/lit/ - Literature

>>20124568
I was just focusing on Hosea 11:3, God's hand being in our lives but not seen because of our focuses on worldly things, desires, ways...our idols.

Alright, do we know exactly what "manna" is in exodus? Were the Israelites really eating bug residue?

>>20124568
I got that red letter type shit in my most recent Bible.

>>20124568
>Red letter
What's the purpose?

>>20124683
Putting the words of Christ while on earth in red is a style that came about in the early 20th century. Most Bibles have it these days. I don't have a preference myself. In lots of red letter Bibles the red is too light, almost pink, making it hard to read. Some like Cambridge in the OP pic have a nice dark crimson red. If anything it just adds some color.

>>20124614
Later in Numbers it says
>The manna was as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium. And the people went about, and gathered it, and ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar, and baked it in pans, and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.

>>20124667
>the words of our Lord while He dwelt among us as one of us being accentuated
>shit
>>20124737
>If anything
If anything it accentuates the words of our Lord while He dwelt among us as one of us.
>>20124683
To accentuate the words of our Lord while He dwelt among us as one of us.

Almost time for Vespers, lads. See you guys later

>>20124914
This is a Bible thread and that isn't in the Bible. Feel free to start your own dead negro foot water thread.

why did miracles stop happening as people got less superstitious and we got better methods of verifying supposed supernaturality?

>>20124915
wait until you find out about inquisitor saints

>>20124923
They haven't stopped. They don't seem to happen for those without faith and there are far less people with faith.

>>20124925
Polycarp
Ignatius
Quadratus
Aristides
Justin
Cyprian
Ambrose
(((Jerome)))
(((Augustine)))

>>20124921
>Psalm readings aren’t in the Bible
The absolute state

>>20124931
I don't know. The most "certain" and documented ones would be canonization miracles, but I've looked at several recent ones and they're all of dubious reliability.

>>20124890
Doesn't make those words any more inspired than the genealogies in Chronicles.

>>20124890
>one set of words in the Bible are more God-breathed than another set

>>20124683
Publishers in the 1800s wanted to make more money so they invented a gimmick. Red letters, like "reader's" Bibles, should be done away with. Black letters and verse-by-verse are the only correct way.

>>20124990
My own experience is that miracles aren't gifted to be documented, they are meant only for those they are granted to. Faith isn't faith at all if it requires proof first. Miracles edify faith, not remove the need for faith. Anyone can "believe" something that's blatantly shown to them.

>>20124890
Why don't red-letter Bibles put God's words in the OT in red? Are the Lord God's words only God's words in the NT?

>>20125042
>>20125150
>>20125221
>God speaking face to face before us with His own physical mouth isn't special on top of special
>>20125173
>verse-by-verse
At least you got this part right.

>>20125239
>"God's words don't matter when he says them in the OT."
Got it, m8. I'll pray for you to be cured of your 19th century fetish for designer bible marketing gimmicks instead of the proper format of The Authorized Holy Bible. I hope one day you'll drop the ESV and only read the TRUE KJB.

Not him but only Cambridge makes the true Authorized Version King James Bible and they happen to be red letter.

If it ain't Cambridge it ain't KJB.

>>20125273
>the 1611 KJB isn't the KJB

>>20125279
Only the Pure Cambridge Edition is KJB. Safest way to buy a true KJB is to buy Cambridge. Everyone knows this.

>>20125305
But Cambridge doesn't print the Pure Cambridge Edition anymore, so apparently "only Cambridge" doesn't make the true Authorized Version King James Bible. Perhaps you should stop being gay and actually read the KJB instead of talking out your gay ass.

>>20124944
don't forget to take a nice big gulp
it'll boost your "orthodoxy" by +100!
Finally, reminder that "Orthodoxy" is a Schismatic Christian sect and has broken from actual Orthodoxy so many times that at this point it is more sencritism with shiny christian symbols as decoration than anything else. don't believe me? watch the vid below and read more history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rrzo55G364

>>20125360
>vaticancatholic.com
Begone, Satan.

>>20125357
I read the KJB since I have a Cambridge Bible. It isn't an Authorized Version if it doesn't have the Crown's seal on it. Only Cambridge is Authorized.

>>20125407

>>20125305
Wrong, Church Bible Publishers uses the PCE, Cambridge does not.

How do you get rid of the moral responsibility of helping others? I always feel like God put people before me so I help them.

>>20125455
>literally who publisher
>pure Cambridge edition

>>20125676
Yes. See >>20125451

>>20125360
>posting Old Believer heretics

>>20126221
Pray only to God. Mary had other kids after Jesus.

>>20126408
>Mary had other kids after Jesus.
Source: Not the Bible, nor any Christian in the first 1500 years of Christianity

Oh boy, another thread of denominational console wars. I can't wait to see what kind of exciting discourse and fresh, inspiring takes on Scripture this discussion produces.

Do you think Jephthe deserved punishment for killing his daughter?

>>20126558
Everyone in this thread is a heretic except me.

>Its a jesus has to escape through the back door because he pissed of the jews and they try to stone him to death again episode

>>20127029
>when Jesus claims the divine name I AM and then moonwalks out right into his crucifixion
kino

>>20126221
>they're older, more "orthodox" christians, not mooooodern "orthodox"!
your religion is Schismatic and full of syncretism, heresy and woo-woo tier spirituality that mirrors eastern demon-worship and non-christian practice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d07mgLoOW8g

>>20127180
Having a priest ride on your back is one of the toll houses.

>>20126434
>the Bible
it literally says "brothers" and no, it's not his cousins, there was a better suited greek word for that
>any Christian
only because caths refused to call them christians and fought them off

>>20127224
>it literally says "brothers"
No, it says brethren.
>defending Arians
lol

>She is destroyed, and rent, and torn: the heart melteth, and the knees fail, and all the loins lose their strength: and the faces of them all are as the blackness of a kettle.
>loins
I like how the official English text of the Douay-Rheims has a typo at Nahum 2:10. This is in every American edition of the text and in all the online versions. The absolute state. It's supposed to say "lions."

Luke 24:36-43

36 While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

Did he literally just teleport into the room here? In this account they say he is like a ghost and in the John account they mentioned the door was closed for fear of the Jews so they probably also had someone watching the door. None of the accounts mention Jesus actually entering through the door, Mark merely says, "He appeared".

>>20127271
>trash translation
He ate honeycomb too.

>>20127271
Yeah it’s my understanding that he was teleporting and walking through walls and stuff at that point

Can or should Catholics read KJV bibles? I’ve seen some Catholics say that it’s missing parts or at the very least isn’t the best. I’m liking it so far and enjoy the challenge of the archaic language.
Picrel is my edition in calfskin leather.

>>20128078
I have that same one with the metrical psalms. The psalter in that is the 1650 Scottish metrical version, it is still authorized for use in my denomination.
Here are some of them being sung to the more popular tunes. https://soundcloud.com/connorq/sets/the-psalms-sung-1650-version

>>20125173
This. Just give me a 1796 or PCE with the footnotes, to the king, to the reader, black letters.
Why is that too much to ask?
Bonus mode: the apocrypha.

