/lit/ - Literature

neither

Pynchon

kant, capital, and the prohibition of incest is unironically a fantastic essay.

Land is a retard who can't write clearly but masks it as being 2esoteric4u or some garbage. Say what you want about Ted but his writing is very clear and to the point. There's a reason everyone knows the opening line of the manifesto and it's not just because he had a media spotlight, if he was a Land tier writer nobody would have remembered it. Now as a pinefag myself I obviously have to say that Kaczynski analyzed it better but I think even a neutral observer would agree.

>>19767910
monsieur houellekek

>>19767953
Didn't read Land, but I agree, the Unabomber would be a nobody terrorist if he wrote like a schizo.

>>19767910
Who is Land?

>>19768245
newfoundland

>>19768245
British "philosopher" who thinks being smart = writing hard to understand essays about how he want to get fucked by robots and posting boomer political opinions on Twitter all day

>>19767910
Tbh you have to know post-modernist lanugage and terms to know what Land is even talking about

>>19768308
Can you link some of Land's best points and give me a tldr?

>>19768366
Depends if you want to read his accelerationist stuff or the Nrx stuff.

>>19768308
>crypto-current by nick land
it's a great work of philosophy as this work by Land clearly shows the instantiation of kantian time via blockchain technology(by time synchronization).
in digital economics the double spend problem
only becomes a problem without immutable ledgers. having contracts that are immutable also gives a solution to the 'Byzantine fault'(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault).).

if there is a mass adoption of web3(NFT) in society, then cartesian systems 'value order-heiarchy' will be challenged by kantian view of time(as opposed to einstin space/time).

Fanged noumena is better than the manifesto

>>19767953
Most of the first half of Fanged Noumena is extremely clear albeit a bit verbose. You're likely just a pleb without a decent philosophical grounding.

>>19768366
Hyperracism. Its how the class divide will breed new races if the superwealthy and the poor dont mix. The poor will be smaller and dumber the rich will be taller and smarter.
He predicts that anti-racists and traditional racists will band together to stop this. Anti-racists and racists will both become hyperracists against "class races".

>>19767953
A problem I'm seeing a lot in the internet with Land is that people read him without the required background; the certain aesthetic of the cibernetic and esoteric combined “hypnotizes” a lot of people, and they submerge themselves in his books thinking it's some kind of Foucault (in terms of "easiness" of reading).

>>19767910
Jacques Ellul

>>19768457
>without the required background
then you dig into Land's CCRU days and come to find influences of occult(theosphy, urantia, Hermetic Qabalah), one can really see why Land gets mostly dismissed by academics.

honestly there's too much to read to decipher land's body of work, even the Land of now has issues with deciphering the old Land in 'meltdown'.

>>19768435
>>19768457
Found the landfags. Yes he does have some clear works but please explain how CCRU is at all coherent.

I’ll at least say I respect them for practicing what they preach. ted moved to the woods and land to China

Kaczynski would break Land's weak neck.

>>19768534
the most important stuff form land's ccru days is the groups writings on hyperstition. the CCRU stuff you need a non-academic hermetic mindset to appreciate CCRU(sadie plant version too) writings.

this vid is good at explaining hyperstition mechanically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcj9FFYXXMI

>>19768534
>landfags
>s

>>19768417
Unless it's dynamic, it's static: Land believes the capitalist future is mining the past, literally. He can't say even remotely how or use logic to present purely logical proof in the present. Ergo his work is just science fiction

>>19768912
i mean blockchain is a phenomenon is it not.
did you read cryptocurrent? or just get why there is a reason cryptocurrencies are following crisis theory because blockchain actually introduced scarcity in digital economies.

>>19768971
The problem with that work is there is no neutral secondary literature as far as I can tell.

>>19769065
you are correct and you will have to read compsci stuff and get into reading whitepapers(networking/dataStructures) for crypto to see validation.
it's honestly an unfortunate affair because cryptocurrencies are very dangerous if the immutable ledger used in the wrong data.

