/lit/ - Literature

why?

>>19945519
Because as I grow in knowledge of God, my faith becomes stronger. Faith helps us to please God ! (Hebrews 11:1, 6)

are you the french guy? Happy birthday

>>19945516
Where do you live?

How could you spend three decades studying one book? Do you have a learning disability?

>>19945516
What's your biggest vice, after pride?

Why is it not better that there not be nothing instead of humanity

>>19945535
It's not my birthday and I don't celebrate birthdays but thanks for the thought :)


>>19945539
France !

>>19945516
My girlfriend started reading the Bible being raised secular and all she could think about was how horrible it was that God was committing all those atrocities in Genesis and Exodus, demanding praise, getting hissy fits, and all the stuff I'm sure you know. How would you explain to her that that's not what's going on? That the God of the Bible is not just a cartoonishly evil character?

>>19945516
Why was martin luther (not the nigger) right about everything including sola fide?

>>19945551
Wait until she gets to the foreskins

Are you married?
What is your favourite passage?

>>19945554
Foreskins is in Genesis, genius.

>>19945557
He didn't say she finished genesis, nigger

>>19945546
God does not leave us in the dark, he helps us through his word to distinguish between what is true and what is false.

That is why God encourages us again and again to keep studying his word.

You're not supposed to interpret the Bible based on your assumptions.

The Bible forces you to keep reading and then interpret each part IN LIGHT OF THE OTHERS.

This dense way of writing forces you to slow down and then read carefully, embarking on this interactive discovery process through the whole biblical narrative over a LIFETIME of reading and re-reading.

In Psalm 1, we read about the ideal Bible reader. It’s someone who meditates on the Scriptures day and night. In Hebrew, the word “meditate” means literally to mutter or speak quietly.

The idea is that every day for the rest of your life you slowly, quietly read the Bible out loud to yourself and then go talk about it with your friends, pondering the puzzles, making connections, and discovering what it all means.

And as you let the Bible interpret itself, something remarkable happens

The Bible starts to read you !

Because ultimately the writers of the Bible want you to adopt this story as your story, applying God's counsels into your life. And doing this will draw you close to our Creator (James 4:8)

That's why we help people study the Bible so they can understand what it really teaches !

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/request-a-visit/video-why-study-the-bible/

>>19945549
Because life is a gift !

>>19945548
I'd say greed maybe

>>19945550
What do you think about the African tribes moving to France?

>>19945549
Because God created people whom He formed for Himself that they might declare His praise! Isaiah 43:21

Yet I've never read the Bible... Not that special after all.

>>19945564
>atrocities he commits in genesis and exodus
>genesis and exodus
why the fuck would you start exodus if you haven't finished genesis

>>19945566
>I'd say greed maybe

Why hasn't diligent study of the word of God purged you of these base sins after 30 years?

>>19945566
It's not that dense. You can clean additional meaning from and text if you read it over and over, even meanings not intended by the author that you make up yourself. What you describe is like a gateway to schizophrenia.

>>19945551
God always has a good reason to act like he does

God's actions are always based on love (1 John 4:8)

>>19945555
I'm not married
My favorite passage is Revelation 21:4 about life in paradise which is God's most beautiful promise :)

>>19945554
>>19945557
>>19945564
Circumcision was a physical sign of the covenant between God and Abraham's descendants as his Chosen People

>>19945580
> clean
I meant glean

>>19945582
dude if you just quote the bible to justify the bible that's an argument that doesn't work unless you're already a believer
but whatever

They will have it, that some five or fix thousand years ago, all that is since come to pass, was then unchangeably decreed. They lay down the way in which the Heavens and the Earth were Created ; and tell you, that Man was made of the Dust of the Earth, and the Woman out of one of his Ribs, as if God had not made her of the same Stuff ; that a Serpent tempted this Man in a Garden of Fruit- Trees to eat of an Apple, which was the occasion that the Great Spirit put his own Son to Death, on purpose to save all men. If I would say that these advances have a greater appearance of fabulousness than of truth, you would close upon me with Reasons fetch'd from your Bible : But according to your own words, this Scripture of yours had not always a Being ; the invention of it bears the date of some three thousand years ago ; and 'twas not Printed till within these four or five Centuries. Now, considering the divers events that come round in the course of several Ages, one must certainly be very credulous in giving credit to so many idle Stories as are huddled up in that great Book that the Christians would have us to believe. I have seen some of the Books that the Jesuits Writ of our Country ; and those who knew how to read 'em, explain'd to me the sense of 'em in the Language that I speak ; but I found they contain'd an infinity of Lyes and Fictions heap'd up one above another. Now, if we see with our eyes that Lyes are in Print, and that things are not represented in Paper as they really are ; how can you press me to believe the Sincerity of your Bible that was Writ so many Ages ago, and Translated out of several Languages by ignorant Men that could not reach the just Sense, or by Lyars who have alter'd, interpolated, or pared the Words you now read. I could mention several other Objections, which in the end will perhaps influence thee in some measure, to own that I have some reason to confine my Belief to such things as are visible and probable.

