/lit/ - Literature

>>19974876
No, but you can experience these dubs.

>>19974883
Pathetic.

forms don't exist

>>19974888

>>19974888
Ho lee fuk

>>19974876
Any books about this? I love this theme. I've already read The Recognitions and Moby Dick.

>>19975063
The Gospel of St John

>>19974888
Impressive, very based.

>>19975063
>Moby Dick.
how is this related

>>19975115
it's the main conflict of Moby Dick that neither Ahab nor Ishmael can strike through the pasteboard mask of reality

>>19975135
im reading moby dick rn for a uni class.

can you post any links related to this? my professor has alluded to some higher truth in moby dick but I haven't seen it yet. I am at the Quarter Deck currently.

>>19975141
i never really read a lot of articles on Moby Dick but i did listen to some parts of Hubert Dreyfus's lectures on it and I found it pretty interesting, even if I don't fully agree with some of his takes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq5LDSZDr2E

the Quarter Deck is the first chapter where Ahab makes it clear what his aims are, pay attention to that speech he gives where he starts with "All visible objects are pasteboard masks", it's one of the most important parts of the book as it clearly explains where Ahab's issue really lies, and to an extent, where Ishmael's issue lies as well. Both characters cope with this in very different ways though as you will see. you've already caught a glimpse of it in the early chapters with how Ishmael accepted Queequeg but Ishmael tends to take an optimistic agnosticism through it all whereas Ahab literally cannot cope without attempting to strike through the mask. This theme will become more apparent the more you read though.

>can't experience pussy in the material realm
>can't experience pussy in the platonic realm

it's over

>>19974905
Santa Claus doesn't exist

Form is emptiness
Emptiness is form

Are posts here retarded?
Are there posts here that are not retarded?
Are there posts here that are retarded AND not retarded?
Are there posts here that are neither retarded nor not retarded?

Clearly this shitpost has enlightened you onto the layers and insincerity of all categories. Therefore I say unto you meme magicians, as above so below. The world when it is and isn't and you say it is and isn't you will sense a strange energy of your perfect capture and thus be raptured in its paradox. When you say it neither is nor is not you will emptied by the many layers of negation. When your doubts are one with the world's uncertainties rather than your own short comings, then you will come to the pinnacle of the limits of forms and non form intermediates as well as the indeterminal knots in between and emptiness thereabout and therein.

I sense Bioshock Infinite had a cool quantum physics storyline to it but that it didn't really hit any memorable nerve. Just huh whoa teleportation and time shifts. IRL though outside commercial constraints and in the sphere of truly free creativity and internet search and world research independent of online these freaking frogs did take us through an amazing adventure through the great Ancient Egypt meme war psychic Shia LeBouf battles of 2016.
I think we occupy a space and time with no one but past avatars who exited the fourth wall of being and meme like we did through the sheer superstitious tenacity of this hivemind website surf.

>>19975247
>The world when it is and isn't and you say it is and isn't
>When you say it neither is nor is not you will
i know you're bound by language limitations but this sort of sentence structure always annoys me

>>19975295
Mandala diagrams are better and so are Norse holy knots. The four fold flowers in 3D really get the gears turning. The Mobius strip is on its way to becoming the Tibetan endless knot.

>>19975301
Better yet analytical logic statements but I haven't done the course work to get to that level of precise understanding yet.
Category Theory class is on my list.

>>19975218
Pussy does not matter. Merely pussy matters.

>>19975295
Once you work with functions that network beyond 1:1 input output then you see the epistemic end of knowable dependent independent relationships. Many queries bring about factorial messes with BigO(n) and BigO(n+1) etc... Chicken and egg? Cause and effect? Dimensionality overwhelms this. How did we get here? It would take endless analysis and intelligence gathering to truly answer that and it would cost the current material universe more brainpower than it could ever have...unless? Unless unless? Hmm. My butt hurts. Aha! Something I DO KNOW RIGHT NOW!
This works in markets when I know you don't know I know that you... These epistemic battles of will are won with dependent origination leveraging networks of parallel process Calc3 crossing physics AI geeks on New York hardware. I am their six sigma disciple-san.