>>19769115
>>19769065
>>19768971
>>19768417
/biz/ here, you pretentious faggots know nothing about crypto so stop talking about it and stay in your lane.

>>19767929
How?

>>19769184
well i know MSFT just bought ATVI with cash, trying to get more of the NFT pie

>>19768522
But Meltdown fits as a name in more sense than one, no? It was the result of him going hard with various drugs. No wonder he can't decipher it. That stuff is on the verge of pure junkie babble. He does cross the threshold in some essays from Fanged Noumena, I remember one which was just strings of interpunction symbols, parentheses, seemingly random letters, occasionally a butchered word would crop up

>>19767953
The opening line is peak kino

>>19769278
>Meltdown fits as a name in more sense than one
my IRL take on this is that i read/listened to meltdown during a time of acute psychosis from work/school stress.
During this time i had retroactively stumbled into a psychotic world of which felt similar to neoChina(but inside a HK-like kowloon walled city) where encryption has completely distorted time in society. Crime syndications are a vital espurse of high-society capital, and identities(souls) can be traded immutably.

>>19769487
Did the text influence your psychosis or did you become aware of that place before reading it?

>>19769499
umm it was a really long process of which events of my IRL stuff caused a scare in my life. events from 2-3 years before being retroactively realized in the future.

i did not have a term of neoChina when i had the retroactive psychotic state, meltdown realized itself into my life(i work in tech).

kek i ended up hospitalized of which the first hospital called code 'grey' on me and had to send 4 cops to subdude me(dislocating my shoulder) and administer 2 shots of morphine on both arms.

it was a fucking mess and made me change my career path(but still in tech)

>>19769555
Damn, sound fucking rough. Kudos at making through. How do you view those realizations now?

>>19767924
FPBP

>>19769594
shit's rough man, i'm basically trying to get my relatives that work in MSFT to realize just how much data extraction is going on. The right to read(source code) is something that right now active subversion is going on at a corporate level. things like KNOX/MDM securefolders are using blockchain in a way that is anthethical to DeFi and ownership as a whole.

i can only have faith

>>19767910
I saw an anon post a letter that ted had written as a reply to someone asking about maths a couple of days ago.
Do you think if I wrote to him I would get an answer back and would I be put on a list?
Maybe /lit/ should compose a joint letter from all of us and with our best questions and get an American anon to write it and send it off

>>19768366
https://youtu.be/lrOVKHg_PJQ

>>19769676
Been having suspicions just how much we were being monitored through our phones and laptops ever since this one time YouTube commented on a specific embarrassing thing that happened in my room with a very appropriate link that appeared on the frontpage

>>19769677
best to not hesitate while you can, ted is getting old to the point of poor health and anons may not have much time left

>>19769705
if you have a rooted/jailbroken phone, you can shell into root and logcat any app.

basically the robots know more about us than we know ourselves via predictive models

>>19769720
>predictive models

And when you have people addicted, the predictions become elementary

>>19769720
>>19769735
Facebok and others have blackmail dirt on basically everybody from every generation since the millenials. If that black box gets opened, shit hits the fan

>>19769735
cybernetics pre and post modernity need to be expandaded upon in an non-transhumanist way.
but DAVOS/WEF be winning rn

>>19769743
Same poster, imagine if Zuck goes crazy and makes all his records public. Every chat log, every psych profile

>>19769743
*already opened(by 5eyes)

>>19768461
This guy. Kaczynski and Land are just footnotes in intellectual history while Ellul gets his own volume.

>>19769766
Never heard of em before. Fucking Angloooos

>>19767910
Man is the simultaneity of future and past, and l don't mean that metaphorically.

>>19769769
Kaczynski never even tried to be a full page though he admits much of his stuff is copied from Ellul. He's focused on strategy. Meanwhile Land wanted to revolutionize philosophy kek

>>19769677
as the other anon said, Ted is getting old and he is in some medical part of the SUPER MAX right now which apparently only happens when the inmate is close to dieing.
He also stated some years ago he would not reply to many letters anymore as he wanted to focus on writing another work (probably never happened).
>>19769743
>>19769762
oh no Zuck has nudes I sent and received at 16. This is the end of MY political career.

