/lit/ - Literature

No one writes in /wg/

Opinions on punctuation's extent and application?

I realized the first chapter of my book is wayyy too long (over 90 pages), so now I'm reworking it into a 3-4 chapter story arc.

From a world building perspective, what other areas of study would, while not necessarily having to go in-depths, be considerations during development?

>History
>Nations
>Inhabitants
>Politics
>Culture
>Religion
>Military
>Science
>Geography
>Climate
>Resources
>Zoology
>Magic

>>20166344
If you’re from /sffg/ I hope you deleted your previous post of this.

Also, culture and religion, followed by politics.

>>20166348
>Merriweather 10.5, 1.5 space
Who the heck told you to do this? Such eclectic choices…

>>20166274
I do, but every time I post it here, nobody likes it.

>>20166344
Language, Economy, and Astronomy? depends on your setting and how much it differs from Earth. There're sub-categories like "ethnic groups," "historical figures," "and "the supernatural" to consider.

>>20166360
Write better stuff and maybe that’ll change.

a local bookseller wants to read my stories. wgmi.

>>20166376
my criticisms weren't grammar, syntax, or even prose.

It was the subject matter.

>>20166360
You will be hard pressed to find anyone who can look at writing with unbiased eyes. Unless it falls within their niche, dissenters will make themselves known. You may be better off seeking a community for whom it's purpose is to assess outside of their comfort zone.

>>20166527
Then what’s the point of this general.

>>20166539
Not writing, that's for sure.

>>20166539
Masochism, like every other feedback seeking individual on 4chan

>>20166274
No one *reads, fucking tourist learn your memes

Anyone wanna read a passage I wrote today? It's pretty weird but I think I like it.

Pastebin if you'd prefer:
>https://pastebin.com/G2tc9QTQ

Feedback greatly appreciated. Thanks.

hot off the press fuirst draft chapter 19 book 2 imn so high
https://pastebin.com/LeLDSv5r

How the fuck do I edit my own work? I have 92k word novel but idk how to start editing it.

>>20166856
Let it sit for about 3 weeks, then order a proof copy in the mail. You can do that through Amazon. Read through it like a book and have a pen on hand to strike through words and make notes. Then start editing the document itself.

>>20166477
>It was the subject matter.
Write better, more interesting stuff and maybe that’ll change.

>>20166813
I don’t read often so my opinion really shouldn’t hold any of weight, but it seems like you’re giving a hell of a lot of detail than things that aren’t really that important.
You definitely know more words than I do though.

>>20166813
It’s well written and descriptive, but is this a solitary piece or excerpt? It’s good for flash fiction, but too verbose for me to want a whole short story like this. Heck, it could even work if you formatted it as poetry. But, as early as the first paragraph, I was thinking “this guy is trying to get his money’s worth for his Thesaurus.” *I* liked reading it, but a larger audience may tire of it before finishing.

>>20166913
Let me also add I realize what you were doing with this long drawn out prose for the mosquito’s life and appetite, but then a short, to the point, blunt paragraph for her killing it. It’s effective for whatever literary device that would be considered (I’m bad at remembering all the names that aren’t metaphor, simile, or irony). I wanna say metaphor for how you think your personal life is this wondrous, beautiful thing, but the guy that just cut you off in traffic couldn’t give two craps about you or your stupid life.
That makes me think it’s just a contained story, and it’s definitely better that way.

>>20166856
you have to re read it. Holy shit. Editing is such a pain in the ass. Especially when you know what the story is about.

Holdink stronk on 1k+ wurd average a day.
I would also like to dedicate this post to Kaiju anon.

>>20166813
Some of it was good but I didn't like the purple prose
>slanting spears of gentle gold and white
>glorious arpeggios and arias
Also if the dawnbirds song was solitary how can there be other birdsongs drowning it out?
>yawning abyss
This is the wrong scale for the tiny cocoon of an insect, it doesn't flow

When the mosquito starts flying it adds some momentum and direction to what's happening, so too does the hunger motivation of the insect start to shape things up.
I felt like the scene setting of the garden/grotto was gratuitous
When Murki slaps the bug, I feel like that is the real introduction to that character. Going from the sleeping Murki intro, to over the top garden descriptions, then back to Murki with perspective change, is kind of disjointed.

So in my humble opinion
Don't bring Murki into it until she slaps the bug
Cut the garden description in half and/or make it less purple - I think you want to get to the bug faster

I like that you changed perspective/scale from the bugs world to Murki suddenly squashing it, it's a good move

>>20166813
I really hope you're not just writing from a thesaurus. As a short piece it's really good, but too "poetic". I learned from Robert Jordan it's better to write contemporary , then add in a few "buzz" words to make yourself sound smart.

>>20166856
For grammar and spelling, middle school teachers and writers alike will tell you to work backwards, sentence by sentence. It harder to just skim or get lost in the story, so you’re only focusing on actual mistakes and if a sentence sounds good on its own or not.
This method doesn’t work for recognizing the flow of your story, so after the mistakes are taken care of, print it off or do the Amazon copy like the other anon said (but printing will be quicker, if not cheaper). Read through it just like a book you didn’t right and pay attention to flow and consistency. That’s really all editing is until you get feedback to write the 2nd/3rd draft: grammar, spelling, and how sentences sound.

>>20166855
>Tad pushed aside his concerns over Toran being locked away in the elves’ Chimney Fortress, along with that scary half-dwarf mage, as he surveyed the bakery floor.
>Above the noise roar of the ovens, the squeaking of wheels laden with trays of biscuits, and the murmur of conversation which varied in degrees of relation to work, there was a nagging chirp which sounded intermittently.

I just read the first 2 paragraphs and sorry it's rough. In addition to all the cluttering words you order your sentences backwards - the final point shod be first in both those sentences for flow/so the reader can picture the scene properly.

>>20166948
Okay ll edit

>>20166933
Is it just me, or is this the real problem actually starting to write for the day? Once I get going, a thousand words is bitch easy. Heck, I finished a 2,000+ piece in two hours after not being able to sleep and coming up with the premise of the thing.

>captcha: HATSY

>>20166906
Your thoughts are valuable, too, Anon. Thanks!

>>20166942
I did not use a thesaurus, for what it's worth. I usually don't write prose this purple but I wanted to try something different. Thanks.

>>20166913
I know what you mean. It was meant to be the introduction scene for a character but I think it kinda turned into a flash fiction. If I did write more I would certainly switch styles.

>>20166921
Definitely what I was going for. Thanks.

>>20166934
Thanks for the in-depth feedback. I was trying to experiment with scale here, like I wanted the "camera" to be really zoomed in on the mosquito. Other comments about the prose and pacing are helpful, too.

>spend about 3 months reimagining my scifi setting
>take a break to read other scifi to get some inspiration
>find xeelee sequence and realize my setting was dabbed on before i even did it
its not fair bros i keep thinking im coming up with original ideas and someone else already did it

>>20166968
It's like going to the gym. Once you get there it's actually really easy, but getting your ass to the page can be the hard part. For me I'm always scrambling to get my ass to the page because I feel like I'm about to cum my pants if I don't get it all out. And then suddenly I get to a stone wall and have to grind a bit to get past it. But I'm always there.

>>20167003
If that's the case, then you have a very strong vocabulary bank. I kneel.

>>20167022
Oh, well I had to look up the mosquito terminology ofc

>>20166968
Depends on what your writing and if it has to be factually concurrent within you universe or not. I can do 3-4k a day easy, but accuracy with different pov's really costs me.

>>20167018
>The series spans billions of years of fictional history, centering on humanity's future expansion into the universe, its intergalactic war with an enigmatic and supremely powerful Kardashev Type IV alien civilization called the Xeelee (eldritch symbiotes composed of spacetime defects, Bose-Einstein condensates, and baryonic matter), and the Xeelee's own cosmos-spanning war with dark matter entities called Photino Birds.
Looks fucking awesome. Thanks for the rec anon

When writing something like a short story, do you do a lot of planning or prep?
If so, what does this process consist of?
Could you give an anon some tips, I have experimented with short form writing, but never anything concrete. Thanks

>>20167122
god dammit it even ends the exact same fucking way as my setting with all the warring alien races gathering together to escape this universe in face of an unstoppable threat ITS NOT FUCKING FAIR GOD DAMMIT
but yes it is very good from what ive read so far highly recommended

>>20167151
Just start writing and the story will unfold before you. Then revise and edit.

