/lit/ - Literature

>>20163498
Is there a list or guide that contains a lot of useful and relevant word techniques such as those listed? I'm not native, and have never heard of any of them.

>>20163498
I don't get it, you wish to be a writer, but this other person is forcing you to be a linguist?

People that learn technique to that level are just coping for their lack of talent

>>20163498
>is a young white male
>thinks anyone cares about his artistic expression
It’s 2022 sweetie, just focus on providing material security for me once I’m 32 and ready to settle down, ok?

ty added these to my wikipedia reading list

>>20163529
desu people are using those techniques without knowing what they are, just like they use language. You don't need to know what an adverb is to use it. If anything, knowing how those are named simply adds strcture to your understanding.

>>20163498
>>20163513
Read this. It's not definitive or scholarly, but it's a good introduction and easy to read.

>>20163539
Roastie, Roastie
Can't you see
Young Asian women
Are all around meee

>>20163549
Thanks anon, already on it.

>>20163498
I do all of this intuitively and have never heard half of these words. The virgin analysis fan vs the chad intuitionist.

>>20163498
Why are americans perpetually angry against this imaginary young white male writer living rent free in their head?

>>20163498
>you must learn whatever literary critics are overpaid to do because they got a useless degree
I'm good g

>>20163529
pretty much

it usually happens to people who got way too much praise for being booksmart during their formative years, so now as adults they can't even properly use the cognitive processes that were not used in learning facts for a test

>>20163498
I went through a phase of obsessing about this kind of stuff, worrying I was breaking all sorts of rules. It is both interesting and instructive to read about these concepts, but I don't think they are worth obsessing over. You will get to the point where you cannot write, or if you still about to then your sentences will be horribly stilted and contrived.

There are two cures for this. The first is to put a page of your favourite author's greatest work into Grammarly. I suggest Proust, Joyce, Faulkner, Burroughs, or someone who is equally unusual in their style. When you see how many "mistakes" Grammarly says they have made, you will realise you were barking up the wrong tree.

The second is to read Hubert Selby's Last Exit to Brooklyn. No book is so pure in the brilliance of its writing, without being constrained by any rules.

>>20163498
>lol, this faggot ARTIST isn't familiar with the TERMINOLOGY I invented to STUDY his work SCHOLARLY in my PART TIME position as an UNTENURED ADJUNCT at COMMUNITY COLLEGE! It's almost as if he thinks his CREATIVITY somehow allows him to get away with NOT PROVIDING THE CORRECT ANSWER for [INSERT ROASTIE ACADEMIC FATHER FIGURE THAT COMPENSATES FOR THE REAL FATHER THAT ABANDONED HER HERE]

>>20163676
Spot on.

>>20163498
I know the meaning of some of these but it didn't even come up studying English Literature in postgrad and sometimes my supervisor would slap me on the hand for focusing too much on literary terms I siphoned from Baldick's literary dictionary.

>>20163676
cope

i've never read a single shred of hemingway in my life.

>>20163498
Imagine not being able to just feel how words string together.

>>20163743
this, the texture of my writing would become disjointed if i paused to consider whether i had used this or that technique. i'm all for critical analysis of grammatical structure, but it definitely feels like one is missing the point of reading entirely.
>develop a voice!
>now kill it and replace it with MY voice!

>>20163498
Imagine sperging about latin poetic techniques in the English language. Most of these things are useless in English because it lacks declensions and a loose word order. Chiasmus is retarded. Same for hyperbaton. Polyptotons are okayish in English. Other traditional stylistic techniques are already in widespread use - like the different -syndetons - but are known under different names.

It's just a typical nerd sperg but about literature technicalities instead of the typical STEM. These people hit a wall once they actually get into well educated circles that expose how much of a fraud they really are.

>>20163498
>a coach who knows all the terminology and concepts is a better player than the world class athlete

>>20163498
Why should a writer care about any of that? That's technician's jargon. Technicians of language do not write literature.

>>20163762
Good point. Knowing that shit might make you a better editor (of someone else's work).

>>20163728
with what

>>20163498
>>"Active Voice?"
The recommendation to primarily use the active voice comes from The Elements of Style by Strunk & White, but the authors did not understand English grammar nor the difference between the active and passive voice -- their examples illustrating it are all wrong -- and thus their advice should be ignored.

>>20163797
>>20163549
I had the same idea as you just had, but the book this anon suggests makes a good case for the use of stylefigures. According to the author it should not be used to police and overanalyze (those dipshits can do that for all they want), but as a set of rethorical tricks to be used to emotionally sway the reader.

