/lit/ - Literature

>>19742257
nope what's it about?

>>19742681
It was written by an anonymous monk during the Black Plague, it is basically about how any attempt to understand or know God does nothing but further you attempts are understanding and knowing God. It's an esoteric Christian mystic writing.

>>19742257
I like it. The exercises made me feel weird. I'd take it seriously

>>19742820
could you elaborate a bit more? i'm getting interested.

>>19742257
I've read it, you won't understand if you're not Christian. It's a Catholic book written in the context of the Church, the Sacraments, etc. It contains instructions and reflections on a specific type of contemplative prayer. The Cloud is followed by a private letter clarifying some questions a student of the author had. I've seen it recommended in /x/ type of circles but it has nothing to do with occultism and don't expect it to be. If you are Christian and have some basic Catholic theology knowledge I highly recommend it. If not, start with the Holy Bible if you haven't read it yet, then move on to more entry-level theology books.

Huxley quotes extensively from this and from Meister Eckhart in The Perennial Philosophy to represent the Christian point of view in his comparison of various religions. He doesn't really understand both in their proper context though, he has to use esoteric Christian writings instead of the Church Fathers so he can relate it to Advaita Vedanta and Sufism on a surface level (both of those also not being good representation of the exoteric traditions either).

I am Orthodox just so you know where I'm coming from.

>>19743208
Is it acceptable for Orthodox Christians ?

>>19743208
Oh my god that is so fucking gay.
>It's a Catholic book
It's Bible fanfiction.

>I am Orthodox
Eбaл тeбя в cpaкy, дoлбoёб.

I have not read it as it is an advanced book, I have just read a decent amount about it. The 'Cloud' that is described is certainly real, I have reached it by saying the Jesus Prayer with a rosary.
I freaked out and it stopped because I was not prepared, but very briefly experienced a psychedelic effect of an overwhelming sense of pressure within as well as seeing a door (or a rectangular object) with light coming from it. I have no doubt in my mind that this was the so-called 'cloud of unknowing', and had I been wiser and more experienced I would have gotten the full effect.
See: https://youtu.be/DpeikAUuovQ
>What the mind can't comprehend; the will can embrace

>>19744315
I don't think so. Orthodox are much more critical of the likes of Eckhart and Ávila than Catholics are. They would probably reduce their experiences to prelest. They are fond of John of the Cross though so who knows.

>>19744334
>violent homosex fantasies so typical to a mental rashkavan
Why do you insist on spreading that mental aids you've been conditioned to, why not to heal?

All the people who posted in this thread betrayed the book.

>>19744867
especially you

>>19743208
t. 17 yo "white" American

>>19743208
>I am Orthodox
Most likely you're ersatz Orthodox, raised in a separate religion, got lost in your 20s, recently latched onto a trad religion (could have been any)—and to make it even worse, you're American and completely removed from Greece or Russia.

Like any set of words, anyone can read and interpret The Cloud of Unknowing. And like any set of words, you can search out the resources to better understand it.

This poster is attempting bizarre gatekeeping based on "being Christian"—no reason to do anything but cringe away from his comments. The irony of claiming Huxley doesn't really understand is amazing.

>>19745968
I used to be Protestant and converted to Orthodoxy, not sure why that even matters. Orthodoxy is universal and not reserved to Greece and Russia, this shows your ignorance on Orthodoxy in the world. My parish, like many, is almost 50% converts. Your post is just meaningless jabs with no real substance.

>Like any set of words, anyone can read and interpret The Cloud of Unknowing.
Just because you can read doesn't mean you understand what the author is trying to convey, this is the whole point of something being esoteric. The author of the Cloud himself writes what I said in my post, he puts great emphasis on how his writings are an addition to the practices within Catholic Church and only understood within this context, not a replacement.

>The irony of claiming Huxley doesn't really understand is amazing.
Have you read Huxley? Advaita Vedanta, Sufism and Buddhism have nothing in common with this specific branch of Catholic mysticism beyond the surface level. He even classifies religions along somatotypes in the book.

I am not gatekeeping, I am simply saying to focus on what the author of the Cloud himself says to focus on before contemplative meditation, mainly Holy Scriptures and the Church. Is it gatekeeping to tell someone to not read doctorate mathematics textbooks if they're bad at mathematics?

Did you even read the Cloud? You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

>>19746092
>I used to be Protestant and converted to Orthodoxy
This is obvious. I pointed it out.

>Orthodoxy is universal and not reserved to Greece and Russia
This is a cope. Outside their homes, these are poorly grafted. You sense that. The priests and monks sense it. The currents of their teachings are not present in the people in or out of the stark house of worship you walk into on Sundays.