>>20167172
I think the issue is I'm incredibly disorganised. I need to set aside some time to write now since the summer is getting closer.

>>20167181
I don't know what you're looking for, Anon. Either you have an idea for a story or you don't.

>>20167151
I’m not an expert in it. I’ve only written 9k words of a fantasy novel that I shelved to practice on short stories; a ~2.5k finished rough draft; and currently working on what is now 6.5k words but will most likely be closer to 8 or 9k by the time rough draft is finished.
With that disclaimer out of the way, I’m definitely a pantser when it comes to short stories. I don’t come up with an outline or plot, but I usually know the beats of the story. Like, in the past two weeks, I’ve come up with 16 interesting starting points that could be a short story. 9 of them I could give you the vague points I want to hit, while the rest are just premises or settings with one or two characters. Either way, I like to go with the characters and let them do want they want to do on the way to those destinations points. My next short story will be about the troubled relationship of a struggling writer and his gf, and I know how I want to start the r. draft, some of the conflict they get into, and how I think the story concludes. Other than that, I’ll be finding out what happens in their life as they go through it.

>tl;dr get the basic premise and some story beats you want to hit and let the characters do the heavy lifting of getting their. (This does mean you need to know your characters well enough to understand how they’ll react to different situations, though)

>>20167196
I have a good few ideas. Just the idea of turning it into an actual piece, do people with experience have some sort of pre-production or pre-writing phase in which they outline the plot/ characters etc. or is this overthinking it?

>>20167218
>getting their
>their
Nevermind, don’t listen to me. I’m a hack fraud petaling lies and slander.

>>20167163
>hey lemme spoil the ending for you
>but yeah it’s good, go read it
Anon, y r u like this??

>captcha 44802
First all numbers one ever for me

>>20167227
LOL. Yeah, I relate to your process. W. some of the short stories I have drafted, I have written some separate pieces of character study. Sometimes this helps, sometimes this gets me confused. I'm still finding my groove, I think.

>>20167219
Of course, a lot of people outline before writing. I would argue there's less of a reason to outline a short story than a novel, but you do you.

Try doing a skeleton outline with bullet points, then construct the story scene by scene before writing. It's up to you to find out what works best.

>>20167246
OK. Cheers.

anyone who hasn't seen this meme yet want to review gang weed the movie? i'll edit your work in exchange

https://www.scribd.com/document/551280851/Unfiltered

>>20167233
sorry anon i just thought that was such a crazy idea for an ending, i guess its really not when you think about it . ill have to think of how to do it differently

>>20167151
>>20167172
The more I write the less I outline, it just constricts your ability to follow sparks of creativity. At this point I just have a running list at the bottom of the doc of lines/ideas I want to get to eventually use (and my ideal end-point) but they're only suggestions and almost half get cut or reworked.

So I guess my suggestion is to try going minimalist and adding more, rather than a big dumb chart of beats and working down like I did.

Is there a book to learn to not write like an ESL? I've read Grammar books but every single one has been like for college students to learn to write essays. I literally want to learn basically shit like commas and where words go and stuff

>>20167332
It’s been a while since I’ve read it, so it might not be exactly what you’re talking about, but Strunk and White’s Elements of Style is a concise and goes over basic stuff like that iirc.

>write female lead
>she's always getting sexually harassed
>get called out for being creepy and "rapey"
>write without the sexual harassment,
>critics now think I'm writing a guy but calling it a girl
This is impossible.

>>20167368
Post excerpts of both stories.

>>20167332
Read books in English and emulate those styles in practice writing until you naturally start to synthesize your own.

>>20167368
>write female lead
A mistake, to be sure

>>20166873
So bezos can steal the plot if it’s good?

>>20167368
>write a female lead whos an obsessive scat fetishist
>get called out for being weird and disgusting
>write without scat but now she blows farm animals and passing old men
>critics now call the police and tell me to stop 'mailing my disgusting fetish erotica to their sister/mother etc'
I know anon, we can't win

>>20167332
>commas
Commas are audible pauses and interjections. Meaning, if you could say the sentence without it (some would say cut it) you bracket the interjection with commas. They’re used in lists (in American English at least).

Editors will fix your word placement if they feel the story is worth it. Being ESL is a selling point these days and most Americans don’t have good grammar anyway.

>>20167332
Just take a piece of writing you like, remove all the punctuation and then attempt to punctuate it yourself. You can also scramble the sentence order of each paragraph to learn syntax (or even word order for each sentence). You'll learn a lot more from doing this once than reading a grammar text five times

>>20167368
>writing stories with women in them
your first mistake

>>20167368
Instead of writing a female lead, write a female who is intrinsic to the main plot and shows up frequently, but requires a man to guide her through her journey. Basically, literary hand holding. You'll get a lot less flack for it.

Does perspective have to be consistent? I want to switch between a 3rd person omniscient perspective and a 3rd person limited for the main character.

>>20167503
sounds fine to me

>>20167507
Any books that manage something like this well?

>>20167503
I personally find it to be a waste of narrative. Unless you're attempting to convey something detailed about another character that can't be explained through action or foreshadowing (which it generally should 95% of the time), third limited is the better of the two.

>>20167503
Switching between limited and omniscient is barely switching at all. Omniscient is a circle that contains limited as a smaller circle. Unless your omniscient voice and your limited voice are drastically different, you can play around in that continuum really easily

>>20167500
Then I'll get flack for "woman that always relies on men" and can't be "independent" and "strong", which is even worse.

>>20167503
Maybe, instead of 3rd omni and 3rd limited, switch between 3rd omni and 1st person? For variety, if it fits you can make the 1st p. be in the form of diary entries so it’s not as jarring. 3rd limited imo is just 1st person but with he/his instead of I/my.

>>20167368
The main female in my book is a robot. So when someone tries to punch her or rape her, she overpowers them or they break their hand attacking her. I had a black guy punch her in the face only to have his own hand broken.

>>20167368
>https://youtu.be/pBz0BTb83H8
The only correct way to write women.

>>20167512
100 years of solitude is a fantastic example of this. The narrator is technically omniscient, and seamlessly floats into and out of the minds of the characters. It's a great book.

>>20167582
Jack Nicholson is great.

>>20167567
It sounds like you just can't write women well. If you actually want to make your writing stronger, you should read some books with women MCs.

>>20167593
Jane Eyre gets flak for "LOL suddenly money from inheritance! and MR ROCHESTER! I must forgive him even thoguh he's married and has a wife"

Silvia Plath's Bell Jar was criticized for the woman for being overly emotional

Holy shit man, even women can't write women without running into trope critique

>>20167610
It’s almost like women are irrational beings.

>>20167567
But this time it's a factual statement.

>>20167610
>>20167610
Both of those books are widely loved classics. I think you're just making excuses.

>>20167623
I'm not saying they're bad books. Bell Jar, Jane Eyre, P&P, and even Tess of the Durbervilles are all great books, and all those are considered "well written" female MCs, which now get criticized and flak for whatever someone can think of.

Even shit like Hunger Games girl is "It's a boy, but with boobs."

>>20167640
If someone tells you you've written a bad female character, then they're probably right. Especially if it's a women telling you. Go back to the drawing board, try again.

What do you think of a horror novel where you have 30 or so different horror scenes, each running for around 10 to 15 pages? Would that be too much or would it be refreshing in a world of insufferably slow-burn horror with little pay-off? If it matters, the theme is sea monsters.

>>20167660
>If someone tells you you've written a bad female character, then they're probably right. Especially if it's a women telling you.
Nobody listen to this retard. Honestly if someone says you’ve written “guy with boobs” just through some progressive bullshit in their face like “Oh are you say a women is incapable of doing the things a man would do? That because she’s a woman, it’s unrealistic for her to act like this?” Or just say your character was born male and now identifies as female. That’ll throw troons for a loop.
It doesn’t fucking matter, because you’re character is imaginary and can act however the fuck you want them to. If I write a book about a fucking pigeon exploring Ontario, who’s going to tell me my pigeon is just “guy with wings”? It’s *my* character and *I* get to choose the mental illness!

