/lit/ - Literature

>>20097617
Fantasy is gay. SF is where it's really at.

>doesn't explain the burning heart
>doesn't explain the halos
>doesn't explain the decapitants
>doesn't explain what Seswatha told Kellhus
>doesn't explain the thousandfold thought
>doesn't explain the judging eye
>doesn't explain what happened to dunyain boy
>doesn't explain Akka's visions

jolenta consented

jolenta's consent didn't matter

jolenta didn't exist

>>20097818
>>20097845
>>20097918
We've got a hat trick

>>20097624
seems like it, I've been trying to get into fantasy but I've been pretty disappointed with about 90% of it. Meanwhile I'm only like 65% disappointed in SF.

I'm reading The Great Hunt. Why doesn't Rand just fuck Egwene?

>"BEST FANTASY SCI-FI BOOKS OF 2021"
>open article
>it's just a bunch of shitty novels written by black and asian women
>tfw we'll soon reach a point where white male fantasy authors will be rejected by publishers for the sake of adding "diversity" to the industry

>>20098331
>>tfw we'll soon reach a point where white male fantasy authors will be rejected by publishers for the sake of adding "diversity" to the industry
except that literally happens now

>>20097918
>Severian had vivid hallucinations of his grandmother lezzing up with a hyperbimbo
Deep lore if true.

>>20098331
that's been happening for years mate

>>20098061
shes an annoying whore

Are there any good novel series that read like crime/spy thrillers that just happen to take place in a fantasy world?

>>20098640
The Garrett P.I books are noirs that take place in a fantasy world. They're OK.

>>20098640
>crime
Lies of Locke Lamora

There's no hope for writers who make "top 10 worst tropes" on youtube.

>>20098701
Is there any good writing content on youtube at all?

>>20098708
Hello Future Me? Then again, he's more of a worldbuilder than writer.

>>20098638
Every woman in RJ's writing, except possibly Min, is dishonest, ungrateful and manipulative. They are all the same for the most part.

>>20097806
and that's a good thing

>>20098640
perdido street station

>>20098739
It's always fun to see people talk about women in WoT cause the ones who have gigantic chips on their shoulders end up having the most hilariously off base takes.

>>20098061
Egwene is a terrible person and dies a virgin while Rand fucks 3 other women

>>20098788
I approve of this.

>>20098061
Why would you wish such a cruel fate upon best boy like that?
>>20098788
She actually gets married to Gawyn offscreen the night before they meet Rand at the fields of merrilor and it's implied from an earlier exchange that they fucked right after so neither of them actually die virgins. Just tainted by each other which is arguably worse

>>20098806
I thought fucking her would make her mellow out. Same with Nynaeve, if Lan just grabbed her braid and took her to pound town, she'd be less catty.

>>20098813
That did happen somewhat to Nynaeve though. She is so much more tolerable after they get married. The problem is that Gawyn wasn't the dominant one like Lan was. Egwene had all the experience from her dream rape of Gawyn so she was in control and never got the attitude fucked out of her.

Finally finished this. What a fucking beautiful mess.

>>20098854
Anon, I'm in the second book of the series I have no way of knowing that this would happen, I'm just saying what I want to happen.

>>20098920
Sorry anon thought you were the other anon

>>20097617
Why is that one anon so mad at Malazan?

>>20098806
>>20098854
Are we still talking about sff or is this now a romance/drama/coomer general?

>>20098971
Relationships between characters in sff are suitable topics for discussion. What's coomworthy about anything we mentioned so far?

>>20098806
There is no implied sex between Gawyn and Egwene.

>>20098331
>>20098338
>>20098378

This is why we shouldn't be too critical of the Mormon Cartel faction, soon they will be the only ones publishing books by men.

>>20098457
based and wisdom-gu pilled

>>20099027
There is, though. Just not a fade to black sex scene like other characters got.
>egwene bonds gawyn
>gawyn thinks lewd thoughts
>egwene blushes and tells him they have to be married first
Fast forward to merrilor which reveals Egwene and Gawyn got married off screen. See also:
>egwene is incredibly horny

It's more likely that it happened than that it didn't. Sanderson is just an incredibly prudish author and writing the reunion between Rand and Aviendha was he could manage before risking Mormon Penance, so he didn't write anything more obvious.

>>20099054

>>20097617
Fantssy where goblins are rightfully represented? I'm sick and tired of goblins being shown as manlet orcs! Goblins are smart and very civilized!

>>20099156
Greed made flesh. Purify them with fire, become a slayer of them.

>mfw looking at the Hugo awards after 2015

>>20099297
Don't you mean after 1960? That's when the first woman won a Hugo Award.

>>20099297
What do you mean? That perpetual train wreck is funny.

Is this any good? I barely got through #3 when it came out, and it deadened my interest in the series and the author to such an extent that I only now found out a #4 exists; I have also not read anything by him since. Is it worth reading? How is Sanderson doing in general?

>>20099311
>How is Sanderson doing in general?
He has bought his divine throne in the Celestial Kingdom with the abundant offerings from his unquestioning followers.

>>20099109
didnt include spectral soul's 100,000 year plan that needed a time reset from heaven's will since he became too op with his sovereign immortal fetus gu. Also left out the human path methods of genesis lotus

>>20099311
>How is Sanderson doing in general?
He just launched the most successful kickstarter campaign of all time to self-publish four new books

>>20099050
Brando barely qualifies as a man. He gets pegged on the reg by that chick who ruined his podcast.

>>20099346
>>20099342
My question was more about whether he'd put out anything readable recently. I greatly enjoyed Elantris and the first two Stormlights, but the rest of his works have been decent (Mistborn 1) to middling (everything else) to God-awful (Oathbreaker). I've heard good things about Wax and Wayne, but I didn't find the ending of the Mistborn trilogy very good, so I've not taken it upon myself to continue.
I had seen his kickstarter, but it was a while ago. Good for him, I guess. His publisher is probably seething. Why the hell this is happening is completely unfathomable to me though. It's like saying that my little corner pizzeria is suddenly hugely in demand all over the entire country. I guess Sandy's much more popular than I thought, but after Oathbreaker I really can't understand why that would be.
I feel like a boomer, fellow anons. I just don't get it.

>>20097624
SF is for pseuds. Fantasy is where it's really at.

>>20097624
Not enough religious SF.

