/lit/ - Literature

Frogposting cunt

That’s because there is actually no story to tell. Life is the most mundane it has ever been, and yes, I’m absolutely convinced of that.

>>20075476
>I went here. I saw this thing
That’s called a story.
I hate this board. Way too full of woe-is-me faggots who think they’re some troubled genius because their third grade teacher told them they were smart. What are you looking for here? More pats on the head? Jfc, find something fulfilling to do with your life kid

>>20075476
Have you ever thought that might be because you’re awkward as fuck to talk to and people don’t want to engage you beyond superficial chit chat?

>>20075476
I can tell funny and cool stories for hours and hours while normies can basically talk about what their mortgage is locked in at and what hockey/nba/nfl team they're following

>>20075546
That's why the pub exists you fucking nerd.

>>20075568
No, the pub exists so the common dreck can piss away their hard-earned wages on poison. And maybe fingerblast a fat bitch in the Morrisons car park behind the pub if they’re lucky.

>>20075476
it's true. most people are boring, dumb and delusionally self-centered and will never change.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9HgzXVVo6E

>>20075598
Can tell you have zero social life you fucking nerd.

Do you know how many awesome afterparties I've had here? I guarantee you could not post a photo of a cool place you've lived.

>>20075603
How desperate are you for validation that you’re trying to show off on a Mongolian yak-milking forum lmao

You made a thread trying to get other people to validate your (misguide) superiority over normies, and now you’re trying to get other people to validate your alcoholism because “dude look at this cool crack den”? Pathetic

>>20075623
You have never even had fun.

You have nothing to write about... I have oodles to write about, but I am banned from society so I have no way to market except to losers like you who hate anyone who has had fun!

shitkick.ca

>>20075650
So many assumptions, yet so little substance. Let’s be real, you market to “losers” like me because no one else wants to read your garbage. And even us alleged losers aren’t interested in it either. But please, keep posturing. it only makes you look more cringe thinking you have something to prove to a stranger on the internet.

>>20075545
oblivious zoomers and delusional poltrannies think that society before smartphones and widespread internet use was this amazing place where everyone were laid-back and amiable, and complete strangers had long dostoevskian conversations with each other, when in reality, if you were the type of person who'd end up on this godforsaken board later on, you were more likely to get a kicking from the local townies just for looking/acting like a spaz than making any sort of friends outside of a university setting. i respect their yearning, though, however false and misguided

>>20075685
Bro you do not even have any cool stories to share at all... I have tons... which is why I write.

How about you bro? Where are your books?

>>20075702
> Bro you do not even have any cool stories to share at all
More assumptions based on what, a dislike of the pub? Meanwhile you’re doing everything you possibly can to convince a stranger on the internet that your life is cool and interesting, and that you’re a great writer because of it. Sorry dude, but your attitude reeks of desperation. No one as allegedly “cool” as you would be this needy or pathetic.

>>20075476
Given that this thread is SHIT as always, I'll try to salvage it with a more interesting question: is a good writer also supposed to be a good oral storyteller? Is there some kind of relationship between the two? Obviously a writer by trade knows his way with words, but oral storytelling is more similar to acting, isn't it? Are readings of books by the author also the best?

>>20075774
most authors honestly sound stupid or autistic when they talk. this is why there are no good literary podcasts. and far from everyone are good at reading aloud

>>20075796
>most authors honestly sound stupid or autistic when they talk
Do you have examples? I've listened to interviews here and there, but in every case they did not involve storytelling (or at least, not any further than the basic tidbits such as what you'd come across in an interview), neither improvisational nor planned. I have listened to a couple authors' reading of their own books, I think it was Palahniuk and Gibson and a few others. Generally speaking, I see that authors are at ease with conversation but you wouldn't guess their trade by their speech alone. Is writing really something that happens entirely within a studio environment? If this is confusing, I'm wondering how writers compare to say, painters, who depending on their training become capable of improvising things off the top of their head, to a degree at least, or make a quick sketch of something from life without the comforts of their studio environment with all their gizmos and secrets.