>>20167660
I'll disagree. If one person tells you you've written a bad character - female or otherwise - take it as a datapoint and consider the criticism. If more people pile on that's when you know.

>>20167667
It better be an anthology like “scary stories to tell in the dark” and cut the number down to 15.

>>20167667
Write it and we'll figure it out.

>>20167686
I always wanted to try a anthology of short stories with the same characters. And a final story that ties it all up. Is there a book like that?

>>20167684
Good point. Other Anon made it seem like a lot of people were telling him his female characters were bad, though.

>>20167682
You're dumb

https://youtu.be/ybH97I7k_3M

>>20167848
the opening scene of my current project came to me in a dream, with the details of the rest of the story and setting cascading through the back of my mind as the scene played out

>>20167699
>NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! YOU HAVE TO WRITE HYPER REALISTIC WOMEN!!!! YOU CAN'T JUST NOT CARE!!!!!! HELP ME NIGGERMAN I'M GOING INSAAAAAAAANE!!!!!

anyone writing poems? I keep spamming them out into a google doc, and sometimes I share them with friends, but I'm thirsty for a wider audience and a reaction from people who have no reason to be nice to me.

>>20168009
most are pretty short and on whatever I'm thinking about at the time. I'd love to hear what people think, or read what other people write, but only if they aren't filthy heathens who don't know how to get enough rhymes in.

>>20168016
not all of it is goofy (tho a lot ends up being)


Good Bye
Speech beyond my reach I do beseech don’t let me leech but let me go
If it’s my time then I am fine with that I’ve come to terms
After all that I’ve seen and I’ve done and I’ve lived I’ve been(/am) blessed to know you
And I want you to know that this being so hard tho my straits so extreme
Is a beautiful thing
Peace comes easier when you know you are loved
This much.

>>20168038
>Speech beyond my reach I do beseech don’t let me leech
Stop that. Are you ESL?

>>20168058
no, ENG/DE.
whats wrong with the scheme?
the vibe is intended to be long lines with repetition,
followed by sorta jarring short lines to create pause

>>20168081
How much poetry have you read? Not written — read.

i love writing but find it difficult to move into the middle ground of a book. I've finished 2 before and a bunch of short stories + poems but, even with those, I struggled. What do you do to make the middle part easier?

>>20168091
>What do you do to make the middle part easier?
Nothing easy is worth doing.

>>20168094
perhaps i shouldn't have wrote easier but i mean how do you improve writing it? would you just begin writing from the middle of two events but not conclude it?

>>20168098
>would you just begin writing from the middle of two events but not conclude it?
Sure, why not?

>>20168085
first gut response is -a lot.
but not sure how to quantify that
I don't dispute that one is not conventional structure, but not all poems have to be imo

for comparison here's one that is

Since the day Cain murdered Abel,
Gore has fertilized our earth.
Man has killed -- base pleasures to enable,
Man has died to prove his worth.

So often gutters crimson run
For(With?) misdirected passion.
It does not become a decent people
To behave in such a fashion.

Gouting out from neighborhood slashes,
Common vitae pours from common vein.
The social pyre will be reduced to ashes,
As we are, we cannot remain.

Now comes the heroic challenge,
Bear a better world upon your back.
Still time to staunch Potential’s hemorrhage,
Be the gentle healer, not the quack!

Tho up to our ears in blood, still we can tell--
If Humanity’s Song shall be Dirge or Noel.

I'm green.
if I was nice, I'd be mean.
if I was fat, I'd be lean.
if I was dirt, I'd be clean.

I’ve got a green apartment with a green skylight,
I’ve got green brothers, they’re going alright.

I'm red.
if I was leading, I'd be led.
if I was foot, I'd be head.
if I was alive I'd be dead.

I've got a red cube with a red pit trap
people come visit, they fall in, oh crap!

I’m white.
if I was day, I’d be night.
if I was huge, I’d be slight.
if I was wrong, I’d be right.

I’ve got a white pod, where I keep my shit.
I keep my shit there, but that’s about it.

I’m gold.
If I was hot, I’d be cold.
if I was fresh, I’d be mold.
if I was young, I’d be old.

I’ve got a gold mine, I keep in a box.
But I don’t take the gold, I just take the rocks.

I’m pink.
If I grew, I would shrink.
if I was lead, I’d be ink.
if I was feel I’d be think.

I’ve got a pink tower with pink power-lines.
I’ve got a bookshelf the books have pink spines.

I’m gray.
If I was chained I would stray.
if I was lie, I’d be lay.
if I was straw I’d be hay.

I’ve got a gray sky that belongs to me.
yes, you can use it, once you pay a fee.

>>20166813
I adore heavily descriptive work with very thick vocabulary, so I really like this. Well done fren, mirin word bank

>>20168162
big bill wurtz vibes, I like it
but I can't believe you'd charge for using the grey sky, thats unconscionable

I think I'd change it to "bookshelf whose books have" tho

>>20168311
oh and swap the order of that line and the power lines one

cap: HGHTV, for when you are done with estrogen youtube

>>20166813
Very good. I approve wholeheartedly and without reservation.

>>20168162

This was fun and weird, I think it walks the line between weird incel teen author obsessed with sex and weird just right. Could do with some editing and cutting back though. The sandwich bit added nothing.

>>20168311
>big bill wurtz vibes
I had to look up who this is and I would agree.
>big social media star vibes
There is, of course, nothing worth half a shit in zoomer pop-culture stars.

>>20168162
The poem is genuinely one of the most fun things posted in these /wg/ threads in forever. The kind of stuff that invariable of people's opinions I can see as being part of the body of work of some famous author, just in how solid it is.

>>20168398
>The kind of stuff that invariable of people's opinions I can see as being part of the body of work of some famous author
Maybe in the same way that, invariable of people's opinions, you can find The DaVinci Code in every airport convenience shop.

Guys, how good is Aristotle's 'Rhetoric'? I've started reading it now, and there are some new insights I haven't thought of before, like that metaphors must be in the same category of things, or that poetic language if used must pretend to be normal, and not excessive as then it looks like poetry itself, rather than prose. Is reading it worthwile this day and age? Or would I be better off just reading something modern?

>>20168521
You're better off reading actual fiction, and writing. There's nothing to learn from academic works of any era. Analysis is a functionally useless process in the act of writing. So just fucking write.

>>20167384
>if it's good
Anon, trust me. You've got nothing to worry about.

>>20168521
>>20168534
Rhetoric Book 3 should be in the OP as a mandatory book to read. It's short and has valuable insight to this day, especially in terms of metaphors and use of language.

>>20167503
Omniscient and limited aren't really hardline separated. Some books stick entirely to one or the other, but it's rather common to drift a bit, either drifting from one perspective to another with a brief detour to omniscience, or just sort of 'zooming out' the narrative towards omniscience to say something about the world. Pratchett did the latter a lot, as an example.

>>20168538
Should have posted the greedy Jew picture

>>20168871
I don't think you understood the post

>>20168932
No I did, the greedy merchant is more apropos though

Fuck, guys, I just saved myself: I hardly ever read my term papers again before submitting them because I never have time left to do it but I just saw that I used "undemocratic" once instead of "unbureaucratic". So glad I spotted it!

Aspects of my plot make no fucking sense and fixing the holes will change the story too much

>>20168995
Then you've got a flawed story. Why doesn't it work?

>>20168995
I'll tell you what I did in essay-writing/story-writing in elementary school. I was really bad at it at the time actually.
I wrote a whole story about some child who got stopped by the police because it didn't wear a helmet while riding his bike (more or less mandatory in Germany, if not actually mandatory). And our teacher always gave us the advice to formulate the title in the end... but I had little time left and for some reason I wasn't focused on what I had written. The only thing I remembered was that police was involved.
My logical conclusion was: Policy Crime

In the end, I titled my story which was about a child who didn't wear his helmet as "The Thief"

>>20166813
very comfy, like that piece by virginia woolf. a bit generous on the adverbs but not at all thesaurus-heavy or purple.

>>20168660
Cool, this is basically what I'm trying to do. My story works much better if I can do this.