>>20128107
Ah I didn’t know that! Thanks for the reply. How do you find this Bible compared to others? I think it’s been my favourite portable Bible so far. The bleed through can be pretty noticeable at times but I can overlook that.

>>20124923
they didn't, although there are a lot of false miracles detached from the Gospel. One must discern in the last days as Moses, Elijah, etc. did in their times
>>20126574
He was punished, he had no children and was cast away from his family from birth so his line ended with him and he probably died alone

>>20128322
I've never compared TBS Bibles to others because they are sort of in their own league. Unlike the other major publishers TBS is a Bible society and I suspect they are selling the Bibles close to the manufacturing price. You can't get a better Bible for what they are asking. Their 'Westminster' line in particular is a steal though, I used one for a long time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgzgyrak79E

I don't want to sound like a sacred name type but how do you feel about His name not being written/said like it should? How do you feel about the tetragrammaton missing? I think the ineffable name doctrine is pretty dumb. And saying just generic titles isn't really the best either. I also know there's debate over the names themselves

>>20124568
https://www.reddit.com/user/Cecile_en_levrette/
Catholic bros... how am I supposed to cope...

>>20129662
>reddit
ignored

>>20129724
you better ignore it, hard pill to swallow how many of the most radical catholic girls turn into sluts

>>20125360
Bro, the liturgy of the hours is Catholic, calm your ass down. Vespers is done between 4pm and 7pm, and has passages from the bible in it, and they focus mainly on the psalms. Nothing heretical about it, mainly since Catholic priests have to pray this shit at least three times a day.

>>20129823
Don't bother, he'll just come up with a rant about how anything other than Pastor JimBob's megachurch worship service/rock concert is heresy and Ishtar worship and priests are actually a demonic invention of the Romans and bla bla bla.

>>20126595
>KJV
Bro, that isn't NRSV
https://www.usccb.org/offices/new-american-bible/approved-translations-bible

>>20125253
>KJB
more like the kringe gay bible

>>20127224
>there was a better suited greek word for that
Name it.

>>20129662
>Chrysostom
based

>>20124568

How much bibble do I need to read for Joseph and his Brothers ?

>>20124936
>jews said that non-jews lied

>>20129919
Genesis

>>20127224
> it literally says "brothers"
BTFO by Lot and Abraham in the LXX

>>20129662
Become Christian and stop concerning yourself with the Satanic Babylonian pagans.

>>20129893
NTA but ἀνεψιὸς.

how long have you gone without sinning at your best?

>>20130695
Depends what you mean by ‘sin’—if you mean major sins, I have been doing okay recently, thank God, but I do minor things more than I’d like—saying prideful things, failing at loving my neighbor, getting angry over silly things etc. It’s a process of fixing things though

>>20130695
maybe an hour or two

>>20130695
15 days

And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.

>>20124568
I read my parents Luke 6:37-38 and they were happy that I did so.

>>20124568
i love Jesus but i'm a poor servant

>>20131467
Blessed

Does the full Chursh Slavonic Bible translation by Cyril and Methodius still exist? I'm finding mixed things.

Catholics are obviously going to Hell, so what kind of church should I go to? I would like to have a reason to dress nice for once in my life.

>>20131715
Just try different ones and see what you think and how you feel about each.

My dad picked me up from the bus station on friday night, and I talked to him about gardens. Last sunday I read an essay talking about gardens in Les misérables, and I mentioned that to him, and I told him about a passage written by St. Thomas Aquinas that a friend of mine had shared (pic related), and I read Matthew 26:36-46 to him. On saturday I read chapter 16 of Acts to him. I was worried he wouldn't be very interested in Acts, but he showed a lot of interest in what I was saying.
There is a church near my building here, and I think I will try to go to mass before I leave on friday again.

>>20131904
Very nice update, bless you all.

Do you think it's ok to say thank God when something good happens even if it's trivial and it's more of a reflex?
I'm constantly thanking God but I rarely thank God unless it's something serious
Is this bad according to the bible?

Was the crucifixion really a legal transaction to satisfy divine justice, or it is best seen as an expression of divine love, self-surrender, and the willingness to go so far as to die for the sins of mankind? It seems odd that God would have some sort of complicated legal mechanism that he is bound by that he comes to fulfill, but lately I have been sympathetic towards views which put the emphasis on the incarnation being the greatest display of God’s love, and that he could have forgiven us any way, but chose to demonstrate this through the cross.

cath bros, I just can't bring myself to believe your stuff but what should I do not to end up in gehenna just in case?

>>20132602
I think your level of sincerity would indicate if it's fine. If you find yourself thanking the Lord for a leaf blowing past your face because a leaf blew past your face, that might sound a little flat.
But if you thank God for the wind on your skin and the sound of rustling leaves in your ears because you have another day on this Earth, that's more appropriate.

>>20133499
I think God has a penchant for prophecy and symbolism, if the Bible is anything to go off of at least...
In all seriousness, the fulfilling of said prophecy by how it echoed Abraham and Isaac and the hundred other OT allegories bound the OT and the NT literarily together and in my mind "completed the loop" of so many parts of the Bible-to-be.
That being said the way in which Christ died was to be symbolic for how much suffering He was willing to endure and how God, despite hundreds of years of everyone failing him, still loved us in ways only a father can to let the one person who didn't deserve death suffer it on our behalf.
I find it less of a binding legal mechanism and more of His way of showing His fidelity and being bound by His word. Not because He is actually bound, but because He places value on truth, honor, and the law, and He wished to show us that even if it takes a few thousand years, He would always be faithful.

Is the King James Bible the fast food version?

>>20134142
>Is the King James Bible the fast food version?
I feel like that would be a more modern translation
That said comparing the Bible to fast-food just seems wrong.

>>20133499
I largely agree with >>20134117 in that I see the Crucifixion of Christ as a benchmark of God's mercy; it shows how badly we can treat God and our fellow man and still find redemption. But it's also a benchmark for our own capacity to forgive, in that it shows how much abuse we as Christians must be willing to take from the people in this world and still regard them with love.

>>20131715
If Catholics are the ones that are going to Hell then I guess that's just the denoooomination for you, faggot ^_~

>>20133974
Become Orthodox

>>20124923

>>20128078
Get an edition that includes the "apocrypha"

>>20124683
makes it easier to take shit out of context like a good christian

has anyone here read the book of mormon? is it worth it for a non-mormon?

>>20135439
No, it's not. The LDS Church's doctrine as found in the BoM and other texts (Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine & Covenants) is essentially a form of Gnosticism flipped on its head, where the material world is all that exists, God did not create ex nihilo and is a dependent being who was in turn created by another God, and Jesus and Satan are a kind of spiritual brothers from a time before the creation of the world. They're not Christians in the proper sense of the word, much as they claim to be the "Church of Jesus Christ."
The BoM is kind of like the OT, in that it uses a historical account of a nation of people and their dealings with God as a vehicle for moral teachings and revelations, but it suffers from many flaws, namely:
>anachronisms that don't make sense in light of archaeological findings
>linguistic parallels with the KJV Bible suggesting an attempt at copying its language
>overuse of the phrase "and it came to pass"
>an origin (supposedly through a tribe of Hebrew Israelite who crossed the Atlantic circa 600 BC) that doesn't match genetic or anthropological findings among Native Americans
>its source text, supposedly a set of golden pates inscribed by generations of Nephite prophets, was seen only by a few of Joseph Smith's confidants
>the "translation" method used on the Golden Plates to produce the BoM was also used on a supposed ancient Egyptian text to produce the books of Abraham and Moses - only for their source text to be translated by secular linguists and found to contain nothing like what Smith claimed it to have
>its supposedly-ancient revelations oddly parallel responses to the Universalist trends of Joseph Smith's time and place in New York State in the early 1800s
It's an interesting read, sure, but not something I'd trust as the word of God.
t. born and raised Mormon

>>20135490
Is it better or worse than the Qur’an?

