/lit/ - Literature

>>20007447
What the fuck did you just say to me?

This isn't literature.

>>20007447
Do burgers really?

>>20007447
>What's your excuse /lit?
I don't have a heckin wholesome trad Mormon wife to encourage me along the way

>>20007447
He writes for money. It's trash.

Fantasy is for tards

>>20007447
I have no idea how to market, no idea who my audience is, nor even how to begin even brainstorming a marketing strategy.
What's your counter-excuse anon, please go into as much detail as possible.

>>20007516
I would say
>C'mon anon, stop fucking around
but I've read the first mistborn book and know he writes like that.

>>20007671
See for yourself.
https://www.brandonsanderson.com/legion-excerpt/

>>20007675
I’m goin to drown myself

>>20007675
>it’s like that movie split but every personality is a Mary Sue
Yeah that nigga is getting rich. And that’s why you stick to the canon.

>>20007516
jesus ornamental christ.

>>20007660
read more

>>20008420
Think you can do better on the detail bits. In fact I challenge you to do better. And how will that improve my marketing prowess? Which books would you suggest and why? What reading would you avoid and how do you think they would be detrimental to my marketing approach?

>>20008443
you can pick up nonfic on marketing yourself, how to be successful in social media
but honestly I wasn't referring to that
if you haven't found your voice, all the marketing in the world won't save you
the only way to find your voice is to read more and write more.

>>20008449
>if you haven't found your voice,
Finding my voice was never the problem, finding and marketing to the right people who will pay money to read what I write in my own voice is. How would you fix that?

>>20008461
if you have found your voice, you have found your audience.
if you don't have an audience then you haven't yet found your voice. writing is a two way street, not a monologue conceived in a dark room.

>>20008461
Where is your work hosted?

>>20008465
>if you have found your voice, you have found your audience.
Then why do publishers spend millions of dollars and organize massive presales if their writer's magically find their audience? Maybe because your absolutely full of shit? I think it's because your airy fairy statement that fancifully believes that authenticity is the true path to an audience does not function in the real world where people need to at least be aware of the presence of a thing in order to even consider interacting with it.

>>20008473
I don't even know where to host it. Years like a decade ago I wrote on Tumblr. I have a youtube channel where I did video essays. But getting people outside my friendship group to watch it is something I don't understand, I'm not one to 'reply guy' or post links to my work on reddit or in replies to people's tweets. I don't use Discord.

>>20007447
I don't have an already established nerd fanbase

>>20007516
okay, but I want to know more about the hallucination that shoots stuff.

>>20008483
post extract faggot we will tell you who to aim for

>>20008494
>“We had a shooting range installed in the mansion for a purpose, J.C. Use it.”
aaand he lost me. Lame.

>>20008499
My stuff is all over the place, but this is from a piece I always liked:
>I first met him some three years ago, maybe four, he was fifty-one going on eighty - frail, grey in the face, with the lavender and olive bruises on his skin that one expected on a liver-spotted geriatric. He gestured to my blazer with his walking stick - functional now as I’m sure once it was once a foppish decoration - where did I get it? In different to my answer he started to regale me with Kate Moss and Cindy Crawford stories that never seemed to have a point or finale. It was charming, even if he didn’t seem to hold eye contact. He had a curious habit of holding silent every time you'd interject, he’d murmur like he was holding back some criticism which made you feel terribly naive.
>He told me of “that collection” as if I was to know the exact one, as a matter of fact I pieced together that many years before my sister had a magazine with one of those very dresses on the cover - Harpers I think it was, some lithe Russian girl on the cover at the time with a art deco headdress with a tangerine dyed peacock feather, blue and green feathered blazer over a matching mini-dress. I certainly was mesmerized by it.
>“Real life is grey. Concrete, grey. Look, look at that wall over there, what would you call that?” “Steel blue?” I inquired, hoping he’d admire my wit. A disapproving silence. “There’s too much grey in the world. He inflicted his longing for colour in the world, his desire for peachy sunsets and apricot dawns. For brilliant skies encrusted with rubies, emeralds, and Opals. Like the child who seeing the pristine unblemished canvass of the white wall decorates it.

>>20008478
>writer's
didn't need to read the rest. you're not there yet.

>>20008483
So you're unwilling to learn even the most basic modern platforms and you're crying about not having an audience?
If you're this lazy then your writing must suck too.

>>20008525
>didn't need
Didn't read the rest because you're clearly not my market and that proves my point. BOOM!

>>20008522
i was trying to get to sleep. this just about did it. thanks
you should post your work on an insomniac forum, would do them wonders

>>20008478
You're failing to express your ideas concisely. This sentence is horribly overwritten. If you've been writing more than 1-2 years tops then drop it. Not suited.

>>20008530
When did I say I'm crying about not having an audience. I'm saying I can't justify making writing my main medium of expression because I don't know who my audience is or why the fuck I should do it if no one else is interested. Does that make sense? Of course it does but you're probably just looking for reasons to criticize and demoralize because this is 4chin and that's how things are done, right?

>>20008547
you don't have an audience because you're a lazy shit
look at how sloppy your writing is. look at it

>>20008547
Not anon but this fr sounds pathetic
Have you even made a single attempt to reach readers?

>>20008536
My last fart was funnier than you and gave better criticism.
>>20008542
Just answer the damn question: why is marketing needed if 'voice' finds an audience?

>>20008558
ur about as funny as a homeless man and his starving dog

>>20008549
It's hard to be concise when I have to correct your misinterpretations over and over.
>>20008555
Not in writing. In other mediums, like Youtube, yes. There's only so many hours in a day.
>>20008560
And you're setting the bar lower.

