/lit/ - Literature

>>19919322
Video games are not even art. Your premise is already wrong from the start.

>>19919329
not op but why?

>>19919440
they just aren't ok?

>>19919440
they're software products. is your antivirus art as well?

>>19919329
Video games are supreme art; first of all anything a human makes is art. If you want to talk about good and great art that's subjective: but video games are deffinitly art, they are the most recently invented art form.

If you would call a grandma shitting paint onto a canvas art, or a child finger painting a tree, then surely super Mario bros is a work of art; it contains music: art
Dialogue/plot: literary theatrical art
Costume design/fashion: art
Digital sculpture of bodies and beings drawn: art
Sets and scenes and architecture: art
And something that really makes it stand out, a great innovation, it is interactive with it's public; a painting show at a gallery and concert at a theatre is somewhat interactive, but to actually manipulate and take part in the work of art, that is novel

>>19919322
The people that enjoy them.

>>19919440
You're about to assaulted by a bunch of midwits and you only have yourself to blame.

>>19919468
>first of all anything a human makes is art.
Wrong. Anything you said after that is mistaken.

Trying to powerrank art forms is childish

>>19919476
/thread

Video games aren't art, they're GAMES, so it's the same category as chess, football etc.

>>19919322
Video games are the highest art form and as such are the hardest to create truly great art. There has not been one video game master piece in the last 70 years. Its likely that there will never be one because of how commercialized the art form has become. Maybe if you somehow separate the fandom into high art (for the nobles) and low art (for the console kiddos) will you get people willing to spend the time to master video game creation.

>>19919523
>Video games are the highest art form
>this is what /v/erminfags actually believe
embarrassing

>>19919322
>Genre Films
>low art
Film Noirs, Spaghetti Westerns, and Samurai films would like to have a word

THERE ARE GOOD ART, BAD ART, AND POETICAL ART, INSTRUMENTAL ART; THE «HIGH ART – LOW ART» DUPLEX IS A SPURIOUS ILLUSTRISTIC DICHOTOMY.

>>19919540
I honestly think genre cinema is superior to many so-called arthouse cinema (which basically means a movie is slow, realistic and 'contemplative'). Sergio Leone is a far more exciting filmmaker than Tarkovsky.

>>19919564
>GOOD ART, BAD ART
Another spurious dichotomy. Define good art and and bad art, go ahead.

>>19919574
Good art = entertaining to me
Bad art = boring to me

>>19919468
>Video games are supreme art

>>19919523
>Video games are the highest art form and as such are the hardest to create truly great art.
If gamers actually wanted art (they don't), this would make a lick of sense.

>>19919500
And if the inventors of video games had instead called them: Video Art Playings ...
Your opinion would change? A rose of any other name

video games have the theoretical potential to become art, but so far there haven't been any games with the sufficient aesthetic merit or depth of ideas to demonstrate the medium's latent artistic potential. so far video games are where film was before 1910, a novelty entertainment medium still toying with what exactly it can do as art.

all arguments saying that "x video game has great writing therefore it is art" is falling into the same trap that people who compare cinema to theater commit. it isn't storylines or dialogue that define cinema, likewise it isn't writing or dialogue that would make video games art. would-be video game artists still have to figure out what exactly video games do uniquely that would make them art. once this is uncovered, how to make a video game of aesthetic heft will seem obvious.

>>19919667
Video games most closely, as an artform, mimic the supreme artist God, in the sum total of world creation, therefore

>>19919718
>Dude I can interact with tech things, therefore, I am a God!
lmao absolutely peak bugman tier view

>>19919714
Dark souls is art defined by its gameplay and how it specifically gives you the story through exploration. Both of these aspects are unique/specific to games and no other medium can emulate it. Retarded post. Kill yourself

>>19919468
no this is a retarded take you get from believing words can be used interchangeably. you are calling something art as a compliment as in to say it is a good thing. you then confuse yourself into thinking anything that you can enjoy = art if its good enough

>>19919667
>posts anime
the irony

>>19919922
>NOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T POST IMAGES, THAT'S LE IRONIC!
kek absolute state of /v/ugmen.

>>19919594
based

>>19919895
>it has a story therefore it's art
haha stfu

>>19919440
Gaming is largely a power fantasy to be acted out by the player according to whatever world the creators have crafted. I think because there is too much interaction between the player/viewer and world that has been crafted by the creators, it can never be viewed as "art". Everything else that gets categorized as art seems to be entirely passive. The whole video games=art argument falls apart even more as you get into competitive games. You would never categorize sports as art (its sport).

>>19919322
The former are mostly indie or at least the creator has a lot of autonomy, the latter requires money from shareholders.

>>19920587
There's no audience for kitschy literary fiction or arthouse cinema. If it lacks beauty, it's immediately filtered and no one is exposed to it. Contrast with the other mediums you mentioned, where people are engaging with it for reasons other than seeking beauty.

>>19919322
>art thread
>not including painting sculpting drawing photography etc
???

