/lit/ - Literature

confess your sins, /clg/

>>19847325
I did not read any Latin for three days.

Can't wait for this thread to devolve into yet another screeching contest between LLPSI autists and grammar faggots

$120 dollars for a vulgate bible
rip

>>19847340
Don’t forget Ranieriposting

>>19847325
I write furry works in Latin to practice grammar concepts. I wrote a short story about a wolf who came into the house of a lonely widow and was slowly seduced by her overtime to practice ut/ne clauses.

PBVH

>>19847350
worth it

>>19847444
So glad I picked up AG so i dont have to associate with you freaks

>>19847477
Why would someone call their son Amadeus, named after Mozart? Are his parents just as autistic and egotistical as he is?

>>19847477

>>19847350
Shouldn't cost that much
https://www.die-bibel.de/en/shop/originaltexte/neues-testament/vulgata-5303
You can read it here for free also
https://www.academic-bible.com/en/online-bibles/biblia-sacra-vulgata/read-the-bible-text/

>>19847477

>be me
>study latin for over 7 years, including college level coursework and daily reading practice, LLPSI in full twice, entire Vulgate, etc
>still can't read Virgil or Ovid or tacitus without dismantling every sentence like a retard and looking up dozens of words per page
>also be me
>study french for six months by doing duolingo for 15 minutes a day and browsing memes
>can already read voltaire, rousseau, camus etc reasonably well

Wtf is with Latin? Why is it filtering me so hard, is it really that much more difficult than other languages? How can I learn it properly?

>>19848074
Force yourself to process everything in the order that it's written.

>>19848074
Do you translate in your head when you read? Because if you do you'll never move past the dismantling stage and begin to read fluently. Unfortunately academia doesn't teach you that. I mean, you have professors of Latin who can't even read the language properly

>>19848079
>>19848087
Not him, but is there any other way? Have I been doing it wrong for 2 years? WHAT the FUCK, bros?!?!?!

>>19848046
>https://www.die-bibel.de/en/shop/originaltexte/neues-testament/vulgata-5303
That's like $105 + shipping so it's even worse

>>19848118
The cost + shipping should be 91 USD, converting from Euros. It would be cheaper if you could buy it in the USA, which you could previously, but I can't find it anywhere now.

>>19848132
I live in Australia

>>19848141
Lord have mercy.

>its the autist that hates people writing in latin to practice it again

>>19848074
To be fair, Virgil and Ovid are poets and Tacitus is probably the hardest prose writer. If you finished Familia Romana and have read the entire Vulgate, then you should be able to read most prose reasonably well.

Get more reading under your belt: Roma Aeterna, Sermones Romani, Epitome Historiae Sacrae, Fabulae Syrae, Wheelock's Reader, 38 Latin Stories, Aesop's Fables, Fabulae Faciles, Via Latina, Pugio Bruti, Ad Alpes, etc...

If there is a single thing I listed that you haven't read yet, then invest a couple bucks and make sure you have exhausted every single piece of beginner reading material. Just doing Familia Romana and the Vulgate is good, but my man you need more reading.

>>19848141
Take the self printing pill. Download the ebook you want, print it (you'll need a duplex printer), bind the pages and there you go now you have a physical copy of a book

>>19848141
my condolences

>>19848155
>To be fair,
13 year olds used to read them in schools

>>19848155
Not him, but I'm reading Pugio Bruti now and it's very easy. If you've finished LLPSI part 1 then you'll be able to read it easily. It's much easier than Fabulae Faciles.
Here are my rankings so far, from what I've read in Latin (easiest to hardest, not including LLPSI itself obviously):
Colloquia Personarum
Fabellae Latinae
Pugio Bruti
Fabulae Syrae
Fabulae Faciles

>>19848171
With dictionaries, over the course of months, for the purpose of translation.

The old style is not better if that is what you are implying. And in medieval times the romance languages were a lot closer so a native Italian could read it a lot better if instructed professionally.

>>19848190
>The old style is not better if that is what you are implying
okay but you arent fluent in latin so why do you act like the master of it?

>>19848087
You dont read Latin

>>19848196
>okay but you aren't fluent in latin so why do you act like the master of it?

Why do people do this shit in every thread?

Jesus Christ anytime someone disagrees you people just say "DURR YOU AINT EVEN FLUENT BRO"

I'm trying to help you fuckin asshole.

>>19848074
>>19848115
Take a look at this short book, The Art of Reading Latin by William Gardner Hale (1887), which explains the problem. It's around 70 pages but you probably don't need to read the whole thing to get the idea. Pic related. You can read it for free here:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Art_of_Reading_Latin/HB0BAAAAYAAJ

mad how the lispi mong claims people learnt latin by using dictionaries, which didnt exist, and just forcing the latin to make sense until in the 1990s people stopped it and changed to perfect method
or they spoke italian and so just guessed at latin with their language

>>19848203
He's the Scottish Ossian shitposter. He's anti-LLPSI, he thinks no one is fluent in Latin and he thinks no one can speak Latin. What I think happened with him is that he failed to learn Latin, so now he thinks no one else can learn Latin just because he couldn't.

>>19848201
Cope

>>19848204
Very nice! Thank you.

>>19848203
>"DURR YOU AINT EVEN FLUENT BRO"
yes it is worrying that you arent fluent but are trying to tell people the best way to learn it
>>19848204
so in short actually try writing in latin
wow well done just doing what medieval people

>>19848212
You can't even write a complete sentence in English, you fucking chimp.

>>19848205
In the past people had Latin drilled into them for hours every day since childhood. If you are an adult and don't want to spend a decade getting to a basic reading level you need a different method.

