/lit/ - Literature

what does this have to do with literature

>>19837882
I guess because he doesn't adhere or agree with 100% of the bible, so he cannot confidently say he believes in the christian god, as is.

>>19837882
Stop making low effort threads

>>19837892
He's an author, it's the same if the thread had Nietzsche's image, or Tolstoy's or whatever.

lmao

>>19837907
This is from Gravity's Rainbow you braindead retard.

No intelectual could be taken seriously as christian after Nietzsche

>>19837909
Yep

>>19837913
Is this edited? If not what the fuck is he talking about?

>>19837927
I'm pretty sure it's a joke.

>>19837931
Ah ok, I figured but wanted to make sure.

>>19837910
I can't take Nietzsche seriously.

>>19837893
He has said repeatedly that the Bible is the most influential book upon which all other works of substance have root.

>>19838000
...and he's correct. but that only demonstrates he's a sensible observer, not that he has committed his life to follow the Reincarnated Christ.

>>19838000
hate to break it to you my poor christcucked friend, but

>the Bible is the most influential book upon which all other works of substance have root

This doesn't mean Christianity is real.

>>19837882
>Why does he say he's not a Christian?
becuase he is an atheist. why would he say he's a christian?

>>19837882
Does he really say that? I just read 12 rules like a week ago (ghastly, do not recommend) and half of it or more is a bible commentary. He's blatantly christian.

>>19838263
What does it mean then?

He's Jewish.

>>19837893
Reading him I'd say it's pretty clear that he does in fact believe it. He constantly explains biblical stories at grotesque length and explains how they are ~as deeply true as possible~. If he wasn't a christcuck he wouldn't be doing this stuff

>>19838263
Illiterate

>>19837882
he only says he's not a Christian so as not to primae facie alienate secular and non-Christian readers of his self-help drivel and right-wing propaganda. As >>19838554 points out, Peterson is pretty clearly a Christian once you've started reading him, but by the time you're reading the book you've presumably already bought it and have invested enough energy that just dropping it seems like sunk cost.

Arguments like this >>19838263 about how he just lionizes the bible because its influential are just to give him plausible deniability when confronted with his Christian attitudes. This is a tactic that Peterson is famous for as a charlatan and intellectually dishonest peddler of nonsense

>>19837913
kek

>>19838265
>he is an atheist
he sure does talk a lot about christianity for an atheist

>>19838650
My understanding is that most atheists can still appreciate the teachings of the bible and recognize the importance of Christianity. I haven't read Peterson but nothing itt makes me think he's a Christian.

>>19838689
Tens of hours of bible lectures. Books that are mostly bible commentary. Describing biblical content as being deeply true. But it's all just for the literary value until he comes right out and says he's a Christian? Hmm.

>>19838696
correct

>>19838716
Then I think we can safely call you gullible, even if you don't self-label that way.

>>19838689
so, hence Atheists love to talk a lot about things they don't purport to believe in?

sounds like a waste of time imo

>>19838727
i suppose all philosophy and discourse is a waste of time, best stick to only talking about things you agree with completely.

Someone needs to tell you this dear anons.
If you agree with the bible in 99% of the things you can't be a christian, since that is the word of god.
So if Peterson considers 99% of the bible flawless reasoning, but cannot reconcile himself with 1% of what the bible says, then he can confidently claim he is not a christian.

>>19837882
>>19838000
petersons argument is that whether or not god is real is irrelevant because christian morality doesnt suddenly stop being the best foundation for a stable society if it turns out that god is not real. getting wrapped up in whether or not peterson is religious is missing the point.

>>19838734
Not a premise all Christians hold, making this a no true Scotsman fallacy.

>>19838753
would you say "god exists" is a core Christian belief?

Porphyry and Celsus both viewed stories of the Bible to be too stupid to be worthy of allegorical or hidden meaning. If Peterson just uses the Bible as allegory or symbol, then I side with the Romans and consider him a midwit at best, as his only redeeming quality is not being a literalist

>>19838773
Irrelevant question, Socrates. You don't need to believe 100% of the bible as the word of God to be a Christian since many self-described Christians don't do so.

>>19838753
Well, but it's a premise that Peterson can hold. So in his mind it's completely justified to claim he is not a christian.

>>19838749
Confucianism can run circles around Christianity with regard to promoting stability, family values, etc. Christianity calls on you to abandon families, property, traditions, etc.