>>20099501
Is there any religious SF? Aside from like warhammer shit I guess

>>20099311
It's fantasy Die Hard . The plot is:

>bad guys have taken over a tower
>have taken hostages
>have sealed the exits
>main character is in the walls/ducts/back rooms
>has to evade capture and beat up the bad guys to stop them from blowing up the tower

>>20099501
>>20099506
canticle?

>>20099506
Warhammer is not religious.
Nobody believes in Khorne or Sigmar irl. If there exists such a cringeworthy person, that is reason enough not to consume such """literature"""

That said, there are a few religious SF stories like Canticle of Liebowitz and Perelandra

>>20099510
I'm sold.

>>20099487
Wax and Wayne is a LOT better than Mistborn era 1, Sanderson actually makes characters. Wayne in particular is one of his best.

>>20098892
I hated it.

>>20099510
It's weird how RoW was meant to be Venli's focal book and she just doesn't do much in it. It's more of a second Kaladin book.

Any good science based magic?

>>20099600
wut

Gamedev here. I’m going to make a really good Diablo like video game that blatantly rips off Bakker’s worldbuilding kino, but I won’t credit him, since he’s a douche who hates his fans.

>>20099539
It's probably a bit longer than it needs to be and the B plot is just ok, but the main plot works surprisingly well.

>>20099560
It felt like Navani's focal book more than anything else. I was surprised afterwards when I found out it was supposed to be Venli's book .

>>20099660
Yeah, that's fair. I guess it's not relaly Venli's focal book so much as it's the book that has her flashbacks, but the prior three all matched the flashbacks to the focal character, and Venli in RoW is just there. Maybe Szeth's book will be better about giving us Szeth all the way through.

>>20099600
>science based magic
Teknechads...

>>20099506
>>20099501
Under Pressure/The Dragon in the Sea

>>20098457
This author fucking sucks, whoever keeps shilling and backing this has no fucking taste.

>>20099506
The Sparrow

>>20099660
>It's probably a bit longer than it needs to be
Typical sanderson, really. I think he's said he over-writes on purpose for to make the audiobooks more worth the price tag. Would be nice if he also included an abridged version without the fluff

>>20099549
The opposite of this. It's written for preteens.

>>20099506
The Dune. come on, guys.

>>20099820
I think Rhythm of War's pacing isn't too bad for what it is, but the problem is the only relevant stuff outside of the tower is Taravangian stuff, which is almost all interlude stuff. The rest just feels like fluff. There's some decent stuff with Adolin, but Shallan just continues to not have her full backstory revealed for some reason and it's just absurd at this point.

>>20099780
Did you read it?

>>20099510
Can you read it as a standalone without anything else in the series?

>>20099857
No. Stormlight is his big epic fantasy series. You honestly might even need to read Warbreaker, which IS standalone (as standalone as Sanderson makes things), because it links into the Stormlight series overall too.

>>20099864
That's too bad. I'm not willing to read that much Sanderson for one book with an appealing elevator pitch.

>>20099600
Try Fools' Errant and its sequel, by Matt Hughes. Great stuff. Haven't read anything else by the author though.

>>20099627
Who's Bakker and how would you redpill me on him?

should I read Mistborn or Stormlight?

>>20099948
Warbreaker.

>>20099946
he's a canadian BBC cuckoldry enthusiast who shills his cringy fanfiction here even though he hasnt written anything in like 7 years

>>20099549
>>20099884
The duality of man. I might give these a shot at some point, then. Currently stuck into reading Soviet sci-fi.

>>20099510
>>20099660
This sounds good. Please tell me the main character in question is Kaladin and that Shallan decides to vanish and stop annoying me with her alter ego schizophrenia. If at least the first statement is true, I might try and give it a chance. Is Dalinar back to being a good character? I could hardly stand what he was in the previous one.

>>20099884
My (possibly out of date) impression was that he's starting to get more interconnected than the capeshit movies, at which point I'm finding it very difficult to remain interested.

>>20099560
>It's more of a second Kaladin book.
If he goes through the same fucking arc for the third time, thus having been completely wasted again, I'll kill myself

>>20099993
It's more a continuation of the first arc.

>>20099999
Wasted

>>20099999
Wasted

>>20100000

>>20099857
As the other anon said, no. You'd need the other Stormlight books at least. Everything else is extra.

>>20099993
>the character in question is Kaladin
Yep.
>Shallan stops with the schizo shit
Nope, B-plot is Shallan and Adolin undergoing a Star Trek Q-esque trial for the collective crimes of humanity in Shadesmar, while Shallan is revealed to be even more schizo than previously imagined Also there's a whole bit about Adolin trying to figure out which of Shallan's personalities he can fuck.
>Is Dalinar back to being good?
He gets no time dedicated to him, so no.

For me, it's Larry Correia

>>20099501
Why would an archaic thing like religion exist in an enlightened futuristic society?

>>20100086
>Nope
>no
Wah. That first yes is good though. Maybe I should steel myself, harden my heart, and try and tackle it head-on. Or maybe not.
Appreciate the input, anons, much obliged.

>>20100134
Just give it a read, anyway. It may be a long book but it doesn't take THAT long to read.

>>20099946
Bakker is a canadian schizo fantasist and wannabe philosopher who wrote one of the most brilliant and disturbing fantasy series of all time. He is a highly divisive subject in this general, the object of many falseflagging shitposters and haters. JSYK, newfren.

>>20099948
Mistborn. Stormlight is unfinished, while every one of the first three Mistborns has a satisfying end.

>>20100110
A better question is how a future society would be able to exist with religion?

>>20100307
Star Trek did it.

>>20100317
Lol what? Everyone fucking did it, star wars, star trek, 40k, starship troopers, battlestar galactica, etc...etc...etc...

>>20100307
>he thinks the future will be high-tech
Lmfao

>>20100332
40k has a state-enforced religion, though. And Star Wars has the Force as a religion in a way.

>>20100143
>canadian schizo fantasist
>wannabe philosopher
>wrote one of the most brilliant and disturbing fantasy series of all time
Are you sure you're not talking about Steven Erikson?

>>20100339
>state-enforced religion
No, the state only cares about you following /other/ religions.
Plenty of atheists in 40k
>inb4 "the emporer protects!" being spouted by everyone.
Kinda like how I say "Jesus Fucking Christ!" or "What in gods name?!" despite not being christian or any kind of religious, it's just cultural.
And if you look at the lore closely you'll actually fin that the state decreed religion be outright banned and all occurences are to be punished, but the power/need of religion was so strong that over 10,000 years of the state being comatose it ended up being perverted.