>>20075753
Bro tell one cool story?

>>20075774
Industrial reproduction/the invention of the printing press greatly weakened the link between oral and written storytelling, imo. Authors could just write to a huge potential audience without any expectations to tell their story out loud. So it should come as no surprise that there isn’t much in the way of an oral tradition anymore. That said, I don’t doubt that most authors will read their work out loud to themselves loud to make sure their writing is actually sonorous and pleasing to the ear.

>>20075854
>Industrial reproduction/the invention of the printing press greatly weakened the link between oral and written storytelling, imo
That's a really good point.
Is oral storytelling even somewhat preserved somewhere? Is there some relevant source of knowledge about it, or was everything lost as it translated over to other trades?

>>20075476
I haven't associated with people in real life for years, so I wouldn't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Isak Dinesen writes in Out of Africa how two friends used to visit her on her coffee farm and after dinner they would all go and sit down and one of them would give her the first line of a story ("In London, just before the first world war, there lived an old Chinese man whom no-one ever heard say anything —") and she would pick up mid-sentence and just take over and tell an awesome story.

That's a great skill. You need command of language and a vast store of anecdotes, story ideas, fragments, jokes, etc which you can adapt and rework. It's like a musician who knows lots of songs and chord progressions improvising on a given theme.

One thing it needs is practice. The threads we have on lit where people give titles and other people make up story ideas/plots to fit them are always some of the best threads. I keep meaning to start a thread like that but where you give a first line, instead of a title. Would be interesting to see what people did with them.

I think it's more about a lack of interest from others. I'm too lazy to give a theory as to *why* this is happening, but it's relatively clear to me that people don't react as positively to sharing stories as they used to. Might be culture, might be technology, probably has elements of both.

>>20075872
Rosalind Thomas has done some interesting work on the oral tradition in Ancient Greece, so it’s worth looking in to her. But it’s such a broad concept that it is difficult to find books on the subject that aren’t focused on a specific historical epoch or location.

As for whether any kind of oral tradition remains today, I think not. You obviously have things like slam poetry, spoken word and book readings, but I wouldn’t consider it a “tradition” in any sense of the word.

>>20075476
It has become a lost art.
Pro tip: learn to tell good stories and people will start to like you more. They still love hearing good stories.

>>20075912
>Rosalind Thomas has done some interesting work on the oral tradition in Ancient Greece
Nice. This kind of post is why I still come here anon, very nice.

Stories have been reduced to stale recycled tropes and clichés because that’s what fucking sells.
I miss experimental lit.

>>20075932
>that’s what fucking sells.
I don't know which came first, people being stupid animals who want the worst possible stories, or being constantly exposed to terrible stories turning people into animals who are not receptive to anything better.
at least some time ago there were the "elites" who were a bit more open-minded, now the elites are basically just a mouthpiece for the cattle, echoing what they want to hear. It's just terrible.

>>20075902
Before television, people had to make their own entertainment. Either actually telling stories, or going out and playing games, or playing or singing their own music, or whatever. Even reading is more active than watching TV because you have to imagine the events.

Television comes along and people ingest entertainment completely passively. When you don't exercise a muscle, it wastes away.

Then the internet comes along. In theory, it ought not to be as damaging as TV, because it's interactive, but I think most normies use it very passively. They certainly don't have to exercise their storytelling powers on it the way they did before TV.

>>20075961
>I think most normies use it very passively.
infinite scrolling, baby

>>20075694
I miss saying niggerfaggot on Xbox and WoW.

>>20075603
You're likely too attached to your self-image for an honest response, but I'd really like to hear your answer: why are people attracted to ugliness like the decor in that photo?

