/lit/ - Literature

those are mostly basic facts. but the reason people like him is he writes engaging novels.

Let's be real, if Doschudevsky was alive today he'd be some anti-sjw twitter user with 10 appearances on PragerU.

>>19999546
This is literally me. Even the being a former leftist part.
Maybe I should start reading some Dosto now…

>>19999562
he'd have killed himself.

>>19999546
Because of the current christian trad larp trend

>>19999546
>Overcome yourself, don't lie, work hard

When has Dostoevsky ever written this

>>19999552
>those are mostly basic facts

I think Dostoevsky is fun to read altho I lean marxist. Especially when he makes fun of humanists or a do-gooder upper class.

you can tell that dostoevsky is a mid writer because he’s always reduced to his ”messages” like this

>>19999546
Primitive political opinions aside, Dostoievsky was a great writer.

>>19999546
This is a rather lackluster and primitive reading of Doestoevsky that seems like Jordan Peterson, most likely because thats where you got that reading from (either directly form the man himself, or indirectly from /lit/). What makes Doestoevsky special as a writer is precisely that he refuses to turn a moral/existential conflict into a simple moral lesson (A is le bad, B is le good), but he carries out the conflict through to the end without resolving it. For example, Raskolnikov's opinions about history, morality and great men are never disproven. At the end the only thing he is convinced of is that hes not one of these men.

>>20000684
What is a primitive political opinion? Like, Chimp politics? Does it mean a strong chimp, or a group of strong chimps?

>>19999718
Yeah, Dostoevsky totally wasn't a very well regarded author before then. This is what Twitter does to your brain.

>>20000000
>>19999999

Was he gay? If not why are all his male characters twinks?

>>20000220
God forbid awritter becomes famous for the content of his writting

>>19999546
I haven't read anything from him, but I have some of his books awaiting me on my shelf. Surely he's not that basic.

You’ve probably been filtered by Dosto

>>19999546
a major reason why dostoyevsky is considered the preeminent russian author in the west is specifically because of cold war politics. tolstoy was widely considered the greatest russian author until after world war 2

>>19999546
I dont know why people like him, but I like him and do not like Jordan Peterson.
Jordan Peterson is in no way a christian or believer in Christ. He is nostalgic for the traditions of the christian west without taking part in the convictions of those societies, much akin to the ethot who post a instagram with her boobs hanging out saying, "We are the daughters of the witches you didn't burn" but they do not actually worship nature, practice any sort of magic, have no gods they devote themselves to, etc.
It is any aesthetic choice for the ethot and Jordan.
Dostoevsky on the other hand was very good at imitating Christian values in his writings or was a true born again believer. I especially love Crime and punishment. That young girl prostitute is a very real characture of a Christian. A true Christian suffers, there is no way around it because our Lord suffered and so we will. This pain is one of the signs of faith, pain that cannot be run from because it is bestowed by God as a sign of genuine supernatural faith. We receive this pain like that prostitute and it threatens to remove us from our faith with questions like, "How can God let this happen to you?" Even Jesus when he was in gethsemety prayed "Father if there is any other way let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not my will but yours be done" This holy suffering is hard to reproduce unless you have lived it. Psalm 39 for example is lost on many professing believers. All the great church fathers, theologians, Christian philosophers, and writers mention this suffering because of how distinct and alarming it is. Jeremiah, Naomi, David, Asaph know it well, and so did Fyodor.

>>19999655
Agreed. What's the entry into his work?

>>20002141
Crime and Punishment. I recommend Garnett's translation.

>>19999546
Sounds correct to me, what's the beef here exactly?

>>19999562
really the internet ruined humanity, imagine if all the mentally ill shitposters had nothing better to do than write thick depressive novels

do you think aglaia epatchina had cute feet? she sounds like she does

>>19999782
“If you want to overcome the whole world, overcome yourself”
“Above all, do not lie”

>>19999562
He would've been a major figure in the Orthodox church that exposed corruption then gets ousted for his alcoholism and gambling addiction, writes a brilliant novel, then kills himself.