>>19848212
>so in short actually try writing in latin
>wow well done just doing what medieval people
That's not what the excerpt says. Also whenever people type in Latin to you, you never respond. Why is that? Did you fail to learn Latin, Scottish Autist?

>its another episode of lispi retards that arent even half way through the book acting like they are experts on latin teaching

>>19848220
>you
you are a schizo
>Scottish
im not scottish

seems youre the schizo if you are inventing charcters in your head

but anyway go and type latin to me then

>>19848212
I wasn't telling people the best way to learn anything???

I was recommending some extra reading material. All I did was name some graded readers WHICH I USE. How is this even remotely controversial?

>>19848227
>acting like experts
LMAO don't recommend reading material to people who are struggling with reading unless you have 5 PHDs.

>>19848229
>but anyway go and type latin to me then
>You wanna take this outside bro? Do you even lift?

>>19848234
>recommend
" you need"

>>19848236
>you cant speak latin
>okay type latin to me
>...
k schizo

>>19848237
>full quote
"you need more reading"

The most controversial language learning opinion in the history of pedagogy.

>>19848244
Why do you derail every thread? You've never once come in here and said anything constructive, shared links to helpful materials, given advice, encouraged anyone in their studies, lended your linguistic expertise, or said anything even remotely insightful.

You just call people names, challenge people to keyboard battles, and discourage anyone from trying to succeed.

>>19848271
He's an autistic Scottish NEET. His life is going nowhere, so he's permanently bitter.

>>19848271
you derailed it not me
i just said reading tacitus isnt hard

>>19848271
>You just call people names, challenge people to keyboard battles, and discourage anyone from trying to succeed
Where exactly do you think you are?

>>19848276
Tacitus is most definitely hard. If you think he's easy you're probably not understanding him properly

>still no reply in latin
state

>>19848295
semper ubi sub ubi

>>19848296
pervert thats none of your business

>>19848276
>Tacitus isn't hard
Is this guy larping or something?

>1/3 of replies are about me
good

Literally a waste of time learning Latin. Better to learn a language with practical, real-world use like Syriac or Ge'ez.

Welp I'm gonna wait this thread dies then come back next time.

>>19848329
yeah
lispis retard bombing another good thread
sick

tfw starting to think in Greek participles

ROMA
IN
ITALIA
EST

SAY IT WITH ME!

>>19848378
RooOOOOHHHmuh in iiiiitaaAAAAAliest

>>19848390
Don't you love it when he doesn't pronounce the ending consonants

>>19848390
uuUUUUUbi est roooooooooma? in itaaaaaaaaaaaaaalia

>>19848407
Romans would elide the word ending -m. It sounds retarded though when people try to replicate it.

>>19848416
Right like French liaison.

But it's awful for someone who is using his audiobooks to learn the vocab and declensions when he doesn't pronounce the different case endings.

>>19848422
It's not even something that has use outside of metrical scansion. Just LARPing.

>>19847320
Does anybody know which publisher publishes biblical apocrypha (both OT and NT) in their original language, either in monolingual or bilingual format? Which editions do bible scholars use?

>>19848440
I don't know, but you would be able to find the answer by looking at academic translations of the material and reading the introductory material to find out what sources they used to translate from.

retard-free alternatives to this shithole thread on this shithole site:

textkit.com
latin.stackexchange.com
latindiscussion.com

Roma EST in Italia!

In Italia Roma est.

>>19848489
Ubi est Imperium Romanum? In Roma est? Non est in Roma. In Italia est? Non est in Italia. Imperium Romanum in Byzantio est.

>>19848468

Ubi est populus Romanus? Populus Romanus in Graecia est.

>>19848516
citation needed

>>19847340
yeah...

>>19848523
Ubi est sedes Imperatoris Romani? In Roma est? Non est in Roma. Sedes Imperatoris Romani in Constantinopolis est.

I saw this sentence written on an old shelf at the bookstore: Hoc monumentum magno pretio quod aliter in manus publicanorum quandoque cecidisset aedificatum est. But I can figure out it’s exact meaning. Im taking it something like ‘this monument with great value which otherwise should have fallen in the hand of public funds has been built” but I can’t figure out what quandoque is doing. Any anons can help me? I’ve been wondering for days without recourse.

>>19848580
i'd say "this 'monument' which otherwise would've felt sooner or later in the hands of publicani was built at a great cost"
quandoque = sooner or later
but the phrase does sound off without context

>>19848468
based

>>19848074
You're a brainlet. Time to kill yourself.

>>19847325
I've never read The Odyssey. Not in Greek and not in translation.

ROME IS IN ITALY

>>19848074
Knowing Latin makes it much easier to learn any romance language. Try doing Duolinguo German or Polish as an experiment.
I also find it easier to learn spoken languages than dead ones, because I remember a word better after hearing it than reading it.

>>19848646
Ah thank you very much anon. I agree with you now and that clears everything up nicely

the virgin τῷ vs. the chad τῶι vs. the gigachad ΤΩΙ

Ubi est genus hominum alborum? Est in America? Non est in America. In America est genus hominum nigrorum.

>>19847325
I'm guilty of sloth, vainglory, pride, delusion, megalomania, acedia...

>>19848873
In America est genus simiorum nigrorum*

this thread is filled with so many mean people.

>>19849111
Ignore them. Don't give them the satisfaction.

I’m not going to lie bros…i haven’t been reading Latin lately

>>19848866
>τω

>>19849205
Me neither. Too depressed

>>19847444
checked

post an excerpt

Ubi est ianitor? Est in filum? Non est in filum.
Ianitor stipendium accipit? Non stipendium accipit.

>>19849242
in filo*
typo est

Ossiani carmina latine bona non sunt
Nimis rectus

>>19849242
Bro. Just stop.

>>19849387
Quis est frater tuus? Frater tuus non sum.