It's one thing to cultivate a vibe around rusted metal and neon lighting, but another to have a slapdash collection of knick-knacks, textures, and scribbles everywhere. That ugly smiley face evokes nothing in me except disgust, and I think it's because I cannot imagine any positive emotion being conveyed through it. It would be childlike if not for the visual context; as a result, it seems almost inhuman (though not in any transcendental sense).

>>20075598
>No, the pub exists so the common dreck can piss away their hard-earned wages on poison

>"Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself."

>>20076841
He was a good friend

>>20075476
I’m always amazed at people from a century or so ago, and how flippin fast they talk. They’re like little birds, trilling away at mach speed. We sound like ogres in comparison.

>>20076017
It's hipsters. They're rich and oversocialized, but they aren't smart enough to be real artists.

>>20075476
Nothing new under the sun, nothing in humanity progresses besides technology

Being raised on the internet without a lot of family makes this hard.

>>20075476
It started IMO around 2011. Especially around the rise of social media and smart phones. Along with the monetization of the interwebs along with the politicization of people over the past ten years. I think its all connected.

>>20075853
How about you tell us a cool story? But it cant involve drugs or alcohol, and preferably isnt centered around sex.

>>20075546
>You are.... le socially awkward!!!

Some of my older family members are really good at spinning funny yarns and telling tall tales. It really is an artform, and I think it's something you get better at as you get older. I have a lot of crazy stories but I'm not as great at telling them as the people I know who've had a lifetime of practice.

I think we're less likely to get good practice these days. If you went to an airport bar or got on a plane a decade ago, for example, randos would strike up a conversation with you to kill a few hours. With the smartphone, that norm is mostly disappearing. This is an observable truth, and everybody who thinks people itt are "romanticizing the past" is just a projecting zoomer.

>>20077777
Checked. Also

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3250/3250-h/3250-h.htm

>>20075476
I actually have, OP, I'm glad you say it. I watched some lectures on youtube and it really made me miss having someone that can just talk intelligently about a thing, it feels like forever since I've heard a good story or had an actual discussion.

>>20077213
I would say it started earlier, just at slower pace. Storytelling used to be a way to entertain the family/community or even get news, but with the advance of other forms of entertainment, especially television, there was no need to hone the skill of telling stories when someone else was doing it for you.

>>20075476
That's pretty much me. Largely I listen to other people. But isn't telling stories about their lives even more self absorbed? What do you tell tales about?

>>20077777
Quints of truth

>>20075476
Unironically hang around Brits and Irish. They still love to tell a good yarn.

>>20075476
>>20078818
I can discuss things in great detail through text and write decent stories, but it all falls apart when it comes to face-to-face communication. I think it has more to do with practice speaking to people in person than anything else

>>20077777
This is why my friends and I don't rag on each other for retelling the same stories sometimes. Its in the retelling that you refine, edit, learn which details to exaggerate. It's all in the retelling.

As an old fella I'm friendly with once told me when I asked him how he had so many good stories: it's all bullshit, but it's entertaining bullshit.

>>20075501
I literally just make up stories. 90% of my personality is made up, and I'm aware enough not to make it too interesting or crazy as to arouse suspicion. Not only that, I only make up stories using subjects I'm already well versed in so I can bullshit the inevitable questions
It's funny, people act like I'm supposed to feel bad about it, or it's the symptom of some mental illness. I don't really care. In fact, I enjoy it. Making up believable stories is fun. Lying it the ultimate cheat code that seems stupid not to employ. None of my lies are devious or too hurt others so there's no mortality there
Sometimes when I travel I also make make up whole backstories and names about myself, use it for a few days, and then discard it when I go to the next city

>>20078958
I love to lie too. So long as you don't lie about anything serious then what's the harm? It adds colour to life. Also I like leaving people guessing, it's not a bad thing if people can't always tell what's true and what's false. It can often be used to your advantage.

>>20075476
I disagree. Might be a cultural thing, but my friends are great at telling stories. They are usually anecdotes, but they do so with a great vivacity that keeps their audience engaged. I envy their abilities, honestly; I can barely keep up with them in that regard.

