/lit/ - Literature

did you copy this post from reddit or something, this reads almost like a copypasta

>>20110232
No, I just wrote it off the cuff.

>>20110226
>Is there someone better I could read?
Read the Right-Wing authors and ignore any and all left-wing authors. Except for Le Guin, she's the sole exception of the rule.

>>20110226
>prose
Bakker is the King of prose
Makes him get all the hoes
Bakker rules supreme
Sandy rage and scream

>>20110226
>I'm about 15% done, and I'm having a hard time continuing. There are some interesting ideas for sure, but the characters and the dialogue are so cringe that it makes me stop reading. Am I just being overly critical, or does it sound like the writing of an American high school student who has no frame of reference other than his friend group? Shallan's entire personality is tasteless sarcasm that the other characters always gobble up and praise as "wisdom". And her "letter" to Jasnah was so hilariously childish and retarded that I thought it was a joke. I thought Sanderson was trying to make it sound bad intentionally, but apparently not.
THIS IS THE MISERY OF THE SANDERSON READER

>>20110235
ok
theres a reason why sanderson is such a massive meme: he writes the literary equivalent of marvel movies or anime, basic easily-consoooomable but otherwise competently constructed fast-paced stories that have no lasting merit or interest outside of finding out what happens to your favorite characters and speculating about any unresolved mysteries related to the world-building or the plot.
>Is this problem typical of the genre?
generally yes, in terms of actually talented writers, the fantasy genre has few: gene wolfe, ursula k leguin, mervyn peake, jrr tolkien (obviously), and john crowley are the only ones who can be argued to have any semblance of literary merit.
>Is there someone better I could read?
see the list of writers i just typed out

>>20110248
also ignore this retard, he's a massive meme over on the /sffg/ (which is a place you should avoid altogether)

You got filtered. Go back and try again

>>20110262
Sanderson reader cries in misery
Bakker reigns in absolute majesty
Sanderson read seethes and cope
Bakkerchad always cool and dope

>>20110226
two points:
1: You are only a few hundred pages into whats expected to be a 10 book series, so be patient for the character development
2: yes the writing isnt that great but sanderson is all about the world building and magic system. if you want great literature then dont read fantasy

its good fantasy nothing more nothign less

>>20110262
>he's a massive meme over on the /sffg/
He really isn’t. It’s just one deranged mentally ill bakkerfag whose from Reddit trying to force him in the rest of the general.

>>20110262
>he's a massive meme over on the /sffg/
Who even is he?

>>20110352
King of /sffg/

Simple as.

>>20110352
A failed writer and “philosopher”. Overall a hack not worth reading.

>>20110226
>he reads the Shallan chapters

>>20110226
The ending is worth it, but the Way of Kings has mad pacing issues. I wouldn't reccoment this series to anyone, but I stuck it out and enjoy it. Words of Radiance is good so far.

>>20110226
Kaladin is kino, the general thingy is ok and that bitch in the library is just shit.

>>20110352
Some children's author, I think.

>be me enjoying the artwork on the books and the overall image I have of things in my mind
>decide to research a bit about the artwork
>discover a bunch of cringe fanart
>all the art depictions show brown characters
>apparently sanderson said he imagined characters as aboriginals in some interview
>now I found out there is a reddit skin color guide that looks like a home depot paint department sample card
>people bitching about how book art characters are not brown enough
What the fuck? I imagine all the characters as white, fighting a race of niggers. Where in the book does Sandersoy actually say skin color? I don't count interviews as canon or care. I go off my own imagination. People can picture the characters as poo the loos for all I care. That's how literature works.

