/lit/ - Literature

I don't read new fiction, so I don't know. But I'm going to assume the answer is "Yes."

I don't know, I think the fact her novels never reach a decisive end is a comment in itself. Realistically, I don't think anyone actually believes socialism will go anywhere; it would be naive to think it has any potential in an election and a violent revolution is a pipe dream. Then what are we supposed to do? If I try to picture an ending to Normal People where Marianne and Connell both experience 'moral growth', and become fully committed socialists, I would roll my eyes because of how childish and delusional it would be for average people to think they can actually make a change. The most then can do acknowledge the situation and passively disagree with it.

Maybe it would be generous to say this is an intentional feature of Rooney's writing, but either way, it shows the impossibility of being a socialist in modern society. Capitalism is so ubiquitous that you can't quit it without leaving society, and it is so ingrained in power structures that you can't dismantle it without a mass revolution- but of course that will never happen. Then what are you supposed to do other than be self-aware and self-referential? There is literally no point trying to do better when there is no reward at the end of it.

>>19928795
I am very attractive.

Will Sally Rooney suck my dick?

Relatedly, I'd like to read a comparison of BWWAY and pride and prejudice.

No. Rooney is unironically the best young writer, and lit is extraordinarily jealous of her.

Self awareness is integral to her writing as a forefront writer of the millennial generation, the first generation that spent its formative years watching their lives be chronicled and judged socially on a computer screen. Rooney understands and expertly voices the implications of this and her use of self awareness is akin to the aloofness and disconnect that was prominent in the post world war modernist movement.

>>19929236
This. So much this.

>>19929091
>Marianne and Connell...and become fully committed socialists

I only watched the TV show, what is this nonsense, are they filthy socialists in the book?

>>19929236
>>19929422
yasss qween yass literally this sweaty

I don't read books by anti-semites so I wouldn't know what you're talking about.

>>19929236
What about pic rel?

>>19929503
He is gen X and I’ve only read his poetry. Maybe I should check out his novels

>>19929503
>Not a womxn
>Not a negroid
>Not a transhumanist tranner troon
ngmi

>This is a Tale about a tail—a tail that belonged to a little red squirrel, and his name was Nutkin. He had a brother called Twinkleberry, and a great many cousins: they lived in a wood at the edge of a lake. In the middle of the lake there is an island covered with trees and nut bushes; and amongst those trees stands a hollow oak-tree, which is the house of an owl who is called Old Brown. One autumn when the nuts were ripe, and the leaves on the hazel bushes were golden and green—Nutkin and Twinkleberry and all the other little squirrels came out of the wood, and down to the edge of the lake.They made little rafts out of twigs, and they paddled away over the water to Owl Island to gather nuts. Each squirrel had a little sack and a large oar, and spread out his tail for a sail. They also took with them an offering of three fat mice as a present for Old Brown, and put them down upon his door-step. Then Twinkleberry and the other little squirrels each made a low bow, and said politely— "Old Mr. Brown, will you favour us with permission to gather nuts upon your island?"
She's good. Deal with it.

>>19928795
I still cannot fucking believe that this beaver toothed retard is regarded as an actual author. That people actually BUY her shit with real money.

Mind boggling.

>>19929236
Haters gonna hate.

>>19929236
>Rooney is unironically the best young writer
Weak bait.

>tfw you adjust in your seat in a way that makes your ballbag slowly but satisfyingly peel off your hot hot leg

I don't give a fuck about Sally Rooney

>>19929558
rent free seething

>>19929558
Have sex

>>19929567
>r-rent f-f-free!
Truly a mongoloid's reply.

>>19929569
>Have sex
The cunt can't help but trying to control you by denying you her holes -- or someone else's holes by proxy, if she's not physically there.

>>19929577
filtered

>>19929567
>>19929569
She's hilariously stupid, arrogant and pretentious. No wonder you morons like her.

>>19929565
>she can’t be great cus my right wing sneed
Learn subtext

I'd really like to know what Bret Easton Ellis thinks about Rooney.

>>19929581
>f-filtered!
Mongoloid.

>>19929586
>subtext
Rooney has no subtext. She screams her inane marxist ideas at you loud and clear, then wants to be praised for sniffing her own farts. She 100% believes everything she makes her characters say. She's really that fucking stupid, yes.

>>19929597
sneed

>>19929597
Lmao cope. I guarantee she has a higher iq than you

Rooney's agent posts here?

>>19929597
>her fans' only defence is still that she was only pretending to be retarded
>I-IT'S ALL IRONIC! YOU HATED IT?? THEN.. THEN THE WHOLE BOOK IS IRONY! IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU HATE, SO YOU LIKE IT NOW!

People simp for her because she's superficially "Marxist" and marginally attractive. Her writing is just average YA lit with a dash of self awareness.

>>19929620
He’s using the opinions of a character to infer that the authors own opinions are the same.
That’s like saying Dostoy is an atheist based on a snippet of a Kirillov monolog

>>19929609
ywnbaw

>>19929617
Touch grass, have sex, etc

>>19929633
It's more like saying Dostoevsky might be a Christian because a lot of his pivotal characters are having crises and considerations of Christian faith

Rooney wrote an embarrassing manic plotless chatlog and used her connections to get it published. It's like if I wrote a free association novella about guys on 4chan playing video games and saying niggers. It wouldn't be ironic or meaningful on its own, without an additional layer of commentary. Same with Rooney. It's just her mental world vomited onto the page with no structure and no point.

>>19929650
cope and seethe

>>19929585
Typical basic bitch woke millennial garbage. These people are awfully good at identifying power structures but are at a complete loss as to elucidating how these structures came into being in the first place.

>>19929654
I’m not going to say you got filtered but I think your external perception of Rooney skews your opinion of her more than her actual writing. Maybe you hate her because she’s a woman and people tend to biew all women as diversity pushes or you envy her success but reducing her entire body to Marxist snivelling based on a few short passages is very lowbrow.