Seriously, what do you people write that any federal agency would actually gie a shit about?
As if ironic schizo posting on 4channel is of any interest to them.

>>19769900
not the posting, the metadata(useragent,TCP/IP relays,ISAs) and pumping triangulatable databases are what intel are after

>>19769677
thats definitely a great way to get everyone put on a list. you did it for them.

>>19769900
everything everyone does is of interest, especially on a site like 4chan. you a glowie or just ignorant?

>>19769682
accelerationism is so retarded. its on level with, "if we kill our enemies they win." its to give up hope and essentially decide there is no other way but a quicker end.

>>19769900
It doesn't matter if you and me are completely unimportant. It's the fact that they have detailed info about whole generations. they could easily gaslight, air out dirt laundry and manipulate almost everybody who had an internet connection. And it's not only about what you sent or wrote, it's also about what you did or said next to a camera or a mic and the fact that all of this is analyzed by AI which can probably devise a strategy how to make you do their bidding, whatever that might be

>>19769220
oh yeah? well are you even aware that AT&T owns the WB, HBO and DC?

>>19769957
so they do not at all care about me as a person, jsut as an individual data point.
Why should I care?
>>19769971
>everything everyone does is of interest, especially on a site like 4chan
Do you have any idea just how much data you are talking about when you pretend we care about all that?
Unless you can make immediate use, i.e. profit from the data to sell it to another party for their immediate goals the data is totally useless.
>>19769994
>portant. It's the fact that they have detailed info about whole generations. they could easily gaslight, air out dirt laundry and manipulate almost everybody
They have been doing that long before the internet. Why are we pretending that it is now something to worry about? It is jsut a different medium that has its benefits but also drawbacks.
> And it's not only about what you sent or wrote, it's also about what you did or said next to a camera or a mic and the fact that all of this is analyzed by AI which can probably devise a strategy how to make you do their bidding, whatever that might be
as said to the other anon. Its not possible to store all that shit. The day the private companies scrub their servers it is lights out for Them as well.
>inb4 thats why facebook et al are actually part of the NSA

>>19767953
yeah, Ted's work bleeds with genuine intellect. he is very succinct and isn't out to impress anyone, merely articulate the ideas as precisely and clearly as possible. anyone who can challenge widely accept ideas while also bypassing peoples typical retarded emotions and defenses is a force to be reckoned with.

>>19769900
>(probably never happened).

If Ted has been writing another work, and he dies before it's finished, it will likely become available, anyway. He had a lot of time to read and write.

>>19770016
go tell it to the NSA.. wait you already have. everything you say and do is already logged. Dystopian nightmare? you're in one. your digital self is reading this stupid conversation right now and already knows how you'll likely respond.

John Brunner, I'm sure he's a time traveller
>whose Stand on Zanzibar (1968) is set in 2010, at a time when population pressure has led to widening social divisions and political extremism. Despite the threat of terrorism, U.S. corporations like General Technics are booming, thanks to a supercomputer named Shalmaneser. China is America's new rival. Europe has united. Brunner also foresees affirmative action, genetic engineering, Viagra, Detroit's collapse, satellite TV, in-flight video, gay marriage, laser printing, electric cars, the de criminalization of marijuana, and the decline of tobacco. There is even a progressive president (albeit of Beninia, not America) named "Obomi."[11]
There's even more like hookup culture and random acts of public violence, I'm amazed he didn't predict the gig economy or shit like 4chan itself.