>>20163877
Is that her arm or a penis dildo

>>20163877
RIP

>>20163877
Sleep tight baz

>>20163498
Imagine some autist randomly listing basic grammar concepts and stylistic figures, and confusing the interlocutor. Reminds me of the "I want you to perform the transaction now" greentext.

>>20163540
ty added this to my frog list

>Nope!
what did they mean by this?

>>20165252
Women dont like hemingway and bukowski because both of them wrote about women honestly.

>>20163498
>heh...now that I've learned 10000 academic words from my jewish professor and acquired 6-digit debt I can finally craft the ultimate Novel!
>wait...
>something doesnt feel right...
>Jesus...I forgot to have talent, inspiration, and life experience! My entire youth was spent rote memorizing meaningless jewish babble instead of taking the world in, embracing new experiences, reading philosophy and thinking about the nature of cosmos!

>>20163498
Too bad Jimi Hendrix didn't go to Berkley. Maybe then could he have made some groundbreaking music that hasn't been matched before or since

>>20165606
>grammar is jewish
OP is retarded, but somehow you're even more so.

>>20163529
Absolutely basted and truthpilled. The Greats of literature didn't waste their time with technicalities and learning the precise term for this and that pseudojargon collegefags use to jerk themselves off over how much money they spent jerking themselves off with others in an amphitheateresque aircondiotioned room. They wrote. Then others read and we're like, "fuck that's some good shit right there"

>>20165644
dubs of truth

>>20165693
>The Greats of literature
They did. From antiquity to the early 20th ce, anyone who was educated had to learn how to identify rhetorical/literary techniques and then use them themselves via imitatio (μίμησις) as schoolboys. I suppose this surprises the burger who has plebian policies like no child left behind and exclusively reads YA throughout middle and high school.

>>20165741
Didn't read. Cope

>>20163498
I am a Romance speaker, so that stuff is very common in grammar classes. You learn it in any decent school, by the age of 13 or 14 you're supposed to have taken tests which forced you to memorize it. Of course it's totally useless for a writer. No novelist starts a sentence by thinking "And now it's time for a chiasmus!"
It can be useful for lawyers and politicians.

>>20165757
I know you don't

>>20165759
It sounds a lot more impressive as jargon than if you describe it in practical terms.
>I bet you're not even smart enough to use commas instead of periods to achieve an intended effect!

> ITT: Pseuds coping with the fact that they have no knowledge of rhetoric or technique by projecting their pseudness onto people who do

>guys who go on about Bukowski and Hemingway
Does this type of guy even exist anymore.

>>20163513
none of those is useful to know

>>20165870
No one believes you're laughing, faggot.

>>20163529
fax

>>20165644
>grammar is jewish
Yes

I only know active voice. I don't even know grammar rules, I just write one word and then the next like that until there's no more words.

>>20163655
i read some of timothy dexter's a pickle for a knowing one. which is a good test for your fluency in english. and the points where he had mentioned god had already been telling enough and note worthy for good literary work

>>20163498
i'm going to call for hate crimes on the subway walls and you can't stop me

>>20163539
uhhhhhh no

>>20163498
cool, another sexist book against men, SO BRAVE

>>20165741
Any fucking retard with a capacity for reading could end up writing well just by reading renowned authors and poets (and then assimilating/recombining their styles). You don't need to know what chiasmus is to be able to fucking reorder successive sentences so you don't sound repetitive. This whole line of thinking sounds like cope for people who can only derive a sense of superiority over the fact they learned shit from books and manuals while others learned from experience and have no actual grasp of theory. (Which is in many cases mostly unnecessary)

>>20163655
Those aren't even rules in the OP.

>>20163498
So? I write pulp.

>>20166367
Yeah just like any aspiring painter can create masterpieces simply by going to museums. Lmao publicly educated plebians are something else.

>>20166435
I did make a mistake by omitting the whole trial and error part of my post.
It's completely possible to learn to draw human forms without instruction (Anatomy knowledge is still required though, even if it isn't formal) , just harder.

>>20166435
And anyone that moves through an institution is smarter after.

>>20166620
Smarter--no. More skilled--if they went through STEM

Don't need to know any of that shit to write my short stories about a Dinosaur Wrestling League

>tfw learned how to read and write without knowing the alphabet

>>20163863
>elements of style
>active voice
>styles elements
Kek

ITT: terminal levels of cope

>>20163611
I'm an American, I've lived around the country, I've never met anyone that fits this stereotype. Idk where it comes from, Midnight in Paris maybe? American women like to be mad at men and don't like them to express themselves creatively, that's why they perpetuate it.

