/lit/ - Literature

>>20048103
oh, based "say you are a nigger without saying you are one" challenge doer

>>20048103
You got filtered. Don't sweat it just means you're a fucking retard, and a troll.

>>20048108
>>20048109
I accept your concessions.

Verification NOT required.

>>20048103
I just bought these and the Aeneid from a thrift store. Do I read it by order of Iliad, Odyssey, Aenied?

>>20048184
Yes

>>20048103
>reads the two greatest pieces of GREEK literature in ENGLISH and calls them SHIT
You have the mind of a nigger.

>>20048103
I read them when I was like 14 and it was the most fun I ever had in English class. maybe you're just dumb

>>20048184
No

>>20048184
maybe

>>20048184
These >>20048192 >>20048298 >>20048318

>>20048103
Youre baiting, but so many people think this and its almost always because they don't get the book. There's a reason these texts have lasted for so long and I think its because just about anybody can find something in it that really strikes a chord with them. Take the Illiad especially for example, for me it was the presence of fatherhood and how it was handled. For my wife (male), s(he) was touched by how the soldiers on both sides held to their convictions and faith.

>>20048184
I don't know

>>20048103
Filtered by Homer.

>>20048184
Can you repeat the question?

> RAGE - Goddess - sing the rage of Peleus' son Achilless, murderous, doomed
peak comfy

>>20048103
i'm so jealous of english speakers for they have beautiful versions of these works. and what do i get to choose from? cheap, 5 Buck leather bound versions that look like shit or a cover plastered in cartoony garbage

So what's the best translation for Aeneid?
Is Fitzgerald's really subpar compared to Lombardo or Mandelbaum? I really want to try his tl but then again I might just read Dryden's instead.

>tfw translation autism hinders me from reading most of the western canon
haha....

>>20048591
Learn the languages if you want to read them, otherwise you have to deal with translations. Translations are a useful starting point, but never a place to stop.

>>20048604
i read for pleasure so i won't learn a language just to enjoy a book but in my country there's like a dozen different translations for each major classic and no way to find a consensus online for which is actually worth reading

>>20048103
I read it 4 times and liked it every time. And I consider myself below even the pseud level. First time I disliked the Catalogue of Ships, later I understood that it's the most kino part. Though I still get tired from all the repetition.

Diomedes is overrated and a tryhard

>>20048612
If applicable always go for the academic standard translation or at least the previous academic standard.

>>20048641
>Diomedes is overrated and a tryhard

>Between 1922 and 2015 there were 1,041 births of Diomedes in the countries below, which represents an average of 11 births of children bearing the first name Diomedes per year on average throughout this period. On the last available year for each country, we count 0 birth.

>Between 1880 and 2019 there were 160,872 births of Hector in the countries below, which represents an average of 1,157 births of children bearing the first name Hector per year on average throughout this period. On the last available year for each country, we count 2,840 births.

>>20048652
t.

>>20048663
I remember him fondly as butt monkey man. B-E-A-utiful

>>20048652
>Highest kill count
>Favored by Athena
>The only character who managed to hurt deities like Mars and Aphrodite
>Overall winner of Patroclus' funeral game
>Steals Cressida from Troilus in Shakespeare Tragedy
His aristeia wankery is borderline gary stu-ish not in funny way.

>>20048677
>borderline gary stu-ish
shut the fuck up you fanfic reading faggot

>>20048690
Diomedes is a fanfic character you illiterate mongrel

>>20048652
Hector is a much more standard name

>>20048695
I could only imagine what books you retard would rather have as the foundation of western literature

>>20048704
Even western literature can't escape from its cringe characters like Diomedes fag. Stay seething.

>>20048103
What's the best translation /lit/?
I've read that Pope's is the most like Homer's verse, but he takes a lot of liberties and he had a ghost writer for the The Odyssey.
Some say that Fagles has the most approachable verse. Butler's is not bad either.
If I'm looking for something in prose, is Reiu's version good? I was looking at maybe getting the Penguin Clothbound Classics hardcovers and they use that translation.

>>20048641
t. hateful Ares

>>20049102
Fagles is very approachable and easy to read

>>20048184
Yes except don't read the Aeneid and throw it out.

How come no one talks about the Posthomerica?

