/lit/ - Literature

>>19794860
Roger Scruton - Modern Culture.

>but God is dead and he is never coming back but the idea of tradition can still exist without it
Incredibly arrogant idea, I recommend you give up any such preconceptions while you're at the start of your philosophical journey. The world is more complex than just the simple yes or no thought of one individual.

>>19794871
Roger Scruton sees everything the eyes of religion though. It's true though. Religion is dying in record numbers. The number of atheists is increasing every year and the number of religious is decreasing. And among the religious the numbers of people who actually pray or go to church are so low. I don't know if there is any first world country where religion is rising and I'm pretty sure it never will. It's just too obvious that there is no God. This isn't a debate thread though I just want books on tradition

>>19794860
Check Charles Maurras, he was an atheist who was also an extremely pro-catholic monarchist.

>>19794860
Hume, Cicero in some respects (mainly because Cicero can seem genuinely religious and might defy that criterion).

>>19794881
I've checked him out before but sadly he only has one book in English translation and not on a topic I care about

>>19794860
>”Le God is dead etc etc”

And on the third day he rose again.

>>19794860
Leo Strauss comes closest to this description.

>>19794860
GOD'S NOT DEAD HE'S SURELY ALIVE
HE'S LIVING ON THE INSIDE ROARING LIKE A LION

>>19794883
Also another one you might not have suspected is Beyond Good and Evil.

>>19794895
What book? I've looked through his book and they seemed to just be talking about political philosophy and the greeks couldn't find anything about culture and tradition

I like tradition because I like tradition

I dont understand the logic behind traditionalism. Every "tradition" was once a popcultural norm. That horrible degeneracy we're witnessing nowadays, will be a hallowed trad shit 200 years from now when assfucking infants is normalized. What use is there in "going back" then, if back-then things are precisely what brought us to the currect state of affairs? What, do you believe that humanity should just dial it back a few centuries, and then freeze the culture eternally and LARP as victorians till the end of time?

>>19794860
There is no value in tradition from a materialist perspective. Might I suggest you first read some idealists? Schopenhauer might suit your taste.

>>19794905
>What, do you believe that humanity should just dial it back a few centuries, and then freeze the culture eternally and LARP as victorians till the end of time?
yes

>>19794905
>What, do you believe that humanity should just dial it back a few centuries, and then freeze the culture eternally and LARP as victorians till the end of time?
No I just want to imprison and oppress everyone who disagrees with me.

>>19794905
Precisely, the appeal to tradition is due to an intellectual laziness. It leaves the objective Good, True and Beautiful undefined. Conservatism is an empty word when there is nothing worthy of conservation. Tradition is needed for the world to make sense but it is not enough to live by.

>>19794878
You're pretending as if this statistic is the only determining thought on the matter, it's very naive and /pol/-infographic tier. There have been countless thoughts both explaining the decline of God in modernity, as well as predicting it, from a religious and neutral perspective. To override such penetrating thoughts with thoughtless statistics (science cannot think after all) would just be an affront to thought itself.

>Roger Scruton sees everything the eyes of religion though.
It would be more accurate to say he sees everything through the artistic products of high culture. He doesn't believe in God and actually has quite an existentialist-nihilist slant to him. But if you consider his idea of tradition and culture still being stuck in a religious view, then you just simply don't want tradition and high culture.

>>19794956
You don't even need the statistic it's just obvious if you spend any time talking to people outside that each generation is less and less religious. I can count one hand the Gen-Zers I know out of thousands that believe in a God. It's just not popular anymore.

>He doesn't believe in God
What? I've heard him he says he believes in God and I've read passages from him where he talks about how beauty comes from God

>>19794905
No way it will be, do you think anyone thirsted for the 476 - ~800 AD period? Perhaps there were some good things about it here and there but mostly it was shit.
Besies what got us to this shit state are just undercurrents that used to be kept in check but got unleashed. You could point to various reasons why, and all of them would probably be a part of it.


>>19794860
Being a traditionalist and an atheist is almost impossible. Atheism goes hand-in-hand with socialism communism and fascism, not traditionalism. If you want to be a traditionalist, I strongly urge you to reconsider your attitudes on religion, since traditionalism is really just a manifestation of religion. The only atheist traditionalist author I can think of is Gustave le Bon, but that guy has some seriously funny beliefs and I doubt almost anyone on the political spectrum would agree with him more than disagree

>>19794978
Why can't you just have the other 95% of Tradition without religion? What if God was not real? Would you say we should just become Nihilists and anarchists? No you would say let's go on living as best we should but without the religious aspects

>>19794902
The Theologico-Political Problem. I'd recommend Dugin too, specifically his criticism of the West, his writings aren't too religious. Peter Sloterdijk as well. Other writers, that aren't specifically traditionalist, but recognize a certain "Evil" to modernity and aren't libtarded, would be Friedrich Schiller, Friedrich Hölderlin, Friedrich Schlegel, Max Kommerell, Wilhelm Dilthey, Reinhart Koselleck and so on. Romanticism should be of interest to you.

>>19794860
Every book is the result of the society that produced it. That’s why the modern literature is so bad now. It reflects an unhealthy society.

>>19794860
Nietzsche, unironically.