>>20135500
Sorry, I haven't read the Quran. There's no passages about how Joseph Smith doesn't like guests who overstay their welcome but is too shy to say so, at least.

I'm in the market for bizarre interpretations and extra-biblical theories if anyone has any

>>20135500
The Quran plagiarized Syriac Christian lectionaries.
The Book of Mormon plagiarized the KJV--including hundreds of verses from Isaiah, Malachi, 1 & 2 Maccabees, 2 Esdras, Matthew, and 1 Corinthians--and the 1823 Congregationalist book "View of the Hebrews."

>>20135587
St. John spiritually appeared before the Latin copyist who added the Johannine Comma to 1 John and told him to do so to fight the Arian heretics, and as such "modern scholarship" can go fuck themselves.

>>20135490
Tell us more about Mormon theology

>>20135587
James Mason, author of Siege, interprets the Old Testament as describing a colonization of Earth by space aryans who fly around in a swastika shaped spaceship. The spaceship also doubles as Solomons Temple

>>20124923
I dont know man, all the times Ive survived drunk driving is nothing short of a miracle

Sorry but I don't remember the verse numbers or even the books, I think they were Leviticus and Numbers, but I thought maybe you guys know what I am talking about. The essays in the New Oxford Annotated Bible say at least twice that there is a contradiction between two laws given in the Torah, one says that you shall keep a slave forever and the other that you shall release him in the jubilee year. This has been bothering me for a while, but as I said I don't remember the verse numbers so I haven't found a rebuttal but I hope you guys can help me on this one.

>>20135587
>>20135638
Pic related and see above. Highlights include:
>God actually a product of an infinite cycle of deities creating worlds from which new deities develop through the process of exaltation
>God is married to a female deity known as the "Heavenly Mother"
>matter and "intelligence" the only uncreated things in existence
>pre-existence of souls in a spirit world prior to creation, at which they literally held a debate over whether mankind should have free will or not
>Jesus and Satan both volunteered to be the savior of humanity
>a star named Kolob is physically the closest point to God in the universe
>aliens and other worlds exist and are part of God's plan
>after the judgement everyone will go somewhere better than Earth (except sons of perdition, who go to outer darkness) but the highest and most glorious place, where one literally gains the power and divinity of God and becomes a deity in their own right, is only for those who are married (sorry incels)
>angels are Biblical prophets visiting other parts of history
>every single person who ever lived needs to have a baptism and confirmation performed in their name if they died without it and part of the work of the Millenium will be to accomplish this
>btw during the Millenium the world will be ruled by Christ by his two palaces/temples, one in Jerusalem and one in Independence, Missouri
>black people are Lehites who were cursed with a skin of blackness and they were prohibited from holding many positions in the church until 1978, when God said it was okay to be black in a revelation given to LDS leadership (Official Declaration 2 iirc)

>>20135667
Oh, and one more thing: in a way eerily similar to that of Muhammad, Joseph Smith received direction and revelation from the "Angel Moroni" which led to his discovery and translation of the Gold Plates, including how he was reluctant to do so at first.

>>20129857
But I'm Presbyterian

>>20135615
>>20135649
I did some quick digging and haven't seen the spice right away, I'll keep it penned down
>>20135667
this is fucking nutty

>>20135667
>btw during the Millenium the world will be ruled by Christ by his two palaces/temples, one in Jerusalem and one in Independence, Missouri
>and one in Independence, Missouri

>>20135710
I'm not even kidding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Lot

>>20135667
Surprisingly less retarded than christianity

>>20135696
https://web.archive.org/web/20180910061736/http://siegeculture.biz/extraterrestrials/

Theres a speech he gave that I just cant find anymore. He said something hilarious like "The old Testament can be summed up in 6 words: A DNA colonization from deep space,"

>>20135736
>Recommended Reading:
>space aliens are angels, the bibliography
Yeah this is the stuff. If you find can the speech, post it.

>>20135716
I doubt this material is explicitly spelled out in the book of Mormon is some easy-to-find place. Am I wrong? I see a critique attacking Mormonism with Solomon Spalding...

>>20129662
>reddit
Nah, hard pass.

>>20135795
All of what I posted is LDS doctrine but not all of it is in the BoM - for the rest you'd have to dig through the rest of their scriptures (Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, JST) - but you can find writeups on all of it on their website. A good place to dig into the whole thing is the concept of the "Plan of Salvation" and related topics since it lays out how the whole exaltation-creation-exaltation economy works.
The really wacky stuff isn't even part of what I posted - for that you'd have to look at the views and policies various LDS Church presidents and leaders held over the years, like Brigham Young's 'Adam-God' theory, the reason most modern LDS churches have basketball courts in them, or the short-lived attempt to replace the alphabet with the 'Deseret Script.' I even left out Joseph Smith's 40 wives.

>>20135855
These are surely people that know the potential power of religion, even if they can't realize it

>>20135795
I'll never find that speech again. Internet got scrubbed. Fucking sucks

>>20135681
Paul warned against angels of light for a good reason, evidently

>>20135587
Catholicism and "Orthodoxy™" are chock full of those things. "Orthodoxy™" will even tell you that the burning bush was actually Mary and that Mary was the fulfillment of the hope of Israel since the promise to Abraham. Both of them have all kinds of twisted interpretive copes to support their fabricated fables using Scripture.

is there any hippie versions of the bible?

>>20136848
NKJV

>>20136848
The Good News one was popular with actual hippies.

how do christians feel about people who bother reading the entire bible just to 'confirm' how 'retarded' it is or for the sake being able to argue about it against christians? im not saying thats why im reading it but i dont want to limit my options either.

>>20124568
Im brown, can I still be a Christian?

>>20125273
Authorized by whom? Question for the Sola Scripture types.

How do you get a canon of Scripture without implicitly accepting apostolic Succes22d8msion?

>>20126408
"Don't worry about loving Mary too much. You can never love her as much as Jesus does"
-- Saint Maximilian Kolbe

>>20131715
If you accept Jesus truly and unreservedly while living according to the scripture, you'll get into heaven. That's all you gotta do.

t. Protestant

>>20131715

which denomination has the most baddies out there? Im tryna slide into some church with some fine bitches

>>20137049
Yes. Ever heard of St. Moses the Black?

>>20137049
Of course, brother. We are all of one kind. We are all sinners, but we can all choose to be prisoners of Christ if we wish.

>>20137127
Fellow protestant, may I ask what you mean by "living according to the scripture"? I do not follow. How you live after confessing Jesus as Lord has no bearing in ones salvation right?