>>19974876
smoke dmt

I am sure that there is nothing to be sure about...IN THIS CASE!
>Bitch slaps Socrates

>>19975537
Are you sure about that?

Plato failed to imagine the abilities of modern science with perfect math and machine and most pliable and stable molecule, to machine some ultra smooth metal sphere that is so close to perfection it may as well be considered ideal, heck even the average brand new bowling ball is sexy af

>>19975694
>to machine some ultra smooth metal sphere that is so close to perfection it may as well be considered ideal, heck even the average brand new bowling ball is sexy af
> The Form of the sphere is an individual sphere in the world, we just haven't built it yet.
Holy shit you fucking retard.

>>19975694
kek, youre completely missing the point. The concept of ideal or form is not an engineering problem. The point is there are these perfect forms of things that guide our intuition, for example why do people intuitively grasp circles and squares versus 27-sided irregular polygons? Its because circles and squares are more perfect.

can someone tell me how platonic forms relate to the allegory of cave? I thought these forms could be applied to every single object which already exists in its pure form but the prison of our body doesn't allow our consciousness to experience the object in its totality, akin to shadows in the cave.
Seems like I got it all wrong.

Just pick up a book on math. Abstract algebra is cool, but I’m sure there are even more interesting examples.
>but math is for nerds!
If you do not enjoy mathematics you aren’t human.

>>19975985
you can experience the forms through the intellect or soul, not the senses

>>19975973
>Its because circles and squares are more perfect.
No, its because the pathways of intentional acts necessary in order to bring about those essences in perception is shorter and much easier to travel.

>>19976004
which is to say they are more perfect

>>19975973
No, Plato was speaking on that with 1 or ""0""" dimensional mathematics we can understand the idea of a perfect sphere and that all material attempts at sphereness are aiming for that abstract mathamatical perfection, but a perfect """sphere""" can't be physically made because atoms move and shake and hie do you control arc/curve of this or that micron section of atoms to ensure the whole is most perfectly infinitesimally surfacelly spherical

>>19974888

>>19976105
still not perfect though because it can go out of existence. the whole "we can create a perfectly straight line therefore Plato is wrong" is the most pseud thing thats ever happened in philosophy.

>>19976015
>which is to say they are more perfect
No, just that they are more accessible.

>>19974876
>>tfw ywn experience an object in its purest form

The intuition of space is purely objective, but you already knew that deep inside.

>>19974905
Space and time exist, and they are both forms.

>>19976142
if by "accessible" you mean what platonic philosophers call "perfect", then yes you are correct. That is why perfect things like points and lines where the foundation for math for so long.

>>19976105
This gets iffy however when considerd the ideal form of cats, dogs, trees and man.

What is the ideal form if man? Well most simply: 2 legs, 2 arms, hands, feet, eyes ears mouth penis etc.

But surely there are greater distinctions between more and less ideal of that most simplist form?

And some jacked body builder, but then there is one next to him with a millimeter bigger bicep where as this one has a millimeter bigger calf, where as this other one has a millimeter bigger penis.

And what the heck could the ideal form of tree be? Roots, trunk, leaves, fruit? But which is most ideal? The ideal apple tree or the ideal orange tree?

These are the kinds of questions that motivated God to create the universe, to grapple with the lack of certain singularity of form of an ideal, the possible multiplicity of an ideal, form.

Imagine before the universe existed coming up with the idea for a tree, the absolute creative gall.

>>19974876
>ywn experience an object in its purest form
Forms dont exist and can only be experienced via objects, maybe?

Reality is a push and pull between material and abstract, maybe?

>>19974888
Mogged

>>19974876
>people on this board unironically entertain this baseless nonsense yet call christcucks schizos

>>19976302
The ideal or idea of a tree is dependent on the idea of roots and trunk, maybe of branches. Is it also unavoidably tethered to the idea of soil and rain and CO2 and sunlight?

Trees can be grown hydroponically.

A child can draw the form of tree on paper

The idea of a tree can theoretically be had prior to the mechanics of how to turn the idea into reality

But any concievable idea of a tree, realistic, would require some physical means of bringing about. Before thoughts or seed and soil rain and light, before thoughts of carbon and elements, material could have been fashioned with stringy parts on the bottom, a sturdy simple center, and stringy parts on top.

