/lit/ - Literature

Yeah, there's some.
inb4 Ossianfag ruins the thread.

Sir Walter Scott

>>20160665
It was me,
I was the one who shoot all the cattle with faerie arrows.
And I am not sorry about it.

>what to read?
check out the Canongate Classics series, covers most of the big names, works as good as any chart
>currently reading?
James Hogg's Three Perils of Man
>verdict?
KINO

>>20160665
This is a nice biography from a literal who from the highlands in the late 1600s who had a whole life of misadventures and signed up for a bunch of military champaign’s before becoming a rather famous fencing instructor who fought a lot of other fencing instructors. Its a pretty interesting read since he wasnt really litterate until well into his middle age, so its a rather different perspective then most literate people of the time.

Spoiler alert, Highland stereotypes are NOT a meme.

Incandescent Limbo, Kenneth WhiteD

>>20160665
aye

>>20160691
forgot pic.

he was kind of an asshole. but an entertaining one.

Not really, sorry. I guess there's 'Shuggie Bain', if you're into that.

Is this book not quintessential Scottish lit?

Hell yeah

>>20160665
Adam Smith- Theory of Moral Sentiments

wind in the willows :)

>>20160665
>Any good Scottish lit?
The Letters of Samuel Rutherford
Memoir and Remains of R.M. M'Cheyne
Human Nature in its Fourfold State by Thomas Boston
The Crook in the Lot by Thomas Boston

>>20161038
>Human Nature in its Fourfold State by Thomas Boston
When a book has a 5/5 reviews by morons leaving comments like "wow so good..... enlightening stuff...." you JUST know that it's about religion.

>>20161214
It's so good. Enlightening stuff. 5/5

God

>>20160665
Lanark by Alasdair Gray

>>20160665
Treasure Island, obviously

>>20161285
Kek, anon is pretty perceptive

Trainspotting will make you want to be a heroin addict

>>20161638
Depends on where you stop reading.

>>20160665
Everything written by Nigel Tranter if you're interested in Scottish history.

Who is the James Joyce of Scotland?

>>20163235

>>20160665
There's a better Scotland in general. It's called Ireland.

>>20160665
>good
>scottish
pick one

>>20160665
Hume, Burns, Irvine Welsh, etc
For a light I recommend Alexander McCall Smith who is kind of Scottish

>>20163260
Based. Scotchtards could never aspire to the likes of Joyce and Beckett.

>>20160665
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Demoman_responses

I truly enjoy me some Robert Louis Stephenson, particularly when read out in a hardly parsable accent.
George MacDonald Fraser is also great if you like less proper characters and stories.

>>20164318
I'm looking for something actually set in Scotland or about Scotland. Stevenson (not Stephenson) is just fiction, right?

>>20163260
Lmfao

>>20163334
>hume
>Scottish
Just like Michael gove
>>20164333
The Acts and Deeds of the Bruce
The Acts and Deeds of William Wallace
The Poems of Ossian in various collections, though many of these involve the heroes travelling to Ulster

For poem collections, in English, there are many of varying qualities
The Bannatyne Manuscript
The Asloan manuscript
The works of Dunbar
The works of Lindsay
The Maitland folio

George Buchan wrote lots very well, only one in English, but his history of Scotland isn't very accurate

>>20160673
He just ain't it

>>20164375
>George Buchan
It's Buchanan, retard.

>>20164665
I know this might shock an incel like you but spelling errors can occur on an image board

>>20164945
>I know this might shock an incel like you but spelling errors can occur on an image board
You're right, it does shock me.

>>20160665
I liked Filth by Irvine Welsh.

>thread about Scottish literature
>just Irvine Welsh, Scott and Hume
Ahh yes

>>20160665
The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner.
by James Hogg
it's excellent, it's exciting, it has murder and madness, and in terms of its narrative stance(s) not quite like anything else of its time.
I heartily recommend it.

>>20165081
>and in terms of its narrative stance(s) not quite like
Its because he wrote from the Scottish mindset, which was not promoted, not the English one which writers like Walter Scott used

>>20160665

>>20165110
that's nonsense.
Spoiler: it's because he tells the same story from the point of view of two different narrators, one of whom is the murderer, who attempts to justify the actions described by the first narrator.

Posted in wrong thread.
https://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poem/louse-seeing-one-ladys-bonnet-church/

>>20160673
Isn't he Canadian? I live in Canada (Halifax) and there's a statue of him beside my house

>almost 50 replies
>nobody has posted the greatest work of Scottish fiction
Sad!