>>20137127
>living according to the scripture,
What does this mean? There are so many rules in there. It's 2000 pages.

>>20133499
>a legal transaction to satisfy divine justice
No, that understanding of Christ's death and also the concept of Original Sin as you know it are both Western misunderstandings.
Christ died so that he could shatter the gates of death and allow for humanity to be reunited with the Father.

>>20135667
>(sorry incels)
I mean I guess I kinda see the logic? Or at least would if it also required having children.
Only those who can form a sacred union and beget child (creating life) are able to ascend to that level, seems somewhat reasonable in the already absurd context of the rest of your post.

>>20135855
Redpill me on the ballin' missionaries, I beseech thee.

>>20137392
Even demons along with Judas confess that Christ is God, with words alone. But did the good Samaritan? Absolutely! His Christian actions speak for themselves, even though he was a Samaritan and theologically unlettered.

>>20136793
Stop burning bushes and inhaling the fumes. You’re literally making shit up

La ilaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasool Allah

La ilaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasool Allah

La ilaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasool Allah

>>20137392
>>20137399
>Chad Protestant
Only the words of Jesus in the Gospels

>Chud Protestant
New Testament minus Revelation

>>20137127
Matthew 25:31-46

>>20137549
Why would you exclude any part of the Bible when it was written through the Holy Spirit?

>>20137031
One will get what they put into it. Prepare for confirmation bias and getting bogged down in the Torah

Is there any philosophical incompatibility between Plato's philosophy and Christianity?

>>20137519
He's mistaking Biblical typology for the belief that the burning bush literally was Mary, probably on purpose.

I’m reading up on Catholic literature at the moment, but I’d like to accompany this with some good YouTube videos.
I imagine he isn’t liked much here, but I find Bishop Barron very lucid and clear on the subjects he talks about and I appreciate his background in philosophy and how he uses it to form a very strong apologetics.
I think he just seems like a nice man, also.

>>20137438
No, kids aren't required, just marriage.
>>20137440
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_D._Moyle
tl;dr:
>in charge of the church's building department
>encourages the church to go into dept to expand its existing buildings and to build new ones
>creates the cookie-cutter design used for most meetinghouses standing today, which includes an indoor basketball court
>proponent of the controversial so-called "baseball baptisms" where young men were invited to play on sports teams through contracts that began with a baptism and included verbatim lessons given by missionaries
>relieved of his duties a couple years before his death in 1963

>>20137519
>You’re literally making shit up
The "Orthodox™" Study Bible states these things so feel free to check for yourself.

>>20137098
I can't love anyone as much as Jesus does, including Moses, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, and on and on, but Jesus taught us to pray to God, not His mother, or anyone else.

>>20138214
The non-sanctioned study Bible which is actually a Protestant translation (NKJV) with LXX additions tacked on has information that isn't actual dogma or from any Ecumenical Council and touts it as fact?
No kidding.

>>20138214
It says it’s typological, not literal. Your lies are obvious to anyone reading this thread

>>20138442
Only the NT of the OSB is NKJV, anon. They use the St. Athanasius Academy Septuagint translation for the entire OT. The book had many church officials working on it too. Needless to say, this anon is spewing lies about the OSB and Orthodoxy and does not know that typological prefigurations aren’t taken literally. When one says that Joshua is a ‘type’ of Christ, that doesn’t mean that Joshua is literally Jesus, same with when we call the parting of the Red Sea a ‘type’ of baptism. They weren’t literally baptized

>>20138513
>They use the St. Athanasius Academy Septuagint translation for the entire OT.
Which is still mostly a MT translation, not a Septuagint translation.
>The book had many church officials working on it too.
Okay? Translations without a Catholic imprimatur will often still have a few Catholics on the translation team--such as the Revised English Bible. Does that suddenly make them "Catholic translations"? Is the KJV NT a Catholic translation just because it took a number of readings from the Rheims NT?

>Psalms aren't in the Bible

>>20138674
>>20124921
That was meant for you

Thank you guys for indoctrinating yet another generation of self-satisfying, self-neutering, slaves. It's usually pretty costly to constantly pump out propaganda - requires entire departments, but you guys do it for free! Don't forget to find joy in some future kingdom of heaven yourselves too, lmao!

>>20139343
>Thank you guys for indoctrinating yet another generation of self-satisfying, self-neutering, slaves.
But this is a Christian thread, not an atheist one?

>>20139343
No worries, no one can compete with the atheist propaganda that brought you up. You're safe.

>>20125042
You worship pages. I worship Jesus Christ the Son of God

>>20137095
Yeah and ofc they’re quiet now

Why do people hate religion? It's not just that they're not religious, they have a specific disdain for religion. It's also not a new phenomenon, it started since 17th century Deism or earlier. And it doesn't seem to be any religion, but rather a hate against Christianity specifically.

>>20139433
Yes, and Jesus Christ is God, meaning I don't say that what Jesus inspired the OT writers to write is less inspired than what he inspired the NT writers to write. But since you're a Marcion instead of a Christian, I can see that you don't understand.

>>20139481
>Jesus Christ is God
>Christ saves us

How am I supposed to make sense of this, then?

"Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
I, I am theLord (YHWH),
and besides me there is no savior" (Isaiah 43:10-11)

>>20139589
Jesus is coeternal with the Father, obviously.

>>20124568
favourite psalms?

Who are the best Christian philosophers post Medieval times?

>>20139473
because Christianity is right.

>>20139971
Christianity is truth, rather. conveys my point better.

>>20139473
Judaism loathes Christ and works in all things to turn the races of men into godless consumers, while they sit atop a mountain of corpses and believe themselves rightfully delivered into godhood.

In particular the hatred for Christ stems from the jealousy the devil has for God and His divinity.
My personal bias is that since Christianity is the only religion worth following at all, of course evil would seek to destroy good.

>>20139998
i wonder how a jew responds to being shown OT prophecy about Christ.

>>20140015
It is a mountain of kvetching and pilpul to denounce Christ and condemn him in so many words.
The Torah contains so much unsubstantiated heresy and hearsay it boggles the mind.
Coupled with it being a legal doctrine more than a religious discipline and that what few religious jews exist barely adhere to anything that isn't sexually depraved and you have a race of people legally bound to hate what their forefathers tried in vain to kill.
That Islam honors Christ more than modern Judaism is absurd to many modern Christians.

>>20140035
isn't the Torah the pentateuch? do you mean the talmud or some?

>>20140058
Shit yeah my bad I'm phoneposting and not well at all.

Torah is the old law of OT
Talmud is hateful larp

>>20139954
Kirkegaard

>>20139473
Humanism is avarice

>>20140015
From Robert Alter's commentary:

Isaiah 53:3
>Despised and shunned by the people, / a man of sorrows and visited by illness
Famously, these words and what follows were embraced by Christian interpreters from the formative period of Christianity onward as a prophecy of the Passion narrative and Crucifixion. The emphasis on the Servant's bearing the sins of the people and becoming a kind of sacrificial lamb seemed especially relevant to the idea of Christ's dying for the sins of humankind. Illness, however, is not part of the story of Jesus. Virtually no serious scholars today see this as a prediction of the Passion, but it certainly provided a theological template for interpreting the death of Jesus. Debate persists about the identity of the Servant. A recurrent Jewish view sees him as a representation of collective Israel, but the details of the passage argue for the biography of an individual, and already in the Middle Ages Abraham ibn Ezra proposed that the Servant was the prophet himself.