>>20163498
i dont know any of this shit and i'm an award winning writer, blap blap

I don't know anything formally about grammar but I got the highest grade on the grammar/writing section of the SAT in my school. I've always just been able to feel if something is off

>>20163529
Based and redpilled

>>20163498
Fuck lots of women and they will never take your confidence

>>20165693
Hard to get your shit in front of people when you're banned from real life (vaccine passports) and banned everywhere online (reddit, twitter, facebook, goodreads, instagram, etc etc )

All this retarded arguing about absolutely nothing, just learn the technical terms /while/ reading and studying the greats, its not that hard and you don't have to choose either/or

>>20165574
I thought women sre the only ones who like Bukowski.

>>20163555
took a dip just for the trips

The outgoing straight white male has already become the most demonized identity in western civilization

Lifestyles that were fun only 10 years ago are completely demonized in 2022
>wear your mask
>take your vaccine
>be progressive or else

>>20167472
father yakub, where are you when we need you?
>tfw you will never live to see the ancient underground spawning factories of africa rise from the sands to unleash armies of white people 2s from their vast skin grafting vats to destroy the black race that persecuted the great yakub once and for all

>>20167444
maybe a few ashtrays of women, but i think its a small number.

>>20167495
I have had a massive shit fuck ton of experience with women and the only thing they care about is how you make them feel
>this depends entirely on your personality and momentum in life
You can be yourself and be a complete maniac but if you make women feel good, you're golden

>>20167514
>I have had a massive shit fuck ton of experience with women
cringe

>>20167525
Worth to society directly correlates to ease in which you get vagina

Prove me wrong nerd

>>20167535
prove yourself right

Writers like Dryden and Pope were well aware of the new barbarian reading class and tried their best to allow them to catch up to those who were afforded a sophisticated education of the classics and literary judgement. They wrote translations in order to bridge the two together, to allow the monolingual middle class to obtain some sense of Mt. Parnassus.
Matthew Arnold was apt in calling the next generation of 18th ce English literature as the "age of prose." Up until the 1740s, verse set the standard for what was Literature. Since the rising middle class had neither the knowledge nor the care for the intricacies of meter or erudite craftsmanship, novels rose to the top of the booksellers' list and dethroned Apollo and Athena.
Writers like Johnson tried their best to educate the masses by writing essays on literary criticism to show them how to exercise judgement, to separate the wheat from the chaff, but, alas, neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos.

>>20167538
I already did, there just is no forum for the study of "how to get mad pussy"

>>20163611
>>20167076
It's women caricaturizing the men they've dated.

>>20167495
The only reason his career took off is because of women and from that point all his writing is fueled by the drama of the female fans coming in and out of his life.

>>20167592
That is real life. Do you not have women in your life?

>>20167603
We were taking about how more women than men read Bukowski.

>>20167646
Why would a man read about what another man thinks about women, he should be out forging his own path

>>20167654
Didn't ask. Forge your own path to a noose.

>>20167546
were they trying to control them with what to like instead of liking the things they wanted to?

>>20167659
Still fucked Nadia

>>20163498
No one cares about any of that shit

Love from Kazakhstan

>>20163529
It’s not that these people aren’t talented, they just have no sense of artistry after boiling their writing style and approach down to a formulaic science. It’s like the literary equivalent of Jacob Collier- yes he might be incredibly talented on a technical level, but he hasn’t written a single song I would consider to be good. Its all just soulless harmonic complexity made by a robot. Truly artistic people understand these things intuitively but don’t scrutinise their approach on a theoretical level be cause it just kills the magic.

>>20163524
>>20163529
>>20163578
>>20163611
>>20163626
>>20163630
>>20163676
>>20163687
>>20163734
>>20163743
>>20163751
>>20163758
>>20163762
>>20163797
>>20163863
>>20165016
>>20165574
>>20165606
>>20165615
>>20165693
>>20165759
>>20165891
>>20166009
>>20166029
>>20166136
>>20166367
>>20166419
>>20167077
>>20167085
>>20167121
>>20167472
>>20167806

