coming to terms with realizing she's been possessed, that the woman he loved was a complete fabrication and used by Typhon's family to manipulate him and his friends.

>>20194304
For me, I found it to be the most intricately woven of Wolfe's books in terms of how the narrative is told. It goes backwards and forwards in time, told first as an epistolary story, then interleaved with recent events, then in a recursive, impartial recounting (the narrator telling about his time on Green in third person), and finally ending at the beginning with the true narrator coming to on the Whorl, presaging the actual journey that's taking place.
Further, I think there's just a deep, vivid melancholy throughout the three books. The lost race on Blue, the death, disappearance, and haunting of core characters from Long Sun. The contradictory, hybrid nature of the Inhumi: vampires that must kill but only want to win themselves a soul. It's a labyrinthine, eerie, sometimes frightening, and profoundly sad ghost story.

>>20197072
They're even better imo

Just finished citadel
What a kino ride. Through and through
>mfw Severian he said he must soon don robes of argent, the color that is purer than white so fucking cool bros how is Wolfe so good with this pottery

N

>>20194721
Also want to know this

>>20195286
>>20195286
>reread twice
oh i wish my fellow zoomer i wish it needed to be read only twice

>>20195286
bruh I just reread each chapter instead of each whole book

I literally do not understand why anyone in this thread would not go with the original hardcover editions. Especially of books from that time. Simple and elegant. The new folio version is so loud. Whatever happened to good book art? It's like movie posters. They are all shit now.

>>20174904
One day. One day I’ll get this edition, God willing. I don’t care about inflation anymore.

>>20184302
Based. Exactly what I think. I take every single word that Severian writes literally and I absolutely hate this whole „but he’s lying“ nonsense.

>>20200007
Bro have you seen book covers? The "worst" cover for BoTNS is better then 99.9% of book covers. When a book cover isn't minimalist trash that I could make in 1 minute of MS paint it's cringe inducing 80s b-movie tier shit.

Finnish covers of the 4 New Sun books