>>20140266
>Virtually no serious scholars today see this as a prediction of the Passion
Oh fuck off.

>>20140266
> Virtually no serious scholars today see this as a prediction of the Passion
Lel. Holy cope. I can only imagine the kvetching over Psalm 22 as well, especially knowing fragments in Hebrew have been found which read ‘they pierced my hands and my feet’ rather than the rabbi-approved version about ‘like a lion at my hands and feet’

>>20140375
>I can only imagine the kvetching over Psalm 22

From Robert Alter's commentary:

Psalm 22:2
>My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
These famous words are the ones pronounced by Jesus in his last agony—though in Aramaic, not in the original Hebrew. That moment in Matthew is a kind of pesher, or fulfillment interpretation, of this psalm, because there are other details here (for example, verses 16–19) that could be connected with the crucifixion.
Psalm 22:17 (22:16)
>they bound my hands and my feet.
The received Hebrew text—literally “like a lion my hands and feet”—makes no sense. The translation adopts one proposed emendation—reading karkhu, “they bound,” for kaʾari, “like a lion”—though there is admittedly no ancient textual warrant for this reading.

>>20140409
>mine has the proper "pierced my hands and feet"
>it's basically the only version used here
Quite happy it is a great one.

I wonder how they try to reason verse 18

>>20140266
>serious scholars
That means secular jews, right?

>>20125460
Why get rid of it?

>>20139637
Jesus might be coeternal with the Father... but Jesus isn't Yahweh. Yahweh is the Father, and he is saying "Besides me (Yahweh) there is no other savior."

How does this work with the idea that people need Jesus in order to be saved?

>>20140626
Are you unfamiliar with the Trinity

>>20140626
Jesus is Yahweh, genius

>>20140015
Do yourself a favor and fact-check *all* of Matthew's "fulfillment citations." And read those citations in context. Not a single "prophecy" works when you actually do this.

The Book of Isaiah is a great example. If you read Isaiah starting from the beginning -- the way it was intended -- you won't have *any* thoughts that Jesus is the "suffering servant" once you reach chapter 53. Like... Isaiah says numerous times that the suffering servant is Jacob/Israel. When Isaiah refers to the servant as "he," Isaiah always means Jacob. When Isaiah refers to the servant as "they," Isaiah always means the nation of Israel. Why then should Isaiah 53 be the one exception to this rule?

Isaiah 7 is another example of Matthew not matching OT prophecy. Like... you guys... just read Isaiah 1-9. It doesn't take *that* long to do. Once you get to chapter 9, you'll discover that the prophecy in Isaiah 7 is about the miraculous destruction of the Assyrian army that was surrounding Jerusalem. This is why Isaiah 7:16 says:

>For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted.

But most Christians don't read up to that point. Or they simply have no idea what Isaiah 7:16 is referring to... even though this event is described in multiple books (see: 2 Kings 18/19 and 2 Chronicles 32, for instance).

>>20140663
>>20140683
Of course I know what the Trinity is. But... Christianity claims that forgiveness comes through Jesus. I.e. Jesus is our savior. However... Isaiah is saying that the Father is our savior.

>>20124568
Not a Christian, but I find myself drawn over and over to 1 Corinthians 13. It is perhaps my favorite passage in the entirety of the Bible, and one of the finest speeches in praise of Love that I have ever encountered. Let me share it with you:

"If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

"Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

"Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

>>20140746
it's a beautiful passage.
Why aren't you a Christian? you seem very drawn to one of the most important things.
If it is anything to do with the Bible, i wholeheartedly ask you to search deeper. every single argument against it is made up. don't take this lightly, i'm certain some here converted after actually studying.

>>20140873
I was raised a Christian. Father was an evangelical minister ("nondenominational") and I couldn't reconcile being attracted to other men with being Christian (especially after my father went through multiple divorces). I was an atheist until I graduated college, and I've been slowly studying and practicing Buddhism while studying other religions. If I had to label myself, I'd put myself somewhere between Christianity and Buddhism (with a lot of influence from Greek philosophy), leaning more towards the latter while retaining admiration and understanding towards the former.

Yo, let me ask you somethin real quick. What did Paul mean by the holy “trinity”? How can God be 3 things? A father, son and “holy” spirit? Get the fuck outttaaaa ‘eeerree

>>20140924
A flower is made of many parts--petals, pistil, stamen, stem, leaves, roots--and yet is one at the same time. So too is it with the Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit all form one single Godhead which is composed of three parts.

>>20140915
Fair enough, we don't want queers.

>>20140490
From Robert Alter's commentary:

Psalm 22:18:
>They counted out all my bones. It is they who looked, who stared at me.
The received text has “I counted,” which is puzzling. The small emendation is made in the interest of coherence and on the basis of the parallelism with the second verset.

If you meant his 22:19
>They shared out my garments among them and cast lots for my clothes.
then Alter doesn't comment.

>>20140931
But each person of the Trinity is God in full, not a part.

>>20138507
>Mary is the culmination of the whole history of the ancient Hebrews. She is the perfection
to which all of faithful Israel aspired through the long centuries of preparation for the coming
of the Messiah, beginning with the promise given to Abraham
Direct quote from the OSB. Now, read that again and replace Mary with Christ, and she with He.

>>20141265
>Mary is the culmination of the whole history of the ancient Hebrews. She is the perfection to which all of faithful Israel aspired through the long centuries of preparation for the coming of the Messiah, beginning with the promise given to Abraham
Quote copied/pasted wonky from the PDF.

>>20140702
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
>I and the Father are one.
John as always has the answer.

>>20141753
>Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
several times, even.
>>20141038
I meant 19, yeah.

the consecration was invalid wasn't it?

>>20140915
You've turned to a lie so as to live in sin. please repent.
don't you ever feel a sense of despair when "studying" those things?

also, your dad was completely wrong, but he has nothing to do with what Christianity is.

>>20142016
But isn't it too hard for gays? If they're only attracted to men, they're asked not to give in to their sexual impulses at all. Meanwhile, straight people can just enjoy sex with no issues.

>>20142068
Creating life can come with caveats and costs, it's not something to be treated liberally and like there are 'no issues'.

>>20142167
Sure, but some have many more issues than others. I'm straight and have had a great life. How can I tell a homosexual or other sinners to repent and be ashamed? I don't know what it's like to have to fight sinful needs every day.

>>20142176
What are you, a street-corner preacher?
What homosexuals are you going around hollering at to repent?
>I don't know what it's like to have to fight sinful needs every day.
Then you know not your own sin, which corrupts your view and in your mind sets you aloft to look down on others. Loose yourself of this pridefulness; no man is free of sin save the Savior himself.
>How can I tell a homosexual or other sinners to repent and be ashamed?
Don't tell other people to be ashamed of themselves when ye know no shame yourself, lest you realize your shame when Christ will ask why you have harbored such feelings of arrogance and impatience towards your brothers.

