/lit/ - Literature

>>20065825
jbp in 2022 is like spandex hair metal in 1994

>>20065825
Postmodern Neomarxism is a bad name but JPete is close enough here, a lot of the people in that list also heavily draw on Marxism. Not sure why people get so upset about this classifier.

>>20065837
Find another site to sully, you evil coward.

Peterson is a cheap version of better lecturers, theres tons with a referential knowledge of the classics and what they mean archetypaly.

He does know Foucault was a staunch critic of Marxism right? Its fair to say a lot of them were influenced by Marx but to actually call them marxist is a bit of a stretch

>>20065856
oo tellem why u mad

>>20065825
This implies he has been considering this question since Zizek challenged him to name examples of "postmodern neomarxists" and this is the list he comes up with. A bunch of has-beens, dead people, and avowed liberals. There is nothing "postmodern" about Robin DiAngelo's particular form of identity games, in fact, her entire game rests upon being able to reliably differentiate between stable identities and ideologies. It is reactionary liberalism at its highest apex. Judith Butler is the only living person on this list with any real pull and even then, her star is fading.

>>20065864
Jesus was critical of judaism but he was still a jew

Why did he think this was a profound statement? It suggests to me that he doesn't understand subjectivity and thinks everyone agrees that "Postmodern NeoMarxists" are le bad and all that needs to be done to turn people on them is give them names.

It's like those kids who think "democratic socialism is still socialism" is a knock-out argument.

>>20065854
Because people who believe him are the type to criticize marxism without even knowing what it is. Its literally just a word they use as a boogeyman for things they dont like

>>20065825
Isnt bell hooks the negro lady that just died? Ballsy move calling her out

How many of those are pedophiles and assorted degenerates lmao

>>20065825
>Peterson’s shower thoughts years after Zizek asked him “where are all these postmodern neomarxists? I don’t see them”
This nigga really holds a grudge lmao

>>20065854
Anyone who is anything close to an intellectual has been influenced by Marx at some level. Jordan Peterson knows this and uses it because he is legitimately just opposed to free thinking.

>>20065879
Then should we call Christianity Neo-Judaism? Why not just call every philosophy school Platonism, its the same kind of logic

>>20065825
Why does he have such an obsession with Foucault? Is he jealous that Foucault has more citation than he does?

>>20065890
>where are the marxists?
>40%of sociologists claim to be marxist
>uhhh well name some!
zizek looked retarded

First mention of JP on /lit/, always gets me a laugh

>>20065876
>This implies he has been considering this question since Zizek challenged him to name examples of "postmodern neomarxists" and this is the list he comes up with
I believe this, since he is absolutely the kind of faggot to let these moments of weakness burn inside of him for years until he randomly thinks up (what he believes is) a good response.

>>20065890
Yep that what I was awkwardly trying to express here >>20065911 , you said it better.

>>20065905
How many of them are postmodernists though? There is a slight over lap but the two thoughts are basically opposed to each other. How can you be critical of grand narratives but also support one

>>20065895
>Then should we call Christianity Neo-Judaism?
Yes, we should.
>Why not just call every philosophy school Platonism, its the same kind of logic
It's not, most philosophy schools were not made up of Platonists.

>>20065906
/lit/ was a much better place when it had actual people with lives posting here and wasn’t all basement-dwelling /pol/tards

>>20065893
There's "influenced by Marxism" in the sense of building upon it in the broader left-wing tradition like most people in this Tweet vs. "influenced by Marxism" in the sense of being an advocate of helicopter rides. The former advocate numerous stupid/harmful ideas while holding academic positions.

>>20065882
>Because people who believe him are the type to criticize marxism without even knowing what it is.
Sure they do, it was the state ideology of the USSR which was an utter shithole, and that has probably permanently handicapped Russia. You don't need to read hundreds of tomes of "economic science" with a faulty premise (LTV) to see what practical Marxism entails.

>>20065919
But pretty much all of them were inspired by Plato in some way

>>20065905
You're missing the point, of course there are marxists. The phrase is "Postmodern NeoMarxists", which is basically his own invention. Marxists would tell you that this is a contradiction of terms, as Marxism is a modernist ideology. I'm not saying I agree with them but it is definitely his own 'le bad' label and not useful term that other people accept.

