/lit/ - Literature

>>20120901
Obviously, I already knew that, but it particularly struck me when going through youtube "self-improvement" videos. Whether it's self-improvement in fitness, finance or with the opposite sex, one can't help but shake the feeling that something is fundamentally creepy about it. Despite the positive tones, hyped-up personalities and an "abundance" mindset these people peddle, it became clear to me that they are basically changing their entire personality in order to become aligned with the kind of model society requires to climb its hierarchical ladder of power. And these demands are increasingly more extreme. Of course, nowhere is this more clear than in marketing or even in something as banal as growing one's youtube channel, where marketing or sales experts and youtube content creators basically change their entire personality and create psychological hooks to maximize the possiblity of obtaining mass audience. It's effectively manipulative hypnosis, preying on people's instinctive reactions. With some focus, one can clearly see the mechanics of this beneath the positive, feel-good created content/ads. Of course, these range from banal hair-loss ads to far more sophisticated examples. The more sophisticated, the creepier it gets once you realize it and the more psychopathic the creator appears once you realize the derranged amount of research and the lack of moral qualms that went into this practice of commodification. In fact, self-improvement gurus are the creepiest because the "best" and most "honest" ones openly advocate their psychopathy as a route their viewers should take in order to procure success in society, just like they did, while it never once crosses their minds that there is something bizarre, extremely egocentric and psychopathic about the whole ordeal they are utilizing and proposing to their viewers.

>>20120905
But even beyond the openly advocated psychopathy as means by which one might increase social status, there is something tangibly wrong with the hyper-focus on climbing the societal ladder in itself. It is my firm belief that engaging in this kind of behavior, makes the society as whole worse off. The consideration for the community and for the communal good is with no regard sacrificed in order to procure personal gain. And most of content created by far is focused on fear and anxiety of people or their lusts and desires they can't control, edifying content simply does not sell as well. It seems then that the very process of capital accumulation and indeed most social status accumulation in our society, breeds lustful dependency and the degeneration of an edfied man into a carnal beast. And the vessels of this transformation are precisely the ambitious climbers of social hierarchy, who become the agents of the impersonal metaphysics of financial and social capital, which demand increasing debasement of an edified man into a carnal desire-led consumer. But since these metaphysics of money and status have no actual concrete agency of their own, a middleman is needed who pockets the difference for his "effort" as the vehicle of this degenerative transformation, not only of himself (for this is necessary to become a middleman in the first place) but of society at large, since he becomes the active agent for the impersonal force.

>>20120901
Thats called society and being a literally social animal new-friend.

I dont think it was ever NOT a thing.

burnout society by byung-chul han

>>20120901
American Psycho or My Diary desu

>>20120910
It's not that it was ever not a thing, it's that it's becoming increasingly unhinged and psychopathic on a mass scale.

>>20120910
Humans are not naturally social, that was retroactively refuted by Rousseau

>>20120905
>t became clear to me that they are basically changing their entire personality in order to become aligned with the kind of model society requires to climb its hierarchical ladder of power
I am a resident schizo and I've been going off for a while saying that we have moved away from knowledge and skill (merit), and the most valuable asset one can have today is compliance.

It is caused my materialistic desires, and with the world being more materialistic than ever, more people have these stronger materialistic desires and are more willing to sell out their innate characteristics and flaws to fulfill these materialistic desires. At the risk of sounding like a deranged schizo evangelical, this is literally Satanism. They are selling their "soul" for societal brownie points just for sex and money.

This whole notion of one not being "normal" or "successful" enough is perfect for a capitalistic society who constantly wants to up worker productivity as well. You want to be rich and have sex with women? You gotta be a good, sociable worker bee. You gotta get the degrees, get the skills, so you can be liked and get the dough. Your normal "you" is not good enough for society. You will always be a loser unless you work the grind and buy the latest fashion to be hot.

>noooo you MUST be a NEET virgin and play video games all day and have zero ambition!!!

