/lit/ - Literature

confess your sins, /clg/

Help me name my blog on classical history and literature.

>>20127645
Frātrēs Latīnī! What is the difference between the 4th principle part + a variation of sum, esse versus with it omitted? I read that it can sometimes be omitted, but are there other instances where it changes the meaning? It’s all kind of fuzzy to me.

>>20127645
>διαλέγεσθε μὲν τὰς ἀρχαίας γλώττας καὶ δὲ φήνατε τι ἡμᾶς αναγιγνώσκετε.
Βαβαῖ ὦ φίλε ἆνον, ὡς δεινῶς ἑλληνίζεις!
Θεαίτητον ἀναγιγνώσκω τε καὶ Ὅμηρον καὶ Ἀριστοτέλους Ῥητορικήν

>Cosima records him saying of Æschylus’s Agamemnon: “I declare that to be the most perfect thing in every way, religious, philosophic, poetic, artistic. One can put Shakespeare’s histories beside it, but he had no Athenian state, no Areopagus as a final resort.”
>Herr v. Stein reads to us the translation he has made of Aeschylus’s chorus (the female hare and the eagle), and it seems to us very good. “That is religion,” R. exclaims.
>R. then speaks again about this wonderful poem, which contains everything that one can call religion.
>A lot more about Aeschylus’s chorus, he says one could write a whole book about it.
>The chorus of the eagle and the hare was the passage which the great German composer and theatre director recalled on the last day of his life, stating of Aeschylus, "my admiration for him never ceases to grow."

>>20127731
damn i knew i was punching above my weight. haven't had much experience with composition yet

>>20127657
I’ve never read any Roman authors

>>20127777
ἀλλὰ τέτλαθι φἰλε ἆνον· πάντες γάρ βροτοί κεῖθεν ἄρχονται καὶ ταχύτατα ἐπ’άκρότατας ἴκονται κορυφάς διὰ τριβήν τε καὶ τέχνην

>>20127696
Fabulae et Historiae
Fabulam Audete
homo lectus

>>20127645
how long will it take me to learn classical greek anons

>>20127868
Depends on how much time you are willing to put in. It took me 6 months to get a good grasp of the grammar studying 20-40 hours a week with a 3 week Christmas break. After that I contunued with easy texts from Plato, Diodorus Siculus and Xenophon. The most important thing you have to remember is that you'll never not need a dictionary and rather learn to just enjoy the process.

>>20127849
Homo)))))))

>>20127645
This is the ~26th thread you idiot. Count them, include the first non-titled, then subtract the stillborn threads. It's better to not number the threads at all. Who can keep track?
>>/lit/?search_op=op&search_int=dontcare&search_ord=new&search_del=dontcare&offset=0&search_subject=clg%20languages&ghost=yes&search_res=post&task=search2&search_capcode=all

>>20128223
I tried to follow the canon and counted 21. I'd rather keep numbering them like some other generals do as well. It also fits the theme

>>20127896
That sounds too hard is learning latin any easier?

>>20128273
The ones you didn't include had full discussions and were the threads covering that 1/2-1 week period. It's stupid but if you'll keep making them when no one else will, whatever.

Posting this so posterity knows how much of an autistic dork you're being.

>>20128289
The grammar mountain of Latin is not as steep but in most cases the factors that make Greek difficult also apply to Latin. Learn the one that you feel more motivated by.
>>20128303
I appriciate your contribution to the general discussion. I'm not the OP of the previous few threads btw.

>>20127645
Γιατί μιλάμε ελληνικά;

>>20127777
How do you say check em in Greek?

>>20128289
It took me 5 years in school, 6 lessons per week. Than I got a certificate. What makes it hard is that the language isn't spoken today. You can try on Domingo maybe.

>>20128532
σκόπει

>>20128303
>the threads covering that 1/2-1 week period.
those periods*
I saw you included the most recent previous. Why aren't you counting the ones from months ago? They were titled slightly differently but had the same people.

>>20128465
οτι... απλως μιλουμεν,ειεν;; αυτός εφην!

>I'm bringing Ranieri back
>Yeah
>Them effortposters don't know how to act
>Yeah

האם שום גברים ב4כהאנ קוראים ספרים בעברית או באראמי?

>>20128655
>Come here, anon (go 'head, be gone with it)
>Click on my playlist (go 'head, be gone with it)
>L.L.P.S.I. (go 'head, be gone with it)
>Rooma in Italiaa est (go 'head, be gone with it)

Why learn Greek over Latin?

