/lit/ - Literature

>>19888871
Shakespeare is less onions

M I L T O N

>>19888871
Dante

>>19888871
No one has ever written something on the scale, structure, pure poetry, thematic richness and execution as Dante did with the Divine Comedy. Shakespeare was a strange sonneteer, calling to clone a man for his beauty or some other nonsense.

>>19888871
King David

>>19888871
D A N T E

>>19888871
By what metric? "The best" is such a juvenile thing to give a fuck about, go read a book dickhead

DANTE ALIGHIERI

>>19888871
Gilgamesh

>>19888888
Checked

>>19888871
Dante is better, which is unfortunate because it gives the ESLs something to gloat about

>>19888888
DUDE

>>19888892
>The best" is such a juvenile thing
Poetry is for the youth.

>>19888871
>the work of Homer is no unconscious fashioning of Nature's, but something infinitely higher; perhaps, the plainest manifestation of a godlike knowledge of all that lives.

>Perhaps the poetic power bestowed on Dante was the greatest e'er within the reach of mortal

>[Shakespeare's] work is the only veritable Drama; and what that implies, as work of Art, is shewn by our rating its author the profoundest poet of all time.

Billy Wigglestick all the way, bby!

>>19888915
>Scottland flag
>not choosing Burns

>>19888914
wagner was such a melodramatic individual

>>19888914
Another shit take. Thanks, Richard.

>>19888871
You know who.

>>19888888
.

>>19888888
digits of truth. check em.

>>19888930
Goethe is one of the best, not the best.

The best is either Shakespeare or Dante.

>>19888947
Why is Shakespeare even in the conversation? He wrote sonnets and plays. Dante wrote The Divine Comedy (!).

>>19888930
Goethe was the greatest individual, not the greatest poet.

>>19888950
Shakespeare is the creator of Lear, Hamlet, Iago and Falstaff. He is the poet of the Sonnets who wrote Macbeth, Othello, Hamlet and the sublime King Lear (The death of the Christian God).

Dante wrote the best Comedy, but Shakespeare has the best Tragedy.

>>19888888
PSEUDS BTFOED

SOR JUANA INÉS DE LA CRUZ.

>>19889051
El Sueño es increíble, no te lo niego. Pero tú estás demente si de verdad crees que puedes comparar a Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz con Dante o Shakespeare, o al Sueño con obras maestras como la Divina Comedia o King Lear.

>EL ANGLOSAJÓN DE WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE ERA UN ATEO HEREJE DE FUERTES TENDENCIAS GNÓSTICAS QUE EN SUS DESVARÍOS ESCRIBIÓ UNA INFINITUD DE BLASFEMIAS
Esto no es crítica, esto es sentimentalismo. Ni siquiera se sabe cuáles eran las creencias de Shakespeare, todas sus obras son invenciones en vez de opiniones personales.

probably one of the late 19th or early 20th century hungarians, but since no one speaks the langue, they are lost to obscurity outside their own nation

>>19889100

Kevin cabron de mierda

literally everything is a derivative of Homer

>>19888871
>was
is*
Poopi Kaur

>>19888888
trying to leave pol habits behind forever, but nice digits, my metaphysical brother

>>19889178
this guy's a trip.
read Attila József.

I think it's the guy who wrote the psalms lol

>>19888930
If we consider Faust a poem, yes.

>>19888914
He really was a pretentious fag

>>19888917
lmfao burns wrote in shite scottish english
not english
not scottish english
just some artificial mix
and hes not the best from scotland anyway

>>19888871
Ovid

>>19888871
Homer

>>19889383
Cringe

>>19888871

>>19889238
>pol habits
Gets are originally chan culture and not /pol/ culture. /pol/ happens to be on a chan, thus gets are incorporated into /pol/.

Also you sound like a massive newfag and should lurk moar.

Are there good English translations of dante

>>19889557
No.

Ossian is the best

>>19889557
>Are there good English translations
No.

>>19889570
idiot

>>19888930
Goethe is nothing

>>19889557
Longfellow.

>>19888914
basiert

>>19888888
Sexts of truth.

Pseuds posturing the thread.

You retards are so boring and under-read.

.

>>19888910
>be native speaker of some random african tongue
>take pride in the fact that dante's native tongue was also not english
>be part of world-spanning ESL heritage that includes Dante

>>19888888
Checked.

That part where David cucks Uriah and then sends him into war to die is fucking bonkers.

2 Samuel 11:1-12:9

>>19889446
baza

>>19888914
Why are germans such bootlickers of the anglos? Today, they are complicitly destroying their culture and language for the globohomo American culture in english.