>>20164992
>Welsh
>is Scottish

>>20164975
Ok, incel

>>20168096
It's OK or okay, not Ok.

>>20160683
Three Perils of Men and Women are underrated masterpieces of historical fiction and satire. Hogg is brilliant, and the fact that only really Confessions is in print with a major publisher is a sin.

>>20168471
its because of >>20165110

>>20160665

Do you want to narrow it down? Or do you want a shotgun blast of random good stuff? Is both fiction and non-fiction fine? desu, Scotland's non-fiction output is a bit more notable in terms of actual impact, but there is good fiction too

>>20168586
Fiction but also cultural. No sci-fi or fantasy, obviously. I don't get why people are recommending sci-fi just because the author is Scottish.

>>20160665
Gavin Douglas' translation into Scots of the Aeneid is very good, Pound claimed it was better than any in English.

Robert Burns. One of the most humane poets who ever lived, perhaps Scotland's greatest genius. Absolute personal favourite of mine.

Sir Walter Scott of course, although I haven't read him. Not quite my thing but just about the most influential author.

James Hogg a very underrated contemporary of Scott.

Hugh MacDiarmid is our great modernist poet. Tried to get into him but 2doric5me.

Muriel Spark and Alasdair Gray are two great modern/contemporary novelists. Lanark and The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie.

>all that history
>all those famous intellectuals
>all that scenery

Aaaaaand it all totally dies as a damp squib not-even-minor outpost of the Global American Empire, as the population becomes a retarded hyper progressive bunch of neutered males and women, begging to be overrun by refugees from shitholes and refusing to do anything except living on welfare.

>>20168669
which of these would be easiest to get into, language wise?

>>20168669
>perhaps Scotland's greatest genius
lmfao
>Hugh MacDiarmid
see above

>>20168675
Any of the novelists really

>>20168769
Problem anon?

>>20168777
Hugh MacDiamrid wrote in English clothed in Scottish words and Robert Burns would change to English when he felt the need to say anything serious.
Both represent pretty well the anglicisation going even further to destroy the local dialect after destroying the native language.
>>20168675
>which of these would be easiest to get into
desu i dont see why anyone would read the Gavin Douglas Aeneid thing honestly just read any modern English translation instead of a medieval one.
MacDiarmid should be ignored as I explained above and he used his works to try and promote Communism commonly

Just read Hogg and Burns in my opinion.
None of them are hard language wise except Douglas because he uses so many Latin words within his English.

>>20168783
>Hugh MacDiamrid wrote in English clothed in Scottish words and Robert Burns would change to English when he felt the need to say anything serious.
What's your point? Anon asked for Scottish authors and I gave a list of the most prominent. What's the relevance of your complaining how anglicised they were? They're the two most important authors in Scottish poetry.
>communism
Ohnoes. Imagine refusing to read a poet because their politics were bad

>>20168805
>What's your point?
Its fake nonsense and the author of it openly said that.
> They're the two most important authors in Scottish poetry.
No. No they aren't.
> What's the relevance of your complaining how anglicised they were?
Because he asked for "Scottish" literature
Not anglicised nonsense

>>20168817
>Because he asked for "Scottish" literature
>Not anglicised nonsense
Oh you're an insane nativist. Good day.

I have a very particular request...
I am driving to Edinburgh form the South of England. It's a 10 hour drive.
Would be nice to have an audiobook that would both get me excited about visiting Scotland and give me something to listen to on the way. Driving makes it hard to listen to dense text, so something that translates well to audio would be good.

>>20168827
>insane nativist.
you yanks are have broken heads

>>20168834
Boswell and Johnson's Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland and Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides

>>20168844
The guy shitting on Burns because he didn't write in pure Scots is the one with a broken head anon.

>>20168848
Thanks. I will listen to 10 mins of it to get an idea of what it's like.
Any novels that fit my criteria?

>>20168855
>Burns because he didn't write in pure Scots
"Just read Hogg and Burns in my opinion."
learn to read
why are you so sensitive to me saying anglicisation isnt a positive thing?

>>20168863
Perhaps Sunset Song by Lewis Grassic Gibson

>>20168872
>learn to read
So why did you 'lmfao' at me suggesting he was Scotland's greatest genius? Which he plainly was. No other Scottish author has anywhere near the brilliance, the humaneness, the deep influence across the world and enduring appeal among every kind of reader up to the present day. E.g. Matthew Arnold compared Burns to Goethe, Shakespeare and Aristophanes. Any other Scottish author would be embarrassed to be ranked in that company...
>why are you so sensitive to me saying anglicisation isnt a positive thing?
It's not a positive thing. Or a negative thing. Words are what you make of them. Criticising authors for using certain words and registers in and of themselves, apart from how they are put to work, is philistinism.

