/lit/ - Literature

>>19738391
These commentators probably do read and have developed "critical thinking skills" in educational settings like a university or something. But you're just seeing a couple of ways this can go wrong sometimes.

>>19738410
A huge number of the comments are like this, it was like a cultural shock when I saw this

>>19738422
Again, they likely have educational backgrounds and read on a regular basis. But those two can still backfire from case-to-case, and you're looking at a number of examples of this.

It's also well-known that the internet gives you easier access to people like this. So welcome to the club.

It's a logical conclusion to atheistic humanism.
Next step is realizing that to end suffering you have to kill everything.

Animal fags are the worst morally pompous people imaginable

>>19738391
Can't wait for millions of Muslims and vegetarians to die for their principles.

implying that a human life is worth more than an animal's is admitting to the humanism meme that started with christianity

They have better critical thinking skills than you, stupid. Pigs are literally smarter than dogs. Eating them is evil. Anyone who throws a fit over dogs in China but is fine with this shit is an NPC of the lowest form. No morals, no principles, just fake and guided outrage.

>>19738391
YOU should read heart of a dog by bulgakov

When you realise that 90% of humanity aren't actually sentient your life will get much easier. Pretty sure anyone below 110 IQ lacks inner voice, abstract thinking, and intellectual faculties necessary to maintain an internally consistent set of beliefs.

>>19738477
they're food. don't care

>>19738518
>inner voice
>no internally consistent set of beliefs
It's hard out here in the 105 range
Also no thanks I won't be taking the pig organs

>>19738452
This

From my experience there's usually no point trying to argue with these types. There's just something about them- whether it be social conditioning or innate- that just makes them... incapable of distinguishing reason from emotion. They can certainly make arguments, but they're always clouded by a powerful fear of not conforming to social expectations and kneejerk reactions, this is why they all think the same, and why slogans and shock documentaries convince them more than any argument: Their "compassion" is entirely based on kneejerk reactions and posturing as a good person to their peers.

They are hedonists due to being disencouraged by their peers to think beyond what's immediately available to their senses; They are the sort who read Brave New World as a utopia, since they have no ambition, they do not value freedom, and they have no attachment to being human, they see literally nothing wrong with being reduced to the level of thinking and freedom of a brain damaged newborn; As long as it gives them a burst of opioids and dopamine NOW. As long as they face no adversity or pain NOW.

This is also why they see animals as equal, no, more often than not, outright SUPERIOR to humans. Because deep down they envy the mindlessness of animals, who in the right material conditions become just as the citizens of Brave New World: A stagnant and mindless, but blissful existence of eating and fucking and eating and fucking with no adversity or complexity. When they judge humans "so much more evil and less good than animals because of how many crimes humanity commits something something noble savage, etc. etc.", they also never bother to consider that morality is not merely about your actions in an absolute sense but about your actions relative to your POWER. The vast vast majority of animals are as amoral as the worst psychopath humanity has to offer, and are not intelligent enough to possess a sense of justice to even remotely offset it either. Again demonstrating their inability to think beyond what their immediate senses show them (Immediate gut reaction = I've seen humans commit genocide but i've never seen animals commit genocide therefore it must be because animals are morally superior to humans)

>>19738391
there are billions of people. why all this effort just to save the lives of a few moribund ones?
people should be taught how to die in a graceful, dignified way, not to clutch to life like a desperate worm. apparently, even with all the talk of eternal life, christians haven't learned that yet.

>>19738477
>Anyone who throws a fit over dogs in China but is fine with this shit is an NPC of the lowest form.
Agreed, but that doesn't make eating pigs evil. Killing any animals for our benefit--be it food or organ transplants--is fine (with a few obvious exceptions like endangered species). People need to become more accepting of eating dogs, not less accepting of eating pigs.

You seem very confident that they don't have critical thinking, when indeed they may just have come to a different conclusion then yourself.

>>19738391
Civilization will collapse under the nuclear holocaust before that horrifying shit becomes reality. Don't worry.

Those commentators are right. Animals are free of malice and are innocent creatures, especially pigs. And it is ridiculous and highly inhuman to suggest we should kill the creature that's most similar to ourselves. The commentators understand what it means to be a human being OP. You are the one that needs to develop le critical thinking skills. Now you could say it is hypocritical of anybody who isn't a vegetarian to make that comment but I am vegetarian and I cannot think of a justification for killing another harmless creature. You'd do well to read Consider the lobster and develop some critical thinking skills.

>>19738593
it’s already reality

>>19738580
>>19738593
>using science to develop surgery that saves peoples' lives is... LE BAD
Come fucking on

Just because science can be used for evil, like Bill Gates and Elon Musk are doing. Doesn't mean you have to turn 180 degrees and become a militant luddite who hates all technology and science regardless of how harmless it is

>>19738582
Regardless of whether eating meat is morally justifiable, killing a pig to use its heart has nothing to do with killing it just to eat its meat. I can live on lentils just fine, I can’t live without an heart.

Also not literature

>>19738603
>I am vegetarian and I cannot think of a justification for killing another harmless creature.
Except for plants, right? You fake-moral bitch.

This is only a slight step above Chinese folk medicine where they cut open some poor panda bear and use it's guts for magic juju powder.

>>19738603
>>19738654
>B-b-b-ut
>PLANTS DON'T FEEL PAIN
Bitch, plants sure as fuck have nociception. How do you know whether or not plants have consciousness and whether their nociception (Which is similar to pain) makes them feel pain or not?

Have you solved the hard problem of consciousness?

And even if they don't insects sure as fuck are also problematic to consider

>>19738645
>>19738623
>>19738593
>>19738580
The more I read, the more I realize you are all just stupid larpers who don't read anything or solely read meme writers to larp. I usually avoid commenting on these threads because the comments are always extremely reddit but I had to say this. You are all retarded. Your brains are dirt. We could use all of your organs instead. Please read some books and not that non fiction meme crap. Read some actual literature. If you're interested in this particular topic, read The Plague dogs and Never let me go. And educate yourself at least a little bit. So disgusting I share a board with such unread commoners!

>>19738645
Do you actually think that transplanting fucking PIG's organs into a human body is not part of the satanic agenda of Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab to reduce God's beings to cattle? You can't be serious.

>>19738668
>doesn't offer a single argument

>>19738665
>>19738654
Plants don't feel pain and even if they did, how many times do you actually "kill" a plant to eat its food? Fruits fall off on their own. It's better to do something than to do nothing. If you can save animals, it's worth doing. You can live on a plant only diet. You cannot live on an animal only diet without dying in 20 years. Think please. Use your brain. This is so embarrassing.

>>19738477
Meh. They just pigs, hombre.

>>19738683
>Plants don't feel pain
>ignores the hard problem of consciousness and asserts to know the conscious experience or lack thereof of a nonhuman creature without any evidence or argument, and also ignores nociception and baselessly assumes that it must not feel like pain even though it serves the exact same purpose

>>19738683
>and even if they did, how many times do you actually "kill" a plant to eat its food? Fruits fall off on their own. It's better to do something than to do nothing. If you can save animals, it's worth doing. You can live on a plant only diet. You cannot live on an animal only diet without dying in 20 years. Think please. Use your brain. This is so embarrassing.

>If you can save animals, it's worth doing.
Why?

>You can live on a plant only diet. You cannot live on an animal only diet without dying in 20 years.
Even if that's true it's a false equivalence, nobody here, not even if they say meat is nutritionally important, is proposing living on an animal-only diet.

>Think please. Use your brain. This is so embarrassing.
Projection

>>19738668
those are some pretty reddit books, mon ami

>>19738708
I did not do that. Think about this. Would you say it's more evil to murder one or two people? Even our "laws" say killing two is worse than killing one. Therefore, killing plants, even though that's not really a thing, is preferable to killing both plants and animals. It is more evil to do the latter than the former. You cannot live on an animal only diet but you can live on a plant only died. Eating animals, therefore, is morally more wrong than eating plants. Also the qualia argument has nothing to do with this. Not sure why you keep bringing that up.

>>19738718
Because you retard, killing both plants and animals is definitely worse than killing only plants. The biggest meat eaters are, ironically, Christians. The first fucking commandment says "Thou shalt not kill".

>even if that's true

It is true

>false equivalence

No you're just too reddit to understand a nuanced argument. Read this
>>19738726

>>19738557
Nice blog fag

what's going on here? I leave for an hour and you guys have all the fun without me

>>19738736
I need the nutrients provided by both plants and animals to be healthy

>>19738422
>>19738391
They are so eager to preach this shit until they or someone they know ends up in the scenario. Then they'll see how equal a pig's life is to a person they love. Vast majority of them would fold, the cunts

>>19738726
>>19738736
You insist that eating plants is less wrong than eating animals because there's less casualties, but firstly, there are still casualties due to all the animals crushed in farming, and second, and most importantly of all: The core point i'm trying to make, is NOT that eating meat causes less pain/death than being a vegan. It's that causing pain/death on unintelligent non-human entities, even if they're just small critters killed by pesticide, just by being alive is INEVITABLE. Therefore, if you consider causing pain/death on unintelligent creatures to be evil, YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE IS UNJUSTIFIABLE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU'RE A VEGAN OR A MEAT EATER, HUMAN EXISTENCE IS HEDONSITICALLY UTILITARIANLY NEGATIVE, YOU CAUSE FAR MORE PAIN AND DEATH THAN PLEASURE BY BEING ALIVE, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK MATERIALIST SKULL OF YOURS.