>50%
Predictable lol. You're not even Christian. Your brain was developed around what? Where? In What culture? What are you surrounded by now? Give up the pretense that you have any special insight here. No one is falling for it. Don't fool yourself, seriously.

>doesn't mean you understand what the author is trying to convey
It does and there are plenty of resources. Your only possible out here is that one would need years of contemplating church doctrine (which they don't L O L). But even that is meaningless for someone wanting to read this. You don't make connections of information that cannot be conveyed.

>Have you read Huxley?
So the irony is totally lost on you. Nice.

>I am not gatekeeping
Your post was exactly what gatekeeping is, you sperg.

You're a clown. And don't tell people you're Orthodox. You're trying out a new church. Give it a decade.

>>19746169
You make no reference to the actual books discussed, you just insult me and project on me that I'm not Christian. It really seems like you just hate Orthodoxy for some reason or another. You're pivoting from what I said about the book to personal attacks against me because you haven't read the book, haven't read Huxley, and have no intellectual capacity to actually discuss books. For some reason you're also under the impression that to call yourself Orthodox you have to live in an Orthodox country for more than a decade?

> The currents of their teachings are not present in the people in or out of the stark house of worship you walk into on Sundays.
You've never been inside an Orthodox Church.

>Your only possible out here is that one would need years of contemplating church doctrine (which they don't L O L).
I only said you need to understand the basics of Catholic theology (which the author says himself) so you're "gatekeeping" more than me. If "don't read a book you won't understand" is your definition of gatekeeping, then the author himself is gatekeeping his own book.

You clearly have not read the Cloud, and if you have you are a perfect example of someone who did not understand it. I must say I'm curious as to what you believe in since you seem to not be a fan of Christianity.

>>19746315
>I am Orthodox just so you know where I'm coming from.
You're not, you most likely haven't officially converted, and therefore you're not coming from anywhere. That's why I dismantled your embarrassing claim.

>you won't understand if you're not Christian
There go all your claims.

See ya later sperg!!!

>>19746345
You don't know me, also
>You're pivoting from what I said about the book to personal attacks against me because you haven't read the book, haven't read Huxley, and have no intellectual capacity to actually discuss books.

>>19746350
>You've never been inside an Orthodox Church.
Think again.

>You clearly have not read the Cloud
Think again.

>haven't read Huxley
Think again.

Look at your posts and ask yourself why anyone would discuss anything with a pseudo-Christian Orthodox LARPer who doesn't see the irony-wrapped cringe he put out to the world.

My time is better spent showing you how the world experiences you. And we both know I got everything right.

>>19746372
>I won't discuss the book because actually you're a cringe larper not because I don't know anything about what I'm talking about
You're unhinged, and if you had read those books you'd be able to make somewhat of a point. Again,
>You're pivoting from what I said about the book to personal attacks against me because you haven't read the book, haven't read Huxley, and have no intellectual capacity to actually discuss books.

>>19746315
>I'm Orthodox
You're a rootless American enjoying the latest larp

>>19746423
The points have been made and you've been summarily dismissed by me and by the rest of /lit/. Think before you post. You saw how much about yourself was obvious. And no, no one is going to discuss anything with a dorkaloid LARPer. Are you paying attention yet?

>>19746350
Orthodox bros, stop pretending you'll ever learn Russian and just join the Catholic church. You know it's where your heart is, brother.

>>19746436
He hasn't even converted lol. Amazing that you'd call yourself Orthodox because you walked into the fucking building x amount of times.

>>19746169
Ironic you're accusing him of gatekeeping.

>American Ortho larpers
Oh no not again

>>19746372
>>19746436
>>19746441
>>19746446
>>19746484
Samefag

>>19746466
I'm accusing him (you) because, let me reming everyone:

>you won't understand if you're not Christian

Quite different from pointing out that saying you Converted from lapsed Prottie to Chad Orthodox because you started going to services (without converting). That's not gatekeeping, that's comedy.

You're not Jewish because you went to 10 Bar Mitzvahs. You're not a doctor because you crashed med school classes. You're not a Catholic because you went to Mass for a year. Get real.

>>19746484
As opposed to European Ortho larpers? America is actually a religious country, unlike just about all of Europe.

>>19746492
I'm just as surprised as you are.

Real recognizes real, sperg.

>>19746515
You're saying he's not a real Orthodox Christian because he wasn't born into it. That's gatekeeping. In reality converts of any religion tend to understand their religion much better than the people who simply grow up with it and take it all for granted.

