/lit/ - Literature

>>19824014
>a Jew may have the amplest store of specific talents, may own the finest and most varied culture, the highest and the tenderest sense of honour—yet without all these pre-eminences helping him, were it but one single time, to call forth in us that deep, that heart-searching effect which we await from Art because we know her capable thereof, because we have felt it many a time and oft, so soon as once a hero of our art has, so to say, but opened his mouth to speak to us. To professional critics, who haply have reached a like consciousness with ourselves hereon, it may be left to prove by specimens of Mendelssohn's art-products our statement of this indubitably certain thing; by way of illustrating our general impression, let us here be content with the fact that, in hearing a tone-piece of this composer's, we have only been able to feel engrossed where nothing beyond our more or less amusement-craving Phantasy was roused through the presentment, stringing-together and entanglement of the most elegant, the smoothest and most polished figures—as in the kaleidoscope's changeful play of form and colour—but never where those figures were meant to take the shape of deep and stalwart feelings of the human heart.

>>19824024
Besides producing the most influential work of art of all time, the Bible, some of the best directors - Stanley Kubrick, Steven Spielberg, Coen Brothers - are Jewish so I don't think the charge that Jews aren't artistically inclined sticks.

>>19824079
>some of the best directors
>Stanley Kubrick, Steven Spielberg, Coen Brothers

>>19824014
Picrel explains Nietzsche's views on jews.

>>19824014
Nietzsche considered Jews to be worthy opponents. Yes he did blame them for inventing slave morality, but they were also survivors who endured, and even thrived, despite 2000 years of genocide.

>>19824079
Only Kubrick was good. And Biblical jews are not the same as modern jews.

>>19824088
contrarian, or just lying for your own argument, which is worse.

>>19824161
You have shit taste and if you think Spielberg or the Coen brothers have an ounce of artistic depth in the history of film you're unsalvageable. Kubrick is better but as a broader artistic phenomenon he doesn't matter much at all. Whether modern Jews are Israelites in any important sense, cultural or racial, is a difficult matter. But I'll leave Magee to explain the main point:

>One does not need to share Wagner’s view of Mendelssohn, who came from a Christianized and highly assimilated family, to see that his argument is substantially correct. … A really great creative artist is one who, in freely expressing his own needs, aspirations, and conflicts, articulates those of an entire society. This is made possible by the fact that, through his earliest relationships, mother tongue, upbringing, and all his first experience of life, the cultural heritage on which he has entered at birth is woven into the whole fabric of his personality. He has a thousand roots in it of which he is unaware, nourishing him below the level of consciousness, so that when he speaks for himself he quite unconsciously speaks for others. Now in Wagner’s time it was impossible for a Jewish artist to be in this position. The ghettos of Western Europe had only begun to be opened in the wake of the French Revolution, and their abolition was going on throughout the nineteenth century. The Jewish composers of Wagner’s day were among the very first emancipated Jews, pastless in the society in which they were living and working. They spoke its language with, literally, a foreign accent.

>>19824181
kubrick and the coen brothers are excellent, not really speaking for spielberg though.

>>19824014
>Be Nietzsche
>Walk on burglar robbing your flat
>Start praising burglar's skills of breaking and entering instead of trying to stop him, because that would mean you have resentment
>Leave burglar at your flat and go fuck some syphilitic prostitutes or orbit that bitch who will never sleep with you instead
Nietzsche was a really fucking bad joke, seriously imagine being such an untermensch and preaching about how to become an ubermensch.

>>19824014
I've talked about it in another thread. Also, as a disclaimer, I am not an anti semite, I'm just an autist who likes accuracy.
I advise everyone here to read Chapter 2 (iirc) of Losurdo's book on Nietzsche. In general, I advise anyone who is interested in Nietzsche to read the whole 1000 pages: often the more reactionary elements in Nietzsche' philosophy are brushed off, while Losurdo is not scared to get it all out in the open.
Nietzsche was definitely an anti-semite, he associated the notion of decadence to Judaism (to the point where he even called Socrates a jew - for him judaism=decadence was a true formula), and treated them as corrupting parasites in pretty much all of his books (even Christianity is their fault). He was so antisemitic that Richard and Cosima Wagner (Cosima was actually much more antisemitic than Richard) had to tell him multiple times to tone it down, so that he could avoid jettisoning his career.
Nietzsche definitely criticized German antisemitism, but he did so only because they were German, not because they were antisemites. He absolutely despised the German spirit, and had no hope whatsoever for it: if he had to choose between Germans and Jews, he would have chosen the Jews. Of course this doesn't mean that he wasnt antisemitic: it just means that he hated the German spirit (specifically the one that was contemporary to him - he had a very different opinion of the Germans of the previous generations) with a burning passion.