>>19999546
>popular thing actually bad me smart!
Yes, we know anon, you're a true independent and unique thinker

>>20002338
>He would've been a major figure in the Orthodox church
Nah, I love him but he had way too little self-control to actually join a religious order. He spent every penny he made in his most successful years on whores and the roulette; he was a degenerate. I think today he'd end up in some kind of shitty dead end job and he'd kill himself. Honestly I think most of the great thinkers and men of the arts in the past, except maybe visual artists, would all perish under the pressure of modernity. Those who would not get filtered at the root for being misanthropes, or too reclusive, would get shot down later for being pretentious, for speaking against the lowest common denominator, for having too much of an ego, or something like that. Few would manage to survive in the modern cultural environment and they'd all get destroyed for one reason or the other. The people in these circles right now aren't just random people who took advantage of a label, but trained, hyper-socialized, professionalized social climbers who are fully immersed in their public persona at all times. It's something that not even people at the King's court in the past wouldn't feel stressed about.

>>20002426
>Nah, I love him but he had way too little self-control to actually join a religious order.
That's true. I just imagined him having a 5 year span where he desperately gets his act together, just for it to all fall apart again for the dramatic effect.

I agree that most influential lit figures of the past would crumble today, considering most of them could barely get by before consumer society became widespread. Can you imagine Nietzsche, Dosto, or Hamsun coping with the rise of social media and virtual reality? I agree nearly everyone in circles of influence are hyper socialized. Nothing is more vomit inducing than scrolling through a LinkedIn feed, thinking it's all a farce, then meeting these people irl and they are no different than their online/corporate personas. People are capable of selling their souls (or "humanity"), but not in the satanic cult way, it is a gradual process of social conditioning in which they are convinced to trade in their essence for material things. I am a reclusive and conscientious person, and being in the position of starting a potentially lucrative career (which I foresee myself abandoning a few years in, almost guaranteed), your post heavily resonated with me.

>>20002515
The scariest thing is that they have to say so much bullshit that in the end they start believing it. There's no such thing as retaining your integrity or gritting your teeth until you come back home. You either reshape yourself, your thoughts and everything else about you or you perish. I've watched a family member get absorbed and he truly believes this shit. He doesn't actively think that what he's doing is necessary or good over some kind of world view, he just does it, it's like instinctual in him now to do the bullshit. And he's become completely dehumanized. He has no human qualities anymore, a character, a set of true personal morals, there's nothing left. If I had to describe him I wouldn't know what adjectives to use, I could only list what he watches on TV or what he owns or how much he makes and what company he works for. He's like a worker ant in a hive, doing for the sake of doing. It's so incredibly alien to witness this shit.

>>19999546
where do you think peterson got it all from?

I mean, he's right.

>>19999546
I think you mean to say Jordan Peterson is basically Dostoevsky after him going on reddit.

>>20002315
Have you seen the work of Matthew Harris. Former UCLA professor who sounds right up your alley.

>>20003016
nah dosto is reddit enough as it is

>>20003081
He is pretty much pure distilled anti-reddit

>>19999546
His books are tedious and creepy. He gets in the mind of a murderer...why

>>19999718
>larp

>>20000220
Liberal detected

>>19999562

Real humans aren’t a 1:1 conversion to modern bug society

>>20002426
Actually talented artists have to havevbusiness talents or thier artistic talents do not matter. We do not have benefactors in society anymore.