>>20100367
Admittedly it's an odd case, but it's treated EFFECTIVELY like a state-enforced religion.

>>20100110
>>20100307
many forms of religion can exist perfectly well in those societies. an example i've read recently is Echopraxia, but i can think of lots of other, not as edgy ways

>>20100376
>EFFECTIVELY
See I would argue this, when you read the books or any snippet of lore it usually turns out that the priestly dudes at the top are all chaos worshippers.
The thing preventing all that religion from falling to chaos is the marine chapters, and they do NOT worship the emporer, they all KNOW he is not a god, they all KNOW he decreed worship be banned. They /revere/ him, but for the FACT of his deeds and vision, not some fluffy faith based hooey.
And I just remembered, there are citizens of the empire who are still oldschool christians (they have a slightly warped name for it though) and while it is frowned upon I do remember it being ultimately tolerated.

>>20100305
>first three Mistborns has a satisfying end.
lol

>>20100307
>>20100317
>>20100332
This
Dumb people tend to reproduce exponentially. In future there will be even more dumb people than now (and less intelligent people), needless to say dumb people easily fall for religion bullshit.

>>20100441
Sup GRRM

I read sff for fun!

>>20100446
yo nigga!

>>20100441

>>20098332
literally trying to be ASOIAF for women

>>20098332
>>20100460
Same fag, kys

>>20100441
>Dumb people tend to reproduce exponentially
then how come nobody in this thread has any kids?

>>20100450
that's ok, but it shouldn't be the only reason. if it was might as well do heroin

>>20100480
20100441 btfo

>>20100480
Incels

>>20100460
So, ASOIAF then?

any good sci-fi series about space cops?

Finished Gideon the Ninth today. A story about a cringey, meme-spouting lesbian written by a cringey, meme-spouting lesbian and I loved it. Tamsyn's style really worked well for Gideon's antics and she was quite entertaining. The characters were well-done and distinct from each other and weren't overly quippy like I feared they would be. Some things in the story made no sense in a way that was clearly on purpose to fit the weird setting and some other things in the story made no sense in the author-fucked-up kind of way but overall I felt the mystery was well done. The ending made me a little sad even though I acknowledge it's idiotic to mourn a character's death in a story about necromancy and that made me realize how much I had been rooting for Gideon by the end. It was nice.

I'll probably get around to the sequel sooner rather than later. It seems really weird from what I've heard and the fact that it's written at least partly in the second person intrigues me.

>>20100504
It's really autistic writing but Asimov's Elijah Baley and R. Daneel Olivaw books have a quirky mix of paint-by-numbers mystery and oddball buddy cop vibe that makes them fun. Probably not what you're looking for.

Conservative Science Fiction/Fantasy authors?

>>20099948
mistborn is fun, stormlight not so fun

>>20098749
>>20098668
>>20098666
Anything more focused on the members of law enforcement?

>>20100608
Orson Scott Card I guess.

>>20100317
>star trek
>without religion
this is the same Star Trek where Vulcans reincarnate and Klingon hell and Bajoran heaven are real tangible places the characters visit, calling Star Trek atheist is like calling Monty Python and the Holy Grail rastafarian

>>20100355
Having read both, Bakker got more visceral disgust out of me than Steve did. However, nothing in Bakker quite compares to the end of Malazan 2 & 3. Love em both, in their own way.

>>20099948
Stormlight 1 is insanely good, might be up there as one of the most interesting books I've ever read. 2 is great but not as good as the first one; 3 was a pointless mess that I barely survived, which wastes good characters (and might even assassinate one) whilst doing nothing at all to compensate; and I was asking about 4, which anon suggests is generally readable but I'm still hesitant about. Note that it's supposed to be a 10-volume series, with each one being a massive brick. I like massive bricks, but after book 3 (which made having read Warbreaker mostly necessary), I wouldn't bet on the entire thing ending up decent.
Mistborn was decent and started off very well, but I really didn't like the ending of the trilogy.
I'd vote Stormlight if it wasn't unfinished. For now... read Elantris.

>>20100727
>Bakker got more visceral disgust out of me than Steve did
So, it's worse than cannibalism and rape, detailed rot and plague and torture, a crazy woman shoving severed fingers in her vagina while peeling mort flesh from her feet, and child pornography and body horror with infestations and parasites?
I think I'll count myself as too squeamish and give this Bakker fellow a pass.

>>20099510
>>20099539
It's not as riveting as it sounds. I like Sanderson but found the majority of RoW to be a slog. It was so lacking in tension or plot twists or original ideas. Honestly I feel like Sanderson's assembly line writing style is finally showing its weakness. The book could have been good if it had been executed with care.

I'm just a little disappointed.

>>20097624
Why does fantasy kick sci-fi's ass when it comes to popularity and adaptations? It's because you don't need tons of technobabble about how everything works. In fantasy a mage can shoot fire from their fingertips and the story rolls on.

>>20100504
Would you read a series about space sherrif jedi

>>20100727
>Malazan 2 & 3
The ending of Malazan 2 with Coltaine was brutal, but emotional and dignified in all the right ways. Malazan 3 was just fucking disgusting. No restraint shown at all. Like I felt like I needed a shower after reading through the 100 page siege sequence. Jesus fuck.

>>20100743
Fair enough, I would say though, and I am not that anon but as someone who has also read both, that although Bakker gets really dark he doesn't have a tendency to dwell on things as long as Erikson does. Bakker will mention some horrible, evil, act but almost in passing. Often it is no more than a line or two. There is a stylistic sense of mute distance in much of his prose, where as Erikson can be more, idk, "pornographic" about it at times.

>>20100884
If you can mention it in passing then it wasn't that horrible and evil, part of the horror and evil is being stuck in the detail of it, rather than merrily passing it by as an unconcerned observer.

>>20100608
Baen and that Vietnam war image.

>>20098332
o hey a hot girl at my work is really into these. I just assumed they were bad.

>>20100556
>>/lit/thread/S16157388#p16163887

>>20100835
A lot of Scifi is autistic men writing about autistic men doing autistic things. And as of recently, LGBTQI BIPOC women writing about LGBTQI BIPOC women so that other LGBTQI BIPOC women can feel "seen" or whatever, but otherwise not doing much of anything.