Likewise with the form of man or animal. But how to create a physical material energetic realm in which these ideas and forms could self propellingly come about?

>>19976549
>christcucks
Is it possible Christ is an ad hoc (dont even know what that means but seems like it could possibly be right) canonization of an ideal philosopher king (sans the deep shoe your work tedious philosophy but) with just the conclusions of all possible moral and societal phloosohy present and presiding?

>>19974876
just learned a woman made a yogurt from a culture of her vaginal flora
>tfw ywn have a woman dom you by making you eat her pussy yogurt every day

>>19975247
This post is crazy I don't even grasp its its

>>19976140
You didn't get what I said, I was saying the reason Plato said we can only approximate the ideal forms is because, we only have matter to work with I making ideal forms, and as ideal as the matter is and can be, on the microest level it is lacking perfection.

As much as we can look at the best machined metal ball, 100,000 idenrical ball bearings, look like perfect spheres, I think they are good enough to be ideal, but if you zoom in you will see atoms shaking that throws off the stable timeless idealness. And then 100,000 electrons and quarks and atoms of here, all ideal quarks with no difference between them?

I initially tossed in the idea of 1 or 0 dimensional mathematics, due to when talking and considering about these things, a point, a line of points, things like the nature of the point must be glossed over, a 1d point, with no extension but definite existence.

Or how to bend the curve and arc to make a perfect mathamatical circle, using lineness, this is why infinities and decimals get involved. Because you are trying to make an ideal non object of quanta and qualities, in space, graphical x y z (w if you want to consider the time required to bend the line into perfect curve) space, and you are defining points and lines as having no dimension or extension but existing in this space, and so when you bend them to curve, in this ideal space the calculation freaks out to infintesimals.

If you try to make your 2 dimensional line avoid this tricky problem of nonmaterial "unavoidable conceptionally materiality", by what making it's supposed lack of thinness thinner and thinner you don't get any closer to easing the trouble of the perfect circle curve, before diminishing your line completely out of existence so you?

>>19976150
I know my own understanding but I am curious to witness someone who seems to claim they know explain: define time, what is time? Describe the form of time

>>19976206
Also are the considered perfect if anything, because those shapes, understanding them, the parts of them, can be used to make all other possible shapes?

>>19976581
>The idea of a tree can theoretically be had prior to the mechanics of how to turn the idea into reality
But this brings into question, can a purely unique inspired original thought come purely out of nowhere escaping causality. Surely God would have to have had some understanding of cylinder, and stringynees, to put them together. How little input is required for an intelect to fasten how much unique output.

Did God know how many different insects on earth would appear, did they run that many tests and simulations on the elemental and cosmological inputs? Or could they just have been aware "these elements when interacted with light and water and these elements, could become self propagating element machines?

Infinite regression, must these be something like light in Gods realm, but these be something like mind, like intellect.

If there is no God... God help us all.

If God doesn't exist, and the universe is just unfathomably perfectly oreintated for everything we know of human life and interesting excellent achievement to come about and we all happen to be lucky enough for even a second to grasp any of this, taste or see or smell anything good for a second if divine cosmic chance, then hats off to whatever material and energy is, take me to youe leader, I shall see you down the line, may the glorious sun consume me and spit me out into some other Galaxy next time, thank you for loaning me these fancy atoms, universe, thank you for being me and letting me be me and you, thank you for being so perfectly ordered and stable, thank you for being so awe inspiring, hot and cool, thank you for letting me know the best of art and life, the very best of being I could achieve, thank you for providing and setting to be my self and know the glories of mankind, thank you for the honor and privledge of walking and eating of your substance, if taking part in the maajesty if society and history, of knowing the highest possible ideas and ideals, I feeling the highest possible extasys and joys, of knowing the heights and not knowing the heights of beauty and love, but knowing the delirious exhileration of their heightlessness, thank you, become me universe, let me become you, let me possess and reflect your supreme genius and grandeur, let me be as your son, raise me as your child, let me love you, please love me, I love you

Matter can never match the ideal form because it is imperfect by nature of being material.
How do you people not understand this?