>>19929683
>Maybe you hate her because she’s a woman
Yes, but also because she's a bad writer. Like hating a piece of shit because it's a piece of shit, but also because someone threw it at me and it hurt. They are two separate things.

>>19929683
damn nigger you dickride as a job or what

>>19929545
Leaving Atocha Station was like Bret Easton Ellis Less than Zero. Haven't read Topeka School

>>19929695
>hurr she's bad at writing but I won't say how

lol this is a midwit cope if I've ever seen one.

>>19929695
Name 5 superior female authors to prove you aren’t an incel

>>19928795
I am not interested in anyone or anything that talks about sincerity like it's a genre or stylistic choice.

>>19929707
I did say how. Why is it always the same shills in these Rooney threads? Could you vary up your writing styles?

>>19929697
Have grass incel

>>19929717
And that criticism was also proved to be a midwit cope. Keep up anon.

>>19929683
Allegedly she's on record in an interview saying that you can sneak a lot of your own views in through your characters with a twinkle in her eye. Just in case Bobbi was getting too much attention and becoming a threat to her own attention.

>>19929709
1. Michelle Obama
2. JK Rowling
3. Rupi Kaur
4. Savannah Brown
5. Malala

>>19929721
If you had been more subtle with these shill threads and spaced them out more you would have flown under the radar. You hit a critical mass of people who know it's not organic so now any time you post it's just me and 4 other guys saying welcome back Rooney nigger, let me guess, the joke is you're going to keep saying touch grass until the thread 404s.

>>19929737
Cringe attempt at irony and not helping your case

>>19929741
Another midwit cope added to the list.

>>19929741
Retard

>>19929743
Not it was actually based you roasty. Cope harder that your potato eater won't save you.

Irish people are simply boring.

>>19929752
Chud cringe. You 4Chan boys aren't very good at this are you?

You incels need unironically and literally have sex.

>>19929784
/thread

What is with all the polcel rage? This is one of the best books of the last decade.

>>19929784
Yup

>>19929091
>I don't know, I think the fact her novels never reach a decisive end is a comment in itself.
> There is literally no point trying to do better when there is no reward at the end of it.
Imagine having a large audience, and preaching passivity and fatalism instead of literally any other message to current society. For all of the hand-wringing of what should a novel "be for", she looks at the problems of the world and shrugs. Bemoan the irrelevance of a novel by writing an irrelevant novel. Well done.

The genius of Rooney requires you to lose your virginity unironically

>>19929789
Sub 4 rating on goodreads, idk

>>19929585
We went over this in a prior rooney shill thread. The latter half of this rant is exactly what the critique in op is getting at. She's saying that she is waiting for black people to tell her what to do because they are the arbiters of moral action. Without their direction she can't do anything. She is worried about the environment and wants to do something to effect the environment. But no black leader will share her environment focus so she is out of luck and quietly bitter about her disappointing leaders.

She can't come up with the solutions herself, because she is tired. She is also not authorized to lead and investigate because she is white. It's a very strange religion of attributing all evil and dysfunction to white males and capitalism but reform can only come from the antithesis of white males. Adding in race to your tackling of logistical problems completely hamstrings any progress.

>>19929798
That’s unironically a good thing

>>19929790
But is there any other way to react to modernity?

>>19929801
have sex unironically

best thread on /lit/ right now

>>19929737
>Michelle Obama
>female

>>19929804
WWII ushered in an obscene and violent age of corporate determinism and governmental control that depersonalized and rendered absurd the individual, and the only way out of its destructive path is to disappear.

>>19929824
Cringe /lit/ newfag forcing meme book into conversation where it is not relevant. Read more and come back chuddy.

>>19929821
Literally have sex

>>19929804
Actively pursue a passion. No matter how shitty conditions gets, this is still the Earth. Government fuckery doesn't stop plants from growing or waves from coming in. Hell, you can even surf those waves. There is so much enjoyment to be found outside away from all the nonsense modernity generates and it is indifferent to modernity. And that's not even getting into what enjoyment you can get out of engaging with modernity. That's debatable, of course, which is why I'm coming at your pessimism with the eternal presence of nature's bounty.

>>19929797
What if I lost my virginity ironically?

She is not even the cutest Rooney--it's Wayne.

>>19929840
You can only write what you know, and if Rooney feels despondent about modern life then it is well within her rights to depict it as such.

>>19929804
>"The book’s main ideas—that too much easy pleasure may poison the soul, that we’re awash in an ocean of pain, and that truly knowing another person is the hardest and most worthwhile work in the world

>>19929804
The two major ideas that the novel seemed to gravitate around were family and faith, and Dostoyevsky intertwined them with each other beautifully, so that the novel essentially asks the question: Is it possible to escape your most base, depraved urges (family), and if yes, then how (faith)?

>>19929857
Sure, but it comes off as juvenile. Children passively set expectations and wait around for their guardian to fulfill them. Adults actively pursue their own meaning and passion without relying on others. Adult colloboration is just a bonus. Two adults who already have their own shit sorted can get together and achieve crazy and amazing results because it's all superfluous play. All the essentials are independently spoken for and only pure divertment possibilities remain.

I'm not going to tell anyone what they can and can't write. I am going to judge them for what they decide to write. I responded to a question of there being no other alternative to reacting to modernity. As if being a passive depressed intellectual is the only mode of being outcome after interfacing with modernity. Laughable and childish.

only consoomers read this shit

>>19929597
>>19929585
>>19929565
These critiques suck, no offense. All it's saying is "I disagree wit her opinions because they're LEFT. LEFT LEFT LEFT!!!! LEFT BAD!!! THIS LEFT!!!".