Just defending being fucking alive as a human, on a moral basis, requires the base axiom that unintelligent's creatures' lives are NOT valuable. There is not a SINGLE human in all of history, not a SINGLE ONE. Who has lived their entire life without inflicting pain/death on atleast 2 animals. This means from a hedonistic utilitarian perspective, EVERY human is evil, EVERY human deserves to die. This is the biggest reason why hedonistic utilitarianism is a dead end, a completely self-destructive morality. The whole point i'm trying to make is to NOT value unintelligent creatures' lives. Because if you do, you ARE evil, you DO NOT deserve to live, regardless of who you are.

>>19738543
>Also no thanks I won't be taking the pig organs
Not in any situation?

>>19738784
You don't and even if you did, that would not make murder any more justifiable. That's like saying "Oh I wanted money, so i killed and old woman and stole all her possessions! You see, I needed money to live!". It's still evil. You're still using your power to dominate a harmless creature. You are, by definition, a predator but you don't do any of the work yourself. Would you really be able to kill a pig in a 1v1? You're probably fat enough to be buddies with the pig, if anything. Regardless, it doesn't matter. You can live on a plant only diet. All you meat eaters, the Infernal city awaits. You will burn in hell forever.

>>19738452
Based. Everyone should read Mitchell Heisman's Suicide Note to come to this same conclusion

They're not wrong though.
>>19738603
Why are you a vegetarian and not a vegan?

>>19738683
>You can live on a plant only diet.
Healthily?
How?

>>19738391
Vegans aren't stupid, they're just pussies

>>19738668
Lol get mad faggot, maybe off yourself while you’re at it

>>19738794
Ah but you see, I do make a distinction and i am not a materialist. Killing a pig or a chicken is not comparable to killing bacteria. For the absolute simplest reason that a bacteria does not possess consciousness. Animals, however (in kingdom animalia) are conscious and do feel pain and joy. And again, my earlier argument of being less evil. Yes, human existence. All existence, by definition is evil, true. But eating animals is still more evil than not eating them as I've already explained. Killing more is more evil than killing less. It is quite simple. I'm surprised you do not understand this. You are, if you eat meat, more evil than those who do not.

>>19738580
So anon, do you have anyone you love in your life?

>>19738518
>When you realise that 90% of humanity aren't actually sentient your life will get much easier.
This. I've given up on people having any actual ethics. If not for fear of retribution most people would openly advocate to rape and kill and eat other people just the same as they openly broadcast that they have no.empathy for animals. Human "morality" is literally just a front for cowardice, or just empty posturing whenever it's convenient. Anyone who acts morally for the sake of acting morally, either toward people or animals or anything, really, like God, is treated like an anomaly. Most people are just talking chimps who are also intelligent enough to know how convenient it is to lie.

>>19738810
Because I don't see why you shouldn't be able to eat eggs

I genuinely don’t understand this handwringing over animals. I like animals, both in nature and those who are our food and pets. But at the end of the day they are automatons or robots made out of flesh. Should we be cruel to them? Not without cause, because being cruel without cause is unhealthy. But at the same time if medical advances require the suffering of pigs, oh well. I’d rather hundreds of pigs suffer than one human.

Maybe it’s a cultural thing. I’m not of European culture or ethnicity and I’ve noticed a lot of the people who care about this stuff are. But honestly, if it is a cultural thing, grow up.

>>19738645
>>19738668
I am not antiscience, that would eb ridiculous. I'm not vegan either. I'm just saying that humans would benefit a lot more from learning how to die with grace and dignity than by having a goddamn pig heart inside of him.
The second point is that human life is not that valuable. there's billions around. most of them are just dead weight

christcucks, my question: will any of you take this pig heart?

>>19738855
You are probably not very intelligent is all

>>19738802
>It's still evil. You're still using your power to dominate a harmless creature
Where do you think pigs would be if we didn't utilize them mainly through eating?
>You are, by definition, a predator but you don't do any of the work yourself. Would you really be able to kill a pig in a 1v1?
If he was starving I'm pretty sure he could
>Regardless, it doesn't matter. You can live on a plant only diet.
With or without supplementation?
>All you meat eaters, the Infernal city awaits. You will burn in hell forever.
According to which religion? Christianity doesn't value human and animal life the same

>>19738864
>I'm just saying that humans would benefit a lot more from learning how to die with grace and dignity than by having a goddamn pig heart inside of him.
Why?
>The second point is that human life is not that valuable. there's billions around. most of them are just dead weight
Let's see what you think about that when shit actually hits the fan

>>19738391
Books on how westerners became so weak and pathetic? Half of those commenters probably have to take pills to keep them from crying themselves to death over a cheeseburger

>>19738827
Does your opinion only relate to modern society, or would you feel the same about some ancient society?

>>19738838
>If not for fear of retribution most people would openly advocate to rape and kill and eat other people
Says more about you than other people. Do you lack empathy?

>>19738878
>where do you think pigs would be if we

Humans shouldn't play God. They would be where they would be.

>with or without supplementation

Indian sages live without meat past 90

>Christianity doesn't view human and animal life the same

Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt love thy neighbor. And read the book of Isaiah

>>19738889
Decline of the west by spengler. Also a history book that focuses on the west

>>19738889
I genuinely want serious literature that explores this issue, not conspiracy retardation or pop-sci or anti-jewish propaganda, but something that analyzes the issue without necessarily trying to solve it as those are usually cringe

>>19738886
because it's fucking debasing. it's a pig's heart for fuck's sake. don't you have any qualms about it? are you just an unapologetic materialist? no space for aesthetic or moral judgment of life?
in any case, learning how to die prevents a lot of suffering. I say that because I've testified it.
>when shit actually hits the fan
what does that even mean? your beloved race war will never happen, idiot

>>19738827
>And again, my earlier argument of being less evil. Yes, human existence. All existence, by definition is evil, true. But eating animals is still more evil than not eating them as I've already explained. Killing more is more evil than killing less. It is quite simple. I'm surprised you do not understand this. You are, if you eat meat, more evil than those who do not.
Holy shit, you really bit the bullet? You really do think every person who has ever lived is evil due to the mere act of eating? I honestly think being so diehardedly committed to hedonistic utilitarianism that you reject your own existence as evil is mentally ill, but i atleast respect the conviction on your part to not back down when faced with the anti-human implications of being a hedonist. The vast majority of hedonists would have just pussied out the moment i brought up that human existence, even as a vegan, is inherently a hedonic net negative and as such unjustifiable from that stance.

What makes you so immensely convinced of hedonistic utilitarianism principles and that all lives are equal? Would you step into the pleasure machine? Do you think Brave New World is a utopia? When did you become so convinced of all of this?

Gentle reminder that practical-hedonistic immorality backed by proud hypocrisy (both ways, because most vegans eat meat too, except secretly) is why the world is fucking shit and everyone's life in the future will be producing dragon dildos 90 hours a week while on lobotomy pills. And this is exactly what this species deserves.

>>19738827
>the more you are like me the less i want to kill you.
its just basic egoism bro.

>>19738889
I dunno. I think it’s something like if you grow coddled enough, regular parts of life seem cruel to you. Westerners have been coddled since the Boomer generation. Look at China in contrast. They give zero regards to this stuff and are emerging as the hegemon in science and technology.

>>19738840
Ever seen how poultry is treated regardless of whether it's for eggs or meat?

>>19738855
Is it even reasonable to say that pigs "suffer"? Suffering is a human concept. To suffer, one must possess a self-aware consciousness, which undergoes suffering. Animals experience pain, dumb sharp sting to the nerves that spurs their bodies to action of avoiding the source of painful sensation. But pigs, or other non-human animals, do not have a soul which puts this pain within the concept of conscious being, turning pain into the suffering of a creature which gazes upon it's own wretched existence. To fret over animal suffering is not only pathetic but also retarded. My smartphone is smarter than any pig on the planet, should I cry if it falls down and cracks the screen?

>>19738903
No I do not lack empathy. Sadly even if I hate people I still feel compassion for them although they deserve none.

>>19738910
>Humans shouldn't play God. They would be where they would be.
They would be dead is what you mean. Strange that you think an animal surviving on other animals equates to playing God. Should we also stop preserving wildlife? Isn't that playing God? Should we never have used horses, and never have integrated dogs into our society?
>Indian sages live without meat past 90
Are they vegans or vegetarians, and do you actually have any proof of this?
>Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt love thy neighbor. And read the book of Isaiah
I'm pretty sure the Bible also says that animals were made to serve humanity

>>19738913
>it's a pig's heart for fuck's sake. don't you have any qualms about it?
Not him, but it’s literally just an organ. It’s a heart, a glorified water pump. Who cares if it came from a pig’s body? If I needed it to survive I’d take it from the pig. Does thinking this way make me a materialist?