Greek always seemed cooler to me but I have no real rationale for my preference

>>20128801
Because it's technically superior but practically inferior.
>leaves thread

>>20128801
Greek is more beautiful, more sophisticated, more advanced
The best Latins themselves acknowledge the superiority of Greek
Better texts (Homer, Bible, Plato, aristotle... Latin literature starts with a fucking translation of the odyssey by a greek lmao)

>>20128801
A practical reason would be the study of Greek (eg. generally Eastern) patristic texts, while Latin would be more useful for Western patristic texts.

>>20128826
Greek is shit and for cinaeduses.

>>20128801
Specifically for the classic era, Greek has better authors.
But for the whole history of humanity, Latin is vastly superior. Latin has an enormous corpus of medieval and modern authors, that you can enjoy if you know classical Latin. You can't do the same with ancient Greek .

>>20127657
I've never finished the Odyssey

>>20127657
When it comes to latin I write more than I read. I do that out of lazyness. It's easier to do English to latin translations than the other way around

>>20128906
So what's the point of Greek other than covering old ground?

>>20128826
Pictish is better than Greek

>>20127696
Homo sexual

>>20128996
>covering old ground
???

>>20129094
Everything worthy in Greek is translated

>>20129083
Neca te ipsum, scotule.

>>20129106
>he thinks translations are able to transfer the feel and sound of the original

>>20129106
You can't read Homer or Sappho in translation. Also if you want to get in to Aristotle there's so much lingo that you might as well learn Greek

>>20127868
I have put 5-10 hours a week for the last 2 years and I can read >>20127896 what anon said at a reasonable level. It's extremely rewarding but yeah know what you're getting into

I would imagine that reading e.g Plato in the original would have the indirect advantage that because your fluency won't be as in your native language or english, forcefully going slowly will also help cement the concepts contained in it(vs the tendency to read too fast), but would you say there's also direct advantages in reading prose in the original, especially "deeper" and/or philosophical works? maybe a sort of philological bonus?

>>20129213
Translations have you reading the translator's version of the original. The original is pure. Lots of words and expressions are difficult if not untranslatable. Translators take lots of liberties, even supposedly 'good' translators.
Reading a foreign language requires you to think in that language which in turn broadens your mind and modes of thought.

translations are by necessity always removed from the original text by two levels
1) how the translator comprehended and understood the original text and what kind of impressions it made on him and how his subconscious biases shaped these impressions
2) his writing skills when actually trying to convey what he comprehended in a different language
it's a game of telephone really, you'll never get the unfiltered thoughts of the original author in a translation
this applies to all translations of modern languages as well, obviously

>>20129154
>>20129341
>>20129381
These are all stupid reasons. Greek really is for faggots.

>>20129476
what languages do you speak?

>>20129213
On the first point, that going through it slowly makes you approach the text more carefully: hit or miss. Translating a couple paragraphs can take an hour sometimes and you can lose the forest for the trees. I am translating The Apology currently and listening to those long ass Leo Strauss at the same time which has been very enlightening

But at the end of the day your understanding of the text is still limited by being a novice, and there's many high quality translations out there built on hundreds of years of solid scholarship.

The second point I would say yes there's a lot of interesting philological things you will gleam that will only be found in the original texts. A lot of philosophical jargon is rather straight forward compounds in Greek and I think gets over translated in many translations, especially by old school classicists. Stuff that sounds weird in English like "the coming to be" and "the ones having transgressed against us" comes off way more naturally in the original Greek.

I have a much deeper appreciation of certain authors style as well, but I don't think I have a better understanding (just a different onek of the texts compared to someone who would have spent the time I did translating greek instead reading more translations and secondary literature.

>>20129341
The "original" is not pure. By the original, you mean the untranslated received text that has been copied countless times by people of various skill levels. Scribes make errors, and sometimes, the errors cannot be corrected. This happens with every single ancient text. There are also questions as to what the original actually is. If your favorite modern author wrote something, submitted it to the publisher, the editor made some changes, and it gets published, regardless of the author approving or disapproving of those changes, is that published book you bought the original? How about if you bought the second edition, which was reverted to the author's first submission? What if he went back 20 years later for the 3rd edition and picked and chose what he liked from his original and the editor's choices?
We don't know how Vergil would have finished the Aeneid. We don't know how many changes his friends made to it. Furthermore, scribes don't always declare the changes they've made. In some cases, the error they were correcting is not an error at all, or maybe, the error was the author's, in which case, they are altering the original.