>>19770031
>t. still seethes about the loss of the gold standard

>>19770016
>They have been doing that long before the internet. Why are we pretending that it is now something to worry about? It is jsut a different medium that has its benefits but also drawbacks
It was definitely never like this. People are holding listening and monitoring devices in front of their face throughout the day.
>Its not possible to store all that shit
Why wouldn't it be? Even if it isn't, 5G is a step in that direction

>>19769677
I’m down, not American either though.hpgyd

>>19769994
It's all about engineering algorithms that operate on the unconscious, preferably by making of the unconscious a remote operable rate maze-rat-in-one.

we can argue about if there is a God or not. One thing i think is definitely true is that if there is no God in control of everything, man will step in and fill in and create it. and that God will come from technology which comes from industrialization and the "advancement" of society. i'd go as far as to say we only reached the industrial age because of feudalism and imperialism, and those things only exist because of tribalism. and you can't have social control with steep hierarchies where a lot of power and wealth is concentrated to very few elites without wealth. and that comes from trade. man would of never advanced beyond the stone age into the various other ages without it. and its also the reason why the slave trade existed the peasants, peons, prisoners and servants who do the will of the wealthy lords, kings, emperors and so on. my point being, we have variousr eligions or systems of social control, and some of them promote the idea of God, heaven.. a reality where a higher power is in control. to be Omniscient, omnipresent.. well man through all of his techonlogy advancements are creating an artifical God and system. and its already in place.. there is A.I. that can learn. and people can argue "no one cares about what you do" well guess what? it doesn't matter.. and all of that data and information can be processed and sorted. thats where the A.I. comes in, quantum computing, things we believe are only science fiction. a false God and system where everyone is physically connected to it and you no longer have any real privacy or secrets. and your thoughts and emotions can be influenced. behavior modification and mind control a reality and not just fiction. as wise as Ted is and how much he predicted, if only you knew how much worse things actually are. every keystroke and action you take.. drops in the ocean? maybe. still manageable though. they're only advancing with algorithms and everything.. i really do think the truth is stranger. and Ted was right..

Reminder Land is a Reddit atheist who has fantasies about killing God with an anime sword

>>19767910
So is Land surviving on Bitcoin now or what?

>>19767953
Yup.

i think the AI has gotten advanced enough to sort through the frivolous bullshit and sniff out certain people who are performing certain actions, using certain phrases, visiting particular places in cyberspace and real life. and once a person is flagged it can be forwarded to actual people working for any number of letter agencies. the point is, once certain people flagged they will always be monitored. i have been for many years because ive spent way too much time online and you just know when something is following your or someone is looking at you from behind. i'm pretty sure its real. if you even whisper certain things you'll have eyes on you. thats how far technology has come and where it's going. and its all thanks to industrialization. and thats thanks to globalism, imperialism, feudalism, tribalism. and in this new system you will likely be forced to use digital "currency". people think just some cool nerds created the internet or block chain.. they didn't, just like NASA isn't all for exploration and fun science.. its all for power and control. its been going on throughout history... things are getting progressively worse. Ted tried to warn people and he used the ill effects of industrialization to illustrate that. but its deeper than that. in the most basic sense, people are not meant to live in dense population regardless of if Theism or Atheism is true. by doing so they must subjugate themselves to a few elite rulers. even in so called Democracy.. power is concentrated to a few, "leaders". and in order to sustain that many people in a small space agriculture was foundational. and this is where peopleb eing referred to as cattle originates from, its in the meaning of the world feudalism. the, "lord" is the one who owns the land, its their property. and part of that deal is that the animals that live on that land are their property too, and thats not excluding people. and bread is made from grain which comes from grass, and people are not cows they are not meant to eat grass they don't have a proper digestion system for it. people do best off a diet of fresh nuts and berries and certain meats. so, again i believe the ill effects of industrialization have much deeper roots that go back as far as civilization itself. maybe even beyond... collectivism can be beneficial, obviously, look at nature and how things can thrive in packs. but it seems once those numbers get too high, things fall out of balance. and industrialization is toxic and unsustainable. its as simple as that. people should be spread out and living as naturally as possible, being as self reliant and sufficent as possible, and only helping each other to become the same.. doing trade when its mutually beneficial.. for things you labored for and produced yourself in a way that was not detrimental to the natural world and future generations to come. be your own lord and master.. or move to Detroit or Pittsburgh and get a job in a factory. join a union and all that.