>>19974876
Universals are lame. Become a nominalist trope chad.

>>19975243
santa claus is clearly a form

>>19975295
>this sort of sentence structure always annoys me
at first i loved them, then as i read them more and more they start to anoy me, but now i'm starting to see them in a different light and apreciate them again

>>19974888
holy FUCK, the daemon of socrates blesses this thread!

>>19976150
>Space and time exist
I'm nor trying to be facetious but in what sense do space and time exist?

>>19974876
>tfw this thread, simply making an observation about plato, gets 56 replies when my plato thread with real questions gets like 10
yep im seething

>>19978189
I asked someone to define time here
>>19977328
They didn't respond.

But space: is the fact that objects of 3 dimensions can exist and move.

The area of proximity they move in relation to one another is called Space.

Time as a ruler of measurement is a continual consistently intervalic beat.

It is also a measurement of motion, the motion of quantity of sand in an hourglass , the motion of a metronome, the motion of the earth orbiting the sun, the motion of an atom losing its grip on stability. Duration. 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 and 1 and 2

>>19978277
Add your real questions here sport, hop on board bud there's plenty of room in here for you questions pal

>>19978287
its too late.

>>19974883
>>19974888
this mayyyy or may not be a samefag.

>>19978472
Why now I'm curios ask your questions

>>19974876
damn just imagine the purest form of a big pair of milkers.
>>19974888
trips confirm

>>19978866
why is OP such a flaming FAGGOT

>>19977328
>>19978189

Here's a relevant passage by Kant on space and time as forms of all possible experience

>By means of the external sense (a property of the mind), we represent to ourselves objects as without us, and these all in space. Herein alone are their shape, dimensions, and relations to each other determined or determinable. The internal sense, by means of which the mind contemplates itself or its internal state, gives, indeed, no intuition of the soul as an object; yet there is nevertheless a determinate form, under which alone the contemplation of our internal state is possible, so that all which relates to the inward determinations of the mind is represented in relations of time. Of time we cannot have any external intuition, any more than we can have an internal intuition of space.

>>19975247
Are you a strange loop?

>>19974876
God damn deep topics like this are why this board is so awesome

>>19977554
What are some good nominalist arguments against platonism?
My intuition leads me towards the denial of universals but I lack the philosophical maturity to express it coherently.

>>19979995
>trusting your intuition
You know, your conscious mind is actually interrupting and making shit up 90% of the time

>>19980096
Doesn't matter, I trust my pure intuition more than anything else.

>>19979978
i've seen deeper topics on /a/
/lit/ is genuinely full of fucking idiots

When the imaginational mind envisions a perfect circle, what is the material this circle is made out of?

When the mind sees in it's minds eye, a perfect circle, what is the materiality of what it is seeing?

>>19980134
Please re-read the disclaimer

>>19980555
Unobtainium

>>19975247
/brokenbot gazed over a world emptied by many layers of negation. The uncertainty of it was a bit like a fat man in the morning of the world when they could read it was the first time since you could have been better care of by the likes of this article. Probably the most likely explanation of it was the idea that the history of the world when they could read it was a bit like a fat kid.

Gravity is at least partially the result of the motion of the Earth (and Sun): what evidence is there that if the Earth was motionless (not stopping short into motionlessness, but just existed motionless with things on its surface) all the loose things on its surface wouldn't just fall off?

Without gravity, a biased cardinality of space? Or there is only falling, due to gravity?

There is only fast motion due to the BigBang?

Light is weird, where as non light takes energy to move; light yes takes energy to move but cannot help moving or stopping once it starts, and the slightest movement moves it.

Another mind fuck, if space is infinite, this is mind fucking fucking blowing fuck. If the edge of the universe if you kept traveling away from the universe at light speed for infinite light years there would be no end to the distance you travel. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

>>19982125
What Is even the meaning of cold??
Only the absense of heat/energy?

Cold 'is not even a thing or concept? There is only a scale of heat and empty space? True pure empty space void of all energy, is "" infinitely """"cold""""" , or just....purely nothingness, which is just the dissipating power to energy, we are beings founded on energy and matter.

Consider the tundra, what a lack of light does to certain material.