>>19849415
you wouldnt type like that in engish
it just comes across as someone that cant speak latin well

>>19849428
I believe you might be on to something

>>19849428
It's making fun of Lingua Latina, anon. No need to get your panties in a twist.

>>19849441
I believe I am. Hes typing in really short simple sentences showing how he isn't really sure how to make longer ones in my opinion.
Not saying its a bad thing but I'm just saying he needs to practise more.

>>19849467
That is him practicing, retard

>>19849499
So mean…

>>19849467
It's this >>19849446. That why it's all in questions and answers. Other people were doing it earlier
>>19848378
>>19848390
>>19848413
>>19848472
>>19848475

Guys please stop bullying eachother. Let's work hard and learn languages together!

GREEK CONTRACT VERBS ARE FUCKING STUPID

>>19849583
Don't give up anon, I believe in you! Just keep trying. You are able to do this.

Instead of repetitive shitposting, tell me what text you are currently reading. Why did you choose it? What do you like about it? What is challenging? Post a line or two for us to translate.

I'm looking for a text that is both understandable for a relative beginner, but also interesting to read. The Vulgate is readable, but not interesting. Caesar is still too much of a slog. Eutropius hit that sweet spot for me, but I finished his brevarium.

>>19849609
Have you tried Phaedrus or Cornelius Nepos? That is around your level.

>>19849583
it's the exceptions that make it hard.
>oh, you thought it would be διετέλησε, no it's διετέλεσε because the root τελεσ like in τελος comes up again.
>you thought πλέω and δέω would be conjugated the same? think again, because it used to be πλέFω which is why the ε is kept uncontracted except in the 3rd person singular and the F will appear again as a υ before ς ἔπλευσε

>>19849609
Reading Lysias I atm. My first text since finishing my textbook. After that I might read a few more speeches from him or just move on to Plato.

>>19849609
Titi Livii Ab urbe condita, quod etsi iam Tacitum cognovi illum suumque scribendi genus obliquum, tamen mihi optavi aliquid facilius atque de urbis priscis gestis narrans
Vergilii Aeneis quoque, eo quod nuper tandem expertus sum cupidinem carminum versuum, mirum vero, ut perpateam, quod artibus illis poeticis numquam adhuc delectatus sum

cum exempla rogavisti, ecce versus quosdam a Virgilio scriptos quibus quodammodo nuper laborabam.

Aspice bis senos laetantes agmine cycnos,
aetheria quos lapsa plaga Iovis ales aperto
turbabat caelo; nunc terras ordine longo
aut capere, aut captas iam despectare videntur:
ut reduces illi ludunt stridentibus alis,
et coetu cinxere polum, cantusque dedere,
haud aliter puppesque tuae pubesque tuorum
aut portum tenet aut pleno subit ostia velo

>>19849609
>what text you are currently reading
ossiani carmina

>>19849714
Fuck off, Scottish Autist.

reading through some posts here it seems like reading some of the best known latin writers like ovid takes many years of studying, which seems a bit off putting to me

how easy would it be to just read through LLPSI?
i'll most likely won't continue learning afterwards, but the textbook seems very fun and i think that very basic knowledge of Latin couldn't hurt

>>19849789
>how easy would it be to just read through LLPSI?
Not too difficult if you memorize the grammar paradigms first.

>>19849789
You can do a chapter every 2-3 days. And you will be able to read the Vulgate and some Medieval Latin with relative ease.

Poets like Virgil, Horace, & Ovid are only hard because they are poets and Roman poetry is a separate animal in itself. Start with guys like Catullus and Sallust.

The prose isn't as bad as everyone says. It'll be a while before you can get to Tacitus, but getting to Cicero & Livy isn't as hard as a lot of people say. Read lots of novellas, the Vulgate, Medieval Latin and authors like Caesar, Eutropius, Phaedrus, & Nepos. Just get as much experience as you can. Don't be discouraged by these grumpy bums.

Why don't you guys like Greek?

>>19849858
It's too hard.

>>19849858
I think people are just upset about some aspects of the language which are difficult.

>>19849858
Because I learned Latin first

>>19849866
For me I couldn't memorize all the principle parts of verbs

>>19849836
If I started learning Latin tomorrow through LLPSI how long would it approximately take for me to be able to read Vulgate with ease? What about Cicero?

Even if there isn't much to explore in ancient Greek, it still transfers to strong untranslated works in modern Greek, including some meganovels, which is a widespread artificial language modeled on ancient Greek. Why aren't there more people doing this?

>>19849878
The book is 35 chapters. Really 33. Chapter 34 is a sample of Catullus' poetry and 35 is just grammar.

I've seen people start reading the Vulgate at chapter 15. So if you do 3 months, around 3 days per chapter, you can definitely do the Vulgate.

>>19849878
>If I started learning Latin tomorrow through LLPSI how long would it approximately take for me to be able to read Vulgate with ease? What about Cicero?

Cicero wouldn't be able to read the Vulgate. He's been dead for a while now.

>>19849897
How is this guy still here, holy shit

>>19849858
I started with Latin because it seemed easier. And now I'm afraid to shift focus with my Latin knowledge so incomplete.

Do you all not read LLPSI part 2?

>>19847320
Any recommended reading order for reading Plato in greek? - What is the easiest of his dialogues language wise?

>>19849886
>Even if there isn't much to explore in ancient Greek
my man what are you smoking?

>>19847733

Yes.

>>19849910
I'd start with his earlier short dialogues like Crito and Ion. The short sentences ease you to his language and their length (less than 15 pages) means there is also less vocab to memorize.

>>19849903
Hope you like verbs because they have six principle parts now and aren't easily connectable to English equivalents like in Latin.

