/lit/ - Literature

>>19982683
LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO

Liberal democracy will win. It's inevitable. Putin can push this off for maybe a generation or so, but authoritarianism will lose.

[snide remark]

>>19982716
pfft, russia is basically the vegeta to our goku. the real enemy is china.

>>19982716
idk about that, China's authoritarianism runs deeper

>>19982683
I for one welcome it. I thought I would have to live to life in this interminable “globohomo” (I know it’s a buzzword but I have no better word to accurately describe it) world for the rest of my natural life, where mediocrity is the order of the day. If history was for Joyce a nightmare from which he was trying to wake, then we have slowly but surely been waking from our sleep paralysis episode for the past 30 or so years, and we’re closer than ever now to being able to make real history (TM) again. Feel free to argue with me if you prefer your fluoride life

>>19982723
>>19982725
Chinese authoritarianism and state capitalism will sustain itself for longer, but China's ultimate destiny is liberal democracy. Liberal democracy creates the most complacent citizens of any political system mankind has ever known. Nothing can stop it.

>>19982726

I prefer the new which does not come from rehashing the old, but instead from transcending it.
There is nothing to learn from violence that we don't already know. It saddens me that you are such a coward that all you can do is crawl back into what was done before instead of becoming something different that can then create something scary and new.

We know how the story of violence ends, and that is the true definition of boring.

>>19982739
yeah, thats not going to happen chief, china will be an authoritarian state and surpass america and you cant stop that

>>19982755
>>19982725
wang, your corrupt and inefficient overbearing party will fall
market liberalism is supreme and social liberalism follows it, always
once your wages reach a certain appreciable amount you will be uncompetitive, capital will dry up, and PRC will stagnate
Taiwan, a shitty island nation filled with glorious and patriotic mainlander revolutionaries, is more of a success than your shitty slave state and that is a fact. Your ownerparty even trades with your lost patriotic brothers because they're just objectively better
Wang, I implore you to cease your shillery on this site and work in mama's noodleshop before you make a mistake and Cheka comes knocking on your door, Wang.

>>19982716
lol

Why did the madman do it?

>>19982780
russia got rid of communism and now look at it, its invading other countries, a country doesnt have to liberlize and that scares you neocon fucks

>>19982747
I see you Marinetti. But you have no concept for how violence ends, none

>>19982807
>a country doesn't have to liberalize
And India doesn't have to build toilets. They should, but they don't have to

Mark fisher btfo

>>19982807
not all conservatives hate Russia

>>19982836
yeah, fuck him too

>>19982787
lmao

>>19982716
time is ticking

>>19982716
KEK

Why is the idea of war so central to the idea of history being in motion or not? Is it specifically because of the claims of liberal democrats regarding an end of war, or is it something deeper? To me it seems like there can't be movement without physical institutional change which is only achieved through physical coercion

>>19982967
>Why is the idea of war so central to the idea of history being in motion or not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxgrr0wL8M

>>19983010
Yeah, seems to be very similar to Schmitt's sense of the ability to mobilize as a fighting collectivity as the criterion for being a truly and specifically "political" force. Liberal democracy's claim to have ended history came through force and manifested in institutional supremacy, so history can only move and politics start again when fighting collectivities arise that can physically challenge liberal democratic institutions conceived of in a material sense?

>>19982807
Invading Ukraine is one of the first things communists did when they took over russia

>>19982683
Europes dreams of driving them into ruination so they could steal all their resources and exploit their children as sex slaves?
I think most of Europe wouldn’t be down with that, Mr. Benioff

>>19982807
>russia got rid of communism and
shrank and everyone got poor and died. Jewish oligarchs raped that country in the 90s. life expectancy fell by a decade. it was horrible. Putin cleaned house and he is never trusting Westerners again

>>19982716
>the 30something blackpilled post911oomer

>>19982683
Historychads.... its finally happening, we are becoming.... they said we were dead but we live.

>>19982948
he said neocons, retard

>>19983490
be quiet, no one asked you

Multipolar politics is not something new since the fall of the ussr

>>19983499
I was about to ask him.