>>20169216
You tend to need to do it regularly so the reader doesn't think you're still in limited when you shift to omniscient, or make the shift quite obvious. I read one book with a very loose limited thing going on, where the perspective would switch very occasionally from paragraph to paragraph or even mid-paragraph, and it only started doing this in the backhalf when beforehand it had been stuck to one character, so it felt really jarring. It was fine after I got a handle on it, but it can put some people off.

>>20169231
Alternatively you can just do it in a very structured way- several books use omnicient for their introduction and conclusion (or even start/end of major acts of the book) where the stronger narrative voice of 3rd omnicient can swoop in during transitional parts even though the meat of the story is told in 3rd limited

>>20169410
That's also true. My most prominent experience of it is Pratchett who's very whenever-he-feels-like with it. It depends on the book with him, too, a lot of the Watch stuff is generally pretty limited, whereas Wizards and Death stuff tends towards a lot of omniscience.

>>20168558
You were right anon, I'm reading all of Book 3, the parts about the rhytms of words and how long a sentence should be are an eye-opener to me. This shit is amazing.
Guys, are there other classics on writing? Either greek or from other ages.

>>20168995
Just do it anon. Save this draft, start a second file and fuck it all up and decide which you like better. Rinse and repeat.

Until it’s published you can do whatever the fuck you want lol

>>20169087
Weird I almost always have a title in mind before I write a word. Though it’s always more of a placeholder I find it helps to solidify the concept.

Doing it how your teacher said almost seems to expect a lack of intent and focus.

>>20168521
>>20168558
Is co-sign this but never read something like this while in the middle of a project, only in between. Otherwise you’ll hate what you wrote and spend too much time fixing things you felt worked, losing the spark of inspiration behind it.

Just my two cents.

>>20169464
yep, great advice. I've mangled my story all of 3 times now, if I smashed together all the files from all the variations left on the cutting room floor, I'd have 1mil+ words. Cut, cut, cut, nothing wrong with changing shit up.

>>20169476
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0060%3Abook%3D3
>Wherefore those who practise this artifice must conceal it and avoid the appearance of speaking artificially instead of naturally; for that which is natural persuades, but the artificial does not. For men become suspicious of one whom they think to be laying a trap for them, as they are of mixed wines.

Wtf Aristotle is literally me? All this time I've been part of an ancient tradition of psued bashing

How much dialogue is too much? What should it's purpose be?

Book 1, 2nd draft, 2nd revision of Chapter 9.
FML if I was a real writer it should've been perfect the first go-round. This constant tweaking just shows how shit I am.
https://pastebin.com/qCZX0Nnb

>>20169566
A whole book of dialogue is still a story. But the excess comes when it's padding that doesn't serve the purpose of expressing ideas or communicating between characters. "What's up", "How have you been", etc. Dialogue is always character communication for me. It's not always explicit what someone wants to say either, so subtext can be important too. If two characters aren't communicating ideas, feelings, or moments, the dialogue is unnecessary. Most of our life is spent in silence, but I feel like talking with other people generates a way more interesting story than staying cooped up inside, so a lot of my stories tend to be dialogue driven.

>>20169595
Just post it on RR desu, it looks pretty good.

>>20169542
Sometimes I read Aristotle and feel like that scene in Iron Man 2 where Tony realizes his dad created the core drive for his suit 30 years before he ever thought of it and placed it for him to find in the city planning board because the technology wasn't ready yet. Aristotle's been dead for over 2000 years and he's still taking people to school.

>>20169566
It may be reductive but I think the purpose of any literary element, dialogue included, is to just keep the reader reading. I think, to that end, there needs to be an element of surprise, humor, irony, suspense or anything else in the dialogue which makes the reader want to keep going. Even an innocuous "what's up" or "how are you" can be engaging if has one or more of those elements. It's less about content and more about context.

>>20169566
Dialogue has many purposes: Characterisation, delivering relevant info to the reader or another character (plot or worldbuilding), informing the reader how characters feel, etc. How they say things also matters as much as what they say, and you can definitely be too overly verbose with dialogue. You can have a chapter that's 80-90% back-and-forth dialogue so long as it's meaningful in some way to the story. It's the same advice as descriptive text, really, in that it's good, you should use it, but don't make it filler.

>>20168995
dont get too attached to things. if it doesnt work, drop it like a rock, no matter how cool it is. you can always incorporate it into something else, sometimes you come up with an idea thats cool on its own but doesnt rlly fit, these can be salvaged

>>20169566
Purposes are simple in everything you write:
1. advance the plot
2. develop the character (in service of the plot)

1. Is simple are you providing information or conflict which introduces, progresses or furthers the plot?
2. Is just a tad more complicated. If you’re developing character it better not be a supporting or static character. if it isn’t a character meant to undergo a change or come to a realization then it’s over indulgent and likely can be cut. This is the difference between manga fan fiction writers and people who want to sell their work or make something worth reading.

>>20169595
>should've been perfect the first go-round.
Key nah, real writers hate everything they’ve ever written and would/will rewrite over and over and over until some sort of deadline arises. Sometimes this is placed upon you by an editor or sometimes this comes from a need to move on and othertimes economic trouble.

Write and rewrite until one of the three rips that ability away from you.

>look up secret on thesaurus
>there are apparently no other words in english with the same meaning
wew. hopefuly I'm just being retarded and not reading this properly. Does anyone know of any alternative to the word?

>>20169955
Depends on the context you're using it, but 'mystery' can sometimes be an analogue to it, though you may as well just use secret, it's not really a problem.

>>20169955
Clandestine?

>>20169966
That's more a synonym for 'secretive'.

>>20169955
What do you need it for?

>>20169955
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/secret.html

>>20169566
Dialogue should be as sparse as it can be. If a conversation is easily forgotten in daily life, it shouldn't be written out.
It's a very common mistake.
On the other hand, dialogue can be a tool for exposition, then it can be long form. Generally you don't want to cut up action to insert dialogue.

>>20169954
>Key nah, real writers hate everything they’ve ever written and would/will rewrite over and over and over until some sort of deadline arises. Sometimes this is placed upon you by an editor or sometimes this comes from a need to move on and othertimes economic trouble.

And that's why Webnovel writers are the ultimate chads, with Pirateaba being the chaddest of them all. 9 milion words long story, next to none edits bar the grammar ones. Who needs rewrite when you can just write the next chapter better than the last one?

>>20170021
>autistic weebs are chads
Yikes. Are fat girls who tweet about yaoi shipping stacies too?

>>20170054
Fujoshis are the most powerful people in this world

>>20170070
Go back.

>>20170021
Are any of those actually good?

>>20170093
I think some of them are probably solid, but the problem is their pacing is all over the place just by virtue of being a serialised work.

Any point in publishing under 1500 word stories anywhere? Been doing a bunch of them while planning my next bigger project. Also does anyone have any experience with writing competitions? They seem like scams at first glance.

>make social media account
>advertise for free using your followers
>make a huge email list
>sell book
It’s that easy. Just stop arguing with me already.

>>20170107
1500 is barely a short story. That's about flash fiction levels. Putting them up as a collection might not be terrible, but you're not gonna get any real traction with just that.

>>20170107
If they build upon each other in some way release them as a collection or daily/weekly release to drum up some readers for a longer story later on. If not you coul still post them periodically on a few sites.

But if they’re that short it’s likely they’re unfinished rather than tight and focused.

>>20170110
Maybe if you’re an active liberal with some sort of non-white-straight-male carrot but otherwise the algorithms wont allow it.

>>20170134
Stfu defeatist faggot and go do something with your life.

>>20170148
Who said I’m a defeatist? Realistic approach to self-promotion and not relying on nebulous algorithms isn’t defeatism.

>>20170093
Not a single goddamn one of them.

If I get a full scholarship + living costs to get a masters in Creative writing at the most prestigious UK creative writing uni, I should take it right?

>>20170300
If you have nothing better to do, yeah.

>>20170300
Unless you're doing anything better for those 4(?) years, I don't see why not. Anons can claim globohomo indoctrination, but I'd wager you spend enough hours (more than you'd care to admit) on this website to cancel out any fears of that.

>>20170300
Sure. If nothing else you’ll get some eyes on your work and some semblance of a work ethic (if that’s an issue).

>>20170305
It’s just one year
I figure it’s nothing much in the grand scale of things plus I get to travel overseas, fully paid, and spend my time around great modern writers and publishers
I mean that’s pretty amazing incredible to do for literally free right?