>>20110564
>mfw I literally stopped reading one of the books because it was a shallan chapter
I think I may just hate women

>it's another interlude chapter

>>20110262
You had me until you started shilling your favorite authors

>>20110226
If you want to give Brandon another shot mistborn isn't nearly as bad as the way of kings, it's okay.
The Bakker spammer is already here and I actually agree, if you want a fromsoftware world go with him for real. Mysterious god-like characters are from the void of space, patches is in the game as a crow flying around, there's a flying casket ancient AI death god that is awakened through getting biometric input from sacrifices and is worshiped by a bunch of steppes people, their leader is obsessed with not being called a faggot and probably looks like a gothic conan the barbarian. There's an over powered wizard using comet azur who's a philosopher among poets or whatever, he draws autistic geopolitical conspiracy maps, shits in a bucket and uses a cool little voodoo doll. There are weird technological artifacts like a google translate helmet. There's a bearded psychopathic jesus that maxed out every stat but all his children have severe autism, some even more severe. One time a whore fucks an ancient alien and the room is covered with smelly black oozing cum. There's a dark Buddhist cult up in the mountains that genetically engineered women to all be SBBW's which they fuck.

>>20110726
i said they were the only ones who have any semblance of literary merit; none of them are my favorite

>>20110744
>The Bakker spammer is already here and I actually agree, if you want a fromsoftware world go with him for real.
I'm not into a children's author, anon.

>>20110226
Brandon Sanderson is a freemason, his works are heavily injected with masonic (jewish luciferian) imagery and archetypes, as a soulsdrone this agenda should be right up your alley you probably just don't like his prose which has the touch of a rapist.

>>20110226
Just read Book of the New Sun and most of the other stuff writen by Wolfe. Also Conan, and the romances of Chretien de Troyes. You wont find much worth in anything else.

>>20110590
According to Sarderson they are basically south asians with euro hair. Mind you, getting angry about how people imagine fictional characters is dumb af.

>>20110590
Uh, wow, there's a lot to unpack here.

>>20110744
THIS

Bakker rules
Sandy drools
Bakker knows
Sandy blows

>>20110744
>and probably looks like a gothic conan the barbarian

I always imagined Cnaiur looking and talking like Nathan Explosion from Metalocalypse

https://youtu.be/0cLroa8ffzA?t=16

>>20110833
Cnaiur is SVPREME

>>20110794
Well he's allegedly a freemason considering he's a mormon, teaches at BYU, and he was chosen to finish known freemason Robert Jordan's wheel of time. So I can't say with conclusive evidence he is a mason but all signs point to it.

>>20110888
He is a part of the Mormon lit machine, they actually black mail people to stop writing or even dying, then they take over the market with their goonish force, they did that to Jordan.

>>20110897
Blackmail with what? Thought mormons were not into creepy stuff aside the whole secret cult thing.

>>20110980
It doesn't matter with what, they blackmail the authors into getting out of the market.

>>20110999
Where can I read more about this? And who are some other authors they've allegedly done this to

>>20110226
I started reading this after reading the first Mistborn trilogy, and I just could not force myself through the two(!) prologues.

>>20110744
Where would you recommend starting with Bakker?

>>20111527
His blog.

>>20110265
>Fantasy
>Pleb filter

Fantasy and genre fiction is not literature. Go back to playing video games, pleb.

>>20110226
I liked the first book enough. Wasn't until the second book I realized Sanderson is a hack

>>20110226
The prose of modern fantasy literature isn't meant to be impressive and excellent much like how webcomics aren't made with astonishing art, or multiple panels with lots of dialogue (Comic bros know what I'm talking about. )

They're simple and easily digestible. Most people don't want to take the time to digest beautiful prose that forces you to re-read it again to fully comprehend it. They want raw story ; Punchy, quick, and almost screenplay-esque prose and dialogue.

He did this

"That wasn't nice" He folds his arms.

"I don't care."

And they'll have lines like this for pages. Truth be told, I'm not hating, it works, it's marketable. But you're searching in the wrong department my friend.

I started reading his work to see what the hype us about.

I have read the first mistborn and I am about 1/3 through the sequal.