>I for one welcome it. I thought I would have to live to life in this interminable “globohomo” (I know it’s a buzzword but I have no better word to accurately describe it) world for the rest of my natural life, where mediocrity is the order of the day. If history was for Joyce a nightmare from which he was trying to wake, then we have slowly but surely been waking from our sleep paralysis episode for the past 30 or so years, and we’re closer than ever now to being able to make real history (TM) again. Feel free to argue with me if you prefer your fluoride life

>>19982739
It may create complacent citizens, but it also destroys the human capital of every country that implements it in the long term. Its also the worst system to have in a situation of conflict. Nobody in Europe will give their life to defend their own country much less the GAE.

>>19982716
It won't be because of liberal democracies, it will be because of churkas outbreeding literally everyone else.

>>19982726
...how the fuck have so many people like you become so optimistic overnight? How is globohomo possibly being challenged? The average zoomer literally believes that the highest virtues in life are gay sex, skin color and social media clout. The average person is still a weak, complacent, anxious, envious consumer with no intention of ever replacing the global system or thinking of a superior alternative. This is universally true for most people in developed countries.

>>19983046
Do you think mass democracies can mobilize a fighting collectivity?

>>19982836
Wake his limp wristed ass up

>>19982726
>Feel free to argue with me if you prefer your fluoride life

Yes, anon, the return of history is the possibility to risk your life and die a horrible death for the sake of big capital and/or for israel on top of everything else that was already sapping the west's vital forces. Die in a dingy ditch somewhere for the sake of people who have nothing but vitriol for you, millions upon millions of arabs and negroes are knocking on the door already to replace you in the space you and others of your kind used to occupy!

>>19982807
>The USSR wasn't invading sovereign countries and installing puppet states
Lmao leftists are delusional

>>19984012
The average person quite literally does not matter.
They’ll follow along as history drags them by the collar.
History is shaped by great men, not complacent masses.

>>19984080
Until there is a viable alternative to Liberalism that can completely change our world order then Francis Fukuyama hasn’t been proven incorrect at all, it doesn’t matter how many wars happen. As long as people define themselves on a liberal ontology then liberalism will remain. Much of the world will still be divided based on nationalism and other things but all the top developed states are increasingly liberalized no matter what. Good luck convincing anyone raised on the internet to stop believing in human rights, equality, democracy, liberation, etc.

>>19984103
You do realize that the internet has been an extremely polarizing force and that gen z can be divided into non-political masses who just want to consoom and political extremists that'll gladly execute every single one of their enemies.

Classical liberalism is dead. The totalitarian, neoliberal state is fracturing and extremism is on the rise.

>>19982747
Transcendence is not real. You don't understand the spiral pith of humans. We are a recursively improving synergy. Like it or not, this sort of 'improvement' with each turn of the drill is what you are getting.

History bros, our time is now!

>>19982716
>but authoritarianism will lose
so, Europe in general is going to lose?
Who is going to win them?

>>19982716
Europe has become authoritarian thanks to the Covid excuse. I would openly declare to my shithead leaders that I'd rather have russians take over the place if it's gonna help them getting their fucking shit together. The West jerked itself off on "democracy", chanting how it's all about that, but in the last few years The West (or at least my country, Italy, that's for sure) has been regressing hard on that front. Without democracy The West is no more and might as well get conquered by Russia. After all, all that would accomplish would changing one authoritarian regime with another, who would care? I'm not gonna risk getting rekt by Ivan just so these cocksucking politicians can keep acting their greedy incompetent corrupt bully selves. Did you know they denied italians to even have a referendum on euthanasia just a few days ago? Not a stretch, considering they already denied everyone the right to decide over their own body what with these mandatory vaccinations. Fuck these sons of whores, I hope Ivan comes and puts them against the wall, prepotent fucks
>inb4 ivan will be even worse
Maybe, but I just want to see these pieces of subhuman shit dead

>>19982726
ah yes, i welcome the opportunity to die in the mud for elites again. much better than seeing gays on tv, what a relief

>>19982683
* history is

>Russia attacks Ukraine
NOOOOO what are you doing you Nazis, pray for peace
>US bombs Iraqi citizens and Israel bombs Lebanon and Syria
thanks for your service

>>19984504
i think you're confused a bit about the demographics here. the same people that wanted to "put a boot up the ass" of sand people they've never heard of before and couldn't locate on a map, are the ones that now think Putin is "based" for invading a 98% white 70% orthodox country. they have actually been quite consistent in their retardation. with the caveat being that they want to be able to criticize biden both for not being tough enough with russia and simultaneously for not doing whatever putin says.