>>20142226
>What homosexuals are you going around hollering at to repent?
Well, no one. I was talking about >>20142016 i.e. telling people online.
>Then you know not your own sin, which corrupts your view and in your mind sets you aloft to look down on others. Loose yourself of this pridefulness; no man is free of sin save the Savior himself.
I'm not free of sin, I sin every day. But my hurdles are much smaller than others'.
>Don't tell other people to be ashamed of themselves when ye know no shame yourself, lest you realize your shame when Christ will ask why you have harbored such feelings of arrogance and impatience towards your brothers.
So if I know shame myself then it's fine to tell others to be ashamed?

>>20142240
>my hurdles are much smaller than others
That you are readily consciously aware of. Some day you might suddenly realize just how wrong you were all along, when the light shines into those dark places for the first time.

>>20142240
If you truly feel shame over your sins then--no of course it doesn't mean it's fine. If you are honestly aware of your sins you should focus on following the Lord and bettering yourself.
If your hurdles are really that much smaller, why do you continue to sin? Why sin every day if your struggles are easy by comparison, as you frame them?
I recommend reading Matthew (with fervent focus on the Sermon) followed by The Imitation of Christ. Maybe even the Desert Fathers as well.
With regard to >>20142016, I'll be honest I forgot about his post and was focused in on the straight/gay procreation topic there. It's a bit early where I am, please forgive my carelessness in not reading your reply string fully.
If I were to be an optimist towards him, I'd say the "please repent" means more 'seek Christ' rather than 'stop having attraction to men', at least given the context of your mentioning atheism/Buddhism. All that said, he does seem to be jumping at the gun to tell others to repent, maybe the zeal of a somewhat recent convert?

>>20142338
What do you mean? It's impossible that people have different hudlers? We all must struggle against the same temptations? How do you know?

>>20142365
>If your hurdles are really that much smaller, why do you continue to sin? Why sin every day if your struggles are easy by comparison, as you frame them?
Because I'm weak. But others may be stronger than me yet sin more because of their formation. But thank you for your recommendations, I do need to study more.

What do you think about this Kanye West song about God? https://youtu.be/6CNPg2IQoC0

Is it Christian, Satanic, or heretic? I'll paste the lyrics below.

[Verse 1: Kanye West]
God is King, we the soldiers
Ultrabeam out the solar
When I get to Heaven's gates
I ain’tgottapeek over
Keepin' perfectcomposure
When I scream at the chauffeur
Iain't mean, I’m just focused
I ain't mean, I'm just focused
Pour the lean out slower
Got us clean out of soda
Before the flood, people judge
They did the same thing to Noah
Everybody wanted Yandhi
Then Jesus Christ did the laundry
They say the week start on Monday
But the strong start on Sunday
Won't be in bondage to any man
John 8:33
We the descendants of Abraham
Ye should be made free
John 8:36
To whom the son set free is free indeed
He saved a wretch like me

[Verse 2: Kanye West]
If you woke, then wake up
With Judas, kiss and make up
Even with the bitter cup
Forgave my brothers and drank up
Did everything but gave up
Stab my back, I can't front
Still we win, we prayed up
Even when we die, we raise up (Hallelujah)
Ain't no wantin', no, we need it
The powers that be done been greedy
We need ours by this evening
No white flag or no treaty
We got the product, we got the tools
We got the minds, we got the youth
We goin' wild, we on the loose
People is lying, we are the truth
Everything old shall now become new
The leaves’ll be green, bearing the fruit
Love God and our neighbor, as written in Luke
The army of God and we are the truth

>>20142365
i didn't really have a good way to put it.
What's being criticized of me? Asking in earnest.

>>20142433
Absolute sacrilege. Kanye is his own god.

>>20142433
Based Kanye

>>20142433
For me it's sacred harp singing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ADiux2txiU

>>20142726
I can't get rid of the cultist feeling watching this. I would feel awkward being there. Perhaps it's my pride, but surely a sense of cringe was put there by God so we avoid cults.

>>20142770
Anon, it's just a singing convention for a style of music that originated in the American South.

Here, try something else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzJw1oDEwnU

If you hate on the retarded turkspammer on /pol/ you get IP range blocked now.

>>20143015
How is that related to the Bible?

>>20143029
you have clearly never been on /pol/

>>20143060
Are they Bible scholars? I don't get it. I know 4chan is more Christian than the average internet forum.

>>20125360
>Vatican catholic
he larps as a monk calling himself "brother" but isn't associated with any catholic monasticism, isn't an ordained priest anywhere SSPX or not.
attends a regular novus ordo mass in plain clothes.
lives in a trailer park.
quote mines without context
a lot of the times just makes things up

>>20141038
>another clear allusion to Jesus
>Alter doesn't comment
I'll bet he doesn't. Coward.

>>20142726
My grandmother did that in her youth (1920s-30s), they called it "shape note singing" around here.

>>20140691
Anyone have a response to this?

>>20143560
I personally don't have the necessary knowledge of the Bible or of Christian theological history to discuss such issues.

I'm perpetually wary of people who hair split as so far my readings warn against naysayers and such as they exist only to waste time and detract from God.
Of course the retort is "wow afraid of the truth?" but as I said, I do not yet know any truth beyond what God is helping me to learn.

>>20143560
haven't read it and i know it's bullshit from secular atheists. don't waste your time.
>muh textual fact-checking
anything at all is laughably warped. those people time Matthew to after the Jerusalem temple fell, because God apparently couldn't have prophesied it. would be hilarious if they weren't trying to trick people into it.

>>20143933
Laughable cope

>>20143949
>t. secular atheist
did you actually just ask if people had an answer to it to bring up your lies again?

>>20143560
The Judaizer has not been ceremoniously initiated into the Zombie God death cult, and does not eat the flesh and drink the blood of God. He is better than others and therefore doesn’t need Jesus unlike us sinners which is exactly why.

How convenient it is that after several months of feeling separated from God through my ignorance of His word, all my fears and worries are answered as I read the Bible.
I am ashamed that I spent 25 years of my life as a professed Christian and never once thought what that meant, beyond that Christ was my savior and if those who are against him are so foul then surely my faith was well founded.
I am humbled that even in my prideful, passive arrogance the Lord found me worthy of redemption, of education.
I now hope only to live up to my Father's expectations.

>>20124568
I wish they'd used another color for Christ's words. Red in my mind is like a klaxon and distracts me from the message. I hear even the most subtle parable as SCREAMING.

I also hate the way the KJV uses italics for interpolated words. It places emphasis on things like adjuncts which are literally the least important words to read.

>>20145119
>everything should bend according to my retardation
The italics allow you to know the supplied words are exactly that and consider, and reconsider them accordingly, even read while filtering them out for a much closer 1:1 experience.

>>20127180
>everyone but my pentamethobatiwhatsit sect which arose yesterday is a heretic witch and IN HELL

Why do sectarians do this?

>>20145127
Literally any formatting other than italics would have been preferable. Italics already had other functions, none of which correlate to their use in the KJV. Christ's words should have been italicized. Interpolated words could be blue, a quater-point size smaller. Literally anything that isn't awful

It's not the function I object to, it's the formatting.