Fantasy deals more with deeply ingrained mythic tropes, its primarily psychological in the sense that worlds are sort externalizations of the way people innately order the world subjectively. This is the "comfy" factor.

>wrote a fantasy book
>didn't show anybody
>want to write another one anyways
Fantasy is too fun bros

>>20099506
The two biggest ones I can think of where it is explicitly about the intersection of divinity and technology are Hyperion and Book of the New Sun.

>>20100903
>hot girl is into it
>assume it is bad
This is the correct reaction.

>>20100894
A big part of Bakker's work is the incredible evil wrought by the most unconcerned observer of all.

Besides I just simply disagree with your assessment. The evil is in the acts, the justifications, and the cumulative effect of them piling up. Bakker doesn't have to belabour the point because he is a better writer than Erikson. And if you had read any of his work you would know there is know 'merrily passing it' lol.

Just very different styles.

>>20100920
Nah, out of sight is out of mind. If a tree falls in the forest and I wasn't around to hear it then I don't care if it made a sound.
You must be subject to evil to give a damn about it.

>>20100913
Maybe, but you never know. Perhaps I'll read it just so we'll have something to talk about. Not like I have anything better to do.

>>20098332
Will reading this help or harm my ability to write?

>>20100936
I'm struggling to articulate it properly but the thought stuck in my head right now is when I was describing an ex of mine to my grandmother a few years back, telling her how forgetful and klutzy she was, etc.. and grandma says to me "She sounds very pretty!"
Pretty girls don't go places for reasons other than being pretty, even if other reasons exist, the pretty factor generally stunts all other character growth. Not always to be blamed on the pretty girls, the world just doesn't typically offer much other choice.

>>20100943
I generally agree with you. I work in a fancy restaurant so I'm surrounded by charismatic pony-tailed blondes who have an inch of depth. But every once in a while you'll meet a girl who's the full package of looks, personality and intelligence. Unfortunately, girls like this are emphatically out of my league.

My friends used to joke you have to find a girl who was ugly in high school but is now hot so you have the best of both worlds.

>>20100979
The ones who are smart with interests and hobbies but also pretty all know there value though, the only way to score that deal is as you said, find one that is ugly in high school, but you'd have to do it then and literally groom her, if ugly ducklings come into their own in todays world they figure out their value real quick or get used real quick.

>>20100943
>>20100979
>>20101002
These posts are off-topic

>>20100905
Interesting. I'll reply to your post after I've finished Harrow. I prefer to go into books as blind as I can so I'll refrain from asking you more of your thoughts for now.

Which sci-fi/fantasy woman would have the best pussy, I say Alia Atreides (Book 3, I am not a pedophile)
I NEED crazy pussy

>>20098332
Causing all fantasy books to be titled some variation of A (x) of (y) and (z) is an understated way that GRRM damaged the genre

>>20101008
I would link what I wrote about the first book, but that was before I knew what I wanted to do with what I was writing so it's kind of mess. I only used the structure for it that one time. I really ought to rewrite it sometime. Gideon The Ninth wasn't the first work I read by her though, that would be The Deepwater Bride. In my opinion the first book was far better.

>>20101020
Sure you aren't.

>>20101027
Did GRRM force all authors at gun point to follow his naming conventions?

>>20101047
It's this new thing called a fad, it will pass in time, I promise you.

>>20101047
To the same degree that GOT forced all fantasy/historical TV shows to look dark and ugly and remove all the colors and fun.

>>20101027
Completely overstated in both causal terms and frequency of occurrence.
It happened before, during, and after. You're just being overly emotional about it.

A Lord of Rings and Wraiths
A Lord of Towers and Trees
A Lord of Eyes and Ghosts

>>20101106
A Fellowship of Rings
A Return of Kings
I can't think of one for Towers, I tried but it was comically bad.

>>20101142
A Storm of Orcs and Ents

>>20101106
If published by Tor, it'd be more like
>Lord of Rings
>Towers and Trees
>Ghost of Eyes

>>20100743
Hmm, maybe I should read Malazan.
Do we have a definitive guide to all of the fantasy series with rape in them?

>>20101147
I had "A Tower of Towers" and then "A Tour of Towers" but I think my best is "A Tale of Towers"
A Storm of Swords passed through my mind as well! But I didn't get anything for it like you did.

>>20101147

>>20101033
Well I read through your review of Gideon the Ninth anyway and then followed your links to other posts reviewing the book and was happy to see so many others felt the same way I did about it. It was a very strong first entry, I feel. So I'm surprised to see that you rank Harrow 2 stars lower. Is the drop really that bad or do you feel that it's more subjective, with the changing style of the second book not being as easy to reconcile for you as the first?

>>20101156
>Trying this hard to be a degenerate
Boring

Winds of Winter will be published within the next 5 years and A Dream of Spring will be published posthumously per Martin’s will
screencap this

>>20101182
Just two more weeks. Trust the plan.

>>20101192
Tolkien predicted this

>>20099810
Seconded.

I like Ser Davos

>>20100608
Larry Correia
Somewhat of a midwit, yes, but as conservatives we put our trust in the standard deviation over the average, yes. Anyway he loves guns.

>>20101204
As any good man should.

>>20101204
it's okay shireen, we all understand

>>20101182
Unfriendly reminder that Gurm finally admitted that Winds is not his priority anymore. In fact according to his very own claims he worked even less on it in 2021 than in 2020.

>>20100743
I know it sounds weird, but the way Bakker presents his atrocities is what does it. Steve kinda dwells on each for a while, so that you kinda get overexposed. Like "Oh boy, another Felisin gets raped chapter". As if he needs to remind the reader that rape is bad every single time it happens. Bakker does a similar thing with Esmi, but most of his fucked up stuff is mentioned in an almost off hand way that makes you wonder why everyone (author and characters) treats it so casually. It kinda puts you in the mindset of "Well, if nobody seems particularly bothered by any of this shit, what happens that we don't see?" And as the other guy mentioned, the way certain characters do absolutely atrocious stuff with exactly 0 moral qualms, and then just move on with their day, just compounds each atrocity. In terms of actual "stuff" that happens, Steve has more, but the impact of each is lessened by him spending half a book on why each atrocity is bad, as if the reader is a bit too slow to really get it.

How would you have ended ASOIAF, Anons? Go on, I'm listening.

>>20101226
Dany invades Westeros and goes mad, just in time to get overrun herself by the ice zombies who kill everyone.