>>20168616

Ok, I'm not really that read up on pre-20th Century stuff because it tends to bore me. Fiction first

—— Early 20th ——
* George Douglass Brown – The House With the Green Shutters
Borges wanted to become Scottish after reading it. Pretty high praise

*A J Cronin –The Citadel
Young idealistic doctor turns on his values for fat stacks and gets whats coming.

—— Mid 20th ——
* Compton Mackenzie – Whisky Galore
Comedy. Possibly not as funny if you aren't familiar with island culture, especially the Hebrides. Still funny though.

* Muriel Spark – The Ballad of Peckham Rye
Probably better known for The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, but I always preferred this one. Has this antiquated (for the time) kind of style that drifts in and out of perspectives but does so really skillfully.

Late 20th
* Irvine Welsh – Trainspotting
Probably almost unreadable unless you are actually Scottish.

* Ian Banks – The Wasp Factory
Some weird psychopathic kid is haunted by having his dick bit off as a kid and deals with it by befriending a midget, building pipebombs, getting drunk, and inventing creative ways to kill wasps. If you can get the right edition almost worth it for the pages and pages of outraged reviews quoted as a foreword.

* James Kelman – How Late It Was, How Late
A shoplifter gets beaten blind by the police after a two-day bender and then tries to get his shit together.

——Contemporary (21st)——
* Douglas Stewart – Shuggie Bain
About a gay teen growing up in 80s/90s. All the classic Scottish themes: hating your parents, alcoholism and poverty. /lit/ will probably reject just because "globohomo" or something but the prose is great. Booker Prize hates Scottish books but they still gave it the award that year.

*

>>20168905
>No other Scottish author has anywhere near the brilliance, the humaneness
Try reading something in Scotland's language or translated from it idk bro maybe that would help.
>Or a negative thing.
A country's loss of its native culture is negative

>>20168916
Great, thanks. Appreciate it.

>>20168916
>All the classic Scottish themes: hating your parents, alcoholism and poverty. /li
fuck off

>>20168916

I'm dissapointed I have less 21st century stuff.

Non-fiction. This I can go further back in time for. Not really much of note produced since the 20th Century anyway

* David Hume – A Treatise of Human Nature
* Adam Smith – The Theory of Moral Sentiments
* Adam Smith – Wealth of Nations
* Adam Ferguson – Institutes of Moral Philosophy
* Thomas Carlyle – On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and The Heroic in History

>>20168937
I'm Scottish, and these do show up all the fucking time in Scottish literature. Poverty especially. Depicting poverty realistically has been one of the main unifying themes of Scottish lit throughout the 20th Century.

>>20168956
>and these do show up all the fucking time in Scottish literature.
*20th century literature
Because by then Scotland was pretty much totally anglicised with little differences between it and England and all the real jobs went abroad leaving little to do

>>20168917
>>20168960
Take your meds

>>20168965
please just fuck off if youre just going to play off autistic phrases

>>20168965

I'm all for dissolving the union because its a farce, but how much notable output did Scotland actually have before the Acts of Union? Even between the Union of Crowns and acts of union? Fuck all.

>>20168675
Prime of Miss Jean Brodie is very very good and not at all difficult

>>20168997

Yes, M Spark writes in English

>>20168993
Yeah basically all the good stuff was written in the 18th century when Scotland was invigorated by the new union

>>20168960
>*20th century literature

Can't even read to the end of the post where I mention its 20th century. /lit/ levels of reading comprehension

>>20168993
>e, but how much notable output did Scotland actually have before the Acts of Union?

John Barbour was the first man to seriously write in the English language since the Norman conquest
George Buchanan was one of if not the best Latin writers of the modern era
The first copies of Aristotle to enter Europe were translated by a Scotsman who later became top adviser to the Emperor of the HRE

That isn't all of it

>>20160665
David Hume

>>20169005

>>20169179
He is English in every way but birth

All of England's good literature was written after it joined Scotland in the Union

>>20169251
He has a Scottish body type

>>20169259

Also true

>>20169251
>english in every way but the most important one

>>20169266
>fat
>1700s
Hes English
The average Scotsman before the industrial revolution was 6ft 2 on average with entire districts having average heights of up to 6ft4

>>20169268
It isn't the most important outside of virgin minds and the new world

>>20168937
>>All the classic Scottish themes: hating your parents, alcoholism and poverty.
this is all britain kek

>>20169280
>if you believe genetics are important it means you never had sex

>>20169323

Scots write about it a lot more though

>>20169792
yes it does
if a man's only claim to being scottish is his ancestry he is in fact not scottish

>>20169960
no they dont

>>20170002
Says who?