>>19849230
here is a little bit

Vidua rūstica in lectulō sedet et femora candida sternit ut lupus vāgīnam ūmidam capillōsamque
videat. Tam fōrmōsa et aromatica vāgīna eius est ut mentula lupī dūra, īnstar saxum, et longa, īnstar hasta, fiat.

Vidua ait, "venī huc, ō lupe dulcissime!"

Lupus, pārēns ēdictum, lectulō appropinquat et vestem lentē exuit.

Someone vocaroo this please.

>>19849968
delet

>>19849968
I was reading this trying to piece together what author it’s from, then i clicked the replied to post. I feel so sick.. the latin seems good though

https://bridge.haverford.edu/

Check out this amazing tool. It allows you to make word lists for texts you want to read (Latin & Greek). And it also allows you exclude words you already know from books you've read. You can also just add up texts and make normal word lists or use this as a dictionary while you read.

For example you can make a word list of De Bello Gallico of all the words that are not in Wheelock, LLPSI, & Fabulae Faciles in a few clicks.

>>19849968
WHAT the FUCK is wrong with you?!?

>>19849968

>>19849917
That's worthwhile and isn't already translated. There's not much in that puny corpus.

>>19849773
>AHHH NO FUCK OFF STOP DISCUSSING WHAT I ASKED

>>19849950
I'm more put off by learning the alphabet.

>>19850205
that's the piss easy part, even the pitch accents starts clicking fast

>>19850205
Don't worry about that. Many of the letters are similar to English. There are just a few that look like one English letter but are really equivalent to a different one. It's easy though.

>>19850226
>>19850243
Symbols are easy. Sounds are not.

Learning sounds on my own has never gone well in the past. I don't think I can give myself sufficient immersion to learn the correct sounds.

>>19850263
Greek doesn't have any weird sounds. You don't need to bother with replicating the pitch accent.

>>19849968

So where are the Hebrew, Egyptian, Akkadian, Greek, Sanskrit, Persian, Old English, Gaelics, Norse, Classical Chinese, Mayan learners?

>>19850326
So far I've seen 1 Coptic learner, 2 Sanskrit learners, 1 Old English learner, and 1 Classical Chinese learner. Most of us are learning Latin though, so they get drowned out unfortunately

>>19850274
I am talking about simple shit like telling the difference between ε, η, ι or o, ω, υ

I am retarded when it comes to sounds.

>>19850352
I think it'd be okay to use names so I could find them easier

>>19850326
I'm fluent in Sanskrit, not really a learner though you could say I keep reading things in it.

I'm currently Greek again, after a 4 month break.

>>19850326
I was torn between applying to a Classics degree or Old English/Norse/Celtic degree, but decided I can probably pick up Old English at a later point for the limited literature.

My priority tho is learning Homeric Greek for The Iliad.

>>19850355
The sounds are very close to IPA. What don't you get? Ω is just a long Ο and Η is a long E. Maybe check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIgyFqS0UMw

>>19850393
>Greek spoken with American phonetics

way to ruin something beautiful

>>19850384
>Old English/Norse/Celtic degree
nonsense
>>19850326
barley any of them are classical

>>19850355
ε = short e
η = long e
ι = i
o = short o
ω = long o
υ = Latin y or just 'i' if you can't pronounce it

>>19850402
I know, but it's the most accessible material on the subject.

>>19850402
You'll never hear what it sounded like from an ancient Greek person so it's not like it even matters.

>>19850326
>Old English, Gaelics, Norse, Mayan
These are not Classical.

>>19850393
>>19850425
>short and long vowels
Those are identical to me.

>>19850384
Why would you want to study classics? Just get an engineering or business degree and study this as a side hobby.

>>19850463
You can use the modern Greek pronunciation which only has five vowel sounds, but it will make spelling difficult.

>>19850463
no they arent you just dont know it

>>19850466
why is this always the copy&paste reply?

if I went into engineering or business I would be mediocre because I'm ill suited to either. meanwhile, I've got a place at a high ranking university doing classics because it's something I both love and excel at.

>>19850451
There are classics written in them. Stretch your moneys worth

>>19850495
I studied Classics. I don’t regret it for similar reasons as you. Don’t listen to the dumb niggers here. But if you have to take on debt, don’t do it

Literally no nothing but just enrolled in a Latin Language Course offered in my city. We are using Wheelock’s Latin.

Starts in March.

>>19850326
Cramming Greek before the semester starts, it's fun but I wish I had started earlier.

>>19850505
>are classics written in them
A classical language means a non-spoken language that was used for a long time.

none of them have that

>>19850505
>are classics written in them.
not really. the only one with any semi-classic status is Beowulf.

>>19850451
>>19850534
Mayan is classical.
Norse is medieval
Gaelic? Absolutely not.
You can try to argue Old English because of Beowulf, but it's a one trick pony like Dante is for Italian.

>>19850509
>Literally no nothing
We can tell.

>>19850491
That's why I said 'to me'. I understand what the difference is, but I cannot 'hear' it.

>>19850467
My fear is that it will end up like my attempts to learn modern greek and Russian, where I simply had no sounds associated with words at all, and just learned to recognize the 'shapes' of words, as if they were hieroglyphics. This made it impossible to recall spelling or produce words.

>>19850546
so if your definition of classical is having a classic book then how is mayan classical and gaelic isnt?

>>19850551
>My fear is that it will end up like my attempts to learn modern greek and Russian, where I simply had no sounds associated with words at all, and just learned to recognize the 'shapes' of words, as if they were hieroglyphics. This made it impossible to recall spelling or produce words.
Learn the sounds and then read through a bunch of texts without understanding what they mean, just using them as pronunciation practice.

>>19850562
Because it records the extensive mythology and history of an ancient civilization and is inscribed in both codices as well as temples. It is the only original pre-Columbian writing system on 2 entire continents.