>>20101226
Jon Snow becomes a Ring Wraith and kills everyone, Dany destroys the world

>>20101226
Stannis on the throne.
Targs all dead by Stannis's hand.
Jon stays dead.
Arya falls in a hole and is never seen again.
Some kind of convoluted heady weird business goes on and a peace is brokered between the Others and men somehow. Uhh it's anti-war and like poeple who are different can be friends :)
Tyrion dead too
Euron is dealing with evil supernatural beings and is an ultimate big bad of the story.

>>20101226
After the third book

>>20100943
>>20100979
>>>/r9k/

>>20100855
I absolutely agree with what you say about 2.
For 3, I didn't mean the siege section, I meant what Itkovian does for the Imass. Dying to take the grief of thousands of genocidal maniacs, just because he knows they also deserve absolution, even after the shit he went through, really just struck me as one of the most completely selfless and noble things anyone in the whole series does. All Itkovian really wants is to help people, and that's a sentiment that shows up very rarely.

>>20101252
>Stannis on the throne
lmao
Stannis is such a joke of a character. Endlessly banging the drum about his rightful claim and the law all the while he's trying to succeed an ursurper and having been a rebel himself. And he'd mortgage Westeros to the Bravosi crypto Jews to achieve it too. Glad the show humiliated him the way it did.

>>20101170
I didn't like the 2nd person or what was done to Harrow's character. Most of all I didn't like all constant fanfiction tropes. I don't have any interest in fandom. As I wrote, it just reminded me how far I was outside of the intended demographic, which is fine, most works are for specific audiences. I'll still be reading the following books and I've read the short fiction set in that universe. Most of what I had to say was in the discord group discussion, which is included in the Goodreads group, but I forgot how much I copypasted of it there.

>>20101293
Robert was recognized as the rightful king of Westeros by all the powers that be, and Stannis is his rightful heir.

>>20101313
Also, note: I lowered it to 4 stars after I read Harrow because at the time I read it I was uncertain of which to do, but I was convinced by someone else that 5 star was closer and I went with that.

>>20101336
Dany is the rightful heir of Aerys II, unless Aegon isn't a fake in which case it's him. Whether Robert's partners in crime declare him rightful king is irrelevant.

>>20101336
'Rightful' doesn't mean shit if you can't play the GAME of THRONES(tm). Get lost, kid.

>>20101356
A majority decision by the Lords Paramount of the Seven Kingdoms made Robert the rightful heir to Aerys II

I like Stannis, I hope he wins

>>20101356
Aerys abdicated his throne when he went insane and started torturing his lords to death. The Targaryen main bloodline was clearly degenerating due to incest and incapable of rule.

Man in the high castle actually worth reading?

>>20101383
Read it and find out.

>>20101387
Ugh, but I hate reading. You're ruining my life, mom!

>>20100743
>Beneath the monstrosity’s claws, Valrissa went very still, like a calf caught in the jaws of a wolf. Her terrified eyes turned from Aëngelas, and rolled upwards beneath their lids, as though trying to peer at the figure behind her.
>“Valrissa!” Aëngelas screamed. “Valrissssaa!”
>Holding her by the throat, the thing languorously picked her clothing away, like the skin of a rotten peach. As her breasts fell free, round-white with soft-pink nipples, a sheet of sunlight flickered across the horizon, and illuminated her lithe curves … But the hunger that held her from behind remained shadowy - like glistening smoke.
>Animal violence overcame Aëngelas, and he strained at his leash, gagged inarticulate fury.
>And a husky voice in his soul said: We are a race of lovers, manling …
>“Beaaassee!” Aëngelas wept. “I don’t knoooowww …”
>The thing’s free hand traced a thread of blood between her bosom across the plane of her shuddering belly. Valrissa’s eyes returned to Aëngelas, thick with something impossible. She moaned and parted her hanging legs to greet the abomination’s hand.
>A race of lovers …
>“I don’t know! I don’t! I don’t! Beaase stop! Beaasse!”
>The thing screeched like a thousand falcons as it plunged into her. Glass thunder. Shivering sky. She bent back her head, her face contorted in pain and bliss. She convulsed and groaned, arched to meet the creature’s thrusts.
>And when she climaxed, Aëngelas crumpled, grasped his head between his hands, beat his face against the turf.
>The cold felt good against his broken lips.
>With an inhuman, dragon gasp, the thing pressed its bruised phallus up across her stomach and washed her sunlit breasts with pungent, black seed.
>Another thunderous screech, woven by the thin human wail of a woman.
>And again it asked the question.
>I don’t know …
>These things make you weak, it said, tossing her like a sack to cold grasses. With a look, it gave her to the Sranc—to their licentious fury. Once again, it asked the question.
>The abomination then gave his weeping son - sweet, innocent Bengulla - to the Sranc, and once again asked the question.
>I don’t know what you mean …
>And when the Sranc made a womb of Aëngelas himself, it asked - with each raper’s thrust, it asked …
>Until the gagging shrieks of his wife and child became the question. Until
his own deranged howls became the question …
>His wife and child were dead. Sacks of penetrated flesh with faces that he
loved, and still … they did things.
>Always, the same mad, incomprehensible question.
>Who are the Dûnyain?

Overall, apart from a few moments there's not much gorebloodviolencegutsohfuck in Bakker, I agree with
>>20101222
is that Bakker often treats moments of horror with clinicians coldness. At some point, for example, Kellhus demands a city to cull it's population and hang the bodies on the walls, and it's described in the passing like a joke.

>>20101403
Why are you even here if reading a 240-page book is too much for you?

Through Targaryen inheritence alone, Robert is 2nd or 3rd after Viserys in line to the throne at the end of the war. Unless there are other cadet branches of the royal family that are never mentioned.

>>20101407
If that’s Bakker’s writing then it’s even more disappointing then I imagine.

>>20101410
In truth, it was more about weather or not I should bother acquiring the book, If anons said it's kinda shite, I probably would just not have bothered. Like you said, it's not like I can't sacrifice the afternoon to read trough it.

What are some books with unironic military worship or military worship that's meant to be critical yet comes off as being unironic and badass

>>20101434
pick literally any of the thousands of dogshit military scifi novels written by ex amerikkkan "servicemen" and you'll get this
about 5 of them remember to be fun

>>20101415
Yes exactly, that's why he was able to usurp them and also displace the Lannsters, because the Baratheons are legitimized by Targ blood.

