/lit/ - Literature

have sex

>>19778336
it's called we do a little riding the tiger

>>19778336
>don't have sex
why not?

>>19778336
>Don't have sex, watch movies or listen to music
>Work on your side hustle instead
Lol what.

>>19778336
I don't want to be successful, I want to be happy

>>19778336
If there's something I can't fucking stand is the current western obsession with "meditation".

>>19778336
>dont’s
>sex
ahahaha... get laid, loser

>>19778491
make me, sex haver!!

>>19778497
bend over, incel
*unzips*

>play with your pets
The Pope explicitly said to get rid of your pets and have a baby tho...

>>19778509
His peen wants more stock.

>>19778490
exactly this

>>19778479
Be both.

>>19778343
>>19778465
>>19778471
>>19778479
>>19778491
>>19778509
Have you even read my post?

>>19778336
Productivity culture is a response to the over-dopaminisation of modern times. It’s so easy today to waste your life away not creating anything, not building relationships, living like a slob, and chasing away all feelings of shame with Netflix or video games. You don’t even have to have friends in real life today: you can use social media and pornography to numb your feelings of loneliness. A man in the 1950s did not have such easy access to these things, so he was forced by the threat of boredom to make something of his life. The desire for some people to resist this and implement a strict lifestyle where they focus on productivity to the exclusion of all else may be an overreaction, but I don’t think it should be disparaged.

>>19778516
We're mocking the image not you.

>>19778514
why pursue success unless success brings you happiness? if you are already happy without success, why even pursue it at all? why should i consider some rich software engineer successful if he wants to kill himself everyday?

>>19778521
ah okay, then it's good

>>19778336
>DO work on your side hustle
Such a faggoty thing to do. Be better than this

>>19778517
Okay that's true, but I think we should go beyond it all. We should go beyond Coomer or Masochistic self-improvement. Beyond lazy or productive. We should totally disregard it and go beyond it. Why does everything have to be a reaction on something? Why can't people create things in themselves?

>>19778517
What I am trying to say is that; productivity is the same side of the non-productive coin

>>19778523
Employees aren't successful regardless of whether or not they agree. Successful means 4m+ and retired by 40 latest. Different strokes I guess.

>>19778336
That korean philosopher probably agrees with you

>>19778536
Beyond it into what though? Those self help books are about practical living. It’s cringe when they’re tied to corporate work culture but when they’re encouraging people to be creative and not waste their time on the internet or porn I don’t see what’s wrong with it.

>>19778560
Beyond the wants and needs of the system. Those self-help books are only a kind of tool, a kind of trick to trick you back into the system so you can be "productive". But actually you are again a slave to the will of someone or something else and you fill your life with vapid bullshit that means jack shit

>>19778336
It's goal oriented. Nobody is being productive for the sake of being productive other than some weird incarnation of socialists.

>>19778611
What's the goal then?

>>19778631
The goal is whatever the person wants or decides on. Do you want to go through the goals for 8 billion people?

>>19778490
Read Jung. It’s because we don’t understand Eastern religions so they remain “sacred” whereas prayer is “durrrr invisible sky daddy” to westerners who have lost touch with their roots.

>>19778490
lefty libtards:
>dude greedy capitalists control everything and designate society to raise us as worker ant consumers!
>aha I know, meditation is a great way to revolt cause us doing nothing is what they hate the most
I mean this is not wrong or bad, but marketers selling self-improvement books have made meditation today to mean to "reset" in order to be MORE productive

>>19778638
the goal is not decided by the person, but decided by the system that person is in as long as he claims value to arbitrary goals as doing some work for a company

>>19778631
It's whatever you want it to be. That's up to you to decide, a book can't see your soul.

What does veganism, ultra-productivity, having pets instead of babies and recycling trash have in common? It's the mechanism by which one silences an unbearably loud screaming of conscience.
It's beyond belief how much a thot or a productive powerpointer focus on putting the glass bottle in a correctly coloured bin whereas they won't even blink an eye when it comes to having an abortion or going through IVF treatment in their late 30s. It's not so much a nihilism as much as it is their consciesnce is crying for vengeance and that cry is being silenced by ultra-productivity and whatnot.
Watch this thread getting deleted by jannies.