While I am reading his work, I am enjoying it a lot. But then I put the book down I tend to just forget about it.

His work is like popcorn cinema. Its alright while you are there, but once you leave /shrug.

With way of kings specifically, I recall him mentioning that he had a lot of issues writing it. He apparently rewrote it several times, from several points of view before he landed on the one that got published.

>>20110226
Read warbreaker first.

>>20111535
I'm not into political fiction.
Just the space ones thanks

>>20111527
prince of nothing trilogy

I recommend Patricia McKillip. Her prose is renowned for its beauty. I love great prose stylists -- Updike, Nabokov, Dillard, Waugh, etc. She's one of the best.

Also, combined with her lovely prose, are compelling stories with believable characters you grow to like. Her stories have that lingering, almost painfully beautiful quality that great literature has.

Look into the Forgotten Beasts of Eld. It's probably her most famous book. I've only read it once, but I remember it. It stays with me. The ending is really lovely.

>Attached is just some random paragraph from the first chapter

>>20111926
A shame. Since Bakker doesn't separate his political beliefs in his stories.

>>20111979
Ty

>>20111995
> It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Not Aristotle

>>20112009
>educated mind
>Bakker
good joke, tell me another one

>>20111535
Yikes, I didn't realize he's such a faggot. I change my mind about giving him a try. Nothing is worse than a progressive.

>>20110811
Actually it does bother me. I don't like being told that there is a way I have to view them. I always imagine characters as white. Niggers don't even read why should they be in books.

>>20110262
>No Dunsany

>>20111535
Isn’t this the dude who brings up his ex-girlfriend mother or something because she rebuked him in being an edgy teenager, which still makes him seethe tk this day?

>>20112149
Yes. His high school GF was from a Christian family and she dumped him after he went on an insane rant because her mother had said "Bless you" after he sneezed.
His whole body of work is a rebuttal of that moment.

>>20110262
>generally yes, in terms of actually talented writers, the fantasy genre has few: gene wolfe, ursula k leguin, mervyn peake, jrr tolkien (obviously), and john crowley are the only ones who can be argued to have any semblance of literary merit.
I like how everyone here is pretending like George RR Martin isn't the greatest fantasy writer of our generation simply because he's popular with normies now or because of his political views

>>20112246

Really enjoyed it.
Shallan is annoying, but it's okay you mainly you mainly read the series for Dalinar and Kaladin.

Sandersons Prose isn't anything fancy and it was slow to start but that climax made everything worthwhile.

>>20110280
>magic system
Honest question here but why do people give a single fuck about the "magic system" in fiction? Sounds like they'd be better reading some RPG manual instead.

>>20110280
>>20113270
Better off*

>>20110226
Let's go Brandon

>>20112538
Le Guin, Crowley, Wolfe and Tolkien actually finished their most famous stories as well. GRRM is not as terrible as people say he is, he’s better than most fantasy writers, but he needs to actually finish his stories if he wants them to be viewed positively in comparison to all the others. It’s not so breathtakingly good that it’s amazing even if it doesn’t end

>>20113270
For the same reason they value 'good worldbuilding' as much as much as plot, character, theme, and style. Yes, even in classic literature, what you would technically call 'worldbuilding' exists, and has to be done competently, but fantasy autists are obsessed with making detailed, almost mechanical worlds, regardless of if the world actually feels real or not

>>20110226
If you want fantasy like old FromSoftware, you should read Gene Wolfe. But since you played Elden Ring, you're probably a FromTroon, and will be filtered.

>>20113510
Why is fan art always cringe

>>20113562
I suppose you could do better, Anon?

>>20110564
This. They're clearly written to be skipped.

>>20113562
it's from tumblr

Every Sanderson novel is 95% bad to middling prose expounding on the same ideas over and over again, then a fairly cool action climax that closes out the book making you remember it fondly.

>>20111993
McKillip's short stories are better than her novels.