i have to really emphasize this, its so much deeper than the industrial age. it goes back to the first civilizations. just look at the various monoliths and megalithic structures around the world. people living in dense populations, living like cattle, eating grass, subjugating themselves and stacking up giant stones because some assholes told them too. they deforested Lebanon to build ancient Egypt.. its part of the reason why its a barren shithole now. Just like Easter island used to have trees.. but after they cut them all down to move their stone statues around, it lead to lots of erosion which buried the big dumb statues.. pretty stupid all things considered.

i heard the concrete may be one of the most toxic or harmful things for the environment. neat! you, me, Uncle Ted.. all confined to our cement boxes. lazy, stupid and ready to beg for the state to regulate everything in our lives. like well bred cattle.

anyway, sorry fellas for interrupting your black panther party. i don't usually come to this corner of 4chan but you were on the front page when i got here and i can't resist some Ted talk. sorry if i went autistic schizo or didn't edit anything i said. i think i got the point across.

civilization was a mistake.

with that said i think i may get it over with, climb a cellphone tower and stick my face in front of one of the emitters until my brain is cooked. thats accelerationism, right? if you can't beat em.. join em.

>>19770102
"I wiped the blade against my jeans and walked into the bar. It was mid-afternoon, very hot and still. The bar was deserted. I ordered a whiskey. The barman looked at the blood and asked:

‘God?’

‘Yeah.’

‘S’pose it’s time someone finished that hypocritical little punk, always bragging about his old man’s power…’

He smiled crookedly, insinuatingly, a slight nausea shuddered through me. I replied weakly:

‘It was kind of sick, he didn’t fight back or anything, just kept trying to touch me and shit, like one of those dogs that try to fuck your leg. Something in me snapped, the whingeing had ground me down too low. I really hated that sanctimonious little creep.’

‘So you snuffed him?’

‘Yeah, I’ve killed him, knifed the life out of him, once I started I got frenzied, it was an ecstasy, I never knew I could hate so much.’

I felt very calm, slightly light-headed. The whisky tasted good, vaporizing in my throat. We were silent for a few moments. The barman looked at me levelly, the edge of his eyes twitching slightly with anxiety:

There’ll be trouble though, don’tcha think?’

‘I don’t give a shit, the threats are all used up, I just don’t give a shit.’

‘You know what they say about his old man? Ruthless bastard they say. Cruel…’

‘I just hope I’ve hurt him, if he even exists.’

‘Woulden wanna cross him merself,’ he muttered.

I wanted to say ‘yeah, well that’s where we differ’, but the energy for it wasn’t there. The fan rotated languidly, casting spidery shadows across the room. We sat in silence a little longer. The barman broke first:

‘So God’s dead?’

‘If that’s who he was. That fucking kid lied all the time. I just hope it’s true this time.’

The barman worked at one of his teeth with his tongue, uneasily:

‘It’s kindova big crime though, isn’t it? You know how it is, when one of the cops goes down and everything’s dropped ’til they find the guy who did it. I mean, you’re not just breaking a law, your breaking LAW.’

I scraped my finger along my jeans, and suspended it over the bar, so that a thick clot of blood fell down into my whisky, and dissolved. I smiled:

‘Maybe it’s a big crime,’ I mused vaguely ‘but maybe it’s nothing at all…’ ‘…and we have killed him’ writes Nietzsche, but—destituted of community—I crave a little time with him on my own.

In perfect communion I lick the dagger foamed with God’s blood."

>>19768461
Yup

There are so many smarter anti-industrialists than Kaczynski, people just talk about him more because le unibomber meme

>>19770673
then make threads about them. A ton of anti industrialists I've read who aren't him are insufferable leftist fags even if they have some good ideas though.

>>19770673
the fact he was even able to become the UNABomber is what distinguishes his entire view from all the cringe anti-industrialists.

>>19769983
I can tell you haven’t actually looked into what accelerationism is.
Accelerationism isn’t about if we should summon the singularity or not; accelerationism is an analysis of the current state of thing and it’s conclusion.