>>19984374
>Europe has become authoritarian thanks to the Covid excuse.
tl: I live in America and get all my news from 4chan and reddit.

>Fukuyama meant that nothing would ever happen again haha something’s happening he got BTFOOO’d!! xD

Fukuyama’s central claim is that thymos, defined as the individual desire for recognition, is the prime mover of history and most fully realized in the liberal democratic regime of rights, pluralism, limited government, etc. If Fukuyama is wrong, then the entire enlightenment project is thrown into question. I think the book is impeccably argued unless you consider that he and the architects of liberal democracy are gravely mistaken about what motivates people and thus historical events (spoiler: they are).

Either way, if you actually read the book, he offers rationalizations at the end for everything his critics have since tried to use against him. Putin, for example, can be understood in Fukuyama’s thinking as the sort megalothymotic leader the American system was set up to constrain because he threatens historical progress.

>>19982961
I’ve come to believe the future he described is the worst possible outcome.

>>19982683
>Liberalism winning
>Durka durkaism winning
>Authoritarians winning

Lol, no. Capitalist countries btfo authoritarian ones when it comes to tech development, but that only goes so far. Universities act as giant sort machines for mating where heavily G loaded tests effect who fucks who, and all the high IQ elites pool into these at peak breeding years.

Gene editing is already here.

Elite rule is the future and it won't be by oligarchs with lol wealth necissarily or by some stupid ethnonationalist Trumpshit.

In a century, where an elite kid has numerous gene mods, where the average transhuman is 6'8, with myostatin mutations that make them twice as strong as a comperable homosapiens, has red blood cells that hold more oxygen, has a mean IQ of 145+, and likely has early cybernetic implants to help their cognitive functions, what are plebs going to do? Base genetics will still matter, but selection and modification will matter more.

Owning AI will mean more than owning labor, plebs will become less and less economically relevant.

It might take a while, but in 2300, when post-humans are 8'4 and can shrug off .50 cal around due to their armored chassis, I doubt radical Islam or pleb based race shit will exist at all.

The only war worth fighting will be post-humans versus independent AI.

>>19984773
Put down the sci-fi novels.

>>19984759
Did he predict an autocratic state like Russia would do such a rash move and that the liberal hegemon would do nothing about it?

>>19984773
Fukuyama's problem wasn't following Hegel, it was not recognizing that the dialectical advanced forever, towards the Absolute. He does now concede that transhumanism is probably the next step at least.

There is strong evidence for the anthropic principal (see Wheeler, also It from Bit). The universe has exact laws that produce self replicating phenomena and life that increases in complexity over time. Natural selection pushes for ever higher levels of fractal recurrence of information, from information about the enviornment in DNA, to information encoded in nervous systems, to language and programing languages.

And then recursion works downward, top down causality. Which is why particles not seen since the seconds after the Big Bang emerge again in man's particle accelerators.

There is no escape. There is an inevitable pattern of information recursion on the lines of fractal geometries. The universe is a continuing cycle of reification. You see this in modern physics and information realism, but it's in Hegel as well.

We're not getting off this ride until their are conciousness powered by multiple Dyson Spheres with the mass of several suns. Sentience feasting on quasars to power its computation. Into absolute being recognized Its self in Absolute otherness. Until the phase space of being contemplates itself. Until the wrath of Boehme's Anger Well is exhausted in God's know of Itself. In a word, the attainment of the Absolute.