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

holy mother of COPE

>>20168351

Truth. /lit/erally proving the meme correct

>>20168351
Mass-replyers get the rope

>>20168207
>yes he might be incredibly talented on a technical level
The truth is that purely technical "talent" comes in spades. Take a child with a minimum of affinity for a task and whip him day and night to perform and he'll become a prodigy at it, or at least world-class competent. Just look at art: the average teenager artist is on the level of what many professionals wer in the past decades. Competent people are making photorealistic shit in an hour, the means of producing art have increased, the instruction level is on par with XIX century academia, but there's practically no good art. It's all dumb cringey entertainment shit, nobody has a vision, nobody has anything to say, everyone's just lacking in integrity and humanity that all they can do is combine crap until the shapes and colors look good and it's fucking terrible. What these people have in their hearts is all just yuk yuk this is COOL EBIN BADASS just like in muh japanese anime or muh THICC whores PP big many shekels, everyone's using "talent" and training to make garbage. It's the same as all those people who graduate from Berkley and go on to make horrible progressive death metal with cringey pseud lyrics about nothing. I'm not even putting this in a way like "oh it was better in the past", the truth is that the majority of trained artists in the past were also goddamn fucking shit. Art is mostly shit in general, not even in the sense that it's not up to some standard, but that it's a plain negative force, it's some kind of shitty drug, stupid noise that dulls people's soul.

>>20163498
your right, I should stop spending all of my free time (what little I get) writing what I want, how I want, and learn the vocabulary and proper righting techniques of the literary elite. only then will I be a true writer! thanks anon.

>>20163539
I respect this

>>20166367
Pedants are troublesome, but writing is a thoughtful process and ruminating on what it is one is doing in their writing could never hurt. The rules laid out might seem like trivia, but they do offer a useful map as a starting point for a deeper understanding.

It's certainly good if you know all those and make use of while developing different characters or just shaking up the rythm of the work. However, I'd like to think that most famous writers didn't think of this at all and it just natural came to them.

>>20167546
yeah, the middle class was a mistake

>>20167574
it would be the antithesis of /r9k/

>>20163529
These are the basics my man

>>20168506

as if you wouldn't be one of the proles with the rest of us

Tptb fear the anti grammar chad. Go read a book from the 18th century, nobody cared about grammar or spelling, and they were all more eloquent than the best author today.

>>20169459
Post an example.

>>20163529
100%
>>20168599
kys

>>20169459
Nigga, you’re delusional. There are countless books on rhetoric from hundreds of years before the eighteenth century.

>>20163529
This is pure egotism. Every professional poet or writer I’ve met or worked alongside has had a wealth of information to share regarding technical know-how, historical context, and creative solutions. To not learn about concepts as basic as these is to cheat yourself out of the potential to actually make it.
t. award-winning poet

>>20163498
If you're studying how to be a writer then you will never be a good writer.

>>20170280
"Award winning"

>>20169459
How about you show the writing from the 18th century that did not care about grammar or spelling?
I'm not saying that every good writer has to know all the linguistic and stylistic technicalities to be any good, but the anti-intellectual cope ITT is denying well-documented history. People in the more distant past were systematically taught grammar - Latin and usually their native. Spelling was more variant but it wasn't chaos. The eloquence came from systematically studying ancient authors and especially the rhetoricians.

>>20170462
English wasn't actually a standardized language until, I believe, the King James bible.
I wrote a paper in college to this effect and it's pretty obvious that if you look at literature written before a certain date everybody is just phonetically winging it

There are no rules in literature, just conventions. Often breaking conventions is what makes a piece of literature more interesting than the rest.

Just focus on writing what you enjoy, and what gives you catharsis. That’s what I do.

>>20168207
I don't think Jacob Collier is incredibly talented on a technical level, he's just very good at self promotion and playing the YouTube game.
All the shit he talks about and demonstrates is just par for the course for anyone who went through conservatory.

>>20170407
Anon, people like who want to write but haven't been born with enligsh as a native language need this shit. I have spent first 20 years of my life only reading hundreds of books in my language, and while some things translate, most of my experience is worthless. I literally must study to do anything worthwile.

>>20165891

>None of those is useful

>>20167429
I feel like you are skipping a few steps anon

>>20163529
based, this extends to drawing and music too

ITT anons so damn lazy they cant study the rules to the craft but they can shitpost on 4channel to defend their laziness.
participation trophies and the ignorance of literary hierarchy has had disastrous consequences upon 21st ce lit baka senpai

>>20169039
I'd love nothing more than to be a peasant desu
how many generations lived and died happily, doing simple things and living simple lives?
what makes the average wage-slave of modernity so contemptuous of simple happiness, that he'd rather pretend to be more sophisticated, yet emotionally duller in the end?
I'm happy with simplicity; and happiness ain't beneath me, simple as.
and to those that say being a peasant be beneath you, I say that being an aristocrat be above you.