>>19999546
I despise liberals but jordan peterson is a dimwit. A nice guy with a very blue pilled view of the world

>>20003087
he’s babby’s first existenshul author. he’s as reddit as it gets

>>20003114
this. not a larp

>>19999546
>why do people love him so much?
Doestoevsky appears to possess degrees of passion, conviction, and engagement with deep moral issues that we cannot or do not permit ourselves to do in our daily lives, and he does this through characters. The thing about Dostoevsky's characters is that they are alive. By which I don't just mean they're successfully realized or developed or rounded. The best of them live inside us, forever. The proud and pathetic Raskolnikov, the fawning lebyedev and spiderish Ippolit of The Idiot. The vain and noble rouletter addict Aleksey of The Gambler. The idealized and all too-human Myshkin and Aloysha, the doomed human Christ and triumphant child-pilgrim, respectively. They're not just skillfully drawn types or facets of human beings because, acting within plausible and morally compelling plots, they dramatize the profoundest parts of all humans, embodying whole ideologies and philosophies while still being 3-D individuals with their own internal conflicts and moralities.. Dostoevsky used characters to explore identity, moral value, greed, faith, reason, obsession, suicide, but his characters never became mouthpieces.

>>20003457
What about the narrator of notes from the underground

>>20001376
>Jordan Peterson is in no way a christian or believer in Christ. He is nostalgic for the traditions of the christian west without taking part in the convictions of those societies, much akin to the ethot who post a instagram with her boobs hanging out saying, "We are the daughters of the witches you didn't burn" but they do not actually worship nature, practice any sort of magic, have no gods they devote themselves to, etc.
Lmao. Based and red pilled.

>>20003457
He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous, farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway. I dislike intensely The Brothers Karamazov and the ghastly Crime and Punishment rigmarole. No, I do not object to soul-searching and self-revelation, but in those books the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search.

>First existentialist text: Ecclesiastes
>First existentialist philosopher: Kierkegaard
>First existentialist novel: Notes from Underground (Dostoevsky)

Existentialism is literally rooted in Christianity. Why do atheists pretend it's theirs?

>>20003714
Because atheists can't come up with any original ideas. They just steal religious ideas, put some secular spin on it, and say they came up with it.

>>20003255
that would be camus

>>20003255
reddit post

>>20000205
Are you expecting a cookie for being able to read an author who disagrees with you politically? Be honest. Who links this place on Twitter? Is there any way to get an account banned for advertising a different site? Is there a way to convince you to stay there?

>>20002141
There is no entry point. Read what you can get your hands on. C&P is the most plot heavy, and probably the easiest entry. But if you're a litizen you're going to read the big 5 at some point. Demons and Notes From The Underground are good books, although I'd say that having even mild knowledge of the political context of Dostoevsky's era improves the experience massively. The Idiot is a slog filter, meaning that it usually takes a patient mind to get through some parts. If you're an experienced reader (classics, non fiction, or any other low dopamine books) you'll do just fine with this. TBK is best saved for last, either with a reread after finishing his other books, or just read after you read the other 4.
Can't help you with translations, I read in a slavic language.

>>20003114
If you don't give away all your belongings and follow only Christ, you're a larper. Not according to me, according to the Bible itself

>>20004125
>open bible.txt
>ctrl+f larp
>0 results

>>20002165
I have the Garnett translation but I have thought of reading the pv translation
I'm an ESL zoomer and haven't read much
Which one do you reckon would be better anon

>>20000180
>basedjak on thing she desagree because actual thoughts are bad
grow a pair faggot

>>20003111
I think Harry Potter would be more your speed young lady.

>>20003718
Relevant Schmitt quote
>All significant concepts of the modern theory of the state are secularized theological concepts not only because of their historical development - in which they were transferred from theology to the theory of the state, whereby, for example, the omnipotent god became the omnipotent lawgiver - but also because of their systematic structure, the recognition of which is necessary for a sociological consideration of these concepts. The exception in jurisprudence is analogous to the miracle in theology. Only by being aware of this analogy can we appreciate the manner in which the philosophical ideas of the state developed in the last centuries.

>>20000220
Kill yourself.

>>20001376
good post

>>19999546
>>revolution is bad
>>we need Jesus to be moral
Everything but these two are wrong

>>19999552
Oh you've read them in Russian?

>>20006488
>men and women aren't different
based christranny bro