>>19945553
Like weeds flourishing in among strangled wheat, the Church of Rome, under its papal ruler, dominated worldly affairs for centuries. (Matt. 13:24-30, 37-43)

As it became more and more a part of the world, the church grew further and further away from first-century Christianity.

Through the centuries “heretical” sects called for reforms within the church, but the church continued to abuse power and amass wealth.

Then, in the 16th century, the Protestant Reformation, a religious revolt, burst forth in all its fury.

Reformers such as Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli and John Calvin attacked the church on various issues: on the sale of indulgences, clerical celibacy and Mariolatry, and the need for the church to return to the original principles of Christianity.

What did such efforts accomplish ?

To be sure, the Reformation accomplished some good things, most notably the translation of the Bible into languages of the common people. The free spirit of the Reformation led to more objective Bible research and an increased understanding of Bible languages.

The Reformation did not, however, mark a return to true worship and doctrine.

Why not ?

The effects of the apostasy had penetrated deep, to the very foundations of Christendom.

Thus, although various Protestant groups broke free from the papal authority of Rome, they carried over some of the basic flaws of the Roman Catholic Church, features that resulted from the abandonment of true Christianity.

For example, although the governing of the Protestant churches varied somewhat, the basic division of the church into a dominating clergy class and a subjugated laity was retained. Also retained were unscriptural doctrines such as the Trinity, the immortal soul, and eternal torment after death.

And like the Roman Church, the Protestant churches continued to be part of the world, being closely involved with the political systems and the elite ruling classes.

>>19945516
Are you a Roman Catholic?. Do you accept the Second Vatican Council?. Do you consider the Popes (the ones on my pic) valid succesors of Peter?.

>>19945582
Circumcision is genital mutilation. It causes trauma in the infant and botched circumcisions can be horrific. There have even been infections and deaths as a result of this bariatric, retarded, and perverted kike practice.

Tis written there, that the first man whom the Great Spirit made with his own Hands, did eat of a forbidden Fruit, for which both he and his Wife were punish'd, as being equally Criminal. Now, let's suppose the Punishment inflicted upon the account of the Apple to be what you will; this poor Man had nothing to complain of, but that the Great Spirit knowing that he would eat of it, should have Created him to be Miserable. But let's consider the case of his Posterity, who according to the Jesuits are involv'd in his Overthrow: Are the Children Blame-worthy for the Gluttony of their Father and their Mother? If a man Murder'd one of our Kings, must the Punishment reach to his whole Generation ; to Fathers, Mothers, Uncles, Cousins, Sisters, Brothers, and all his other Relations? Shall we suppose, therefore, that when the Great Spirit gave this Man a Being, he knew not what he might do after his Creation? But that cannot be. But let's suppose again that all his Posterity were accomplices of the Crime, (which at the same time is an unjust supposition) do's not your Scripture make this Great Spirit to be a Being of such Mercy and Clemency, that his Loving-Kindness to the Human Race leaves all Conception far behind it? Is not he so great and so puissant, that if all the Spirits of men that either are, or have been, or are to come, were united in one Person, 'twould be impossible for that Mighty one to comprehend the least tittle of his Omnipotence? Now, since his goodness and mercy are fo transcendent, can't he by one Word vouchsafe a Pardon to that man and all his defendants ? And since he is so powerful and great, how improbable is it, that such an Incomprehensible Being should turn himself into a Man, and not only live a miserable Life, but die an infamous Death ; in order to expiate the Sin of so mean a Creature, that is as much or more beneath him, as a Flie is beneath the Sun and the Stars ? Where would that infinite Power be then? What use would it be of to him, and what advantage would he make of it ? To my mind, to believe the debating of the Divine Nature, speaks a doubt of the Incomprehensible reach of his Omnipotence, and an extravagant Presumption with respect to our selves.