>>20065825
>NeoMarxists
>not a single Frankfurtist

>>20065923
Why would a failed state debunk the entire philosophy? Its not like there is a single way to practice Marxism

He says "PostModern NeoMarxists" because he's just too afraid to say kikes

>>20065919
>>Then should we call Christianity Neo-Judaism?
>Yes, we should.
this

>>20065934
Because its failed every single time

>talking about postmodernism past 1990

>>20065949
So we should disregard every philosophy/thought in history because they have all "failed" at some point? I dont get your reasoning.

>>20065934
>Why would a failed state debunk the entire philosophy? Its not like there is a single way to practice Marxism
It's like that everywhere though, the problems Russia had were basically generic for a Communist state. More importantly, the core premise of Marxism, as in, the labor theory of value, is trivially wrong.

>>20065949
Because the US isn't a failed state

>>20065949
works pretty well in china :)

Reminder that Jordan Peterson claims a single glass of apple cider prevented him from sleeping for 25 days (the recorded world record is 11, after that you would quickly die). This is either an absurd lie and he is thus an untrustworthy liar, or he is mistaken and actually did sleep but can't put the facts together and you shouldn't listen to him because he is a retard, or he is an extreme outlier in neurology and none of his personal advice has anything to do with the average person's situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylyptoT0QaQ

lmao

>>20065932
>contradiction of terms
And? Retards in the "social sciences" are perfectly capable of holding contradictory ideas, or just being disingenuous snakes that want their cake and eat it as well
>this position is illogical therefore no one holds it as true
What sort of argument is that?

>>20065944
>Marxism is scientific
>NOOOOO YOU'RE NOT A REAL MARXIST! YOU'RE A REVISIONIST
>NO THAT ISN'T REAL COMMUNISM!
>NOOOO THAT WAS ALL GORBY'S FAULT!
>NOOOO THAT WAS ALL KHRUSHCHEV'S REVISIONISM!
>NOOOO THAT WAS CIA!
Marxists have only done one thing, and one thing very well for the last 200 years, vindicate fascism

>>20065987
Who are you quoting dude

>>20065980
lol

>>20065825
All the profs I had who didn't like Foucault were pretty based compared to the ones who liked him.

>>20065931
You could call Aristotle a Platonist even though in many ways he opposed it, but not Marx for example.

>>20065949
>When capitalism fails so you once again have to lose your mind dealing with a wave of leftist subversion and insurrection but it doesn't matter because it wasn't real capitalism

>>20065825
Why is Naomi Klein on there LOL

>>20065985
I get that but it's still not a real movement, these are just leftists who vaguely fit with his bastardized concept of postmodernism. They aren't "Postmodern NeoMarxists".

>>20065976
>>20065980
Taiwan is a success story, not China. That's why Taiwan has universal healthcare,why workers there have the right to strike, why they have a higher life expectancy and have a higher GDP per capita. Cope more, chink.

>>20066002
She's a Postmodern NeoMarxist

>>20065987
You guys are so simpleminded. You're allowed to be against more than one thing, you know. You don't have to call something "Marxism" to be against it.

>>20065958
>We should continue to do the same thing with the same failure rate over and over again

>>20066019
Fuck off, marxist scum

>>20065825
I am a phd of analytic-continental philosophy and I have never heard any of these names.

>>20065949
>>20066021
Do you retards realize that basically every political system failed multiple times before it got going? Democracy died over 2000 years ago, but it came back and now it rules the world.

>>20066019
Keep telling yourself that, shabbos goy.

>>20066023
Next time just say "fuck you, I hate you now", it sounds more impressive.

>>20066030
Do retards like you not realize socialism never works and never will work? Its like you don't understand human nature and genetics. You're not an intelligent person because you took an undergraduate sociology course that made you woke. Your ideas, your beliefs, are complete failures and will never be mainstream in your home country. Because people know people are nothing but retards.

>>20066037
marxist cope

>>20066030
Democracy 2000 years ago has nothing in common with democracy today, pea brain.