>>20075603
None of those people will be around in 5 years.

>>20075476
isnt this true about all of history though? Why else would story teller have been a venerated art if every one (even most ) people were good at it? I do think that the dominance of visual media has contributed to a decline in good verbal story telling, but its not like every normie in the middle ages could spin a yarn worth a damn. its a skill that requires one to put effort in the craft and thus will always be niche.

>>20075501
but you could make shit up to make things interesting right? thats like %80 of story telling. make it just believable enough and then hit em with some good creative bullshit.

>>20075774
a lot of writers turn down things like readings and interviews because they chose writing to avoid having to do public speaking to get their thoughts out. many are bad at it, but I think even more just dont want to do it.

>>20075476
it is not a lost art among normalfags. they tell stories all the fucking time. their stories are mundane and their events are mundane, however. they also won't tell stories to outsiders, like you

>>20075694
>it's another zoomer who thinks he's enlightened for saying that pre-smartphone society was le evil rednecks killing people like in movies

>>20075476
Poetry has become more prosaic in quality and the narrative genre has become lyrical in it's focus on the subjectivity of the emotive function.

>>20079151
You should suck their penises in exchange of some tips on how to tell better stories. Hey, that alone would make a funny story, don't you think?

Interesting observation but it seems more informed by what you see on the internet than actual real life. Every time I talk to my parents I'm hit with like an hour and a half barrage of stories. I live with 7 other people and we very regularly gather around and talk about our days, storytelling and all. Yes, social media is vapid in the ways you've described, but I've never seen that leak into the real world, personally.

>>20079228
Clearly. Likewise when it comes to criticism from readers or listeners with little or no experience of attending to good storytellers--or for that matter long-form instrumental music with some resemblance to narrative, or description of a place--composition in the most general sense of the term. So if everyone deems themselves an artist, in wit or blog-length post or whatever, then no one becomes an artist, and everyone becomes a heckler.
>>20079254
This reminds me of some interviews Galbraith gave. He was most capable at planning via the page, and a disaster at winging it in person.

>>20079858
>This reminds me of some interviews Galbraith gave. He was most capable at planning via the page, and a disaster at winging it in person.
Yeah I think a lot of people need more time to formulate responses that regular conversation or performance allows when its off the cuff. Its like when you are watching or reading something and the main characer has all the cool things to say in response to anything thrown at them and you think "wow I wish i could be that eloquent" and the. you remember that it was all planned out for them and those people would be fucked in a real dialogue. I also think attachment to the material makes one feel a like they need to put more effort in and the more in your head you are in a performance or conversation the more likely you are to stumble or forget something or miss something.

>>20079530
>it's another spring break poster who doesn't even know what greentext is for

>me smart normies dumb

>>20075902
Probably web browsers and the internet.

>>20075476
talk to more people you pretentious faggot

>>20080418
McDonald's hot chip, charge they phone, twerk, etc.

>>20075568
I'm too scared to go there alone

>>20075623
>crack den
Way too clean to be a crack den

>>20075561
>shitkickers
you couldn't tell a story to save your life, jason. as is evident from your non-consensual homelessness.

>>20075476
I exaggerate things I've heard throughout my life. I once knew a lady with an autistic son. He chased her down with a shotgun while his balls had been infected and were leaking puss. Her daughter-in-law tried to kill herself by hanging but the fan broke. ANother time she jumped off a building and crashed on top of a dumpster and stayed there until they found her. I take such weird bits and pieces and I add them to my life so that I can have something to say. Thus, the shotgun story becomes that I and my mother were visiting her and having tea, when he busted out of the basement with a shotgun. Little lies that make me less mundane. I also tell much bigger lies, but that's another story. Come to think of it, I lie and weave stories in some form or another pretty much every single day.