>>20112090
It's for the best. The fag doesn't even separate his political beliefs from his stories.

>>20113354
Someone in a different thread about fantasy fans said that they have their own vocabulary for literary techniques, as if though they exist in parallel, grasping at the same ideas without realising the language already exists. The example they have was “window pane” vs. “stained glass” prose. I think they were right. Hearing fantasy fans describe their terms reveals that they are often concepts that have existed in the general sphere of literary criticism for several centuries. “Worldbuilding” to me is best example, and by far the most ubiquitous one at that. At the end of the day it’s an amalgamation of three related ideas stripped of their individual uses and values: exposition, verisimilitude and the Barthes “reality-effect” objects. Generally though, it just means the first and third, as it usually gets thrown around when the novelist dumps historical or locational exposition in large unbroken paragraphs.

>>20113562
>>20113877
Looking at fanart helps me memorise the side characters.

>>20110226
If you want something like Elden Ring that has substance read The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe

>>20113799
Anyone who does nothing could do better than that.

>>20113562
in this case it's a bad mix of traditional tumblr styling with gundam seed, I've seen worse

>>20114402
does anyone? really?

Still, with a sigh, she grabbed a chunk of the pork in some flatbread. She had left Jah Keved hunting new experiences, after all.
She tried a bite, and was given immediate reason to regret her decisions in life.
Eyes brimming with tears, she scrambled for the cup of water Adolin, insufferably, had picked up to hand toward her. She gulped that down, though it didn’t seem to do anything. She followed it by wiping her tongue with a napkin—in the most feminine way possible, of course.
“I hate you,” she said, drinking his water next.
Adolin chuckled.
“Oh!” Pattern said suddenly, bursting up from the bowl to hover in the air. “You were talking about mating! I’m to make sure you don’t accidentally mate, as mating is forbidden by human society until you have first performed appropriate rituals! Yes, yes. Mmmm. Dictates of custom require following certain patterns before you copulate. I’ve been studying this!”
“Oh, Stormfather,” Shallan said, covering her eyes with her freehand. A few shamespren even peeked in for a glimpse before vanishing. Twice in one week.
“Very well, you two,” Pattern said. “No mating. NO MATING.” He hummed to himself, as if pleased, then sank down onto a plate.
“Well, that was humiliating,” Shallan said. “Can we maybe talk about those books you brought? Or ancient Vorin theology, or strategies for counting grains of sand? Anything other than what just happened? Please?”

>>20115688

>>20115688
I haven't read the book,
this is just a shitpost,
right?

>>20115702
>>20115730
The man who wrote that passage is currently the most popular, most best-selling living fantasy author. All of his books are written with this level of quality. A few weeks ago he announced that he'd written four (4) extra novels over the last two years (in addition to the two or three series he is also currently writing). and launched a Kickstarter campaign to fund publishing the books. As of today, he has raised $32,000,000 dollars. Yes. Thirty-two million dollars. Why the fuck do you think Brandon Sanderson is such a meme?

link to the kickstarter for proof
>https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dragonsteel/surprise-four-secret-novels-by-brandon-sanderson

>>20115641
>does anyone?
Yes.

>>20110226
Read David Gemmell.

I go back and forth on whether I love or hate this man

On one hand he has inspired a hundred thousand redditors to write soulless tripe that emphasizes "worldbuilding" (irrelevant bullshit that doesn't matter and merely pads out the novel) and writes the literary equivalent of Shonen anime

On the other hand he makes both pseuds on /lit/ and bluehairs seethe which makes me smile

$32M says Brandon doesn't give a fuck what you all think about him.

>>20115772
And vloggers make more win a week than a man who works all his life. Whats you're point? There is always going to be disproportionate wealth funneling

>>20115988
*your're'r lmao

>>20110226
>Elden Ring
Another one of these fucking threads...