>>19794968
>You don't even need the statistic it's just obvious if you spend any time talking to people outside that each generation is less and less religious
Shouldnt this be reaffirming the need of religion for the continuation of tradition? With a decline in religion there is a decline in tradition.
You cant separate the two.

>>19794995
thanks fren

>>19795006
The atheism is just one factor of many. Religious people in the 21st century are just as bad the atheists which prove it's more than just the loss of religion that is the cause of our problems

>>19794860
>tradition
That's a vague word used to tag stuff that the user likes.
Tradition of what? Which tradition?
Jewish culture? Etruscan culture? Which tradition, exactly?
There's no single tradition.
And not every tradition is cool, some are stupid --such as human sacrifice.

>but God is dead and he is never coming back but the idea of tradition can still exist without it
That's Zizek speaking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABnznhzdIY

>>19795021
I like Zizek because he is basically a fascist and the left doesn't even realize it. Hates trannies, hates immigrants, hates idpol. Is not even really a Communist

>>19794968
You're just repeating yourself anon.

>What? I've heard him he says he believes in God and I've read passages from him where he talks about how beauty comes from God
He identified as believing in God when he was younger, not sure if it came from a genuine belief or some other existentialist rationalisation that it was necessary. 21st century Scruton doesn't believe in God however and he explores the importance of high culture after the death of God in Modern Culture.

>>19794978
>but that guy has some seriously funny beliefs
Like what? I've read three of his main books and he seems highly intelligent and rational with almost everything he says. Very little of his work feels biased by intellectual ideals.

>>19795038
Do you have any quotes to prove Scruton doesn't believe in God?

>>19794986
I mean if you went to school and everything was the same except when the teacher gives you a test its always blank and you always get a 100, would you have the same attitude towards school as before?

>>19795041
Maybe you missed the part where every 5 seconds he started talking about how retarded the middle ages / the communists / socialists / revolutionaries / modern intellectuals are. Doesn't mean he is not intelligent, but his beliefs are still funny

>>19795049
He is mostly correct when he critiques them, is there anything you're referring to specifically? From my memory he criticizes the Middle Ages for the tendencies of the masses to do things like burn people at the stake for being witches, he and he criticizes all of the latter for similar mass tendencies of irrationality (seen, for example, in the Paris commune, the Paris of the French Revolution itself which he lived through, etc.) Unless you just think that he brings these things up too frequently, which I suppose would be a fair criticism, but it never bothered me when I read him. The general theme of his work is not "retardation" as much as it is that irrationality (which he does not condemn as such) is the basis for most human institutions, and even human greatness, that human reason is the most impotent, yet arrogant and pretentious, faculty of ours which has achieved almost nothing in comparison to human instinct (=irrationality) and tradition.

>>19794860
the entire Confucian and neo-Confucian tradition is about this

>>19795011
What was the enlightenment, rise of material science, and the separation of church of state. Stop being a brainlet.

>>19795084
You just proved me by saying things that aren't Religion lol are you retarded

>>19795035
I agree, but he isn't anti-immigrant. He is against those immigrants not accepting Enlightenment modernity and trying to form their own modernities(usually via their traditions). He is also apparently pro-UN now if the UN would start being a military organization that actually does things.

>>19795102
>trying to form their own modernities(usually via their traditions).
Which based on the statistics is like 90% of foreign born Muslims lol

I Ching
Tao Te Ching
Confucius

>You should hold traditional beliefs and practices bc "the way", society, natural order of hierarchy, etc..

>>19794922
>intellectual laziness
Aka "I don't want an answer I just want to navel gaze".
>It leaves the objective Good, True and Beautiful undefined.
And you know how concepts such as an objective Good, True and Beautiful exist in the first place? Through Tradition.

Ride Plato's cock some more.

>>19794891
never happened

>>19794860
>tradition without religion
>conservative 'traditions'

>>19794860
Most modern 'conservative' angloshit in general takes that viewpoint, Scruton being a key example

>>19794978
>Being a traditionalist and an atheist is almost impossible. Atheism goes hand-in-hand with socialism communism and fascism, not traditionalism.
jesus chirst how retarded

>>19795001
more like the person that produced it, but good books are still made today, you just have to look hard

>>19794878
>The number of atheists is increasing every year and the number of religious is decreasing.
I would argue people are just changing to a materialistic relegation, not necessarily becoming atheist

>>19795021
human sacrifice was based and had soul

>>19795021
>And not every tradition is cool, some are stupid --such as human sacrifice.

>you'll never have the glory of lying on the stone table atop the pyramid as the priest checks the stars before opening you up with obsidian and setting your body on fire to stop the apocalypse and let the world live another 52 years

what's the point of living really

>>19794860
maybe After Virtue would sort of fit what you are looking for. but it is a difficult question because there are millions of "traditions" and almost all of them were radical and non traditional when they started. Valuing tradition for the sake of tradition, not because of some core belief, is basically retarded.

>>19794891
This.
>>19795612
The miracle happened, even if you don't believe the miracle. For God's power has no limits while you as a human have limits.

>>19794878
>It's just too obvious that there is no God.

>>19794860
I haven't read Julius Evola, but have heard that he was critical of Christianity and had very traditional views