The real problem with these works is that they're extraordinarily boring. Extrapolating from what I see in the screencaps you posted, the book is either an essay or bad fiction. I'm lead to believe it's an essay, because, typically, conversations are meant to contribute to the story. From what I can tell then, the story consists of faggots sitting in a circle discussing philosophy and anthropology. This sucks, you can barely call it a story, it's the sort of shit you would expect from an uncreative, sheltered faggot, who has uncreative, sheltered opinions that they're too scared/lazy to actually back with citations of research supporting what they believe. The alternative is that it's bad fiction; perhaps there is some grander story taking place, but it's completely disconnected from the conversation being had here. She should just do what V. Hugo does and have a massive windy chapter of the sewerage system that the reader may skip at his own discretion, in effect segmenting the philosophical exposition from the artistry of the story. Rooney is just dumping all of her opinions into the conversations so she can say: "teehee, it's not really academic, because the ideas are just conversations, *I* never said these ideas are true!". It's very much spoonfeeding the audience with female opinions. It's not "self-aware"; women lack self-awareness, it's barely even a critique of society, because these nepotistic faggots are so far removed from day-to-day life that they don't even understand what's wrong with society. She's just regurgitating what her professors spouted in anthropology 101.

Anyway, after typing this out, I realised that the book may have a plot, so I went onto wikipedia and got this:

Plot: The book details the relationships among four people – Frances (the narrator), Bobbi (her best friend), and Melissa and Nick (a married couple).

That's it. That's the whole fucking plot. I was right. Fuck you niggers, fuck this white-nigger rooney, fuck jannies fuck trannies fuck jews fuck whitey fuck chinks fuck wogs fuck lmaos and fuck dogs (teehee). Fuck the world and fill it with cum blah blah blahahaahahahhahahaaaa............

>>19928795
ITT

>>19930616
lol thanks for the bump retard

>>19929984
You haven't read the book. It sucks, but you should shut the fuck up about it--you make people who critique it fairly look bad by association. Basically, you just out yourself as someone who was filtered and come off sounding like a pseud/incel.

>>19930621
No problemo faggot. Grab some peppermint tea and a glass of wine (white, always white) and prepare to have your tastes mocked by your betters.

>>19930653
>you're a stupid loser but I agree with everything you said

>>19929091
>The most then can do acknowledge the situation and passively disagree with it.
In a way you're right, they're women. No further explanation is needed.
But, and while I expect no woman high on her own queefs to understand this, there is catharsis in action. Individuals; especially women; love to pretend society itself is one huge magical machinery spinning about irrelevant to the input of its workers and actors, without realizing it's them in their smug servitude and passive rebellions that allow it to keep working as such. These personal defeats, these trampled spirits, are the only thing keeping this oh-so-despicable-and-ugly-world spinning. This cowardice is what allows the very capitalism they so despise to keep on destroying lands, withering meadows, soiling oceans and murdering millions of impoverished subhumans all so they can enjoy the simple comforts of bitching about a system they so gleefully participate in.
All it takes is one Uncle Ted to shine a light on these issues. All that's needed is the passionate release of undying anger to make those in power, ultimately, shit their pants. All it takes is one murderous schizo to topple down this magnificent Jenga tower, each of its pieces engraved with the word "bullshit", and raze it all to the ground.
But of course, that's too hard. You'd rather passively contemplate suicide, asking your cat (your only friend in this whole wide world) whether it'd mourn your twisted caring of it by consuming your remains once you hang yourself (it has to be said, however, you're too recreant to even muster this little act of self-pity) only to then vicariously end your misery right as you realize you're late for that Zoom meeting where you'll discuss the next topic in the assembly line of bullshit to churn out with your equal hylics, all sharing that dead gaze you mistake for commendable aloofness and understanding of the human condition; right?

What are your favorite rooney paragraphs? Mine's this one

>>19930802

>>19930802
Accurate.

>>19928795
KEK
As soon as she names the jew legacy media turns against her
How predictable

>>19929709
Superior (leaf edition)
>Gallant
>Blais
>Munro
>Laurence
>Moodie
Rooney isn't bad but her subject matter is pretty shallow. It's like she's an autistic trying to relate melodrama that involves people instead of trains.

>>19930802
>le satire
Dfw's rope just got tighter

The quotes make it sound like a parody of self-absorbed students (American psycho for university imstead of a bank).

>>19931005
You have not read the book.

>>19931014
>t. troon
Reading a white woman's book won't make you a woman

>>19930922
Fellow leaf here. Munro is better than Rooney but that’s it

>>19929713
/thread

>>19930653
>someone who was filtered and come off sounding like a pseud/incel
>filtered
Faggot /mu/ meme. Books don't filter me, I filter books. Not reading a book in its entirety doesn't make me stupid if the book sucks (as you assert). In fact the converse would be the case.

I make no claims to have read the book; my post is pretty open about it. I wouldn't say my post is pseudy, I use the 'nigger' word a bit and it's not like there's any structure in the post to suggest it's a genuine critique. At best I'm just attacking the low-effort "duhhh my brain tell me this marxist therefore automatically bad" mindset that so many retards have today. My post is a little incel-esque, I'll give you that. I think being incel is based, especially if you're a voluntary incel (wrap your head around that one, fags) who acknowledges that women are just low-tier creatures, along with most men. Sometimes women can write good literature, but Sally Rooney is not one such woman.

>>19929503
The fact that you have to take a picture like this on purpose makes me hate him and I don't even know who he is.
I can forgive Sally, she's a woman and is meant to look good for photos.

>>19929597
I don't think she would like a world without monogamy. If everyone got polygamy then men get to fuck who they want and everyone's decision is their own. Oh you got pregnant? I never said I was using protection, you shouldn't be so careless. Men will keep all of their property and money and risk nothing on women. Their value will fall so far below dirt that it will be mind-boggling. When the law truly treats everyone the same then men will just make good business decisions with other men and put their wealth only to their own use. Women will be cut out of the deal entirely. Some women will prosper, of course, there were female nobles.
But they are weaker and stupider than men. Not me, I'm retarded, but by and large they are worse than men at everything.