>>19945588
It's called circular reasoning. It's the crux of all religious arguments and it only works on the profoundly retarded.

is it true? in part or all of it?

The more I sift the pretended Incarnation of Jesus, I find it the less probable. What! To think that this Great and Incomprehensible Being, the Creator of the Earth, of the Seas, and of this vast Firmament, would be capable of debasing himself so far, as to lye nine Months Prisoner in the Bowels of a Woman, and expose himfelf to the miserable Life of his Fellow Sinners, that Writ the Books of your Gospel; to be Beaten, Whip'd, and Crucify'd like an unhappy Wretch ; this, I say, is what can't enter into my thoughts. Tis written, that he came upon the Earth on purpose to die there, and with the same Breath 'tis said that he was afraid to die. This implies a Contradiction two ways. In the first place, if his design was to be Born, in order to die, he ought not to have dreaded death ; for, what is the ground of the fear of death? The dread of death proceeds from this, that one do's not know what will become of 'em when they depart this Life. But he was not unacquainted with the place he was bound for, so that he had no reason to be afraid. You know very well that we and our Wives Poyson our selves frequently, in order to keep one another Company in the Regions of the dead, when one or t'other is snatch'd away. So you see plainly the loss of Life does not scare us, tho' at the fame time, we are not certain what course our Souls will steer. What answer canst thee give me upon this Head ? In a second place ; Since the Son of the Great Spirit was inverted with a Power equal to that of his Father ; he had no occasion to pray his Father to save his Life, in regard that he was able to guard off Death by his own Power ; and that in praying to his Father he pray'd to himfelf. As for my part, my dear Brother, I can't have any notion [103] of what thou wouldeft have me to Conceive.

>>19945597
> bariatric
I meant barbaric

>>19945569
God is self-sufficient, he doesn't need us to praise him.

God made us for the same reason parents make a baby.

Because he loves us and wants us to enjoy life !

>>19945570
>>19945588
Everything God does is good. God is the highest standard of righteousness, no one can claim to know better than the Almighty !

>>19945597
Debunked.

recent studies have shown that circumcision may help prevent kidney and urinary-tract infections, which can be quite dangerous

In one study, uncircumcised boys were 11 times more likely to suffer urinary-tract infections than circumcised boys. The pediatric academy now says that circumcision “has potential medical benefits and advantages.”

While Christians are not bound by the Mosaic law requiring circumcision, the new findings do suggest that the law was of practical benefit to the ancient Israelites who obeyed it !

>>19945611
> urinary tract infections
That sounds dubious, but even if it's true, there are a dozen other medical complications that can be caused by circumcision. It's like setting yourself on fire and saying "people on fire are 11x less likely to freeze to death than purple not on fire"

> kidney infections
Lol... Want to explain the logic for this one? All I can say is a significant portion of studies today are fraudulent, so if something makes no sense then it's probably not true

>>19945593
I am not catholic.

while Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles, or over the church (having primacy)

See Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5

nor is it ever taught in Scripture that the bishop of Rome, or any other bishop, was to have primacy over the church. The Bible doesn't even explicitly record Peter ever being in Rome !

Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11)

>>19945604
Yes

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200711/trust-the-bible/

>>19945516
What did the Bible mean by this:
(KJV John 4) "How is it that thou, being a (((Jew))), askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? [...] (((Jesus))) saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: (((we))) know what (((we))) worship: for salvation is of the (((Jews)))."

>>19945582
>I'm not married
Marry me?

>>19945632
Circumcision protects you from aids

>>19945590
>>19945599
>>19945606
what are you doing

>>19945568
The more people the more opportunities to share the gospels !

>>19945574
Oh you meant me ? I thought you were asking about humanity in general

>>19945516
JWs are retarded. Setting aside the fact that you're all unironically old age creationists, all the failed prophecies, you still got the the whole overlapping generations thing which is the most idiotic cope to have ever been invented.
>n-no g-guys don't leave our religion please, by generation we totally meant "people born in 1914 and people who were born when people born in 1914 were still alive".
It's honestly the most retarded sect of christianity, although you're technically not even christians.

>>19945566
>jw.org
>>19945633
>jw.org
Absolutely fucking based troll. I like how you don't make it too on the nose. You just let people discover for themselves that you're the guy who knocks on their doors while they're eating dinner.