>>20127657
I'm a fucking midwit, and that may even be too optimistic

>>20128605
fucking kek

>>20129129
Lingua pictia vivet aeternum

Greek and Roman works are commonly immoral before the Christian era unlike to the ancient celtic songs

>>20129831
Genus pictorum hodie anglice loquitur.

What kind of excersises do you do?
I'm currently drilling declension by doing entire phrases i prepared some time ago and left them alone until i felt like I forgotten them

>>20130053
Loquor Picte nativitate

>>20130191
none
exercises have no place in language learning

>>20130219
Lmfao yeah i guess literally all language teachers since the shumerians were wrong

>>20129642

YOU MEAN YOU HAVE BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE? BRO, NOT COOL, YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST VE ROCKING A 120 TO BE CALLED A NERD NOW GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE

NERDS RULE

>>20130191
Read some interlinear texts instead of you are just beginning

>>20130246
Err no
Thats like telling a man to build a house with no experience and just pictures

>>20130232
true

>>20130264
??? You aren't building the house if you do that you're looking at finished houses lol

>>20130283
>>20130264
>>20130246
>>20130219
I'm getting mixed signals here
confusus sum

>>20130264
How many languages do you speak?

>>20130201
Linguā, quam tu "pictam" vocas, Picti ipsi numquam usi sunt.
Quod hodie habetis nihil nisi Anglicae linguae dialectus est.

Cogito, ergo delenda sum

#Questions

- What book has methods on mastering Greek grammar?

- What book/resource contains all the Greek paradigms?

>/clg/ invites Latinaboos to come back
>thread instantly devolves into inpoot posting
>esperanto tranny shows up again
Better off keeping Latin in a containment thread. Not because it shouldn't be discussed alongside other languages but because doing so here on 4chan is impossible

>>20130822
mamillas ostende aut discede

>>20131554
I agree that latinchads deserve their own thread, but esperanto tranny never left and was the only thing keeping your dying general alive.

>>20131554
>>esperanto tranny shows up again
Which posts are esperanto tranny?

>>20127645
Fuck, another dumpster of a thread, and now the Latinshits are let in again.

>drowns in sea
>sea is named after you
>killed by brother for laughing at his wall
>immortalised in history forever
do greco-roman bros really? is every island/city/sea/lake/piece of dirt named after someone dying near it? honestly, it all seems a bit silly.

CAPTCHA: GAYGS

>>20127645
I took classics in undergrad and I never could get a good handle on Greek

>>20131554
>>20131879
don’t act like the previous few threads were any better

>>20131053
Hansen and Quinn Greek textbook

>>20131879
Again I agree, latinchads should have their own thread so you fags can keep arguing about trannies in peace

>>20131954
I fucking said "another dumpster of a thread" idiot

The Cuneiform posting was cool though. I don't we had much of that before.

Anyone remember the comradery in this general back in November? People respected each other regardless of what languages they were learning. Seems like this year a swarm of new posters brought this sports mentality with them to language learning and alienated most old posters. You hate to see it.

>>20132141
What happened? What went wrong?

Dead thread. 60 posts and it's already in "post every 4 hours to keep the thread from page 10ing" mode

>>20131879
>>20131967
>>20131969
Chill guys and be nice. What's everyone so angry about anyway?

>>20132260
That this is a dumpster thread and that the threads from 6 months ago were actually really, really good.

>>20128906
>Greek has better authors.

>>20132141
>>20132220
Ignore the shitposters. Report them if they get bad enough.

>>20131554
>esperanto tranny
What the fuck is he doing here? Desperanto is not a classical language by any mean (and not even a real language fwiw.)

Why

And so it goes.

>>20127657
i'm learning akkadian, sumerian and egyptian simultaneously but i've never even kissed a girl

>>20133734
It will be funny when you give all of them up

>>20133771
Be nice. Any study is good for preserving civilization. Those three languages are underrated here.

>>20133771
i've been going at it for almost 2 years now

I've studied Greek for five years in high school (covid absolutely wrecked my senior year and we never really went beyond basic stuff because of course mediocrity is a staple of modern western education). I'm relatively comfortably reading Tacitus and that's fine but Greek is infinitely trickier than Latin naturally. Last year I read Isocrates with relative ease and I got the same results trying my luck with Herodotus recently but I really feel I can't reasonably progress to the level I have achieved in Latin. Anybody has any suggestions?

>>20133734
Unbelievably based. Which of the three has the most extant text and what are the best resources for it? Dabbling in one of these sounds like a lot of fun.

>>20133734
sick. what made you interested in those languages?