>>19889189
Hermano, >>19889100 just blew you the fuck out. Have some humility instead of just replying with some sassy gif. That's why most /lit/izens hate you. Not because your kingdom is not of this world and that the world will persecute you or whatever, no, it's simply because you tend to be a pain in the ass. Grow up a little.

>>19888871
Me

>>19889570
IM learning Russian now so that I can read the great novels in the original and because I want to go there eventually but why would anyone learn Italian if they weren't living there the divine comedy (as brilliant as it may be) and a few other decent writers is not a good enough incentive when you look at the output of other countries.
Honestly id learn Latin before I did Italian.

>>19889570
Im learning Russian now so that I can read the great novels in the original and because I want to go there eventually but why would anyone learn Italian if they weren't living there. The divine comedy (as brilliant as it may be) and a few other decent writers is not a good enough incentive when you look at the output of other countries.
Honestly id learn Latin before I did Italian.

>>19890981
This guy probably

Currently learning latin so one day I can read Virgil I hope it's worth it

>>19891057
It will be anon, there's lots of other great stuff to read in Latin as well, Virgil is only the tip of the iceberg.

>>19891069
I know, I am very stoked about the whole thing. Being able to choose from the thousand year corpus of latin texts feels like touching immortality. Once I hit cruising speed with latin maybe I'll even start Greek.

Life isn't so bad after all, we're all gonna make it

>>19891099
You should really look into becoming a classicist if you really take to it.

>>19891107
What do you mean by becoming a classicist ? Simply focusing my readings on classical philosophy and literature, or something more like a classics major in college? My days of being a student are almost completely behind me unfortunately.

>>19891149
Research, write, and teach is what I meant.

>>19888888
Blessed by numbers.

>>19890563
What Bible is picrel?

>>19890852
Because Anglos are the 'germans' who actually made it.

>>19888888
Checked.

unironically though

>>19891159
Alas, I am finishing a master's degree in law, and by the end of the year I'll be taking the bar exam.

I have the rest of my life to figure things out though.

>>19889051
Tfw no autistic nun gf
Also she is not in the level of Dante, still good though

>>19888871

>>19891252

>>19888871
Dante doesn't even compete. But you've probably read neither.

>>19889189
lmao

>tfw milton borrowed his ideas from Ossian

>>19888871
why are anglos so deluded they think it is even comparable
the cope

>>19892032
Spotted the guy who’s never read Shakespeare.

He’s right here, guys.

>>19890444
trips of truth
yes yes, we all know english translaions of dante is the best poetry ever.. why would there be any other answers?? oh right, someone posted Eliot, you guys rlly know your stuff!

>>19892332
English translations of Dante and Homer, TS Eliot, Shakespeare, and maybe Milton. The most insufferably banal yet predicatable thread of all time.

I didn't love Dante as much as I thought I would and other people seem to. The thematic execution and personable moments in Comedy are great but the writing itself was less beautiful than say Homer. Are English translations bunk or did I just get filtered?

>>19892712
>Are English translations bunk
Yes, as an Italian I can't see how is writing will ever be less beautiful than anything.
All poetry, sadly, cannot be experienced the same way in different languages.

>>19892712
Any translation of the Comedy will be bad, you can't translate poetry. If you haven't read the whole thing in the original Italian you haven't read the Divine Comedy.

Yes, you get filtered, and you haven't read the real deal.

>>19888888
witnessed

>>19891259
It is so fun the prank through history of men who think they are great and worthy enough to carry on the tradition of the portrait with the right hand tucked in the seam

>>19888914
>>19893672
Case point

>>19888871
Of the two I definitely prefer Shakespeare. Dante is far too medieval and Christian to be regarded as the 'universal poet' that some have called him.

>>19888947
People only say this because most people here probably just read Faust Part 1 and nothing else. Read some of his other plays and especially his lyric poetry which imho is almost untouchable. Then you'll see why he's definitely a GOAT contender.

>>19893961
It is unfortunate that any paper, ink, energy, time, genius would have to be wasted to convince people to be ethical

>>19893961
>lyric poetry
Which is best of the best? Post some excerpts please

>>19889283
Faust is an epic poem yes.