>>19932573
It makes you stupid if your take is way off base and revolves around cliched femcel shit. It also makes you a complete pseud ("Victor Hugo sewage system"). It isn't even a decent slide (hence me being you're only (You) even though you mass replied like a faggot).

>>19929683
>Maybe you hate her because she’s a woman
I love Jane Austen, Virginia Woolf, the Bronte sisters, and most of Octavia Butler's works.
Rooney is just a shit writer, regardless of her genitalia. Don't use the muh-soggy-knee excuse. Coward.

>reducing her entire body to Marxist snivelling based on a few short passages
A few short passages?? Her books are constantly pushing marxist bullshit she tries to pass as genius insight into our society. Constantly. Every goddamn page has some of that shit. Every dialogue is "le genius 21 year old marxist theorist destroying white males in a debate because she's so brilliant and sexy". Rooney writes self-fellating fanfiction.

>>19929721
>proved to be a midwit cope
Yeah, every criticism was always "already debunked" in a previous thread, but you can't find it now because you don't have time to look for it and we wouldn't know it anyway because it goes to a different school in Canada.

i hate leftism and socialism as much as the next guy, and i find rooney’s work to be banal, bourgeois, and selfindulgent, but jeez louise, are the “critiques” of rooney in this thread pathetic. sounds like a lot of you fags were filtered by even an airport bookstore pleb author like her, to the point you cannot articulate any meaningful critical engagement with her books outside of “left wahman bad” and “pretentious and boring.” get a grip and get an education you seething twats

>>19932737
>Every goddamn page has some of that shit. Every dialogue is "le genius 21 year old marxist theorist destroying white males in a debate because she's so brilliant and sexy"
If you're talking about Conversations with Friends that's not true. There's more shit about drinking tea/wine than communism. Communism is brought up about the same amount as menstrual bleeding/pain (i.e. only a couple of times albeit it's usually eventful when it is).

>>19932756
stop triggering the /pol/fag nuancelet, we all know he lacks the stomach to rationally discuss ideologies he disagrees with rather than reeee’ing like a mocked chris-chan anytime the name marx is even mentioned

wonder why they are turning on her

>>19929747
>>19929751
Seethe rooneyfags. Your heroine is shit and so are you.

>>19930774
I enjoyed your post anon - you have a nice style.

>>19929801
Indeed. She accepts this bullshit idea that white people are morally inferior to other races and so shouldn't dare to do anything without getting non-whites' approval first. Which is fucking insane. The race that invented everything good in the world (from technology to human rights, to the idea that the individual cannot be abused by the system because their personal freedom matters, to the idea that you can have private property and capital and improve your condition). Whites are also the only race to not only ban slavery, but even push other races to end it (Saudi Arabia banned it only in 1967 because of british pressure), and the only race to sacrifice their own in order to free another race from slavery (the Civil War: 400k white lives lost to free blacks). White people have created the safest, most progressive countries in the history of mankind.
And despite all this, mongoloids like rooney still assume that whites are more evil, more greedy, more cruel than other races, and so shouldn't dare to talk.
She's a stupid piece of shit and so are the people who praise her.

>>19929565
She's so boring

>>19929984
>an uncreative, sheltered faggot, who has uncreative, sheltered opinions that they're too scared/lazy to actually back with citations of research
Describes every single "young leftist who fancies themselves a political theorist" on the planet. Rooney included.

>>19930774
>All it takes is one murderous schizo to topple down this magnificent Jenga tower
The rest of your post is good but this is just juvenile garbage. The system has ways to deal with lone violent outliers. A murderous schizo doesn't have the power to change anything, at best he can kill a few people, get on the news for a day, and then be forgotten.

The fact that every thread about her talks about her politics and how she conveys her politics in her work instead of the LITERARY MERIT of her actual books tells me everything I need to know about her. Another millennial writer turning their twitter threads into lame fiction.

>>19932684
Women are stupid and animalistic, controlled by their cunts.
This means that when they criticize monogamy, they do so only because they want more freedom to be sluts, they want the ability to hop on all the dicks they want without being shamed for it (since they're social chickens, being shamed is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to them). They imagine their bf/husband telling them "No, you can't fuck other guys" and get all angsty and pissed like a child being told that he can't eat an entire jar of Nutella for dinner.
That's it. That's the level of their "reasoning".
Women have no fucking clue that monogamy was an invention crucial to the development of modern society, that without a system that guaranteed every man pussy and children, none of our modern gadgets would have come to be, because a system where only the top 5% of males (the hottest or richest) fuck all the women, the remaining 95% of men become just a despondent, degenerate mass of frustrated virgins with no motivation to contribute to society in any way. Rooney has no idea of all the positive consequences monogamy had on men and women, of its social, economic and psychological impacts. She doesn't know, nor care to know, that all non-monogamous cultures are backward, scientifically inept and misogynistic. All she knows is that "men are telling me I can't fuck whoever I want with no repercussions and that's oppression". So she gets pissed and she shits out a "book" like that.

Women stay children their whole lives, and if you give them what they ask for, they end up ruining themselves and society as a whole. That's why our ancestors kept them on a short leash.

>>19932753
>I'm not a rooneyfag but here let me defend her shit and kvetch about the guys that criticize her without explaining why their arguments are bad
+100 stealth.

>>19932756
I read that shit about a year ago and I distinctly remember marxist bullshit being constantly brought up. It was exhausting to roll my eyes so often.

>>19932764
>lacks the stomach to rationally discuss ideologies he disagrees with
Stop projecting, lefty little shit. You're the ones that never read/listen to any opposing ideas because "that'd mean giving the nazis attention" and so remain wholly ignorant about the reasons your ideas are retarded shit with wider holes than your mom.