>>19738917
Think of it as a number line. Those who don't eat meat are at say 5. Those who eat little meat are at 10. The Chinese are at 50. Murderers/butchers are further ahead. I am neither a hedonist, nor an utilitarian. I an very much a Christian. I think you should read some books and not Wikipedia articles and develop some real debating skills. You're probably worthless in society's view anyway. You cannot even parse my argument anon. When did I say all lives are equal?

>>19738933
>But pigs, or other non-human animals, do not have a soul
Source?

>>19738391
There is a middle ground that needs to be established.

>>19738913
>because it's fucking debasing. it's a pig's heart for fuck's sake. don't you have any qualms about it? are you just an unapologetic materialist? no space for aesthetic or moral judgment of life?
I'm not a materialist, but i don't value aesthetics more than my fucking life man, sorry. If anything you seem quite materialistic to think that aesthetics take precedence over preserving a person's mind.

If i had a neurological disease that would make me braindead in a year and the only way to cure it was to get a surgery to become a deformed nightmarish looking monster like pic related i would reluctantly agree. The mind's more important than the body is it not?

Ah the glorious future where eating meat from pigs is bad, but stuffing humans full of pig organs is a triumph.

Disgusting, degrading to the human spirit. I would rather not be alive than have my humanity compromised by the organs of other lesser beings.

Jews and Bug People are so neurotic and fearful of death they will have our noble humanity destroyed and transformed into bug eating pig people.

>>19738761
Not him, but KYS faggot.

>>19738557
You're also glossing over a rather large part of them who view it as an act and nothing else. There are diehard leftoids out there who disagree with it's entire shtick but use it nonetheless for its grifting potential as well as potential to acquire power.

Social climber-larpers always sound like the staunchest defenders of the ideology they use for their own ends.

>>19738951
what would that look like? it seems that we're already headed there by trying to cut down on meat consumption and cruelty to animals, and some farmers try to raise them in the appropriate conditions, so as long as that keeps going?

>>19738940
There's plenty proof if you look.

>they would be dead is what you mean

What would happen is pigs would've simply evolved or else gone extinct and be spared the pain of dying in factories. Do you not see how absurd it is to sell life?

>>19738913
>because it's fucking debasing. it's a pig's heart for fuck's sake
So? It's just organic matter that has a mechanical function. The heart isn't even visible to you. If we start talking about using pig eyes, then you have my attention, but only because that shit would be uncanny as hell to our social sensibilities
> don't you have any qualms about it? are you just an unapologetic materialist?
I would much prefer a human heart, yes, but I'm not going to argue against my mother getting a pig's heart if that's the only way she'll survive until next week. Same with myself
>no space for aesthetic or moral judgment of life?
You think it's more moral to die than live? What if you're responsible for other people, like your children?
>learning how to die prevents a lot of suffering. I say that because I've testified it.
Learning how to survive does too.
>what does that even mean? your beloved race war will never happen, idiot
When you or someone you love is standing in the sitution. That's what I mean. I'm not talking about some race war. What the fuck would make you think that?

>>19738940
Jeus said that it is not what enters a man which defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth. And what comes out of people's mouths on this subject is always vile and despicable, and shows that most people really have nothing good in them when they feel that they do not need to posture.

>>19738962
>There's plenty proof if you look.
Aha
>What would happen is pigs would've simply evolved or else gone extinct and be spared the pain of dying in factories.
So instead of having life and benefiting other life, you'd much prefer they died off years ago
>Do you not see how absurd it is to sell life?
How about you respond to the rest of my post? Do you think humans should stop preserving species? Do you think horses and dogs should not have been domesticated?

Human life is worth more than animal life in any degree. Simple as.

>>19738975
Why do you pretend you give a fuck about the fate of pigs? God you are so disgustingly insincere. All this philosophy and you become disgusting nihilistic hedonists as soon as muh fucking bacon is at stake. I hope you all burn in Hell after a miserable life of serving the machine-State.

>>19738975
>so would you prefer they died years ago

Would you rather die or be bred for meat? How do you justify beating a pregnant pig with a stick till its dead? What justification can be there for such cruelty?

>rest of your post

I think there is a commonly agreed good. Since humans started the process of domestication and are responsible for extinction and endangerment of certain species, they must now preserve them. This is the commonly agreed good.

>>19738946
So what about those that eat human meat? Do you consider them to be worse for the act of consuming not only meat but also their fellow man, or less worse to the effect that removing a human from the pool of those that potentially consume meat is good?

>>19738477
You are the one lacking critical thinking skills by assuming that suffering is inherently wrong and that intelligence is a metric of worth.

>>19738996
Obviously...that depends on the human being and character. I see what you're trying to get me to say is that my arguments lead to logical holes but that isn't true. That part can be answered by subjectivism.

>>19738992
>Why do you pretend you give a fuck about the fate of pigs? God you are so disgustingly insincere
Who said I did? I'm trying to find out what YOU think about living things
> All this philosophy and you become disgusting nihilistic hedonists as soon as muh fucking bacon is at stake. I hope you all burn in Hell after a miserable life of serving the machine-State.
Dude, you should do some actual thinking on the matter. Start actually arguing the points I'm putting forward instead of recoiling in useless rage

>>19738979
Correct. I really don’t understand how anyone can think otherwise.

>>19739007
So then it could be said that in subjective situations eating meat is not as a whole evil, as long as it is done for moral reasons

>>19739010
That's not me. That's this >>19738917 guy who got btfo

Why wouldn't you seek to avoid animal suffering if you could, to the extent of your abilities?
This existence is evil, by staying alive you are committing evil acts. But less evil is always preferable to more evil.

>>19738964
>When you or someone you love is standing in the sitution. That's what I mean.
I've witnessed a life fully lived closing itself. It is possible. No retarded drama and things left unsaid, just someone who learned to die and who I supposed would've also been disgusted by the prospect of having a pig's heart.
>So? It's just organic matter that has a mechanical function.
That's all you had to say. We have no epistemological common ground to discuss.

>>19739024
>That's not me. That's this >>19738917 (You) guy who got btfo

>>19738917 here, firstly, no i'm not, i wouldn't resort to telling that vegan anon to "burn in hell" or telling him he's insincere, that's childish

And second of all, where and when did i "get BTFO?"

>>19739035
>That's all you had to say. We have no epistemological common ground to discuss.
Not him, but explain why this is incorrect. In my eyes it’s objectively true. Like I said earlier, it’s a water pump.

Pigs eat the flesh of smaller living creatures.
Pigs are intelligent and sentient.

But if humans do the same thing uts bad.

>>19739019
What is "justifiable" can also be evil. Murder is always evil though. However, whether it is evil to kill the human who'd kill the animal can be answered subjectively like this. Say, you're a murderer. You're at, say, 100 in the number line. Killing you is still evil but not a great evil. Killing a human being that would kill an animal that has never killed or hurt anyone, a farm pig, is obviously way more evil. As for eating meat, that's still evil and "justifiable" at the same time when it is done to preserve your own existence. But in the practical, modern world, killing animals is done solely for taste buds which is despicable.

>>19738953
>If i had a neurological disease that would make me braindead in a year and the only way to cure it was to get a surgery to become a deformed nightmarish looking monster like pic related i would reluctantly agree
You say that like it is a reasonable decision. It is not. I'd go as far as to say that you might actually deserve to die for having such a disgusting opinion.
And what's with all the talk about mind, considering you barely have a functioning one?

>>19738994
>Would you rather die or be bred for meat?
Depends on the living conditions and to what extent I'm aware. You see, pigs are not humans. You can't ask me if I want to live like a pig and think that's a valid argument unless you claim that pigs have just as much consciousness and "value" as humans.
> How do you justify beating a pregnant pig with a stick till its dead?
lol what? Why do you make these ridiculous scenarios? I much prefer the pigs die as painlessly as possible. I'd also be fine with synthetic meat that functions exactly like real pig meat. However, I do not think that a pig should keep its heart if it means that a human dies
>I think there is a commonly agreed good. Since humans started the process of domestication and are responsible for extinction and endangerment of certain species, they must now preserve them. This is the commonly agreed good.
So if you had to make the decision between pigs being kept alive and eaten, or all of them being killed tomorrow, which would you pick? Also, I'm pretty sure that for most people, it's a commonly agreed good to keep humans alive. You somehow seem to think that we don't have responsibility for ourselves. You don't seem to think that a child should be spared in exchange for a pig's heart

>>19739055
What is so disgusting about his opinion? In that thought experiment, he was just acting in his best interest and sparing himself from disease. If you wouldn’t do that I’d think you were vain.

>>19739035
>>19739055
>>So? It's just organic matter that has a mechanical function.
>That's all you had to say. We have no epistemological common ground to discuss.
Why do you keep assuming that we're materialists? Whether or not i think the human mind is material (And i don't even think that) is irrelevant to this simple fact: No material thing has inherent worth attached to it, the only worth it has is what worth it serves the human mind, and the body is just another material thing, therefore the best body is the one that serves the best purpose to you, therefore a diseased body that's gonna kill you is worse than a body that's uglier but will cure you, as long as you don't value beauty over your own life, do you not agree? Is valuing beauty over human life not vain and materialistic?