Christ didn't say THOU SHALT PUT MY WORDS IN RED AND ITALICIZE INFERRED PREPOSITIONS. The translators aren't sainted. There's nothing sacred about the typsetting.

Don't be a cover-stroker.

>>20145172
>not knowing that one of primary sins underlying all others is thinking you know how things should and shouldn't be done
Go make bricks for Babylon.

>>20145172
Just get a different version if you don't like it that much, sheesh.

>>20145191
You think YOU know how should be done.
The translators thought THEY knew how things should be done.

And you can't quote a single passage which would support your doctrinal assertion.

You're a cover-stroker.

>>20145197
I like the KJV translation though. If I could find one with sane formatting I'd re-read the entire Bible just for that alone.

>>20145221
I just take the version God gave us as it is and read and study it. The translators just did as God instructed them in making His English version of Scripture. The only "should" I think is whatever God willed and gave us is perfect as is.

>>20145221
that other guy is having a laugh arguing Bible formatting and whatnot. why call him bad things?

>>20145242
GAWD didn't give you the KJV. The pages, spine, and cover didn't descend from heaven in a reverse-Assumption.

God inspired the prophets who wrote the Bible. The translators James hired are neither saints nor prophets. They were devout men. They were neither perfected nor infallible.

You are fetishizing objects.

>>20145255
I doubt that.

>>20144945
and it was there all along. funny, isn't it?
reading the word of God is one of the most important things, and i wish more people actually did it.

>>20145272
it seems so to me. either way not worth it to argue. want to check if you have a proper Bible? check Psalm 22:16.

>>20145272
>hired
They did it for no pay and anyone reading the results in the Spirit can plainly see the fingerprints of divine inspiration and guidance all through it. You are obviously a natural man and therefore blinded to Spirit. I suggest expedient rectification of that situation.

>>20145304
KJVanon, what are you thoughts on the Septuagint?

>>20145172
>>20145221
>I like the KJV translation though. If I could find one with sane formatting I'd re-read the entire Bible just for that alone.
Good news then, because there's a black-letter KJV with translated-supplied words not in italics from Allan. It'll cost you an arm and a leg, but this is the best KJV that has neither italics nor red letters. Most other KJVs either have both or one of the two, but not neither; Allan is an exception.
https://evangelicalbible.com/product-category/r-l-allan-bibles/allan-kjv/

I get not liking red letters, because most publishers suck at printing them darkly so they turn almost pink, but italics are literally only there to indicate words that don't map to Greek or Hebrew words in the original text, specifically so you know that the translators are extrapolating--it's not just for prepositions; that's just where most of them are. The Bibles I use don't have italics and I honestly wish they did.

>>20145319
>muh quotes

>>20145329
elaborate further, kindly.

>>20145304
Keep strokin' that cover. Maybe you'll COOM.

>>20145329
>"Fuck the Apostles and fuck the NT." -KJVanon
Dude.

>>20145341
The KJB is the Holy Bible as God willed and that's all I care about. The early Christians had to make do with what was available.

>>20145358
yeah, you're having a laugh. it ain't funny.

>>20135660
are you being serious when you say that?

This is probably a silly question but how do I start reading the bible?

I have an app that has a few bits to read everyday based on the orthodox calender, but they are impossible to understand without any context

>>20145368
Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts, John, Epistles, Revelation, OT in order.
not a silly question.

>>20145326
Thanks brother.

>I get not liking red letters, because most publishers suck at printing them darkly so they turn almost pink

Faded pink would almost be preferable to fire-engine REDREDREDALAMEMERGENCYEXITTHEBUILDINGINANORDERLYFASHIONDUCKANDCOVER. Anything but that, really.

>but italics are literally only there to indicate words that don't map to Greek or Hebrew words

I know that's what they're for, but that's not what italics are for. I needed a candle and they handed me a flaming torch.

>>20145375
why start at matthew/in this way?

>>20145362
>he doesn't drive drunk

Let Jesus take the wheel, brother.

>>20145388
To out yourself as a retard

>>20145388
It is a nice place imo; has the Sermon on the mount, and is a pleasant read.
fun fact: Matthew being a tax collector had to be able to write down spoken agreements verbatim, so it's likely he wrote the exact words Jesus spoke.

>>20145395
care to elaborate?

>>20145407
That's pretty cool. Thanks anon

>>20145423
you're welcome. glad to help.

>>20135660
>>20145362
>>20145391
I have also driven drunk to the point where I was seeing double more times than I can count and I have no idea why I still have a license or my life other than God was sparing my dumb ass for some inscrutable reason.

>>20145361
>The KJB isn't the Holy Bible as God willed
>The early Christians didn't have to make do with what was available
Ngmi, lrn2seehowGodacctuallyworks

>>20124931
has a miracle ever happened to you?

>>20145362
?

yes...

>>20145474
Not that anon, and yes.
quite sure they happened to most of us too.

>>20145474
Absolutely

>>20145416
Front to back, simple as

>>20145536
i don't think an OT start really works, especially for someone who's never read the Bible. Especially because all the prophecy and prefiguration will fly over their heads.

THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF CURSING IN THIS THREAD.............

>>20145493
>>20145524
how do you know a miracle happened? did something that was impossible happen?

>>20145637
>did something that was impossible happen
In the worldly sense, yes. With God nothing is impossible.

I find Ecclesiastes one of the most interesting books in the bible. I like the realistic advices it gives.

>>20145757
it's some quite great stuff. have you read Job yet? heard they go well together.

>>20145637
yes, to put it simply.

>>20145474
Not in the sense that it has cemented my faith absolutely, insofar as it ceases being faith and becomes a sliver of reality bound to me.

I am plagued with doubt even as I pray, and it worries me that I cannot at all times keep the fears of death and the afterlife from my mind.
I hope God knows through my depression and anxiety I so badly want to love him and serve him faithfully.

>>20145823
keep strong anon. it can look like you're the only one going through that, but we all struggle. pray for faith, study the Bible, and keep going, we're gonna get there.

>>20145637
If it happened then it isnt impossible. Ergo, a miracle is not making the impossible possible

>>20145823
God does know. Ask Him to help you make it happen.

>>20145823
I'm >>20145524 and >>20145685
and still experience what you're describing, other than I do indeed have that "sliver" to hold on to. I have no way to clearly understand nor explain why it be like it is, but it do.

>>20124931
I believe in God, and I feel him helping me CONSTANTLY, but I wouldn't say I have seen a miracle. At least not one that the catholic "church" would define as a miracle.

>>20124568
I can’t bring up the exact examples here but in the Bible is it just me but in the beginning everyone had their own gods? When talking to the king he specifies HIS god and even Abrahams slave specifies that it’s the god of Abraham she finding issac a wife. Just feels a bit strange and way to specific just to be how they referred to god back then like now

>>20146034
*can’t bring up the exact verses here

*when finding

Finished Mark yesterday and my point still stands, sadly it's just a less detailed, less beautiful written Matthew. The next two books seem to be gospels as well. I don't really feel like reading those right now, since the content is the same as in the last two books, so I decided to jump forward into uncharted territories, into Romans to keep things fresh and come back to the remaining two gospels later.