>>20008558
if you think writers who get a book deal haven't spent effort already finding their type of audience then I dunno what to tell ya. the concept of it is too stupid for words. I bet you sit around all day scratching your ass and rewatching californication for the tenth time instead of actually writing

>>20008571
if you have a youtube audience (doubtful judging at how obtuse you are) then that's literally the easiest way to get readers. just look at waldun
you dont have a youtube audience though cuz ur boring

>>20008572
Please just answer the question directly: why is marketing necessary if >>20008465
>if you have found your voice, you have found your audience.
Why is all this time and money and effort spent on making readers aware of new books and pieces of writing if your audience and your voice magically find one another?

>>20008579
Are you doing it?

>>20007447
I'm soulless and have nothing of interest to share. People just disengage whenever I decide to just tell them about mu stuff so I barely bother anymore.

>>20008582
wow you are dumb
I'm telling you that's not how it works. Marketing is not a magic bullet. If you don't have a potential audience you can't just buy one. You simply dont get a book deal period.

>>20008584
no need

>>20008590
You're going to insult my intelligence again, but doesn't that undermine the idea that if you've found your voice you've found your audience? Since you still need to market and promote a book to those people? You need to figure out where they are? What key words they use? You still need to define in precise terms the 'audience'?

>>20008600
>You're going to insult my intelligence again
correct

>>20008599
But if it's the easiest way, then wouldn't it be more efficient for you?

>>20008600
find your voice, find your audience
it's that simple
if you had found your voice already you'd know

>>20008603
nah

>>20008607
Then it's not the easiest way? What are you doing then?

>>20008606
Absolutely not. e.g. If you write in English, found your voice, and you're surrounded by Chinese readers.

>>20007447
My ideas aren't popular

>>20008600
>>20008461
>>20008443
Incidentally if any of you self-proclaimed writers could rephrase or workshop these questions. Do it!
I think if any of you guys are telling the truth, there might be a real opportunity for me to learn how to learn better. That means learning how to ask concise and clear questions. The kind of questions people with relevant knowledge can and will answer. It's evident everyone ITT thinks I'm asking something else.
inb4 low effort shitpoasts like
>Wahhh I wanna be famous!
>hurr durr I'm so addicted to jerking off nigger trannies that I can't find a hosting service, please tell me how to make money from my brain farts? Also I don't want to put in any effort
>How can I be Dan Brown in 15 seconds?
Which wouldn't show off any skill on your part.

>>20007516
>he emptied the clip
>he might shoot me
???

>>20007675
>he had the eyes of a killer. Or so he claimed. Perhaps he kept them in his pocket.
Bravo Mr Sanderson

>>20007447
Think of how many people are buying this because they're impressed with the feat itself, not because the books are good. Girls probably want to fuck him over it too. God it makes me so mad.

>>20007516
>>20008921
Almost certainly it's actually a magazine.

>>20009007
Reminder Cormac McCarthy says clip and silencer.

>>20009011
I've never minded the term silencer, because it's not as if there's really anything else it could be referring to, but clip and magazine simply show the writer has done fuck all research.

>>20007447
He will be remembered as the richest writer of all time. I will be remembered as a writer of all time. How do I cope?

>>20008642
Sanderson would not be nearly as popular as he is if it were not for his lectures and ideas pertaining to the writing of fantasy.
It is a good thing to remember that most people who talk about 'worldbuilding' only talk about it. They don't write. It's a kind of overstructured daydreaming for them. They do, however, love to think and talk about what they would write if they were to write.
Most of these people are teenagers who plugged in "how to worldbuild" or "how to create magic" into youtube/google after hearing those terms used in video essays about their favorite video games.

There is an entire cottage industry now for this kind of stuff, but Sanderson, back in the late 2000's and early 2010's was the first person to really put this kind of content out in a structured, linear, easily digestible format.
This led many people to his works, and through this his name proliferated through this kind of low-brow writing advice twitter/tumbler milieu and became synonymous with good world building.

He became a required text for daydreamers.

>>20007516
Bin Laden?

>>20009007
Almost certainly irrelevant as you can't shoot someone with either an empty clip, nor an empty magazine.

>>20007516
>He emptied a clip
Up until then, I was willing to give this faggot the benefit of the doubt

>>20009058
You're a clown. The vast majority of people don't know of his BYU lectures nor viewed them. People love his books because of the shared universe in the Cosmere and how it all fits together.

>>20009407
You know that's a thing right? Also told from the perspective of a man with multiple personalities

>>20009561
>muh multiverse
that reason is even worse.

>>20007516
People are paying 17 mill for this? This just goes to show that if you can write enough to make a book length story anyone can be an author as long as you just write a book the rest will fall into place. You'll get picked up by people who look like basedjacks in real life that like to collect funko pops. As long as you don't use the gamer word or make all your female characters prostitutes

>>20009610
>As long as you don't use the gamer word or make all your female characters prostitutes
welp that rules me out

>>20009576
>You know that's a thing right?
If he's talking about a magazine-fed pistol (which he almost certainly is) then it's not a thing.

>>20009576
>multiple personalities

iTs oKAy HeS juSt CraZy

>>20009643
Fuck you, bootlicking faggot

>>20009591
What's wrong with putting all your stories in one shared universe where you can stick single-line references in any book you've written, referencing future or past stories, and watching your fans get lost in what you made?