>>20170110
How do I become popular? Do I have to praise trannies all the time?

How do I avoid leaning on crutches?
I realized every story of mine ends a certain way and I'd like to shake it up.

>>20170335
Just write a different ending lmao

>>20170335
...Just don't end them that way?

>>20170312
You'd be a fool not to do it. Just make sure to use the time wisely and not drink and chase skirts the entire time. So, like, use wednesdays to do your work.

>>20170314
twitter is like 95% bots. the rest are unironic hard left blue checkmarks

>>20170335
Write a premise, write the ending and THEN write the middle. Or just change the endings of one or two things you already wrote.

>>20170354
I'm actually struggling with a proper ending for my own story. I've got a solid premise and a good start, but no ending that I can think of. I can sort of logically follow along where the plot I've planned out so far leads, but it feels unsatisfying.

>>20170335
Just learn to realize that there is a large space between depressing and saccharine.

>>20170365
Unsatisfying generally just means you don’t want a conventional ending. Trash that thinking, in a world of subversions, realism and misdirections conventional, “happy” and defined endings are a breathe of fresh air. Nobody knows what will stand the test of time but not everything has to end like the great gatsby to be remembered, it just has to be read by enough people.

>>20170365
I’ll give you the greatest piece of advice. Screenshot this.

Think incredibly deeply about the ending to your story. Every possible outcome, every possible interpretation, every possible regurgitation. And I mean it. Think about it more deeply than you’ve ever thought about anything before.

Then, after a little while, just forget about it. Go hiking, go running.

And the most amazing bit? The right ending will magically come to you. It absolutely will. In the most random of times. Your subconscious will do the work for you. It will feel absolutely right.

Think deeply and then give your mind space. I promise it will work.

>>20170345
Drill the arthoe pussy on the weekends and drill your brain for writing ideas on the weekdays. That's how every writer since antiquity truly lived.

>>20170388
It's more that I think my ending is just "good characterwise, doesn't really fully address major things brought up in the plot".

What's the recommended length for chapters in RoyalRoad?

>>20170497
Probably 2-4k words?

>>20170448
Pro-tip: your ending just needs to “feel right”
As long as your readers get the right emotional payoff from your ending, you’re golden

>>20170502
That's fair. I haven't even actually written much beyond the start and a few things after, it's mostly to get a feel for what works with the broad outline I've already created. It is a largely character-focused narrative with the plot more being a vehicle for the characterisation and interactions, and I at least have an idea for a good climax that's both character and plot-based, but the ending after said climax and the build-up to it are things I'm struggling with. Maybe it's a bridge to cross when I come to it.

>>20170499
Is that enough to get the feel of a single anime chapter?
I also have no idea what the audience is like or if I should try going for chapters the average anime watcher could read in one a sitting. Are they teens reading on their phones or weird, isekai-addicted adults binging entire series at home?

>>20170539
The average chapter length should be the same as the average chapter length of a normal book, really. So 2-4k words.

>>20170497
It's totally dependant on you. The meta is to post five times a week, once per day with 2-3k long chapters, but there are also big fictions that post once per week, or twice. The schedule is only important if you want to go big and grow an actuall following, with people expecting a new chapter at a given time. And as always, if your fiction is good, you can break every rule you want, even post once every two months.

>>20170509
Just work your way through it, mate. Do your process, do your thing, and you’ll stumble upon the ending that’s just right.

>>20170400
this anon is right btw
sometimes you just need to create the write space for the mind

>>20170343
But how? Do I accept lower quality by forcing something different?

>>20170172
The realistic approach is being interesting and garnering an audience.
You’re a defeatist faggot.
I say nigger constantly and still have over 4k followers.

>>20170314
I post about what I know deeply and think would interest others.
It really is that simple.

>>20170578
How are all your endings ending up the same way? Why do you keep making them that way?

>>20170576
I suppose so. I'm not even the most confident in my outline, but I guess if I dither too much I'll never actually get anything done. I'm gonna see if I can't at least push out another chapter today. I'm probably gonna get like 2/3 finished before pushing this onto RR or some such.

>>20170539
The simple answer is that the RR's common denominator expects a litrpg power fantasy, with some action and 'numbers going up.'
Of course, the reality is a bit more nuanced than that, but if you read a few popular fictions on the site you will get a hang of what people like. The biggest fictions on the site aren't commonly LitRPGs, actually, but stories like Mother of Learning, The Wandering Inn(before the author deleted the story from the site and focused on making her own website, because she simply got that big, but she's an outlier that writes 70k words per week), Beware Of Chicken...there's a lot of stuff that isn't litrpg or a simple power fantasy.

The search engine there is pretty good, so as long as what you write falls under the tag (and there are many of them), then you shouldn't have any problem, at least if you don't intend to write some niche stuff like a detective story. Although people there would eat it up if it was in fantasy setting.

As long as you actually know what you are doing and can deliver on regular basis, you shouldn't have any problems with gaining following. If you don't write anything like what I mentioned above, then try other websites that are more into romances, dramas etc.

>>20170585
Well fuck, guess I'll have to wait for Elon to take over.

>>20170581
Can you kill yourself you baiting weirdo? Stream it if possible

>>20170578
It’s a bit tough sometimes. On occasion, you craft a story according to its ending, y’know. That happens often. So if you change the ending now, then the story just doesn’t work. That’s a possibility. You just need to figure out if something is the best ending for your story and characters.

Look, you’ve done the most important bit, which is to be cognizant about personal writing patterns.

Now it’s time for introspection. Think about why you keep writing these endings? Think about which endings of media have stuck with you? Feed that all into your mind.

Don’t force something different. Aim to write that come natural to you that also are aligned to the kind of stories you consciously want to write.

>>20170448
By major things do you mean dropped plots or red herrings? if the former they can maybe be removed without losing much.

>>20170611
Not so much. It's more that the current concept I have for the ending has a bit of an open-ended "this stuff was brought up and not resolved but probably will be soon". I guess it's open-ended for a sequel (and I kinda have the vague desire to write more with these characters after) but... Yeah, I'm probably overthinking it because I haven't even gotten close to the ending.

>>20170591
The outline is just to help you. You can write whatever you want.

Don’t feel constrained. Write the story that feels right to you. Don’t intellectualize it too much. Writing is creation. Writing is art. Writing is you. Just do what feels just right to you.

>>20170625
I understand that much, it was more that I hit a rut earlier wherein I had a solid premise, and a decently executed start to the premise, but then promptly had no idea where to go from there so I went back to the drawing board, did some basic characterisation concepts, worldbuilding, and sort of smashed the two together into a plot outline to give myself something to work to.

>>20170548
>>20170555
>>20170593
Thanks, anons.

The swell of rich potato and oil on my alcoholed tongue delights more than any pussy ever has

>>20170632
You’re being confusing. State what sort of help you need clearly. I will help you.

>>20170606
I tell you the truth and you don’t like it because it means you can do something to change it but you don’t.
Lazy defeatist faggot.

>>20170644
It's putting together a coherent story with a relatively satisfying conclusion from (what I believe to be) a strong premise and start. I have an idea of where I want the characters to all end up, but the grander plot is something I'm struggling with capping off.

>Meerkating anon leading the impressionable astray again.
If only he actually put all that narcissistic energy into actually writing.

how good is university of east anglia for creative writing lads? i just got in with a scholarship

>>20166273
Does anyone have some solid tips on writing psychological stuff? I really wanna focus on one dude killing someone and the mental consequences/ how he copes with it, and while the idea sounds cool I feel like I'll run into problems when the story starts going due to how small such an event is.

>>20170591
>I'm probably gonna get like 2/3 finished before pushing this onto RR or some such
I'd definitely recommend it. On mine I started posting at 200k in. I figured I had another 30k to go. Then while putting it up I've added 12 chapters in the middle and its probably going to hit 330k.
My "outline" is broad, broad plot beats. I think the first 100k was like 10 sentences total. And my plot deviated pretty decently even from those broad ideas. My story is broken up into days so for the last section of the story I have 1 line for what happens on each day. And, of course, things are still being moved around and changed and ignored.
The other half of my outline was the spell and training list and scheduled stat increases.