But yeah, I have noticed this phenomenon. Nobody talks anymore. Whenever I go out with a normalfag, they run out of things to talk about 20 minutes in. If I stop talking and going on tangents there's a dead silence. I hear tables all around me and they always talk about the same mundane bullshit of everyday life. Nobody says anything of any significance. Nobody is a storyteller anymore. And that's just sad.

>>20079238
No because creativity is gone and any story worth telling is unbelievable. Daily life is grind excel sheets, drive home, watch Netflix. That’s all. Anything else I unbelievable.

so I've been reading a series of books and in them there are a number of short stories presented as stories told by characters
and that makes me think about how I could never tell a story just off the cuff. I wouldn't be able to remember it well enough, even if I did learn some
is there a way to get better at that?

>>20075546
>doesn't relate an example from their own (thrilling and rich) social life
>NO, IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE AWKWARD, OK?!?

>>20081549
>If I stop talking and going on tangents there's a dead silence
Disliking silence is a major normie trait

>>20081669
Oh, fuck off you contrarian LARPer. What am I supposed to do at a coffee shop with some other faggot if we're not talking? Stare at each other's eyes?

>>20081114
that's what the brew is there for

>>20078958
>>20078966
>Shitty boring life
>Copes with delusion
>Copes with knowledge of self delusion with mental gymnastics

>>20075694
>society before smartphones and widespread internet use was this amazing place

Society wasn't but the internet was. At least back then I could go to the internet to escape reality. Now both are shit.

>>20075476
Social media has turned everyone into narcissists.

>>20076011
Unironically same. My life was still shit back then, but I got all the stress out of my system by fucking around with randos on the ps3

I embellish everything when I talk, including making statistics more extreme and shoehorning datapoints into crazy narratives. When I'm conscious of spinning one of my stories the phrase "tall tales" floats through my head and I smirk inwardly. Call it a more "inclusive" conception of truth, but it's all justified in the war against The Eternal Anglo, positivism, and Auguste Comte

>>20075950
The stories turned people into animals. Characters were supposed to inspire you with their excess. Nowadays they are made "relatable" by casting off the excess. Sincerity is undermined by the voice of bathos. True believers are mocked and humiliated. This is an era of crab stories for crab people. They make a mockery of their superiors because they respond to superiority with jealous destructive malice, not competitive drive.

>>20078958
The problem with lying is that it's a sin

>>20082711
The other problem is it erodes trust which is then frivolously wasted when it could be utilized in a much more meaningful capacity.

It still exists among some older people. Joey Diaz is an example of this. He says he used to do acid as a teen and he was addicted to coke for decades so I’m not sure how much of his stories actually happened but they’re pretty funny.

>>20075546
You're just severely less interesting than you estimate yourself to be. Don't you ever think how much it sucks for ACTUAL interesting people to be drowned out by the sea of inane morons on social media? It blows, and society is seeing the effects of marginalizing the "inspirational class" of society.

>>20082774
Society used to consists of "Doers", but now it consists of "Viewers". That's also why everyone is so shite, and no one strives to do anything of worth any longer.

>>20082723
>Worrying about eroding societal trust
>In 20fucking22

You'd be the guy worrying about his toilet overflowing while on the Titanic.

>>20082789
Back in the days of Medieval and early Modern era , the vast majority of people were uneducated, illiterate peasants or craftsmen who lived at the mercy of richer lords and merchants. Only a few people had enough leisure time to dedicate themselves to pursuits like studying history in Latin and composing poetry. The rest of them merely enjoyed folk songs sung at their local pub, Sunday lectures given at their parish church, and passions plays performed once a year in town.
Then came the rise of mass education together with the exponential rise in literacy rates, which led to the proliferation of tons of literature for the masses, and the spread of printed stories that were little but very well disguised amalgamations of older stories.
The vast majority of people in history always relied on storytellers, performers, and musicians rather than on themselves to be entertained.

>>20075476
I'm a Hikikomori anyway so ....