>>20009662
anything that reminds contrarian shitlords of marvel and other popular things has to be hated no matter what
inb4 some absolute nonsense like >muh lazy writing and >muh pandering

>>20009662
it's lazy and devolves into fan service kevin smith quipfests that give the vacuous appearance of being witty or profound

>>20007447
that's just a kickstarter, he'll sell those books too, so he will make a lot more money

>>20008571
>>20008558
>>20008522
>getting this buttblasted because someone didn't like your work
NONONONO

>>20009561
>The vast majority of people don't know of his BYU lectures nor viewed them.
Friend, I didn't say they all watched his lectures back to back. I said that because he released his lectures, and also his old blog stuff, at the right time his ideas and name proliferated within a certain discourse, and that this was ultimately extremely beneficial for him. This should be obvious, since it is just a repetition of my first post.

>People love his books because of the shared universe in the Cosmere and how it all fits together.

Some people, I am guessing you, do. But I commonly see people express views different from that, that they maybe like 1 or 2 of his works despite the whole MCU thing.
Also this reads like something taken off the blurb of one of his own books lol.

>>20009649
What did he mean by this?

>>20009789
It wasn't a question of not liking it, I just thought it was amateuristic, overwritten, and not particularly insightful or interesting. The anon who wrote it seems to be dense in general so it's not surprising. He should stick to YA rather than try aiming at a hurdle he'll never surpass.

>>20009798
I'd agree it's amateurish, but my point was that he was overreacting.

>>20009821
yeah I know what your point is
I just wanted to shit on him some more lol

>>20007447
I jerk off to superior dickgirl porn and live the /lit/ life

>>20009791
You can read all of his stuff as standalone. Doesn't change that it's connected. Guess what you can also read comics standalone too. Point is the vast majority of his fans have nothing to do with his lectures, blogs or the like.

>>20008664

I dont know if youre the anon asking for advice but the majority of people here are ugly narcissists who dont read for themselves but to appear better than other. The a lot of people criticizing others on this board do it because they cant create anything for themselves.

Audiences aren't magically found, marketing is generally the same regardless of where you go. Create a reddit account and do writing prompts to get a following, get a twitter and interact with other writers, look around locally and ask book stores for help marketing your book (You'll have to go to a print shop for signs etc). You as a person need to be likeable even if its a facade. Internet marketing is a money sink if you arent doing it yourself. Contact publishers, ask for advice, and do it frequently throughout your creative process. They will see you grow and may even be interested in picking up your book if they have been helping you with it, obviously, repay your debt in the first deal with them. Your relationship is mutual but you should be aiming to work with them and others in the future. Once you have real credentials you shouldn't be as willing to accept less for your work.

>>20009610
They're also paying for loot boxes but most importantly they're paying to support their favourite big boy.

>>20009058
>Sanderson would not be nearly as popular as he is if it were not for his lectures
Yep. I despise 99% of fantasy writing and that includes the snippets of his I've read. There's a reason LoTR and GoT (first 3 anyway) are classics -- the authors took them seriously and didn't self-insert a wacky modern progressive protagonist.

I too heard of B.S. thru his "Rules of Magic" which Reddit faggots quote as received wisdom. And all they are is "don't be the retard who decides because you're writing fantasy it's valid to introduce Superman and a ninja baby and a talking dinosaur on a whim."

>>20010010
>Contact publishers, ask for advice, and do it frequently throughout your creative process
What's your advice for cis white males? If you're being honest you know your advice absolutely will not work.

>>20009407
Yup that’s where he lost me. Non American authors really can’t be bothered to do 5 minutes of research about guns can they? Do all authors half ass everything this much or am I just the autistic one researching for hours how an ibm hexa hand calculator from 1963 works for a short story he knows nobody will ever read?

>>20010813
>me no colored
You know that part on the cover of your novel that has your name? Yeah change that to Laquesha Freeman. You’re welcome

>>20010808
But it's hilarious to do in comedies

His stuff is basically MCU in pages. It's the lowest common denominator of fantasy.

>>20010010
Thanks anon, some actually good advice in there. I don't understand why no one else could write as lucidly as you.
Btw. how does one pick which publishers, especially if you don't write genre fiction?
>>20009823
Why? Surely you have better things to do?
>>20009789
I'm not buttblastered but how would you react if you were asking which model of SUV they'd recommend for your budget and all they're telling you that "if you can drive, you'll find the right SUV"?

>>20011163
>Thanks anon, some actually good advice in there.
he's lying. everything he said is total bs or regurgitated from some podcast interview of an old ugly cunt who spread her legs in new york for a book deal in 1992 and is now grandfathered in.
He's telling you exactly what you want to hear for some perverse sense of civic duty, that's all.
Go on reddit? Yeah okay. Try that, see how it goes.
enjoy licking the asscrack of others for months on end to no real benefit and getting banned on the whim of a powerhungry mod.
Or hang about in writing discords watching a plethora of talentless amateurs (mostly women) write shitty YA and all suck each other off.
Great advice man. NYT bestsellers here we come!!!!
Just post on Reedsy every week and pay $5 so that your painstakingly constructed work can lose to yet another girl's self important pussyfart about being in love with Jason.
Just spend hours a day emailing agents from querytracker so that they can ignore your email for 6 months while they handle their priority group of bisexual latinx harvard graduates and preestablished authors whom they want to suck the blood from.
Just get on your kneels and beg for table scraps, lose any self esteem, become a social butterfly, post photos of a typewriter on instagram, make youtube reviews, pay for astroturfing, spend a year building 10k followers on twitter to be permabanned for saying something bad about vax. Just cut your dick off and promote yourself as a marginalized transsensual. Just worship every hot button democrat issue to prove how morally just you are.

THEN you might get like 10 people to buy your book about star wars, or whatever.

>>20010010
>Contact publishers, ask for advice
? ? ? ? ? ?
I've had a reply from a publisher about twice in my entire career. Both times were template responses.
You are a liar, liar, LIAR.