>>20065999
>I'm too lazy to fill out a resume and want someone to pay my bills
>CAPITALISM IS EXPLOITING MEEEE NOOOOO!

>>20066030
Capitalism is why you were able to post that from your iphone. You really have no room to talk.

>>20066048
nice copypasta but it needs more spice

>>20066067
>capitalism is the reason you can talk, so you can't talk
pants-on-head retarded statement

>>20066048
>>20066055
>>20066049
>>20066060
>>20066067
You guys truly get triggered by this on a level I see almost nowhere else. I can smell your tears through my monitor.

>>20065825
I'd like to see Peterson do a full youtube series take down of the History of Sexuality

>>20066083
Thanks for confirming marxists are retards

>>20065825
>postmodern
>neo-marxist
This guy seriously has no fucking clue what he's talking about.

>>20065882
There’s people who call themselves Marxist without reading him

>>20066091
>me being thoroughly annihilated by this comeback

>>20066083
Marxists have only made me more right-wing. I'm even more eager to make unionization harder, to block universal healthcare, and to privatize the welfare state. And you do realize you've done this to an entire generation of people? You've only made people hate you more.

>>20066067
off-shoring domestic production in the 1970s is why you can shitpost in korean basketweaving forums on technology created with the power of suicide nets

>>20066122
Thanks for confirming marxists are retards

>>20066127
> And you do realize you've done this to an entire generation of people?
Extreme wishful thinking. Even people who are pissed off about what has happened in the past few years don't associate it with """Marxism""", just general democratic party cringe. Trump ran on some pretty lefty economic policies and republicans ate it right up.
>and to privatize the welfare state
Also, what does this even mean? I'm really starting to think this whole thread is a satire

>>20065905
Found Peterson

>>20065906
I recall other anons mentioning he would wear a Portuguese cape all the time which was always followed by a 20 minute winded lore explanation of it's origin like it's a 2004 comic con dork.

Now he's gets indian clickbait vids made every hour on the dot directly interjected into anything "self-improvement".

>>20065905
>40%of sociologists claim to be marxist
What this means is that they use Marxian ideas as a theoretical vocabulary and apparatus in their work. They pick and choose what they find useful from the Marxian tradition.
It's that they're "Marx inspired", not that they're actual Marxists who are working to build socialism.
In social science departments, saying that you're Marxist is just a form of virtue signalling. It's like being "culturally Christian" in third-positionalist circles.

>>20065905
>40%of sociologists claim to be marxist
>uhhh well name some!
It's only a dumb response if you actually can name some.

>>20065837
It was cool in 1984, in 1994, and it's cool now.
I WANNA ROCK

>>20065923
>Sure they do, it was the state ideology of the USSR which was an utter shithole, and that has probably permanently handicapped Russia. You don't need to read hundreds of tomes of "economic science" with a faulty premise (LTV) to see what practical Marxism entails.

All that ego and you're completely wrong lmao

>>20066166
>20 minute winded lore explanation of it's origin like it's a 2004 comic con dork.
That's weird but not as weird as you'd think if you hadn't been to college. Lots of professors love to dump their 'backstory' on you.

.

>>20066088
Wait wtf was her boyfriend born in the DDR? Holy based

>>20066240
The guy is wrong though, peterson doesn't take his understanding of postmodernism from wikipedia but rather from a schizo low-effort trash book written by a fellow Canadian grifter who needed a boogeyman to blame his failed philosopher career on. He read that and since then refuses to engage with the primary sources. He hasn't even read marx aside from the manifesto, that should tell you enough.

>>20066025
I refuse to believe you got to the PhD level without at least hearing about Butler, let alone Foucault

> he’s right

> far right

>>20065825
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeNmx3rZHFs

>>20065854
Because marxists like acting they're not marxists just like jews hate it when you call them jews.

>>20066271
This, Publish-Or-Perish makes some real trash.

>>20065905
On one had Peterson wasn't wrong and needed to be more forceful on that point. If he said that he doesn't need to name them because so many have already named themselves, he could have looked okay.
But I think Zizek's reason for asking him to name specific individuals was to see if Peterson had ever actually engaged with any of their work.