>>19739052
And so all the predators in the wild, by that logic, must be an infinite number of magnitudes worse than the modern butcher. A cougar would just as readily tear out a baby does throat as it would an aging and near dead bison's. So now we come to the question of subjective suffering, is it worse to live in a cage for 10 years with all your needs met to the barest of minimums and be given a swift death at the hands of an emotionally dead worker on the factory line, or to live free as a bird for 5 years, facing all the struggles and challenges of the world in that time, only to be torn apart and eaten alive by a crocodile?

>>19739068
>pigs are not aware

That makes it all the worse. You don't think it is messed up to make an animal think you're their friend and then suddenly kill them?

>ridiculous scenarios

That shit actually happens. What you prefer is not reality.

>to keep humans alive

That obviously depends on the human but you should read Never let me go. That should answer your question.

“Western Civilization is destroyed when vegans comment on ted talks about killing pigs” is this what happened to discourse on here after /pol/ went from blatant neo nazism to magapede 2016?? Can’t we just scare brown people off our boards with swastickas anymore? These posts are so low iq OP deserves to be shot in the head.Heil Hitler 1488

>>19739035
>I've witnessed a life fully lived closing itself
What a bunch of vague nonsense
> It is possible. No retarded drama and things left unsaid
It's possible for you to commit suicide right this instant with no retarded drama. Why do you continue to live instead of dying with dignity, anon?
>just someone who learned to die and who I supposed would've also been disgusted by the prospect of having a pig's heart.
How have you learned to die, fellow living poster on 4chins? Why would a pig's heart disgust you, but not a human's? Do you think flesh and cells are different beyond their architecture?
>That's all you had to say. We have no epistemological common ground to discuss.
Indeed

>>19739049
THIS
There were even cases of pigs eating small children and being hanged for it in the Middle Ages.
I stopped feeling guilty about eating bacon after reading Animal Farm, fuck Porky.

>>19739083
No, we don't because you ignore "necessity". The butcher makes a conscious choice.

>>19739072
>>19739044
You seem to be all set for the enduring nightmare that will be transhumanism.
Remember, when it happens, that you share the guilt. It will not be the fault of tech businessmen, the media and regulators alone.

If this ubermaterialist frame of thought is the only one that you allow yourselves to have, then I've got nothing to say to you. It makes no difference whatsoever.

Also: CHRISTKEKS, tell me: would you take the PIG HEART?

>>19739104
The predator makes a conscious choice as well. Have you not seen videos of predators being friendly with humans that they could just as easily devour without a second thought?

>>19738979
That doesn't make animal life worthless, you dumb fuck.
>>19739049
Yes because what makes you different than beasts is having a developed morality, not being slightly more intelligent than a pig.

>>19739112
It is their nature. Humans can choose and live without it. Not the same thing. Animals are free of malice.

>>19739098
>hurr durr why don't you kill urself??
fuck off you little bitch

>>19738477
Do you think we have a problem with using dog organs or something?

>>19738913
>>19739055
>>19739075
Actually, to put it in a more concise and direct manner

Imagine a hypothetical world in which the appearances of an obese person and a muscular person are swapped.

Imagine that muscle was bouyant and soft, yet served the same purpose it does now, still boosted your health and strength; Whereas fat was solid and tense and attractive, yet it still gave you tons of health problems and worsened your physical performance.

Is being muscular in this World still preferable to being obese to you even though it has worse aesthetics?

>>19739109
>You seem to be all set for the enduring nightmare that will be transhumanism.
I think transhumanism is gonna turn out bad because it will massively increase inequality and create potential for an unstoppable, untouchable elite of superhumans brutally oppressing powerless peasants with inferior enhancements. As well as for said peasants to be permanently distracted by instant gratification wireheading of massive pleasure being beamed directly into their brain

You think transhumanism is bad because cyborgs will be ugly or something

The second one seems pretty fucking stupid to me

>>19739109
You keep saying that those positions are bad but you aren’t saying WHY. Why is it wrong?

>>19739092
>That makes it all the worse. You don't think it is messed up to make an animal think you're their friend and then suddenly kill them?
What do you mean by friend? Do you think pigs understand this concept like we do? Do you think pigs are aware of their lot in life as a human would? Do you think a pig can conceptualize death and individuality like we can?
>That shit actually happens. What you prefer is not reality.
And pigs having a good life before being killed happens as well. What you prefer is not reality, and I'm willing to bet my scenario happens more often than yours
>That obviously depends on the human
I agree. Since it depends on the human, I assume you would prefer a pig dying instead of someone you love, right?
>but you should read Never let me go. That should answer your question.
I would rather you answer my questions

>>19739118
It is man's nature to consume as well, as can be seen by our constant drive to reach greater heights of material consumption. This is because man is a predator, at his most vulnerable core, and he always will be. Man will always desire to consume for his own biological drive. Consumption for the sake of consumption if you will. You being able to see above what 80% of the planet does not is a fluke of biology or the spirit, both function the same in this instance. The Eskimo will always seek to consume the seal, the African will always seek to consume the buffalo. Just because you believe western man may hold himself higher in his consumption means nothing in the grand scheme of what you may consider humanity. Thus man is as an animal and is free of his sin for the consumption of flesh

>>19739119
But why not? Since you prefer dying when you don't at all have to, for the sake of a pig, then I suggest you cease living so that you can spare the atmosphere your modern contribution of CO2. That's playing God I'd say, and it is affecting the life forms on this earth. Good job not engaging with my reply, btw

>>19739127
>Imagine a hypothetical world... where I'm fat but healthy
>I think transhumanism is gonna turn out bad because it will massively increase inequality...
Another American socialist... fuck off fatso. No wonder you are on the forefront of transhumanism

Yes, beauty matters indeed. But is that aesthetic dimension I'm talking about? We can't see the fucking pig heart inside of you (not me). I'm sure it would be disgusting to see it, but that's not the point. The idea itself of having the heart of pig pumping blood inside of you is repulsive - an aesthetic term - enough to push one away from this idea. If you don't feel that, if you don't find debasing to have a piece of a notoriously filthy animal as your most prominent organ, then it's over.

Eat you pork burger then get your pork heart, fatty

>>19739134
>do you think pigs understand.. bla bla
You cannot be this dumb. Surely, you know dogs and cats can think of you as their friend right?
>my scenario happens more than yours
Which country do you live in? What's a "good life"? Can it be a good life if the date of death is not something you can ever alter?
>someone you love
Appeal to emotion. This is a bad argument regardless, because surely, you'd also prefer someone you love over millions of strangers.
>you should answer my questions
I am but after reading a few books about this topic, you'll "realize" it. Me giving you arguments will not help you form your own internal debate.

>let's not only breed them to consume their bodies but let's breed them to harvest their organs too
I hate this fucking faggot species

>>19739144
So you don't think we should aspire to a higher level of morality than the predator? Isn't that what most anti vegans' whole shtick is? That man is greater than animal? Not accusing you but just wondering..

>>19738557
Cringe drivel.

>>19738933
>My smartphone is smarter than any pig on the planet,
Holy shit you're a fucking retard lol. How do human beings get like this?

>>19739183
Can one not aspire to a higher morality whilst eating meat? Must one become a jainist to fully reach nirvana? Has the Christians' lord not given them dominion over all the animals of land and sea to do with what they want? As you yourself said it is subjective and thus higher morality itself is subjective. If a man desires to strive for higher morality whilst eating meat then so let him, if he does not then do not force him. Each man's higher morality will vary with his higher thinking.

>>19739177
If we benefit from it, what is wrong with that? The only valid argument against meat consumption is its effects on the environment, which will come back to affect humans negatively. And no one itt has been able to give a good explanation as to why the heart transplant is bad at all.

>>19739160
>Another American socialist... fuck off fatso. No wonder you are on the forefront of transhumanism
Amazing, you got literally everything wrong

Firstly, i'm not a socialist, you don't have to be a socialist to think extreme inequality is bad; Second, i'm not fat and don't eat bacon or whatever other junk food you think i do, it was a hypothetical; Third, i'm not at "the forefront of transhumanism", i'm fucking terrified of transhumanism because i know it's gonna give the elites way more power than they already have; Hell, i'm not even American, i'm Spanish. Maybe you should get better reading comprehension and stop jumping to strawman conclusions

That was so stupid i'm not engaging further, you're either trolling or really dense LMAO

>>19739144
This faux grandiose "humanity fuck yeah" prose you faggots pump out is the cringiest tripe to ever come out of this site in a decade.

>>19739204
You don't have a soul, shitwit, you don't get to ask questions.