>>20110811
>Le Guin
Its been forever since I've read these books, but IIRC its kind of mentioned a few times that the main cast is brown skin, but I never got the impression of Abbos or Black people. South Asians on the lighter side makes the most sense to me. I think there's even a part where some character goes up into a high elevation mountain nation where there's actual normal animals and grass and he comments on how pale the people there are.

>>20111535
>I even waged a blog war against the alt right

Look man I dislike fascism and "the alt right" but this is as retarded as you get

Tipical progressive "activism"

>>20116036
>South Asians on the lighter side makes the most sense to me.
No shit, Daoism influence Earthsea

>>20116051
Sorry, I was referring to the Way of Kings. I accidently had Le Guin highlighted and didn't realize that it quoted until I had already posted.

>>20116048
Anon, he’s from reddit, so that’s his bread and butter. Even the philosophy he espouses is reddit-tier. Literally no one but reddit likes him.

>>20116061
My mistake then.

>>20115166
Wolfe is shit though.

>>20110226
>a soulsfag's first foray into fantasy literature is the guy who finished Wheel of Time
the idiocy of Fromdrones is truly staggering

>>20110590
>I imagine all the characters as white, fighting a race of niggers
Based

>>20116097
For fantasy I disagree.

Sanderson's literary output is the equivalent of 200-hour playthrough of a Bethesda game.

>>20110226
> Szeth son son Vallano wore white on the day he was to kill a king

>>20110226
sanderson's strength is his world building, not his prose. maybe you should just try something different.
>>20111993
>Forgotten Beasts of Eld
nice. you convinced me to order a copy

>>20117734
Sanderson world building is small. It feels so empty and lifeless everywhere but the characters. I don't think he's good at world building at all. I think he's just good at character revelations. "Tune in next kaladin chapter to see what the cliffhanger reveals.... after 5 interludes.

>reads pulp
>surprised it's pulp

It’s literally because he’s Mormon. I grew up in a large extended Mormon family and go to BYU. Mormons have never strived for excellence nor pushing the envelop in any artform, they doom themselves especially in film and literature because all of them are to afraid to depict anything that challenges tropes that have been established for the past 2 millenia. Their art is just as mediocre and uninspired as their “holy book,” and it always will be, because all of them are descended from people stupid enough to believe a Freemason who married a 13 year old. The only Mormon art I can genuinely say is worth my time and affection is Napoleon Dynamite.

>>20118336
I mean Mormons seem to have an interest in the arts. There are a lot of Mormons in fantasy genre things.

>>20118232
This. Don’t know why he’s surprised.

>>20110744
>Bakker
Someone posted a prologue of his story and it was just plain terrible.

>>20110226
>It just pisses me off, because the story could be fine if someone more competent took Sanderson's ideas and rewrote the actual prose.
This is how Sanderson always is. He's just a shit writer. That's why he can write 5 books in a year.

>>20110280
>world building
Uninteresting and cliché because that's Sanderson's imagination.

>magic system
Even more boring. Sanderson thinks he's smart with his little rules about magic, but he doesn't realize he has done the worst thing you can do to magic: he has made it boring. Overwhelmingly boring.

>>20111993
Forgotten Beasts of Eld really is a wonderful book. It has (no spoilers) one of those perfect endings where its like a missing puzzle piece falls into place, and everything comes together in a climactic moment thats immensely fulfilling and moving. Its hauntingly beautiful. I'm going to read it again.

>>20110280
The absolute state of the average fantasy consooomer.
t. educated fantasy enjoyer who holds fantasy stories to task for their worst qualities, rather than apologizing for them

>>20111993
>Patricia McKillip
Why isn't she mention in /sffg/ then?

>>20120648
"I don't read women writers" x100
/sffg/ is an absolute shithole

>>20120648
>>20120701
>>20111993

Uh oh. Be careful everyone. The woke feminists do NOT approve of Patricia McKillip.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why this book is so good. The female is actually believable and not some unbelievable strong-female mary sue

>>20120701
>/sffg/
Isn't that just a few shitters?