>>20170027
The only outlier is JK Rowling but for some reason many people think she is from Scotland
But here it clearly shows that less than half of Scottish people believe really that a person being born to Scottish parents makes them Scottish

Hume was born, lived and died in Scotland. But he was really English y'see because he thought Ossian was fake. Before calling someone Scottish, please consult our resident schizo Ossianfag for confirmation.

A Scottish poem, translated.

Listen you, oh men of the house
To the tale of the vigorous cock
Which made my heart lustful
I put a song of this tale .

Though many pretty arboreal cocks
That were in old times
The his religious man has
A greatly hard cock.

The cock of my working priest
Though long and sturdy
For a while it has not been heard of
The thickness of his manhood.

His cock is too thick
This is not a lying tale
Never has this thickness been heard before
Or seen again.

>>20170094
>But he was really English y'see because he thought Ossian was fake
No its because he spent his whole life promoting Scots to act like Englishmen in every manner and because he paid a fortune to be taught to speak in an English accent.

>>20161321
Seconded.

>>20170120
Sounds like a very Scottish thing to do.

>>20160672
>Ossianfag
He has a name you know- ASF. Autistic Scottish Freak.

>>20170120
That is literally just southern scotland nobility. They're pretty much the same as northernmost england anyway.

>>20170051
People, especially Scottish people being surveyed by YouGov, are retarded. No one cares.

>>20172385
>especially Scottish people
If you're racist why are you here?

>>20171153
Wikipedia hands

>>20170051
wow yougov responders are inconsistent gatekeepers to scottish identity
jk rowling has no real connection to scotland but half of them say she's scottish
alisdair cambell has scottish parents but only 20%
sturgeon was born in scotland to english parents and is at almost 90%
the fuck

>>20172789
paedo

>>20170120
>the proof that Hume wasn't Scottish was that he had such a strong Scottish accent he had to be trained to speak comprehensibly to the English

>>20170051
>tony blair is not scottish because we don't like them
Irrefutable post

>>20172940
more like because he spent his whole life nearly in england
im sorry but scottish people get to choose who is scottish not you
>>20172928
>ignore half the post
kk troll

>>20173049
Scot here, I vote to strip Ossianfag of his Scottish citizenship.

>>20164318
Fraser isn't Scottish you retard.

>>20173092
Scot here, I say he's Scottish.

>>20173079
I'll be honest I have no idea what you're talking about

>Scottish here
Idk why the English keep saying that.
Is that how people say hello in England or something?

>>20173114
Scot here, we say "Scot here" not "Scottish here"

>>20169251
>born in Scotland to Scottish parents from Scottish families and born and raised in Scotland
>Not Scottish
SNatzi 'No true Scotsman'-ing again.
>>20169266
>>20169268
Its some snp reddit downy who is trying to "reject" certain people as Scottish because they are "heckin problematic" because Hume was a "racist" and also because he supported the Empire like most Scots at the time.

>>20173125
im more scottish than you saxon

>>20173102
Better off just saying he's British tbf.

>>20173130
>No true Scotsman'-ing again.
hes literally not scottish
everything about him was english except his birth

Scotch here, on my paternal grandfathers side: we are drunks. Hume was English, not Scotch

>>20173132
>t. furry living in Carolina editing Wikipedia

>>20173132
*sips out tea*
I say!

>>20173130
>ematic" because Hume was a "racist" and also because he supported the Empire like most Scots at the time.
probably more because he opposed everything scottish

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (Sherlock Holmes)
Sir Robert Louis Stevenson (Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde)

>>20173140
Better off just saying he's Based tbf

>>20173148
no i was born in scotland and speak the scottish language
>>20173151
>Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
idk if he felt he was scottish

>>20173154
a very jewish post

>>20173158
>scottish language
and you were doing so well up until then, not.

>>20173171
what

>>20173150
>one of the leading figures in the Scottish Enlightenment
>Not Scottish
I bet you're a fenian as well.