>>19739162
>You cannot be this dumb. Surely, you know dogs and cats can think of you as their friend right?
You essentially just restated what you already said, so let me do the same. Do you think dogs and cats understand friendship as we do? Do you think they are aware of their lot in life as humans are? Do you think dogs and cats can conceptualize death and individuality like we can? Do you really think that they are capable of being plagued by thoughts in the same way humans can be?
>Which country do you live in? What's a "good life"? Can it be a good life if the date of death is not something you can ever alter?
Denmark. A good life is plenty of space, food, clean environment and proper treatment from the staff
>Appeal to emotion.
Could I appeal to you for an answer instead of yet another quasi deflection?
>This is a bad argument regardless, because surely, you'd also prefer someone you love over millions of strangers.
Yeah, I very well might if that choice came knocking. Hard to say what one would feel before such a thing has occurred. But I'd also prefer a million strangers over a million pigs
>I am but after reading a few books about this topic, you'll "realize" it. Me giving you arguments will not help you form your own internal debate.
I probably won't. We are fundamentally in disagreement on the value of life, so I doubt very much a book will provide me with an argument so compelling that I'll join your camp. If you mean reading it for the sake of understanding you specifically, then I still prefer you do your own arguing

>>19738802
I've killed and eaten rabbits. Raised them, held them, pet them. I broke their necks, cut off their head, skinned them. I have their skins as lap warmers. Very nice. They're tasty too.
Life and death are the same phenomena, you can't have one without the other. You're fooling yourself if you think killing an animal for food is wrong.

>>19738391

>can you believe that these people don't want to shove a pig heart in their body because they're not so afraid of death and the natural cycle that they won't go to the ends of the earth and do literally anything including to live a little longer

yeah they're the crazy ones...

>>19739202
No, because commonly held good and evil dictate murder to be bad. Meat is a hurdle you must pass. Also, read Isaiah.

>>19739214
You're a faggot. Denying morality means you lost the argument.

>>19739210
You're looking at it like a net loss of life, instead of thinking that the heart of the pig would save a human's life. If you say that is a waste, you must think that there is no difference in the mind of a human and a pig. That life and death both have the same value for each. You don't approve of animal experiments either, I assume

>>19739210
So the only argument against the pig heart transplant is superstition? You can do better than that.

>>19739221
Then we come back to all predators in nature being as evil as the average man who no longer even knows where their meat comes from.
>>19739206
It's basic bitch tier hierarchical structuring. The sapient lion would also sing his own praises as the apex of life and evolution

>>19739235
Stop consuming corn syrup, non-human.

>>19739229
I'm not a utilitarian insect like you, I look at it as a sentient being forced to suffer for demonic apes.

>>19739227
I'm more in touch with these animals than you'll ever be. Your fear of nature is palpable. You are justifying your fear by defending unnatural, slave based morality. The weak should fear the strong.

>>19739263
Muh law of the jungle on 4channel dot com lol. You are parodies of yourselves

>>19739212
>dogs and cats

No, probably not exactly the same. But they do feel betrayal and attachment.

>his definition of a good life is the same as a that of a slave with a good owner

>million strangers to a million pigs
Well, yes because you have to "mediate" pigs. Wouldn't it be best for it to be 700k humans and 200k pigs? That's what most people would pick.

I see, we are different it seems. However, of course, this belief that vegans have no "critical thinking skills" is an extremely reddit one and you should drop it.

>>19739202
I don't proselytize and if someone wants to eat meat then I'm not the kind of faggot to go "ummm that's evil", but I think it's good to attempt to at least minimize the evil you cause, even if it's on a microcosmic scale. Trying to not be too complicit with an industry that breeds hundreds of millions of animals, lets them live among their own shit and the decomposing corpses of other members of their species, then inflicts considerable pain upon them before killing them, is not too unreasonable.

>>19739259
I think you're likely a cunt in real life. You sound like a certain fitness Youtuber by the name of "vegangains". He uses rhetoric like you do, with the same disdain for humans, and he has absolutely zero empathy for other people. You might just be having a bad day, or be very, very idealistic, but you really comes off as a colossal dick, ironically enough

>>19739288
I don't give a shit who I remind you of, faggot.

>>19739271
>Oh no! Only incels are on the internet you must be larping!
You are a weak person. Live in the country instead of a 1 bedroom flat in the middle of a metropolis, you might learn something about life.

>>19739284
Yeah at least we can have a semi reasonable discussion without too much autism on both sides. As far as factory farming goes it still pales in comparison to the conditions we subject a fellow man to whilst charging him for the right to be enslaved to his debt, but I generally agree that free range farming is vastly preferable to a cow that's been loaded to the gills with antibiotics and other shit like that

>>19739214
Damn what a massive cope
If life and death are really the same phenomenon then you should feel just as happy to die of starvation not eating other things but you aren't are you and neither is any other living thing

>>19739299
Just because you can become desensitized to evil doesn't mean it's good. Not a very airtight argument.

>>19738864
>christcucks, my question: will any of you take this pig heart?
If someone does that they're not christians, simple as that. Having pig's organs inside of you is the most horrifying thing I can imagine, and it will never work even from a scientific perspective. This world is rotting in its own feces. (The feces are the positivistic and materialistic thought).

Everyone will be punished for such horrors.

>>19739300
>it still pales in comparison to the conditions we subject a fellow man
You'd be hard pressed nowadays to find any man who has never seen the light of day, had his teeth removed without anesthesia, seen his siblings crushed to death under the weight of his mother rendered immobile by metal shackles for the sake of efficiency, forced to live in his own shit and sleep next to the rotting corpses of his brothers, beaten and occasionally raped with electric probes before being eventually brought to a room where his throat gets slit and he gets dunked in a pool of scalding water to finish him off.
The average factory farming animal goes through immeasurable amounts of suffering compared to even the average third worlder.

>>19739316
So why are you attacking people eating to stay alive? Wind, nothing but wind.

>>19739300
>s far as factory farming goes it still pales in comparison to the conditions we subject a fellow man to whilst charging him for the right to be enslaved to his debt

Pic related pales in comparison to student loans lmao. How do you people breathe?

So when they ban the pork meat consumption, and mandate pig organs (for gentiles only, Jews and Muslims will still get the human stuff, naturally, of course), what are they going going to do with the meat flesh of the animal? Just throw it away?

>>19739325
Why are you attacking him? Nihilistic drivel. Zoroastrian renaissance when? I hate you fucking rats like you wouldn't believe.

>>19738477
I also don't eat pork because I believe they are too intelligent to be killed for such a use (the more intelligent an animal is, the more I care about them, because intelligence and depth of emotional experience usually go hand in hand), but I would have absolutely no problem with killing a pig to save another human being. There are certain rare instances where I wouldn't (for example if the person was mentally handicapped to the point where they had less cognition than a pig), but in the vast majority of cases I would.

>>19739274
>No, probably not exactly the same
That's an understatement
>But they do feel betrayal and attachment.
But do they understand the concept of both? I don't think a cat or dog knows a betrayal is happening or has happened, only the direct stimuli of the action. A dog and cat will not be betrayed, and then go in the other room and reflect on why that is and what it means for the future. They do not have the ability for it. If they did, they would show behavior much closer to our own
>his definition of a good life is the same as a that of a slave with a good owner
For a pig? You bet
>Well, yes because you have to "mediate" pigs. Wouldn't it be best for it to be 700k humans and 200k pigs? That's what most people would pick.
Uh, sure
>this belief that vegans have no "critical thinking skills"
I don't think that's true. I think certain people lack critical thinking skills, and that some of them happen to be vegan. I do however see that vegans often disregard the value of human life
>is an extremely reddit one and you should drop it.
>2021+1
>actually uses the term reddit to denounce an opinion
Anon, that's something a 17 year old would say

>>19739298
I don't expect you give a shit about anyone

>>19739320
>Having pig's organs inside of you is the most horrifying thing I can imagine
Why? Why is it so bad? You and others react to this in horror, and I just don’t get it. When I saw the news I literally thought “Oh cool!”. It’s a positive development. More people will be able to live longer and healthier lives.

>>19739324
>The average factory farming animal goes through immeasurable amounts of suffering compared to even the average third worlder.
That's a bold claim, and a very vague one

Wow, thanks for all the book suggestions /lit/! This thread definitely wasn't intentionally engineered to cause a shitstorm.

>>19739325
All I'm attacking is your cope
Sure all living things eat to survive and do a lot of things to survive but don't kid yourselves that you are anything but purely selfish beings built to consume at the expense of your surroundings
Don't think that any other creature is fine with dying for your sake to absolve you of the guilt you feel

>>19739356
I don't, I hate human beings, if there was a way to separate those with souls from those without I'd genocide the latter in a heartbeat.

>>19739335
No, I would believe it. Hate, hate, hate. That's all I see from you. For all your moral posturing, you seem rotten

>>19738391
You cant. They exist on feelings. That is not thinking. Cant be emotional and rational at the same time. There is also the problem with locus of control. These people blame the world for everything, and hardly ever reflects on their own behaviour, external locus of control.

>>19739363
Hmmm yes very bold claim if I do say so sir hmmm yes very vague if I may add as well hmm yes indeed hmmm

Faggot.

>>19739363
>That's a bold claim,
Yes, if you conveniently ignore the rest of my post

>>19739324
>didn't read the part where I said I don't like factory farming
Yes but there is an end to their suffering, relatively quickly compared to the long lived animals. Man meanwhile is expected to break his back, suffer on in grudging pain, die to the most inhumane of killing methods, return home to homelessness, starvation and death on the streets, and for what? An ivory tower elite to look down and tell him he has not done enough, that he will never do enough and demand that he give up evermore of his shrinking pool of "privileges" to help others that won't think about him twice. You'd sooner give a prey animal more rights than all the men in the world for the sake of your own conscience.