>>19746531
No, I'm saying you're not Ortho because you didn't convert. Duh. You don't just announce conversion. Read the rest of the post, moron.

Do you know what baptism is? Do you not think it's important? Maybe very, incredibly important and meaningful?

>>19746515
>You're not Jewish because you went to 10 Bar Mitzvahs. You're not a doctor because you crashed med school classes. You're not a Catholic because you went to Mass for a year. Get real.

yes you are, retard

>>19746547
>you're not Ortho
Never said I was. Now you're just getting off track.

>>19746518
pure cope

>>19746563
>you won't understand if you're not Christian
The track has been destroyed.

This is now a mock Ortho LARPing thread.

>>19746568
What do you mean? The numbers don't lie. Look at how many people say they aren't religious in Europe. It's a continent devoid of spirituality.

>>19746573
I didn't say that. Do you think you're talking to the other guy? I'm not religious at all. Just wanted to point out your hypocrisy.

>>19746577
>As opposed to European Ortho larpers
Not as opposed to European Orthodox Christians. This is strictly mocking Americans who go to Orthodox mass and say they're Orthodox. It's fucking funny.

>>19746581
Apples to oranges. To be part of a religion you have to join it. Duh.

Saying you have to be Christian to understand a booklet is deterring people from reading it. That's gatekeeping.

Don't use words you don't understand.

>>19746588
What does it really mean to "understand" something? Perhaps here we will find the true source of the disagreement in this thread. Do I need to be a woman to truly "understand" feminist literature?

And what does it really mean to be Orthodox? Can a person be orthodox? Where is the distinction between being and becoming?

Perhaps mankind can never find satisfying answers to such questions. So there's no point in even arguing about it. Both the orthodox larper and the orthodox gatekeeper are equally incorrect. And that's what is important. What we learned today is that I'm right and you guys are both sports.

>>19746577
There is nothing funnier than an amerimutt sitting in an orthodox church

Except an amerimutt thinking it will raise its kids in an alien religion

Sick stuff!

>>19746614
Shut the fuck up dork

Take the pilpul elsewhere

>no discussion of the book in the OP after the first 10 posts
>retarded denominational console wars
>NOOOO YOU CANT BE <denomination> YOUR AMERICAN
kuso thread

Based thread-derailers

Refreshing to see someone's teeth intellectually kicked in.

>>19746584
>Americans adopting one of the most prominent forms of christianity is funny because...haha
>it's like asian people that eat mexican food, these things are UNNATURAL
>their beliefs aren't REAL like the russians. you see, the russians believe and do the same things but in their case it's real
>this is funny because...well you guys get it, right?

i just wanted to know if it was worth reading...

>>19747580
The jews are have infiltrated /lit/ to subvert our virtue

Just read it if you want to it's not that long or hard to understand

>>19742820
Funny enough my abuelito told me this last Christmas. Might have to read it.

It's based. And don't worry about it being "advanced", it's not like that.

>>19746169
based as fuck.

>>19748552
It's "advanced" in the sense that an NPC is never going to understand it, but the language is not complicated, the ideas are not complicated. It's basically a great anon post from a long time ago.

Ex prottie OrthoLARPers /pol/ users are some of the most embarrassing posters on the site.

Lol the greatest argument against Christianity is the attitude of 'Christians' towards each other

>>19746441
>Think before you post.
you can't make me

I'd recommend not reading this if you're not currently attending services and receiving communion, at minimum, and preferably not before a conversation with your priest about it.
It's very easy to fall into error when dealing with mysticism and related subjects, and very easy to mistake seeing visions or experiencing wonders for a spiritual goal of some kind, when they're more like the fruits of spiritual labor, to be treasured and held sacred to be sure, but not to be excessively sought after. Don't forget that the Apostles were instructed to heal the sick, feed the poor, and take up their crosses, and that the rich man was told to love God and his neighbor with all his heart - if they experienced ecstasies and visions during the course of their labors, then they received something good and praiseworthy, but that was never the goal of their work, nor should it become a goal in the first place.
There are also many who warn of diving into this realm of thought early because they believe it exposes the unprepared to greater temptation than they are able to deal with, or in some cases, attacks by demons.
If you intend to read this or similar works, tread lightly and cautiously.

legitimately one of the worst threads possible, /lit/ shouldn't be allowed to discuss religious books, fucking morons all of you.

>>19748582
Toward everyone in general but they're sorry bro they will repent and go to heaven

>>19747580
See the first few answers before some retard derailed the thread

>>19748645
the derailer is back