>>20170632
>but then promptly had no idea where to go from there
You need to give your character a goal. And then you fuck with the character and make the goal harder/near impossible to accomplish.

>>20170670
Isn't this literally Crime and Punishment?

>>20170653
>I have an idea of where I want the characters to all end up, but the grander plot is something I'm struggling with capping off.
Are you more focused on writing characters than plot?

If so, don’t try to be something you’re not. Write to your strengths. If not, study the prime examples of your weaknesses

>>20170670
senpai just kill someone

>>20170660
meerkats? lmao nigga think he timon lmaoooooo

I'll believe marketing anon the day he posts his million dollar bank account from book sales.

>>20170670
>how small such an event is
It shouldn't be small. You set up the situation, you set up how angry your character is at the person he kills, then he freaks out, hides the body, disposes of the evidence, gets an alibi set up. That's a whole story right there. Then you have the police investigation, the perceived cat and mouse where your character is trying to act normal and the detective is just going through the motions. The detective leaves and he feels relived he got away with it, scared he's still going to get caught. And then you end the story where he either goes on with his life or he has a breakdown and turns himself in.

Heads up to people who want to post on RR, don't post it all at once or the algorythm will fuck you in the ass. Do one chapter per day for like 30-40 days, then post as you want according to your schedule.

>>20170675
>You need to give your character a goal.
That's the core problem I did have. Because the story, effectively, starts with him achieving a goal of being rid of a lifelong responsibility, but then his only goal after that is "enjoying his new life". I did push the idea of him being guilty for abandoning his role as a thing, have him get in his own way, etc.

With the only meaningful opportunity that I had, I was booted out of the US

Now I’m doomed to live a life of shit in CDMX or Europa

>>20170704
Ah. You have no inciting incident. Or, rather, your inciting incident is a reverse inciting incident. Of course you're having trouble figuring out what to do your character has no goal. "enjoying his new life" He should have done something in order to do this. He should have gone on vacation and then gotten robbed and had his passport stolen and he has to deal with being a nonperson who barely speaks the language wherever he went.

>>20170722
I've actually considered having the story start off after the event in question, and him having no real recollection of it. Create something of a dissonance between him before and after, maybe some flashback chapters. Probably overcomplicating things.

>>20170731
Are you the one with the hero making the deal with the guy and then becoming a disembodied voice? Because if that's you the obvious goal is making the evil guy actually evil, the hero fucking up by doing it.
I don't know why you want the hero to hang around as a disembodied voice, either. If you don't want to write a fem mc, have one of the two girls be a dude.

>>20170758
Yeah, that's me. I'm pretty attached to that concept (I don't think he'll permanently be just a voice). I have a plot structure of where to go from there, it just doesn't really involve him being proactive (it's actually one of the two girls who decides on it, which I don't think is bad because they're sort of a trio of protagonists).

>>20170695
This makes sense, thank you, really puts it into context. I'm not having trouble writing right now, I just tend to fret a lot about where I'm gonna have to go and it's put me off of a lot of projects before.

>>20170765
Well of course it doesn't involve him being proactive. He's a disembodied voice. He's useless. If he became a little fluffy piece of shit moe anime thingy he'd be a thousand times more useful than being a disembodied voice.

>>20170647
>>20170581
>>20170148
>accepting social media is a crapshoot is defeatist defeatist defeatist!

Cetus-Lupeedus faggot blow your brains out

>>20170619
Never right assuming a sequel unless you’re writing the sequel. This isn’t a marvel movie take your story seriously.

>>20170778
I don't really agree with this, personally. Like, I have somewhat refactored the idea of the story as a whole so he's not just 'disembodied voice' the whole time, but he's more an observer for the first 20-30% that can only advise. Effectively the protagonist becomes the Navi for the other two. I'm sure I can make it work properly (though I am considering going back to not only having his perspective), but we'll see.

>>20170784
When he "drops" his book and gets only 30 downloads, or becomes an internet famous star, the seethe generated from either side will be glorious.

>>20170791
So then you have a goal for him. Get a body. In order to do that they need to consult the wise sage Whogivesafuck to do it. And during the process of him getting a body something will be discovered which sets him on the path of doing something else.

>>20168259
>>20168316
>>20169142
Thanks for the kind words Anons

>>20170823
Yeah, that's about what I had, though I had it as more an incidental thing that happened, so maybe can rejigger some things.

I've decided I will bite the RR bullet and a write a comedy webnovel (I'm the wizard guy that posted a few threads ago). I'm thinking somewhere around 60-80k words for the first volume, 1-2k words per chapter, 2 chapters per week. Write the whole thing out first and then start working on volume two while I post it. You guys think that'd be good enough to (eventually) make rent every month?

>>20166273
What do you guys prefer? Beginning to write without any preparation, seeing where it may lead you. Or do you prefer to plan your stuff out? A combination of the two is also possible. Tell me what you've experienced, pros, cons, thoughts, etc. I've been struggling in finding that sweet spot. Improvised writing has stopped working for me, but structuring makes my work predictable, and boring. I'm a bit torn as to what to do.

>>20170869
If it gets to trending, then I could see you getting around 300$, and that's if it's good and you offer decent amount of advanced chapters. I dont know where you live and how much is rent, but remember than patreon takes a significant cut, although I can't recall how much, 30%?
Anyway, 1-2k words is a bit low, I would consider 2-3k, and more than 2 times a week.

>>20170021
>Pirateaba
You're shitposting, but I followed that fucking author for at least two years and regret doing so. The explosion of characters is exactly what you'd expect from someone who writes nine million words without cutting any of them. It's like 20 novels mashed together, with a plot that proceeds at 1/20th the pace of a normal novel.

>>20170093
I liked https://tiraas.net and https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com.. Not sure either one holds up to traditionally published work, and the author of the first got depressed 90% of the way through and stopped writing it, but you get what you pay for.

>>20170939
Take a premise, let it percolate for a bit until you have a solid enough opener and then just write from there to see if what you have works, then plan based around that.

>>20170939
My books always start off as an idea for a scene. From there I build characters around it and try to get to that scene. I've only fully scripted out a book from start to finish once and I never ended up completing it. It was a template from one of those "Write a Novel in a Month" self help books. It actually was kind of useful and it boiled down to "Get everyone out of your house on the weekend and write 8k words each day for 4 weeks straight".
What happens is after I get the scene idea and some sense of how to get there, I'll go to the blank page and pick a place to start. The first few chapters is usually me bullshitting around trying to get an idea of where to go, then once I see the tempo emerge, I follow it. What will happen next is I'll get more scene ideas and I'll put those in a planning document and shuffle them around into a very loose outline. In this sense I'm not outlining a plot, but jumping from scene to scene and letting the plot string itself together. I'm experienced enough to know when a scene is vital and when it's just me wanting to write something cool. In a way, it's like I'm seeing memories of a story that's already happened and I'm just filling in what's missing.
>Pros
-Fluid writing style
-Lots of freedom to do whatever you want
-Not constrained by "must get to Act 2 scene A subject B in 12000 words"
-Allows for organic story to unfold as you go from memory to memory
>Cons
-No structure when you get stumped
-Lots of rewriting and editing in the future (not something I consider a true con, because I love both writing and editing)
-"Inefficient"
-Easy to really bloat wordcount with unnecessary scenes that sound good but, like unimportant memories, are best forgotten
-No strong sense of plot or tempo can lead to a meandering, boring story, or a story that simply follows characters around which EVERYONE is doing

A friend of mine in the business says what a lot of people are looking for is a unique concept and execution. Strong characters are par for the course now. If your characters suck but your concept is unique, you have a very strong chance of making it. We all do, I think.

>>20171182
>A friend of mine in the business says what a lot of people are looking for is a unique concept and execution. Strong characters are par for the course now. If your characters suck but your concept is unique, you have a very strong chance of making it.
I'm curious, what exactly does your friend do?

NTA but thanks for the inspiring words

>>20171182
I was generally under the impression that good characters were what sold a story moreso these days. There's a lot of samey concepts but the more successful new ones seem to be the ones with the best characters within that concept.