>>19920512
Your a retard and missed my point. I’m saying that the gaming medium has a way to send a message no other medium can through gameplay. How does this not fury your definition of art? Your just being a pretentious faggot

>>19920622
There’s a lot of indie game creators that are also successful enough. Braindead comment

>>19919322
>High Art
>Arthouse Cinema
keep dreaming, imdbchuds

>>19920587
There are definitely sport plays that are artistic

>>19921243
>muh indie game creators
Those are terribly made because they require lots of investment to make.

>>19919322
Emphasis on shock, emotional reaction and attachment makes it kitsch.
Not implying that kitsch can't be fun to consume.

>>19919895
if I were asked to give an example of games being art, it would be dark souls.

>>19919468
Name a single videogame you 100% entirely believe that people will be playing in 100, 500, or 1000 years time. There are several works of literature and architecture, for instance, which are thousands of years old but still produce in those who view them a kind of ecstatic reverie. I liek vidya games, don't get me wrong, but they're like mental junk food. Don't tell any eye-tallions ITT but I like papa juans pizza, too. But I'm not about to sit here and seriously try to argue that such an obviously low-grade culinary disaster as big daddy John's 'za somehow deserves to be put in the same category as something a serious, Billy Mitchell star chef could shit on to a plate.

Games are the same kind of art as muh comics, blockbuster flix, porn, stand up comedy, etc. It's good, fun, and there's nothing wrong with it. But it's shit art.

>>19919468
right and wrong.
as in all other arts, videogames CAN BE art, but that does not mean that "videogames are art".
Was film, in its inception, not seen as videogames are seen now, as a piece of garbage made to satisfy a consumerist society? And yet with time it has somewhat mended this initial infamy, but despite having some directors make great films, many more only make films as business. No one will say that Marvel and other capeshit is "art", but you've got directors like Kubrick or Kurosawa, which many will defend as great artists. I believe videogames can be like this.
Otherwise, you can argue in the opposite direction: if painting is art, is a 5 year-old's scribble to be considered art? No, because it lacks skill. Is furry porn to be considered art? No, because it does not intend to show virtue or beauty. Then it is clear that not all paintings are art, but no one will say that "painting is not art".
So why would videogames be any different? Because there are not enough examples of truly great artistic videogames? Fair point, but that doesn't mean there isn't any potential in the gaming experience, and to ignore that potential is folly. After all, and unlike all other forms of art, the player can have an impact on a story, and change details, and to progress he needs skill (martial arts need skill and still they are called martial "arts"), and the game may show beauty, as painting or music does; and it may show truth as literature does; and it may do a myriad of other things, if only the developers had the will to make it so. Alas, their noblest will is to merely entertain!

>>19922065
Video games are extremely new and I wouldn't be shocked if some are played in the future. I would guess that the best movies, video games, recorded music will be carried into the future, anon. It seems to be the pattern for most mainstream art forms.

That being said I can't name you a video game now because I don't play them as I am not an faggot.

>>19921310
definitely. ozil passes were highly artistic on his season with real madrid. maradona has done art on the field. but ultimately you have to separate the play itself of the environment it has been made. the play can be artistic, but is part of the sport. with that said is actually difficult to define art. because if the pursue wasnt artistic at first, there are lot of thingds that can be artistic. i think that it is better to define them (these situations that take part in sport environment) as mystical. the difference between mystical and artistic is that artistic is purely theoretical, it is not a way of surviving in the world. it does not solve a problem. mystical does. so ozil messi or beckenbauer (beloved by heidegger) are manifestations of the mystical because they involve the world and a problem to be solved.

>>19919500
this is the most midwit reason for why games aren't set.
>Hurrdurh it's in the name
videos games can be art though some obviously aren't. if someone is constructing a narrative, thinking about themes in said narrative and how best to show them to the player how can you not say it is art? The fact that the viewer can give some input is irrelevant.

>>19919322
These threads invariably suffer from the fact that nobody even bothers with an attempt to define "art" in the first place, nevermind what makes it "high" or "low." Of course this very much reflects commonplace usage of the word, which is generally applied purely by fuzzy intuition and an "I know it when I see it" approach. Hence the eternally fruitless arguments over whether modern art should be considered art at all. Everyone is working off their own private definition of the term. Reasoned discussion is rendered impossible. And why should shitposters on /lit/ succeed where even serious scholars have failed?

>>19919322
>Cinema
>high art

>>19922301
>muh definition
>muh scholars

The lack of the above is the virtue of such a thread. Theorycels are a plague. You get more out of a loose discussion like this than you do trying pretend you're submitting a """"serious"""" article for The Journal of Cambodian Potterymaking Philosophy. Have you read much modern philosophical scholarship? If you don't already want to kill yourself then reading that shit will make you want to, if only to make something more interesting happen. One of the more recent trends has been metaphilosophy, which I take to be a tacit acknowledgment on the part of academia that EVEN THEY KNOW that they talk like fags and their shits all retarded.