>>19945566
Why are you a JW?

>>19945646
Jesus’ statement implies that the Jewish people had been entrusted with God’s Word, pure worship, and the truth that could lead to salvation. (Romans 3:1, 2)

They were also chosen as the people from whom the Messiah would come, fulfilling God’s promise regarding the “offspring” of Abraham. (Genesis 22:18; Ga 3:16)

When Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman, it was only through the Jews that a person could learn the truth about God and what he required as well as details about the Messiah. Israel was still God’s channel, and any who wished to serve Jehovah had to do so in association with his chosen nation

>>19945650
no thank you :)

>>19945655
I disagree

>>19945651
>what are you doing
I thought you wanted us to ask you anything? Please refute these points.

>>19945651
>Circumcision protects you from aids
Trolling? If not, I'll need to see a source that isn't text in a jpg

>>19945664
Yeah, what I mean is, was Jesus a Jew? I've seen pages and pages of contrived cope on /pol/ explaining how Jesus was some king of the Aryans.

>>19945659
Jesus told his followers to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” (Matthew 28:19, 20)

When he sent out his early disciples, Jesus directed them to go to the homes of the people. (Matthew 10:7, 11-13)

After Jesus’ death, first-century Christians continued to spread their message both “publicly and from house to house.” (Acts 5:42; 20:20)

We follow the example of those early Christians and find that the door-to-door ministry is a good way to reach people ! :)
>>19945660
Among many other things, because I believe the Bible, and what they teach and how they act is what I read in the Bible

>>19945664
>I disagree
There's nothing to disagree, I haven't told a single thing that was wrong.
JWs must be old earth creationists
There's ton of failed prophecies about the end of the world in the JW cult
JW's leader made up the "overlapping generation" concept in order to deal with the fact that the apocalypse isn't coming despite the fact that 108 years have passed since 1914 and they explicitly, repeatedly said that the end of the world was coming within a generation of 1914.
All of this is retarded.

Why is marriage and reproduction encouraged by the Church? Surely, this introduces into the world more people to be misled by evil. I understand why evil exists.

>>19945533
Why do you want to please God?

>>19945692
Shit just got real.
I'm not pleasing anyone who made me ugly and bald.

>>19945672
ok give me a moment to read

>>19945674
In Jesus’ day, a person was considered Jewish if he or she 1) was born to a Jewish mother or 2) had formally converted to the religion of Judaism.

Jews by descent traced their lineage to the ancient Hebrews; Jews by conversion were proselytes from any ethnic background

so yes Jesus was a Jew by descent, and He lived a Jewish life in the first century.

>>19945685
>JWs must be old earth creationists

I have no objection to the scientific assertion that the earth is billions of years old

Genesis 1:1 simply says "in the beginning God created the earth", it gives no indication of when this happened

>There's ton of failed prophecies about the end of the world

We have always used the Bible as the sole authority for our beliefs, so we have adjusted our beliefs as our understanding of the Scriptures has been clarified.

We do not try to hide these changes in our understanding of the Bible. In fact, we record and publish them:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200277174

>JW's leader made up the "overlapping generation" concept in order to deal with the fact that the apocalypse isn't coming despite the fact that 108 years have passed since 1914 and they explicitly, repeatedly said that the end of the world was coming within a generation of 1914

There is a big difference between misguided and immature exegesis of prophecy or scripture and outright false prophecy. The later is an attempt to deceive by contradicting true prophecy and scripture.

>>19945691
It's a personal decision

>>19945692
>>19945699
Because I love him !

He is our heavenly Father

>>19945673
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127372/

>>19945747
You and your dick mutilating kike demon can fuck off

>>19945747
>it's a personal decision
No, it isn't since it affects the child. Not the parent. More people end up evil than good especially from the Christian perspective. Even if they are raised in a Christian family. By having children, parents inadvertently expose their child to a higher chance of going to Hell than Heaven.

What's the deal with herod, was he a bad guy?

>>19945770
They would have just incarnated on some nigger planet instead, you jizz drenched profligate

>>19945770
There's no such thing as hell

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/ebtv/is-hell-real/

>>19945774
ye

>>19945780
as opposed to this nigger planet?

>>19945793
>JW
holy cringe I should have read the rest of the thread instead of wasting my time

>>19945796
Some Bible translations use the word “hell” for the Hebrew word “Sheol” and the matching Greek word “Hades,” both of which refer to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27)

Many people believe in a fiery hell

However, the Bible teaches otherwise.