>>19932811
>the LITERARY MERIT of her actual books
Her style is dry and composed solely by short sentences like a telegram (prolly because her target audience has the attention span of a puppy on meth). She seems to carefully choose words that make her voice aseptic, detached and indifferent to what's going on. Except when her heroines are talking, and then she fills her dialogues with pseudo-sociological terms in an attempt to seem very smart and well read. She occasionally has some nice descriptive passage, but her style is overall bland, easy and monotone. Designed to impress young 20-somethings that haven't read or thought much and don't really know how to read or think well.

So those are her tools as a writer. The ideas she expresses with those tools are pretentious, juvenile bullshit that anyone older than 20 should be able to pick apart, and the quality of the ideas you choose to push on your reader should factor in your overall judgement, it's not an insignificant detail.

>>19932685
>your take
twitter buzzword
>"Victor Hugo sewage system"
It's sewerage, you troglodyte
>me being you're only (You)
This point aged poorly
>mass replied like a faggot
You're right, I should be a cowardly nigger instead and not substantiate any of my points.

>>19933346
All your points are incorrect and you're a pseud. Fuck off.

>>19932825
It isn't though. It is mentioned that Francis is a communist a couple of times (but it's never elaborated on) and that Bobbi (supposedly) hates rich people (but it's poked fun at most of the time, even though it's never called out directly as hypocritical), that's about it.

>>19929503
dude he looks like that fucking blonde kid...what's his name?

>>19934287
this guy?

>>19934324
lmao yes

>>19934093
>It is mentioned that Francis is a communist a couple of times (but it's never elaborated on) and that Bobbi (supposedly) hates rich people (but it's poked fun at most of the time, even though it's never called out directly as hypocritical), that's about it.
You didn't read the book, did you?

>>19929091
They're ivory tower champagne socialists and so is rooney herself. Of course any book she writes it's going to be nothing than political or philosophical navel gazing as that's all such people are capable of.

>>19935014
You didn't read my post. I explained how there isn't anything to do other than politically or philosophically navel gaze.

>>19935222
Yes I was supporting your point

>>19935514
You said:

>that's all such people are capable of.

I think it's all what anyone is capable of. If Chad were a committed socialist, he's get as far a Rooney herself would- which is nowhere.

>>19934093
lol butthurt retard

>>19932756
pseud

>>19928795
I would never read her book, or the New Yorker. What the fuck are you thinking anon?

>>19929565
At least in life you can tune out these people, imagine willfully reading this lol

>>19929565
There is a profit motive to raising kids though

>>19929565
this chick is the zlatan ibrahimovic of lit

>>19934969
When does Francis being a communist or Bobbi being a retard figure more into the story than her self-harm/getting raped?

She's just awful. I've read all of her books (you can get them for free at street libraries) and there is obviously some sort of faustian pact going on here. The worst part is people thinking of Sally Roo ey as THE woman writer the same way Rupi Kaur is THE woman poet. Not that reducing things to just, women isn't an incel approach but they are bringing great shame upon much better contemporary lady artists

>>19935939
>Sally Roo ey as THE woman writer the same way Rupi Kaur is THE woman poet
That literally only happens here. Among actual literate people, Kaur is an irrelevant joke and Rooney has the same prestige as John Grisham

>>19935856
You mean she’s wildly entertaining and arrogant in an endearing way? Sounds more like an endorsement than a put-down.

>>19935939
Sally is very noticeably a lot more talented than Rupi is though.

>>19935996
that's like being more talented than a pile of dirt, francis.
You can't be worse than dirt.

>>19935964
No. Unfotunately not. She gets brought up a lot in any NPC literary circles/social book club/wine and sip/shitty parties
>>19935996
Yes. Still absolute shit though.

>>19936051
Or that one of them is objectively terrible while the other can be said to have redeemable qualities that make her worth discussing beyond memes.

>>19935964
>t.never stepped foot in academia

>>19936116
Look I didn't want to make them feel that bad, but you're right.
>>19936067
Her redeemable qualities can be found elsewhere, and honed much better. If you think she's redeemable then you haven't read enough.

>>19929091
And I thought socialists were the doomers. God fucken damn go be cattle somewhere else

>>19936140
It's sad when people become so online they can't talk without memes.

>>19936145
It's sad when people who browse image boards take a holier than thou attitude over memes of all fucken things

Why are troons so into 'self-awareness'? Is this projection?

>>19936170
I am tempted to soijak you just to prove a point.

>>19935992
I just meant looks-wise.

>>19936185
>I am tempted to soijak you just to prove a point.

>>19936116
>I’ve never worked hard at anything, I said.
>That must be why you study English.
>Then he said that he was just joking, and actually he had won his school’s gold medal for composition. I love poetry, he said. I love Yeats.
>Yeah, I said. If there’s one thing you can say for fascism, it had some good poets.
>He didn’t have anything else to say about poetry after that. Afterwards he invited me back to his apartment and I let him unbutton my blouse. I thought: this is normal. This is a normal thing to do. He had a small, soft upper body, not at all like Nick, and he did none of the usual things that Nick did to me before we had sex, like touching me for a long time and talking in a low voice. It started right away, with no introduction really. Physically I felt almost nothing, just a mild discomfort. I let myself become rigid and silent, waiting for Rossa to notice my rigidity and stop what he was doing, but he didn’t. Iconsidered asking him to stop, but the idea that he might ignore me felt more serious than the situation needed to be. Don’t get yourself into a big legal thing, I thought. I lay there and let him continue. He asked me if I liked it rough and I told him I didn’t think so, but he pulled my hair anyway. I wanted to laugh, and after that I hated myself for feeling superior.
You don't have to read much of her writing to understand she's talented. You're a pseud and likely an incel.

>>19936253
Wow. So Dianne Williams except bad and intolerable. Truly a scholar.

>>19936253
??? I'm defending Rooney... I thought the comparison to John Grisham was an insult but idk maybe you think differently.