Targaryen bloodline doesn’t mean shit, power determines who sits on the iron throne and Robert won

>>20101450
>able
I mean "allowed"

Finished rereading the first Miles Vorkosigan book
Miles is a brilliant character but Ivan is absolutely genius writing. A book full of smart characters coming up with plans out of nowhere and the closest thing to a deus ex-machina is a guy too stupid to fall into a trap

>>20101453
Robert himself knows he's illegitimate which is why he's so paranoid about Viserys and Danaerys across the sea.

>>20101473
Are you stupid? I said “legitimacy” means absolutely nothing and only power determines who rules. Joffrey wasn’t a Baratheon but he still ruled because he had power

>>20101428
They overhype him. He's just a mediocre fantasy writer.

>>20101428
What kind of idiot judges a writer but a single paragraph? Nobody writes brilliantly all the time, every artist has moments of greatness and slump, complexity and crude pornography. Not everyone is a tryhard like Nabokov with an agenda to exhaust their reader as quickly as possible. Genre writers are affected more than anyone, perhaps, since their stories span thousands of pages.

>They gathered upon the inner rim of the Occlusion, the Sons of the Race of Men. Humanity, whose lives wilted so soon after budding, whose generations passed as storms and gentle rains. Ephemeral, yet fertile, and so forever new, casting nations like mantles, as ignorant of their origin as they were terrified of their demise. Humanity had arrived in all its turbulent,
amnesiac might, come to obliterate Golgotterath. Thunyeri dwarfing Shigeki, their skin jaundiced for being so fair. Galeoth cowing Scarlet Schoolmen for the violence of their demonstration. Nansur Columnaries standing immobile, deaf to any officer’s cry. Ainoni caste-nobles pawing white upon their cheeks. Thousands upon thousands gazing, witless for incredulity, paralytic for shame and horror, alien gold pricking their eyes …
>Men, the cracked vessel from which the Gods drank most deep.
>Some had been petty unto murder in their past lives, knifing brothers for the merest slight, while others had been generous unto folly, abiding faithless wives, starving to carry witless parents. It did not matter. Gluttons and ascetics, cowards and champions, reavers and healers, adulterers and celibates—they had been all of these things ere they had taken up their Holy Aspect-Emperor’s Great Ordeal. And for all their numberless differences, they need only look to fathom one another, to know whether they would be greeted or ignored or attacked. To be a Man is to understand and be understood as a Man, to blindly honour expectation so that others might gamble accordingly. For it was the way they repeated one another that made them Sons of Men. >Despite their numberless feuds and grudges—for all their divisions—they stood as one before the heinous image.
>The Great Ordeal … nay …
>Humanity, horrid and beatific, frail and astounding, come to collect their future from wicked debtors.
>One race, come to fathom the Ark with sword and fire, and to at long last exterminate the Unholy Consult.

>>20101493
blink twice if you're trapped in a cult, Anon

>>20101493
>Not everyone is a tryhard like Nabokov
Imagine shitting on Nabokov to defend a mediocre writer. Anon, you need to read more books.

>>20100608
All non-grimderp fantasy writers are conservative.

>>20101669
You really have a way with asserting the easily disproved with confidence.

>>20101493
This isn’t convincing. All this proves to me that Bakker is overhyped.

I've ran out of sff works by women that I currently planned on reading that have already been published. I'll have to find more eventually.

Mysterious signals
Alien technology/probes
What are the best sci-fi books with this premise?

>>20101773
I mean books which have either of these two premises

>>20099948
If you are new to brandon's work, I would suggest reading in the following manner
1. shadows for silence in the forest of hell (his best work, a short novella)
2. the emperor's soul (closely ties for his best work yet, also a short novella)
3. warbreaker (sets the tone for most of his later works, has an intriguing character)
4. aether of the night (unreleased, you can easily find it online, much better than some of his later works imho)
5. elantris (set in the same world as the emperor's soul)
6. mistborn era 1 but only so you can read mistborn era 2 which is his strongest block of series
7.stormlight archives 1&2
8. stormlight archives 3&4, only advised for the most ardent, his pace and writing never his strongest in almost all his works drags down both the books

>>20101824
If that's meant to be all the Cosmere, there are reading order charts, than you've missed a few.

>>20101493
>To be a Man is to understand and be understood as a Man, to blindly honour expectation so that others might gamble accordingly.

what a line, there are these nuggets in bakker's works that are almost maddening in their import; its like these lines are his story, the rest is chaff. One line with all the weight of human history behind it

>>20101740
Overhyped? Compared to what? Can you name 5 better living fantasy authors? I would sure to live in a perfect world where the likes of Bakker are middling grinders of pulpy airport novels, but the world we live in is the one where fantasy charts are topped by the likes of Rothfuss and Jemisin and their wholesome antiracist lgbt adventures, so insulting authors that try to maintain a modicum of literary integrity seems stupid.
And overhyped by whom? The dude literally cannot get published cause his books aren't selling. Bakker is a nobody. His subreddit has 2k members. Sanderson is at 160k, GURM is at 711k.

>>20101902
Truly absurd that it's almost 20 years since Prince of Nothing and still fantasy genre fiction hasn't produced anything as compelling.

>>20101902
>Can you name 5 better living fantasy authors?
George RR Martin, Steven Erikson, Guy Gavriel Kay, Caiseal Mór, Brian Mcclellan

>>20101944
Nice choices?

>>20101944
Really, you have said Sanderson. It would have been more than enough.

>>20101226
Too tired too write all important things but a few things I expect
>dragons/white walkers wiped out permanently removing magic from the world in final destructive all encompassing battle
>Tyrion manipulates Dany into invading
>Cersei tries to nuke Kings Landing with wild fire in order to kill Dany
>Jaime chokes a bitch (Cersei) fullfilling prophecy and basically being a repeat of Aegon and completing his redemption arc
>honestly after Stannis takes Winterfell (hes goona win in the books) I have no idea what I would do with him kill him off somehow I guess
>Jon Con causes shitstorm by bringing over Greyscale (severely underrated hateable character)
>Melisandre revives Jon and Howland Reed reveals him as Son of Rhaegar (maybe he fights Stannis with wildlings after he takes Winterfell)
>Jon also has to be invovled with ending the long night since hes Azor Ahai
God that fat shit left so many plots open and cant even write a page a day, idk if hes lazy, doesn't give a shit or if he wrote himself into a corner but someone has to kidnap him and make him finish it

>>20101293
Robert is king by right of conquest targcels can whinge about it but if they want the throne they can take it from Stannis' cold dead hands

So why is Malazan such a huge meme?