>>20011414
Okay, so then what do you do instead? Obviously nothing is foolproof, but you must have insight into which strategies will fair better?

>>20011555
work hard for years and years
win awards
there is no shortcut.

>>20011605
Could you be a iota more specific? Work hard at what exactly? Obviously refining one's writing is implied. But how does one 'get it out there'? Where is there? To whom? What does that process look like?
Which awards do you enter? How do you strategize your entries?
What has worked for you? What mistakes did you make along the way? What are you still trying to figure out?

>>20007516
this guys writing has always been edgy highschooler tier. are fantasyfags really satisifed with this shit?

It's hilarious and infuriating to see the amount of hateful vitriol thrown at such a great author. He writes with soul, passion, and dedication. It is not only his life's work, it's why he lives. Are you so insanely jealous of his success that you would cast such malice and contempt at him?

What is it precisely?
If it was truly his skill, you would scoff and ramble about plebs buying the next Harry Potter. You would not be able to rally such hate. Hating his fanbase is meaningless as an author's fanbase isn't an indicator of his craft. So what is it? Do you hate how he's successful at something you've longed strived for all the while writing something you consider beneath you? Why would you hate a man for that? If it was truly beneath you it would simply be disappointing, not inspiring dread and loathing.

>>20011621
depends

>>20011760
>If it was truly beneath you it would simply be disappointing, not inspiring dread and loathing.
blanket statement that doesn't follow.
I can tell you're a shitty writer.

>>20012208
What has worked for you? What mistakes did you make along the way? What are you still trying to figure out?

>>20012222
dude just stop trying to look for easy ways out
your writing is gonna be different to mine and anyone else's.
the only thing you can do is get better through practice, develop your voice and get feedback from people. enter contests and submit to mags for legitimacy. there's no magic formula that will let you skip 10 years of work, and anyone who says there is is selling you snake oil

>>20012228
But obviously how do figure out which magazines or contests are the right ones?
Are you suggesting that it's a total crapshoot? Because not all feedback is the same, and if you base your decisions about where to submit on their feedback - you may not be acting on good advice? So are you saying to blindly submit to anything that seems like it may be relevant and hope that eventually your find your groove?
I realize this may be less of a problem for people working in traditional genres, if you're doing Sword and Sorcery or Gothic Horror there's already some parameters that take the guesswork out of it. But what if you don't know how to describe your work?
Why do you keep assuming that it's looking for an 'easy' or 'shortcut' if you're going to invest 10, 20 years in something. Why the fuck would you advise people to do anything other than bet strategically? To do their research? To give them the benefit of your experience?

>>20012228
But also, I repeat for the third time:
>What has worked for you? What mistakes did you make along the way? What are you still trying to figure out?
Why are you so reticent to answer that? Even if there is no certainty it applies to me, maybe it applies to someone else in this thread, ya know? Maybe there are some general patterns or lessons to be learned?

>>20012242
>how do figure out which magazines or contests are the right ones?
The ones that you win are the right ones.


>But what if you don't know how to describe your work?
then you haven't found your voice yet

>Why the fuck would you advise people to do anything other than bet strategically?
it's not a 'bet', it's hard work. something you seem to want to try any means to avoid.

>>20012249
it's not declarative knowledge, it's procedural. you don't gain it from talking, only from doing.

>>20012242
Man, write stories and submit them to places that consider them. You're focused on the process when that's not the fucking hard part.
>why should I invest 10 to 20 years in this
Because you love doing it and want to be successful at it? If you're approaching writing as some sort of means-to-an-end chore then I don't think it's right for you.

>>20012266
>The ones that you win are the right ones.
How many did you submit to before you got your second win? 10? 100? 734?
>then you haven't found your voice yet
Okay that was my bad, I meant, I can't describe it by genre and don't know which market segment it would fit it. I can describe it. But I'm not sure I can describe who it is for... because it's just for me.
>it's not a 'bet', it's hard work. something you seem to want to try any means to avoid.
You're putting hard work into something that may not work out in the way you want.
That's a bet.
>it's not declarative knowledge, it's procedural. you don't gain it from talking, only from doing.
I don't believe you have succeeded. Why? Because as a writer it should be very easy for you to describe the narrative of what happened. And since you worked hard for it, you should be reveling in the chance to show that it is hard work. Expecting me to give up because it's "too hard".
>>20012267
>If you're approaching writing as some sort of means-to-an-end chore then I don't think it's right for you.
You're conflating the act of writing with the hustle of going-pro. Obviously if one's only intention is to go pro, then they should avoid writing.

>>20009610

Die virgin

>>20009610
You and >>20011414 this guy: fight it out!

>>20012318
dude you're so dense I'm surprised you haven't had a satellite fall on your head
the only book you're ever gonna write is a memoir, titled: A Lost Cause

>>20012318
Let's figure this out together, anon.
>What genre is your work in?
>What age range is it aimed for?

>>20012332
I'm 20011414 and I think he's right.

>>20007516
I don't see what's wrong with it

>>20012342
he doesnt have a genre
I bet this fag is still in the stage of aping david foster wallace and YA and probably starts every sentences with SHE X and uses 'was' in every sentence
welp I've been writing for 3 months now, time to collect my book deal from Rando House poggers

>>20012358
Literary fiction is a genre. Experimental fiction is also a genre.

>>20012363
brain damage

>>20012343
No way, even better! Like quality of the work aside you still admire Sanderson's playing of the game well yeah? The way he rose above the chaff.

>>20012342
>>What genre is your work in?
I don't know. It often goes into metafiction, not so much in self-reflexivity but more frame stories.
I can describe themes and subjects, not genre.
>>What age range is it aimed for?
It's not really aimed at anyone. I thought the whole point is write for yourself, find your voice, and then figure it out?