>>20171215
>what makes the average wage-slave of modernity so contemptuous of simple happiness, that he'd rather pretend to be more sophisticated, yet emotionally duller in the end?
There is a massive difference between sitting in an office for 40+ hours every week and plowing the earth, seeing after the inhabitants of your stables and being, mostly, self-sufficient.

>>20163611
It's the boogeyman of the wokes. Just like Jews are at the boogeyman of the far right.

>>20170947
yes

>>20167444
buk is the arthoes' favorite

>>20170280
share some poetry

>>20163498
LOL you pathetic sweet summer child you think writing is just putting words down on a page? You realize you have to be an expert and hone your craft in order to make quality prose and sentences that wont bore people? PATHETIC, SO FUNNY HAHAHA

>>20163630
>>20165693
>>20169748

People like you are why not many people respect writing as a craft. Because people like you think it's as easy putting words down on a page. Purposefully being ignorant of sentence structure and how to make prose sound nice.

>>20171388
You're missing the point, being that you don't need to know what asyndeton is to use it.

>>20171429
You do.

>>20171457
Nope, cope.

>>20163555
And I just love their asian ways
Guess that's why they're hot and you're so lame

>>20170280
>t. award-winning poet
Could have put this part at the beginning so we all could ignore your post

>>20171478
Refuted by Longinus.

>>20163513
https://yale.learningu.org/download/f10e0a0e-1866-4958-9058-11e84f35ad24/H2976_APEngLangGlossary.pdf

here you are brotha

>>20170280
Blue ribbon at your middle-school writing fair?

>>20170280
Reminder that awards are not given out for talent or accomplishment these days but merely for compliance to HR Department mission statements

>>20173495
cope

>>20163498
Any decent writer uses these things all the time even if they don't know the names of them.
Writing is just like music. You genuinely don't need to learn a single formal thing about it to do it well.

>>20171144
Very true, I know multiple people who compensate their lack or musical talent with learning theory.

>>20173578
Yeah, I know you are.

>>20163498
>Active voice
It's not about using it more than passive, it's about never confusing the subject.
>Asyndeton, Syndeton, Polysyndeton
Rhythmic devices for prose are necessary to understand because it is not afforded the same level of flexibility as verse.
>Chiasmus
This is basic logic, as all well constructed arguments could in theory be written this way, and it's fun to loop a paragraph back to the original point and make it sound sensible.
>Conjuctive Adverbs
We know that adverbs are the ultimate cope of all time. Conjunctive adverbs are another stage of cope, they just sound nice at time. Adverbs never sound nicer than the absence of them.
>Parataxis
Knowing how to write objectively makes you a better writer. Sentences can be long or short, but in the absence of grander points they ought to be as compact as possible.
>Superlative Form
I highly doubt writers are not all aware of what this means.
>Split infinitives
Recognizing these in day-to-day conversation has made me go insane, desu.
>Compound predicates
If someone is seething about having to know these, then they are not a good writer.

>>20171457
Simple chicken vs egg logic demonstrates that you do not need to know what it is in order to use it. The term could only have been coined after at least one person had already performed said feat, otherwise to which technique were they giving a name? Checkmate.

>>20173976
thanks for your knowledge

>>20172209
Thanks brother, I'll commit to memorizing all of these.

>>20170280
I am a published poet. I have mentioned this 4 times in my 30 years because I know how much of a non-accomplishment it is.
Now you on the other hand, won an award for non-accomplishment and posted it on 4chan.

>>20175666
no problem. The pdf has a link to this site for devices, more in detail than the pdf
http://rhetoric.byu.edu/

>>20163498
What is the point of knowing the textbook definitions of these words if you intuitively know how to properly use all of these devices in your writing already? We get it, you have a linguistics degree.

>>20163498
>Polysyndeton
Any 4 year old rambling about their day is apparently a top tier writer.

>>20163529
>>20163545
>>20163630
>>20165693
>>20166009
if you all think technique is so unimportant, post some of your writing for us to read. I'll wait.

>>20163676
kek

>>20163676
perfect

>>20170280
What award did you win? Bronze Swimming Certificate?

>>20170280
gold stars don't count

The real difference is between the writers who use these as a matter of course without thinking about them and those who sit there thinking 'ooh, today I will use a polysyndeton, aren't I smart'?