>>19778711
>People's perception of morality is flawless internally and was definded objectively in 1950
>>/POL/

>>19778455
Let’s see Julius Evolas card

>>19778711
it's pure nihilism man. People are just trying to do surrogate activities to fill the void

>>19778336
I always thought that, as capitalism and technocracy’s more and more show how much were replaceable by machines we try to prove our value to them by being more productive… but yeah having been in the cold shower movement myself I look back and really see it as an almost religious experience

>>19778745
Well I wouldn't call it a religion because it has no metaphysics or other deep insights, but it definitely is an ideology

>Today’s society is no longer Foucault’s disciplinary world of hospitals, madhouses, prisons, barracks, and factories. It has long been replaced by another regime, namely a society of fitness studios, office towers, banks, airports, shopping malls, and genetic laboratories. Twenty-first-century society is no longer a disciplinary society, but rather an achievement society [Leistungsgesellschaft]. Also, its inhabitants are no longer “obedience-subjects” but “achievement-subjects.” They are entrepreneurs of themselves.

our age is one of control through "liberty"

>>19778611
>>19778611
>Nobody is being productive for the sake of being productiv
uhm have you been on social media lately?
people journal, meditate, do fitness, have mourning routines for the sake of being more dependable and productive only. productivity for the sake of producivity. they dont tell you: you can relax when youre rich - they tell you: become more rich so you can be more productive

>>19778726
It's such a weird phenomenon. Sure, the interwar post-WWII period was marked by the most economic equality in US history, and the lowest rates of violence (though this is also reporting bias), but today we're in the second most lowest level of violent crime in US history. Murder is way down from when the Boomers were young, age men and women lose their virginity is way up, drug use is way down from the Boomers, smoking, which kills quality of life later on, is down massively.. Real earnings for most people stopped going up in 1979, a real problem, but they have booked for the top 10%, a lot of people, and haven't lost value around the median. Real wages are still significantly above 1950s levels in any event, even if the poorer 50% for poorer through the 80s and 90s as globalization hit. Some things are worse, obesity for example, most are better than the 50s, they just have stopped improving.

Then, it's mostly the right that fetishizes the 50s, a period of massive government, and absolute Democratic domination of politics for 30 years. You had the New Deal, FDR winning 4 in a row. Eisenhower wasn't even a Republican, he chose it at the last second because the primary seemed easier, so you essentially had Democratic rule from 1932-1968, with a huge raft of socialist programs.

The GOP couldn't win shit for decades, but 1968-2008 they dominated. Dems had just Carter, then Clinton had to run on welfare reform and tax cuts as a "new" Democrat, a southern conservative Dem.

Very weird for a party to champion an era that they had no power in, and whose policies they hate, while despising the post globalization world they had most of the power in shaping. The 2000s US is the product of GOP dominance.

>>19778336
For me "productivity" is just the opposite of sloth and a form of melete thanatou.
I disagree with your definition of this phenomenon as nihilism. Placing value is antinihilistic.

Problem with your claims OP, even though I might agree, is that anything that isn't productive makes you poor. So it's not a matter of people just being psychologically obsessed with avoiding a confrontation with nihilism, it is actually to avoid dying in the street from hunger.

In other words, you're being too much of an idealist, and you're not contending with the fact that people are terrified of falling to the lowest sections of a status hierarchy more than they are afraid of meaninglessness.

>>19778336
>Work and productivity - just as hedonistic pleasure - are the only things that remain for the last man to enjoy in his bleak abyss of nihilism.
>It's an artificial pat on the back because you did something.
This sounds like hard last man cope to me. "Self-improvement masochists" are exercising their will to power. The last man is basically characterized by total lack of goals besides comfort and safety, and especially no desire to overcome themselves or grow. People who are productive might pat themselves on the back if they've been lazy for a long time and thus cherish over their minor improvements but the people that get used to doing it are doing it because it increases their power. Nihilism is cured by setting lofty goals, valuing what makes you stronger and then living those things out.

>>19778336
I hate "productivity". There is no more jewish word than that. Fucking despise it. It's so anti-human. It's so life denying.

>>19779002
>It's so life denying.
Maybe it is if you adopt productivity as a duty standard but your work should be an end in itself.

>>19778336
Bataille

>>19779002
>jewish
more protestant but ok

>>19779065
bump

>>19778642
This,

Westerners just try too hard to be different. This is why they are obsessing over easter practices amd culture

To be fair, everything in western society is scrutinized by jewish control media and politics. Its no wonder that instead of rejecting religion and culture entirely, the west is trying to adopt eastern religious practices.

Atheism and nihilism aren't healthy even if they are true, (though in my personal opinion they are defeatist religions which cannot be proven, but only fill ones mind with incorrigible perspective) they cause disharmony in a mind that requires morals. Becoming a nihilist or atheist to accept a futile existence is like trying to become a psychopath to accept your wrong doings.