Gaelic is a sloppily put together, small collection of incoherent fragmentary tales that doesn't even have it's own script. Name a single Gaelic tale with historical significance? You'd be better off learning Welsh for the Arthurian Romance and sub-Roman histories than learning that shit.

>>19850582
>. Name a single Gaelic tale with historical significance?
the poems of ossian which became the best selling books in europe for 100 years
meanwhile mayans claim to fame is it has its own writing system...

this reads like a post written by a mexican honestly

>>19850590
Weren’t those fabricated by an Anglo?

>>19850600
James MacPherson was born and raised in Scotland and his first language was Gaelic from he young years so no he was not English.
>fabricated
That's totally impossible but if you have any specific questions on that then ask.
>Anglo
Just say English instead of sounding like a spastic.

>>19850590
Mexicans are Aztecs you fuckin retard. Mayans are Guatemalan. You don't even know anything about Mayan civilization. Leave it to a northern barbarian who's biggest claim is stacking rocks in a field to dismiss developing your own writing system as not that big of a deal. It's like the virgin who says "you guys care too much about sex".

>Ossian
Never heard of him, but I've heard of King Arthur. Kinda more significant. Like I said, you are better off learning Welsh if you want to study Celtic culture and literature.

>>19850590
Mabinogion is more important than anything ever scribbled in Irish.

>>19850629
>Irish
I looked it up and this is actually a language?? Wtf lol

>>19850613
>if you want to study Celtic culture and literature.
okay but welsh literature and language is totaly different to gaelic
>>19850650
>>19850629
ossian is in scottish gaelic

>>19850509
Damn I know you deleted your post in shame but I wish you nothing but good fortune in your studies.
εὐτύχει.

>>19850660
>okay but welsh literature and language is totaly different to gaelic
Yes? I said Celtic. Gaelic and Brittonic are branches of Insular Celtic.

>>19850650
It'll be dead by the end of the century. Any polling numbers for speakers are horse shit since the only people who are fluent are over 50 and the people under 50 barely speak it if at all, but they might respond "yes" to a poll that asks if they speak Irish. There are more people learning Irish on Duolingo than speak it in Ireland.

>>19850660
>ossian is in scottish gaelic
Scottish is a dialect of Goedelic and the further back in time you go, the less difference between Irish there is. And if you are going to argue that it's a classical language, then you must be going back to the 'classical' state of the language which is just called "Old Gaelic" and is not divided into multiple languages until after the Middle Ages.

>>19850676
I was the one that made fun of him and I feel fucking terrible about it.

If you are reading this dude, I'm sorry.

>>19850695
>. And if you are going to argue that it's a classical language,
I didn't. I specifically said it isn't but that doesn't change Ossian published in the 1760s was originally in Gaelic.
>Yes?
The cultures are vaguely similar.
The languages so different they can't be compared.

>>19850737
Oh well some guy was trying to say Classical Mayan hieroglyphs weren't classic, but Irish was.
>The languages so different they can't be compared.
I'm quite familiar with Welsh and Celtic linguistics, so I was not comparing them. I was saying someone who wanted to study Celtic languages would be better off learning Welsh. If you are specifically interested in Irish, I wasn't saying that Welsh was basically the same but better. Study what you want. I was referring to the someone interested in "Celtic" languages generally.

>>19849976
>>19849978
>>19850030
>>19850107
>>19850315
Cope. I'm going to write the next epic about the adventures of Lupus who travels around the Roman empire bedding fair maidens.

Please someone vacroo plzplzplz
I promise I won't use it for fapping

>>19850534
maybe u should stop using gay definitions faggot. /Comeback Languages General/ doesnt need any pansy ass pedants tryna kill dead languages all over

>>19850865
Post the rest, this is great

>>19847340
Even if I disagree with the other side based on what evidence I've seen (and no, I won't say which side I'm on, this isn't about the object-level) I can understand why they'd want to warn people away from what they honestly believe is an ineffective or even harmful method.

>>19848873
In America regnat genus hominum mercatorum.

>>19848156
How much would that cost?

>>19851012
>In America

>>19848375
I've had the occasional thought in Classical Chinese spontaneously.

>>19848838
Isn't there a good deal of audio/video material for Latin?

>>19851079
thats not possible

>>19849968
Just for fun I did it, might have made a couple mistakes.
https://voca.ro/161l2pLIJdUS

>>19850274
Wouldn't it be a good idea to?

>>19851123
no since latin had one as well but no one replicates that

>>19850326
I've been learning Classical Chinese. I'd like to learn Coptic and go on to Egyptian from that (reading Egyptian in Coptic pronunciation rather than Egyptological) but I'm busy with some other things right now.

>>19850551
Read things aloud to yourself. Maybe try listening to audio recordings in your preferred pronunciation while reading along.

>>19850650
It was referred to as Gaelic until not that long ago, my understanding was that calling it "Irish" is a nationalist rebranding.

>>19851012
>>>/pol/

>>19851103
Well I don't know what to tell you because I've literally done it. Why's it any more impossible than for any other language?
>>19851132
I thought it had stress determined by length rather than pitch per se.

>>19851154
>until not that long ago,
everyone still calls it that...
>>19851154
>, my understanding was that calling it "Irish" is a nationalist rebranding.
That's totally nonsense.
It only began being called Gaelic by the 1800s.

i have an essay due by tomorrow morning on the phaedo and i have barely started... it is 11pm i am so exhausted

>>19851178
What was it called before that?

>>19851175
That guy doesn't believe in fluency in any classical language. He's just an angry loser, don't reply to him. He ruins every thread because he failed at learning Latin and now he wants to prevent anyone else from succeeding in their language of choice.