>>19824079
No Jewish director holds a candle to Tarkovsky though, so that's moot. Slavs win again

>>19824079
Nietzsche was obsessed with Schumann, Wagner and Stendhal, I dont think there was any Jewish artist he particularly enjoyed. His opinion of Mendelssohn was pretty common among Wagner-oriented Germans, his music was perceived as technically perfect, but spiritually inert (like a very complex toy for children).
I think that's unfair btw, Mendelssohn's oratorio are masterpieces, and so are some of his minor works, like his last string quartet and his second piano concerto

>>19824273
Nietzsche praised Mendelssohn as an incomparable genius, which he used as a criticism of Wagner.

>>19824014
if you arent racist and antisemitic you have an insurmountable hole in your philosophy

>>19824132
>Napoleon wannabe
Nice "will to power" bro

>>19824301
My bad, I didnt tecognize that as a Wagner quote. Thanks God Nietzsche knew better, too many German intellectuals mocked that genius that was Mendelssohn for no good reason whatsoever.

>>19824132
He knew anti-semitism as we know it (blaming Jews for everything that goes wrong) ultimately derived from Christianity and anything that derives from Christianity is merely slave morality and envy towards those who are better, especially Jews. Christianity is based on the belief that Jews are no longer the chosen people by God and that God has
rejected the Jews in favour of Christians.

>>19824141
Slave morality was invented by gayreek philosophers like Stoics and cynics actually

>>19824486
>anti-semitism is slave morality and envy
>anti-christianism is the mentality of a winner

>>19824260
>Losurdo
Don't be a faggot

>>19824393
If your philosophy is concerned with trivial matters such as race, you should come to terms with being a brainlet
Nietzsches philosophy was never about Race, but much rather historicity. And I don’t care what he believed in his personal life, the first thing anyone learns in philosophy is that ad hominems are a logical phallacy

>>19824024
>>19824273
Pretty sure Nietzsche and Wagner were just friends and Nietzsche in his earlier work fellated Wagner because of that
They wound up hating each other

>>19824490
Slave morality (i.e. Christianity) can be described as an abominable hybrid of Platonist anti-materialism (where the Stoics came from) and Jewish ressentiment.

>>19824559
>The Word / Logos (see Heraclitus) became flesh and dwelt among us.
>Christian theology has a mostly dusty and forgotten belonging among the Pagan philosophy of the Greek east and the early Roman Empire. While Platonic, Hermetic and Gnostic thought all reinforced or butted heads with the Early Church, Stoic thought provides some of the most important vocabulary used in the Bible, particularly by John the Evangelist.
>This viewpoint presents Jesus as not the incarnation of Logos, the rational order of the universe itself, but also as the Stoic ideal. The plan of Christ is to reunite man with God's order, in the same way that Stoics attempted to submit to divine Logos.

his only problem with anti-semites was their passivity, inactivity. basically advanced fed-posting.

GoM:
>The slave revolt in morality begins when ressentiment itself becomes creative and gives birth to values: the ressentiment of natures that are denied the true reaction, that of deeds, and compensate themselves with an imaginary revenge.

>Ressentiment itself, if it should appear in the noble man, consummates and exhausts itself in an immediate reaction, and therefore does not poison: on the other hand, it fails to appear at all on countless occasions on which it inevitably appears in the weak and impotent.

>This instinct for freedom forcibly made latent—we have seen it already—this instinct for freedom pushed back and repressed, incarcerated within and finally able to discharge and vent itself only on itself: that, and that alone, is what the bad conscience is in its beginnings.

if the genealogy of morality was viewed in isolation, wouldn't it be considered extremely antisemitic? nietzsche basically says that the jews invented slave morality, they were the best at it and embodied it, and were essentially the antithesis of the noble barbarians. he says that jewish hatred is the deepest kind of hatred that has never been seen on earth. now i don't think it is antisemitic myself, because it is criticizing a worldview/religion and not necessarily an innate quality, but i do feel if the same words were used by anyone else, they would not get a pass for it.