>>20146743
>Finished Mark yesterday and my point still stands, sadly it's just a less detailed, less beautiful written Matthew.
Now you understand why (((scholars))) assume it was the first Gospel written.
>The next two books seem to be gospels as well. I don't really feel like reading those right now, since the content is the same as in the last two books
Luke is the most polished of the first three Gospels, but John definitely isn't "the same content" as in the others. John is its own thing.

>>20146774
>Luke is the most polished of the first three Gospels
I like Matthew a ton, so I'm interested to see how Luke can improve on it.
>John definitely isn't "the same content" as in the others. John is its own thing.
Oh, I didn't know that. Alright, I'll read John next then instead of Romans.

>>20146804
John is the most explicit about saying Jesus is God. Where all the other Gospels hint at it or keep it understated, John literally opens by telling you that God was made flesh and dwelt among us on Earth.

>>20124614
It was God's cum. He basically blasted a load all over the Israelite encampment every night. You might think this is blasphemy but no, every part of the Lord is good and holy. Just like how it would be kosher/halaal to cannibalize God's flesh if he were physically present on earth.

>>20146804
John is the beginning of the fanfiction that insists Jesus existed at the beginning of time and is part of the Godhead, you might feel a sneaking sense of suspicion when you realise that its story diverges so heavily from that of the other, earlier, Gospels.

>>20146826
But there are dozens of scenes in Matthew and Mark that show they are not the same entity. Then again, I am a newbie, so maybe I don't know better. But I never considered them as one and the same based on what I read. I guess John really is different from the rest, will definitely check it out next.

>>20146875

>>20146860
>never considered it
and that's why John is extremely explicit

Anyone here who knows Greek? A certain pastor I listen to online who studies Greek and other languages associated with the Bible makes the claim that in the second half of Romans 1 (Romans 1:24, 26, 28), that the text actually contains within itself the notion of "three nails of God" or "three nails of reprobation." Meaning that after the first and second nail or state of falling into reprobation God can still forgive a person and the person can be reconciled with God, but that the third nail or the third state after being reconciled two former times is final and the Holy Spirit will permanently depart from such a person for all eternity. Perhaps there are mentions of this in academic Christian literature or journals, maybe you need to know Greek or Latin to find mention of this?

>>20147427
the notion of "three strikes" is asinine, to say the least.

>>20147427
This could also refer to the "unforgivable sin" against the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity.

Question for anons. I've been going to a Baptist church. Have been told a non denom church in the area practices "new reformed" theology. What does that mean exactly?
I genuinely do not know. I went there once, alls I know is it was very very new age.

>>20147831
what do you mean with "new age"?
i'm getting a bit suspicious for that.
seems a bit off, especially with all that naming.

>>20147831
I guess to be more specific it's new reformed calvanism
What is that? I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to this. Upon some basic research they are interdenominational now and are seeping into various church organizations including baptists

>>20147871
>>20147871
New age as in New style Protestant
>rock concert instead of simple hymns
>power point instead of song books
>coffee bar
>"warship team" aka band (they're salaried evidently)
Basically just modern mega church
And to be more specific I think the "New reformed" theology is reformed calvanism. No idea what calvanists believe let alone New reformed ones but evidently they are now interdenominational and are seeping into denominational seminaries

>>20147831
Sounds like Calvinism lite
Which is already (depending on what they believe) "Christianity but with blue raspberry flavoring", occasionally straying into heresy if they include their refutation of free will.

Now of course it could also be the 'modern' LGBT friendly woman-led churches that totally support <insert current thing here> and act as a comforting lie rather than a redeeming truth.

>>20147871
>>20147872
Your hackles are not raised in vain, there are many who would edit the faith slowly over time, in that it becomes unrecognizable after just a few iterations. We are practically screamed at to beware this throughout Scripture.
Imagine telling someone from 1922 that 100 years later you'd have Churches
>implyign
promoting sodomy because "love is love"

>>20147883
i'm gonna let someone else answer that then. seems a bit odd, but not extremely off yet.

>>20147894
the latter is what i was afraid of when i read anon's question. Also the former but a bit less, as it isn't literal heresy.
>promoting sin
i bet they never get even close to Paul's epistles out of fear, and take every passage about love and warp it until it breaks.

>>20147894
>>20147896
I'm gonna have to read more about it. It's been getting into alot of churches in the area in which I live. Some of the people I talked to actually left churches over it

Current church I go to does not support said reformed calvinist theology

>>20147921
rightly so, if said reformed calvinism is what i think it is. keep us posted

>>20147915
>i bet they never get even close to Paul's epistles out of fear, and take every passage about love and warp it until it breaks.
Yeah it's a reason I can't bring myself to go to non denom churches. There was one I went to where the pastor's wife was also given the title of pastor

Stuff is bizarre at some

>>20147915
>>20147921
Again, depending on 'how many layers of irony are you on' they embrace it could be something that is easily defined and clearly worded for the modern age or it could be as mentioned the sorta kinda a little bit maybe not but awfully close to being in the neighborhood of heresy.

I can't condemn a Church for owning an identity (nor do I desire to) but I am always worried that when every single Church is open to each of the 1,000 denominations then each line of Scripture will be held in contention and the forest disappears for the trees.

>>20147935
Will do

>>20147947
don't fit yourself into some "kind" of theology like that also. great risk of fitting yourself into a wrong size.
2 Peter 1:20
>knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
study the Bible and not whatever someone extrapolated from it.

>>20147957
Yeah I try to study regularly (I could do better)
I've been going through romans again, taking my time, praying for guidance, taking notes and it's making more sense this go around.

>>20124683
it certainly makes it easier to contrast the words of Jesus with the words of Paul, especially when they contradict each other.

>>20148144
hah. where does that allegedly happen?

My greatest takeaway from studying Holy Scripture is that first of all I am to follow God’s way, as opposed to my way. Paul says that “everything is lawful but not everything is expedient”

And that makes me sit back and rethink myself. Perhaps I am not the biggest sinner there ever was and someone else out there needs Christ more than I do.

>who is to judge
(you)??

>>20148300
but you still are one, as we all are. feeling superior doesn't help with anything, does it?
good takeaway though. God's will is what we should follow, everything else is pride.

>>20148345
>feeling superior doesn't help
Hardly. I don’t have any honor or dignity, but for Christ’s sake I will fight for yours.

>>20148387
i didn't understand

>>20147831
I would think "new reformed" to be referencing the flavor exemplified by Mars Hill Church era Mark Driscoll and the like which sprung similarly and directly from. The specifics I do not know, but I do recall similar terms being applied to them in those days (peaking around 2010ish).

>>20148475
I was agreeing with you but also disagreeing
You said
>God's will is what we should follow
But I insist that God’s will is for us to perform. And die for Him because He came back from the dead. And killed death and sin and them. And you didn’t, and me neither.

>>20146860
John is the most complex Gospel. Inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, along with our Lord Jesus Christ revealing to St. John some of the most important mysteries, he can claim without any doubt or ambiguity that Jesus is God, He is the Word, He always was and the Father and Him are one.
St. John also destroyed through his Gospel gnostic heresies

>>20148755
we're saying the same thing more or less