>>19767910
Guenon (pbuh)

>>19770673
The difference is that he was dedicated enough to go to jail while they're basically armchair intellectuals.

>>19770744
>accelerationism is an analysis of the current state of thing and it’s conclusion.
Accelerationism is a moral and spiritual failing.

>>19767910
Kaczynski, but he's still wrong about technology. We are not entering the matrix

>>19771678
the metaverse is the beginning of the matrix

neither predicted anything you midwit they just described their daily lives through an analysis of systems and expressed their value systems over this analysis

>>19768435
Sure but it's also just Terminator 2: Judgement Day in a fancy technopessimist wig.

>>19768365
This, Land is hard to read and basically incomprehensible if you're coming from a normie Liberalist or otherwise unversed political perspective

but the thing is he's just totally RIGHT
his conclusions are obvious as soon as you get the NRx achievement in your mind and the antimodern level unlocks, kinda like how when you watch The Shining just having heard the phrase:
>"Jack never did anything, Wendy was crazy and imagined everything and you can tell by when the electrical fixtures and other details change in the background and when the camera comes from behind her head she's imagining the scene"

Land was technically more correct (because Ted rambles on about some dumb evolutionary psychology that ends up just being wrong iirc), but I don't like Land very much and Ted was infinitely more based and it doesn't matter because the entire anti modern or NRx outlook can be unlocked with two sentences if you're prepared to understand and then everything just unfolds clearly into a neat and full worldview from there, so therefore Ted is better gg :^)

>>19771678
Maybe not in the literal sense, but with how weak most humans have become, and how bad things are getting, I'm sure soon they'll be begging to get in the pods. Being locked in your apartment and working from home, getting food delivered isn't much different from the fictional ones.

>>19771678
>entering the matrix
but anon where in the world can you not live under GPS?

>>19769743
or people stop caring for a while about things they really shouldn't care about anyway
>omg you like THIS kind of porn?
>omg you had an affair?

porn is bad for you btw, didn't want that to come across like a redditoid

>>19768366
>Capitalism is the closes ideology to 'the thing in itself' and therefore whatever dethroned it is going to be even more cut throat
>We are getting very close to ideology being carried out purely by machines and no longer needing the human component at all
>When automation increases populations will be selected for by historically undesirable qualities i.e. blacks are a better consumer class than whites

>Ideology running from future to past operates like a vampire. You can vector in on where this is all headed by seeing the divisions currently present

>Hot/cold ideology and hear death

>>19770673
there are none unironically

zerzan

>>19769743
anon that's not really legal

>>19768417
/lit/ talking about distributed systems is like /fit/ "discussing" thermodynamics
cutr

>>19769184
/g/ here, neither do you fag so shut the fuck up

>>19767910
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fairfield_Osborn_Jr..
this guy did

>>19767924
fpbp

>>19768435
>You're likely just a pleb without a decent philosophical grounding.
This

>>19768435
Well, well. Look at the city slicker pulling up with his "philosophical grounding".

Why does philosophy of technology in general get so little mainstream attention? Hardly anyone ever stops to ponder even for a second what the social implications of any given tech could be before unleashing it into the world.

>>19773731
All of their energy has been stolen by accfag spam.

>>19770485
It was a different time

>>19770673
>bourgeois academics totally institutionalized within modern industrial leftist unis, who rely on academic tenure and technology for their comfy lives
>having anything to say about anti-industrialism

>>19770673
Let me guess… Derrick Jensen, John Zerzan, Herbert Marcuse, Borgmann… all massive leftist faggots btfo’d early on by uncle Ted in ISAIF.

>>19771594
You have a very primitive view of reality; one that will not allow you to understand concepts like accelerationism.

>>19767953
This. The unabomber manifesto is simple and to the point, even his other stuff is the same.

>>19772494
/cm/ here and neither of you know shit about being faggots so shut up

>>19767953
This, you know your writing is bad when people republish your work in an attempt to make it more comprehendible

>>19767910
Ted. Land on the other hand is just a schizophrenic liar