>>20065825
HO-ES M(A)D HO-ES M(A)D HO-ES M(A)D HO-ES M(A)D

>>20065879
I wasnt aware that Marxism was an ethnicity.

>>20066287
Where does one start with Bowden?

>>20065905
Of course he looked retarded, but the population is so dumbed down that they can’t even tell. Everyone who is even at all familiar with all this knows exactly what and who Peterson is talking about, but all Slob-bro Zizek had to do was exaggerate the flaw so as to make Peterson sound silly.

>>20066171
I’m not human. I just use a human framework.

>>20066326
Lectures, his novels are too schizo to begin with.

>>20066127
It’s always funny to see how the opponents of leftists are so reactive and their entire identities revolve around leftism. The fact that you base your beliefs around being unlike leftism shows how much power it has over you. Read Nietzsche

>>20066067
kek, why are the anons triple baiting replies? This is great

>>20066380
It is indistinguishable from actual retardation

>>20065825
>Marx-bros.
Uhoh, the Canadian high school sub has a naughty list!

>>20066318
But it's a religion and so is judaism

>>20065825
Imagine how much better the world would be if people knew how to identify what liberalism is and realize that most of our problems are directly produced from liberal political theology instead of this “post-modern neo-Marxist” nonsense. Most of those people are unambiguous liberals.

>>20066386
This is how I cope. Too many levels of irony are just too hard for my autism so I just assume everyone is having a good time falseflagging and trolling.
Capitalism is a parasite economic system by the way.

>>20065944
This
>>20065987
When you catch one that isn’t Marxist, they’re liberals in some progressivist or socdem disguise. They are lying about representing Marxism

Fascism is liberalism in decay.

>>20066405
so is communism, two sides of the same shekel

>>20066413
Liberalism is communism in decay

Capitalism sucks ass

>>20066421
Every derivative trying to break out of capitalism needs to deal with it as it's the dominant economic system and also the strongest ideology. There are socialists states but not one community of millions has ever been communist past the industrial era.

>>20066405
>Capitalism is a parasite economy system
Its really not. You're just retarded and lazy.

>>20066460
>There are socialists states but not one community of millions has ever been communist past the industrial era.
And that's a good thing. The only thing worse than global capitalism would be global communism. And we might get it anyway.

>>20066405
I think /lit/'s inherent intelligence makes a much higher ratio of trolls to sincere retards than on other boards but there are definitely still some sincere retards.

>>20066471
Keep the generic and tired responses going. It's like deja vu for over 80 years
t. dividend, crypto staking, WFH parasite

>>20066481
You'll never be a woman, and you'll never own the means of production.

>>20066500
It's not fun anymore, take care anon.

Reminder that this is the type of people you're arguing with everyday here.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1503276966874595330?t=hk3ptrvTZVhEaUwYqGB-Vg&s=19
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1503287788652871680?t=IkWxxMSQoBBh2KO-CluW7g&s=19

>>20066426
I see you haven’t studied the topic.
Communism is an idealized world without capitalism. In other words, a world without liberals. Not the social liberation aspect of course, that wasn’t the only goal of the revolutionary age. They “freeing” of capital from the crown’s control was what took priority for the succeeding governments. People’s social freedoms came slowly, like a carrot on a string to keep the mules going.

Whenever liberal capitalism teeters on collapse the people get rowdy again and want to cut their rulers heads off. So the nationalist projects that help break up gregarious empires were used to quash the revolutionaries every time. Nowadays we call them fascists or nazis or just some shade of nationalist. The state powers take the driver’s seat while the bourgeois capitalists sit it out for a while. But they’re still in command. Those that want fascism or even monarchism are will tools of the state-capitalist beast.

The socialist project is trying to make good on the revolutionary project of social freedom, including freedom of the economic oppression of capitalism. Marxism has some weird method, but I say it’s madness. So your statement makes zero sense. Liberalism didn’t come out of a failing communism.
The Soviets weren’t practicing communists when the US forced them to their knees and unleashed oligarchy

>>20066449
Damn right

>>20066365
Lmao shut the fuck up leftoid.