>>20101839
the only things missing on that list are white sand (a graphic novella), way of kings prime (unreleased then, available now as a gimmick article) and liar of parthinel (unpublished)

>>20102026
It was written by a Canadian. And outside of Gavriel Kay, Canada doesn't have a lot of good fantasy authors.

>>20102026
It filters a lot of people because you have to read until book 5 to have any idea what's going on

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/g39358054/best-sci-fi-books/

esquire's best scifi of all time, in conjunction with its best fantasy of all time list released earlier

how many have you read?

>>20102039
You keep posting this just to stir up shit. Don't you got something better to do?

>>20102041
not particularly, i am a key 4channel demographic

>>20102038
Is it immersive?
Does it have good world building?

>>20101473
No dumbfuck, he literally just hates Targaryen's because of how he percieves what happened to Lyanna. On his death bed he regrets trying to kill Daenerys and tells Ned to stop the assasins
>>20101984 I meant Aerys not Aegon >>20101204
He's boring and kinda cringe with how much he sucks Stannis' dick. He's like that relatable every man boomer whos easy to manipiulate
>>20101063 thats only in the tv show, in the books every other character is over the top as bright color was a sign of wealth and power i.e Renly and littlefinger . The heraldry was also a lot more ridiculous and prominent like a guy casually with a unicorn helmet
>>20100367
Go tell a member of the inquisition you don't believe in the Emperor's light then. There absolutely is state enforced religion they just cant bother weeding out fedora tipper heretics when they have planets being overrun by Tyrannids

>>20100884
nigga, did you even read Bakker?

the entire first half of TUC is the aftermath of the scalding, just constant cannibalism and rape.

>>20100855
siege of capustan didn't really seem horrible to me in the way you seem to be describing it. yeah, the tenescowri were eating/raping bodies, but it was not explicit in every scene.

now hetan in book 9? THAT was some pretty hard shit to read.

>>20102053
Yes

>>20102051
Man, what a sad existence.

>>20102033
Nope, still missing others, such what's in here:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28595941-arcanum-unbounded

Whats the best hard scifi book for a complete novice reader? Like last book I read was harry potter when I was 10 tier.

>>20101984
>>Jon also has to be invovled with ending the long night since hes Azor Ahai
That's Stannis.

>>20102053
Yeah but there's no hand holding. You get dropped in the middle of an ongoing story without any of the usual exposition. Characters will reference people, places, and events that you have no way of knowing about, and they don't bother to explain in detail what they're referring to, so you just have to remember these names and hope for more details later. You also don't get a lot of background information on most of the characters when you meet them, and you have to gradually collect details about them throughout the story as they become relevant to the plot. There's also a lot of characters, and you don't stop meting new characters until book 7. So a lot of people get exasperated reading the series. You have to be very comfortable with jumping around between a lot of characters and places, with not really understanding the larger context for the story for several books, and not having easy exposition to explain everything for you.

>look into China Miéville's stuff
>actually seems neat at first glance
>Miéville himself turns out to be a turbomarxist faggot who singlehandedly pozzed the academic side of international law
Any actual good modern sf that isn't gigapozzed?

>>20101944
>Caiseal Mór

>>20102100
Try Foundation by Asimov. It's far-future "hard," not near-future, but it's nice anyhow.

>>20102106
yeah, that's right, Caiseal Mór. He's better than Bakker, and you can seethe about it.

>>20102121
Looks like he took the red pill. I’ll check his work.

>>20102103
>>20102060
Great, sounds exactly like what I'm looking for

>>20102100
>Whats the best hard scifi book for a complete novice reader?
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress

>>20102106
So, do you have any argument? Or is that picture the best you got?

>>20101944
I forgot to add Joe Abercrombie

>>20102103
Not him, but what are my chances of being filtered if I take the plunge and read it?

>>20102171
I posted it because I thought it was funny. You don't think it's funny that his parents tried to beat the retard out of him and he wrote a book called Autism and Me? .

>>20102205
No, because I ain’t a psycho.

>>20102205
>book called Autism and Me? .
You should really read his autobiography. Caiseal is a born writer and it shows.

>>20102210
You're a big weepy vagina with legs, stop being upset. He's wearing a popped collar with flaming leaves coming out of his fingers and he has dreadlocks.

>>20102222
Having some common decency is wrong now?

>>20102228
He's just being an edgelord. ignore him.

Baiting autists in this thread is not fair sport anon
I know the cover was funny but come on, it's fish in a barrel here

>>20102193
>Joe Abercrombie
I keep reading about him here. I hear his new series is good. Should I read his book.

>>20101226
I just want a Good Bolton to show up. The entire family can't be sociopaths, right?

>>20101204
Everyone does. He’s literally the best character next to Stannis. I wish he got more chapters.

>>20102276
The entire family consists only of Roose who keeps bolting on new skins to deceive people about his immortality. He only tolerates Ramsay, because he intends to steal his son's identity as heir of the Dreadfort when the time is right.

>>20102276
Didn’t the new book about the world of ice and fire shows a female Bolton name Barba, being good and caring about the people of the north.

>>20102287
Here's a poor photo of her.

>>20102286
Yeah, but the problem of that theory is that Rose let his true born son to die for nothing. And if arts of him are to believe, he was a spitting image of roose.

>>20102286
>only tolerates Ramsay, because he intends to steal his son's identity as heir of the Dreadfort when the time is right.
If that theory is true, then Roose is more of an idiot than I imagine. Ramsay looks nothing like him, save for the eyes. His son, Domeric, was a more worthy option.

>>20102291
Roose didn't intend for Domeric to die prematurely, but Ramsay serves as a backup plan just well.

>>20102294
The eyes are important, for they are the only part of his body Roose can not disguise. He only bolts on a new skin after all. If Ramsay had different eyes, he had killed him in cold blood for fucking up his planned identity switch.

>>20102294
Here's how Roose looks in comparison.

>>20102286
>>20102299
The Bolt-on theory never made sense. It hinges on a lot of assumptions for it to make sense. I mean, in your opinion, what makes it true?