>>20120967
I think it's more tied to society's needs than it is to morality, although I think we live in extremely immoral times (far more than people believe). The thing is, knowledge and skill aren't that valuable. Being literate isn't special anymore, whereas it used to be 100 years ago. A skilled person 100 years ago was invaluable. Today he's competing with thousands of other people with similar skills. Remote work, digital media, outsourcing, all this shit has basically invalidated the way human beings (at least in the West) have "traded" themselves into society. Since these things are no longer relevant, what matters now is compliance. How flexible are you? How willing are you to bend over, to do what is requested of you? Now being a yes-man, being entirely and unquestionably compliant, like a machine at the service of higher-ups and the clientele, this is something that people have still not fully internalized. Men are killing themselves in droves because of this. This pliability is a real resource now and it's what people are competing about.

>>20120967
Yes, I for a while think now that behind "capital" and "social status" reside the metaphysics of Evil. Marxists get a lot of things right, but it's ultimately a superficial analysis because they are materialists, for them the story ends at capital as a force. Which is partially correct, but non-capitalist societies can be as or even more brutal and derranged than capitalist ones. Which means that capital is not the sole or even main driving factor. It's the metaphysical evil *behind* it, which of course again is impersonal in nature, there need not be some super secret society of Jews/freemasons/technoglobalists/whoever scheming together (though they might very well be one), it's far more effective that an impersonal somewhat abstract nonlocalized metaphysical force drives this behavior through men as vessels for said force. But you can't say too much about it for fear of being called a religious schizo. So you're kind of forced going about your day pretending it's not there.

>>20120905
>they are basically changing their entire personality in order to become aligned with the kind of model society requires to climb its hierarchical ladder of power. And these demands are increasingly more extreme
Becoming part of the reproductive system of capitalism, which is anti-human. See classic Land, read Neuromancer, watch Terminator, you get the idea

Regarding the "return to monke" meme, wouldn't I have to stop even thinking about politics or stop reading books to get to my "natural state". The years we lived as hunter/gathers didn't have this (I know it had politics, technically, but not in such a way).

>>20120924
My POINT is that over hyping the current milieu is potentially theatric. If you read much historical stuff, its a pretty constant thing to say "the right here iand now is increasingly becoming unhinged and psychotic! Its roman republicanism! its roman despotism! its Feudalism! Absolutism! Republicanism! Industrialism! Italian city-statism! Catholicism! Agriculturalism! COmmunism! Capitalism! Fascism! Nordic Socialism! Modernism! PostModernism! Post irony! New senserity! rather than synthesising nature and nurture with due understanding to historical presedence.

It's been a while since I last fell for the self-improvement meme. A couple of years ago when I last cared about it I was mostly in looksmaxxing circles which came down primarily to improving facial aesthetics. While it is vain, there is plenty of research to back it up and I'm sure everyone has a personal anecdote where a more attractive person gets treated better, even in a non-sexual setting. I remember there was shit about no-fap, lifting, etc. but I rarely got involved in those. Occasionally there was the more intellectual and esoteric improover who recommended people got into Nietzsche and Jung's ideas about self-actualization.

What goes on in the self-improvement sphere now? From this thread it seems like its about changing your personality to be more compliant and social for monetary gain. I'm not surprised at this development but at the same time self-improvement books did seem like a gateway into philosophy and other humanities/literature. I distinctly remember people being told that self-improvement is about yourself, not about other people, but I guess this notion has been lost.

>>20121061
>its a pretty constant thing to say "the right here iand now is increasingly becoming unhinged and psychotic!

yes and it's always right

>>20121061
there was no internet before
you are retarded, you do not understand simple things like the impact of mass media and now the internet

>>20121063
Being physically attractive is the biggest advantage you can have. I think even better than being born into wealth or being born a genius. Being really physically attractive basically means society is invested into making your life a success. You have to be really, really dumb and self-destructive to fuck it up. It's the most flexible form of advantage too, you can transform physical attractiveness into both social status and capital very easily.