>>20066529
/lit/ is mostly Dunning–Kruger midwits thinking they have 150 I.Q. because they use academic jargon here and there; that, or just trolls pretending to be retarded to trigger said snobs.

>>20066529
>all musk haters are trannies or tranny-like communists/anarchists/søycialists
Kek, you can't make this shit up.

>>20065854
>Post-modern neomarxists lying about what they are
Say it isn't so

>>20066318
Does anyone want to tell him?

>>20066603
Greatest con-artist of all time.

>>20066613
made me kek, thanks

>>20066633
>grifting poorfags and plebbitfags
Based. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it by the way.

>>20066561
Why do you fags type out all this stupid shit? You're just dumb kikes.

>>20066727
You're the giving away the game too easily

>>20066529
>gommies are troons
wow... it's like we already knew it, dumbass.

>>20066727
I’m a slav and I’ve been studying this sort of thing. I typed it so you can learn a little something about your world. I know you’re likely going to reject it for now, but keep it in mind and compare it to things you might read later (provided you read at all). Someday you’ll have to accept it. Disagree with them, side with the fascists or something, doesn’t matter. Have a nice day.

>>20066048
>>20065949
The blossom does not refute the bud. Each 'failure' is necessary for the overarching sublation. China seems to be doing well.

>>20066311
This is really Peterson's achilles heel. He has not read any of what he criticizes. I doubt he's really read much honestly, outside his niche speciality of Jungian psychology anyway. He's read Gulag Archipelago and seems to coast off that for every sociohistorical question that could come up, and he read the Communist Manifesto, and only the Communist Manifesto, before going on stage to debate Zizek in front of the world. I doubt he's ever read any Marx beyond that. He's a modern, hyperspecializec academic larping as an old school well rounded academic. You couple this with his inability to think his ideas through beyond the surface gloss and you get the absolute cringe that is JP. Just look at how effortlessly Jim Jefferies btfod him on the gay cake thing. He just sets himself up for these endless series of L's it's exhausting to watch.


And this is coming from someone who generally likes JP. I think he has a lot of great messages when it comes to his speciality, I bet he's a fantastic therapist and has helped tons of people with his books. But as soon as he voices an opinion about something outside of pyschiatry its just utter dogshit.

Marx analysis on capitalism is correct but his solutions are not. Similar how the US's solutions to deal with these commie states were not correct.
>help them economically and they'll turn liberal through the markets!

Someone send him a picture of benzos. Not just to upset him, but to remind him that reputation matters and nobody takes a known hypocrite seriously, even when they're correct.

>>20066183
Which part of that is wrong? The USSR basically was a setback vs. the trajectory Imperial Russia was on regarding industrialization, it was indeed a shithole and the LTV is obviously false.

>>20065837
>>20065856

>>20066870
Wikipedia is funded by the glowies btw.
They’re famous for their pedos.

"postmodern neomarxism" is just an exonym for "western marxism" or "neo-marxism". All these retards in all these threads just say well I don't call myself that therefore the phenomenon that I'm a part of doesn't exist. Big example of celebration parallax: when a rightist talks about this stuff it's an insane conspiracy theory, when leftists or liberals talk about it amongst themselves it's natural, inevitable, normal, justice, Progress, praxis. Besides that, we all know how the notion of a "postmodern neomarxism" is self-contradictory, and yet our thinking classes live that contradiction. Morality is subjective but hierarchy is eternally evil. Metanarratives are all false and dangerous but I'm a millenarian and Whig historicist. I'm a historical materialist but I assign sovereign power to a social practices and institutions. We need to hear more voices but we need to give more power to Anglo-Americans. All truth claims are expressions of power seeking behavior but we need to listen to the oppressed. Cultural Marxism/Postmodernneomarxism is just Marxist iconoclasm adjoined to liberal democratic political goals. Sounds absurd but it's the world we live in

>jordy petey in 2022
stuck culture you're livin in it

>>20066778
My dude, you don't need to read much more than the manifesto to get a good idea of what communism is about. Nor do you need to read any more than the first volume of Das Kapital to get a good idea of communism from a technical perspective.