>>19984795
>>19984773
lol, there is no difference between super high IQ shit like the holographic principal and schizophrenia

don't know if hegel is a meme or if when you get to smart you just sound schizo but I do know high end physics YouTubes sound like schizo shit

>>19984790
some sci-fi shit is coming true though. a few companies write jpegs and text files to DNA on chemical printers. they said a hard drive they had could store 165,000 gigabytes in a cubic millimeter which is like having a thumb drive with more space than a huge server. then you could conceivably hack said data with actual viruses.

>>19984792
An autocratic state attacking another country has nothing to do with his thesis whatsoever. If it did, he would have thrown out his manuscript after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990. Please read the book.

>>19984136
The most powerful force in the world is comfort. Thou that offers the most wins

>>19982716
liberal democracy is already resorting to authoritarian means to maintain itself. it's been two years of supposedly democratic governments ruling by emergency decree

>>19984662
did anyone in europe get to vote on their vaxx passports and face masks?

>>19985288
Yes, that's how representative democracy works.

>>19985281
There is no such thing as a dichotomy between democracy and authoritarianism. That itself is a liberal myth. Liberalism is just as totalitarian as any other form of modern governance.

>>19985288
No, because we aren't allowed to vote on anything than who's going to ignore us and wastes our taxes for the next four or so years. Switzerland excluded.

>>19984033
Unlike you I’m not afraid. If you’re not willing to die for something, you can accomplish nothing in history, and THEREBY that status quo you sketched out will remain

Why can't a merciful God just end this world in a ball of fire already. Please let the nukes fly and history really end

>>19985604
You need something to die for, though. Big companies or countries/people that have nothing to do with you are bad reasons to fight. At this point, I'm not even sure I want to fight for my own country, because it showed such severe disregard for its own people that it can go fuck itself.
I'd fight for my loved ones and for those I care for, though. Anything bigger got ruined over the past years.

>>19984103
>Good luck convincing anyone raised on the internet to stop believing in human rights, equality, democracy, liberation, etc.
bro, you're on /lit/ you shouldn't embarrass yourself like this. The average person has ALWAYS believed in those humanitarian ideals. You don't think Roman slaves wanted equality when Spartacus went madman?

It's not about what the average sheeple masses believe, it's about what the Elites believe. We need a top down change, not a bottom up

>>19985604
You guys act like war used to be noble. You either got conscripted by whatever warlord conquered your village or fought over clay for a king that would spit on you. The past was corrupt like the present, read a book.

>>19984874
>Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait
Niether Saddam nor Kuwait had Big Mac, therefore your thesis is wrong. You literally do not understand what Neoliberal shills like Fukuyama believe. What's happening between Russia and Ukraine now, two states which have Big Mac, is something these Liberal idiots would have never imagined

>>19985663
I want to live though ;-;

>>19984136
meh. So far it's not even approaching 1970's level worldwide instability. I predict we'll see another golden age of cult formation this decade. You're already seeing it in the schizo posting/ conspiracy believing contingent.

>>19985832
Armies before the 19th century were largely voluntary in europe

>>19985862
>it's schizophrenic to believe powerful people sometimes conspire with each other
How did this become a mainstream belief

>>19985837
Fukuyama has never made a claim of that sort.

>>19985875
mass media messaging devised by the government

>>19982683
if the United States successfully gets involved and wins; it’s going be a fluoride purgatory for decades to come.

>>19985837
Oh look, another Fukuyama critic who hasn’t read anything from The End of History except for the title. Might be worth trying to understand what he’s actually saying before calling him an idiot. No other contemporary political theorist has been so misrepresented by pseuds. You’re humiliating yourself, anon.

>>19982683
What were Europe's dreams and how were they shattered?

My favorite thing about the Fukuyama discussion that inevitably follows some event happening is that all the pseuds who only pretend to read books out themselves.

>>19984563
Delusional.

>>19986136
They’re going to destabilise Russia for the foreseeable future and we’ll probably see then arm the “Nazis” in Ukraine.

>>19986349
Eternal peace would be my guess.
Really, I think after WW2 most of contintental Europe with the honorary exception of France got kind of tired of war. We've seen our share of it for the past centuries, at one point, you don't feel it any more.

>>19986136
If we cant win against jungle gooks and desert people idk howd we fair against an actual army.

>>19984662
Cope.