>>20012369
That's experimental fiction.

>>20012377
please stop

>>20012389
What has worked for you? What mistakes did you make along the way? What are you still trying to figure out?

>>20012377
>metafiction
See, we're already getting somewhere. Could you describe some of your themes? Or better yet, post a sample of your writing (I advise to screenshot it)?

>It's not really aimed at anyone.
By the sound of it, it's adult non-mass market.

>I thought the whole point is write for yourself, find your voice, and then figure it out?
Sure, but you have some idea of the kind of people who would be interested in your work.

>>20012391
1. harry potter fanfic
2. got ron weasley's voice wrong
3. the canonical color of hermione's muff

>>20012389
Fuck off.

>>20012396
kek. Still more informative than that anon

>>20012402
I'm about ten people ITT

>>20007516
reminds me of my middle school fanfictions . god awful. most boring writing style

>>20012402
No wonder the general discourse sucks dick

>>20012406
doesn't matter the writing is only to convey the fight scenes and power logic. It's puerile escapism

is this anon gonna answer the three questions or not??

>>20010010
has this worked for you? what books of yours have been published?

>>20012513
they're not legitimate questions, so no

>>20012530
no

>>20012534
then why are you giving it for advice?

>>20012536
to make myself feel useful and knowledgeable

>>20012547
hmm yes.

>>20012547
Why aren't you writing actual prose/non-fiction instead of larping in this thread?

>>20012555
if I did the former, I wouldn't need the latter

>>20012492
how can you escape to another world when its mindless and boring? people say tolkien overexplains shit but it gives you times to visualize things and you get sucked into the world and feel like youre somewhere else, thats what a good writer should accomplish to do. this makes me feel somewhere else, which is in 8th grade, writing edgy fanfiction

>>20012579
tolkien doesnt explain anything except in the appendix which is why he wrote it because so many people were complaining that he didnt explain shit. have you actually read lotr?

>>20012618
just read the entire trilogy in under a month and you have low reading comprehension, tolkien is autistic with explaining terrain and settings , appendix is just lore which isnt what i mean

>>20012643
bro
please tell me you're not bragging about reading lotr

>>20012643
no i think youre just repeating what normies say about him without thinking about it. we dont even know what color legolas hair is, he doesnt describe cloths hardly ever. dont really know what elves even look like or their ears

hes writes in a very realistic way and all his characters seem completely real but he doesnt do lore dumps or autistic rants about detail. youre a midwit

>>20012534
>>20012530
he's LARPing as me

>>20012660
youre the one who asked faggot

>>20012678
all you had to do is answer the original question instead of making a pointless post

how many books have you had published?

>>20012683
does self publishing count?

>>20012671
none of that shit matters, when did i say characters ? he explains just enough to give you free reign to visualize, which this faggot OP author doesnt. god you shills suck such massive cock

>>20012685
no. how many books have you had published by following the method you suggest to others?

>>20012690
none. it's not that easy to get published

you agree that not only does tokien engage in lots of detail rants, you even agree that he seems to overdo it, at least at first. now youre saying he explains just enough. youre a midwit and youre floundering around trying to hide that youre a midwit

>>20012579
>people say tolkien overexplains shit but it gives you times to visualize things

>>20012693
see
>>20012536

>>20007447
Did he just BTFO Stephen King?

>>20012530
>>20012685
>>20012693
This isn't me either. It's someone pretending.

>>20012712
deepest lore

>>20012690
>how many books have you had published
zero

for the love of god someone give a straight answer

>>20012772
I did but it wasn't the answer you wanted to hear.

>>20007516
Unironically what exactly is wrong with this? It seems pretty cringe but the other replies are acting like its completely unreadable. Is the prose that bad?

>>20012772
About what

>>20012940
yes its soulless.

Do people actually want to read the books or do they just follow the hype and loot boxes?

>>20007671
>>20008417
>>20008921
>>20009407
>>20009610
>>20011657
>>20012406
Post your own prose and lets compare it to his if you think his prose is that.

>>20012940
What do you mean, what's wrong with it? It's fast food.

>>20013580
>>20013713
What makes it bad besides these vague nothing criticisms? It's not the most gripping prose, sure, but I don't see anything overtly 'wrong' with it. It establishes 'hallucinatory protagonist' fairly well, if a little heavy-handedly. The details of what the hallucination are doing help set in what that particular one is 'like' as a character.

>>20013724
First of all you answered your own question, second you're using meaningless statements yourself like "vague nothing" and words with single quotes around them for no reason, third it has been explained, but ultimately you don't need this explained to you. It's elementary, if you don't get it, you won't get it with further wasted words.

>>20013742
>I won't explain it to you because I can't explain it

>>20013701
>He pried open his anus.
>Geronimo, said Frog. I’m coming Elizabeth!
>The amphibian adventurer bounded into the chasmic opening, an expanse of death and foetid disgustingness. There were anal fissures lining the rectum, as well as piles like lodes of iron, usually hidden within the anus, exposed now in the light, as if unearthed demons from hell that have emerged from the bowels of Dis. The frog, dashing as he was, held his foil aloft and held the feathered hat upon his head with webbed hand.
>This will be a tale to tell the Scarlet Pimpernel! he croaked.
>Once he bounded in, he was alone in the blackness. In the darkened, stinking, dank opening, the frog tried to find light, but he was interrupted by a slick and foul entity.
>I am Lord Auch, it bellowed from the darkness. I shall cover you in shit and choke out your life force!
>Mon Dieu, cried the frog, his sword pointed at the kingdom of shadows.
>What came out was a horror barely described in words. A brown, thickened carapace of unprocessed corn was its armour, underneath was the barely digested slimy excreta of the man, the stink of which would wilt a rose.
>Come hither, knave! shouted the Frog.
>The two clashed: sword against shit; waste against musketeer! How the anus of the man trembled and he let out a cry: By Gad, I’ve got diarrhoea!
>And lo, the man shat out the amphibian musketeer and the huge shit monster, who both writhed in wet waste upon the floor, until the Frog had the advantage and slew the shit monster by throwing him into a toilet and flushing it asunder.