>>19838734
this is so asinine. there are reasonable disagreements between Christians on the interpretation of the Bible, even intradenominationally. There is no simple "acceptance" of 100% of the Bible which could satisfy all self-identified Christians except on the basis of individual faith, which is human and thereby fallible, and again subject to differing interpretations. Point to me in the Bible where it says that the text itself, in its entirety, is flawless or inerrant. I do not specifically mean the Word of God, I mean where specifically does it say that the *entire* Bible is this way. If you say that it is simply your faith that the Bible is inerrant then you are admitting that it *might* be inerrant

>h-he's not a christian! he just sees value in christian morals, stories, ideas, and everything!
absolute cope.

>>19838816
90% of atheists see value in these things. I don't think a legitimate atheist could exist in the west by your standards.

>>19838802
So you believe in resurrection and eternal life, but not in the book which promises those things and is your only reason to believe in them in the first place? Christers are impaired

>>19838802
>this is so asinine
It is as a general definition, but I have every right to claim I'm not a christian if I disagree with something.

>>19838823
>90% of atheists see value in these things
bullshit. literal bullshit. proven bullshit.

>>19838823
Most varieties of western atheism are just Methodism or Episcopalianism without going to church

>>19837913
why the FUCK did he come with a tux on the podcast ? is he autistic ? is he pepe ?

>>19838843
>is he pepe ?
Yes

>>19838826
I'm not a Christian, I was not even raised as one, I'm just religiously literate enough to know when particular arguments are nonsense and how to make an immanent critique of the same
>>19838827
Sure you do, but in Peterson's case that claim is undercut by his entire oeuvre. Peterson essentially just does Christian taqiyya so that he can sell more books.

>>19838749
But Peterson never says that The Bible is the best building block for society. Peterson is profoundly and deeply moved by scripture as he is brought to tears by it publicly. However he does not know if he is insane for believing it. These things take time

>>19838843
I think he saw it as a quasi-romantic "coming out" from recovery and inaugurating his new book tour. Weird guy.

He's also likely on drugs again. Pic related. So factor that into the decisionmaking

>>19838732
its not even that, for every 100 atheists talking about Christianity there's like 5 christians talking about atheism. its not that they shouldn't do it but it would be a refreshing change of pace, don't ya think?

>>19838854
Well if the text is not inerrant, then one needs to develop criteria to evaluate which parts are important and which aren't. This is a bit of a problem if the text is supposed to be authoritative.

>>19838886
That's what I'm saying!

>>19838872
I think his brain has just turned into beef over time. He was coherent back when he first become famous, now he just goes on disjointed rants.

>>19838902
Does he still claim to be doing his daughter's insane diet? I bet a lot of his problems stem from her radiating mental illness back onto him.

>>19838918
carnivore diet is such a stupid fucking meme. all the benefits are from cutting carbs, not because you're exclusively eating steak.

>>19837893
The Bible isn't 100% Christian tho.

JP can be 100% Christian without believing in the Church's bullshit. The Catholic Church is not 100% Christian.

>>19837882
It is impossible for anyone intelligent to read and understand Nietzsche and still believe in god.

Peterson's problem is that he went searching for the truth and found it. There is no god. Only stories handed down through the ages that frightened (stupid) children took too seriously and turned into religious dogma. Peterson however even after learning the truth just could not bear to let go of the crumbling cross and fully accept the (correct) atheistic view of the world.

>>19837882
jordan peterson is not a good source for spiritual things.

watch this if you aren't 100% sure of going to heaven yet /lit/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpOv_kvk4M8&ab_channel=BaptistBiblePreaching

>>19839151
>It is impossible for anyone intelligent to read and understand Nietzsche and still believe in god.
This is false. First of all, Nietzsche is not right. So he cannot disprove God.

>>19839151
>t. retard
Not even a christian, but trying to say that God doesn't exist is an absolute truth is being a fool. You don't really know, Nietzsche didn't really know, and Christians who think they know don't really know.

>>19839151
That utterly banal quote that's somehow 5 times longer than it needs to be and attributed to a Great Thinker™ is perfectly illustrative of what I can't stand about Peterson.

why is Peterson seething so much about postmodernist and cultural marxism ?
he has no idea what those mean

>>19837936
Based untermench

>>19839216
Lowercase poster.

>>19839216
>he has no idea what those mean
I've heard this so many times, what exactly is his understanding lacking?

>>19839179
Well it all depends on what you mean by, 'God,' doesn't it!

>>19839267
That critical theory is a blob with no spine or structure so you can't just grab it.