>>19936263
>Relates an author who is nothing like the author we're speaking of after trying to base his last argument on being well-read.
Thanks for demonstrating why you shouldn't be taken seriously that the best way to out a pseud is to let them trap themselves in their own pseudery. Pseud.

>>19936253
Honestly Londonfrog has written better than this.

>>19936125 re: >>19936253.

>>19936267
He responded to it anyway though.

>>19936267
It is an insult to Grisham.

>>19936285
Uhhh sweaty. Williams has been doing this schtick for decades now. You also have Eileen Myles, Mary Fallon, Lisa Crystal Carver, Julia Slavin, Katie Degentesh, Kathryn Davis, Ariana Reines, Susan Howe, Kristina Born, Cynthia Ceilan.

Who would you compare Rooney too?

>>19936368
Could you do Julia Slavin please?

And I want more than a sentence. Oh and I will be judging you on the quality of the comparison you produce as well- make sure your spelling and grammar is up to scratch ;).

>>19936385
Easy. They are both women. Rooney is shitty and boring while Slavin is entertaining and based.

>>19928795
Don't know who the cunt is, but would love to hear her recite the poetry she knows from heart with my cock in her mouth

>>19936368
>I'm sure you will be impressed as I am with this list of authors I've composed. I am obviously not filtered and one to be reconned with...you are not testing me, I'm testing you!
Fuck off pseud. Go read.

>>19936508
Rooney the retard. Thats what the faculty calls her behind open doors.

>>19936629
That makes her more endearing. How autistic are you?

Do men really read this vapid author?

>>19936756
Extremely. More autistic than you. So don't you DARE try and imply otherwise.

>>19929842
The cutest Rooney is Rooney Mara. Wayne is a close second.

>>19936770
>it's the sad autism where you build an ego despite not having access to what goes on in other people's minds.
There there, anon. There there.

>>19936916
Don't you EVER respond to me again.

>>19936951
I do what I want.

>>19937072
Oh, okay. That's alright then sir, completely understandable, you have a good day now.

>>19937094
When an autist is forced to recognize their autism as a defect instead of a cope they lose the ability to shitpost properly and their irony becomes recursive.

>>19937131
What does recursive mean again?

>>19937140
>an autist who isn't even good at math
You're making me sad anon. Keith posting time.

>>19937159
So you don't know what recursive means?

>>19937161
>give me something...anything!
There there little autist. There there.

>>19937185
What does recursive mean?

>>19937200
>WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!!! GIVE ME SOMETHING! I CAN'T ENGAGE! DEFINITION? SOCIAL CUE? DEFINITION!! ANYTHING!!!
Shhhhhh. There there, little guy. There there.

This >>19937131
so >>19937140
so >>19937161
so >>19937200
Meta filtered.

>>19937274
So you don't know what recursive means?

>>19937532
>ANSWER MEEEEEEEEEEEE
When an autist is forced to recognize their autism as a defect instead of a cope they lose the ability to shitpost properly and their irony becomes recursive.

>>19937606
What does recursive mean?

>>19937688
>If I play into the joke now I won't look like as much of a fool and as long as I keep replying this isn't over!
Goodnight autist.
>what does it mean?
Goodnight.
>hello?
>hello?
>....
>so you don't know what recursive means?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>what does recursive mean?
>hello?
>so you don't know what recursive means?
>hello?
>what does recursive mean
>......
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE
YWNKAM you will never know another mind

>>19937131
You're using recursive incorrectly. Really what you mean to say is that their irony becomes. It just becomes. Irony becomes when an autist understands what they are and they use humour to negate that, then the irony actually become able to shitpost, since true shitposting requires one to understand onesself before he is able to push unto others a humorous facade of himself. It's almost as though by recognising one's own flaws, he can exaggerate his features to be large in the places he's small, and small where he's large. This creates humorous juxtaposition that the shitposter (typically me) may relish in. Whether others understand the humour is irrelevant, the only happiness that matters to me in the act of shitposting is my own, no one else here actually exists.

Anyway, your premise is based on poor reasoning. When an autist falsely views their autism as a defect, they are adhering to the status quo. When an autist recognises their autism as a super-power that gives them unrestrainable tard rage, they are superseding the common man.

>>19937140
It's true he's using terms like "recursive" and "irony" in a meaningless way, but you're being a faggot about it.

>>19937911
>sperg
Hahahaha

>>19937920
DUH
TIK TOK BRAIN
ME NEED 10 SECOND FUNNY
DUUUUHHH EEEHEHEHEH

>>19937929
I'm not going to read your sperg/attempt at a shitpost. I meant what I said, spend some more time thinking about it. .
Cope.

>>19937976
Oh anon, anon and your tiny little brain. So pathetically small, it cannot even read a few sentences. He thinks that the mere act of typing a paragraph costs much effort. Perhaps so if you type like a dullard, but my fingers are agile, slick, and slender. It's why your mother loves them so much. She loves to suckle on my nice little boney fingers, especially after they make her cum. I really need to stop seeing your mother, actually. I'm a married man, I don't even find her attractive, and she doesn't like p in v sex, just fingering, it's ok but I'd really just rather jack off to porn than her. No offence, she's a solid 5/10, and that's if you account for her age.

Seriously, go back and reread what I said. I mean what I said. Go back and reread nonsense. That bit where I said "and into the thine water free chair table slate?". Reread it. It makes perfect sense, you're just filtered by my genius. Seriously dude. I'm just better than you. I'm just at a moral and intellectual high ground. You can't win, dude, so seriously just take my word for it and give up. Seriously. Like dude, I mean what I'm saying. Just kill yourself. End your sad pathetic life. Do us all a favour.

>>19938020
Still not reading.
Have the last paragraph--I'll take the last word: Cope.

>>19937726
What does recursive mean?

>>19937911
>"Meaningless way"

Could you expand on this?

>>19938061
Seethe.

>>19929195
Probably. Her husband is some skinny blonde guy, a math teacher. Idk if it's the accent which messes me up, but I think he has gay/autism voice too.