So behavior like meditation is an alternative for western religion. The reason is both vanity and white convictions.

>>19778642
>>19779167
Chesterton said that westerners should imagine Christ and his disciples as Chinese and they'll fall on their knees and worship him the same second.

>Don't music
>Make any form of art
Seriously

>>19778336
What you've actually discovered is the creed of being a loser. Congratulations, you are a loser.

>>19778336
>Work and productivity - just as hedonistic pleasure - are the only things that remain for the last man to enjoy in his bleak abyss of nihilism.
Enjoying things is completely subjective. There's true joy in helping others, and that's not necessarily being utilitarian. There's also true joy in leisure and recreation, and that doesn't necessarily mean you're an hedonist. There's also a lo ot of suffering in being mindful, so how about removing some of those tags and let the complexity of life to keep marveling us?

>>19778336
>Anon explaining to his mom why he won't shower

>>19778336
After Virtue by Alasdair Macintyre. It is a lengthy critique and genealogy of a cluster of ethical beliefs that he lumps under "emotivism" (although his grouping is broader than the way the word emotivism is typically used in metaethics). He connects it to the culture of management and therapy, which I think gets very close to your problem with the "productivity" movement. The gist is that by centering ethics on totally individuated people, you're left with nothing to ground your actions by non-rational whims, and the only standards of success are arbitrary, and the only point of moral discourse is to manipulate others. The alternative he proposes is a return to an Aristotelian tradition. He converted to Catholicism not long after he wrote the book.

Like most polemicists his critique is much stronger than the positive position he advances, but it's an excellent book nonetheless.

>>19779277
exactly. I just don't want to shower mom

>>19778726
What an awful response. If thinking modern culture tries to displace the impulses of your conscience is "/pol/" then practically anything other than MSNBC "liberalism" is /pol/.

>>19778336
I use my phone to talk to people, I browse the internet to learn things and keep up with current events, have sex with my wife, and listen to classical and jazz music. I do not have a side hustle because that is such a small and petty thing - your interests and hobbies should be worth doing without trying to turn them into a 'hustle' or to make some kind of financial return.

>>19778755
This and Psychopolitics are great reads.

>>19778336
>Being productive - whatever the fuck that means - is not in itself a noble thing to aspire to.
Why?
>Whenever I see these videos of people claiming that they have become very productive or are operating on 100% of their capability what they do with that capability is jack shit.
According to who? You?
>Wow you edited a whole video?! Wow you studied for an exam?! You did some push-ups or pull-ups?
Strawman
Masochistically self-improving is the same coin as NEET coomers who do nothing all day. Self-improvement is fetishising productivity, because the people that practise it don't have anyting else in their lives.
Could be said about any life encompassing activity.
>The whole problem is that eventually nothing happens. They are still slaves of the machine, they don't think independently because they have their self-help gurru to listen to.
Increasing productivity increases your freedom and so makes you less of a slave. Last comment is an obvious strawman that could be said about any philosophy or way of thinking.

>>19778578
I dont think you know what productivity means. Look up the definition of utility, and then consider how that relates to personal desire.

>>19778336
this is why I don't like mainstream self improvement. No higher goal to strive towards just "you should be a better wage slave"

>>19779179
kek

>>19778336
>But that does not necessarily mean that what you did was good or noble.
If it gave you self satisfaction, a sense of accomplishment, if it was done out of love, it was all worth it. “Necessarily” it is for you to judge.

Stirner.

>>19778336
As i see it it neither self-improvement nor hedonism makes any difference at all, we're all gonna end up as equally distributed atoms in a universe completely devoid of energy, any actions we take or do not take in the mean-time are equally irrelevant to the final outcome.

Nonetheless my monkey brain derives great satisfaction from doing more pullups and reading more books so that is what I'm going to do on my journey to rid this universe of energy.

Productivity culture that encourages you to find friends, get hobbies, exercise, and create things is good.

Productivity culture that encourages you to be a good worker for your boss is bad.

These two should not be conflated.

>>19778642
I wonder if there are any objective benefits to prayer in athiests

>>19778336
> Any philosophers who agree with me?

Check out Theodore Kaczynski’s concepts pf surrogate activities and the power process

>>19779167
>Its no wonder that instead of rejecting religion and culture entirely, the west is trying to adopt eastern religious practices.
A bunch of bored upper class people trying out meditation (but really mostly just talking about it on social media) isn't the same as adopting. Their interest in eastern culture is on the level of a child's interest in a new toy.