>>20102308
Obviously there is no hard evidence for it, but the circumstantial evidence seems compelling to me. Roose is noted to be seemingly ageless. Attention is always drawn to his almost otherworldly eyes. His house is known for the practice of flaying and we as readers additionally know that in the world of Westeros it's possible to wear another human's skin as a disguise as demonstrated by the Faceless Men. Roose allowing Ramsay to live despite Ramsay being extremely troublesome for him is most suspicious unless he has some important use for him or rather for his skin later down the line. Ramsay is certainly not needed as his heir, since he fully expects Fat Wanda to birth him new children. House Bolton is also curiously small, which goes well with its primary purpose being to host Roose throughout the ages.

>>20102323
>House Bolton is also curiously small
Not him, but aren't all northern houses small compared to the South? Like House Stark is just Ned and his children with his little brother being the only other Stark.

>>20102330
The Northern houses do seem to be small, but even the Starks have a cadet branch in the Karstarks. Need had a brother and fathered multiple children himself. But for House Bolton, Roose is the only member of prominence aside from whoever is Roose's heir apparent at the time. Again it's just a hunch, but given all the other bits and pieces, his house seems suspiciously Roose-centric compared to every other noble house in the story.

>>20102330
Yeah, House Mormont is just Maege And her daughters. The only big Northern house is the Manderlys and that’s due to them being Southern and lords of white harbor.

ASoIaF is a pile of crap that will never actually go anywhere or resolve even if the series is finished. GRRM is the JJ Abrams of fantasy authors.

>>20102346
Seethe, anon. ASoIaF is a good series.

>>20098457
Diversify your posts at the very least, guy. Maybe add some blurbs or bullshit from the books. There's enough mythological allegory from Ren Zhu to fill a few. It's about all the book has to offer.

Made a vow to complete any book I pick up this year because I don't think I give enough a fair try. 200 chapters of this fucking mess and it has almost no redeemable qualities other than the Ren Zhu chapter setups. Fang Yuan is a Gary Stu, even considering he's reliving his own life and exploiting his memories in the situation. The 'butterfly effect' changes history in his favor, facilitating his success more than once to provide him the most powerful Gu (progression bugs) in the region.

The only other part of Book One worth mentioning is the Divine Investigator, who does touch upon some interesting occurrences in the book that the reader wouldn't have thought of at first glance. All to determine who killed the son of a famous merchant caravan. Unfortunately this plot is quickly abandoned as we need to end the novel in the next 10 chapters, so most of the characters involved are killed to make sure our NEFARIOUS BAD GUY MC can win.

4/10, won't bother with Book Two. Those of you who can read all 2,4000+ chapters and still wax on about it deserve some applause. That or you're drumming up artificial hits to his Royal Road to make China remove the ban on it.

would you read it?

>>20102323
Your points are reasonable, and I can see why you believe in the Bolt-on theory. But I still have my doubts.

>>20102358
Sounds interesting, so yes.

Opinions?

>>20102363
About what?

>>20102363
>reading anything from a nazi
how about no

>how abou-ACK!

>>20102340
>but even the Starks have a cadet branch in the Karstarks.
They had two, until they exterminated the other

>>20102363
>>20102373
Fuck off.

Fuck I love Dune it's so fucking cool

>>20102358
No, but I have read similarly trashy stuff that actually aligns with my kinks and interests so I'm not gonna throw stones about it.

>>20102389
lmao

>>20100681
I mean the obvious choice might be the Watch series in Discworld? They're probably not what you're actually looking for though, they can be a bit light.

>>20102357
>The 'butterfly effect' changes history in his favor, facilitating his success more than once to provide him the most powerful Gu (progression bugs) in the region
There is a reason behind that, it is explained later in the story, it is an integral part of the main plot.

>>20102449
The more you defend this, the more the story sucks.

>>20102358
>tony stank

>>20102358
Shit like this is what I like about self-publish books.

>>20102380
Man, Ned was not cut out to be leader of house stark.

>>20102294
Man, I wish Domeric was alive. It would have been an interesting contrast to his father.

>>20102468
Having read Fire and Blood, Cregan Stark was the most based man to ever walk the lands of Westeros

>>20102474
>Domeric was alive. It would have been an interesting contrast to his father.
I wonder how he would have viewed the Red wedding, or if he would have supported his father in sacking Winterfell.

>>20102449
That's not an acceptable excuse for providing your MC the entire world in the very first book. If it's integral to the main plot then it sounds like further padding for the MC, who already has the benefit of 600 years of life to fall back on. It'd be one thing if the MC was earning these victories through his knowledge of the past. I did really enjoy the approach to finding the Liquor Worm at first. By the end of it, the entire world seemed to exist to convenience him... because it does.

Feel free to explain why and how the butterfly effect comes into play. I've got no interest in reading further but at least it'll provide me a laugh on how off the rails this story inevitably gets. Time/Space Gu? Gu are bugs as is - does the Spring Autumn Cicada undergo a metamorphosis and become the Winter Causality Butterfly?

>>20102477
>Cregan Stark
Yeah, I heard he was in a similar situation as Ned, but he didn’t fucked up nor did he played around and dealt with all of his enemies swiftly and brutally.

>>20102477
>>20102482
I'm still waiting for The She-Wolves of Winterfell novella. I actually want to see the North and Winterfell govern by someone else.

>>20102479
It is not really butterfly effect, his entire 500 years reincarnation and even his refining of spring autumn cicada (with success rate of less than 1%) was arranged. Events in his first life happened and it got to the point where the only way to fix everything was to send someone back in time, to prevent things from happening, this was all arranged behind Fang Yuans back.

>>20102495
>She-Wolves of Winterfell novella.
Never going to happen.

>>20102502
Fuck you, a man can dream.

>>20102504
Coombrain dreamer

>>20102507
What? I just want to see the House Stark succession crisis that plagued the House for several generations.

>>20102509
I wonder if the succession crisis is what made house stark a small noble house with no extended kin.

>>20102512
All I know is that a struggle for power among the ladies on behalf of their children is happening and House Stark is going to enter a civil war.

New thread
>>20102516

Starting with Robert E Howard, which should I read first and what am I in for?

>>20102520
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Robert_Ervin_Howard#Other

>>20099560
It was such a disappointment in my opinion. Other than a few stand out moments and surprises

>>20101002
If a woman becomes prettier (loses weight, particularly surgery, etc.) and believes she can score a better mature now she 100% leaves the man of at least cheats on him.
Only way would be to brainwash her into thinking she is undesirable for some reason. Not exactly a healthy relationship, then again only a tiny fraction of relationships is healthy.