>Communism = rationally constructed centralized system
>Capitalism = an organic extension of christian ideals

One is a process of natural and sexual selection and the other is one autistic turbo peasant crying about his personal injustices in the form of political ramblings.

>>20066911
didn't read

>>20066945
>>Capitalism = an organic extension of christian ideals

>>20067018
I always found this sort of reasoning weird, since the human condition for 99% of human existence has been grinding subsistence poverty that was only broken 200 years ago with the industrial revolution and even then only in the developed world.

>>20067018
Where did capitalism come from, do tell, faggot

Also sage

>>20067053
youre trying to hard, the bait isn't passable

>>20065825
Why did Peterson suddenly transition from psychiatrist who talked about jungian shit to conservative pundit? It doesn't even sound natural. Was it some backroom deal involving his addiction?

>>20065949
go back to r/thedonald, dumbfuck

>>20066753
Keep your shithole ideology in your shithole country.

>>20066814
What are marx's solutions?

>>20066945
>>Capitalism = an organic extension of christian ideals

>>20067154
PNW? Lol, okay.
But do us all a favor and either read up on the issues involved or shut the fuck up

>>20065825
that's the guy that came out of a debate with Zizek thinking he wasn't a marxist.

>>20066413
>they’re liberals in some progressivist or socdem disguise

so 90% of all leftists? then you guys cry about people misconstruing liberals with leftists yet most leftists do nothing to challenge the foundations of liberalism

>>20067338
>so 90% of all leftists?
Trudeau isn’t leftwing. Biden isn’t leftwing. Macron isn’t leftwing. AOC isn’t either. I don’t know about about the percentage, but liberals are hiding behind this lefty mask. They may believe it, and they certainly argue a little with their best friends the rightwing liberal “conservatives”, but when the leftists take to the streets and threaten their power or capital they shit them down by any means necessary. I realize there’s a ton of deception going on, but this mask has slipped several times in recent months and years.

>>20067338
Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine is in my to-read list. Why is she listed with those others? And is this association apparent in her writing?

>>20065825
being influenced by marx doesn't make someone a "neomarxist", honestly butler is about as far from marxist feminism as you can get within the continental tradition

>>20067355
It's not even hard to understand. Elected liberals might say they have good intentions, but they all fall in line with increasing foreign terrorism in military budgets and domestic military in police budgets. Crime, education, drug abuse, homeless, poverty, etc. can all be fixed just with a fraction of these amounts yet none of them fight for it.

>>20067355
>>20067379
> Elected liberals might say they have good intentions, but they all fall in line with increasing foreign terrorism in military budgets and domestic military in police budgets. Crime, education, drug abuse, homeless, poverty, etc. can all be fixed just with a fraction of these amounts yet none of them fight for it.
exhibit Z:
https://twitter.com/keatenmansfield/status/1492974218027409408?s=21

>>20067379
Capitalism is corruption. If we don’t peel this leech off of humanity, it will suck us dry every time.

>>20065825
is he still coping? pathetic

>>20067391
To add on this, liberals co-op social movements given that they seldom hurt their bottom line and make it allergic to the very people calling out systematic failure. They have a decent, intuitive diagnosis of the problem but somehow choose to side with the conservatives or libertarians, the former doing christian lip service and the latter wanting communism without suffering through an economic system change.

>>20067051
+7% of all people who have ever lived are currently alive right now.

>>20066855
completely wrong, read “From Farm to Factory”, the tsarist regime was retarded and backwards and would have reached the 90’s with a GDP significantly lower than the russian federations even after the 90’s rape of the economy

>>20065825
He's just talking about bioleninists.

>>20067674
so something equally made up?

>>20066901
>glowies
It's literally filled with tranny communists.

>>20065825
Naomi Klein is unironically one of the good Jews. She also has nothing to do with anyone else on the list.

>>20067760
>Hilary is a communist

>>20067700
Isn't every concept made up in that case?

>>20067788
sure, but there's a difference between something made up by internet right wingers and sometimes made up by an academic whose job is to understand the world

>>20067700
>>20067795
Explain how it doesn't exist.

This guy uses twitter ? Damn, I'm just going to read Scruton from now on.

Scruton should never have associated with Peterson.