>>19778336
>music except for classical
it's undeniable that a retard wrote this

>>19778336
The Burnout Society - Byung Chul-Han

>>19778336
>music
alright this one makes me mad

>>19778490
the culture surrounding it yes. But I've recently started doing it and it does help me when my mind is a vortex. If through zeitgeist someone discovers it and it's helpful to them, then that's not a bad thing. But like with everything now it gets fetishized, however that's closer to a symptom of what's really infuriating. Maybe the irony is what gets you in this case

>>19778336
I agree, you framed the explanation well. A conditional argument can be posited that some self-improvement can benefit society as a whole and is therefore good if that's the definition of good being adapted. Take the workout example, objectively being healthy instead of unhealthy is not only good for the individual but good for the group as a whole, since it makes the individual more likely to be able to provide for those weaker than them. It also makes them more mentally focused. Same line of thinking for someone in poverty trying to start a business or get educated. This is normal and positive human behavior but as I said, I agree with your point that its being perverted to essentially be a gauge of one's ability to consume. Western society doesn't really attribute pride in productivity to competency in raising a family or helping a community, it's usually about how much crap you can buy or how many women you can bed. There's prayers in Christian Orthodoxy (and likely other denominations) that emphasize productivity for the sake of God (and by implication, for the sake of humanity). So I guess that might go to show that it wasn't always about fulfilling subconscious hedonistic tendencies (which I view as indulgence of self, separate from the pleasure one gets from helping others).

BEFORE ANY WORK:
O Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of the eternal Father, Thou hast said, “Without me you can do nothing.” In faith I embrace Thy words, O Lord, and bow before Thy goodness. Help me to complete the work I am about to begin for Thine own glory: in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

AFTER ANY WORK:
Thou, O Christ, art Thyself the fulfillment of all good things! Fill my soul with joy and gladness, and save me, for Thou art all merciful.

>>19778541
Not really because being productive is harder than doing nothing

>>19778848
This.
The NEED for productivity is the need to not be poor. In today's economic environment, it is absolutely a life necessity to be productive, have a wide network, be active, be fit, be on point and work on "side hussles"
You can't take a leisure walk 4 hours a day and be not poor (unless you have inherited money). You can't sit still and smoke a cigar and be not poor. If you smoke you gotta do it during lunch break or on your way to office or while you're "doing something"
You can;t do 1 thing alone. Multitasking is the name of the game, so people actively strive to go beyond "leisure activities" such as video games and smelling flowers. It makes you poor. It's a "waste of time" and more and more you see it. Ask yourself, why don't the gamers play MMOs anymore?
The truth is, you NEED to be active, presentable, marketable, sociable and fuckable to survive in this world as a not poor.

>>19779179
I don't think that's entirely accurate. If I remember correctly Chesterton said that Christianity is seen as exotic, interesting and mystique by asian people in the same vain we would look at their religious customs as such. Because the other is unknown and exotic it is unfairly seen as more beautiful or true. The point being that we should grant Christianity the same respect even though we might not recognize the "exoticism" due to it being part of our daily lives.

>Don't watch movies or tv shows
>Don't Play videogames
>Music except for classical

How is any of those a worse use of your time than reading bad fiction? This is exactly the type of elitist shit why everybody hates literature and /lit/tards

>>19778336
>being a lazy piece of shit is the same as metrics of self betterment

This is the most verbose, contrived, and fallacious justification for being a lazy fuck I've ever seen. So much so it's almost impressive. Rather than spinning rhetoric to convince others to be useless, just stop caring people think you're a lazy sack of shit.

>>19778336
How can I not browse the internet if my job and side-projects are non-existent without computer and internet?

>>19778336
I'm productive in service of the ends of sustaining and maximizing hedonistic pleasure over the course of my whole life. It's going quite well, actually.

>>19778336
It depends really. Parts of it seems like it's "how to be a more efficient min-wage worker 101", but at the same time, getting in better health and removing some technological alienation from your life can't hurt you, right? Or do you want to be a depressed alienated fuck on top of having to earn a living?

>>19778536
The third way is people working together on the betterment of mankind with no finencial incentive, right?

>>19778798
Unreal take

>>19778336
Yes you're correct. It's shallow asf and either hedonistically decided or is culturally decided. In any sense you look like a kid. You need to grow spiritually to properly decide what's worth developing.

>Being productive - whatever the fuck that means - is not in itself a noble thing to aspire to

Says you.

>>19782452
If you're a productive failure then that would contradict itself as the more noble productivity is the more ignoble you are due to failure. Think about what you say next time, sucker.