/lit/ - Literature

>>1975177

I remember recommending this a while ago, and Hell yes it's a great read.

I recommend Orientalism by Edward Said if you haven't read it yet. If you have I recommend Five Families because who doesn't love real life crime families?

Why would anyone want to read the babblings of that war criminal?

>>1975188

>implying Kissinger isn't an authority on international relations
>implying you or someone else doesn't always shit spam "lol war criminal" every time this book comes up

I'll bite: tell me why you feel Kissinger is a war criminal and why that precludes the validity of reading anything he writes in a way that is coherent and demonstrates thought and reason. I suspect it will mostly be vaguely liberalish and hipster statements on your part, but I'll hear you out anyway.

“The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern.” — Henry Kissinger

>>1975188
>>1975194

Hey, take it outside, guys. I want me some rec's.

>>1975195

>implying every politician the world over isn't currently ignoring compelling cases of genocide they have a better chance of doing something about and that they haven't been for the past century.

>>1975196

I gave you recs. Besides it's only really arguments that keep a thread alive and active after a time. That said I contributed!

>>1975195
since when the fuck does non-intervention make you a war criminal?

>>1975194

>implying people take international relations or any social 'science' seriously

Homage to Catalonia - George Orwell

Recommending: A Natural History of the Senses

>>1975202

Since the guy trolling upthread implied it instead of just coherently stating it?

And I do agree with the premise, and by my standards everyone is a war criminal.

>>1975205

I don't look down on your major even though it's probably vastly less practical, but really International Relations is trade craft masquerading as a social science. So is economics, but economists pretend otherwise by dressing it up as science.

>>1975195

fuck year

the trial of henry kissinger

by christopher hitchens

pretty good so far

>>1975197

Actually western governments are pledging to do what they can within NATO's protocols, see NATO involvement in Libya, just as they got involved in the Balkans during the ethnic cleansing there.

Anyway, your argument is invalid. Even if every politician would be indifferent to another holocaust (which I firmly believe is nonsense) it doesn't excuse him from doing the same, far less being regarded as a political luminary.

>>1975200

I never said it did. War crimes in Indochina, Bangladesh, Chile, Cyprus and East Timor make him a war criminal. He's evaded summons by 5 countries for his participating in operation condor.

>>1975202
non-intervention as a policy is fucking stupid

pacifism is the most feeble stance anyone can adopt

that's not to say that intervening everywhere is a good idea either

>>1975224

>implying NATO isn't just policy extension of the US
>implying that the Balkans and Libya weren't excellent exceptions that prove just how abysmal everyone's policy everywhere else sucks.

Seriously, just look at the DRC. Look back at Angola. Rwanda. Darfur.

>>1975225

You can intervene non violently with great success. Look at the Ethiopian vs Eritrean war we ended a while back: all we used to do that were some volunteer diplomats and some intelligence the CIA had anyway.

Intervention always gets hijacked by fucking war hawks when we can get the same thing done without committing troops.

That said, more recs: Crush the Cell (when I was on that kick), Havana Nocturn.

I do not recommend "What if?" as I do not feel that much thought or research is put into the scenarios presented within: when I read the information on the Caliphate in the Mongol scenario I balked at how much was factually incorrect.

Speaking of On China, I'd also recommend Kissinger's Diplomacy. Pretty much mandatory reading when trying to hold a conversation with an FSO.

My other nonfiction reads lately:
-Broker, Trader, Lawyer, Spy by Javers
-7 Deadly Scenarios by Krepinevich
-Poisoner's Handbook by Blum
-Super Freakonomics by Dubner & Levitt

That's what I've read so far this summer for fun, I'd only highly recommend Broker, Trader.

>>1975177
Not anything by that shithead.
I'd recommend pictured, unless you've read it.

I love history and geopolitical. Specifically Byzantine and revolutionary histories. I'm probably going to branch out to political theories and more ancient Greek. The old and the contemporary themes here connect in the most wonderful way.

>>1975253

I do like Seven Deadly Scenarios a lot.

>>1975249
>You can intervene non violently with great success. Look at the Ethiopian vs Eritrean war we ended a while back: all we used to do that were some volunteer diplomats and some intelligence the CIA had anyway.
Yeah, I'm sure volunteer diplomats would have really saved the Tutsi from being hacked to pieces.

I won't deny that non-violent interventions can be effective, but most of those still involve troops. If done properly these troops will very rarely if ever have to resort to violence. Also, since when are "war hawks" the same people advocating deployment of peacekeepers? Those two groups pretty much hate each other on principal.

This wasn't really bus-reading materiel, in retrospect.

>>1975262
It was pretty entertaining, but it turned out to be a lot of stuff I'd already covered in coursework. Occasionally I felt like he skimped on the background info in favor of more speculative storytelling.