>>19739376
lol thanks for confirming my suspicion. Good luck with that, yeah

>>19739378
>uuuh destroyers of life need hugs, too
Eat shit you fucking pussy

Threadly reminder that wet farts are in fact based.

>>19739384
Yes because those men inflict their suffering and malaise down the chain of being, retard. Fuck them and fuck you. A pig can't do anything about its conditions, those """men""" still have balls, don't they? They still have two legs and a brain, don't they?

>>19739382
Oh, is that the average farming factory across the entire world, which can be compared to the average third worlder? What nations are you talking about, exactly? What is an average third worlder?

>>19739391
no u

>>19739384
So them being brutally tortured for 5 years is fine because they'll end up dead anyway and at least the torture doesn't last longer? kek
You wouldn't last even a week if subjected to those "living" conditions. But sure, being a wagie or losing your home is worse than being born, raised and killed in a torture chamber where you are constantly subjected to things that would make the cartels blush.
>You'd sooner give a prey animal more rights than all the men in the world
Any other strawmen you'd like to show me?

>>19739373
Talk about projecting, i never claimed that. I said the weak should fear the strong, kind of the opposite of what you're saying.
These animals should fear humans, THE apex predator on the planet. Saying an apex predator should not be a predator is nature and science denying, but what else can you expect from these types?

>>19738391
Worry about yourself.

>>19739198
>>My smartphone is smarter than any pig on the planet,
>Holy shit you're a fucking retard lol. How do human beings get like this?
He's literally right and you're just coping with it, fool!

There are literal chatbot AIs, CHATBOTS, that are smarter than any animal in the World except for humans, there are programmers out there who could code an AI smarter than any pig in a few fucking weeks nigga, it would BARELY be even HARD for them. Even a literal BUILDING SIZED, no, SKYSCRAPER SIZED super-hyper-mega computer like Fugaku running the most cutting edge AI in the World can't compete with the teeny tiny human brain which is- and i say this with NO HYPERBOLE- a billion, literally a BILLION times smaller than it, you buffoon... and even AIs of this magnitude, even SKYSCRAPER SIZED DEMIGODS OF COMPUTING? They are still MILES away from competing with human creativity and reasoning.

With this in mind the gap in intellect between humans and the 2nd next smartest animal the dolphin is so huge, so colossal, so ASTRONOMICAL that there is likely a BIGGER gap in intellect between humans and dolphins than there is between dolphins and BACTERIA.

To compare the human mind to a pig, it's not just another World... it's an entirely different DIMENSION, you IGNORAMUS! You insult the magnificent geniuses of history, our Godels, Eschers and Bachs, unravelers of reality, adventurers of the Dark, i will simply not stand by this folly of those who divert so much aid that could have been spent HUMANITARIANLY instead towards these PISSANT simpletons we call animals! Our inner world is both a labyrinth and an ABYSS, our conscience the life-risking explorer of this GARGANTUAN lake of fire in search of coveted glittery goods of the mind. One must grasp the most contradictory of contradictions in order to decrypt the ENIGMAS of the conflicted human soul: At night an Apollonian forum of stoic rationality and at night a Dionysian dance of denial and coping mechanisms. A DEMIGOD of creative spirit in his own comfortable domain, and a DAEMON ablaze by the ira of spiteful destruction when encroached by the night. A sordid heart of gold which aches for the christlike REDEMPTION of this WICKED Universe, yet in rest a certain immature comedic playfulness at the tragic Molekian happenings of this World!

To be human is to be a LIVING contradiction: A noble Don Quijote, a savage Faustus; Liberating Robin Hood, strangling Mammon; Yeshua and Lucifer; Heracles and Diogenes; DAVID and GOLIATH!

Not even to mention the technical capabilities in which man is the Hephaestian child incarnate! Chemical and electrical engineering, woodworking, literature, computer programming, chess, quantum physics, microbiology, aerodynamics, thermodynamics, sculpting, painting! All clear demonstrations of the inconceivably COMPLEX and SUBLIME World of ideas fashioned by the human virtue and intellect! Another DIMENSION that the simple-minded Lotus-Eaters that animals are, will NEVER, EVER know!

>>19739383
>Yes, if you conveniently ignore the rest of my post
There was no substance to backup your claim in the rest of your post. You just presented a bunch of scenarios

>>19739425
Apex predator is a social constructed invented by the human mind that gives no justification of anything.

>>19739431
Didn't read.

>>19739439
As expected of you, ignoramus, continue to side with the unintelligent and inhuman

>>19739432
>it makes me uncomfortable so it doesn't exist
kek, typical.

>>19739421
Anon, what factories are you talking about? Do you actually have any concrete numbers, any specific areas in mind when you say this? Pig factories are not uniform entities that are run the same across all counties. You get one whiff of abuse and suddenly every single pig farm in the entire world is absolute hell

>>19739362
You don't see why for the simple fact that you don't have a spiritual life. The organs of an animal are not the same as yours, even if they work similarly. Your entire being is an organism, not a mechanism where you can replace parts with other parts. You are not a machine, you are a unique being held together by a miraculous unity. It's already kind of challenging and hazardous to replace one of your organs with another human being's organ (so much so that the body often rejects it), let alone replacing it with a beast's organ.

Ultimately I'd say you're really ignorant. Some researchers have found that organs such as the heart or the intestine hold a sort of "memory" that makes them similar to your brain. They are more brains inside your body. Would you replace your brain with a pig's brain?

These horrors are the gate to even more horrifying practices that the satanic élite wants to promote in order to destroy the concept of human being for ever. For example, replacing parts of you with robot parts. "A robot arm is so much better than a human arm, it never gets weary and can make so many more things in a better way! Why don't you replace it?? You can buy your new arm from our corporation :)))))". And you fall for it. Because you're a colossal idiot. Until there is nothing left of your original being, and you are a puppet in their hands.

Grow up, bro.

>>19739437
So is suffering. It's meaningless without a human experiencing it.
Just a note, i think factory farms are deplorable too. If you want to eat an animal you should be able to kill it yourself.

yes I will keep eating pigs
no I will not be a bugman and cheat death

>>19738391
Just fucking inject me with all the experimental medicine, give me all the fresh pig hearts and then gut me in the street already.

>>19739451
You posting a bunch of scenarios doesn't make me uncomfortable. What makes me uncomfortable is that you think typing out scenarios is substance for a claim. You come off as very neurotic

>>19739455
Different anon here. What do you think about robotic limbs and pacemakers? And if an exact clone of your heart could be made, completely identical biologically, would you accept that as a transplant if you needed it?

>>19739455
What do you think of 3D printed organs then, constructed out of biological matter to be as ideal of a match for your body as possible? If that is not okay, why? It’s replacing your failing organ with another one designed for like your body. If that is okay, is it really that different from a robotic organ, or even an organ from another animal which your body accepts?

>>19739421
Free room and board for life is far from torture. In fact there are entire ideologies built around free room and board.

>>19739476
alright

>>19739454
How certain are you that this is not an accurate representation of what happens in the farms where the meat you eat is sourced? This is such a cowardly retort. "It's probably not absolute hell everywhere so I guess it's fine lol"
>>19739478
Don't care what I come off as to someone who has no empathy and will disingenuously go to any lengths to justify his lack of basic conscience

>>19738802
Go hunting, retard moralfag

>>19739512
>desensitize yourself to cruelty bro, so it isn't cruelty anymore bro
Incredible argument, I'm convinced.

>>19739511
You don't even know why they have those bars there you retard.

>>19739505
>Free room and board for life
If you like flatsharing I guess it's not that bad

>>19738838
Projecting

>>19739524
>no you see it's fine to immobilize the pig for its entire life to the point where you're causing it to develop pressure ulcers that get infected and rot, the bars are here for a reason

>>19739459
So stab yourself and upload the gif I'll wait.

>>19739511
>How certain are you that this is not an accurate representation of what happens in the farms where the meat you eat is sourced?
How am I certain that it is? Because you say so? I can go and find thousands of absolutely horrific videos and images of humans doing awful, despicable shit to each other, but that's hardly proof of what the average human lives like. You don't even seem capable of understanding that conditions vary from country to country, farm to farm. You are incapable of having an measured opinion on this. Pure ideology
>This is such a cowardly retort
Like frontloading a bunch of awful scenarios and then pretending like they're universal facts that you've counted and measured across the entire field of pig domestication
>Don't care what I come off as to someone who has no empathy and will disingenuously go to any lengths to justify his lack of basic conscience
Nah, anon, you're the one who doesn't have empathy for anything other than animals. I don't think you actually love anyone but yourself, based purely on your posts

>>19738912
>Doesn't want anti-jewish books but wants to know why the west is so fucked

>>19739524
yeah surely they're there for the pig's benefit
anon do you really think this argument is gonna work on anybody...