>>20007447
Fools. He is donating that money to himself in order to launder it. He probably hired some ghost writers from Fiverr in order to write those books. There's no way that 68k people would donate $250 on average to support some "mediocre writer". It's like if every /lit/ anon would donate $100 to F. Gardner

>I’m not part of the <<<tribe>>>
Mormons unashamedly support other Mormons even if they produce mediocre shit. See: Mitt Romney and Orson Scott Card

>>20013746
Not him but you explained it yourself. Why pretend like you don't get it. Seriously, why should I waste my time reading a book by someone who can't write? simple as.

>>20013977
These aren't answers. Why is it bad?

>>20007516
This is the retard /lit/ keeps on shilling? he looks and writes as if he has Down's, lol.

>>20013983
His prose is awful, he cannot write. Again, why would I waste my time reading someone who can't write?

>>20013957
>some "mediocre writer"
Regardless of whatever /lit/ thinks of him, Sanderson is one of the biggest names in fiction and has a massive following. He isn't just some random hack who published a book or two ten years ago.

>>20014047
Your book sales numbers?

>>20014050
What is bad about it?

>>20013770
10/10 anon you're 5 points above Sandersoi

Anyone have the meme where it says "how not to write a book" then its just a picture of the last stormlight archives book?

>>20014051
>Regardless of whatever /lit/ thinks of him, Sanderson is one of the biggest names in fiction and has a massive following. He isn't just some random hack who published a book or two ten years ago.

ive read tons of fantasy/sci-fi. ive never heard his name until this thread. what is his most famous book?

>>20014227
Probably Mistborn: The Final Empire? He's more known for two series primarily, Mistborn and The Stormlight Archive.

>>20014241
never heard of it

>>20014253
What have you read? In a vague overview?

>>20014260
dune, tolkien, worm ouroboros, broken sword, philip k dick, heinlein, vampire hunter d, jack vance, asimov, book of the new sun, robert e howard, night land, several dozen random D&D, magic the gathing, start wars, dragonlance books

>>20007447
His world building is good. His characters are serviceable. People are just seething because he has a workman prose even though he never claimed to be a flowery, artistic writer.

>>20007447
>no one in this thread had mentioned the swag back boxes
Wtf are thry?

>>20012530
Someone could make an edit of this, would make for an epic 4chins meme

>>20008921
I suspect it’s referring to JC having shot someone else earlier, and the author is conscious of it. But then why didn’t he say “he HAD emptied”…? You’re a published author now bro, not a middle schooler

>>20014347
Is it really supposed to be he had emptied and not he emptied. My lit teacher told me using had makes the writing inactive and dry

>>20010010

>banned on reddit
>banned on twitter
>banned from facebook
>banned from goodreads
>banned from the pub (vaxx passport)
>banned from most public spaces where people interact (vaxx passport)

at least I can still sell books holding a sign in front of the liquor store!

>>20014347
I'm pretty sure the entire point is it's an irrational fear because it's a hallucination. JC doesn't exist for real. A hallucination wouldn't care about reloading.

>>20014304
t-shirts and stickers and shit

>>20014293
so hows this list?

>>20007516
Well, it's fast for a reason, duh!

>>20008522
This is awful

>>20011657
One third of each book from the Stormlight Archive is kino. His prose is not good, his books are too long, but the magic system and pay offs are good. The characters are decent but when you're gonna make 12 books, you're gonna just write a bunch of filler. He inspired me to read classic short stories and novellas.

>>20015606
His short stories and novellas are actually all pretty solid, too. Emperor's Soul is great.

>>20007516
>I'd learned to keep...

>>20015615
I... Don't see the issue with that line.

>>20008522
>>20007516
what do you call this type of writing? it seems modern. where they are like hyper aware of the reader, always trying to be hip and stylish? i hate writing and am horrible (i just read) so maybe one of you writer larper anons can better explain it? its written like the narration of a stereotypical film noir private eye type thing. there must be a name for it

imagine reading your favorite book in this style

>gandalf sauntered in with a certain je ne sais quoi that reminded me of the cold dark alleys of tookland that i had studied as a bright eyed lad before the tv static haze of the world had taught me never to hope. i could tell that his lips begged to tell me something problematic but his eyes wanted only to spare me from whatever revelation he came for. i asked if he would take wine, already knowing the answer, and began to prepare the tea he had become accustomed to on his many, yet sporadic visits to my humble abode.

>>20015688
The manchild prose

>>20015688
>what do you call this type of writing
cringe/gay
or just simply 'bad'

>>20007447
so this is the power of being mormon. btw, how is the stormlight archive series? worth a try?

>>20016010
It's pretty good. Definitely a hard sell for your first Sanderson book considering it's a pretty big series which takes the entirety of the first book for things to start happening.

>>20015989
>>20015880
there has to be some sort of term. are there really not words for different styles of prose? professionals actually have to resort to shit like kafkaesque and bombadillian? i thought it was just a meme

>>20016269
Conversational narration is what I'd call it?

>>20007516
It's not that bad.

>>20015688
Your attempt at insufferable prose is actually more interesting and palatable than the Sanderson extract.

>>20016289
This is Ready Player One isn't it?