Those in hell are unconscious and so cannot feel pain.

“There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol.”—Ecclesiastes 9:10.

Good people go to hell. The faithful men Jacob and Job expected to go there.—Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13.

Death, not torment in a fiery hell, is the penalty for sin.

“He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”—Romans 6:7.

Eternal torment would violate God’s justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4)

When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence:
“Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)

God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell

God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is LOVE.”—1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.

>>19945794
Yeah this planet is okay. We have toaster pastries. You can eat at Denny's, wear a hat whenever you want, go jogging... It's a blast. Just watch out for niggers.

>>19945516
Hey, could I get two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda?

>>19945838

>>19945516

>why do you read the bible
>because when I read the bible, i believe in the bible more
you do realize that religious belief is a critical thinking test which you failed right?

>>19945516
Have you made a one pointed arrow of your heart?

>>19945611
>that pic
You are aware that Israel was just as bad as the others as they practiced human sacrifice, witch craft etc. right? Obviously they weren't supposed to but they did hence the whole exile thing and then Jesus having to become a thing because man can't fulfill the law due to sin
Also
>philosophy bad
Ecclesiastes is very much philosophy and borderline stoic
Also you need to update your graphic. Meds practiced human sacrifice as well

Also while I'm on this matter, are witnesses encouraged to read about history to help add to their pool of information, including primary sources, or is it strictly JW published materials only?

>>19945516
what was your method for studying the bible? have you applied that method to any other hermeneutic study?

>>19945516
What do you know now at your 28th year of study that you didnt know at the 10th year?

>>19945516
If God is perfect, why’d he create an imperfect being?

I have read it is because he wanted his creation to love him in a genuine way rather than being programmed to do so; considering the latter statement, I can’t help asking myself how come the (Christian) god created human beings at all. If he’s a perfect being, why’d he need to create something in the first place? Why’d he need to be worshipped when he already knows he’s perfect?

>>19945699
based

>>19945516

Go back to /his/ you foul abomination.

>>19946944
He means he is 28. He claims he was studying the Bible ever since he was an infant. I'm not joking btw.

>>19945516
It doesn't really matter how long you study a single religious text if you don't understand the historical context in which it was written. For instance:
> There is little to no evidence ~2 million Jews were enslaved in Egypt or in the Sinai desert for 40 years.
> There is significant evidence that suggests Jews were a cult of Yahwist Canaanites.
> Both Yahweh and El were a part of the Canaanite pantheon, Yahweh being El's son and a storm god.
> Many psalms are almost carbon copies of psalms for Baal.
> The writers of the OT had an ideological motive for distinguishing themselves from Canaanites.

And in the NT:
> Many of the books in the NT were arbitrarily chosen to be included by whichever sect of early Christianity was more powerful.
> Several of Paul's letters have been identified as forgeries from their use of anachronism and misunderstanding of koinic greek, as well as writing style.

Not to mention all the many, many changes made to the bible over the years, and the errors and contradictions which I'm sure you already have adequate mental gymnastics for.

>>19945611
>Israel
>justice
>what is the blood curse
some scholar you are

>>19945516
wow, Asa is very cute for a boy

>>19945546
i know this is bait but the bible is a collection of 66 books anon

Find a flaw in my reasoning.

I am an atheist. I see no proof for the existence of god therefore I do not believe in god.

And in regards to Pascal's wager I believe in the case I am wrong an omnipotent and omniscient being capable of building entire universes would understand why I don't believe and would only judge my actions.

There would be no reason to punish me with eternal hellfire outside of pettiness like a scorned bitch so why should I "repent" and "accept God into my life"?

>>19947811
>66
Sounds satanic

>>19947817
>I believe
>I don't believe
What you believe and don't believe is irrelevant. only the truth which is written in the Bible is, and that you choose to overlook. God has answered our questions many times over, and demonstrated his ways. You have never heard, you have never known, from of old your ear has not been opened. For He knew that you would deal very treacherously, and that from birth you were called a rebel.

Dogs or cats?

>>19945516
In your learned opinion, which criticisms of modern Christendom (a very broad term, yes) are most valid and cutting? For me (not a biblical scholar) the inconsistency around which doctrines are commonly followed seems the greatest flaw. The label "Christian" seems more and more like a fashion accessory than an authentic mode of living and thinking.