>>19739545
>conditions vary from country to country, farm to farm.
Of course, industrial farming standards in first-world countries are wildly different from one place to another. It's not like maximizing profit while making sure to (barely) stick to regulations in order to not get shut down is the only priority.
>that you've counted and measured
>nooooo you need to personally visit every single pig farm on the planet in order to assert that living conditions for industrial farm animals are suboptimal
lmao
>you're the one
Ah yes the old no u, truly compelling. No need to project your self-centeredness on me, I accept your concession.

>>19739536
uh, why?

>>19738912
>OHH NO NOT THE JEWERINOS

>>19739490
>>19739498
Let me clarify. If I were dying I would gladly accept the organ of another person. But never the organ of an animal. And, as I said, I'm 100% sure it will never scientifically work.

If you ask me about organs that are totally identical to mine, like 3D biological prints and stuff like that, I respond that yes, I would take them, but only if I had the guarantee that they're actually identical to mine, like clones. And I'm afraid this is almost impossible.

Anyway, pig's organs is an abomination and even just thinking about it makes me want to puke. The fact that those people talk about it like they were selling you the last smartphone is the unmistakable sign that they're pushing an evil agenda. It's brainwashing in its purest form.

>>19739519
Eating food from hunting is nothing like eating shit bought in stores. It's no different from animals killing each other for food.

>>19739563
Because you believe suffering is a human construct so you shouldn't suffer from it.

>>19739581
If you can avoid killing another being, why wouldn't you?

>>19739527
In some cases. If we want to expand on the free room and board line of thinking we could potentially make the argument that all NEETs are in fact akin to the pigs

>>19739561
viper your brain need help

>>19738477
if they are so smart how come they keep getting killed by humans?

Id sacrifice plenty of animals to cure cancer permanantly if thats what it took.

>>19739590
>akin to the pigs
If the pigs were given a comfortable and decently sized place to stay, food and entertainment then sure, but not many pigs are the animal equivalents of NEETs. I can spend my days reading and listening to music while sunbathing without fearing some faggot will come poke my asshole with an eletric baton or drag me to a room to slit my throat

>>19739600
>he hasn't been swatted by his neighbor for jacking off too loudly
Assholes with electric batons are merely in a different form

>>19739598
Okay but how many humans would you sacrifice?
Because I'm sure that's more in line with what it would actually take

>>19739535
>>19739554
You guys are literal bug people.
The bars are there to prevent the mother from laying on and killing the piglets. Notice the door that the mother has so she can go outside.
Notice the good shape the mother and piglets are in.
There are tons of pictures of animals being abused and you pick the most innocuous one. This is how i know you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>19739598
This additude is rooted in abrahamic presuppositions about life. Humans are quite literally a plague if we don't have a new virus to wipe us out we will wipe ourselves out. If all diseases, cancers and likekind were eradicated we would multiply at a rate which would lead to a collapse as population growth would over come agricultural technology.

I'm glad malaria kills as many as it does and so should you.

>>19739584
Since the anon believes that suffering is a human concept and that only humans can experience it, you suggest that he, a human, should make himself suffer because he won't experience it? What? Do you not understand that it's the other way around? What you should have said is that he should stab an animal and upload it

>>19738452
actually the next step is raising humans specifically for organ harvesting. all livestock management techniques will inevitably be applied to humans

>>19739586
If you can kill yourself, why don't you?

>>19739626
Construct does not equal concept your argument is based around an error.

>>19739616
>Notice the door that the mother has so she can go outside.
That's so nice of them, I'm sure she gets to take refreshing walks regularly and that this door isn't simply used to get her out of there in order to slaughter her. Dumb fuck
And yes, I know the image I picked is far from being the worst I could've picked. And yet it's still terrible to anyone who isn't completely desensitized.
>bro we confined the pigs to a tiny space with metal bars so the atrocious living conditions don't cause the sow to literally crush her children to death
How compassionate kek

>>19739629
Don't wanna make mommy sad.
Why are you deflecting?

>>19739617
>If all diseases, cancers and likekind were eradicated we would multiply at a rate which would lead to a collapse as population growth would over come agricultural technology.
You’re an idiot. Birthdates have fallen far below replacement rates for almost every country outside of Africa, and this is correlated with better healthcare. Malthus was proven wrong so many times, it’s insane that people still buy into this thinking.

>>19739634
Omg ur literally retarded, i'm so sorry there's no cure

>>19739649
I accept your concession.

>>19739647
>Birthdates
Birthrates

>>19739616
We've gotten so good and efficient at making sure baby pigs survive and get nice and fat so we can eat them later
Yep it turns out humans are the good guys after all

>>19739633
He claims that only humans can experience suffering. That only humans can understand they suffer. You want him to prove this by making himself suffer? Anon, think about this real carefully; He has said that he can experience suffering, but animals can't, so why would he make himself suffer when that is exactly what he claims he can? You seem confused

>>19739647
>>19739655
>birthrates are going down so they will always go down
Do you seriously believe that? That birthrates are a constant? You're the idiot you actually believe birthrates are a constant and won't go back up.

>>19739656
>We're not so different, you and I.

>>19739647
I wouldn't necessarily say better healthcare as a whole, rather a shift from subsistence farming to an industrial society where additional kids are a larger financial burden as opposed to a return on investment. This, coupled with a transition to a consumer culture where material objects are valued for social standing is more what's done in the birthrates

>>19739656
see >>19739596

>>19739662
By the same token, you should believe that they won't go back down again

>>19738391
>eating flesh of some retarded suffering animal LE GOOD
>eating flesh of some retarded suffering human LE BAD, LE MORALITY

If abrahamic cuckery hadn't genocided human thought for the last few thousand years we would be eating and torturing our enemies first, the those who do not benefit us from their actions and then the animals the dumb animals.
>bro here's a pig heart
GIVE ME THE HEART OF A CRIMINAL OR SOME PRISONER OF WAR

>>19739674
>justifying killing humans based on intelligence
I agree we should cull those who aren't as smart as the smartest animals. Everyone with a neurological disorder gets culled. Let's do it by intelligence.

>>19739656
Yes? I don’t get this line of argument. They exist to be eaten. Pigs are not people, they are a food source. It makes the same amount of sense to cry about them as it does to mourn the wheat plant or potato which is harvested.

The only reason to limit meat consumption is to help lower carbon emissions. All this moral panic is absurd.

>>19739109
>>19738864
Unironical orthodox Christian from eastern Europe here

I'd never take the pig heart and nobody I know would ever take it, let alone the actual ascetic monks high up in the mountains. There is a certain purity within the human body and shan't be tainted by outside influences. Tattoos, piercings, vaccines, pig hearts readily come to mind.
Any true orthodox christian is not afraid of death. I know a monk who prayed for death and he died last May if I do remember correctly. He was too deathly saddened for this world and one day he suddenly collapsed, dead. Just like that. God took him.
Not a month ago I suddenly, out of nowhere, had a terrible lover affliction. As I was getting closer to liver function collapse, I prayed and was shown by God the reason for why it happened.
Did I become neurotic and stressed out about it? Note that lover function collapse might lead to death. Did I over indulge in medicine and drugs? No, all I did was pray, thank God and assure that I am not afraid of death. Within 1 week the transaminase levels lowered and stabilized and my whole body underwent a sudden cleanse the likes of which I've never experienced. Right now I am healthier and more active than I've ever been, and I've eaten less meat. I still eat bird and fish meat but I never eat pig, ever.

>>19739675
It isn't a constant. It's variable. You would eradicare all diseases and force people in Spain to feed people in India lmao.

>>19738391

> some people don't share my baseless unjustified subjective values
> LoL tHeY mUsT bE rEtArDeD

retard

>>19739662
I do think that birth rates are not going up for a long, long time. Eventually we will reach a stable lower population but that may well be centuries away.

>>19739692
Very very based.

>>19739701
You can't predict the future.

>>19739688

So your argument is that anything that is "not people" exists to be eaten? And you don't get other people's arguments?

>>19739685
>>justifying killing humans based on intelligence
no one did this take your meds

>>19739681
Based and Aztec-pilled

>>19739704
Sure, but one can extrapolate and predict. Why do you think birthrates are going to go up again? Literally the only society where that has happened is Israel and that’s a special case of a very large, very fertile subsection of their populace.

>>19739709
>>19739596

>>19738838
i remember being 16

>>19739716
Look at birthrates and population over a 60 thousand year graph, not 30 years lmfao.

>>19739717
learn to read

Do any animals completely lack pain receptors? Those are the only ones acceptable to eat by moral standards
So oysters I guess

>>19739732
Learn to write.

>>19739685
Yes I agree, good to see you've taken the superman philosophy to its natural conclusion anon.

>>19739696
No I wouldn't

>>19739733
>by moral standards
by moral standards of retards that is

>>19739748
cope

>>19739706
Not just eaten, but they do exist to further society’s aims. Stuff like this organ transplant (which should be cause for celebration, not a backlash), animal products, etc. We don’t care about nature or the Earth for some head-in-the-clouds reason, we care about these things because human society needs resources from the global ecosystem and environmental stability in order to prosper. This sort of debate over the rights of natural resources makes no sense.

>>19739596
If white people are so smart why are they getting replaced by niggers?

>>19739749
keep on seething
>>19739763
>implyin

>>19739766
keep on coping, brainlet

>>19739726
The technologies invented in the last 30 years are so paradigm changing that everything that came before no longer applies. This is true for demographics as well.