>>19938091
Why can't you faggot?

>>19938115
Why can't I what?

>>19938127
>what?
>>19938094
Cope.

>>19938138
What is 'cope'?

>>19938142
Indeed.

>>19938091
Because it's either irony or sincerity. Sincerity posing as irony is still sincerity. A white man in black face is still a white man, and if he puts white makeup on the black then he just becomes a white man in white makeup. Irony is just a simulation of ignorance, a make-belief. To go and "add a second layer" of irony is really to enact a simulation of a simulation. But a simulation of a simulation is still only a single simulation, since the smaller simulation is just a part of the larger. I wouldn't say that I am really twice myself because my brain imagines a version of myself sitting at my desk. I'm only once myself, there's only one of me existing here in the simulation we call the universe. I'm sick of the 2015 reddit-esque facebook humour that posits "layers of irony" as existing (also jreg didn't invent the term post-irony while I'm here), as opposed to 'irony' (i.e. sarcasm/satire) really being isomorphic to GF(2). The possibility for recursive irony was 0 to begin with, so even if we try understand the logic behind "when [they] recognize autism as a defect.... they lose the ability to shitpost properly" (not true as I pointed out earlier - being self-aware improves comedic ability), and even if we try understand exactly why this causes "irony to become recursive", we realise the phrase "irony becomes recursive" is meaningless, it's like saying a light is recursive because when it's on, it's technically off ironically, but then when you turn it off again, it's off ironically ironically, and so on, with the light never being truly off or on, just ironically on or off at several "layers" of irony.

>>19929091
>moral growth
>become fully committed socialists

>>19929597
I honestly can't see this as an endorsement of the ideas this Bobbi chick holds
She's suppossed to sound grating and retarded

>>19938243
>sperg...literal...sperg
Nope.

>>19938320
No counterarguments, just childish screeeeching

It's ok kid, you'll grow up one day, hey, pretty soon you might even be allowed to sip from daddy's alcohol cabinet!

>>19938312
I can't believe how many people are filtered by the fact it's reasonable to interpret Bobbi as a selfish/hypocritical cunt. Has to be autism.

>>19938189
What does recursion mean?

>>19938342
>counterarguments
It's not what it means and it's funny that you overthought it so much and just ended up looking like a pseud faggot. Saint Barbie is my counterargument. Seethe.

>>19938343
Yeah
The scene to me reads like it's more about dumb social dynamics of young college educated people, not a grl owning the chuds or whatever

>>19929091
>I think the fact her novels never reach a decisive end is a comment in itself.
All four main characters in BWWAY end happily attached/engaged/pregnant and content with life (including one couple who openly returns to the arms of the Catholic church).

>>19937131
>>19937140 >>19937161 >>19937200 >>19937532 >>19937688 >>19938079
>>19938091 [>>19937911 >>19938243 >>19938342]
So >>19937606
It's fucking beautiful. I'm going to coom.

>>19938355
>recursion
It's not what it means. You're pretending to be a based retard but just look like a retard. Cope.

>>19938423
What does it mean? Recursion that is.

>>19938442
The thing that's most embarrassing about you isn't that you're stupid. It's that you see anyone attempting to articulate an idea as "cope" or "seethe", that it's somehow a cardinal sin of the internet to be sincere. It's like you've never once enjoyed analysing phenomena, and as a result, any time someone responds with something more than a meme, you think they must be angry, or reddit, or coping, or some other flavour-of-the-month buzzword. Perhaps they're just seeking truth. And to aim for truth but miss is better than to never aim at all. The former has a task at hand to refine his shot, the latter is lazy and destructive, jealous and vindictive. You're just a coward.

>>19938460
So you don't know what recursive means?

>>19938380
Yeah, but my guess is they'll probably lean into that interpretation in the BBC adaptation (Bobbi is going to be a !POC!). I read Rooney to shit on it but found out the people criticizing her on this board are a lot dumber than she is and it's pretty obvious they're just filtered by women. Her essays are pretty shitty but Conversations with Friends is very well done overall. I expected WB drama but ended up with a well-conveyed story about personal trauma that really pulls you into the narrator's head. The characters don't appeal to me but that aspect of her writing isn't actually very important.

Also, check it out...I got the two autistic retards to start fighting one another >>19938423 >>19938442 >>19938460 >>19938487. (Fucking kek).

Goodnight autists.

>>19938508
What does recursive mean?

>>19938508
>I read a bad book so I could say it's bad


>>19938442
>>19938487
>>19938508
>>19938552
samefag

>>19938552
Continue asking >>19938460. Night!

>>19938564
See spoilers of >>19938508 (i.e. the only (You) in your post--the one you posted twice). Retard. Filename. Night!

>>19938585
>edits photo to not appear as a samefag
>says goodnight, keeps posting
predictable

>>19938564
So you don't know what recursive means?

>>19938566
What does recursive mean?

>>19938773
I know what recursive means

>>19938773
based

>>19936253
this writing is appalling. peak atheistic woman

>>19936253
This is repulsive and it sucks. No idea what you idiots could possibly be talking about for 200 posts.

>>19938393
I wouldn't say that was growth; it's more of a regression or a capitulation to what is expected of them. They were hopeful young socialist women who were going to break the mould and ended up resigning themselves to the institutions (the Church and marriage) they were supposed to be fighting against.

I think Rooney is saying that you have to make the most with what you have; and if you are happy that is (mostly) all that matters.

And I was mainly referring to the NYT article anyway. They framed it more as a criticism that Rooney's characters acknowledge their own flaws, but never make any attempt to fix them- but I was saying that it is an intentional design that the flaws remained. It is a reminder that a perfect world is not possible, but it is possible to find happiness within it. Eileen and Alice both reached contentment without a government takeover and without the Prince Charming and that is a very sweet ending to me.

>>19939744
>but I'm not going to say how!!!