>>19839271
I guess we can go in that direction if you want to, but I think that goes beyond the purpose of this thread.

>>19839283
That's literally what Peterson would say. Then he would say; if you ask me if God is an anthropormorphic bearded wise man I would say no, although it has some utility to think of him that way. But is God also the unknown potential unwinding into the future that if paid proper respect qnd treatment could maximize your personal and communal growth and improvement? Well the answer to that is yes! But it is still no gaurantee which is the point of Job because no matter how good you are you can't escape catastrophe! But also it is true that if you sink into nihilism, let's say, that there is no utility and absolutely no hope for self improvement! That was what Neitszche's biggest critique of Schoppenhauer and pessimism was! You accept that things could go into deplete emptyness at any moment, that maybe things are hollow and nobody is there to save you! And then you take the reins anyway and soar over it through will and resolution- but who is to say that resolution as such is anything different than faith was! In practice the function is the same!

>>19839333
I'm not peterson, and in fact I said it because I don't really want to discuss that now, but I guess I'm a based Peterson to become.

>>19839333
>>19839339
Ah fuck, I misanderstood your post, I'm retarded, you mean >>19839271 this is something that peterson would say? Yes he tends to do that lmao.

>>19839346
Yeah just reread the posts in his voice.

>>19839282
lmao, the ultimate cope
>no, no, see, it's actually impossible to "grab," so yeah, just throw those criticisms in the trash

>>19837913
This is literally the first time I've agreed with him.

>>19839371
Agreed. The detractors are backing a completely retarded and empty ideology. I think Petersons biggestistake here is not arguing against critical theory FROM a marxist perspective. Why exactly do megacorps back critical theory? Well because saying everything is racism is a great way to divide the lower classes. The Labor Party was originally pro tariffs and anti immigration because foreign labor and cheap imported immigrant labor drive the value of labor down. The democratic party, therefore, has been utterly subverted by the ultrarich to see everything as racial instead of class based to drive the cost of labor down. That's why the cia murdered kenedy so lbj could push through the immigration reform act of 1965. The entirety of critical theory and race bait is a strategy of the ultra rich to dovide and conquer. Wage power has decreased since 1970. He completely missed the point because he is a reagan boomer who doesn't realize this is all a distraction and the two parties are the same fucking party and only squabble over which corperations get more stollen tax dollars.

>>19839407
>Why exactly do megacorps back critical theory? Well because saying everything is racism is a great way to divide the lower classes
t. guy who starts from class assumptions so it can never just be jewish antiwhite hatred

>>19839420
To best destroy arguments you argue as a better version of your opponent, champ. Same as how lolberts/anarchists will ALWAYS beat conservatives.

>>19839248
You will never be a ubermensch.

>>19839445
This beating must happen in the astral plane since it certainly happens nowhere real

>>19839482
It happens literally every time which is why they don't let lolberts in. The last big one was billy krystal getting anally fissured by scott horton.

>>19839165
>>19839179
>>19839209
>When you touch a nerve so raw that the resident religionfag must mass post one liners to give the false illusion of consensus cracking.

There is no heaven. You have wasted your life being a moralizing doormat. You will die and be forgotten and future generations will still be reading Nietzsche while wiping their asses with the no longer sacred pages of your precious bible.

You will be regarded in the same way that modern man regards the blood soaked human sacrificing savages of yore. A sad inferior mockery of what it means to be a real complete human being.

>>19839517
Yeah your guy wins the debate in the astral plane and their guy gets and uses power

>>19838843
You know he used to wear a cape, right? And he wore a fedora in that one famous video. He really is the final evolution of the "enlightened by his own intelligence" Dawkins atheist katana-boy from the early 2010s.

>>19839529
Maybe 25 years ago.

>>19839528
>There is no heaven. You have wasted your life being a moralizing doormat
I said I'm not a christian retard.

>>19839333
great trips, and this sounds very Petersonian, perfect imitation. the lack of a coherent point is the meat of it.

>>19839333
>but who is to say that resolution as such is anything different than faith was! In practice the function is the same!

Faith is inherently the domain of those trapped in slave morality. That is the difference. Faith is for those too weak to trust in their own power so they must abstract power to a mythical (and fictional) all powerful metaphysical other.