>>20120973
ya

>>20121079
this is not really true unless the beauty is exceptional. average people are attractive. there are plenty of ugly people who are successful because they are pliable

>>20121079
>better than... being born a genius
nope. maybe 3 or 4 decades ago. these days geniuses can easily make fortunes at a young age using the internet. looks ain't worth shit if you're a dumb unhealthy poorfag

>>20121063
>>20121063
>What goes on in the self-improvement sphere now?

It's sort of merged into one "full-stack" thing. Most self-improvement gurus prey on their customers by playing on their fears, disappointments and anxieties. They research their stuff and know that most people today are disappointed by their lack of wealth, financial freedom and sexual market value, especially men. So you get these self-improvement gurus who offer a full stack thing ie how to make money, how to become fit, how to "game" women, how to become self-sufficient. These used to be separate avenues, you had your PUAs, you had your fitness gurus, you had your business guys, now it's sort of like "make 10k a day with this online business, fuck hot chicks daily, build your shoulders and grow your instagram following" in one single package. The funny thing is, that they'll make it seem like you need ALL of that just to be interesting to some woman. If you head to youtube, most of the creators have realized negative titles get more reactions than positive ones so everything has that angle where if you don't do x, y, z, you're all but assured that ALL women will ignore you. Only alphas who follow my advice and make 10k a day, look like Greek gods with my fitness program and take my personal coaching will get laid and get laid abundantly, everyone else gets nothing. It's that sort of deal, preying on people's insecurities and their fantasies at the same time. Of course because dating is so fucked today and everyone is being priced out of owning property, it's very easy to convince people that this is actually the case and that they have the solution to this problem, if only you tried harder and smarter and subscribe to them.

>>20121108
You can turn looks into money and money into health. Looks are literally the most transmutable asset. This only means you don't know people who are good looking enough.

>>20121071
...I understand them, I just warn you not to be too married to sensationalism. You know what else had a massive impact? cafes and good mail services.

Im not saying there arent massive changed, just take things wholisitcly.

>>20121108
Pic related was a gangbanger involved in several violent crimes. Not the kind of person that is hard-working and high-IQ.
His mugshot, after being posted online, gave him a golden ticket to a multi-million dollar modeling career.
He did nothing. No university, no corporate climbing, no sleepless nights of studying or overtime. Yet he makes millions of dollars and has millions of women all around the globe lusting for him, just because his photo was posted online.
Tell me again how being a genius is better than being attractive?

>>20121119
I can't really be mad at these people. They're the modern day fortune tellers and other bullshitters who make a living on gullible people's backs. People get so upset when someone's dying of cancer and he goes to a "wizard" who claims he has a solution and manages to wring 100-150k out of them. You hear this in the news every once in a while. It's old and rural people of course. How could he! I say, well that person was retarded, he sort of deserved it. B-but muh cancerino! When you are desperate you'd do anything! I just don't get it, unless it's brain cancer I don't understand why you'd put your life in the hands of a wizard just because you don't want to die. It's fucking stupid. If you believe that the wizards are worth a shot, why not try that when you're healthy? It's such a fucking retarded way of thinking and it needs to be punished. These people deserve to be scammed.

>>20120901
The system does not and cannot exist to satisfy human needs.
Instead, it is human behavior that has to be modified to fit the needs of the
system. This has nothing to do with the political or social ideology that may
pretend to guide the technological system. It is not the fault of capitalism
and it is not the fault of socialism. It is the fault of technology, because the
system is guided not by ideology but by technical necessity. Of course the
system does satisfy many human needs, but generally speaking it does this
only to the extent that it is to the advantage of the system to do it. It is the
needs of the system that are paramount, not those of the human being. For
example, the system provides people with food because the system couldn’t
function if everyone starved; it attends to people’s psychological needs
whenever it can CONVENIENTLY do so, because it couldn’t function if
too many people became depressed or rebellious. But the system, for good,
solid, practical reasons, must exert constant pressure on people to mold their
behavior to the needs of the system. Too much waste accumulating? The
government, the media, the educational system, environmentalists, everyone
inundates us with a mass of propaganda about recycling. Need more
technical personnel? A chorus of voices exhorts kids to study science. No one
stops to ask whether it is inhumane to force adolescents to spend the bulk of their time studying subjects that most of them hate. When skilled workers
are put out of a job by technical advances and have to undergo “retraining,”
no one asks whether it is humiliating for them to be pushed around in this
way. It is simply taken for granted that everyone must bow to technical
necessity. And for good reason: If human needs were put before technical
necessity there would be economic problems, unemployment, shortages or
worse. The concept of “mental health” in our society is defined largely by the
extent to which an individual behaves in accord with the needs of the system
and does so without showing signs of stress.