>>19893993
In my opinion, no other poet except for maybe some of the other German Romantics, do such a good job of writing truly beautiful melodic verse with remarkable imagery while at the same time blending spiritual and philosophical themes and also capturing the (at least in my opinion) the same heroic ethos of the Greeks.
>best of the best?
My favorite overall is probably Harzreise im Winter.
https://books.google.com/books?id=A4KiUVIqQxEC&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=harzreise+im+winter+john+whaley&source=bl&ots=6dV73w_MES&sig=ACfU3U1Ln1d5otPhoeB2_4TdPoCoxdLGGw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiK3erh7_H1AhVsjIkEHahBBo4Q6AF6BAgKEAM#v=onepage&q=harzreise%20im%20winter%20john%20whaley&f=false

>>19893961
>Dante is far too medieval and Christian to be regarded as the 'universal poet' that some have called him.
They are different types of universalism; you have the classless universalism of Shakespeare and the elitist universalism of Dante; and it was this aristocratic universalism of Dante that opened the era of the greatest Western writers, from Petrarch to Holderlin; but it is true that Shakespeare and Cervantes were the ones who fully achieved universality, but that was because they were populist authors in the greatest of aristocratic eras, you cannot compare Shakespeare who was the poet of the people, with Dante, the poet of the poets, it is true that each one is universal, but Dante is not for the groundlings.

Of the two I definitely prefer Dante.

>Dante is far too medieval and Christian
Dante's progeny among writers are his true canonizers, and not always an openly devoted mix: Petrarch, Boccaccio, Chaucer, Shelley, Rossetti, Yeats, Joyce, Pound, Eliot, Borges, Stevens, Beckett. Almost everything that this dozen has in common is Dante, all of them are twelve different Dantes in their poetic beyond. Having said that, what is the problem with the best poet in history being a Christian?.

>Goethe
Of the two I definitely prefer Dante. He is definitely the GOAT.

>>19894072
>it was this aristocratic universalism of Dante that opened the era of the greatest Western writers, from Petrarch to Holderlin
This doesn't make sense at all. The fuck do you even mean by "aristocratic universalism"?

>Almost everything that this dozen has in common is Dante, all of them are twelve different Dantes in their poetic beyond.
All of them had dozens of other influences besides Dante. The only one that you could call a 'different Dante' is Petrarch.

>what is the problem with the best poet in history being a Christian?.
There's nothing wrong at all with whether Dante himself was Christian but how the Comedy itself is. It's far too much a product of its time and place to be truly relatable to others I think. Granted, you could say the same about lots of other works but the Divine Comedy espouses a very distinctly medieval Catholic understanding of the world and the afterlife. By contrast, I feel I can relate to something like the epic of Gilgamesh much more despite being much further removed in time because the setting and characters are situated in real world places and deal with real human problems.

That's not to mention how much of the Comedy's narrative is concerned with detailing the lives and sins of so many different people who mean nothing to the modern reader.

>>19894142
I think the way I worded the second paragraph was a bit clunky but what I'm really trying to say is that to truly 'get' Dante you have to read him while holding the same Christian views that he does otherwise much of the meaning is either lost or simply leaves no impact.

>>19894142
Not anon you responded to but I see what you mean. Personally being familiar with the general arc and content of the story, I kind of dread reading it, being so confined to a singular topic and relative setting, sin and punishment. How beautiful and high can the poetry really get, I geuss I have to read for my self, but are there many passages expressing the beauties and goods of the world.

I geuss it's also just off-putting duebto all the dreadful subject matter, the brutality of punishments, even if one considers themselves good and righteous and holy, must there be something partially sick and perverted of them to take pleasure in, to consider the best poetic substance to be descriptions of grotesque punishments?

>>19888888
Divinely inspired poetry for the win!

me
https://discord.gg/86vz9vtn

>>19889551
it was hitler dubs you massive faggot
lurk moar

>>19889008
Yes, but his tragedies are not poems, but, well tragedies. Under that argument I can claim that Calderón de la Barca is the best poet.

>>19889100
King Lear is not a poem. Let's remember what is the entire poetic works by Shakespeare: Sonnets, Venus and Adonis, The Rape of Lucrece and The Phoenix and Turtle. Well, first none of them is an exponent of literature comparable to the Commedia if you're going to be honest. His sonnets are not an innovative reference nor of rhythm, nor of theme, nor of metaphors (see Góngora for that matter), Venus and Adonis was a romantic product of the time and did not treated consciousness or morality as his tragedies, and while The Rape of Lucrece does have some of these, in general it's not as good as poems.
The innovations of Shakespeare are mostly scattered through his tragedies and comedies, not his poems and pretending he is one of the most important poets of all times is an offense to actual poets like Dante, Homer, sor Juana, Yeats, or almost any other cited in this thread.

>>19888888

>>19888871
Shakespeare obviously

>>19888888
checked holy shit

>>19891254
the hardest pill to swallow

Edmund Spenser. Filtering plebs for 400 years.