>>19824520
>in a draft of the preface to the second part of Human, All Too Human, Nietzsche described his relationship with Wagner as "my only love-affair," before striking the phrase from his proofs.
>"I always think of him with gratitude, because to him I am indebted for some of the strongest incitements to intellectual independence" (letter, 14 January 1880).
>"I declare Wagner to have been the greatest benefactor of my life. The bond which unites us is the fact that we have suffered greater agony, even at each other's hands, than most men are able to bear nowadays, and this will always keep our names associated in the minds of men" (Ecce Homo, 1888).
- Nietzsche

>The friendship deepened into something like a father-son connection. "Strictly speaking, you are, aside from my wife, the one prize I have received in life," Wagner wrote to his disciple in 1872.
>"I lack the ability to keep bad experiences in mind; with Nietzsche, for instance, I can think only of his friendly aspects" (Cosima's Diaries, 28 December 1881)
- Wagner

>>19824610
The genealogy was something called “Streitschrift” in German (maybe discussion piece in English?)
Everybody (at least in German academia) knows that the purpose of such a piece is to incite a meta discussion, in this case about historicity of morale (aka moral relativism). Nitzsche himself wrote in a letter that his point wasn’t to start a new school of ethic.
Basically shitposting in order to shift the discussion

>>19824610
You don't get Nietzsche's distinction between anti-Semitism and honesty. Calling the Jews out for things they were responsible for is fine, saying they all need to be rooted out, shot and despised is ressentiment.

>>19824643
As I've said. Worthy Opponents.

>>19824014

Obviously, the obsession with the cretinous exterior IS Judaic. It is no wonder that Catholics often stumble into paraphrasing NEETzsche, since they are obsessed with it as well, Catholicism being a pagan-Pharisaic flight from the Christological advent. In fact, all that NEETzsche affirms, nonsense about power and such, is distilled from Catholic, that is to say Judaic, ideology: Materialism, Darwinism, Physics.

>>19824559
Resentment and envy is a sin in Christianity. Learn some basic shit.

>>19824643
I guess I just feel like, if this was written today, it would be considered extremely anti-semitic regardless of any context or distinctions made. From the genealogy:

>Nothing that has been done on earth against ‘the noble’, ‘the mighty’, ‘the masters’ and ‘the rulers’, is worth mentioning compared with what the Jews have done against them: the Jews, that priestly people, which in the last resort was able to gain satisfaction from its enemies and conquerors only through a radical revaluation of their values, that is, through an act of the most deliberate revenge [durch einen Akt der geistigsten Rache]. Only this was fitting for a priestly people with the most entrenched priestly vengefulness. It was the Jews who, rejecting the aristocratic value equation (good = noble = powerful = beautiful = happy = blessed) ventured, with awe-inspiring consistency, to bring about a reversal and held it in the teeth of the most unfathomable hatred (the hatred of the powerless), saying: ‘Only those who suffer are good, only the poor, the powerless, the lowly are good; the suffering, the deprived, the sick, the ugly, are the only pious people, the only ones saved, salvation is for them alone, whereas you rich, the noble and powerful, you are eternally wicked, cruel, lustful, insatiate, godless, you will also be eternally wretched, cursed and damned!’ . . . We know who became heir to this Jewish revaluation . . . With regard to the huge and incalculably disastrous initiative taken by the Jews with this most fundamental of all declarations of war, I recall the words I wrote on another occasion (Beyond Good and Evil, section 195) – namely, that the slaves’ revolt in morality begins with the Jews: a revolt which has two thousand years of history behind it and which has only been lost sight of because – it was victorious . . .

>>19824014
sometimes when walking around during sundown, i stop and sit by the lake. i close my eyes, and recall what lit was like before the 2016 U.S. election, before the /pol/tard invasion...

enraptured by the reverie of a fading memory

better god damn times

>>19824014
>Uptick in anti-semitism
>Literally the opposite happening

Yeah, fuck off newfag and/or tranny. You will never be a woman.

>>19824868
>sin in Christianity
The sin that ironically is the entire basis of Christianity.

>>19824088
Spielberg and Coen are midwit, but Kubrick is legitimately the among the best.
There are exactly three movies to be considered art, and these are Barry Lyndon by Kubrick, Ran by Kurosawa, and Robocop by Verhoeven. The rest are one of two things: garbage or pretentious garbage. Garbage can be good, it just isn't art. Pretentious garbage cannot be good, because it is garbage that pretends to be art.

>>19824132
Deep set Aryan brows and eyes?

>>19824398
>>19825085
based vulgar and profane bros!

>>19824393
/thread
>>19824518
Race is one of the most fundamental aspects of human nature. If you can't see it, you have no business talking philosophy.

>>19824014
define anti-semitism. Is it anti-semitic to say that jews have collective identity and use their disproportionate amount of power in politics and media for the benefit of that identity?

Also, do you apply the same kind of logic to white people? Do you think that all anti-whites ought to be shot?