>>20016289
crazy

>>20012940
>>20013724
>>20013746
>>20013983
>>20014070
They can’t write and Sanderson can, it’s that simple.

>>20015688
the type of writing style applies to all art, video games, anything modern, architecture. it's called to me, like giving the foundation necessary for an image to form, and so the viewer fills in all the empty details of what is missing by their imagination. like when we were children and we play with toys and somehow made stories from them. listen to Alan Walker Faded, or Coldplay, it's the same foundations applied for forming the imagery, while the rest is relatively clean. You could describe it as watered down or soulless, but that it just only plays it safe. theres nothing wrong with them which is why they are relatively popular, but theres nothing there that took a creative risk for the artist to expose himself to critique

>>20016418
its definitely not a neutral tone. its very...energetic and in your face. not comfy at all. it feels more like watching a movie than kicking back and reading leisurely. hell it feels more like listening to an audio book than actually reading the book itself

>>20016435
i think thats because art is faceted so while the medium that you are looking at is the words then the imagery is the scene of what is being written. the writer is probably popular for a reason, because there would be students of this writing style who do the same thing and are not popular. so what you are reading is objectively the best for the medium and the writer conveyed his emotion well enough for people to like. if it was monotone it just wouldnt be energetic, and thus not posted here

>>20016289
Yeah, alright, but how much did he write? And more importantly, was he studying or absorbing them as part of an organic growth process for his own writing?

>>20016454
you sound like a pseud midwit trying to justify your own shitty writing/reading

anyway if its such a magical fucking writing style you can at least tell me the name of it so i can avoid it like the plague >>20015688

>>20007516
it's not even bad
go to bed, /lit/

>>20016573
>it's not even bad
It isn't, but they have to seethe somehow.

>>20011472

lol Im the actual anon that posted. I actually was working on my own project and not posting on this board.

When I say contacting a publisher, I don't necessarily mean formally. You are calling them, emailing them, reaching out to their editors, looking for relationships, alternative places to publish your work online or for local events, information about their screening processes and pointers to better position yourself to work with them in the future. That being said those people just work there and will give you bad advice, you just need to remember to be likeable and kind. It is literally their job to help you regardless of their job title and always in their best interest to maintain a relationship with you unless you are an egregious douche nugget.

>>20014362
pic related

Some things are good but you should just publish anonymously as an ebook with how little value is placed on the arts by people. I've heard too many people say "freedom of speech doesnt mean freedom of consequence" but thats actually exactly what it was intended for.

If youre serious about writing, I'm sure you have more ideas and could afford to censor one down into a piece for normies. I hate woke culture and how it feels like the majority of value is in what people can skim. You don't need to compromise your beliefs, just be aware of how others see it right now and separate it. Mishima was a terrorist first and author second, those feelings make your art and arent always understood.

>>20014362
Are you still being a deadbeat father to your child Jason?

>>20009029
you won't be remembered.

>>20009662
>>20009672
i don't think you like literature or understand it lol

>>20007516
Brando Sando is a fast writer, and that's the best way to describe everything about him.

>>20013580
Can you give me an example line and what's bad about it or something? Im trying to get better at evaluating prose and this seems like a good example.

>>20017298
see
>>20015688
>>20016435

I really like the stormlight archive but Sanderson has a massive problem with padding for length. On the flipside, I did not enjoy Mistborn none of the characters except Kelsier left an impression on me and I can hardly remember them, that's not to say Kelsier was an excellent character - he was decent and the least offensive still offensive to some degree.. The romance was especially dogshit. Yeah sure Allomancy and some plot points were cool but when your characters are so bland and your dialogue is so cheesy and terribly, it's really hard to read through. He showed massive improvement with the Stormlight Archive but it's still got some issues.

>>20017479
My biggest issue with Stormlight's pacing is the part structure means that you can end one part on a cliffhanger for one character, and then have a whole entire other part without them so you're going like 200+ pages before resolving the cliffhanger. By that point I've almost forgotten what the hell the issue was.

>>20017798
That was an enormous problem for me too. I'd get to the end of a Dalinar part and have to read 50,000 words about Shallan and nearly rush myself through it, but by the time I got back to Dalinar I'd forgotten what the plot point I wanted to continue on with was.

>>20014985
It's like some gold dust sprinkled over a large amount of feces

>>20018268
If it's just one or two chapters before resolving the cliffhanger, that's fine. A whole section of the book? Very rough.

>>20007516
lmao it reads like it was written by an AI

>>20018378
You know what? Fuck you, bitch. I don't have to explain myself to you. Fuck off. You fucking piece of shit. You don't like it? DON'T READ IT! Fuckass. You're a fucking fuckass, you piece of shit.

That goes for the rest of you >>20007671
>>20007675
>>20007850
>>20007854
>>20008417
>>20008500
>>20008921
>>20009407
>>20009610
>>20011657
>>20012406
>>20014047
>>20015615

Fucking bitches. Walking around like you're untouchable. Like I couldn't fuck you in the ass if I wanted. Fucking test me, bitches. Step up to me. You can find me. It's public domain. Come out to Nebraska, see what happens. See what happens to bitches who test me. I'll fuck you in your bitch asses right in front of my wife and kids. Think I won't? Come find me.

Bitches.

>>20013770
is this real? oh no no no no sanderson bros what is this from?