>>19739769
>moralcuck retard calling people brainlets
lulz

>>19739772
And there's no way of knowing if the next technological step will reverse it because you can not predict what technology is coming.

>>19739776
ah yeah I remember being 16 too once

Who cares.

>>19739763
Blacks are more evolutionarily fit than Whites. Simple as that.

>>19739692
>I'm sorry but you have cancer
>what's the treatment doc?
>you should pray daily
>see you in a month

>>19739331
Both are torture.
But humans subject other humans to white torture, which in some mindsets and circumstances, could be worse than physical torture.

Both are evil, don't get me wrong. But as humans, we can perceive more evil, than simply bodily harm.
I wager a fish doesn't give a shit it's held in a fish tank, while we use the same treatment for our worst offenders in the form of prisons and solitary confinement.

>>19739800
based?

>>19738654
>>19738665
You people are so fucking dumb. If your addiction to consuming heated animal tissues is so strong that it leads you to believe that grass is sentient and that doesn't make you rethink your position, you're fucking retarded.

>>19739819
yeah but you're a fag so

>>19739795
So do you in fact admit that you deserve, according to your mindset, to be ethnically replaced by niggers, who will spitroast your daughter while pissing on your monuments, and your ashes will be thrown into a dumpster because cemeteries are an impractical waste of space that could be used for Mr. Goldberg's new pool to throw pedo parties in? Do you enjoy the idea that sociopaths will rule the Earth until the end of time, and all your values, including whatever you think has any meaning in your life right now, are fucking stupid because all that matters is le brutal laws of le nature? Because all the enraging shit that is happening right now is just a consequence of this retarded might is right mindset for bugmen that you are too cowardly to apply to anything but animals. You will get fucked by smarter people than you who will use stupider people than you to fuck YOU in the ass, and you deserve every inch of it.

>>19739850
didn't read
stay mad

>>19739860
absolute brainlet cope

>>19739860
Your future generations will live the same life as the cattle you eat today.

>>19739863
>>19739882
your anger and pain brings me great pleasure

>>19739889
keep pretending

>>19739889
So will your daughter to niggers, I'm sure.

>>19739850
>So do you in fact admit that you deserve, according to your mindset, to be ethnically replaced by niggers,
Well, the solution to being evolutionarily unfit is to have kids with an evolutionarily fit woman. There’s a reason my girlfriend is Black.
>who will spitroast your daughter while pissing on your monuments,
You spend too much time on /pol/
>and your ashes will be thrown into a dumpster because cemeteries are an impractical waste of space that could be used for Mr. Goldberg's new pool to throw pedo parties in?
See above. I’m also planning on being cremated anyway, for environmental reasons.
>Do you enjoy the idea that sociopaths will rule the Earth until the end of time, and all your values, including whatever you think has any meaning in your life right now, are fucking stupid because all that matters is le brutal laws of le nature?
To be blunt, if sociopaths win over the world, they deserved it. If they are more evolutionarily fit, they will win, and my values will be forgotten. That’s just reality.
> Because all the enraging shit that is happening right now is just a consequence of this retarded might is right mindset for bugmen that you are too cowardly to apply to anything but animals. You will get fucked by smarter people than you who will use stupider people than you to fuck YOU in the ass, and you deserve every inch of it.
Well, true. There’s a reason I’m trying to be stronger and smarter.

>>19739800
Everything happens for a reason.
If God allows me to have cancer it will be for reasons only he knows, just as He allowed me to be within sight distance of liver function collapse.
Not afraid of cancer and not afraid of death, simple as.

>>19739863
This entire thread is filled with brainlets caught up in extremes

>>19738391
Both TED """scientists""" and the people commenting on the internet should be gassed in death camps.

>>19739912
So should I use prayer as my treatment or what

>>19739900
Nice job applying your ethics and morals to your own personal life. Seems like a pretty rare occurrence today

>>19739900
>There’s a reason I’m trying to be stronger and smarter.
That's why you brag about your alpha morality on 4chan instead of learning how to suck up to the right people and scam those who trust you. You're a fucking retard. You will never win at this game. you have chosen to be a rat in the rat race and you'll die a rat.

>>19739912
Once upon a time, there was a flood. A man was stuck on his rooftop. A boat came by to help, but the man said, “God will help me, go.” Then another boat came, and the man replied in the same manner. Then a helicopter came, and the man said the same thing. Then he drowned.

In heaven, the man asked God, “God, why didn’t you save me?” God said, “I sent you two boats and a helicopter! What more did you want?”

>>19739925
>Nice job applying your ethics and morals to your own personal life
>Seems like a pretty rare occurrence today
>today
What makes you think it was any different 200 or 2000 years ago

Not for as long as they are invited to express butthurt. Deprecate social media, forums, comments sections, imagebroads, and review pages and veganism and other slacktivisms will disappear handily.

>>19739923
Nah, use whatever you want man. I advise you exercise some more faith and confidence, and less of that fear. You're already thinking of treatments while browsing 4chan, if you're so sick as to actively seek for treatments, you could use 10 minutes a day to pray.
If you're not sick and not in need of treatments, then why are you asking me this hypothetical? Fear is very unironically the mind killer.

>>19739955
I just wanted to see if you were the kind of person to think prayer was treatment enough when it comes to afflictions

>>19739912
Have fun dying at 30 and being remembered by nobody.

>>19739937
I didn't say it was any different 200 years ago, but I cannot travel back in time, so I shall deal with the present and future instead

>>19739975
Fair enough

>>19739934
When God sends you help, he also sends you the insight and presence of mind to know when help comes. God won't send you help without you having the necessary discernment to even know what "help" means.
That story is just silly and simply reduces the absolute which is God to some tomfoolery. God doesn't make fun of you, God doesn't play games with you. What he knows you don't, what he hears you can't. What God makes he makes with utmost certainty and reason, the likes of which your mind can't really comprehend without the proper heart to temper.

>>19738794
>It's that causing pain/death on unintelligent non-human entities, even if they're just small critters killed by pesticide, just by being alive is INEVITABLE
two thirds of crops are reserved to feeding animals. you cause more death from pesticides with meat.
because it's inevitable it should be minimized

>>19739990
>God doesn't make fun of you, God doesn't play games with you
You haven't seen the things I've seen. Ever been to Liveleak?

>>19739990
>God doesn't make fun of you, God doesn't play games with you
The creator of this realm can't be anything else than a fucking asshole and no god of mine.

>>19740002
I hope you actually end up in the actual videos you fucking faggot. You always post your fucking gore shit everywhere. It's always you. I know it's you, you're a fucking psychopath who gets off on this shit and will use every excuse to post this shit. You fucking snake.

>>19740031
wot

>>19740038
You're the faggot who posts animal gore all the time. You make these threads to post that shit.

>>19739974
I'm already 30 and I'm healthier than you end I bet I bench more.
But do eat your bugs and transplant your organs with pig organs all while meat is slowly getting banned across the globe. Not that I advocate eating meat, I hardly do anyway and I never eat pork. But just to highlight the hypocrisy.

>>19739990
You idea of God is very different from mine. I don’t think God is rational or an independent actor. God just is, in a pantheistic sense. Whatever happens is the will of God, and so in the story, God had given the man several chances to escape. Even that is a bit off-base, for the man and God aren’t separate entities.

>>19740045
First off, I wasn't referring to fucking animal gore. Second off, there's more than one person on 4chan that has been on Liveleak. Fucking calm down, you psycho

I've seen black people die.

I don't know what's a "critical thinking" but judging from this thread an all the shit I've seen on the internet and the people who are pushing for this shit I don't even want to find out.

>>19738794
Don't see what's the big deal with trying to reduce suffering. It will never be perfect but you don't throw the baby put with the bath water and say that wanton torture and murder are fine because opposing them is "hedonistic"

>>19740002
Is this a contest who saw more gore? I used to get deep into b rekt threads as a morning yoga stretching routine, that should tell you enough. I don't wish upon anyone to see the things I've seen, they have surely left a mark upon my mind (along with other stuff that will scar you on the way to adulthood, or at least internet adulthood).
But precisely because of this, that I became closer to God and he healed my soul and mind. The internet is a sure way to gaze into the abyss, you can get lost in it. That's not the point. Everything happens for a reason and if you've understood enough to undergo a qualitative change of your frame of mind and spirit, you'll see that also.
God doesn't make fun of you. In fact, nobody treats you with as much respect and concern as God. Not even yourself.
But do remember than God gave you free will, and nobody in this universe is as loving as God. The next time something silly happens that makes you think God is playing games with you, ask yourself is that really God's doing or did I do something that downspiraled into this mess?

>>19740104
You lucky bastard.

>>19740149
>Everything happens for a reason

>>19740163
I see my mistake. Sorry.

>>19740163
>he expects a buffer zone affected by the original sin to be the same thing as heaven
>inb4 why bad thing happen
You dropped your fedora kind stranger.

>>19740253
>a buffer zone affected by the original sin
kek, the absolute mental gymnastics nicaeancucks will go through to justify their desert demon's sadism