>>19851187
irish

>>19851188
Does he not realize that these languages were literally what people spoke on an everyday basis at one point? They're not conlangs.

>>19851113
based

>>19851209
You have to realize that when some people fail, to only way they can explain it is to say that it must be impossible for everyone. If this guy admits that language fluency in ancient languages is possible, then that means he has to accept his failure.

People normalize failure so that they aren't singled out. It's why drug addicts like to hang out with other drug addicts. Losers like company with other losers.

>>19851113
tibi maximās grātiās agō, rēgīna mea

>>19850982
Thanks fren. I have to wait until I get back home b/c they are stored on my laptop.

>>19851245
Libenter

>>19851079
>>19851133
How does Classical Chinese compare to modern Mandarin? Do you know both? Are the characters different? How different is the pronunciation different? If you learn one, does it help much with the other? If I am interested in Classical Chinese, should I bother with Mandarin too?

I've only done Indo-European languages so sorry if they are stupid questions.

>>19851287
>Do you know both?
I know more Classical Chinese, but some Mandarin.
>Are the characters different?
Both can be written in simplified or traditional characters, though Classical is written in traditional characters a little more often. Any modern printing of a classical text will use modern character forms, whether traditional or simplified.
>How different is the pronunciation different?
Classical Chinese is still pretty much universally read in the local pronunciation of the characters, like Latin used to be in Europe. Those from outside the Sinosphere (Sinitic or Sino-Xenic speaking countries) usually learn it in Mandarin pronunciation since that's the dominant Sinitic language. I've been thinking about switching to Cantonese pronunciation 'cause it preserves more distinctions, though.
>If you learn one, does it help much with the other?
As much as any language helps with a related one.
>If I am interested in Classical Chinese, should I bother with Mandarin too?
You should learn the language you want to learn, not learn another language just to help you learn the one you want to learn, unless there are literally no resources whatsoever in your language.
Would you like some recommendations for introductory materials for CC?

>>19851327
I probably won't do it for several years. I'm trying to learn Latin, Greek, Coptic, & Sanskrit first. I was just vaguely interested on whether or not it was worth trying out at some point in the future.

But you should still post links to resources for everyone in the thread to see. (If you want)

>>19851348
https://archive.org/details/introductiontoli00branuoft
https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2022/23480/Wenyan-Primer-Index.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
https://web.archive.org/web/20190301225355/http://www.invisiblebooks.com/CGCC.htm
http://pds11.egloos.com/pds/200901/16/93/Classical_Chinese_Grammar.pdf
Lexicity also has an Old Chinese section, and Lexilogos has some Classical Chinese materials mixed in with its Mandarin materials.

.

>>19851123
If you want to waste your time LARPing, sure.

>>19852031
How is it a LARP? Would you say the same of any phonemic distinction that you find slightly difficult?

>>19852072
Because the ancient language is dead. So you can to through the difficulty of learning it but there will be no benefit. There is also no one to listen to to know what it really sounded like. You'll just be making up your own manner of doing it for your own personal gratification, so it is quite literally a LARP. Here's some examples
https://soundcloud.com/rhapsodoi/aristophanes-birds-227-262-english-and-greek-perf-by-stephen-g-daitz
https://soundcloud.com/rhapsodoi/menander-dyskolos-711-747-perf-by-mark-miner

>>19849991
Solid resource. Thanks!

>>19852103
>There is also no one to listen to to know what it really sounded like.
I mean, not precisely, but we can know a lot about how it must have sounded.

>>19851113
Are you trans?

>>19852154
If you say so. It's something that has zero benefit for the learner while simultaneously making the language substantially more difficult. From all recorded examples you'll likely end up sounding like a retard as well, since there's no real referent to emulate. But if you want to do it then knock yourself out.

>>19852175
Yes, how did you know?

>>19852176
I'd say that if you want to do it, it's something to play around with after you've already got a decent hold on the language. I've never seen any textbook that says to actually try learning it. I highly doubt any school teaches that either.

>>19849583
Update: I got some sleep and they're way easier now :)

>>19850865
amazin

>>19851113
>>19852189
https://youtu.be/WgMML3hhlbU
Is this you?

>>19853229
Anon, I was the guy yesterday that told you not to give up. I knew you could do it.

>>19851017
Duplex printer - around 200 dollars
Binding materials - around 20 dollars

What ancient texts are you all hoping to read?

>>19854157
Harry Potter in latin

>>19854157
More of anon's furry porn

>>19854604
You guys need Sol Invictus

>>19847477
torrent for his greek stuff
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:f22456bbb31e761af303ff25684224075593c5b4&dn=Ancient%20Greek%20by%20the%20Ranieri-Dowling%20Method&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.breizh.pm%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fbt2.archive.org%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2ftracker.monitorit4.me%3a6969%2fannounce&tr=udp%3a%2f%2fcutiegirl.ru%3a6969%2fannounce

>>19854157
None really
Maybe The Biography of St Columba but that's it

>>19854689
Okay well I still wish you luck

>>19848326
Ge'ez and Syriac are not used very much these days. As someone who is learning the latter and taking steps to learn the former, I'd suggest Latin over those two to most people.

>>19854886
I'd suggest everyone start with Latin, Greek, & Hebrew. After than Coptic if you want more, then Syriac if you want to go deeper, then Ge'ez lastly if you still have a desire to read more Judeo-Christian lit.

For eastern langauges, I would start with Sanskrit, then Pali, then you can go to the Dravidian languages like Tamil and Telegu or Sino-Tibetan languages like Classical Chinese or Classical Tibetan.