I am encouraged to believe in God no matter how much I may aire toward doubt, for the established system of light and gravity is so uniform, stable, all pervasive, intertwined, dependable, functional, productive, nessecary for a spinning ball of 100 so elements and a trillion or so chemicals to do all it's things, it is so unsloppy, it is so high def, be I don't even believe in the physical reality of all pervasive neatly packaged field theory, which would just force my icing cherry covered cake hand.

I resist believing in the sloppy thinking rushed magical view point ignorance projecting spooky theories of quantum mechanics because they would force the belief in God and I cannot be sure they are not part of a conspircy to want that.

What the fuck is all this, what the fuck, how is this possible, how could a single electron and quark exist let alone a quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion, all perfectly equal existing in this galaxy and the next, all with the flawlessly functioning light system, that does and can do all it can do, and the atoms and elements with the energy of nukes, just so happen to not explode every time we walk, but they happen to be able to be turned into the Parthenon, and the large hadron collider, and ice cream, and a puppy, and Doritos, and orgasm, and tennis, and pizza, and babes, and surfing, and gemstones, and Ferraris, and picasso, and hamburgers, and mozart, and coke, and submarines, and starfish, and baseball, and mash potatoes and gravy... What the fuck God just tell us what's the deal, something, someone, a heads up, a certainty, an understanding, a knowing, a comfort, a home, a belonging, an ease, a relation, an absolutely the highest everything

>>19982125
What Is even the meaning of cold??
Only the absense of heat/energy?

Cold 'is not even a thing or concept? There is only a scale of heat and empty space? True pure empty space void of all energy, is "" infinitely """"cold""""" , or just....purely nothingness, which is just the dissipating power to energy, we are beings founded on energy and matter.

Consider the tundra, what a lack of light does to certain material.

I am encouraged to believe in God no matter how much I may aire toward doubt, for the established system of light and gravity is so uniform, stable, all pervasive, intertwined, dependable, functional, productive, nessecary for a spinning ball of 100 so elements and a trillion or so chemicals to do all it's things, it is so unsloppy, it is so high def, be I don't even believe in the physical reality of all pervasive neatly packaged field theory, which would just force my icing cherry covered cake hand.

I resist believing in the sloppy thinking rushed magical view point ignorance projecting spooky theories of quantum mechanics because they would force the belief in God and I cannot be sure they are not part of a conspircy to want that.

What the fuck is all this, what the fuck, how is this possible, how could a single electron and quark exist let alone a quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion, all perfectly equal existing in this galaxy and the next, all with the flawlessly functioning light system, that does and can do all it can do, and the atoms and elements with the energy of nukes, just so happen to not explode every time we walk, but they happen to be able to be turned into the Parthenon, and the large hadron collider, and ice cream, and a puppy, and Doritos, and orgasm, and tennis, and pizza, and babes, and surfing, and gemstones, and Ferraris, and picasso, and hamburgers, and mozart, and coke, and submarines, and starfish, and baseball, and mash potatoes and gravy... What the fuck God just tell us what's the deal, something, someone, a heads up, a certainty, an understanding, a knowing, a comfort, a home, a belonging, an ease, a relation, an absolutely the highest everything

>>19974888

>>19974888

The universe is metaphor turned into matter, idea turned to material, concept made manifest; a man/woman is made in the universes image; they perform the role of a solar system, coming together as the singularity Sun, their fruitful offspring follow, orbit them, they make them their world, the parents understand Gods creative urge and love, in giving the gift of life, hopefully to an earth, which blossoms lively. The parental sacrifice, of radiating ones energy ever outward to their generated offspring, in the hopes their child might develop civilization unto itself.

>>19982806
Got any proof of that?

Magnetism? Electromagnetism? Where is the fundamental science physical mechanical reality realistic reverse engineered blueprint of how magnetism is occuring? Has progress been made in the imagery of most micro parts and causal action which produce the phenomenal effect?

>>19984301
And I don't wanna talk to no scientist
Muthafuckas always lyin, and gettin me pissed

>>19984301
What are the fundamental main sources of light besides stars?

One must say galaxy systems, because stars do not exist as they do without galaxy systems? Is that so?