The book of Job is quite possibly the best exemplar of this viewpoint. Where basically the Chad God can fuck Job with the long dick of Divinity for no good reason other than to score bragging points against Satan, and Job just basically has to take DA LORDS fucking without complaint and without questioning why. So too would the Medieval peasant not question or resist the King when he arbitrarily fucks his wife. Interesting side note, God literally cucks a Child into Josephs wife (LOL symmetry). And this is the problem with faith based reasoning and why faith based people will forever be trapped in the world of illusion and bondage. Their minds are perpetually haunted by illusory metaphysical forces observing and judging them and making them humble before their own self-restraining fears and the threats of authority figures.

>>19838265
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

>>19838000
Peterson is quite ignorant of history. He thinks western civilization started with the industrial revolution.

>>19838734
Theres an interview where Peterson says "i cant believe that I believe in Christ" or something like that. And in the same interview he says "its debatable whether Christ actually existed or not". He doesnt even believe with certainty that Christ walked the Earth.

>>19839607
k hylic

>>19838854
you're a pseud who thinks that the errant things he was taught by errant people have made him any more credible than a common street peddler.

>>19839550
Sure you aren't. You just agree with them politically and defend them from valid criticism while going out of your way to mention that you aren't christian so that people do not offhandedly discard your obviously wrong worldview. If you knew anything about cultural anthropology you would figure out real quick that god is literally just a progression from shamanism/spiritualism to polytheism to monotheism. Because if you claim to be a faith based reasoner you cannot simultaneously and arbitrarily proclaim the equally silly shamanistic and polytheistic positions to be "wrong" as they are grounded in the same foundation as the monotheistic (i.e. faith).

>Christians who think they know don't really know.
Another key point to the book of Job was that to be saved and to be truly faithful to god was to remove absolutely all doubt in gods existence.

As another tangentially related aside this is also why only 144,000 people go to heaven or become "priest kings" of utopia or whatever. Because it is almost impossibly difficult to be among the real hardcore believers who have absolute faith. It is also why if Christians were logically consistent they wouldn't breed like vermin because if there are only 144,000 seats on gods magic bus the chances that you, your family, and your progeny will all go is astronomically slim. To the point that anyone reproducing who is not themselves saved and capable of instilling absolute faith in their offspring for perpetuity, is basically guilty of introducing more souls into the world who will inevitably be damned to hellfire. But even that is a gamble as only god can supposedly make the final call on who gets into the cheer-leading squad.
>INB4 no you are misinterpreting it!
Nope. Once christcuckery got too big for it's britches they quickly realized that they had to reinterpret that passage and include a disclaimer that although everyone won't get to be a "priest king" they can still be groveling peasants under the command of the "priest kings".

>>19839711
>tips fedora

>>19837882
Juden Peterstein said that Catholicism is the pinnacle of sanity, yet he never converted. What's your excuse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfuxBkiOJe0

>>19839711
But I don't agree with them politically, I don't defend them from valid criticism, only non valid ones
>not offhandedly discard your obviously wrong worldview
But you don't know my worldviews.
>if you claim to be a faith based reasoner
But I claim no such thing
I just said this >>19839179
I said even Christians don't know what they are talking about.
Honestly? I diagnose you with mental retardation.

Probably because modern day Christianity is so disgusting and he doesn't want to empower those people by making them wrongly think he agrees with them, he cant claim he is orthodox in his beliefs but not practice either or he will be torn to shreds. There is no room for nuance for a massive personality.

>>19837882
>watched his most recent rogan spot
>he was a rambling retard and barely made any coherent points
I hate saying this because it's going to align me with the people I hate most but he really needs to consider not doing public appearances anymore. He's ruining his legacy.

Is there any evidence of him attending church regularly?

If not what kind of Christian does that?

>>19838265
He said he isnt an atheist anymore. Wdym?
https://youtu.be/x6_ESSfyiYE

>>19838689
>i believe Peterson is an atheist
>but I havent read Peterson though
>proceeds to ignore the countless videos on where he talks about Christianity and the Bible positively
The absolute state of Gaytheists in 2022

>>19839151
>he thinks Nietzsche has an accurate understanding of Christianity
I’m afraid you just as a dogmatic atheist as those evangelical fundamentalists are, kek.

>>19840623
>people ask me do you believe in God
>i dont like that question
Mhm..

>>19837882
He realistically sees Jesus as just another inspiring profound character in a story like Socrates or some shit but doesn't actually believe Jesus was God.

>>19840223
His fans thought he sounded intelligent. Real scientists thought he sounded like a retard.

>>19840685
>my brother in law, the greatest chip maker in the world, made a chip more powerful than the human brain, its an invention greater than the internet
top kek

Did someone say lobster?