>>19854972
Latin then Greek is a given, but the priority after is strange. I don't want to dab on anyone, but Syriac is by far the third language of first pre-modern Christianity and (non eastern Asian) classical culture.
Old Hebrew is there for, what, the Masoretic Text? Even for 80% of the Talmud and Kabbalistic lit you'd learn a modified Syriac. Coptic and Ge'ez are very specialized subjects, I would encourage anyone that want to learn them but it can't be recommended on wealth of material.

>>19854886
I was being sarcastic about Syriac and Ge'ez. None of these languages are practical, which is fine. But yes Latin and Greek are the most readily beneficial.

>>19855014
>for, what, the Masoretic Text? Even for 80% of the Talmud and Kabbalistic
Biblical Hebrew not Mishnaic.

>Coptic and Ge'ez are very specialized subjects,
Coptic has more original stuff that is only in Coptic. Many Gnostic texts are only available in Coptic form. Ge'ez I agree is specialized, but it's our only complete Book of Enoch for what it's worth.

>>19854972
Having done this, i suggest starting with Greek first. Because not only is the alphabet different but I consider it more complex.

>>19855039
>Biblical Hebrew not Mishnaic.
Considering them as two separate languages makes learning either Hebrew worth even less.
>Coptic has more original stuff that is only in Coptic.
In terms of works still untranslated in modern languages I don't know because there are many more scholars that know Aramaic, but in sheer overall amount, no. Syriac was spoken by more people over a wider region and had a consistent high literary output well into the 14th century, of both profane and religious (Christian and rabbinical) texts. Based on your examples I guess you seem to be mostly interested in what could pass as "apocryphal" in which case there is indeed nothing in Syriac aside from the Apocalypse of Baruch and the Targum rewritings.

>>19854157
Caesar's commentaries, Metamorphoses and Aeneid were my goals starting out

>>19854157
Church Fathers, primarily Latin

>>19855170
>Considering them as two separate languages makes learning either Hebrew worth even less.
Learning Biblical Hebrew just for the sake of reading the most influential book in the history of the Western world is kind of important. Not learning Mishnaic or modern Hebrew saves you time. You have a more specific vocabulary and thus spend less time.
>I guess you seem to be mostly interested in what could pass as apocryphal
Correct, if you are just looking for untranslated general literature Syriac is far more important. I guess my list was little more about classic well know texts. The Nag Hammadi library is more famous and desired to be read than anything I'm aware of in Syriac. And obviously the fall of Egypt and the death of Coptic plays a role in the limited scope of the lit. I should have been more specific as to what I meant.

>>19855197
>Caesar's commentaries, Metamorphoses and Aeneid were my goals starting out
Were? Have your goals changed?

>>19855218
>Church Fathers, primarily Latin
Very cool! You will be able to read the Vulgate very early on.

>>19855230
>Were? Have your goals changed?
not necessarily, I should say those were the works I was aware of that inspired me to learn latin. I'm still new to learning it so I assume I'll develop new goals before crossing those off the list

>ubi enim est thesaurus tuus, ibi est et cor tuum.
Reading Commentarii Luculentus rn

>>19854157
Hellenistic Philosophy and the Roman Stoics

>>19854157
I don't even know. I just thought Latin would be a fun challenge. People have been raving about Roman literature for two thousand years, and nothing I read in translation ever grabbed me. Maybe if I really master Latin, I'll see what the fuss is.

>>19854157
Ovid's Metamorphoses was my goal when I first started learning Latin during the first lockdown in 2020 (early March here in England). Unfortunately, and it hurts to say this, but 2 years later I'm still very far from even attempting Ovid. Sucks to be a brainlet.

>>19855546
>>19855563
>>19855816
Latin bros, please do not give up. I know this is hard, but we can do this.

>>19854157
Livy

>>19854157
Phaidon is going to be my first big boy text. But on the long run I want to be able to read Aristophanes, the tragedians and ancient texts concerning poetry with relative ease.

Has anyone ever explained why everyone has blue hair in Homer?

>>19856596
The internet told me the ancient greeks had no concept of blue because Homer kept using the phrase 'wine-dark sea' and everyone knows the sea is blue, not wine colored.

>>19856619
water changed color due to global warming dumb fuck

>>19856619
>the sea is blue
any sources to back up that claim, big man?

Americans think this is blue.

>>19856660
It's different colors based on where you are...

>>19856722
the heck does that mean? are my shoes coloured differently based on where I am too?

>>19856794
Not all seas have the same color of water.

>>19856655
The nerve of this guy, posting in a language thread when he's never even seen the sea.

>>19853699
No lol. For one thing, she sounds British, I'm American. For another her Latin is far better than mine.

>>19853902
What about the cost of the paper and ink?

>>19854157
I need to get around to reading the Confucian canon. A friend recommended 十三經註疏 to me as a commentary.

>>19856619
The explanation I've heard is that they had a different concept of color that focused more on quality than absolute hue.

>>19852189
Numquam femina eris.

>>19847320
Hello everyone, I recently started latin and have found difficulty in understanding word placement.

'Wheelocks Latin' tells me the syntax is S.O.V., but the sentences 'Nomen mihi est John' and Quid est nomen tibi' don't follow this.

Are ther eny fluent/skilled latin speakers here who can salva me?

>>19857416
Sed iam sum :)

>>19857499
Subject object verb is a general guideline, but the inflected nature of Latin means it has a much more fluid word order than a language like English. In many cases you scramble the entire sentence and it's still correct. When you get to reading poetry you will find that is especially true.

>>19857499
SOV is the default/unmarked word order, but since the cases tell you what's the subject and what's the object, it can vary pragmatically. Latin also generally moves "wh-words" to the beginning like English does if I'm not mistaken.

>>19857499
>the syntax is S.O.V
debunked by our lord and savior Lucius Ranier(PBUH)

>>19857499
as this anon says >>19857521
There was a Roman grammarian by the name of Priscianus and he believed that word order was an individual's stylistic choice so in some sentences they may begin with the object and have the subject in the middle of the sentence.