>the eternal jew Ahasverus is none other than the personification of the entire jewish people.
Schopenhauer hated philo-semites because he knew their beliefs are fueled out of pure ignorance. I've noticed an uptick of philo-semitism on this board and it's probably coming mostly from /pol/ people who are NEETs with no propsects in life and are bitter. I don't mind far left views but it's annoying when the quality of discourse is awful because /pol/tards can't think outside the terms of insane conspiracy theories.

>he would like to put his roots down and gain a homeland, without which the people is like a ball in the air. - but until then he lives parasitically off other peoples and their lands, but nevertheless remains animated by the liveliest patriotism for his own people, which manifests itself in strong cohesion according to which "all stand for one and one for all", so that this patriotism without homeland is more zealous than any other. the homeland of a jew are the other jews: thus he fights for them like "for God and country" and no community sticks together as much as theirs.
>therefore it is absurd to want to concede to them a share in the government or administration of any country. Originally amalgamated and one with their state, their religion is by no means the main issue here, but rather merely the bond that holds them together, the point de ralliement [rallying-point], and the banner whereby they recognize one another. This is also seen in the fact that even the converted Jew who has been baptized does not by any means bring upon himself the hatred and loathing of all the rest [of the Jews], as do all other apostates. On the contrary, he continues as a rule to be their friend and companion and to regard them as his true countrymen, naturally with a few orthodox exceptions. … Accordingly, it is an extremely superficial and false view to regard the Jews merely as a religious sect. But if, in order to countenance this error, Judaism is described by an expression borrowed from the Christian Church as “Jewish Confession,” then this is a fundamentally false expression which is deliberately calculated to mislead and should not be allowed at all. On the contrary, “Jewish Nation” is the correct expression. The Jews have absolutely no confession; monotheism is part of their nationality and political constitution and is with them a matter of course. (schopenhauer, parerga and paralipomena vol 2, on jurisprudence and politics)

>>19824014
This isn't a Nietzche board its a Klages board.

>>19824014
Jews have been disliked for thousands of years, including by very famous, successful and influential people. Looking at their conduct in America and Europe in the 20th century and up to today--and in Germany before the war--it's very easy to see why.

>>19824518
plenty of anthropologists and philosophers were antisemitic, tho. Hegel hated Africans, whats your point?

besides the reason jews "act out" has nothing to do with biology and everything with psychology

>>19824014
unfortunately humans are made to err and relies on limit, so you will nevertheless labels people like how monkeys marks their area with their urine and feces, totally an animal thing to do.

>>19824014
>Nietzche hated anti-Semites because he knew their beliefs are fueled out of pure ressentiment.
I think it was more because he knew that most anti-Semites are utter fucking retards. You can make that observation today as well. Have you ever met a genuine anti-Semite in real life? They're buffoons.

>>19825681
>biology has nothing to do with psychology

>>19824014
>Nietzche hated anti-Semites because he knew their beliefs are fueled out of pure ressentiment
I think he'd changed his tune if he could observe matters as they stand today. I think the same of all the old abolitionists and anti-segregationists. If you showed them footage of Baltimore today would they still hold to their views?

EVIL IS ACTUALLY GOOD
GOOD IS ACTUALLY EVIL

...JEWS ARE ACTUALLY GOOD PEOPLE

>>19825776
>implying he used the terms good and evil at all
Do you not know what "beyond good and evil" means?

>>19825762
source on the greek femboy on top I remember looking that up in paheal but never bookmarked

>>19825790
Artist is called sabu

>>19825785
it's just the inversion of values meme
life bad! AFTERLIFE BETTER!

>>19825794
Thank you anon

>>19825101
BIG NARSTY

>The work of art where it appears without an artist, e.g., as body, as organization (Prussian officer corps, Jesuit order). To what extent the artist is only a preliminary stage. The world as a work of art that gives birth to itseIf--
hmmm, what happens if we combined prussian officer corps and jesuit order

>The degree of resistance that must be continually overcome in order to remain on top is the measure of freedom, whether for individuals or for societies - freedom understood, that is, as positive power, as will to power. According to this concept, the highest form of individual freedom, of sovereignty, would in all probability emerge not five steps from its opposite, where the danger of slavery hangs over existence like a hundred swords of Damocles. Look at history from this viewpoint: the ages in which the "individual" achieves such ripe perfection, i.e., freedom, and the classic type of the sovereign man is attained - oh no! they have never been humane ages!

>One must have no choice: either on top - or underneath, like a worm, mocked, annihilated, trodden upon. One must oppose tyrants to become a tyrant, i.e., free. It is no small advantage to live under a hundred swords of Damocles: that way one learns to dance, one attains "freedom of movement."

>>19824014
I would say a good 20% of Nietzsches corpus was just him being a contrarian to Wagner