>>19945550
>>19945516
JWanon is French?

What is the one act God asks that his faithful test him in?

The masoretic texts consist of the earliest surviving copies of every old testament book. The masoretic texts do not date far back enough to correspond with the alleged date of being written for many of the books in the masoretic texts. The fact is, you can't know what the original copy of Genesis, for example, was like based on direct observation. Thankfully, languages change over the years, so Professor Ramon Menedez Pidal at the University of Madrid was able to determine at which point in time each and every sentence in the old testament was originally written. Yes, the bible has a chronology and different books were written at different times, I am aware of that. What I am saying is that the way mainstream christians construct this chronology is incorrect, and no, I'm not talking about the odd ordering of books in a typical Bible. I'm talking about Chronology WITHIN each of the books that makes the Bible look like an alabama family tree which was arbitrarily organized into rigid books. The current organization of "books" that we have stems from authors who begun a particular work, and so that is said to be its own work, when in actuality each and every book of the torah was meticulously edited over THOUSANDS OF YEARS of history by SEVERAL AUTHORS EDITING IT PER BOOK.

>>19948859
>Professor Ramon Menedez
I'm so happy Ramon was here to share his findings

>>19945516
Might be a dumb question but do all the familial ties that are listed for characters in the Old Testament, and the many different names hold any value? Like does the count of the names of all five sons of X matter?

>>19945516
What is the difference between the self and the soul in Christianity? What is their relation to God?

What would you say to someone who believes in pic related?

>>19947817
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-UZGnv9O0&ab_channel=OxfordUnion
not op. start from here

>>19945747
>Joseph rules over Egypt
lmao

>>19945516
Alright I've got a few questions
>1
Any thoughts on the book of Enoch? Do you believe in it?
>2
If god is all powerful, do we have free will?
>3
Favorite profit in the bible?

Whats the best interpretation you could give us about revelations?

specially the angels.

>>19945516
What do you think about the Caesar’s Messiah angle? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar%27s_Messiah

>>19945516
Are you a Calvinist?

What are you your thoughts on the different Theodicies? Any one you ascribe to?

What is the meaning of ''For many are called, but few are chosen?''

What does it mean that Jesus died for our sins?

>>19945516

What do you think about the wordplay and ironies found in the Bible? What do "trees" represent in the Bible for example?

i recently organically awakened my faith
should i read the bible?

i know its mostly metaphor so its applicable but i also dont want it to influence my own faith since i think its unique to me

>>19950415
Of course you should read the Bible.

>>19950421
what do you think the best version of the bible is for a beginner?

>>19950492
I'd say the RSV-CE is great for both men young in the faith, and men grown. I highly recommend learning even a little bit of Koine Greek to dive deeper into the New Testament, though, even if only to see how beautiful the poetry is.

Imagine spending 28 years studying fiction, that's equivalent to studying your own mother tongue for 13 years. That's low IQ for sure.

Which denomination do you follow?

>>19950820
Studying your mother tongue for 13 years would be a very wise thing to do. Many people vastly over-estimate their literacy. Seems you're one of them.

>>19945516

what is the current consensus on deuteronomy 32:8?

The way I understand it many archeologists and historians think it's a leftover from a time when El and Yahveh were different gods, with the second being one of the many sons of the first one.

But when the Septuagint was translated into Greek, it looks like the standard Jewish belief was those are different names for the same God, and the sons of God are angels who should overlook nations, but God kept his chosen nation for himself.

Later rabbinic Jews edited the text to "protect" God, but we know what the original was thanks to the Septuagint and Dead Sea Scrolls.

Am I right in my understanding?
It bothers me that the best translations of my language have the masoretic text version of deuteronomy 32 8, the newer ones have sons of god, but the language of the translations has been made more modern for a modern public, less poetic, simplified.

>>19947817

God is simple, there is no difference between the love of God, the mercy of God, the justice of God. Only from the point of view of humans those look like different things.

God is perfectly just. Every good deed and every sin will be perfectly judged, rewarded and punished, after dying. No one goes to hell thinking it was unfair.
What God does is provide a "loophole" to avoid the punishment we rightly deserve, through the sacrifice of Christ.