If her work is self-awareness and sincerity then she is a walking dead. If she was being sincere her stories would be sad because god damn is her existence pathetic. It makes me feel like driving a spearpoint through her face and putting her out of her misery. I'm not being edgy, that's not something I'd enjoy doing probably. That's my visceral soul-deep reaction to reading her prose. How do you enjoy this? Do you have to be dead inside? How do you relate to the emotions this creature expresses? She's like an alien lifeform. Reading her produces the same sensation as if I felt something and my arm and looked down and there was a huge spider crawling up towards my neck. All I want to do is shake it off and stomp it to death while touching it as little as possible. I can't take any of you seriously.

>>19938773
What does it mean? Recursive that is.

>>19939867
The feeling is mutual

>>19935550
>If Chad
Your mind is useless

>>19939899
Youre*

>>19938508
> they'll probably lean into that interpretation in the BBC adaptation
kek, true. That really sucks.
>it's pretty obvious they're just filtered by women
Kind of, yeah. Sometimes people miss the joke when women make fun of themselves
Tbh even if Rooney is sympathetic to whatever Bobbi is saying in that screencap the tone and purpose of the scen couldn't be more obvious

>>19938312
Being grating doesn't make her wrong. She dominates the conversation because she's the most charismatic and the most thorough in her radical ideas, and that's annoying, but the protag clearly admires her.
>listening to bobbi was exciting
>she spoke in clear, brilliant sentences
>she never hesitated or repeated herself
>I loved to listen to bobbi when she was like this
>aesthetically gorgeous laugh
You could just as well say the guys and Camille are the ones you're supposed to laugh at because they can't get one over on her and end up looking like uptight squares for not being insane.

This neck looks like a good place for a boot

>>19938343
That's the surface level interpretation of the passage. Obvious as you say. The subtext is that no one can prove her wrong.
>lol how can LITERALLY EVERY1 get filtered by something so obvious
Maybe they aren't. Maybe it's obvious and the real point went over your head.

>>19940017
>The subtext is that no one can prove her wrong.
Can you not think for yourself? You are allowed to disagree with her you know...

And you clearly have not read the book because the scene after Bobbi reveals she's having trouble with her father and her siblings: so the whole performance involving the question about the 'favourite child' was an extension of her own personal issues. She was acting out and rebelling against her own father.

But of course you knew that because you are so clued into the subtext, right?

>>19939980
>Being grating doesn't make her wrong.
True, and it also doesn't mean the author thinks the ideas are wrong. I agree, said so above. However, the protagonist agreeing with her doesn't make her right either, in neither way.

>>19938625
>You edited the photo! You're a samefag, I swear!
Fuck off loser.

>>19939948
Rooney probably is sympathetic to it but there's also the fact Bobbi is pontificating about something Frances is actually living through by having an affair with a married man. There's a very obvious surface level of irony there as well--Frances being far more sensitive than Bobbi but lacking the maturity to contextualize that aspect of herself and not having the self-confidence to see that trait as a benefit/integral to who she is as a person; she instead admires Bobbi's brashness.

As you said, the purpose of the scene is pretty obvious; I'd add that treating Conversations with Friends as if it were a novel of ideas really misses the point and it's pretty funny to me that most of the people filtered by it are unaware of how similar they actually are to someone like Bobbi in terms of their annoying/negative characteristics.
>>19940017
The point is that Bobbi is a self-assured and pretentious young woman who Frances admires for immature reasons. Retards engage with her as if she's a real person (a credit to Rooney) and exhibit a poverty of empathy when it comes to placing her within the context of the story. It has little to do with subtext--you simply don't have to like the character as a person and that fact has gone over your head.

>>19940017
>The subtext is that no one can prove her wrong.
I understand there's a lot of girlboss media around anon but I don't think that's what's happening, regardless of whether Rooney agrees with Bobbi (to whatever extent) or not

>>19940201
I think anons also being young and brash is why they miss all this shit

>>19940424
they also need everyone populating their fictions to flop around like cartoon characters and explain themselves in sweaty, wild-eyed soliloquys, à la dostoevsky, because that’s how art truly activates the almonds

>>19940484
Very dissappointing, that
Portrayal vs endorsement is like the first thing you learn

>>19940201
What does loser mean?

>>19940484
>they also need everyone populating their fictions to flop around like cartoon characters and explain themselves in sweaty, wild-eyed soliloquys, à la dostoevsky, because that’s how art truly activates the almonds
this is the most pseud thing I've read on this site

>>19941970
just off the boat eh

>>19941999
No, you're just incomparably cancer

>>19942011
ah, a dostotard. cute

>>19929091
Why the fuck are you talking about socialism

>>19942389
Lol sorry I'm not into politics; I just used socialism as an all encompassing term for whatever Bobbi and Frances are into (which is not even a codified political philosophy in itself). It's just semantics though, you knew what I meant and I don't appreciate the snooty tone you have taken when I put effort into reading, thinking and answering the articles linked by OP.

>>19942453
I have genuinely got no idea what you meant, because I think you hardly do as well.

>>19942530
I don't remember asking for your opinion Tbh

>>19929091

Deeply slappable post, for your prose style alone

>>19942453
>;
>>19929091
>;
>>19929984
>;
>>19929984
>;
>>19930774
>;
>>19930774
>;
>>19929984
>;
>>19929984
>;
>>19932573
>;

Anon... Please..... Shut the fuck up....

>>19942645
I don't follow.

>>19940201
What does recursive mean?

>>19936253
>Tinder rape scene
What about the ramping up of self-harm throughout the book?

>>19942546
Anon.

>>19929091
you're retarded, hundreds of socialists have been elected in dozens of countries, and many of those countries have been or are socialist states. read a book dummy

>>19943128
What?

>>19943211
Not in the West retard. And also if you were familiar with the book you would know the brand of socialism I was referring to was Marxism.

>>19942645
>...

Anon; please; shut the fuck; up.