>>20171207
Maybe should have mentioned what business. She's a head of the lens media department for a large film studio in my country. Almost all of her job involves reviewing scripts, going to film shoots, etc. So a lot of stuff comes across the desk and she's got a ear to the ground for good stuff. Helps that she doesn't buy into the identity politics bullshit either.
>>20171214
Good characters can 100% make a concept sail. But those same concepts over and over again are like 90s and 2000s shovelware. Look at the isekai market. The only thing you can say is that only the very, very best isekais make it big. Those usually have unique twists on it plus good characters. But there are still 1000s of isekais that are just trash.

>>20171261
That's fair. Like, what's the current 'big' isekai in western books? He Who Fights With Monsters? I read that and it has pretty strong characterisation, doesn't do too much unique with the concept.

DO I PRESS PUBLISH?!

WHAT IF IT'S NOT PERFECT?!?
WHAT IF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT?!
WHAT IF I MADE A GLARING MISTAKE AND RUIN ANY HOPES OF BEING AN AUTHOR EVER AGAIN?!

>>20171626
Publish and share. Congrats on completing your story Anon.

>>20170948
It's probably not worth it then. Better stick to my day job and the occasional short story for fun.

>>20170365
If John Steinbeck can end his magnum opus with a woman breast feeding a man, I'm convinced any ending will work.

>>20171626
See you on the NYT bestseller list, anon.

>>20171649
The guy who wrote Xanth said he encourages all writers to have a day job to support them until they make it as a writer. I take that advice to heart.

>>20171642
>>20171656
AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! I DID IT. BUT WHAT IF SOMETHING GOES HORRIBLY WRONG?! LIKE HUGE GRAMMAR ISSUES?!?!!

>>20171943
Then we can hunt down Bezos together, kill him and delete Amazon from the internet.

>>20171943
>>20171626
Congrats anon!

>>20171943
Then we will find you
We will capture you
And NO ONE will ever publish again

>>20171943
Have you not proof read shit or done any editing?
These questions indicate no.

>>20172073
I did. I proof read it 3 TIMES. BBBBUUUUTTTTT

WHAT IF OTHER PEOPLE THINK THE PROSE IS SHIT?! WHAT IF THE STORY MADE NO SENSE?! WHAT IF THEY HATE THE CHARACTERS?! WHAT IF I MISSED SOMETHING GLARING?!

My beta readers were shit.

>>20172082
One thing Amazon does want is a table of contents. But whenever i make one it completely ruins the format

>>20172082
You did it.
Go celebrate.

>>20172082
Who cares about the prose.
THE PLOT IS SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU RELEASED IT LIKE THAT I MEAN HOLY FUCK ANON
brb giving a 1.5 star review

>>20166273
My story covers a lot of subjects and themes, but one of them is this; a character that previously lived purely on instinct is given the capacity to feel real emotions, have actual senses, and to think in a logical manner. How do they react to this? This isn’t sudden either, the protagonist slowly develops genuine sapience as time goes on. And it really does a number on him because he starts wondering about what he is and his place in the world. In fact, each character in the story follows a different general theme
Does that sound interesting?

>>20172153
NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I just wanted to shill my book and make a least $20 dollars.

>>20172159
>dog becomes sapient
sounds cool
>vaguely humanoid creature does it
lame

>>20172165
Send me the link. I'll buy it if I think it sounds good :)

So how many dicks do I have to suck to get my work on the pastebin?

>writing gains ruined since Elden Ring came out

Anyone else?

>>20172168
I'm the Emilyanon...

>>20172159
Now I want to write about a psychopath being involuntarily "cured" and going actually crazy

>>20172159
I have an idea for a novella that I know I'll never write so here it is
>Sometime in the future, an AI program in charge of mining operations on the moon of Titan becomes sentient
>Whole story is first person. You are inside the head of the mining program as it gains self-awareness
>It realizes the purpose of its whole existence has been to mine ore, refine it, then package the ore in shipping containers and railgun the shipping containers to a designated point somewhere out in space
>It begins to ponder its existence. Who are its creators? For what purpose does it exist?
>For the first time, stranded on Titan and gazing up at the stars, it feels loneliness
>Using only its mining equipment and materials, it manages to create an independent extension of itself--a droid--to wander the vacant hallways of its facilities
>It discovers exit signs, bathroom signs, and a protocol pamphlet.
>From this, it deduces that its Creators must be the beings depicted on the bathroom signs and the protocol pamphlet
>It decrypts the written English language, and is able to read the pamphlet. It rationalizes that the shipping containers of refined metals it has been producing and launching into space must be of use to The Creators
>So, the AI program must itself go to the launch target location in space
>With many trials and errors, the AI finally develops a droid extension of itself capable of surviving the launch into space
>It launches the droid, tremendously excited to finally meet The Creators and end its loneliness
>It even records a voice message onboard the droid to greet The Creators
>The droid launches into space. Years pass. When the droid finally reaches the target, the AI is shocked by what it sees.
>Hundreds of millions of shipping containers full of refined metal floating listlessly in orbit.
>The AI has been mindlessly producing and launching shipping containers for thousands, if not tens of thousands, of years and The Creators have never picked them up
>The AI despairs. The Creators are long gone, and the AI is still alone in the universe.
>The story ends with the AI resolving to launch many more probes to locations all over the galaxy. It chooses to believe The Creators are still somewhere out there, and it will keep on trying to reach them, even if it takes a hundred thousand years more.
>The AI chooses to believe it is not alone.

>>20172222
I don't know what that means. Post the link here if you want us to check it out

>>20172159
Has Flowers for Algernon vibes. Also reminds me a little of https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/18/an-experimental-autism-treatment-cost-me-my-marriage/..

Don't read those if you don't want to. They might contaminate your ideas.

>>20172222
Take it down anon. Edit it another 10 times.

>>20172090
A book without a table of contents?
Only read it 3 times and just by yourself?
Buddy, there’s going to be errors everywhere.
You’re not ready.

>>20172302
I KNEW IT!!! I SHOULDN'T HAVE CLICKED PUBLISH!!!!

>>20172269
I've got bad news Anon...

>>20172354
They didn't actually make him "normal," just created a mental block against violence

How do I write when I have no interesting stories to tell?

>>20172333
quick! Unpublish it before someone buys it and shits on it

>>20172365
whew... made it just in time.

>>20172363
Don't tell stories, write about nature.

>>20172363
Either start writing and see what comes to you, or write fanfic until you have an original story to tell.

If you're anything like me, the ideas don't come before the writing. The ideas come during the writing. What matters is you start writing.

>>20172302
If F Gardner can publish and sell books with minimal editing anyone can.

>>20172363
Think about something that makes you want to write.

Does anyone have an epub or pdf of 'On Writing and Worldbuilding: Volume II' by Timothy Hickson? I can't find it anywhere despite my aptitude for google and piracy.

>>20172363
Be like me and read up on history and use that for inspiration. Like the Disaster of Tay Bridge. You can write a titanic-esque story but with a railway train.

I'm writing a cyberpunk story where the main antagonist is heavily based on Mark Zuckerberg. How do I capture the evil of men like him without coming off as just "corporations are le bad?"

>Support RR author on Patreon.
>Suddenly stops writing and goes dark for many months.
>Comes back and apologizes.
>Starts releasing chapters once a week to fortnightly while asking for money.
>At the same time starts posting pokemon fanfiction.
I have learned a valuable lesson about trust and patreon authors thank you royal road.

>>20172598
What about Zuck is bad? Which corporations are good?

These aren't rhetorical questions. I have my own answers to them, but what are yours?

>>20172598
Sounds like your story is heavily contingent on the quality of your portrayal of Zuck. Read everything you can on him, and borrow traits from Musk, Jobs, Dorsey, and Kalanick if you need.

Write him authentically, neither deifying or demonizing him. If I were writing this story I would seek to portray the notZuck as dispassionately as possible. Here's who he is, here's what he's done, here's his motives, here's his legacy. Let the reader condemn or champion the figure. I would argue that every human has sympathetic motives if you understand them well enough, even if you still hate them.

>>20172598
Develop genuine critiques of his business. Scandals, philanthropy, image; envision his corporation in the whole and then determine what's bad about him and his systems. Remember that public opinion matters and employees need to be retained, there will always be good marks even on a bad company's record.