I don't know if hellfire should be correctly defined as eternal, but it is very long at least, the most literal translation is something like "for eons"

Think of the supreme court judges who made abortion legal. They are responsible for the death of over 60 million humans, who would have lived over 70 years if they were alive. 70 millions multiplied by 60 is billions of years.
That sin affected a time period of billions of years. When you commit a sin of that scale, you change history in an illicit way. Even killing a single human does, in a butterfly effect way.

>>19945516
Was Ecclesiastes written by multiple authors? I've heard that the ending was added on like hundreds of years later to make it less ambiguous or something.

>>19950955
>Behold, I have refined you, but not like silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction.

>>19945516
What are the best sources for understanding the figurative language, puns, poetry, and other context that aren't immediately apparent to the lay reader?

>>19951132
learn hebrew. learn greek. read more.

>>19945582
lol you got memed, dude. No Christian is circumcised.

>>19945516
Who wrote Hebrews and why was it Apollos?

>>19945516
Do you know koine Greek?

>>19945551
You have to explain to her what pagans were like. Human sacrifices(including cannibalism) are just the surface. Ancient near east pagans were as evil as they come. They would consider the Nazi’s to be weak, effeminate sissies for trying to hide their war crimes in shame.

>>19945566
Jesus is the word of god. Christians worship God by worshipping Christ, not by worshipping the Bible.

>>19951144
>Hebrew
Completely unnecessary. It was a dead language for 500 years before Jesus’ time on earth and synagogues in the 2nd temple period were using the Septuagint and considered it authoritative. All references in the New Testament are from the Septuagint.

>>19947653
For someone who wants to harp about understanding historical context you sure don't know what you're talking about.
> There is little to no evidence ~2 million Jews were enslaved in Egypt or in the Sinai desert for 40 years.
This is a literal non-issue. Ancient near-eastern literature consistently uses hyperbolic or otherwise symbolic numbers when it counts military strength which the exodite census numbers are clearly meant to be since they specify an account of the Hebrew's military age men. Ancient historiography across the board was not concerned with algebraic exactitude the way we are modernly and it's anachronistic and acontextual to force that standard back in time.

> There is significant evidence that suggests Jews were a cult of Yahwist Canaanites.
The biblical narrative explicitly described the intermingling of the Hebrew religion with local canaanite customs at the popular level, it is a consistent theme through-out the Old Testament. The only reason you could possibly think somebody who read the bible wouldn't know about this is if you yourself have never read the Bible. Is that the case?

> Both Yahweh and El were a part of the Canaanite pantheon, Yahweh being El's son and a storm god
See above

> The writers of the OT had an ideological motive for distinguishing themselves from Canaanites.
Talking about "ideologies" in a pre-modern context is a grossly ahistorical way to describe social motives in antiquity.

> > Many of the books in the NT were arbitrarily chosen to be included by whichever sect of early Christianity was more powerful.
This is just flat out incorrect. The NT canon is very clearly defined very early on in church history. The discrepancies that exist are much more easily explained as arising out of linguistic, geographic and situational barriers preventing easy communication and development among Christians across the Greco-Roman world.
If you're referencing the Gnostic literature then no Church father ever makes authoritative use of them and they are consistently (when mentioned) rejected as forgeries and heretical across the Christian world.

> Several of Paul's letters have been identified as forgeries from their use of anachronism and misunderstanding of koinic greek, as well as writing style.
> koinic
The term is Koine or Hellenistic. This is just critical scholarship nonsense. Next you're going to to talk about Jesus seminar or Q source speculation. The fact you called it koinic and not koine is a red flag to me you don't actually have any idea about this topic what-so-ever but if you have read any literature on this topic I suspect you're only being exposed to the extremely radical skeptical wing of the discussion.

>>19950891
I'm not OP but...
> The way I understand it many archeologists and historians think it's a leftover from a time when El and Yahveh were different gods, with the second being one of the many sons of the first one.

That is the current secular consensus. There are other takes on it, namely that a divine council is assumed by the author of Deuteronomy (and other biblical authors) to exist in some form, gods after a manner created by the most high God. See the passage regarding the tower of Babel where the nations of men are divided "according to the number of the sons of God" .These could be the same kind of "sons of God" that came down to father children with the daughters of men only they didn't abandon their station in the heavenly realm like the ones in Genesis 6 did.
This could explain also the "Let us make man in our image" plural language in the early chapters of Genesis. If the "sons of God" were other creatures created like man in God's image that could go some distance to explaining how they could interbreed with humanity. It's a really interesting subject and Dr. Michael S. Heiser has written several books on the topic and has his doctorate in Semitic Languages.