>>1975249

You're full of contradictions. You're emphasizing to me the catastrophes of 20th century non-intervention policies while trying to justify Kissinger's remarks that he wouldn't see another holocaust taking place in Russia as concerning, and you're praising non-interventionist policies while you know Kissinger was fully behind the illicit bombing of Cambodia and Laos.

Also OP you should check out the essays of George Orwell, starting with this one.

>>1975280

There is an appropriate time for force, yes, and Rwanda was one of those times. However the Ethiopian/Eritrean conflict did not require them. Here's what happened:

We send our diplomats, and they call regular meetings with both sides. At these sit down talks they begin each meeting by displaying info from the CIA that we had anyway. The diplomats show both sides everything about the war down to the most minute details: troop positions on both sides, deployments that they thought were hidden, and concealed weapons caches. They pointed out that neither side was fooling anyone about how many resources they had or what they had up their sleeve, and the effect was so intimidating that eventually both sides backed down from the conflict.

And what I mean is that if we talk about "intervention" anywhere someone jumps on board who inevitably thinks that anything we do will require troops and lobbies accordingly.

>>1975296

You're spotting contradictions where there are none: I am for interventionism on the matter of human rights, but violence is not always a necessity in each case. I think failure to do so is a moral failure, but just because someone suffers from some form of moral deficit doesn't mean that they don't have useful expertise that can be learned from and applied by people who do not suffer from these failings.

Any contradiction there is one that you are inserting.

>>1975306

My problem is that his moral deficit means he's not a good politician, he's a deceptive, short-sighted and sycophantic.

He should be studied like a car crash, not as a legitimate political authority.

>>1975324

Except that he has in his career accomplished some things fairly well. It's kind of like how a professional bank robber is, in fact, skilled at what he does. Are there much better things he could apply his skills to? Certainly, and most of them are more morally praiseworthy, but that doesn't mean the man doesn't have valuable expertise.

>>1975288

In "What If?" everything goes out the window. I wanted to slam the book against the wall more than a few times.

henry kissinger is a psychopath

>>1975328

Yeah, it's like Obama's throwing out of the Churchill bust.

>>1975334
And in other news, the sky is blue.

Reading up on Isabel Allende I was reminded of what Kissinger had with Chile, yet another reason to hate the man.
But I'll let that fight go on without me. OP, you wanted recommendations? I'll trow in my years reading if you or anyone else cares.

Revolution:
Everything Thomas Paine. [All inspiring]
Thomas Paine and the Promise of America - Harvey Kaye [Three chapters of bio followed by the mans impact on the nation]
Lawrence and Aaronsohn - Ronald Florence [Lawrence of Arabia & another rather interesting character]
The Second Bill of Rights - Cass Sunstein [Sort of a beginners legal book, very eye opening]
1848 - Mike Rapport [a telling of the European Spring, which is still far bloodier than the current Arab Spring, but both similar mechanisms and wants]
Homage to Catalonia - George Orwell [Already recommended twice ITT. Its a view from the inside the Spanish civil war and all its complexities]
The Portable Hannah Arendt
Garibaldi: Invention of a Hero - Lucy Riall

Byzantium:
The Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire - Edward Luttwak
Sailing from Byzantium - Colin Wells
1453 - Roger Crowley
[Now I must get all three volumes of John Julius Norwich's Byzantine more detailed histories!]


Want list:
How Rich Countries Got Rich ...and Why Poor Countries Stay Poor - Erik Reinert [Most times I try to read economics books they just bur away, but much of what I've read from this one has history and first hand accounts. Has anyone read this through? Any thoughts are welcome]
On Revolution - Hannah Arendt [Depending on what I think of the above book of hers, I think I'd like this]
Something on the Paris Commune
The Poison King - Adrienne Mayor [Mithradates sounds interesting]
The Basque History of the World - Mark Kurlansky
Something of Hitchens and Chomsky.

Thoroughly enjoyed this book

>>1975404
Who are the "new" rulers of the world?


They're about the same as the old ones imo

Classical history:

Tacitus
Polybius
Sallust
Caesar's Commentaries
Still need to buy the rest of the commentators on Ancient Rome and some on Ancient Greece.
Lots of modern works on Classical history

Anything on Medieval European, Japanese, and 20th century history

Political science/theory:
The Republic by Plato
The Prince by Machiavelli
Marx, Lenin, Trotsky
Herbert Spencer
Michael Bakunin
Peter Kropotkin
John Locke
John Stuart Mills
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
And a lot more

>>1975195

And should it have been?

>>1975429
Should've mentioned Adrian Goldsworthy as a modern Roman historian I admire very much.

The Fall of Carthage
Roman Warfare
Caesar
The complete Roman army

Currently 2/3 of the way through this. Really enjoyable, but I'm a fan of the subjects he talks about, mainly tennis.

>>1975432
Switching the subject on you, should it have been our business to set up a fascist junta in Chile?

>>1975429
Are the ancients that enjoyable to read? I don't trust the Roman POV on history one bit, but I'll look into Adrian Goldsworthy now. Thanks.