>>20110248

>>20120834
Woah, she sounds based.

>>20110248
>t. underage

>>20111535
>goes after Don Cherry
dropped.

>>20121044
Sanderson cope, that w*man doesn't understand the creative power of Bakker.

>>20110226
Read Book of the New Sun.

>>20122908
it's non supreme, read Bakker instead.

It's complete shit. It's like a transcript for a video game (not just the cutscenes but the gameplay too) and it's not even the kind of a video game with a decent story, just a generic video game filled with tons of autistic details and even more autistic characters. I can only imagine anyone whole genuinely likes this book has severe aspergers.

>>20123152
To me it struck me more like a screenplay, not in format, but that it was written with adaption heavily in mind, and so ease of transfer from one medium to the next was prioritized.

Everything he writes is YA, and YA is trash.

>>20122941
Bakker is not like Elden Ring, which is what he likes, while BotNS is.

>>20118232
It's not even good pulp, that's the biggest issue.

>>20122941
>read Bakker instead
Nah, he sounds like shit.

>>20118336
I also go to BYU and you're retarded

>>20116048
>Tipical progressive "activism"
What else is he supposed to do? Actually go outside and do something of worth?

>>20115641
Normal people dont mix them to begin with. Fuck off back to your shithole containment site.
>>>/plebbit/

>>20116048
>alt-right boogeyman
>le evil fascists!
Go back.

>>20116064
>telling a plebbitor that someone else is from plebbit
Retard.

>>20116097
Filtered

>>20110226
High fantasy began and ended with Tolkien. Sanderson's work is basically just derivative of Tolkien usually by way of D&D. The religious sensibility underlying Tolkien's work just isn't there in most fantasy literature. It's funny that playing Elden Ring made you look into fantasy lit though, somehow the Japanese can at times produce their own variation on a high fantasy aesthetic that ends up working without the Tolkien influence (Miyazaki is probably drawing more on Berserk than anything).

>>20124535
Bakker is reddit, you idiot.

>>20113285
kek

Why are Fantasy and SciFi works not as good as other forms of literature? Is it just there aren't any good writers or is it that the genre itself deters higher quality writing/authors. You'd assume that some amazing writer would've done something in the genre greater than or equal to Tolkien. Right now it's just TV in book form. Perhaps it's that the story great writers want to tell are inherently tied to our world that it'd diminish if it was in another unless you just made it the equivalent as our current plane of existence. Or perhaps you could write these stories but it requires extra needless effort to do all fantasy stuff that it makes more sense to do it normally so writers don't care about the aesthetic and just write.

Opinions of Rothfuss and Sapkowski?

>>20113270
The interesting thing about Sanderson's work is that every world has a different magic system, but they're all based upon the same source and there are background characters such as Vasher and Hoid who are taking advantage of planetary connections and gathering magic from different worlds. They are able to do so because, while the magic systems are different, the source is the same.

Not everyone can be a master of fantasy like Steve Erikson, but Brandon is a great deal better than memelords like GRRM and Raymond E. Feist.

>>20126645
You're just biased and ignorant of the greats in genre fiction. Most of this snobbery just boils down to class signaling and has barely any basis in actual merit.

>>20126668
>cuckfuss
cringe
>CHADkowski
based

>>20126702
I can't believe this is real

>>20126695
I'm not class signalling. I like reading and I read for entertainment as well as the other stuff. I just notice that most fantasy is crap and good SciFi rarely leaves short story forms. Give me your greats and ai'll check them out.

>>20126702
I'm going through the process of deleting any books by Jews or Freemasons as well as anyone ugly. It's a good way to cleanse and filter out bad works.

>>20126702
Why are they slaves to their sexual urges?

>>20126717
Start with Gene Wolfe then.

>>20126751
You said greats; plural.

>>20126772
Le Guin and Tolkien