>>19951132
Bullinger's Figures of Speech Used in the Bible is a good place to start.

>>19945516
Did you know this OP?

>>19953088
>>There is significant evidence that suggests Jews were a cult of Yahwist Canaanites.
>The biblical narrative explicitly described the intermingling of the Hebrew religion with local canaanite customs at the popular level, it is a consistent theme through-out the Old Testament.
I'm not sure why I keep seeing this spread on /lit/ lately as if it's some sort of 'gotcha'. Really, as you said, all it does is show the poster's own ignorance of the Bible. They never seem to realize how ridiculous they sound, but instead just dig their heels.

>>19945516
Are you a modernist?

>>19953116

that theory, that sons of gods were appointed as overlookers over nations, and some became evil, seems to me what the bible writers believed in both the old testament and new testament

"powers and principalities" sound like rulers to me, also "the rulers, the authorities, the powers of this dark world"
like the Prince of Persia of Daniel

So, in Ezekiel, when there is a prophecy about the king of tyre, that half makes sense, and half refers to an angel in Eden, perhaps it was a prophecy against the human king of Tyre, and the evil angel with authority over him, a message for the man, and the entity cherub with influence over him

>>19951132
The Pageau brothers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIRA6T33o4&ab_channel=JonathanPageau

>>19950955
Comments like this is why christians are associated with low iq

why did you choose to learn hebrew mythology and religion?
and when you read all the degenerate(foreskin obsession), weird(desert dietary rules) and foreign (entire chapters of Jesus’s jewish lineage) does it not turn you off?

>>19945516
What does "prepare" actually mean in tthat image? How does one spiritually prepare?

>>19954486
>no argument, just character attacks
Comments like this is why antichrists are associated with low iq

>>19945516
what happends if I cover a crustifix in piss

What should I do to make sure I don't end up in hell?

Like actually study with proper scholarship or some schizo Jehovah’s Witness type exegesis?

>>19945516
How do I study the Bible on my own without coming to wildly incorrect conclusions? I figure this could happen with a very old text from a very foreign culture

>>19955094
Accept Christ Jesus.

>>19945516
If you were born in a Muslim nation do you think you would be a Muslim with the same conviction. How about Sikh or Hindu or Buddhist. Your deeply held truths are mostly the result of happenstance

>>19955241
read commentaries on it. some passage didn't make sense? read other translations and look up its interpretation.
Ask God for understanding, most of all.

>>19955212
Scholasticism was a mistake. It demystified theology and crapped out philosophy. What part of “unknowable God” is so hard to get?

>>19945516
If you're a Jehovist then you've pretty much wasted your entire time disinterpreting the Bible to appease your cult masters like a good little doorstep missionary.

Preferred version?

>>19945516
will you kill yourself publicly in notre dame? that would be cool i think

>>19945673
>>19945632
Imagine being less knowledgeable in medicine than some Jehova witness this is embarrasing desu. If yoy dont know search your middle school sex ed tier questions before asking

>>19945516
What do you make of the apocryphal books? Do you believe in demons and fallen angels partly guiding humanity?

>>19945516
Are you Jewish? And if not, why do you serve them?

>>19945516
How old are you?

>>19945551
She didnt even get to the part where Jesus was racist.

>>19945651
Not having gay sex with AIDS infested niggers is a better start to not getting AIDS than having a bit of your dick sold for thousands to the beauty industry.

>>19945516
When did you realise none of it was real?

Do you have a job?

>>19945550
>Don't celebrate birthdays.

Oh god not this type of christian,

Anyway my question if you are still there is:

Is the old testament canon to you,

I heard that christians don't have to do anything the old testament tells them to but everything in it is still canon,

>>19945516
have you read works besides the bilbe, or just that book, what besides the bible do you think is the most useful, do you like the works of

>>19945516
Semitic Supremacist propaganda.

>>19945516
Trinity literally doesn't make sense without modalism.
Original Sin is also dumb.
I don't have any questions to ask you. Fuck you.

>>19945516
My dude stop counting your time

i feel pretty bad for you. ive seen you make these threads again and again on multiple boards, and every time you do, you just succeed in convincing more and more people to turn against christianity. you should be careful that your self-pity is not more important than god. you think you're here being brave, but you're not risking anything at all.