>>20012940
its not worth 20 million dollars for bland cliched writing

>>20013701

Those new niggerpals niggervited me out to more niggervents where we niggerhad more nigversations and this spiraled to the niggerpoint where we had more and more nigversations and more and more and more and more nigversations and more and more nigversations about niggerstotle and niggo and rene nigcartes and heinigger and friedrich nigshe and i think juden peternigger was part of the barheld nigversations as well. But niggless to say, my niggerpals dranigged me niggerfuther and further and niggerfuther into what they niggerloved. At the time i was being niggerswept by the smartniggerthings that things that things that things that they would niggersay, and i niggerwanted to niggergive them something back back. But niggerbookstores were niggerbanned, all nigterature was free, noniggerbody ever niggersold books. My new niggerfriends had niggernections in the niggerbook game niggerthough and that niggergave me the right nigportunity. If i could niggerread some of my own niggerterature, well nigless to say, and nigless to say and would not nigless to say continue on for a nigless second more, if i niggerhad any niggerthing to niggerdo with it, i would niggerepay my new niggerbuds for their kind nigtroductions to the world. So anigway, i anigway tried to niggergo my ownnigway, nigspired by my nigfriends but solonig, but i’d niggerbring them back some niggerthing, so i went and bought my own nigterature and did it niggersecretly and began my niglegal journey of niggerreading. If i could niggerform a niggoriginal nigpinion, then i would be in a double nice position. The first nice would be that i could get a couple one ups on my friends, and the second and the second and the niggersecond thing would be that i could niggerscape the niggerfluence of my niggefriends enough to actually niggerweild the right kind of niggeresponsibility over my niggerdestiny. It was niggertough, nigless to say. Trying to have my own nigpinion instead of repeating or nodding or nigpeating or nodding what my guys were speaking about would nigsult in some sort of nigction against me if my nigpinion was not properly nigformed.

>>20009001
Hes mormon

>>20016435
>it feels more like watching a movie than kicking back and reading leisurely
ya because books became a hot medium when retards took over

>>20016623
>always in their best interest to maintain a relationship with you unless you are an egregious douche nugget.
I'm out

>>20007516
>like firecrackers
>I'd learned to keep them there
>He might accidentally shoot me
Worst offenders imo

>>20009407
Maybe the narrator knows fuck all about guns anon

>>20007516
someone sounds jealous

>>20019234
>is this real?
No, Sanderson avoids sex, raunchiness and profanity like the plague.

I don't know much about this dude, never read any of his books, but I saw this earlier today and I found it fucking hilarious
Fucking seething with jealousy

>>20020986
>makes niggers, shitskins, and f*males seethe

ok im starting to like this mr anderson guy or whatever his name is

>>20015666
Not that anon, but it's cooler if you let the reader figure simple shit like that instead of just telling him.
Same with the he might shoot me bit, I think.

>>20016435
I know what you mean, yeah

>>20020986
Based. If the seethe escalates even further over the few weeks of the kickstarter I might throw a cheeky few bucks at it

>>20020986
Literally:
>give me lots of money because I have a vagina or dark skin
How do they expect anyone to take them seriously? Is it really so hard to grasp that readers will give money to people who entertain them simply because they entertain them?

>>20020986
>i wanna be able to compete with men!
>i dont wanna compete with men! not fair! give me handicaps!
make up your mind roasts. although the modern publishing industry is ran by women, they still find a way to nag and bitch. cant make this shit up.

>>20021007
I dunno, there's nothing wrong with being blunt about it. It could've been phrased better, used something more like "For just this occasion", but it's absolutely a workable line. As for the "might shoot me" bit, that is admittedly a little clunky, but I think ultimately necessary to convey the fear of dealing with the hallucinations.

>>20021117
holy cope

>>20007447
>4 books in one year
that makes me kind of nervous

>>20020986
>Fucking seething with jealousy
envy, actually

>>20020986
>look up Natania Barron and Alex Brown
>one is in damage control mode and the other changed her tweets to private
shouldn't have opened your mouths if you weren't ready to be called out for it desu senpai

>>20020986
I know it's ragebait but lol
>>20021117
I just feel being blunt takes away from it. Feels like a lack of confidence on the audience. I like it when these details make sense a bit later. It's nice on re-read too, but I guess these books aren't made for that really.
>ultimately necessary to convey the fear of dealing with the hallucinations
I think it does show that the protagonist fears the hallucinations, and makes you ask why. I thought it was intentional so I didn't feel like calling it superflous as the other line was fair. But I feel like there has to be a better way to convey the same thing

>>20021341
the roast groupsupport and white knights are top KEK

>>20021364
Oh, sure, there's almost always better ways to do specific lines especially when the prose is more matter-of-fact. It's harder to judge more flowery prose as 'incorrect'. Given these are some of the first lines (I assume) they are fairly rough, I don't think anybody's saying this is fantastic, but it's hardly garbage. Presumably the intentions of these first few lines are "character has hallucinations, has dealt with this specific one before, is kinda terrified of them". The content of the hallucinations aren't too relevant, but showcasing that he's prepared real-world equipment to try and deal with them is solid. He doesn't know EXACTLY how the hallucination will react to being disturbed, and if he's hallucinating and aware of it, he's clearly pretty insecure, so he would be overly cautious and afraid of being shot. Again, not perfect, but nothing fundamentally wrong here. You never see people posting the first page of Way of Kings by comparison, and that's much better (discounting the prelude which I feel detracts a little from getting started).

>>20020995
>>20021086
they're both white women though

>>20007447
I don't have one, apparently.

>>20021444
you put more effort into this analysis than he did the whole book

>>20020986
Why aren't people seeing this event as an inspiration to strive harder for themselves? When I see a rich man in nice clothes with a hot woman in his passenger seat, I don't want to tear him down. I want to work hard to get to that level myself.

>>20021790
based

>>20020986
>"Y'all are intent on giving that man millions of dollars"
>"Y'all are intent on"
>"Y'all"
I hope Brando Sando comes to this cunt's house in the middle of the night and caves his head in with a copy of Mistborn.