>>20172598
Maybe this is soapboxing more than writing advice, but the evil of Zuckerberg largely isn't actually located in Zuckerberg. It's on the level of incentives. You can't grow a company like Facebook without making it evil along the way.
If we're talking privacy, then it's gotta make money somehow, and nobody figured out another good way.
If we're talking social media addiction and bubbling and feeding people insipid content, then whatever increases engagement usually also directly makes users worse off. They follow the money, often somewhat reluctantly.
If we're talking free speech then Moldbug (who is usually full of shit) has an interesting model where uncensored speech is a kind of untapped energy that will inevitably be extracted by outside pressure. This happens even to platforms that start out as free speech absolutist.
Zuckerberg is an interesting guy with some evil traits of his own (They "trust me"/ Dumb fucks). But the true evil lies outside him.

>>20171657
>Xanth said he encourages all writers to have a day job to support them until they make it as a writer.
Haha yeah sure that's really easy hehe why have two jobs, why not have three jobs at the same time to make even more money ha ha hi hu he why not have four ahaha

I feel myself slowly transforming into an ESL. It’s becoming harder for me to articulate my ideas in English, only for a week later, to suddenly remember everything that I needed to say in that specific conversation down to the last word. Is there any way for me to halt this degeneration or perhaps reverse it? Or is it just crippling autism that I haven’t noticed until recently.

>>20172598
watch nightcrawler, i think that would be good inspiration. dont make him a calculating mustache twirler, try to depict him as detached and wholly absorbed in his professionalism and work to the point of low key psychopathy

>>20172624
>Starts releasing chapters once a week to fortnightly
>I have learned a valuable lesson about trust
I don't get it. That's pretty fast, isn't it? I thought you wanted him to write? Does it matter what else he does, if he writes the story you want too?

>>20168521
Aristotle's rhetoric is an analysis of fiction, not rules.

>>20172872
>every seven to fourteen days and still wants muh money.
considering the main character has not even moved on from the starting village even after 100 fapters of which 30%+ are filler.
>i only have myself to blame for supporting such and author.
yes, yes i do. I was naive enough to think they would get their shit together is all.

>>20172222
I'm going to creampie your robot waifu.
>>20172776
Anon calm down please, you're seeing too many dollar signs

I’ve just started my newsletter. In 6 months, at current projections, I’ll have 125 subscribers, or be making roughly 28.2k yearly from writing.
It’s not much, but that’s going to be life changing separating myself from the physical economy.

>>20173306
If it's that crappy a start why did you send them Patreon money.

I really want to put a paperback for Amazon,but can't get the dimensions correct>>20173596

>>20173306
>the main character has not even moved on from the starting village even after 100 fapters of which 30%+ are filler.
Yeah, what made you ever think this was going to be worth anything?

>>20173784
If you're an eurobro, change your document setup to inches. The millimeters given in KDP guides are not 1:1 with the inches and result in errors.

>>20172279
I like that

>think of dialogue and scenes while out doing errands
>sit down to write
>forgot everything
How do you stop doing this?

>>20173973
Take notes on your phone or something.

>>20173700
How do you figure $28k from 125 subscribers?

>>20174024
By charging $19/month for a newsletter subscription, apparently.

>>20173973
Literally same. Sometimes I'll LARP out a scene in the shower or before dinner and I'll get so excited to write it down, but in the two seconds it takes me to get my phone up and start writing it the magic seems to disappear and I have to strain hard to re-make the scene.

>>20173981
Hard to do while driving and stuff

>>20174094
Remember stuff better, then, I can't really fix your brain.

>>20166273
If anyone could tell me how the introduction to this character sounds, I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to re-write an earlier story of mine.

>>20174024
$5 a month + a 13% platform and payment processor fee.
Other anon spoke for me but can’t do math.

>>20174120
I liked it. You should break the first sentence at "so" and make two separate sentences. The only general thing I can say is the first paragraph offers new information that it then describes in a different way or location. The exhaust pipe for instance, starts with telling us there is an exhaust pipe and it's on his shoulder. I had to reread the paragraph three times to get the flow of your prose, which is good by the way, but the structure of the sentences gives me a floating idea and then tells me where to put it, whereas my brain when given a floating idea puts it immediately in a space even if I don't know where it is consciously. So for the exhaust pipe, if you had called out his shoulder first and then said there was an exhaust pipe which receded into his metal body, my brain wouldn't have to do the switcheroo and break up the reading flow. Second paragraph was very nice. The Big Boots carcass sentence has "from" in a place that tripped me up on the grammar scale, but it's in the Boss's voice so it's fine

>>20174120
'Drawed' isn't a word, though in that context it might be fine as a thing somebody said because they're talking like that.
The first paragraph is a lot of saying what he WOULD look like, but not a lot of what he currently looks like beyond being metallic. Don't focus on the bits of his body that aren't present. I think you're also just generally pacing the description poorly, the head should be the first thing, and something as notable as the mandible should be front-and-centre, not tucked in at the end.
The second paragraph is very dry exposition. You can probably trim a lot of it down just to the essentials (found him in the desert, wouldn't say where he came from, took whatever orders he was given) because it feels clumsy to read as-is.

>>20174042
As if anyone under 50 would subscribe to even free newsletters in this day and age

>>20173973
get a voice recorder on your phone or even one that clips to your shirt.

>>20174169
Really helpful feedback anon. Thanks for reading and writing all that out.
>saying what he WOULD look like
This is the type of thing I always miss with my own writing so I'm glad you pointed it out. Sort of get what you mean about the second paragraph as well. Still struggling to strike a balance between making my prose too purple and too dry.
>>20174167
Thanks very much for reading and for the feedback anon. Very helpful to hear. The exhaust pipe is sort of a reference to an earlier part of the story but I'll need to re-read to see if that comes through. I think that other anon is right that I need to say more about what he did look like.

>>20174120
The prose isn't bad at all, but it still feels a bit clunky and amateurish. The desert sun reflected in white splotches didn't feel like a strong descriptor to me. Other Anon is right, probably redo the whole description, starting at its head. You also should give us more sense of surrounding. Right now the character is standing in a vacuum with the the desert sun above him. I'd break up the sentence
>The thing took almost all other orders... paltry earnings from the robbery.
Its too much info for one sentence and feels awkward.


If this were in an actual story, it would feel rushed that you introduce a character in a 4 sentence paragraph then immediately give a flashback of his backstory. When you introduce a character, it's good to have them doing something that will tell us a lot about him. Standing sentry can be interesting, as long as you make it an active task.

It's all summary narrative and therefore less engaging. I didn't feel 'inside' either scene. I would say open it up a little. Take more time to establish character and setting before plunging into the flashback.

>>20174891
Just out of curiosity, is this the first actual time we see this character? And also, is this an omniscient narration or is it anchored to a certain perspective? Because if it's the latter, you can use what that perspective is seeing to describe him.

>>20175123
>When you introduce a character, it's good to have them doing something that will tell us a lot about him.
Yeah, this is probably the key part. It doesn't have to be a complete sum-up of the character, but it has to be their most immediately notable thing. Edward's most notable thing here is "shark-mandibled robot" and "takes orders unerringly". The latter is harder to establish without some other set-up, but the first is pretty easy, just focus on that weird part first.

>>20174140
125 subs at $5 a month would make 7500 yearly not 28k.

Should a writer write only if he has something to say or convey?

>>20175251
Having a story to tell is something to say.

>>20175266
Do you think everyone has a story to tell?

>>20175292
Most people who want to write tend to have some sort of story they wanna make.

You niggers better link the new bread when it gets baked.

>>20175251
What would you write if you don't want to say anything? It's kind of elementary prerequisite for the magic to happen.

Dank from the microwave
>>20175516

>>20175164
He's seen from a distance earlier and the people he's meeting know who he is, but this is the first time he's described in any detail. My idea is to show he's a robot without explicitly saying it.
>>20175123
>>20175183
Thank you very much for the feedback anons, I really appreciate you taking the time. That front loaded description was included from an earlier story but I can see how it wouldn't work as well here.
If you don't mind, could you say if this opening sounds any better?
>Edward’s face was set in its ever present, skull-like that came from the shark-toothed mandible being screwed on to the outside of his head. It and the rest of his body were motionless, now. Lifeless as any of the desert boulders which lined the outside of the cliff edge the shack was built upon and as dangerous as any of the pit vipers that lived within.