>>20173173

It's generally called "Scots", not "scottish language": but even then is it Doric, Shetlaen. Lallans or another variant? Distinctions you would understand if you were an actual speaker

>>20173174
>Enlightenment
LMFAO
>>20173178
I dont believe ive heard anyone call gaelic Scots but idk that just me
Scots uses applies to the English spoke in Scotland but idk what i know maybe they know more about Scotland in england where youre at

>>20173184

Scots Gaelic is generally called Gaelic in Scotland. It's not the "scottish language". It's related to Irish Gaelic, but only Irish Gaelic is referred to as "Irish", because Scots is something else.

KINO!!!!

>>20173184
>he thinks Doric is gaelic
holy fuck, keep digging this hole you larping retard.

>>20173203
>is generally called Gaelic in Scotland
As opposed to Scottish Chinese or Scottish French? Its a stupid term and never should be used.
>It's related to Irish Gaelic,
Yes I'm very aware of that.
>>20173208
When did I say Scottish English was Gaelic?
Bizarre.
I said I speak Scottish which is just Gaelic.

>>20173218

>>20173218

Mate, literally nobody in scotland calles Gaelic "Scottish". We call it Gaelic.

Scots is a totally different language my man

>>20173224
>We
Cool but I don't.
>Scots is a totally different language my ma
"Scots" is not a language and I never mentioned it so I do not understand your point.
I said "Scottish" not "Scots"

>>20173232

>>20173244
I don't understand why you're so angry at me speaking our, ?, countries language.
Is that offensive to you?

might as well ask itt
where are some good places to visit in scotland other than edinburgh and glasgow?

>>20173251
Shetland Islands. Google the Shetland cows. Isle of Skye. Highlands (Inverness or Fort William).

t. never been to Scotland

>>20173251
none
theres nothing

>>20173251

Aberfeldy has nice scenery. You can visit the Birks and see where Robert Burns was inspired to write a poem.
Inverness is a good launching point for Loch Ness and other highland adventures.
Islay if you like (smoky) whisky, the north-east coast if you prefer it milder.
Skye is fun for seeing the puffins and seals
Arran has a nice hike from where you can see the coast of Ireland on a clear day.
The Hebrides and Shetlands are good too.

>>20173247

I will consider my neighbour Pajeet born here Scottish before I would an American. Gaelic speaker or not

>>20173278
>e I would an American.
err well im not american so i dont see your point
>I will consider my neighbour Pajeet born here Scottish
fuck off blackie

>>20173278
>and Shetlands
nice try mate but youre english
its amazing how you always get exposed
no one in scotland would ever say that

>>20173274

Possibly if you are a lardass yank and can't handle walking up a hill for more than an hour

>>20173308
scotland is dead country mate
you do realises countries all over the world have hills?
anyway please stop pretending to be scottish and making fun of us cheers

What I've learnt from thsi thread is that the simpsons were right, the Scots are a contentious people

>>20168916
>>20168951
>>20168669
>>20165131
>>20163257
>>20161038
>>20160877
>>20160779
>>20160673

Thanks to the anons who actually recommended books instead of sperging out

>>20173321
theres only one scot in this thread and lots of angry irishmen and englishmen

>>20173391

No Irish person would care about pretending to be Scottish

>>20173407
lmfao theres loads of anger from irish authors and that about scotland

some other Scottish related books I enjoyed reading not yet mentioned afaik
Catherine Carswell - The Life of Robert Burns
Ernest Mossner - The Forgotten Hume (mostly about his attempts to promote some now-forgotten Scottish writers)
Walter Scott - Guy Mannering & Waverley
John Buchan - Witch Wood (kino!)
Eric Linklater - Magnus Merriman & The Royal House of Scotland
James Barke's novels on the life of Burns
Boswell's Journal of a Tour to the Hebrides with Samuel Johnson
Alan Bold's Life of MacDiarmid
Hugh MacDiarmid - Lucky Poet & The Company I've Kept & The Islands of Scotland
MacDougall Hay's Gillespie I thought was flawed at the time but it's stuck with me
also, i remember once reading a Penguin Classics book of Sanskrit poetry, which strangely included various poems rendered into a kinda pseudo-medieval-Scots, with references to Dunbar and all

>>20173417
>Scots,
no such thing

>>20160665
I've read Filth and Marabou Stork Nightmares by Irvine Welsh. Both were good but I'd recommend Filth more, I really liked it.

What is with this arsepain about Burns writing poems that are intelligible to English speakers? Burns's poems are good and they are worth reading.
Ian Banks's The Wasp Factory is alright. Apparently he wanted to write SF, but no one would publish it, so he wrote some literary fiction first. I've only read the first book of his Culture series and thought it was terrible.

>>20168916
>/lit/ will probably reject just because "globohomo"
the absolute state of western intelligentsia