Are there major sources of light/em radiation outside galaxies?

The theory that there exists a ""field"" in and of reality that extends from one north south east west of the universe to the other, just waiting for an electron to be accelerated over here so that it may do the wave over there.

Of course it makes sense on face value for gravity medium this must be the case, however shockingly unfathomable, and materially unpierceable the gravity substance medium field is composed of and constituentated, as mentioned gravity medium being inescapable due to even em radiation unable to avoid it's curves, so certainly adds intrigue, is gravity medium the one true physical space ocean field, and whatever light is rides along it's tracks, or em radiation is another quality of the gravity space medium, as electro is another quality of magnetico and or vice versa, as color and radio are yet another quality, might all these qualities be qualities of a more fundental existant, the warpable all pervasive gravity space medium

>>19984879
Who on earth has the clearest most pristine most valid conception envision comprehension and understanding of the most fundamental real reality existence of the existence and mechanics of charge, em radiation, and magnetism? There must be one human above all that sees the finest possible actual Truth most clearly, and knows on the most fundamental of levels how magnetism physically mechanically occurs. Who is this person, where is their detailed blueprint that would make God proud of his child for completely understanding his wonders?

>>19984901
Your kike book sucks

>>19986010
Explain? What does there nessecarily existing on earth a single human that above all others has the most clearest possible visionary understanding of the fundamental mechanics of magnetism, electromagnetism, have anything to do with a Jewish book? Other than the fact Jews may have written about the fundamental physics involved with magnetism?

Humans are cells; Instituitions, corporations are multi cellular organisms

>>19974888
the purest form of mogging

>>19974888
On the left

>>19974883
On the right

>>19980134
It's significantly better than /his/ though.

>>19974876
He doesn't know Plato wasn't serious

>>19986044
>Humans are cells; Instituitions, corporations are multi cellular organisms
Actually, nations are multi cellular organisms, institutions and corporations are organs and biological machines that keep the body politik alive

>>19986035
When spelling necessarily think "one collar, two sleeves", like a t-shirt
I didn't read the rest

>>19986267
>necessarily
Sss makes the ssss sound more commonly and easier then ccc

Ness a seraly

My constituition refuses to be illogical, irrational, or unreasonable

>>19986591
>>19986267
Ness a ceraly

Can also work because cereal and celery.

But for the largest part nessss is vastly more common to make that sound then neccccccc

>>19986035
It's written in Hebrew which is unholy lies TM
Getting morals from Jews is like getting lifting advice from fat couch potatoes or chastity from whores

>>19986843
Don Quijote got chastity from whores

>>19974876
you already experienced them before you were born. that was like a third of his argument. this is probably why none of you have friends, you don't understand platonics.

>>19986267
If you can phonetically sound out a word in a conversation and it is a rarity for words to be spelled wrong you can let it slide and speak on the content. Nessecerily, nesercerely, nessaseraly, nessacellary

>>19979978
> 147 average IQ.
Doubt.jpg

>>19979978
>/fit/
>High IQ board
Heh now I know this is fake gaylord

>>19975247
to form
the norm
is not
to conform
but that
abhor

>>19986229
>Actually, nations are multi cellular organisms, institutions and corporations are organs and biological machines that keep the body politik alive
The heart of the nation body is the law and justice system. The stomach is the farmers and food industry. The brain, neurons, is all the nerds. The muscle is all the laborers. Police and military the immune system. The mouth is writers and singers. Arts, movies, tv, the imagination and dreams. The sex industry as the genitals of the nation animal. Nah nah this is all silly, I think it is interesting point about Instituitions to exist require certain types of individuals dedicate themselves to certain tasks repetitively to emerge a greater than sum of parts entity. But there is no real gotcha point to this attempted nation as a whole being a living a entity, though actually there is, maybe just not the way I put it

>>19986968
Please remember it is poor form to argue against scientific fact.

>>19987298
Schools, libraries, teachers: the DNA which educates the cells on what to become; doctors hospitals are the immune system, part of it, healing,

>>19987298
The eyes are the media, news

>>19988712
The colon is garbage and santiation department

National parks are the lungs,

>>19974888
You went too hard on him. Look at what you've done.