>>20121184
Do you get labeled as a schizo/potential terrorist if you mention Ted K outside of 4chan? He's just so fucking right about everything.

>>20121198
Yes, most people outside of 4chan will be concerned if you say that you think a serial murderer's manifesto was "so fucking right about everything".

>>20121158
This is the kind of shit why if I had potential to find, I dunno, a cure for cancer, I'd just let it rot within me.

>>20121217
haha woopsie

Try this
If you're actually looking for book recs

Desperately Seeking Self-Improvement: A Year Inside the Optimization Movemement

>>20120967
what else can you do? It's the world we live in. Either play the game or just kys

>>20121608
>what else can you do?
I can do what I want. No need to buy into the capitalist rat-racing if I'm not a consumeristic conformist. I just focus my life on doing what I find important.

>>20121615
Only if what you want to do doesn't require those things. Like do you guys think you're beating them or something? Like, do you think it's natural for people not to desire resources or sexual partners? You are merely controlled out of avoidance vs attraction. Still the same operant conditioning rules at play however. You merely chose to get neutered than play the game.

the only people who win are the ones that don't neuter themselves and don't play the game, and get what they want. Dunno if such a person even really exists... I guess if you're born into wealth or win the lottery, same thing really.

>>20120973
yes YES!

>>20121079
How many people that you've looked up to over the years were genuinely attractive? Almost everyone I've ever idolised has been average looking at best. Attractive people are just sex objects whose lives worsen considerably the moment their youth leaves them; beauty is as much a curse as a gift.

>>20121225
Do you think someone has done it before? Discovered or invented something and decided not to share it with anyone.

>>20120928
The only thing Rosseau proved is that we're tied to our biology. We can't unchain our desire to not be alone. Therefore we're social by force or nature. naturally social.

>>20120967
The only problem I have with this line of thinking is that in the first world, at least in America, there is only “making it” and degradation. You’re either working at Apple or shitting on the street outside Apple. The days where you could just work a factory job with a bunch of Polish guys, get married and send your kids to the parish school all while owning a house is getting harder and harder.

For me Mammonism is like an ever-increasing vortex and people need to swim harder and harder to reach safe waters, which is nothing more than a temporary comfort.

>>20120995
Your post reads straight from Ludwig Klages. Have you read him?

Jesus the wall of texts in this thread are copes for being crab-buckets.

>>20122418
Yeah without a doubt. Think about it this way: there are people who become homicidal or something and decide to take revenge upon society in ways that have actual IRL effects, e.g. people start disappearing, and you catch them because of this exclusively. But if you murder an idea, who is ever going to find out? I imagine that I am not the only one who thinks this way. Perhaps I am doing this as consolation but I think there are many people who have understood the reality of the world today, people's entitlement and attitude toward others, and decided to just throw their contribution to the trash.

I'd rather be dirt poor and an unmitigated 'failure' in life than some desperate, pathetic click baiting Youtube scammer with zero integrity or self-awareness.

>>20121063

Lookism/Looksmax nearly drove me to suicide. The facepill can never be denied but go too deep into the rabbit hole and you risk never recovering from it. I simply console myself now that at least millions of other losers aren't getting laid either.

Psl 3.5, norwooding lanklet high inhib mentalcel btw

>>20123161
>Psl 3.5, norwooding lanklet high inhib mentalcel btw
In english, doc!

>>20123161
>Psl 3.5, norwooding lanklet high inhib mentalcel btw
christ I am old, I can't keep up with all the new buzzwords