>>20048184
Read one chapter of each in succession. Including Dante.

>>20049313
Because most people in the post-Classical world learned of the Trojan War (besides Homer and paraphrases of him of course) through Ovid and Vergil.

>>20049657
I had heard it does draw upon some of the lost works of the epic cycle though as well as Greek plays.

bump

>>20048184
yes then add ovid, the bible, dante, shakespeare, milton, and optionally (if you're a burger) melville

>>20049313
it's fan fiction

>>20048566
my deep extensive JSTOR research told me that it's Dryden for Aeneid. Lattimore Iliad, Fitzgerald Odyssey (hard mode: Pope for both). Everyone says Chapman is good but finding good matching editions with footnotes is too hard, and Pope is frankly too expensive for a good set

>>20049670
>I had heard it does draw upon some of the lost works of the epic cycle though as well as Greek plays.
Lattimore's intro to Iliad turned me off from any posthomerica. He makes a compelling argument that just about everyone distorts Homer for their own political gain
>The people of the epic become, in the fifth century, counters for political propaganda and the exploitations of intra-Hellenic hatreds. To Pindar, Aias is an Aiginetan; to Sophocles, an Athenian. Menelaos, the courtly and considerate grand seigneur (and millionaire!) of Iliad and Odyssey, becomes the vulgar villain of Sophocles' Aias, the personification of Spartan machtpolitik in Euripides' Andromache. Euripides can use Kalchas to vent his spleen against soothsayers, Talthybios to convey an almost equally potent aversion for heralds.
>A clear case is the rivalry of Odysseus and Aias. In the Iliad, it does not exist [...] But in the Odyssey, we find allusion to the story of how the armour of dead Achilleus was awarded to Odysseus, rather than Aias, and how Aias died as a result. How and why [...] Homer does not tell us, even in the Odyssey; but according to the Cycle, he went mad and killed himself. [...] Odysseus, his valour and devotion forgotten, has stood ever since for t he crafty and treacherous politician. [1]
>[1] Sophocles' interpretation in his Aias is ultimately favourable to Odysseus, but even here he is no warrior. To Euripides (Iphigeneia in Aulis, Trojan Women particularly) Odysseus is responsibel for all the deceptions and most of the brutalities perpetrated by the Achaianas.
>The bare negative fact of the Iliad, that Aias fought so well without divine protection, becomes twisted into a positive story that he arrogantly despised the proffered help of the gods, particularly Athene, the protectress of Diomedes and Odysseus. [3]
>[3] With exactly those faults for which Aias, in the Iliad, so effectively reproaches Achilles.
>At all events, we have the materials for Shakespeare's unbelievably believable caricature in Troilus and Cressida.

>>20048103
>The Iliad
>The
>Odyssey

>>20048103
I was able to stomach reading them by being over the age of thirteen when I read them

>>20048103
The Iliad is the greatest book in the western canon, eat shit.

>>20048184
yes

>>20048566
Pope + Fagles for Iliad. For Odyssey, Pope used assistants for like half the books, so I dunno

>>20048641
>night-raid with odysseus
>out-fights ajax
>brawls with the gods

Diomedes rules, and some of Pope's greatest work is about him.

>>20048704
aMeRiCaN pSyChO

>>20049102
Fagles and Pope. Read one book of Fagles for narrative comprehension, and then the same of Pope for beauty and spirit.

>>20049139
based

Does the Pope's translation insert christcuck sentiments into the text?

>>20048246

>>20048591
I read the illiad in the english translation that happrned to be in my library and looked up the original greek text and meaning for parts that seemed suspect, using this website:
(Greek):
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0133
(You can click on each word to get an english translation)
(English version):
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0134:book=1:card=1
It helps if the book your reading records the line numbers on each page. Think I might learn greek before reading the oddyssey.
>>20048612
>i read for pleasure so i won't learn a language
OH SAY CAN YOU SEE!!

>>20048703
I knew some pea brain would say this but you only regard it as standard because Hector is so popular and you hear it regularly. To the ancient Greeks, Diomedes would have been a perfectly standard name.

>>20052246
I hope this is bait because if it is you're one of the most brilliant trolls I've ever seen.

i refuse to believe they are by the same author the illiad feels much more archaic.