>>19857521
I'm not fluent, but my understanding is that while that's the typical word order, the language isn't that strict when it comes to word order. It's sort of like how you can rearrange sentences in English and have them mean more or less the same thing, or slightly different meanings based on what you're trying to convey.

>>19857521
>>19857527
>>19857530
>>19857532
Thank you, friends, I understand now.
Good luck with your latin future learning.

Hi lads, I'm trying to learn Latin.
How is my pronunciation?
https://vocaroo.com/1iFBEPxPjkvo
Thanks!

>>19857836
this is what I'm trying to say btw

please learn egyptian
https://book4you.org/book/2851651/522a17

>>19857836
L sounds kinda slavic, are you slavic speaking perhaps?
some accents are wrong(e.g liberorum, servorum), maybe you have chosen not to give too much importance to long vowels in terms of pronunciation but those are also important for the accent, it's liberOrum, not libErorum, etc...

>>19857853
>https://book4you.org/book/2851651/522a17
Anon, I can't do it right now. After Coptic, I will look into it, I promise.

>>19857912
You should do what Perepelkin did:
>There was this Soviet Egyptologist Perepelkin, wrote some very nice books on Ancient Egypt.
>What made him unique in Egyptologist world is that he could actually read Ancient Egyptian fluently.
>Not decipher symbol after symbol, but actually read it, as he would read a new issue of “Soviet Sport” newspaper.
>The trick was quite simple. He taught himself Coptic which is based on alphabet (and very similar to Cyrillic) until he became as fluent in it as in any of his other European languages.
>And then he began reading hieroglyphs using Coptic pronunciation instead of standard (and impossible to pronounce) Egyptologist pronunciation which everyone else used.
>I am going to try to repeat this trick some day.

>>19857888
Thanks for the advice. No, Swedish. Is it supposed to be lighter, like in British English?

Oh, so the accent is always on the syllable with the long vowel? Or always on the penultimate?

I got to look more closely at them.

>>19847320
Greek is finally starting to 'click' with me, like Latin did. It's a hard feeling to describe but it's very exciting.

>>19858113
You are the first Greek student in this thread that doesn't sound like he's on suicide watch.

>>19858110
yeah it kinda reminded me of Russian ɫ, hard/dark L as they say, should be a normal L
accent rule in Latin is straightforward, it can fall in the third to last or second last syllabe, it falls on the second last syllabe only when this is a long syllabe, which means it either ends in a consonant/diphthong or the vowel is long, otherwise it falls on the third to last
the o in -orum, the genitive plural ending of second declension nouns, is always a long ō, hence the accent will always fall there

>>19858160
Don't get me wrong it was extremely frustrating at times but I feel like it's downhill from here. You just have to push through the pain.

>>19858449
I can't study consistently. I go weeks without reading anything.

>>19858602
Find something that interests you to read.

>>19854157
Quran

Do any anons here have experience in archaeology? There have been some programs I've been interested in and I'm curious if my fellow-language learners have enjoyed archaeology or been fulfilled in the same way.

>>19858888
Sorry, I'm a stemlord who learns languages for fun. But a good friend of mine was an archaeologist. He worked as a bartender.

>>19849968
cec

Didn't get any answer in /lang/ so asking my question in /clg/ again please help:

How do you know which syllable is stressed in Classic Sanskrit? I read conflicting information:

1. >same as Latin (penultimate if penultimate is heavy, antepenultimate if penultimate is light)
2. > penultimate if penultimate is heavy, antepenultimate if penultimate is light and antepenultimate is heavy, preantepenultimate (4th counting from the last syllable) if antepenultimate+penultimate are both light
3. >there is no stress at all (???)
Why is this overlooked by learners? It seems nobody cares where the stress is. please help

>>19847320
I admit, I haven't practiced Latin since I graduated, and really not since my junior year of college. I have the most trouble with vocabulary. Are there any suggestions as to how I can improve my vocab so I can re-learn or polish up my Latin? I have Panhuis's grammar, which is a godsend, as well as a Latin dictionary.

>>19854157
Probably the Breviarium of Eurtropius, then maybe try my hand at translating Catullus. I began a translation of Ovid's Amores back when I still knew Latin, but I need to brush up before I can get any of that done.

Has anyone here studied Pali? If so, have you read any of the Pali Canon, the Abhidhamma, or other texts in the Early Buddhist/Theravada tradition? I've read some of Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translations, and I've been enjoying his clear, direct style.

>>19859266
Sanskrit is a pitch accent language

>>19859630
From what I read Vedic Sanskrit is pitch accented but Classic Sanskrit lost the pitch accent and became stress accented. If you could recommend some studies/books on either Vedic or Classic Sanskrit phonology that discuss the word accent it would be most appreciated. I tried to look this up but there's literally nothing

>>19849978
>what author

And which Latin author could it possibly have been?

>>19850185
Reading translations are for plebs and for experts who want to quickly gleam information before reading in the original. If you really want to understand a text, you must study the language, the broader context, and then the text itself. You must have a string grasp of the language before moving on to the latter two.

>>19858888
I am interested in ancient languages and literature, and I've gotten involved in a local dig. I've really enjoyed the work and look forward to getting out in a few months. My interests are in Classics and the Bible, but I am doubtful I would enjoy that type of archaeology over looking for a lost Indian village and digging up a family home. I could see myself doing local digs for the next 40 years or so, but I probably wouldn't go Eurasia to dig more than once or twice. If you're uncertain about archaeology, try out a local dig and immerse yourself in reading about your favorite civilization's material culture.

post the latin chart, pls

>>19860189
it’s in the wiki